Disappearing Reappearing Man: What To Do?

Ok, Ladies . . this one’s for you. I see the multitude of comments left by women here under the post titled, “Experiences With A Taurus Male” asking questions such as:

"He was so nice, he started off so strong. Where did he go? What should I do? I text him and he doesn’t respond. I call and he doesn’t answer. Help!”

Standing your ground in the early days of dating is absolutely necessary for your sanity, dignity and relationship perspective. Unless, of course, you prefer to be a co-dependant Polly Anna instead.

Men, just like children, will always test their boundaries with you. It’s just a fact of life. They don't sit around plotting and planning this behavior intentionally. It's psychological, preprogrammed. It's a gift of insight into the female species from good ole' Mother Nature. At its purest form, it's meant to give them the upper hand - so they can succssfully mate, procreate and perpetuate the human species. It's behavior they're not aware of - but utilizing daily.

They're honing these skills from childhood. Very early on young boys learn that the best way to get what they want from the woman in their life, namely mom, is to play on her emotions. And as we speak, some little boy on some playground somewhere is punching the little girl he likes in the arm, running away, laughing.

It is what it is, girls. Accept it.

This is not “games” or manipulation of some sort. You need to remember is this – men do indeed play games. It’s pure instinct. Men are acutely aware of the factors that trigger “attraction.” And if you don’t get a grip and counter these moves that every single man in the world will use on you – then you’re going to become the woman with 17 cats faster than you can say, “Bastard.”

First thing you need to understand, and it’s one factor that men are born understanding, is . . .

The Scarcity Theory Of Value

Scarcity drives competition, particularly in economics, but it also works in dating. No one loves competing for something more than men. This is human behavior/psychology – it just is.

The Law of Scarcity is used in economics daily. Big box stores, marketers and those in the business world understand this. Ever notice during the Holiday season there’s a new game or gadget that’s in scarce supply? But EVERYONE suddenly has to have it? Why is that?

The Answer: Because people always want what they can’t have.

Manufacturers know that they can produce 700,000 of these gadgets for the Holiday season. But they’re not interested in the “get in, get out” method of sales. They want to create a buzz, create a demand – and most importantly – they want people to place a high value on their product. They want people to crave it for months to come – not simply during the month of December.

So what do they do? They dole out the product in scarce supply (and you should do this with sex, too, by the way). Next thing ya' know, people are searching online, hitting 25 stores, standing in line for hours – you get the idea.

And they’re not just doing this in December. Come the month of March, they’re still looking for it and putting energy into acquiring it.

The Reality: People place a high value on something they have to work for.

You want your man to value you, you want him to put energy and effort into the relationship, you want him to puruse you with dignity, it’s what you deserve. Permit this to happen.

Action Steps: When dating, don’t always be available. Don’t respond to texts immediately. Don’t pick up the phone all the time. Don’t return calls immediately. Don’t rearrange your plans to accommodate a man. And never settle for being a booty call. Remain independent, yet flexible, and follow a certain set of "dating rules" for yourself.

The Result: The Scarcity Theory Of Value begins to work. He starts to see you as valuable. He begins to understand that your time is valuable, you are valuable, you are not desperate, and other things and people demand you time as well. His brain begins to subconsciously associate you with being valuable. It's human nature to process the message in that manner, male or female, which is why this law is applied to economics in the marketplace. Use this factor of human behavior to your advantage.

Men instinctively know this. Hell, they use this tactic every single day – on you. So get with the program.

Research Suggests That Uncertainty Heightens Romantic Attraction

It’s a fact, uncertainty creates attraction. Yet another factor that men instinctively know, understand and use to their advantage – DAILY. It goes back to – people want what they can’t have.

Here’s what happens in the human brain. When uncertainty exists, when you can’t have something that you desire . . . you think about it constantly. When your man doesn’t answer a text or ignores a call, you begin to think about him non-stop. What you don’t realize is that all this heavy duty thinking is actually creating more desire for him. He knows that this uncertainty is heightening your attraction for him and there's actual research to back this theory up (PDF).

So now you need to flip the script and use this particular aspect of human behavior to your advantage.

So how do you do that? Take a lesson from him. Play it cool, ladies. In the early days of dating, never let a man know you’re crazy about him. That is, unless you’re looking for the “hit and run” type of situation.

Fact: If you let your man know immediately that you’re falling for him and/or you sleep with him too soon (no sooner than one or two months, ladies), he will immediately move you into the “backup” or “plan B” situation.

Why? Because the thrill is gone and he's already tasted the goods. He now knows he doesn’t have to put another ounce of energy into you. He’s got you right where he wants you – under his thumb. And he now knows he can disappear for days, weeks, months, years. And if he wants you again, if he's bored or other women have rejected him, he'll need an ego boost so he'll be likely to ring you and then, BAM - there you are. Rearranging your schedule, jumping through hoops and giddy that he's contacted you again.

Fact: Once a man has fully “conquered” something, he's apt to lose interest in it. You need to never let him think he's got you or won you over, even if you know he already has.

Action Steps: Never talk about the future in the early days of dating. Never jump through hoops and never let him see you're giddy about what's taking place. Play it cool, just like men do. Hang back, be fun, be spontaneous and be open. But do this on your time and as you see fit. Most likely, he'll poke around with leading statements so he can get a feel for whether or not you're into him.

He'll Say Things Like:

“Maybe someday, we can buy a house together.”
"When we live together someday. . ."
“Maybe someday, I’ll take you here for dinner.”
“I have a weekend getaway planned in August (and it’s May), maybe you can come with me.”

Response: Say something playful and coy like:

“Well, we’ll have to see where it goes. If this works out, maybe yes, someday we can do that. That would be nice.”

What He Hears: His work here is not finished. He senses uncertainty and processes the message that he needs to up the anty here. In otherwords, there's still work to be done and this game is not over.

More Importantly: You're independent, you're different. You make your own choices based on actions, not a bunch of bullshit sweet talk. It's going to take more than the punks game of BS to get you. You're not afraid to walk away or skip over him. You don't let a man pick you, you pick your man.

Men Understand Simple Communication

Emotions are overwhelming to men and confuse the hell out of them. It’s a known fact. Emotions are like work to men, the trouble of wading and sifting through them, attempting to decipher and understand or relate to them, it's a ton of work. It's also a major turn off and it makes the relationship more akin to the job of a therapist as oppossed to something fun and enjoyable.

The Number One Mistake Women Make With Men: They share too much of what they’re thinking and feeling with them. Every little thought, every little fear, every little feeling, every little tear, every little "what if." It's a bit much and to a man, amounts to a ton of drama.

If you need a therapist, by all means, go visit one. But your boyfriend, yea, he's not your therapist. He's not getting paid $150 an hour to listen to all your fears and wade through your emotions and insecurities in the dark recesses of your mind, in an effort to heal you or make you emotionally stable and overall, mentally healthy. Do this with your man and he'll be gone in a flash.

Action Step: Visit a therapist of share these emotions with other women who can relate, such as your girlfriends, sisters or female co-workers. Your man should have no clue what's going on in your head.

This is the one single thing that is most likely to create the “disappearing reappearing” man syndrome, although there are other very real signs he'll disappear. Start sharing your emotions with him and he’ll be gone. Do that and you'll take his interest from level 8 or 9 down to a 2 before you can blink an eye. He'll begin to question everything - including your sanity.

Ever listen in on a bunch of men talking amongst themselves? It basically boils down to this:

a couple of grunts
some high-fives
and some laughs

Simple communication. That’s the name of the game with men. Keep it simple ladies.

Men Understand Action Loud And Clear, Emotion Only Confuses Them

Let’s say you’ve made the above mistake and you've been using your man as a therapist instead of working out your emotions and fears yourself. Let's assume you believe that your happiness is something a man should grant you - and not something you have to grant yourself. Let's say you've been prodding and poking around about his feelings, if he cares for you and where this may lead.

Imagine This: You are driving the car (relationship) and you are now effectively letting fear and insecurity steer the wheel. Now the car (relationship) is veering wildly out of control at a high speed, his passenger door is open and he’s bailing out onto the highway - leaving you to your own demise.

He’s overwhelmed, he’s confused, he doesn't know why or how this happened and because of that, he's gone MIA on your ass. Your actions have spoken loud and clear – and he’s responding.

Don’t worry, we’ve all been there. And this is where it gets interesting, so LISTEN UP, Ladies!

Men Pull Stunts To Gauge Your Feelings And Reassure Themselves

This is the oldest trick in the book and a known fact as to how men reassure themselves. You can expect a man to distance himself and pull back before diving in headfirst and/or right after having sex. So just know this and be prepared for it ladies. Don't panic and go off the rails.

When men feel uncertain and seek reassurance, they don’t do it like women do – by talking about their feelings and emotions over coffee or a bottle of wine all night long. Men seek reassurance by pulling stunts, like making you jealous, making you worry or the the good ole’ disappearing man act.

Ever notice how the punk player laughs, smiles and smirks when his girlfriend goes off into a jealous rage about another woman calling or approaching him? Watch for that, the Billy Idol half smile. Experts in human behavior and body language refer to that tiny half smile as "duping delight." It's a sure sign that he's pleased as punch about the attention he's getting, how important he feels at that moment, and about how much his girl cares for him. Really insecure guys, like players, pull stuff like this all the time to make themselves feel important, wanted and confident.

Because let's face it, if you didn't care, you wouldn't be going off, half-cocked, about the issue.

What To Do When Your Man Disappears: The Rubber Band Theory

When he goes MIA, you do too. You fall off his radar, hell you fall off the face of the earth, and all he hears are crickets chirping in the distance on a silent night.

How That Works: It tells him that you’re okay giving him space and that he's not that incredibly important to you. Being alone is okay with you and besides, there are others out there who want your time as well, so this really isn't a big deal. You have other options and your strong, emotionally.

The Result: He's thinking about you non stop. He’s not getting the reaction he thought he’d get. You're different and he's actually admiring your emotional strength. He's impressed by it. But it's also triggering HIS insecurities. Is there someone else? Is she over me? Why isn't she blowing up my phone?

Once he moves through that thought process, much like a rubber band, he'll spring back towards you. He'll think, "I'd better go check and see what's going on."

This is based on a dating theory called "The Rubber Band Theory" which concludes that this is part of the male intimacy process - getting close, then pulling away to think, remain independent, feel manly and not get too caught up in HIS emotions. Men do this to maintain a nice, healthy balance.

I’m telling you ladies, if you send one text, make one phone call – you’re going to BLOW THIS. He’ll be gone in sixty seconds. He’ll instantly know there is no other man on the scene and his attraction for you will disappear in a flash. You will look emotionally pathetic to him.

Maintain your strength in this situation. One of two things will happen:

He’ll stay gone for good. In which case, you’ve got your answer, no more waiting around for him – and you’ve dodged a bullet here because he wasn’t that into you to begin with. And had you stuck around for more games, grief and pain, more is definitely what you will have received.
He’ll suddenly reappear. He’ll have had time to think, he’ll have had plenty of space and the rubber band effect will kick in – and he'll come around to seek you out. He'll mis you and that's what you want him to do.

In psychology, there are two kinds of love, passionate and companionate. And passionate love is defined as an intense longing for union with another individual (PDF).

Men and women both tend to equate longing with love and many scientists and anthropologists believe it to be a cultural universal, ladies - worldwide.

What To Do When Your Man Reappears: Behavioral Mirroring

If he’s gone, good riddance. He wasn’t into you anyway and/or he’s insecure. If he reappears, you get a second chance, girls, so don't blow it. You flip the switch and work your voodoo magic on his ass. You take control and you move things forward in your way and on your time and at your pace, not his.

He’s just revealed to you that YOU now have HIM. Gotcha little bastard – game on. (And remember, he started all this by making himself scarce, by not answering texts, and acting like he doesn't care. You don't want to play this game, but they insist on it – so here you are, game face on.)

Reminds me of a popular saying, "If you're going to play the game, I'll be the coach."

When your man suddenly reappears you have two options:

1.) Ask yourself if he’s worth it. What are the chances he'd do this again? Is there a history of this behavior? If so, he's a flake, not worth it.
2.) Act accordingly based on that decision.

If he’s worth it, here’s what you do when he suddenly reappears:

Action Step: Don’t answer that text or return that call for two or three days. Yes, three days, girls, this is important. You're taking a stance and you don't budge on that or he'll call you on that, he'll sense hesitation and weakness, and he'll take control again. Simply use another psychological tactic called mirroring and mirror his behavior. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander and all is fair in love and war.

What He Hears: This poor treatment is not something you'll overlook. You won't go off the rails about it, but you're no dummy either and now he knows this. You have a life and you're going to live it, with or without him. You know the meaning of consequence and bad behavior doesn't earn your attention. Bad behavior earns consequences, those of which you're not afraid to dole out, and you will hold him accountable for his actions. You will not reward him for them.

There's a great old saying I love, "Never treat someone like your priority while they're treating you like their option."

Action Step: Make your response friendly, casual and keep it carefree. In otherwords, you could care less and these little pranks mean nothing to you.

If you get the proverbial, “Hey” text or some sorry ass excuse for where the hell he’s been for a month (he was abducted by aliens) then three days later, you simply ignore the excuse he provided and say:

“Hey what’s up? It was nice to hear from you, I hope things are going well. I’ve been so busy lately, we’ll have to get together sometime soon. Have a great day, talk to ya’ later!”

What He Hears: You’re still there but now you're farther apart. Remember the rubber band theory, ladies. Men like a little bit of tension, it's exciting and makes them curious. Treating you like this will not be the way to your heart and does not make you want to spend time with him. He knows what he did was wrong, you don't have to tell him. So now, he's a bit confused and you have the uncertainty factor of human behavior working to your advantage. And remember, uncertainty creates romantic attraction.

If he disappears for good, he was an insecure guy who was beat at his own game. What up now, player? And the last thing on earth you want to date is an insecure guy who is a player, so be gone fool.

Insecure guys are a bit different concerning this prank – they do it just to prove they can get a girl to jump. They don’t even have to like her. Deep down, they don’t feel like a man. Making a woman jump makes them feel manly. You don’t need a guy who is out to prove something to himself. Period. You want a man, not an insecure little boy who plays games to feel like a man.

Just give it some time. He’ll think about this and if he’s a real man and he genuinely likes you, he’ll be back. Nagging and chasing is what he expects. You not caring and blowing him off is not what he expects. Don't let him push your buttons, push his and throw him for a loop.

Shake Things Up And Blow Them Off: The Push Pull Method

Ever notice that the men you ignore are generally the one’s blowing up your phone? Why is that, you ask? Because you could care less about them and this kicks in a natural human behavior tendency to prove themselves to you, to win you over, to beat out other men, and claim the prize. So they start vying for your attention and going to great lengths to get it.

There's a dating principal that many refer to as "The Push Pull Method." And it works boths ways, on men and women, in most cases. It's a way to be interesting and fun without being too nice or too mean.

I’ll keep this section simple. Playing it safe is boring. A man needs to be unable to predict your next move if he's to find you intriquing. So start to shake things up a bit by creating some tension, pulling back on that rubber band a bit - and hold tight for him to spring back at you.

Men Are Competitive and Love To Chase

For women, the end result is what’s exciting, the future. For men, it’s the opposite, it’s the journey that’s thrilling to them, the here and now.

Men like to hunt. It plays on their natural, psychological tendency to enjoy competition. Permit yourself to become the prey and let them hunt you. Remember, it's also part of the human psychological condition to place a higher value on something you have to work for and in the modern day marketplace, it's being used everyday.

There's a great line in the movie, "The Break-Up." When Vince Vaughn and his buddy go into a nightclub, they say, "Let's seperate the weak ones from the pack." Clearly they were on the hunt.

Ladies, you’re the prey. He’s the hunter. Now run!

Dating, Mating And Male Insights

Men must feel that you're choosy, not needy.

Men don't want to be your therapist.

Give him plenty of space, pull back on that rubber band and he'll spring back at you.

Men tend to disrespect a woman who is too nice.

Men see nagging as emotional weakness.

A little distance along with some apathy pulls on that rubber band.

If he can predict your every reaction, you'll bore him to death.

Sleeping with a guy too soon takes all the fun of it for him. If you throw yourself at him, his reaction will be, "Meh."

Your sexuality is your power. The sooner you give it away, the sooner he'll leave.

Sleep with him too soon (before a month or two) and he'll view you as an object. Make him work for it and he'll notice you as a woman.

Not sleeping with him in the first month or two gives you time to find out who he really is and will save you lots of tears later on.

Nice girls, much like nice guys, finish last.

Don't Become Road Kill

Don't let yourself and your emotions get run over like road kill. Look out for yourself, voice your opinions, don't be afraid to say no or turn down mediocre offers, and take things at your own pace while enjoying your own lifestyle in the midst of it.

If you look out for yourself in this manner, you will attract someone who will do the same for you.

Additional Food For Thought

Is he into you? Check out "He Is Not Into You: Relationship Red Flags"

Are you dating a player? Check out "What Is A Player: Signs You're Dating A Player"

Dealing With The Aftermath? Check out "Men Disappear and Reappear: The Aftermath"

Questioning Yourself? Check out "Dating: What Does It Mean When He. . ."

Feeling Powerless? Check out "Women And Relationships: Reclaiming Your Power."

Is he blaming you? Check out "What Is Nagging And Shifting Blame?"

Source Books and Recommended Reading

Amazon.com Widgets

"The Rules: Time-Tested Secrets for Capturing the Heart of Mr. Right" by Ellen Fein and Sherrie Schneider

"Mars and Venus On A Date" by John Gray, Ph.D.

"Why Men Love Bitches" by Sherry Argov

"The Manual" by Steve Santagati

"Date Like A Man" by Myreah Moore and Jodie Gould

"How To Make Anyone Fall In Love With You" by Leil Lowndes

"How To Date Men" by Janis Spindel

Still Don't Believe This Is A Game Being Run On You Daily?

Do me a favor and Google "ignore her" on the Internet. You'll see what these little sneaks are up to:

"Mind Games Men Like Playing On Women" (THIS IS A MUST READ, WRITTEN BY A MAN AND STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH, LADIES)

"Why Nice Guys Ignore The Girl They Like"

"How To Raise An Interest Level: Ignore Her!"

"Get Out Of The Friend Zone By Ignoring Her"

"Why Ignoring Her Will Make Her Beg You To Take Her Back."

And there you have it. This is what they're up to. Now flip the script.

* * * * *

Comments, Personal Views, Personal Stories, Advice, Suggestions and Discussion on This Site by The Community of Mirror of Aphrodite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

UPDATE 11/18/2014: WE'VE HIT THE COMMENT LIMIT ON THIS POST LADIES. THE SYSTEM HAS REACHED IT'S 5,000 COMMENT LIMIT AND WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR POST. PLEASE VISIT "DATING A DISAPPEARING MAN, REACHED YOUR LIMIT?" TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION. THANKS SO MUCH GALS, IT'S BEEN A REAL RIDE - AND THIS IS QUITE A MILESTONE!!

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Anonymous said...: @ Lady Leo-

Don't you think maybe you are putting a little too much stock in the fact that he is a 12 stepper?

From what you described in your posts, his actions never matched his words. It was too much too soon and none of it came to fruition.

"Burning desire" may not be manipulative when used in the certain contexts but in this context, I think it comes off a little fake and manipulative.

Just my two cents :); July 16, 2013 at 7:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror @Anonymous July 16, 6:59PM here,

I'm totally confused as to what I'm supposed to be doing here

'Men online come and go, then come an go again and again. It's the name of the game there, which is why it needs to be observed as socializing only until you meet someone worthy.'

'Besides, once he's made it through his rotation and checked out whatever has distracted him, he'll probably be back. It may sound harsh, but that's the reality of online dating. You CANNOT take it seriously in the very early stages at all - socializing, just socializing'.

I understanding that it's good to look at the on-line dating that it's just socialising and that it's different to normal dating but I'm totally confused with this one because you still need to be filtering men etc. so in a sense it's no different and some of the experiences I'm having, guys arsing around and yes they may have others on the go because it is on-line dating after all but are you saying that I should accept that as a fact of on-line dating because it seems at bit contradictory because how am I going to filter and judge a man worthy and protect myself if I adopt the attitude it's just social and normal to be put on a rotation.

So in a sense it can't be viewed as just socialising because you still have to look after yourself and think is this person suitable to get involved with and I mean meeting for a drink by that but it's still with a view to dating which involves whether this person is potentially date worthy so I don't think it's as clear cut to view this as just social as it's not. As people are on there to date (and I'm sure many of them say they are but they're not).

Also, if you're saying it's normal to be put on a rotation, is it acceptable though because it wouldn't be in the real world. I do realise that people are on there to go on lots of dates with different people including myself but I still have to look out for myself and protect and how do you do this if you accept the rotation behaviour and disappearing. Filtering screening needs to begin before getting on a date so I don't see how it can be seen as just socialising.

Here's a comment from a guy's profile:

Men lie. They see lying as just bait. Fishing is predominantly a male pastime. Go down to the canal on any given Sunday and there will be lots of men fishing. Usually, only men. Maybe it's a primeval need, but they like to work alone, luring fish with bait and having landed the fish, put it back and continue fishing. Just saying... :)

I would say that's a realistic male's inside viewpoint of what goes on for a lot of males on there.

So when you say that:
'Men online come and go, then come an go again and again. It's the name of the game there, which is why it needs to be observed as socializing only until you meet someone worthy.'

I don't believe you can observe it as just socialising and determining whether someone is at least date worthy (to the best your ability with on-line communication) needs to be done before you decide to even meet them. I need to take it seriously because I don't want to be messed about anymore and get my fingers burnt again, so the early stages are very important here for me getting that right and I can't afford to take it lightly especially given what that bloke had to say!

Very confused :(; July 17, 2013 at 4:02 AM
Lady Leo said...: @ Anon July 16, 2013 at 7:52 PM

I don't know if you've read everything I've written for the last month about this man. His actions always matched his words, until this last event on Sat. He is the most consistent, responsible and respectful man I have ever dated.

In my last email to him I asked him not to reply as we needed to cut contact, unless he had a "burning desire" to respond. This is our language, so to answer your question: no, I do not place too much emphasis on our 12 step world.

Thanks for your comment and support.; July 17, 2013 at 8:54 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 17, 4:02PM,
"you saying that I should accept that as a fact of on-line dating because it seems at bit contradictory because how am I going to filter and judge a man worthy and protect myself if I adopt the attitude it's just social and normal to be put on a rotation."

My point is that you're taking it way too seriously.

"how am I going to filter and judge a man worthy"

You email several times first, then you talk on the phone several times first, then you go on a date. If he's a gentleman, you continue to do so. If he isn't, then you walk away. And the entire time you're "filtering" him in this manner and observing his behavior and speech, you DO NOT look at him as if he's a man to have a relationship with - you look at it as if you're getting to know him, and socializing.

"and protect myself"

You are protecting yourself by making him work to see you and prove himself genuinely interested by his continual pursuit through repeated emails, phone calls and dates. While doing so, you do not consider this a relationship, you do not look at him as a potential boyfriend and you do NOT sleep with him. You get to know him, you observe his behavior and you socialize with him in a friendly, casual manner.

"it's just social and normal to be put on a rotation."

It is just social, all dating should be social (not fast tracked into the bedroom and a relationship) and when dating online, it doesn't matter if you're in a "rotation" of sort when approaching it socially because - you're not sleeping with him (or at least you shouldn't be in an attempt to jump right into a relationship).

So while he's casually dating others, you casually date others as well - that's how it works. And you talk on the phone to many and you email many and you go out on dates with many - but YOU SLEEP WITH NONE (which is how you protect yourself, by not taking it seriously at first and not getting involved in over your head).

If this goes on for a couple of months and the man seems genuinely interested and he attempts to advance the relationship, pick up the pace and/or ask for a commitment - THEN you cease casually dating others and you enter into a committed relationship with him, at which point you can THEN sleep with him and take it seriously.

"I can't afford to take it lightly especially given what that bloke had to say!"

That's exactly the reason you should take it lightly. If you take every single man you meet online seriously as a potential boyfriend - they're all going to fast track you into the bedroom and then potentially disappear.

Cont. . .; July 17, 2013 at 9:12 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: So instead, I suggest NOT taking them seriously until you've had several email conversations, several phone calls in advance of a date and several dates - FIRST. That's the "filtering" process and during that process, you observe.

If he's been filtered during that process and deemed a man that's worthy - THEN you take him seriously as relationship potential. You should only be taking a man into consideration as serious relationship potential AFTER he's proved himself to you, not before.

The process is:

1) Emailing several times
2) Talking on the phone several times(not texting)
3) Dating and meeting in person several times
4) Decision time

Because when dating online, you'll come across a lot of this:

1) one email
2) no phone call, maybe some texting
3) one date (where he attempts to sleep with you and lead you to believe he wants a serious relationship
4) only to find that you took him seriously at his word way too soon and he slept with you and then moved on

Or, the alternative to number 4 is:

4) only to find that there is never a second date

You will have MANY first dates online - but very FEW second, third and fourth ones. So if you take every man seriously from day one as having relationship potential WITHOUT going through the filtering process FIRST - you're going to find yourself confused, exhausted and discouraged.

But if you approach it as socializing, go through the filtering process and make a man PROVE himself as genuinely interested - THEN you save yourself that exhaustion. So that if there is no second date or he turns out to be a jerk after the filtering process uncovers this, you're not left wounded and disappointed because the high expectations weren't met.; July 17, 2013 at 9:12 AM
KK said...: So something happened the other night with Pisces..
But first, during the weekend I had a nice talk with a family member (male) about all of this 'stuff' lately including the posts I saw before and then how things just disappeared. His words were "He got scared, it was too much, too soon for him, it overwhelmed him when this other woman started doing this right away, he's not into it" - my thoughts as well, he only verified it. And Pisces obviously had that 'gut reaction' or 'gut feeling'. A few more things popped up Monday night, she adds to his profile almost everyday with over the top affection, and he doesn't really reciprocate or even initiate - she's leading. And while with me, he was the leader (for the most part regarding plans, communication, affection, etc, up until 'that' point) He fed her a 'beautiful' line - something he used to call me. And then actually put a picture up of her at his place with one his dogs (like a souvenir/trophy or something)- There isn't any of me, we just never really 'had' to do that. She commented on it soon thereafter and said something along the lines of "Can't wait til next time, I miss my ***** & ******" (the dogs) but she used the word 'my' - like somehow they are hers now? trying to be 'cutesy', maybe appealing to him on some level, but yet kind of possessive now and still 'too much'. A complete opposite of whatever I did and coming back to him tenfold. His ACTIONS spoke loud and clear last week when he removed that stuff. She didn't get the message though and is still acting like an 'instant girlfriend'.

We did speak that same night, first by text - regarding the 'disappointment' and 'left out' feeling I have. Things got a little heated but then he called me, something he hasn't done in months. It was on!

I explained and tell him 'I can obviously see this on fb you know, you make it obvious, you put it out there, it's not like i'm accusing you or being fed bs from someone else, you're feeding it to me yourself' 'She just seems a little too much, too soon, seems pretty 'new' and shes already smothering you, being clingy and needy - you bitched about that with me MONTHS into it after I initiated a 'talk' - I know you don't like that, nobody does, she's becoming obsessive I find, so I just wanted to warn you in a way, but at the same time, you weren't really up front with me if you wanted to see someone else either, I'm totally left out, but I caught you in your excuses and your lies when you say you're so busy and working all the time - yet finding the time to spend with her and making it obvious - and you say she's nice - well I was nice at one point too wasn't I, and I know what that means, it means 'nice' girls put out. I was totally calm when saying it too. Matter of fact like.

This other stuff had to come up, it's part of it, but not all of it (and led a little into the real problem/issue), it rests mainly on HIM and what he's doing (actions).

He told me he's been texting her for about a month, before he even added her to FB (2 wks ago), they were hanging out, etc. - (I see right through this and know exactly what's going on) I blurted out 'player' somewhere and he snapped back 'I'm not a player, I can hang out with WHOEVER I want' - Yeah sure, you can, you're free to do as you wish since there's no commitment with me, it's WHAT you do with the other person that makes you a player though (lazy dates, her doing all the work and becoming 'undone', using her for sex and leading her on to believe she can have 'more' with you) Instead of being honest and up front, you hurt people and hurt yourself in a way.; July 17, 2013 at 9:34 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lady Leo,
I realize that the 12 step world is a close knit community and I also realize that you're using more than that to "filter" this new man. However, I'd just like you to observe the fact that not all 12 steppers have gotten their morals and ethics under control and manipulation and predatory behavior still takes place in that world as well - via the "13th step."

So as much as many of those folks are working on themselves and attempting to improve their lifestyle - it still must be noted that they are human too and they are involved in their own personal struggles and, as a result, not all of them will automatically have good intentions and/or know their way (i.e. be able to instantly remove themselves from the manipulative tactics that they used during their addiction to get away with it).

While this man may have good intentions, he may also be struggling with changing his old behaviors and, as a result, he may resort back to manipulation at times. It's a possibility in that world just as much as anywhere else and maybe even more so there due to the fact that many 12 steppers are highly skilled in manipulative tactics that were necessary to develop to hide and/or get away with their addiction.

So all I'm saying is, keep an open mind because it's possible he's resorting back to manipulation here at times, particularly as a result of insecurity.

So just bear that in mind and continue doing what you've done, which is pulled back. Because your filtering process over the last month has uncovered his potential to be wishy-washy-, indecisive, move too fast and has identified that he IS capable of saying one thing, but doing another.

So while he may have started off consistent and genuine, 4 weeks into it, he did reveal some "true self" and his capabilities to be less than a man of his word, regardless of the reasons why - which means you need to pull back and protect yourself from that, as you have done, to see if he's as genuinely interested as he claims to be :-); July 17, 2013 at 9:38 AM
KK said...: He turned the tables and got off the topic of 'her' and wanted to talk about me and him. He started saying 'we were fuck buddies, I thought u knew that' - I snapped back right away and said 'oh really, thats what you thought? thats nice of you, when I first met you, you never said that's what you wanted or were after, we were getting to know eachother and just talking, then yes we slept together, which we shouldn't have that soon, I regret that now - you kept coming around and not just for sex, we got close, we were 'seeing' eachother, your parents knew about me, you met my mom, we made plans every wknd, I liked you and you liked me - we shared a lot, I was there thru a lot of shit, and you have the nerve to say we were just fuck buddies?' - I was firm but still calm too oddly enough.

He got a lil quiet.. then went into a more serious 'mood' - started saying "yeah, we were friends" - in a kinda sad tone. So I repeated him and said yea, we 'were'- meaning we're not anymore?. He says next "Well you seem to have moved on - we don't talk, I don't really hear from you' 'I see some stuff on your fb too, a pic of you and some guy kissing, you saying you're in love with someone'

1) 'Moved on' from what exactly - what is he really implying? - He said another time 'You told me you were over it so I left you alone'
2) The not talking and not hearing from me - obviously bothers him, but he doesn't understand he's the reason why I don't talk to him! He pissed me off or upset me somehow.. but he notices the 'absence' or 'difference'.
3) The pic he was referring to was taken back in Oct - before I met him, I found it months later and put it up cuz I think it's funny, the guy was crazy and we were having fun, I was happy. I never really kissed him and nothing ever happened, it was all a 'ruse' for the camera. - Competition obviously bothers him and gets him going.
4) I'm 'in love' with a certain musician/celebrity and posted something about him - will never really happen! But fish here is jumping to conclusions and getting sensitive. Cute.
I laughed at him when he said those things and told him he was funny, he was kinda giggling too - like trying to hide those real feelings he just revealed to me. I got a little quiet and thought to myself 'He can be all bothered and jealous but when I get like that, its not allowed?'.

Our mutual friends came up in the conversation and I told him I haven't talked to either of them for about 4 months now and 'I don't need people like that around me'. He was stunned. He did fill me in on what is going on with those two - bigger, more serious problems and we have always both agreed on the same thing - they're just not good for eachother and things will never change or be different for them.; July 17, 2013 at 10:32 AM
KK said...: It got quiet again and he said he needed to get to bed (it was late and he woke up to have that conversation with me), he didn't feel like talking or continuing to talk about this right now and mentioned something - don't remember exactly, but something about tomorrow night or another time. I was understanding and know he needs his rest, I didn't try to continue. He wished me a goodnight, I couldn't say the same to him, I remember just saying 'yeah..'
The awkward silences and tones of sadness and 'emotion' from him (even though it was subtle and somewhat hidden for a while) was enough. My intuition was right when I thought and said 'maybe he feels how I feel' - left out, like I am/was over him, 'playing games', acting funny.. he noticed something different. He looks at my stuff, he does get curious, etc. He just has a hard time being clear about what's going on in his head and what he does really feel, but it does eventually come out. I feel that there are 'deeper' things going on that need to come out so we can hopefully work on them, talk about them, get better, not be cold and distant and not nice to eachother - I don't want a relationship (commitment wise) with him and not right now, not after he kinda betrayed my trust, ignored me, and hurt me. Who would want to be with someone like that?
He and 'we' have to start from scratch now, there's no other way. I miss the 'friend' I did have, I just want that interest back, the 'close' feeling, being with him and talking to him, having fun and laughing with him and feeling good again, he felt good with me at one point. I don't want to be left out and left wondering and ignored, I miss the real him, the nice him, the caring, sweet, funny guy I used to know. That's it. I think that's why I liked him so much, we got close and we're kind of best friends too (we gradually built 'something', even if he can't admit it) We just 'got' eachother.

I'm trying to see things from his side too, not my own, but I can't get the full view right now to try to understand him (very sensitive and emotional too) if he won't communicate and be direct with me.
I know he may need some time to get comfortable again with sharing. I want to be understanding about it and not push him for answers. I feel he was on the edge of revealing more but it just wasn't the right time.
There really wasn't a specific set time. Whenever he's good and ready I guess or do you casually ask at some point? - but that would amount to pressure, so nevermind :)
I'm not going to get mad about it, I'm gonna give him his space until he feels ready to talk. Let it all absorb maybe and breathe a little.

Would love your thoughts on this Mirror. Anything you could add or 'decode' somehow would be great.

Thanks again.; July 17, 2013 at 10:37 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @KK,
Well, the biggie here. . .is that this called you a "F buddy" right to your face. Very disrespectful, very hurtful and very insensitive. For that alone, he should receive some harsh NC. Me personally, I would never proceed with a man after he tells me I'm nothing but shit to him like that. And I don't buy any of his confusion or him playing coy, that's simply him backtracking when you call him on his shit.

Any man that views you as a F buddy, doesn't deserve one ounce of your sympathy, empathy or benefit of the doubt - disrespect deserves a zero tolerance policy - under no conditions, regardless of the excuse provided, should it be tolerated. I'd have walked away or hung up right after that one - and left him to live what what he had said/done there - left him with guilt.

And if you give a man who views you as an F buddy any slack or benefit of doubt - he WILL use that against you in manipulative ways in the future (because he'll view your acceptance of it, you maintaining contact and being available to him, as "acceptance" of the poor, disrespectful treatment and ultimately deem you as emotionally weaker - and he'll play on your emotions for sympathy in the future to overlook more disrespect from him).

And him implying that you've "moved on" from being a F buddy is ridiculous. You don't move on from that because there's nothing to move on from - you can't lose a relationship that you don't have in the first place and that never existed. In his eyes, this was nothing more than a fling - and those shouldn't be expected to last long at all as they're generally brief "flings."

"he doesn't understand he's the reason why I don't talk to him"

I disagree. I think he KNOWS FULL WELL what he's doing here - which is manipulating you emotionally. And frankly, the F buddy insult strikes me as a "neg" (throwing a negative comment or insult at a woman to bring her insecurities to the surface) - one of the pick up artist and player tactics out there:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html

"He just has a hard time being clear about what's going on in his head and what he does really feel"

Again, I tend to disagree with that and I view it as emotional manipulation - he wants CHASED, he wants YOU to do the WORK here and he's using manipulative tactics to play on your insecurities and emotions to get you to do that.

"I feel that there are 'deeper' things going on that need to come out"

Cat's already out of the bag here - he's insecure. And insecure men don't make good boyfriends, lovers or husbands because - they do shit like this and play games and manipulate people in order to make themselves feel better and in control.

"after he kinda betrayed my trust"

Kinda? He was downright disrespectful dear and informed you that you were nothing short of a F buddy to him - that's not kinda, that's HUGE.

"He and 'we' have to start from scratch now, there's no other way."

After that comment from him and the downright display of disrespect - I'm not even sure that should be an option. Because if he views you as nothing more than a F buddy, there's little chance he'll suddenly develop respect and view you differently unfortunately. If he were a more mature man, yea that'd be possible. But clearly, he's an immature, insecure guy and with them - change rarely ever happens because - it needs to begin WITHIN HIM - and has NOTHING to do with YOU.

Cont. . .; July 17, 2013 at 3:25 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "I miss the real him, the nice him, the caring, sweet, funny guy I used to know."

That was an illusion dear. That was not the "real" him he was showing you - because he just informed you that the "real him" viewed you as nothing more than a F buddy :-(

"we're kind of best friends too"

I'm not sure he sees it that way. I think he sees you two as "buddies."

"we gradually built 'something', even if he can't admit it"

Don't assume that dear because his ACTIONS are not in line with that assumption.

"I can't get the full view right now to try to understand him (very sensitive and emotional too) if he won't communicate and be direct with me."

He doesn't deserve an ounce of your time or attention right now - or possibly ever.

"Whenever he's good and ready I guess or do you casually ask at some point?"

I would NEVER "work" at this with a man like that and that thinks of you like he does - EVER. He'd have to hound me for MONTHS to get me to even respond ONCE after he shared his true view of me like he did.

BE VERY CAREFUL HERE DEAR - I think you deserve MUCH MUCH BETTER than this and MUCH MUCH better than what a guy like this can EVER offer you.

You need to put your time and attention on a man that values you, knows your worth as a woman, encourages you to succeed, supports you and RESPECTS YOU - and you shouldn't settle for one single ounce less than that dear.

I've heard a lot of disrespectful things fly out of men's mouths but seriously - calling a woman a F buddy to her face - astonishing.; July 17, 2013 at 3:25 PM
Anonymous said...: @KK

I´ve been reading all the posts here including yours and have observed one common pattern. The women analyse too much when problems arise with their boyfriends. I used to do a lot of it too in the past but now I am doing my best to "unlearn" this bad habit. Because when you are analysing, you are taking over all the responsibility for the relationship. The man doesn´t necesarily have to know it consciously, but he feels that the burden of taking care of the relationship or a problem with it is on your shoulders and he can get away with his inappropriate behaviour or indifference.

So if I may contribute my opinion, in your place I would immediately stopped analysing the situation, what he said and what he didn´t,what he meant by this or that, how he was feeling when he was saying that, etc., and focus entirely on meeting new men. You have already started dating as I have read, so don´t allow the reappearance of your boyfriend to distract you from this intention. Focus on new men and let your boyfriend be alone, thinking for himself.Thus he will be forced to shoulder his part of the responsibility for the relationship with you or any problems that arose. He will be back anyway.

I came to this blog having problems with one man, a player. I was analysing his behaviour for days. Fortunately, Mirror helped me to see him in true light so I didn´t spend too much time thinking about him. Since our break up he has contacted me several times. Mirror is right, they always return. I don´t think about him anymore. When he calls, I answer the phone, listen to him and do and say what I feel without any analysing of what he really wants, means, etc. The situation has reversed, now it´s him who is thinking why I am responding the way I am, why I am not giving him another chance, etc. The fact is I am not interested in him anymore, but what I want to say by this is that if women could detach themselves emotionally from their men at least a little while they still care about him, the men would definitely feel it, think about it and act accordingly. That´s why "bitches" are generally more successful with men - they don´t care so much and the man feels it and takes responsibility for his part of the relationship, which is then healthier.

I wish everybody the very best.
Hopeful...; July 17, 2013 at 4:35 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @HopefulWithMen,
I'm so proud of you dear - you've come such a long way - done a complete 180 in your mindset and it has served you well and provided you with peace of mind, self-worth and confidence - and it shows.

And now, you have the player chasing you ;-) Isn't it wonderful and empowering to be on the other end of that spectrum? Not nasty, but rather, simply in control. .of yourself.

As they say, BITCH stands for:

Babe In Total Control (of) Herself

And what you say is spot on. When women bear the brunt and all of the "work" and "worry" for the men, to keep the relationship afloat - men instinctually SENSE that - and many abuse it.

They sense you'll give them the benefit of doubt, they sense that you're letting your emotions guide you and not your head (logic), they sense that there's an advantage for them in that, they sense how far out the boundaries you've set are, they sense what that permits them to get away with and they sense that because of all of the above - there's a very high likelihood that they can get away with a certain amount of bad behavior as a result.

Basically, they sense that you can be easily taken advantage of and that taking you for granted basically creates no consequences of real concern. So what if you don't speak to them for a week or a few days? That just gives them more free time to run off and do as they please. It's no real consequence to experience and it doesn't bring them pain, anxiety or worry as many women erroneously believe. They don't lose sleep over that like a woman does because they've "got your number" and they know that all they have to do to get back into your good graces is - dial you up once or twice, LOL.

Trust in yourselves ladies. Trust in your worth, trust in your value as a woman, trust in your instincts, trust in your gut - TRUST IN YOURSELF and you WILL find success :-)

You are all much more valuable than many of these men would lead you to believe and there's a reason that they want you to think less of yourself in that respect - because it works to THEIR advantage if you feel insignificant. Because when you feel insignificant, you TRY HARDER to "fix" things and prove your worth to them.

Turn those tables ladies - and as Hopeful has said, place their fair share of the relationship responsibility square on their shoulders - and then walk.

After you get a mile or so away, stop and take a peek behind your shoulder. You'll see that many of these men are following you. . .hiding behind Facebook accounts and cellphones - peeking around the corner at you ;-); July 17, 2013 at 4:57 PM
KK said...: @Mirror and Hopeful,

Thanks to you both, I'm with you on everything. Although I am very hurt and sad right now, the past few days have been rough. I've allowed myself to be upset for a while but I won't be for long, I know that. I've already made my plans for this weekend and have found things to occupy my time and energy, with people who appreciate me. I received another message from the Taurus I'm talking to right after the conversation w/Pisces. He made me laugh and smile - and he doesn't even know it.
I am letting him be alone now to think about this/and for himself. If I have to walk through fire, so should he. Since I found this in April and started implementing these changes, I do feel and see that tables have turned, the 'techniques' do work - I made him curious instead, I made him wonder (and he inquired about it, got jealous, etc), I wasn't fully available - everything. Learning to be a bitch, pulling back, and most important I think, observing his actions - they tell the whole story. And his actions definitely don't line up with or match his words.
I know it has nothing to do with me, but instead has everything to do with HIM - this is HIS problem.
"And him implying that you've "moved on" from being a F buddy is ridiculous." - LOL yea, everybody who knows about this thinks that too. He rejected me, he didn't want me, he said he wasn't ready, there was no commitment - so then when I deliver a consequence, he gets bothered, jealous, etc. - Say or do something about it then if you don't really like it, or don't want me with anyone else, claim your prize! And if you can't, obviously somebody else will. (Competition, his interest ramped up)
He contradicted himself basically in what he said, tried to control and cover up the truth (I'm being careful with that aspect, whether it was true/genuine, or just another part of the 'game') - I still believe we were 'more' and still think he knows that as well. But again - he's just hiding behind his insecurity. (wherever the hell it comes from).
Why is it so hard to just come out with it and say it, be clear, be open with whatever you have to say or in his case, is trying to say. That's where being the leader, and taking charge and going for what you want is important to us women, we aren't attracted to wimpy men.; July 19, 2013 at 11:12 AM
KK said...: I keep re-reading your articles too, I'm learning a lot about men in general and about myself. And since I'm observing the interactions with him and that other woman - let's be honest, she's his current 'F buddy'. When talking about her, he even said "hanging out" - you know what that means. 'He wants CHASED, he wants YOU to do the WORK' - that's exactly what she's doing. But is it what he REALLY wants, not at all. Goes along with everything here - masculine energy, pressure, etc. I said it before, it's almost self-inflicted and coming back on him quicker and stronger. He told me they've been talking and hanging out for a month and this is already happening? - When it happened with him and I, it was 3 months into it and after he behaved a certain way obviously and after his friend got involved too. Everything else was fine. So now I'm just noticing a huge difference between her and I. I'm sure he will too and then he'll think to himself "Wow, KK wasn't that bad afterall, I made a huge mistake".
I won't be waiting around, I won't be running back to him. It will take a lot for him to ever get me back. Yes, he will have to work, try harder, prove HIMSELF and do that with his ACTIONS, not his words. And even with all of that, it will still take much more.
Mirror, I actually copied your comment about disrespect and added a little to it and posted it to my FB - rings true with me and has in the past as well. I don't care if he can see it and would actually be glad if he did and assumed or knew it had to do with him too. It related to our mutual friends at least and how I have cut them out of my life, probably for good, he knows of this now since telling him that night on the phone - and in a way, by my attitude and the way I talked about it was almost a prelude of what could come next/a warning to him about our 'relationship'. When I posted what I did, it only cemented it:
Disrespect deserves a zero tolerance policy - under no conditions, regardless of the excuse/lame apology provided, should it be tolerated. That's when you walk! - Simple as that. Funny thing is, the people who have been disrespected the most, seem to dish it out even more onto others who don't even deserve it and then wonder why they're all alone. Keep walking, they can struggle on their own to rebuild the bridge they burned.
I added lame apology to it because of this one mutual friend, his friend. Even after he tried to apologize to me for what he said, I still wouldn't accept it or take his calls or reply to his messages, it was that bad.
Pisces can relate to being disrespected by numerous people and then doing the same and kicking them to the curb - but don't be surprised when you dish it out and then other people kick you to the curb! And especially when that person (me) gave a lot of respect and treated him well, very well. In fact, I'm probably the only one who has ever treated him with respect and let's say love (kindness, compassion, etc). Real things, nothing artificial, nothing superficial or material based, never 'used' him as others have. For me at least, I was in it for the right reasons.
Really sad.; July 19, 2013 at 11:17 AM
Gemini 50 said...: Hi All,

I haven’t posted in a bit (although I’ve been reading), and this probably belongs in the “online dating” feed, but since I’ve been most active on the “disappearing” feed, thought I’d keep it here.

I am still on the online dating site (8 days to go and it’s still killing me), and I did start emailing with a man a couple wks ago who is a widowed Court Officer that sounded nice and normal.

I was away last week 4 days on business trip, and when I came home, saw he had sent 2 mssgs. I sent an email explaining I had been away on business trip, was very tired but wanted to respond with a quick note that I’d respond soon. Well, he came online, and we began bantering back and forth via email messaging (I haven’t done the chat thing yet) and he wanted to know my full name and my FB page (I gave him my first name only). He first gave me his full name and told me he was on FB.

I remembered Ms. Mirror advising not to become FB friends with guys you are dating. I tried looking him up on FB, but could not find him (too many w/same name). I told him I couldn’t find him then he gave me the town he lives in. I still could not find him. I was really exhausted, and courteously explained I had to go with an “over and out,” message.

The next morning, I saw he had sent another message asking again for my full name and whether I was on FB. I responded that I could not find him and explained I have my FB page set so no one can find me. I know two couples that live in his town, and asked if he knew them. Then as a joke (turns out a bad one) I said something like, “giving you my name will enable you to look me up in court records lol.” (for info here: all he'd find is speeding tickets)

WOAH! The comment regarding looking me up insulted this man tremendously and boy did he go off on me -- not only about his credentials, but then commenting negatively about my profile (which previously he was sending mssgs how great it was).

He did not respond to whether he knew the people I mentioned, and my gut told me that his response was more than about his taking my comment as an insult: He wasn’t getting WHAT he wanted (my name and FB info) WHEN he wanted it (and it was a red flag).

I talked to a gf about it and she was adamant that I should have given him my name once we had emailed 3 times. (Really, there are time line rules??)

I am not of the same thinking. This man did not ask for my phone number to talk, he asked for my full name and FB page. What the hell is he going to do with it? Who cares what my full name is? And I don’t know this guy… he had one pic up on the dating site, who knows if it is even him. Why would I let someone I emailed w/3x (never spoken to or met) into my life via FB?

I sent him a two-line response apologizing for insulting him, explaining it was not my intent, and wishing him the best.

It’s been a good experience to see how this one guy (a Gemini) turned on a dime. Yes, I insulted him (unintentionally, and I feel bad about that), and boy, did he put a lot of effort and words into coming right back at me – and amping it up by commenting negatively about my profile.

If he responds to my apology, I won’t open the message (he has his account set so he can see when someone reads a message). If he thinks about it, maybe it’ll be a good lesson for him as well.

Hugs to All.
I hope things are going well for you Lady Leo.; July 20, 2013 at 8:28 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror @Anonymous July 17, 4:02PM,

Thank you for your advice and guidelines for on-line dating it has given me a good framework and I've already put it into practice before I had a date.

I've also had lots of interactions and I'm really observing and making them do the work and it does work as a good filter because very early on the majority who have another agenda fail to put in the work and I can then just move on and I've saved myself from the trouble :); July 20, 2013 at 4:25 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50,
You did the right thing dear - and his response PROVED that to you. Can you imagine if you HAD let this man onto your FB, gone on a date with him, the date went bad or he took something you said the wrong way or maybe you told him you'd rather be friends than date - can you just IMAGINE what the hell a guy like that would've done on your FB? Can you imagine how he'd have reacted in a public forum like that. It would've been embarrassing.

Because here's the deal. Your comment to him, don't beat yourself up over that. It was simply you showing your sense of humor - along with your intelligence. And through that, you learned a few things about this man and correctly OBSERVED HIS BEHAVIOR. And what you learned is:

1) He has no sense of humor about himself

2) He cannot handle a perceived "rejection" with grace and dignity and maturity

3) He cannot control his reaction

4) He gets mean and nasty as a result

5) He appears to have control issues

That right there speaks loud and clear dear. Because any man with good intentions that is genuinely interested would UNDERSTAND that a woman needs to keep a certain amount of protection in place when dating online. It's to be expected. And as a woman, if you encounter a man who wants to do the same there, then you hae to equally understand that as well.

FB can come after a few phone calls, as you've stated. FB can come after HE gets to KNOW you. After he puts in some damn effort to do it - not BEFORE. He wants to put effort into finding you on that stupid damn FB (yes, I absolutely hate FB folks as it's a relationship destroyer of all sorts, work, friends, social and relationship - it's an absolute haven of social "whack-ness"), but not put in the effort to speak on the phone? Whatever - lazy, lazy, lazy.

But you see, know YOU KNOW he's lazy. Now you know he over-reacts, now you know he can't control his reactions and emotions, now you know he resorts to nastiness and now you know - he isn't worth another ounce of your time.

Congratulations! You just "filtered" this man and saved yourself a ton of grief :-)

That's what I mean about online dating dear - it's "school" for men - where you can put all of these filtering techniques into practice and GET COMFORTABLE using them. This will do you good, you'll see. And you're already getting the hang of it and you're already getting comfortable saying "no" and setting your boundaries with men.

And if I had to guess here, the reason your comment sent him into orbit, which was perfectly acceptable humor that he SHOULD have taken with a grain of salt and had a laugh over - is because IT TOUCHED A NERVE WITH HIM.

Don't assume your comment was an insult. Instead, assume you HIT THE DAMN NAIL ON THE HEAD THERE. You see, when someone over-reacts to a casual "poke" like that, it's because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE THINKING - and you sussed them out. To deflect some of that, to deflect the guilt they feel, they become defensive and over-react. It's the same as when a player overcompensates for his lack of manliness by being very macho - a guilty individual will overcompensate for their guilt by over-reacting and deflecting the focus away from themselves and onto you instead.

It's like, "Oh no, she knows - and the spotlight is on me. I need to get that spotlight off of myself and onto something else instead - HER."

Cont. .; July 21, 2013 at 7:41 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: I frankly thing you outsmarted this man, caught him red handed in what he was about to do, called him on it in a joking manner and he "outed" him to an extent - to which he completely went bonkers in reaction to.

Next time someone asks for FB up front like that, try using casual, suggestive guiding techniques instead:

Q: "Can I have your full name and your FB?"

A: "How about we talk on the phone instead?"

So even though you're giving him the answer of no on the one hand, you're opening up a door and another option in the other. And in your response you don't say no, you simply ignore directly answering the request and lean towards and focus on the other option, the one you're comfortable with, instead.

Wouldn't have mattered with this one though. No one wants to date a damn hot-head, male or female, as the emotional "drama" these folks create is draining and in his case, he would've shown this eventually anyway. If such a silly casual "poke" can send this man into orbit, I imagine there's tons more that would've done the same eventually.

This was actually good for you Gem. You did EXCELLENT here, this tactic worked for you, you followed your gut, you stood your ground and you handled his negativity with grace and dignity.

PERFECT.

And as for your friend dear, I imagine she means well - but here's the difference between you and her. SHE would've walked right into this head first - giving this man exactly what he wanted - and trying to be "too nice" and accomodating to him, which would've ultimately landed her in the powerless position of being taken advantage of in the long run. She'd end up with this man and it'd be all about him and not about her. And she'd be beating her head against the wall attempting to carry the relationship along, being treated poorly and wondering why the hell it wasn't working and/or what she was doing wrong the entire time.

But YOU on the other hand, proceeded with a smart dose of caution, did NOT give this man exactly what he wanted simply because he asked for it and instead, got to watch this man come unglued over something pretty insignificant and silly. You got to OBSERVE him (his ACTIONS, behavior) - which ultimately saved you from a potentially miserable dating experience in the long run.

I see this as a home-run and a huge milestone for you dear. Because you know, several months ago, you may have not been comfortable saying "no" to a request like that and you probably would've felt like you were being mean and you probably would've beat yourself up over that.

Instead, you stand firm, stand strong, protect yourself, suffer no remorse - and you get to move on feeling empowered, confident and secure in the knowledge that you're properly looking out for yourself :-); July 21, 2013 at 7:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Gemini,

I've been posting to Mirror recently on here too as I've had disappearing man stuff too.

Well done you handled this perfectly. You set your boundary with him and you had every right to and he reacted with a temper tantrum, very aggressive, so thank god you found out early what he was going to be like!!

I think you're right not to let him on your Facebook because it's too much access to your life in the beginning until you know what he's like. Then I'm with Mirror about facebook and I think it just causes more problems in the end as you hear of so many women on here and the men are playing games on facebook with them.

I had this guy pretty much straight away ask me if I was on FB whatssap etc and he said he wanted to get to know me better. I just saw a red flag and thought - no get to know me on here through proper channels and I couldn't be bothered explaining that to him as I sensed he was a player anyway and I told him that he was lucky to find me on there! Needless to say I didn't hear from him again and his profile has vanished - bothered!!

Funny, I had another guy saying that 'he wanted to get to know me better' and I started picking vibes up off him that he was a player so I didn't give much away but I was friendly, needless to say his profile has vanished too out of thin air. So you're right in filtering, you've got to have you're wits about you as what may appear to be a nice bloke and genuine a few e-mails down the line and you start getting a sense of their true colours don't you.

I think your friend is wrong and you were right here about giving your surname at this stage he doesn't need to know until you establish if he's worth dating as you've got to think about your security as a surname is a personal detail really and I wouldn't give anything out prematurely.

Can I ask Mirror a question here on the procedure of e-mails, phone calls etc.

I know that you're not supposed to call a guy but in the on-line world of dating, what I decided to do was take the man's number and block my number when calling. The reason being is I wait till I feel relatively comfortable that I want to go on a date with them and then I want to speak to establish if we can get on - on the phone and off-line and only then will I go ahead with a date.

So at this point I really feel strongly that I don't want this guy knowing my number until I know I want to go on a date with them and that's why I ring and block my number. I know men are supposed to ring you but I don't want them having my number in case they turn out to be unsavoury characters and then start bothering me if I decide against the date.

Please could you give your thoughts on this because I don't want to initiate but in this instance my safety and privacy are priority and while I'm making up my mind then it seems like the best thing to do for me.

You're doing really well Gemini - I think you should sign up again when you're subscription finishes or try a different dating website - you never know and it's great for putting everything into practice and building confidence and self-esteem.; July 21, 2013 at 8:48 AM
Gemini 50 said...: Thanks Ms. Mirror,

THIS IS the exact point in the line of a new relationship where I've gone wrong so many times.

In the past, I have allowed a man to convince me that what I saw/felt was not accurate, and I put my gut to the side. I would have continued along keeping the gut volume to almost nothing with every new 'thing' that didn't make sense or feel right. I would have eventually found myself to be so deep into a relationship I didn't want to be in, and really not wanting to hurt the guy, that I would stay in it until it honestly became a matter of life and death for my soul.

Not this time. Court Officer messaged me yesterday, I have not opened it. And I am going to do my best not to (I am going to keep my big-girl panties on and teach the curious kid how to take care of herself like a real woman) ;)

Man, I can't believe how hard this is for me, and why it's so different from every other aspect of my life.

Example: During my business mtg last wk (with this new group of people I am now working with across the country for the summer), someone was really bashing the field workers. It was day 2, the first full day. I had been pretty quiet day 1. Well, no one, not one single person spoke up. Every person was either shaking their head in agreement, or remaining silent (to me, silence is consent).

I couldn't take it. I asked if I could "respectfully disagree," and I WENT OFF! lol

I spoke up for the workers, their challenges, and our failure to provide them what they need to do their jobs successfully. I spoke of our responsibility to them and their commitment to our organization by the hours they work, the holidays and anniversaries and birthdays they sacrifice, and the good they do in their communities daily. And I said more that I can't remember.

At the end, everyone just looked at me, and I could see I was now feared. I was not going to play by 'their' rules, and I was dangerous to their little club they had built. But I don't care, I don't give a F, and I wish I could feel this way about a man when starting to get to know them.

continued; July 21, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Gemini 50 said...: continued -

Where is that switch in us to turn "on" for ourselves?

I have no damn problem standing in the face of ignorance, selfishness and arrogance when it comes to others.

I so wish I could garner that for myself without having to push thru so much other crap first.

I can't wait for the day when it all falls into place for me. :)

Time to get myself busy -- going to mow the lawn.

hugs to all!; July 21, 2013 at 9:45 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 21, 8:48AM,
Well most of these online dating services offer services to make contact happen and protect your identity at the same time.

For instance, Match.com has a service like that. You can speak on the phone without the individual knowing your number:

http://www.twilio.com/blog/2012/01/match-com-anonymous-calling-text-messaging.html

And many other sites are following suit with that as protection is a huge issue.

Regarding giving them your personal number, if you cell is a "private" number (which you should always do anyway so you don't end up getting sales calls on it), it shouldn't be "reverse" searchable for an address to be located from it.

And if the individual becomes a nuisance after a bad date, generally you can block calls and texts coming from them in the future.

But as with anything, generally a couple of "no response" situations takes care of men like that - after a few lame attempts, they generally move on.

It's a personal decision though and my suggestion is to proceed in whatever manner you feel most secure and safe.; July 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM
Peter said...: @Gemini50

Just some encouragement here :-)

Keep going with what you practice because you're right now at where you need to be in order to reach habit with this..it's about learning stages. Understanding this can make it easier to stay the path you can see your "change" as a process which in my experience with clients works massively.

1-Unconscious Incompetence-The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit.

2-Conscious Incompetence-Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit.

3-Conscious Competence-The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge consistently requires concentration.

4-Unconscious Competence-he individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

You're right now somewhere between stage 2 and 3. You can see your mistakes and you know how to make it right. You can use the skills MOA shows you with concentration but not consistently yet.The above stages happen in every walk of life when learning a new skil or behaviour.

Understand the stages and keep going and I PROMISE you will be ok and it will work out :-); July 21, 2013 at 10:44 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50,
"Man, I can't believe how hard this is for me, and why it's so different from every other aspect of my life."

That goes away in time dear. With men, you're most likely a "pleaser." Meaning, somewhere inside, you feel that pleasing them validates you as a woman. So when you "displease" them, you feel disappointment and self doubt.

However, and this is where I'm trying to sell you on online dating for reasons other than meeting a man, LOL - this will fade in time. The more you get comfortable saying "no" - the easier it becomes.

And the online dating world gives you LOTS of practice at saying "no" to men dear, LOL ;-)

It's a place where you can practice and hone your "filtering" skills, saying no, gaining strength, get comfortable with asserting that side of yourself and get comfortable with thinking about YOU, instead of OTHERS.

He was your first round at this. So naturally, it's going to feel a bit uncomfortable. BUT - if you stick with this, after another two or three times having to say "no" - it's going to become a breeze dear and you're going to begin to see how this one little word "NO" - can be so very useful. You're going to begin to see that had you used that powerful word in the past, you'd have saved yourself lots of sleepless nights. And you'll resort to that wonderful tool time and time again - NO. No I won't tolerate this, no I won't accept this, no this is not the way to win me over - no, I can do better than this.

You'll see :-) The word "no" is going to slowly become an easier word to form in your mouth - and use on the proper individuals.

And once you're comfortable with that - you can step out of the "virtual" world and back into the third dimension that we all live in - fully armed with the capability to say "no" - and to look out for yourself properly, to be comfortable using filtering techniques and to feel safe and secure when dating knowing that you're properly taking care of and protecting yourself.

Consider it "school" and practice these techniques there until they become second nature to you. Then "graduate" from the virtual world, enter the real one again - and use all of the new tools and skills to navigate it without pain :-); July 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Peter,
Thank you, your message is so sweet. I have read it several times, and it makes sense. I just wonder if our conscious/spiritual understanding can really be transcribed to the human condition. I know I have failed miserably in the latter.

I have no spiritual "training," I just know what I feel, and understand that every person is on a path (as I am). Being part of another's path is a gift, and is part of our own path. But in this world of self and ego, I get caught in the cross-fires for many reasons (I am starting to realize).

I am going to stay at it, so that practice does make second nature.

@ Ms. Mirror,
I've read your response several times as well. And it took several times for me to realize: You are right, I am a pleaser towards men. I like men. Growing up and still today, I am close to one brother, and hung out with his friends. As a child, my dad was absolutely wonderful towards me. He was such a good man, and taught me a lot about grace. I love a good man's company, I love how a good man thinks, I love how I feel with a good man.

And although I'm struggling with your, "pleasing them validates you as a woman," I think you are right in a sense. My concurrence is in regards to being a female rather than a woman. When female energy is meshed with male energy, there is nothing under the sun they cannot accomplish together.

And I know I have to think about that some more, and it's probably confusing for others, but to explain, before I was a "woman" in life, I have loved good men. So, what was I before I was a woman, and what have I always been? A female. (Yep, I believe in ALL of my lives, I have always been a female. -- don't know why I feel that way, but I do.)

How this relates to my latest post, I have no idea... lol. It's just coming out.

And guess what? Mr. Court Officer messaged me again an hr ago. Hmm, talk about power (mine). I didn't open his message from yesterday, and I'm sure he's seen I was on this AM.

I am dying to see what he has written... but then what am I going to do with it? He's already shown his negative cards, and it's nothing I want a part of.

It's all still a learning process. I'm still at it.

And I will use your suggestion re: telephone numbers if there is a "next time." :)

Thanks!; July 21, 2013 at 5:13 PM
Lady Leo said...: @Gemini50,

Hi doll....thanks for your thoughts to me :)

It sounds like you are learning the online way of life. MOA is darn right about it being a school of sorts. I went through just what you are going through. It's a numbers game really in learning who is going to make it past the snuff test of sincerity and sanity. I developed a good strategy of weaning them out. Respect, consistency are very important. Once I developed this I really had no bad dates or bad men. THe worst is just men who aren't ready to date and have a relationship. Keep at it, you are learning!

As for my taurus....he IS the real deal, Im just the one who made a muck of it. This week has been a big challenge for me. Couldn't keep NC. One day I would, next day I'd email him or he email me. All superfiscial crap really. "How are you...family stuff" etc. It's clear we don't want to let go of each other but neither of us is stepping up with "real" talk. When he said a week ago he wasn't ready for commitment I agreed and said neither was I, so we are both basically having a pissing contest.

Two nights ago I texted to say hello. he replied with 2 texts to which I didn't reply immediately. he sent a third saying "oh ok, you're ignoring me again? LOL goodnight". See, he was bothered by my silence but had to add a "LOL" to make it seem like he was laughing. He wasn't. I didn't reply cus I was driving. Hours later I did reply and explained myself. I did that because I DO have a history of ignoring his texts and as I promised him in my amends I wouldnt do that anymore, I wanted him to know I was being true to my word. We didn't end with his disappearing so it's hard to know how to apply total NC.

Yesterday I planned NC...LOL...til HE initiated a text with a photo of he, his birth father and uncle. That hit my heart because of the long, sorid sad story of not knowing his real dad for the first 15 yrs of life. And here he was sharing a special moment with me. How could I NOT reply? So I compliment the photo and an hour later he sends two more of just him that his daughter had just taken. He is clearly trying to get me to not forget him. I reply of course. *sigh*. Few hours later I send one of me out on the town in a strapless dress...and said goodnight. No reply from him. I know it bothered him wondering who I was with as he inferred earlier as to my plans. And today, no contact from either side.

I fully intend and HOPE to have it remain that way until he makes a sincere reach out to talk. Im taking this 5 minutes at a time. It's not easy because we are both at fault.

Damn love!; July 21, 2013 at 7:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Going Crazy Here:

I am recently divorced and I was absolutely terrified of the whole dating thing. Me and my ex had been together since we were 15 so i had no experience what so ever. Just turned 30 and basically starting over was a little scary.
Well i met a guy on an online dating site, a few actually and some experiences were lessons learned and resized what i for sure didn't want. I finally met this guy that i really liked and he felt the same. We did alot of texting and talking on the phone for several weeks before we actually met. Things probably moved a little to fast but it all seemed right. We had a lot in common and things were going great. He was going through a seperation as well so i was fully aware of the fact that he could change his mind and go back to her so had my guard up most of they way. There were a few times were we wouldn't really talk for a few days which was pretty normal for us since we both had kids and a busy life.

Well things were still good he had spent time at my house as long as i didn't have the kids and the same for me spending time at his. Ive met his friends and liked them very much. He was always very affectionate with me in front of his friends and when we were out on a date.

Here were thing got weird. We had plans to go to a friends party. That morning he pretty much said that he thought i was perfect for him and he was really looking forward to us being togather and blahblahblah.... 2 hours later he texted and said... " Im sorry i can't do this..i know things were said earlier and all but i think i owe it her and myself to try and make it work"...
I said ok and good luck. I asked why all the sudden change and he said it was just something he needed to do.

Well 5 days later he called and went on about how he couldn't stop thinking about me and things weren't working out with them and they were for sure over. and he wanted another chance. I was very skeptical and told him so. I was ok with all of it but i told him in no way we could just pick up were we left off and he said he understood that he hurt me and he would prove things to me and gain my trust again. Well we got into an argument about 2 weeks ago because he wanted me to meet his daughter and i said no i wasn't ready to do that, that we needed to work things out with us before we included the kids. I knew that made him upset but i was sticking to my decition. Things were really different the next time i saw him and he was pretty distant. Said he just needed some time to think and all that. Keep in mind i was never demanding or clingy or anything of that sort. We were pretty much on equal ground but i felt like he was punishing me for not wanting to meet his daughter like i had done something wrong. Well i hadn't heard from him in a few days so i just let i go and didn't contact him until the day my divorce became final. I texted and said
" not sure if it matters or if you care but my divorce was finalized today"

He got defensive saying that was kind of rude and i said well youve been pretty rude by pretty much ignoring for almost a week when your trying to get my trust back. he said that wasn't my intentions and we talked for a little bit. He texted the next few days with a "good morning" or "How was your Day" I would give him simple replies and didn't elaborate on anything. I texted him one night and for a few minutes and then no reply after a bit and now its been 8 days since i have heard from him. Im trying very hard not to text and to just go on with my normal life like i always do but its driving me crazy!

How long should i wait this out or should i just move on?; July 21, 2013 at 9:18 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 21, 9:18PM,
You need to walk away from this one dear or else you're going to get tangled in his web of confusion and YOU are going to be the one to suffer the fallout.

It almost sounds to me like he's attempting to replicate what he HAD - with you. It's almost like he realizes his old family is a thing of the past, so now, he's going to hurry up and throw together a new one - so that his experience of "family" remains in tact. It's almost like. .ever see those stickers on the back of peoples vehicles where there's a stick family? A stick mom, dad, kids, dogs and cats?

Well, it's almost like there's an opening for the stick mom - and he's looking to plunk you into it, if the previous stick mom backs out. And to me, that reads as a "rebound." :-(

My suggestion would be to remove yourself from the situation and let this man get it together himself. If he does that, then you can re-enter his life.

Forget what he says, forget his WORDS - and look at his ACTIONS (or lack thereof) because that's where the truth lies.; July 22, 2013 at 8:55 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lady Leo,
I mean no disrespect dear but I'd like to offer a few observations for you to think on :-)

"we are both basically having a pissing contest."

Who is initiating this contest? Who is perpetuating it? And why has this turned into a "contest" at all?

There's a very fine line between playing hard to get and playing a game. And he's onto this "contest":

"oh ok, you're ignoring me again? LOL goodnight"

Careful of giving him the wrong impression here about yourself. If you truly like him, you don't want him to deduce that you're playing a game here, ya' know?

Because true NC is done for 30 days. When it's done for two days here, then you break it and contact him, then you disappear, then you reappear a couple days later, then you do it again - that's not NC, it is actually a "contest" that can be likened to a game - which isn't genuine.

"it's hard to know how to apply total NC."

The time for that has passed. It's no longer an option because if you do that now, after initiating again, after agreeing that no commitment is wanted - then he's going to get the impression that you're a game player and I would refrain from sending him that message if you truly want this to go somewhere.

And this can also be interpreted the same by him:

"here he was sharing a special moment with me. . .a photo of he, his birth father and uncle. . .two more of just him that his daughter"

To which you respond with:

"I send one of me out on the town in a strapless dress...No reply from him. I know it bothered him wondering who I was with. . .And today, no contact from either side."

He's onto the "contest" here and he may be getting the wrong impression of you as a result. If you truly like this man and want this to work, when he is genuine with you, try to be genuine in return. If you try to use NC here and/or jealousy tactics on a man that is attempting to be genuine, it's the wrong use of it.

Balance and equality are the way to go if you truly want to form a connection with this man and want him to form one with you - that means that a genuine moment shared by him, should receive a genuine moment shared by you. That's how a genuine connection will be made.

But as a third party, I'm sensing the contest here myself dear, particularly with some of the terminology used:

"he IS the real deal, Im just the one who made a muck of it."

"This week has been a big challenge for me. Couldn't keep NC. One day I would, next day I'd email him"

"All superfiscial crap really."

"we are both basically having a pissing contest."

"it's hard to know how to apply total NC."

"Yesterday I planned NC"

"he was sharing a special moment with me"

"I send one of me out on the town in a strapless dress"

"I know it bothered him wondering who I was with"; July 22, 2013 at 9:57 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: You see, these tactics are meant to be used only on men who are treating you poorly. When used on men who are treating you in a genuine manner, they will see through it and deem you a game player.

If you want this to be real and you want this to go somewhere, then when he's genuine, you should be the same in return - so that you both make a genuine connection with one another.

If he's being genuine and you respond with more "contest" - that's not going to lead to a genuine connection. And if you intend to use NC, he needs to have done something to deserve that. And then proper use of it is for 30 days solid, not a day or two here, then contact, then another day or so, etc.

I just fear that you have the intention of making a genuine connection with this man - but you're using methods on him meant for players treating you poorly. If this man isn't treating you poorly, he doesn't deserve those methods, ya' know? Because when used on genuine men, it does really amount to gaming and a "contest" of sorts that won't lead to anything authentic because YOU are not being real in return, ya' know?

When he shares a special moment and you respond with a tactic meant to arouse jealousy, that won't lead to a genuine connection dear and he's already seeing through that.

You don't have to respond to this, it's simply some food for thought and the honest observation of a third party is all. So take it in, think on it a bit, and then see if maybe there isn't something that you can tweak to make this more real if you truly want this to work instead of the "contest" it's somehow now become :-); July 22, 2013 at 9:57 AM
KK said...: Mirror, what would you do with old messages/pictures from a man, I've read to just delete them, but what about 'return to sender'?
1) It would make it clear to the man that you no longer want any of his 'things', you are signaling to him that you are removing him from your life/moving on.
2) The messages he wrote himself would be returned to him to only prove and show what he said/did, how he behaved, etc. It came from the horse’s mouth.
I've deleted the pictures over time that Pisces has sent me, and deleted the last one, last night. A friend advised me to send the messages back and tell him I was cleaning out my phone. I didn't do that. That could start something, it could confuse him, anger him, etc. And who wants to receive a flood of text messages like that? So (kick me) I opted for asking him if he wanted any of his old pics/texts back along with the 'cleaning out my phone' thing. (I could be cleaning it out to get a new one and a new number, and for him that should kick-start some kind of worry or anxiety). He did not reply but was 'around' and that is the only thing I said, I will not say anymore (even if he does) and I'm going full NC now. That was his last 'opportunity' let's say. A test of some kind. He could never give me a straight yes or no answer anyway, so he either doesn't care right now or couldn't respond to it because if anything was sent back to him, it would only show him what actually happened, what was really there, it would be 'evidence' and it's something he doesn't want to face. He could be in denial, 'self-deceit'.

However, I'm still allowed to observe - and have noticed a pattern, I've said it before, he does mirror me and my behaviour. Whenever I did something on FB, he would follow suit and almost try to compete (to try to gain my attention), so obviously he's watching me. I was out with friends this weekend and had a really good time, the proof is all there thanks to my friends, and he’s seen it. As soon as everything was said and done, he put his stuff up. But since then I have 'restricted' him. I know I have to be 'gone' and he can't have any access to me whatsoever.; July 22, 2013 at 12:23 PM
KK said...: I noticed too after our conversation on Monday night that there was no activity from him all week (which is odd) considering I know he checks in daily, but didn't 'do' anything this week until early Sunday morning (and right after me), and it was the usual thing (boring, predictable).

That same Monday night prior to talking, this other girl posted a heart on his wall, and he responded with "Thanks" - (ouch!) no real reciprocation and a red flag obviously. She did something else on Tuesday morning, then again on Saturday morning, this is the kicker: "I *heart*/love you, you're the best, I'm so lucky to have you" - Really, Love? Within a month? - Nahh. You don't even really know the person, how can you love them? And it is the man who should say that first. I think she didn't get the hint when he first removed her 'clingy' comments, then when she continued he thought "hmm ok, I can use this to my advantage now, she doesn't have any respect for herself, has no other options and is desperate, this will be fun" - But then she turns it up a notch with the 'love' post. He's been on, but hasn't said anything publicly to it/reciprocated or removed it yet (but I’m sure it’s coming or will happen soon).
And outside of that, he says they’re talking/texting/hanging out, and she’s probably initiating most of it. So if that's not the definition of 'crazy' or 'psycho', I don't know what is - never heard me throw out the L word within the first month, let alone 7 months now. And if she's pursuing, what is he doing? (Clear as day to me)
I think that alone would make him see me in a different light - I wasn't THAT bad and I did warn him about this, I was almost looking out for him, I saw it right away. The best part of this though is that it's all public, it's not private, it's on display and it's his own fault (he led her on). It's feeding his ego, but that's about it.
I told a friend of mine this and put together the scenario for him - after hearing about this woman and how she's acting, his eyes bulged out of his head like a deer in the headlights - panic, fear, etc. Not good.; July 22, 2013 at 12:26 PM
KK said...: He also told me to pull out the 'big guns' now - meaning, more time, make him really go nuts. He also said to me that if Pisces continues with these 'public displays' and if he has player tendencies, this activity will make him look 'unavailable' to other women, he'll feel tied down, he'll feel restricted, he won't be able to 'play' anymore, his chances or options will decrease and he will resent that, quickly!. Or perhaps it could go the other way and be looked at as competition? (But really, what woman wants to get involved in that mess) This man also noted that Pisces may be used to women doing the chasing, but now that I'm in the picture or since I came along and he did most of the pursuing in the beginning and me pulling me back now and just being very different from what he is used to, it could trigger or lead to something and either way will be good for ME in the end. He also said if a woman is acting aloof and distant, it could backfire - you could come off like a 'bad girlfriend' - I disagree with that, unless the man is doing everything correctly, respecting you, etc. You have no reason to be distant and aloof. You only start pulling back and 'acting' that way for a reason. He agreed with me after I explained it LOL.

Taurus also agrees on that level too and we seem to be on the same page in terms of our thinking and maturity - he revealed some stories about online dating and his experiences and how women have pursued him, he would reciprocate with 'interested, lengthy, proper' messages and then only receive vague, almost immature responses, he lost interest quick but did reveal "If I really wanted to, I could stick around just because I liked her profile picture and stuck around to just get laid" But he also said he wouldn't actually enjoy it and there wouldn't be any respect there - Honest, and I see where he's coming from, it would just be too easy for him or any other man.
My messages to him show that I do have respect for myself and will not settle, but am having fun and taking my time and being open, it's going well so far. And I always receive his messages when I seem to be having a really bad day - just when I need it and they're always funny and spontaneous. A positive thing for sure. :); July 22, 2013 at 12:29 PM
KK said...: As well, I read something interesting not too long ago; apparently there are 3 stages that a man goes through when it comes to relationships/commitment. It goes along with what you teach here I find - but you really don't have to do anything.

On your own without asking (observing) you can figure out 'where he is' (what stage he's in), why he's 'stuck' there (he's resisting and fighting it due to fear, insecurity or pressure) and how to get him unstuck (say if he's pulling away, being distant, or just disappearing-reappearing)

-First stage is Attraction (purely physical, lust) - Or if you’re a sucker, ‘love’ after one month (sorry, it’s still funny to me)

-Second stage is Connection (more than physical, you have a bond/connection, you 'know' eachother) - Which I think is where NC comes into play, so the man can realize on his own what's there/what he feels for you. - And where I think Pisces could be/will be at.

-And the third and final stage is obviously Commitment (has had time to think, he dives right in, has nothing to lose and everything to gain) there's no longer any fear or doubt or pressure, he made the decision, it was his idea, not yours.; July 22, 2013 at 12:35 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @KK,
"Mirror, what would you do with old messages/pictures from a man, I've read to just delete them, but what about 'return to sender'?"

No, don't do that - it's a purely, 100% emotional reaction and men see that when a woman does that. You think you're putting him in his place with behavior like that, but he senses and knows that what you're really doing is expressing that you CARE. So much so, that you cannot control your REACTION and feel a need to LASH OUT.

In the end, all it does is reassure the man that he still has a hold on you and that he still affects you deeply.

"and for him that should kick-start some kind of worry or anxiety"

No, all he'll see there is that he still has a hold on you and this is an emotional reaction to that.

What kick starts worry and anxiety is SILENCE. Communication only reassures them that you're still "hanging on." Because truthfully, why would anyone want old texts sent back to them and photos sent via text when. . .they clearly already have those on THEIR phone (they sent them to YOU from THEIR phone).

In the end, it doesn't make any sense to send someone text and pics they already sent you. It's purely an emotional reaction and it will signal to the man that he's still in your head because YOU are taking ACTION with HIM.

The best thing to do dear, is to cease being ACTIVE here - and go SILENT instead.

The language of men is that of ACTION, they understand it on a gut level and they know exactly what it means. When they want to send a message, they go INACTIVE and SILENT.

As women, if you want a man to understand and HEAR you, speak their language - remain INACTIVE and SILENT - and they'll hear you loud and clear.

On the other hand, when their is ACTION on the woman's part, they also know EXACTLY what that means. So when a woman is RE-ACTING to a man (taking actions of some sort, even if negative) - they know what that means. And to them, it amounts to reassurance that they're still on your mind, still in your head. .and that they've still got some sort of hold on you.; July 22, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Anonymous said...: i'm Ms. ORANGE-GREEN

hi MOA :) ive been reading your blog for almost two weeks now since the day i saw this because of looking for an answer on what to do wiht my dating stage now. gosh!!! i love it. the thoughts i have in mind on how to react and response with all this men's behavior reinforced due to this post of yours..thank u.,its hard but am in it.. am practicing it..though i think ive done things i shoulnt do but i have to pick myself up and do better this time around...

i just want to ask, is DELETING / blocking him in FB is also part of the 30 days no contact rule?

Thanks for your immediate respose ;); July 22, 2013 at 1:28 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Ms. Orange-Green,
Well that depends. It's a personal choice, however, my suggestion is generally to not react, because a reaction only reassures the man that you still care, because if you didn't, you wouldn't react, it wouldn't matter to you.

However, if you find yourself obsessing over his page and his whereabouts and who he's spending time with, etc. - then unfriend him.

If you don't obsess over it and it doesn't cause you heightened anxiety or stress, then you can leave it be, but block him from viewing your updates, photos, etc. - to keep him out of your life.

Blocking is something that most folks aren't aware of, however, unfriending is something that folks can become aware of eventually.

So if you want to keep him out of your world while maintaining the appearance of friendship (acting as if nothing has changed and you're okay with it), then leave the friendship be and block him from updates and images, etc.

The only real thing to focus on regarding social media during no contact is - not actually contacting him there and/or interacting with him there - because any communication and/or interaction there is actually "contact."; July 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM
Gemini 50 said...: @ KK,

My advice is not to send anything back. Aquarius sent a box of pics back to me a yr after we split. No note enclosed, the return and mailing address were the same, just pics.

It looked like a pathetic attempt at attention or a "last stand."

And all I did with it was seal the box back up and throw it in the recycling bin. No rehashing of memories, no melancholy of time past, just a 'wtf?' thought, and toss.

Don't do it. It looks like you are looking for attention. If you don't want them, throw them out... easy-peasy.

And for those that have pics of a relationship that was very bad for you, burning the pics outside in a nice fire helps to break the hold the pain has on you. I did that with my x-husband. In an apt complex, people thought I was nuts. But it was freeing.

I do save one pic of every man that has meant something to me (even after it has gone bad). When I am an old wise woman, I want to be able to look back on the pics and remember the good times I shared with each of them. :); July 22, 2013 at 3:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Going Crazy Here:

Well Heres a little back ground on him. He was only married for about 6 months before they split up and his two daughters are from previous relationships. He has full custody of his oldest and is a great father from what can tell and very protective of her. I think he took my not wanting to meet her personal to her, like i didn't like her. Which i cleared up pretty damn quick. I really do like him and in the beginning of all of this we got along great. This was also his first marriage.

I still haven't texted or contacted him at all and he hasn't me either. I am so damn confused here..lol.. This whole dating stuff is all new to me. Its pretty shocking to be treated this way and way out of my element here. I was looking forward to see were it would go.; July 22, 2013 at 8:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Ok, question...you say 3 days and some suggest mirroring the same amount of days he waited. My person waited 5...granted I was out of town on business for a week. So is it best to wait 3 or the full five. Also, strangely I kind of like that I have the control right now. Therefore, I am ok with waiting. However, is that bad for feeling that way. On the other hand, I don't like the game playing. I want a mature relationship where I don't have to be mirroring. This begs the question...should any of us bother with mirroring because if I have to train a guy to be a man would the onus be on me? Or am I just better off keeping my walk and not pausing for anyone just hold out for the man who will keep up?; July 22, 2013 at 8:42 PM
KK said...: @Mirror and Gem,

Well I'm definitely glad I DIDN'T send anything back and will not. To me of course I thought "oh this will kickstart things and make him wonder why I'm getting rid of his stuff, make him feel bad, hurt him a little" - So yes all in all, I am reacting, but the word 'inactive' just reminded me of what I did before and it did work. I was INACTIVE and SILENT, for a while at least.

Now though I find if I don't do something, as far as FB is concerned, I will only be tempted to 'react' if I'm able to easily see his page/updates. I won't resort to deleting/unfriending/blocking. But I have put him in a certain 'category' or list so he isn't able to see much of anything anymore, basic stuff - nothing recent, and only the things I may want him to see, we still are considered 'friends' and he still has the option of sending me a message.

But why fully allow someone into your life if they won't really let you into theirs.

I do worry a little if my action today is another reaction - it is my choice, afterall. But since I know he is watching and hiding behind his phone, he'll see that he was able to view everything just the other day, to only look today and have all of that gone, taken away - it's a consequence.

(I know I shouldn't) But I still find myself questioning which is the better option, let him see everything? But risk being tempted and anxious and having everything fall to the wayside? (Don't really want that) Or leave things as they are now and literally have him 'out of sight, out of mind', therefore not causing me to react and trying to be 'gone'.
It's conflicting - some say "you're shutting him out, it could backfire, remain a little 'open' at least" - (I've kept him as a 'friend', I think that's 'open' enough). And others suggest to "let him see everything - let him see what he's really missing, let him see all your new things, how happy you can be/are, etc" - But it goes back with being totally available to them, easily accessible - if you're there and 'around' and in their face all the time, how are they supposed to learn from this and possibly miss you and everything. This is the test to see how hard they will fight to be part of your life.

It feels like I'm on the right track but it also feels like a fine line sometimes too - or it may just be my emotions.
I just don't want to appear like I'm playing games or being wishy-washy myself either. So I understand If i choose something, I have to stick to it (so he gets the message), he has to stay where he is, where I put him, I can't go back and forth between options or choices.

It's not about him really, it's about me and my sanity now. I'm trying to trust myself to do this and be strong and have faith that everything will be fine.; July 22, 2013 at 10:53 PM
Lady Leo said...: Dear MOA...

I THANK YOU for your gentle firmness. I needed to hear what you said. I now realize how I AM confusing the player tactics on a good man, who is just as confused as I am. Thank you for that insight!!

As it turns out, Sunday night he texted me asking "What are we doing???" He "felt" the stupid game playing just as I did. He knew his sending pics and my responding in kind was stupid games. But, he still isn't ready to stick in his toe back into a relationship with me. He said his weekend with his birth father was rough, very emotional and a disappointment. He isn't ready to tell me about it yet so I am stepping back and having compassion for him.

My game playing stops here. If he reaches out again, I will respond in kind. For today, I am just being still and letting the ripples roll as they may.; July 23, 2013 at 8:39 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 22, 8:42PM,
Generally, I think mirroring is the way to go. Wait five days, add one for good measure and then respond, LOL ;-)

No dear, enjoy that feeling of control, it's empowering you. Never feel bad about that (just don't abuse it either).

Should anyone be mirroring? Well, that's a personal decision dear. As for me personally, I don't bother with men that need this type of treatment anymore. I sense one and I'm gone. But many women, as you can see here, are not quite there yet - meaning - they're not able to separate emotion from their decision making process. As a result, they are struggling with the decision to walk away and they are struggling with their emotions about the man.

After several years of that, once your eyes are opened to the treatment that many men dish out, it becomes much easier to use logic and chuck that emotion right out the window, LOL ;-)

But it's a personal decision and it depends on where each woman is at on her personal path in life.; July 23, 2013 at 8:55 AM
Anonymous said...: HI Mirror,

I've been posting recently about my disappearing man and on-line dating.

Where I'm at is my 30 days NC is over now, I've been on-line dating about 2wks into that to force myself to move on.

I have been on a date but he wasn't my type but I had a nice time socialising!!! I've probably got another one lined up ;) These men have been consistent and pursued me.

However, what I'm finding and observing in the main is, I'm having to let go of some of them that I think I might like to go on a date with as there are subtle red flags appearing very early on... It is a bit disappointing when you see this but my worth is more important hanging onto to then hanging on to them!!

It's things like:

Acting or saying that they're laid back, go with the flow types - translate - lazy men wanting the women to do the work.

Expressing interest but not really pursing and may send messages with no question or further pursuit - translate - lazy wanting the women to do the work.

Asking if you're on other social media sites.

Saying they want to get to know you but then making no effort to do so.

I've let so many go on the basis of the above and I'm looking for genuine interest and not putting up with any nonsense.

This is new behaviour for me and part of me is enjoying it, it is a bit disappointing when it starts out promising but I have to say that nipping things in the bud early on is better. As in the past I've overlooked behaviour and had become attached later on, so it is better to feel a bit of disappointment rather than be hurt later on.

Having said this I'm feeling that at the moment by standing my ground and keeping my self-worth that I'm not finding anyone I like as I'm having to let them go...

So could you tell me how this pans out this journey of realising your self-worth and standing by yourself. Is it a test that you pass in the end and then the universe rewards with someone you want? As at the moment in my transition what I'm still attracting is disingenuine types :(

Thank you for your help; July 23, 2013 at 9:36 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 23, 9:36AM,
Well dear, this is the reality of modern day dating. I saw statistics once that said the modern day woman will kiss approximately 75, yes 75, frogs before she finds her Prince - which is why filtering is so very necessary. Otherwise, that number could end up doubled.

It's not that you're not finding anyone, it's that you haven't found the right one yet is all. Because as you can see, if you lowered your standards, there'd be plenty of men to date (and waste your precious time on).

Quality is better than quantity. Meaning, it's better to have two quality dates and male options online than it is to have 8 horrendous ones, LOL ;-)

And how this pans out is, good things come to those who wait. Additionally, this creates emotional "independence" in a woman versus emotional dependence, which is a state that many women live their life in - emotionally dependent on a man for their happiness. A man shouldn't BE your happiness, he should simply ADD to it. If you're happy on your own, then you don't feel that something is missing and you don't try to stuff that void with any Tom, Dick or Harry that comes along (settling), thinking you'll "fix" him or "help" him or just "polish" him up.

So eventually what happens is, you become okay with not having a man in your life every couple of weeks or months. And this helps you gain independence, a sense of self worth, an increased value of yourself and emotional strength. And once you reach that point - and you begin to emit that energy - like attracts like and you begin to attract that energy back to yourself by attracting men who emit the same energy as yourself, hence the creation of a healthy relationship.

It's a process dear and self growth is a journey. Changing old behaviors and old mind sets doesn't happen overnight, but if you're constantly working towards that goal - you eventually reach it.

There's an old saying:

“Girls are like apples...the best ones are at the top of the trees. The boys don't want to reach for the good ones because they are afraid of falling and getting hurt.

Instead, they just get the rotten apples that are on the ground that aren't as good, but easy.

So the apples at the top think there is something wrong with them, when, in reality, they are amazing.

They just have to wait for the right boy to come along, the one who's brave enough to climb all the way to the top of the tree...”

You're the shiny apple at the top of the tree dear. And only the men that get out a ladder and are prepared to do the work of reaching for you are the ones that deserve your attention :-); July 23, 2013 at 10:51 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @The Ladies,
I just saw another quote that I think many of you can find solace in:

"If you are depressed, you live in the past. If you are anxious, you live in the future. But if you are at peace, you live in the present." ~ Lao Tzu

Very true words, ladies :-); July 23, 2013 at 10:53 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @The Ladies,
On another note gals, are any of you watching the reality show "Naked and Afraid" on the Discovery Channel? It features one male and one female, naked and afraid in the wild, fending for themselves.

Anywho, this show caught my eye the other day. And after I watched it, I wanted to throw up, LOL.

You see, the reason I watched was because I wanted to OBSERVE the men in this situation, alone with a woman in the wild. I was curious to see if they would "man up" out there under those conditions. And what I saw - was horrendous.

The episode I watched included a younger male and female, probably late 20's early 30's. And all this man did was whine and yell at this woman he was with. He was like an overgrown 7 year old. He was lazy, all he did was chop and collect firewood, and everytime he attempted to get food and a source of protein, he tried for 10 minutes and gave up. He'd walk away freaking out, throwing a tantrum and yelling at her for her continued efforts.

Not only was he constantly whining and yelling at her (and she even admitted she was holding back on her ideas to gather food so that she wouldn't emasculate him, she admitted she was giving him the "lead" first, before she followed through and became the leader herself in his absence of being one) - but he was MAKING FUN OF HER and of all her IDEAS to get food.

She spent about an hour weaving together a basket that was open on one end with palm leaves and stuffed it with coconut pieces inside for a makeshift trap - she was after lobsters in the ocean.

He made a spear prior to this, laughed at her weaving her basket on the beach, hit the water, tried 3 times, failed, complained about being afraid of being eaten by a shark - and then ABANDONED her ALONE in the ocean while she was under water setting her trap. While she was down there, she speared a sea urchin, which are edible.

When she came up for air to tell him she located a food source, he was already back on the beach, throwing things and whining again. She brought the urchin to the beach and he refused to eat it.

More whining from him ensued, more tantrum, more mimicking her, more making fun of her and her trap she set out there. She cooked her urchin and ate it while he went to bed hungry.

The next day, he's up bright and early whining again about how now, he can't even gather wood because he's so weak from hunger. He continues his day again by loads of whining and temper tantrum displays.

Cont. . .; July 23, 2013 at 11:16 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: She silently walks off into the ocean, ALONE AGAIN, and goes for her trap. To her delight, she had two live lobsters in it - and AGAIN, he's nowhere to be found, back on the beach, practically crying.

She comes to the beach with two live lobsters and this man is suddenly excited and looking forward to eating - no thank you, no "good job," no apology for making fun of her and her efforts - no nothing from him. The whiney man-child gobbles up one of her lobsters and NEVER acknowledges her efforts and his childishness and laziness.

Basically ladies, this man permitted a much younger, much smaller WOMAN - to provide for him, and never even said thank you or acknowledged her "smarts" about obtaining it.

I was so damn disgusted, I changed the channel.

Unfortunately ladies, this type of personality and mindset in men is becoming commonplace - to much so, in our society, particularly in America. Lazy, overgrown man-children abound in large numbers and they have no sense of pride or shame regarding letting a woman do the work and letting a woman provide for them and letting a woman "man up" as a leader when they fail to do so.

It was thoroughly disgusting to witness and any woman that would date that man upon return from shooting that episode - is an absolute idiot. That is precisely the type of man that would not work, not keep a job and have no problem laying up on your sofa all damn day, eating your food and playing video games - while you're out busting your ass to provide for him.

And it's precisely the type of man you need to avoid - lazy, entitled, whiny, immature and lacking leadership skills and a "willingness" to be ambitious and push forward.

Just some food for thought gals ;-); July 23, 2013 at 11:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Mirror you are brilliant! stumbling upon this site has been such a blessing for me and i cant thank you enough-i instantly feel empowered after reading your posts.
I've been feeling pretty lousy because i think i messed things up with a good looking, successful guy -the problem is he's a Leo and he feels entitled and has an air of arrogance-kind of like he thinks he's a prize and can get any woman he wants plus ive heard about some of his past conquests(which didnt work out for him).. anyways long story short we met at his restaurant when i was there for a friends bday, he pursued me for a while (via text), came on really strong, i finally agreed to meet up with him -first time it didnt work out he owns a restaurant and told me to go and see him after he was done work which was later (around 10:30-11) even though i got all ready i did go, i didnt end up going inside because i realized thats not an appropriate time to meet up so i just left, of course he got mad for keeping him waiting around there for me and said something like you should just go to a club thats a better place for you of course i was offended by that and told him to lose my # (though i didnt actually mean it). We didnt text after that for a while-a week or so later he 'checked in'via text on a tornado day saying hope your making it home safely and of course i was excited to hear from him and i realize now i acted desperate and went running back to him on the first invite he made to once again meet him at his restaurant after he was done work (again very late-past 10) big mistake -so i got all ready -pretty and primped and second time around i went in and there was some sort of private party going on and he said he wasnt even done working i got kind of upset that he asked me to go and still didnt have time for me so i had a back up plan and told him i was going to meet up with a friend at the bar she was at and he told me to text him after i was done there and he would pick me up-of course i knew if i did that it would be nothing more than a booty call scenerio but i still text him later (around 1:30am) surprised i hadnt heard from him at all (if he was actually excited to see me i figured he would text or call to figure something out)so i text him to tell him i was leaving the club and going straight home because i realized meeting up with him that late at night was just not a good idea and i wasnt that kind of girl (something along those lines) -anyways he basically just said that he tried and he gave up or something and that was it.....; July 23, 2013 at 11:53 AM
Anonymous said...: ...(continued) No contact- fast forward 4 months later i see him out just this past weekend (at a club which he claims he doesnt go to) and i know he seen me too and he didnt bother saying hi or anything neither did i - i didnt even acknowledge him or his presence which i was proud of and he left not long after i seen him...anyways what troubles me is i feel like i did mess things up with this guy because he did in the beginning make efforts to see me and go for dates and now i kind of hope ill still hear from him but im pretty sure he's just over it now and thinks im too much work or just too complicated. i think it was that i put him on such a high caliber being a good looking restaurant owner and very fit..i let my insecurities and lack of confidence in myself get the best of me and ruin it..and when he seen me on saturday i dont think he felt anything at all no attraction or anything because he didnt talk to me and bolted and hasnt tried to text me.i know i should just give up on this but it sucks because it was over before it even started and im no contact month 4 and have no plans to initiate contact with him even though i remember his number that i deleted..it sucks i just feel like a total man repellent..:( after reading your articles i realized all the many mistakes i made...i was texting him back right away and too much and jumped on opportunities to see him after playing hard to get for a little while which probably confused him..ughh so complicated -anyways thanks again Mirror even though this man disappeared i held on to the hope that he would reappear and when he did -nothing :(; July 23, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror @Anonymous July 23, 9:36AM here,

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and helping me to feel that I'm on the right track...

It's definitely a journey for me developing my self-worth, emotional strength etc and also about my integrity and standing my ground not settling for less, not giving myself away, learning to assert my boundaries, becoming a woman who allows herself to be pursued and many more.

I'm sure there will be more tests to come but I feel really happy that I'm able to finally start to progress on this journey of finding myself worth.

It all started with my disappearing man and then finding your site I feel was no accident. It has enabled me to have the strength to find and exercise my own power and I can't thank you enough for that!!

I will carry on being that shiny red apple on top of the tree...and see what happens...

Thank you; July 23, 2013 at 12:49 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 23, 11:53AM,
"he owns a restaurant and told me to go and see him after he was done work which was later (around 10:30-11)"

NO way dear. NEVER go to a man like that, particularly for the FIRST date. If you do that, then it will be YOU courting/pursuing HIM from that day forward. If you don't set the tone immediately with men when dating regarding how you expect to be treated, then however that pans out on the first date, is how it will be from that day forward.

If this man wants to date you, he needs to be a real man - and make arrangements for a REAL date. Not this, "Hey, come meet me..." or "Hey, let's hook up at this place..." NOPE!

When a man says he'd like to meet you, you immediately tell him you'd love to, and that you're available on this day (at least 3 days in advance) and at this time - and inquire as to where he's planning on taking you:

"Oh, I'd love to, that sounds great! I'm available this Saturday around 7PM, where will we be going?"

None of this, "Hey, you come meet me here" crap, LOL. HE comes to YOU - period - case closed. Or he gets no date, simple as that.

"you should just go to a club thats a better place for you"

Ha! What an ass. I'd have responded with, "Yea and you. . .YOU should just pay for an escort if you're going to treat me like one."

"on the first invite he made to once again meet him at his restaurant after he was done work (again very late-past 10)"

WTF kind of lame date is that? Is this supposed to IMPRESS you??? So lazy, so lame.

"he asked me to go and still didnt have time for me"

This guy is an asshole dear :-(

"said that he tried and he gave up or something and that was it"

Gave up? What damn EFFORT did he put into this in the first place? He hasn't lifted a finger for you at all - and he's given up already? He's a loser dear, an arrogant fool.

"i did mess things up with this guy because he did in the beginning make efforts to see me and go for dates"

Are you crazy sweetie, LOL ;-) How did YOU mess things up? Huh?? And what EFFORTS did HE put into any DATE with you? All he did was make YOU come to HIM - at WORK! That's NOT A DATE dear. That's a man taking a woman for granted, not respecting her and treating her like an option instead of a priority and hoping for a hook up scenario. That's not dating, that's hooking up.

Cont. . .; July 23, 2013 at 1:33 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "it was over before it even started"

And thank God for that dear. This was starting off like a train wreck and I imagine it would've ended in the same manner. He's lazy, entitled, arrogant, foolish and selfish and immature. He doesn't have anything to offer you and even if he does, he's NOT offering. Instead, he took you for granted and treated you like shit. Any guy that expects a woman to COURT HIM like that - isn't a man if you ask me. And he has nothing to offer you by way of integrity, honor, security, etc. He's a shallow, hollow man.

"i just feel like a total man repellent"

Snap out of it dear - this guy is a JERK. A complete and TOTAL JERK of a man.

Listen honey, you deserve much better than this. A real date consists of a man planning a special evening for YOU. He doesn't make YOU work around HIS schedule, instead he phones you at least 3 days in advance, asks you out, picks YOU up to TAKE YOU OUT, and then treats you special that evening.

This guys just another entitled, lazy man seeking free and easy sex. He's no prize, trust me on that.

Be thankful this didn't pan out because I can tell you exactly how it would've gone. You'd have gone to him, he'd have sweet talked you and bragged a lot about how wonderful and busy he is, he would've pretended that he just wanted a real relationship and can't find one, he would've given you the illusion that that might happen with you, he would've gotten you into the sack with his line of BS - and then he would've been to "busy" to ever see you again.

That's what you missed out on - and as you can see, it's nothing special at all :-); July 23, 2013 at 1:33 PM
Anonymous said...: OMG Mirror i love you! your response made me chuckle and i thank you for your kind words and helping me to realize that i shouldn't be placing all the blame soley on myself for this assclown's actions- not to defend him or anything but he did suggest dinners and going to hot yoga prior to me actually meeting up with him at his restaurant but at that point i was taking my time and playing a little hard to get so that's where i feel like i messed up because he did suggest real date like things but again it was all via text no phone calls-in fact he asked ME when i was going to call him! LAZY!!and soo arrogant when i seen him out one night on my birthday at a club every once in a while i would be checkin my hair in the mirror and he said something like oh your like me you like to check yourself out a lot LOL i think he's more high maintenance than me! i forgot to mention and i hate to admit this but i did send him a few sexy pics of myself not nude or anything but maybe a little provocative i'm ashamed to admit that because i think that set the tone too and maybe contradicted me telling him i'm not that kind of girl...so that was something i regret doing but he asked so i gave him what he wanted BIG mistake-im just glad all he got was a few pictures and NOTHING more..and when he was coming on strong in the beginning i would send him random pictures of cute babies cause i love babies he would say something like our babies would be cuter! LOL i should of figured him out from there on.. oh and yes your right about him talking about all his many achievements -he told me that 21 should be my new favorite number because that was his number when he was picked to play on our cities football team-i later found out that he didn't make it on the team which i figured because hes 34 which is usually when these players are retired from my understanding and i heard that restaurant of his that i went to (actually he co-owns it but never mentioned that) closed down -he still co-owns two in the city but he's soon to be 35 and single so having money and a brand new expensive beamer(recent purchase i heard he made) isn't everything i guess-i also heard he's little in the middle LOL and from friends who know girls who have dated him i heard they said that he's narcissistic and a total player-and even though you haven't met him mirror it seems like you already know exactly who he is and your right i didn't miss out on anything hes not that special and chances are it wouldn't have worked out and i think he was initially interested because his last gf was the same ethnicity and he said he really loved the culture and food and the way we look blah blah anyways thanks again mirror <3; July 23, 2013 at 2:45 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 23, 2:45PM,
"i hate to admit this but i did send him a few sexy pics of myself not nude or anything but maybe a little provocative. .he asked so i gave him what he wanted"

Careful with that behavior dear. I'm not trying to beat you up over it, but it's not the path to a healthy relationship as it destroys the man's respect for you (secretly).

Many men "test" with this - meaning - lots of men, without even intentionally doing it, "label" women into little boxes and they do this very early on, making lots of snap erroneous judgments about women. So when they request these types of things, lots of times, it's a test. And what they want to know is, do you get the "potential girlfriend" label - or do you get the "good time gal, potential F buddy" label?

And your response to that request decides the label they chose for you - and it also determines how they will treat you from that day forward - either as potential girlfriend material or F buddy "hook up" material.

You're the one who controls a man's impression of you, so always make sure you're communicating the impression you want to make instead of focusing on "pleasing" the man.

"i would send him random pictures of cute babies cause i love babies he would say something like our babies would be cuter"

Yea, that's a BS line meant to give you the illusion that someday he might have babies with you - even though he barely knows you. . .sigh, LOL.

"having money and a brand new expensive beamer(recent purchase i heard he made) isn't everything i guess"

No, what is "everything" when it comes to dating is a man with integrity, honesty, values, morals, ethics, a romantic side, an open heart and a "willingness" to lead and be a man.

"they said that he's narcissistic and a total player"

Gee, never would've guessed, LOL ;-)

"even though you haven't met him mirror it seems like you already know exactly who he is"

Hone your skills dear and you too will be able to "have someone's number" immediately as well :-)

"i didn't miss out on anything hes not that special"

Right. You missed out on a lame, crappy sexual encounter with a narcissistic player "man boy" - boohoo, LOL ;-)

This was a blessing in disguise dear - do not grieve it, celebrate it.; July 23, 2013 at 3:09 PM
Anonymous said...: "Right. You missed out on a lame, crappy sexual encounter with a narcissistic player "man boy"" hahahaha you truly made my day! thank you for responding.. GOD BLESS YOU -keep doing what you do because it makes a positive impact in so many ways
xo; July 23, 2013 at 4:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

Can I ask you a question on one of the comments you replied to a lady about provocative pictures:

'Many men "test" with this - meaning - lots of men, without even intentionally doing it, "label" women into little boxes and they do this very early on, making lots of snap erroneous judgments about women. So when they request these types of things, lots of times, it's a test. And what they want to know is, do you get the "potential girlfriend" label - or do you get the "good time gal, potential F buddy" label?'And your response to that request decides the label they chose for you - and it also determines how they will treat you from that day forward - either as potential girlfriend material or F buddy "hook up" material'

I had this request from someone to send some pictures he didn't say nude but I could tell what he was getting at ;) I said that it's not the type of thing I would do and he said ok don't worry about it.

What I want to clarify from your comment that if a man asks you for photos does it mean they are a player and just out for sex because the asking for photos doesn't give a great impression. Or can it be like you say they're just testing you out as girlfriend material?

I did think that he could be testing me out and trying to push my boundaries but I think he would have enjoyed them anyway if I had sent them, so it would have been a win-win for him ;)

thank you; July 24, 2013 at 11:53 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 11:53AM,
"if a man asks you for photos does it mean they are a player and just out for sex because the asking for photos doesn't give a great impression."

That depends. Asking for general photos is understandable. However, if the man is insinuating the he wants/prefers sexual photos - that's wholly inappropriate behavior from a man.

The minute a man asks for nude photos, you can deem him a player in my opinion. He's comfortable with that, meaning, he does it often. Additionally, it's disrespectful to the woman and a true gentleman would NEVER request that of a woman.

When these men are asking for this stuff from YOU, you can bet your bottom dollar they're making the same requests of other women as well. And men like that end up with a phone chalk full of pornographic images, some of which men share openly on "amateur" porn sites as well as forward and share them with many of their male friends (as trophies of sorts) for bragging rights.

If you do this as a woman when dating, and you finally meet the guys male friends, if they're smirking - it's because they TOO have already seen you naked. I've seen it happen a million times. And I've also seen men have nothing BUT a sexting relationship with a woman - she provides a constant stream of free porn while he sits at home, doesn't put any effort into her at all and. . .well, you know what he's busy doing with those images - sharing them with other men, using them for personal sessions with himself, showing them to others as bragging rights and uploading them onto amateur porn sites without the woman's knowledge.

As a woman, if you want respect from men and proper treatment, then YOU have to carry yourself with respect and treat yourself properly - if that's how you want others to treat you.

That behavior can be both a test and an indication of a player. And in my opinion, both are bad. You don't want to be with a man that's using manipulation to "test" you to find out who you are. Instead, you want him "engaging" with you in a genuine and authentic manner to find that out (calling, talking on the phone, taking you out on dates, etc.)

Heavy sexting and sexual images are just bad all the way around in my opinion. Playfulness is one thing, raunchy is another.

Intimate things should be done and exchanged in person (genuine) to make a true connection with others - they shouldn't take place on a cell phone (disingenuine).; July 24, 2013 at 2:08 PM
Anonymous said...: "You don't want to be with a man that's using manipulation to "test" you to find out who you are. Instead, you want him "engaging" with you in a genuine and authentic manner to find that out"
yet another light bulb moment for me Mirror -this is something else (mr restauarant owner did) back when we were texting and i didnt get any texts from him for a few days he eventually text me asking why he didnt hear from me and actually told me i shouldnt play games..ME play games when that's precisely what he was doing! (shifting blame) i sure know to how pick em! lol; July 24, 2013 at 3:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi mirror
I've got a guy who is doing the disappearing act on me, we went out a few times and I slept with him, I texted him a casual how are you text about 6 weeks ago and he has ignored me, I've not reached out to him again I want to but I know I shouldn't, do guys know when they are treating you poorly? Do u think he is thinking about me or is he waiting for me to reach out to him.
This is treatment is just awful.; July 24, 2013 at 3:37 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 3:16PM,
"i didnt get any texts from him for a few days he eventually text me asking why he didnt hear from me and actually told me i shouldnt play games..ME play games when that's precisely what he was doing!"

Here's what a guy like that is really saying when he says that:

"Why aren't you chasing me? This usually works on women but it's not working on you - why is that?"

"i sure know to how pick em!"

We've all been there dear. The good thing is - now you know how to kick em too (to the curb), LOL ;-); July 24, 2013 at 4:55 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 3:37PM,
"do guys know when they are treating you poorly?"

Absolutely dear, men are NOT stupid but rather, extremely well versed instinctually regarding the emotional tendencies of women (and exactly how to manipulate that to their advantage.)

"Do u think he is thinking about me or is he waiting for me to reach out to him."

Ugh, I really hate to say this but. .men who pull the "bump and dump" generally resurface at some point in time. .when it's your turn in their rotation of women again :-(

Don't dwell on the negative here dear, keep yourself actively distracted and do things that help you gain back your self esteem and build your confidence - don't give him any more of your energy and attention that he doesn't deserve.; July 24, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

With reference to your comment below- what if you think the guy may be a narcissist as they have no conscience so they wouldn't necessarily have the facility to realise they are treating you poorly??

"do guys know when they are treating you poorly?"

'Absolutely dear, men are NOT stupid but rather, extremely well versed instinctually regarding the emotional tendencies of women (and exactly how to manipulate that to their advantage.)'

Also, with this disappearing guy I had - I'm wondering if he was a narcissist or not. As in the beginning he would apologise for not getting back to me - say he'd fallen asleep when he'd got my text and he'd text me the next day to explain. However, when it came down to the major disappearing stunt and he ignored me and it ended abruptly with no warning and it's gone over the NC period now. My line of thinking is that if he can acknowledge the fact and having the respect to get back to me over a something minor i.e not replying to my text that evening and then having the respect to explain the next day. Then he must have some conscious the fact that he's been totally disrespectful in ignoring me and leaving me high and dry with no explanation or apology and ending the relationship suddenly with his silence. It just doesn't make sense I don't know if he has a conscience or not :(

I'm just trying to process what has happened and I know I will never know, I don't need an explanation but I guess if I thought that if he was feeling bad about the way he treated me and had a conscience it would make me feel better but I don't know whether it is wishful thinking. I just don't know how you can close the door on someone in this manner and not have a conscience about it...

and I feel like I've been lead up the bloody garden path...

Thank you; July 24, 2013 at 6:20 PM
Gemini 50 said...: Hi All,
Well, here’s an update on my online dating escapade.

I had explained that Court Officer (C O) had messaged me a 2nd time, and I was dying to open it. No new title to the message, just the original title. But I was in control and I ignored it.

Day 3 he sends another mssg with the title, “Apology.” This one I opened and he apologized for his behavior and said he was just trying to figure out, “how a guy like me gets to meet a woman like you” and, “screw this dating site, and screw facebook…” and he really is a nice guy, etc. etc.

So, I thought of what Ms. Mirror and Peter said about practicing until behavior becomes natural, and then thought, here’s my chance to practice more and see what happens.

So, I respond with a mssg; we mssg a couple times, and graduated to talking on the phone 2x.

Today he sends me a pic of him at work in his court officer uniform… (he’s looking better) lol But it’s feeling like this guy needs SO MUCH attn! But, I’m also thinking, he’s really trying to keep MY attn., he’s being consistent, so just keep going with this.

So, now it’s tonight. He golfs on a league the next town over from me. (Yep, guess what’s coming, lol – a lot of practicing opportunities for me!)

C O texts me when I get home that his friend (who has been golfing with team and fighting cancer battle) isn’t expected to make it thru the night and the group is meeting after game at bar a few miles from my house.

I respond that I am sorry about his friend. (And I know what’s coming next.)

Court Officer (C O) > Come visit? (Now, I haven’t met this man. He hasn’t asked me out, and he wants me to go to this bar on a moment’s notice to meet him and his golfing buddies.) haha – I am soooo going to practice getting comfortable saying “No.”

(As info here: I couldn’t sleep last night, was up at 2 AM, worked 9 hrs today, drove 2 hrs back/forth to work, and have to be back to work tomorrow @ 5:30 to head to NYC for the day, AND have to go over paperwork tonight to prepare. So, I am exhausted.)

Continued; July 24, 2013 at 8:21 PM
Gemini 50 said...: Continued 2 of 2

So here’s our texts tonight:

C O >Come visit?

Me > I don’t think so.

C O > I’m kinda serious (and then offers a different bar not too far from me)

Me > Kinda serious ?? No thank you. I am exhausted and have to be in NYC early.

C O > Ok – not joking, serious! Meet for one drink? I am solo in 5 minutes.

Me (I can’t believe this guy) > Thank you, but no. I am exhausted.

C O > Ok…

C O 2 minutes later > Handshake?

Me (I don’t understand the handshake) > ??

C O > Meet? Say hello? Handshake?

Me > Not tonite.

C O > Rain check I hope. How long will you be awake?

Me > I don’t know. I have paperwork still to prepare for tomorrow. Drive safe.

C O > Grr!! Can’t wait to see your face!

Me (thinking WTF is THAT? Haha – then remember he has asked me several times to text him a pic of myself – not a nudey, but I get the feeling he wants to see if the pic from the online site is current. But I have declined. No interest in that. So, that’s probably where the “see your face,” comes in.)

I respond to his last text > too funny. Just a regular gal.

C O > Ok regular gal… meet for a hug?

Me > ??

C O > Lol. Was still hoping to see you before I left

Me > Such late notice? Really? And I really am drunk tired. Not safe for me to drive.

C O > You are or me? I can drive Ms. Brockovich

Me (I guess that’s my new name because I’m being strong – I’ll take it as a complement) > I am not drinking, but I m so tired it is like I am drunk.

C O > quick hello?

Me > Go home. Drive safe.

C O > ok

Then 5 minutes later C O > Still can’t wait to meet you! Good Night

As I typed that exchange, I can hear Ms. Mirror saying, “You don’t have to explain yourself to a man!!” (and probably she’s thinking a few swear words in there too! Lol)

But I’m happy with that exchange. I am happy I said no, and did it with confidence and humor. I just don’t understand why he hasn’t asked me out on a specific date. Hmmm, it’s all interesting.

Ok Ms. Mirror and Peter… critique away.

Oh, and there’s another guy who wrote me and I responded to, and we’ve been mssging just quick mssgs this week… but he hasn’t put his pic up on the site which makes me wonder. But I like our banter.

I have “less than 4 days” left on the site. I think I’ll have a little celebration for myself when it’s done!

CHEERS! (nothing in hand tonight -- I'm too tired!) ;); July 24, 2013 at 8:26 PM
Anonymous said...: i wish i had a little mirror on my right shoulder guiding me along the way because there are times when i think to myself what would mirror say or do in this situation...i would like to get to the point where i don't need to stop to think about it because i'll just know...my question is how do you flirt with guys and show your interest in a way that isn't sleazy and too obvious that you're attracted i have no problem complimenting other females because i know that it will make them feel good and they wont be thinking ''she wants me'' but can you tell a guy that you think hes attractive and funny or dresses nice etc or is that seen as you coming on to him because youre enamored and wanting him...one guy i had a crush on at work actually described another female coworker to me as having ''hungry eyes'' for him lol i always kept that in mind when i was talking to him because even though he was young, fit,attractive and tall i never wanted him to think i had hungry eyes for him and that i was envisioning him as my prey lol so any advice mirror? i always tried to act coy with him and when he tried to say things like what are you gonna do without me when i leave (he was a summer student) and his last day was a few weeks ago :( it seemed he was almost fishing for compliments at times and so many times i just wanted to give in and tell him what he wanted or expected to hear but i didn't because then the mystery would be dissolved and he would think to himself yep i knew it she wants me too..lol i guess it starts young because he was 7 years my junior! he seemed to be into playful teasing as we both would tease each other-although its not really my nature to insult people even if im joking around but i just mirrored his behavior and i think he may have gotten a kick out of that! your thoughts??; July 24, 2013 at 9:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Good Evening Mirror:

Well, I've been in a relationship with this man for about 5 months and we have slept over at each other's place (few and far between) when the kids aren't around. (They have been on vacation with the ex-spouses and at camps, at various times this summer, simultaneously. When that happens, we spend one night together. Maybe 2 nights, at the most, in a week.) And that suits us both fine... we have jobs and other things to do, so an entire week, would be a bit much.
Well, we just had our first fight a few weeks ago and then mended it. However, I noticed that he didn't ask me to spend the night when his kids were out of town (and mine were with my ex that weekend)and we went out. I mentioned that to him - that it hurt my feelings and I felt like we "were just dating" and I didn't feel like a girlfriend - this is after he asked me to come in and we started to kiss [passionately] goodnight. He said he didn't even think about it and "Yes, I should spend the night", so I did; all seemed well.
Well, this week - same thing again. Our kids are both gone for an entire night, on the same evening; we went out and he didn't ask me beforehand to spend the night(like he has in the past, so I could pack). However, he did say after dinner, "Hey, want to come back to my house and have a drink?" (And I knew what that meant...)
Well, I just couldn't... I feel diminished to a "date" now and I just cannot sleep with someone if I am unsure about us. I ended up telling him that I feel like we are back-tracking and not moving forward since this argument and it doesn't feel good. He once again plays this "innocent act" like he didn't even think about it and I'm making more of it than there is. And then also said I don't need an invitation to sleep over, just say that I want to and he's fine with it.
The problem is- if he suggests picking me up, I have no way home the next morning, nor do I have lingerie to sleep in. That's fine, but in the past, he would have asked me over and I would have had a little bag packed and drive myself over. That's why I think he's not being truthful about his intentions and just saying it's fine because he knows it will upset me if it doesn't happen. I feel (and it may be subconscious)that he's trying not to be as intimate as we once were together.
What do you think mirror and how should I handle it?
Your advice is greatly appreciated...; July 24, 2013 at 11:18 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 6:20PM,
"It just doesn't make sense I don't know if he has a conscience or not"

A narcissist knows the difference between right and wrong. The lack of conscience simply makes them immune to "feeling" anything regarding it. They know they're wrong, but they don't "feel" bad because of it.

Don't bother attempting to process what has happened, that only gives him more of your time and energy. Instead, focus on yourself. Treat yourself well, buy yourself some new clothes, get a makeover and a new hairstyle or hair color, pick up an old hobby again, exercise - do whatever you have to do to distract yourself from your thoughts, cease your anxiety and help you to push forward.; July 25, 2013 at 8:51 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50,
Excellent dear - how did it make you feel, to be in control of yourself and the situation to such an extent? ;-)

This one's pushy dear, and a bit inconsiderate - so yes, he's going to be excellent practice, LOL.

That's my main observation about him at this point - his lack of understanding, his inappropriate invitation for a first date, and his pushiness. So prepare yourself for more of that (and the fact that he could blow a gasket again via any frustration he feels as his failed inappropriate attempts.)

However, you handled it perfect. Don't put yourself out for a man when you're not in the mind to do so. Meaning, never jump out of bed to get ready to run and see one, never accept rude last minute invitations, never accept late night invitations, etc. Don't compromise yourself for a man.

And in this case you didn't. And, now this is pure speculation on my part, but I think a year or two ago, the pressure that this man was placing you under to accommodate him, two years ago, I think you may have put yourself out simply to please him. I could be wrong, only you know that, but if that's the case dear - give yourself a big pat on the back because here you are, years later - and there are changes, you are making progress.

You are protecting yourself, you are setting boundaries early and up front, you are not compromising yourself and you are not suffering any feelings of guilt or remorse from doing so.

Perfect :-); July 25, 2013 at 9:21 AM
Lady Leo said...: Ms Gemini50:

What a great share you gave! You're doing it right! You are "teaching" this man how to treat a LADY. Bravo to you! He is just using the only skills he knows in dealing with women. They must've worked in the past but now he's learning new skills. You're his teacher! He very well could be a good guy he just needs fine tuning. You are showing yourself to be a valuable woman and as such piquing his interest and earning his respect. He WILL step up I believe because you are raising the vibration level to the top. If he isn't a lazy player he will rise with you.

Well done, my lady!!; July 25, 2013 at 9:23 AM
Lady Leo said...: Here is a little update:

It's now day 3 that I have initiated any contact with Taurus, nor he me. The last texting we did was him apologizing for not answering me call when I made an effort to invite him for ice cream. (A friend suggested I keep it light and fun and step back from the drama). I left a simple voice message saying hello, not extending the invite. He texted later to say he didn't feel like talking, that his weekend with his birth father was rough and emotional, and it had nothing to do with me and he'd explain later. I replied that I understood and to take care of himself. He thanked me and that was it.

I gather from all that's gone on and the photos of he sent me over the weekend he is thoroughly confused as to what he wants so I'm leaving him to his process. his confusion and mixed messages is totally affecting me and confusing and hurting me, so I must let go. I am no longer resisting "what is" and accepting that this may not be the relationship I thought it could be. He is in early sobriety and that's a challenge for him in and of itself, so to add me to the mix, is a huge challenge. So I am focusing on me.

To that end, I have decided to LIVE. I accepted a coffee date yesterday with the arries cop from a few months ago. Not interested in him romantically but he is fun and might be a nice friendship. we both agreed there was no chemistry on the phone, so friends it is. When we met at Starbucks, I noticed a "twinkle" in his eye and demeanor as if he felt a connection. He later told me he did. He invited me to dinner last night and I went. It was a lovely meal and nice convo. We talked all about HIM! LOL...Told me his love life history, how he is afraid of love and afraid of being left by a woman. He is so distrusting but wants to be in love. Clearly I won't take a chance on him, even if I felt chemistry. But it was nice to be social and out of my head for the time being.

On the way home, I thought only of the Taurus. My heart is with him, but my head at least is clear and accepting that I cannot control the outcome, I cannot change his thinking or "teach" him what I think he needs to know. I am leaving that to God...to time...to silence. And as MOA always says, letting the quietness of me being away send whatever message he needs to know about how he feels and what he wants from me.

Just for today, I am letting the universe be the ruler that it is.; July 25, 2013 at 9:34 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 11:18PM,
"I feel (and it may be subconscious)that he's trying not to be as intimate as we once were together. What do you think mirror and how should I handle it?"

Well, I don't think you should display emotion over it (express your unhappiness, question him, etc.) Instead, mirror exactly what his behavior is indicating. Meaning, if he's acting blase' about you spending the night - you do the same. No questions, no emotions, no unhappiness - simply "be okay" with it.

If he doesn't mention a sleepover up front, then you don't plan for one. And you don't breath one word about it during the evening. And when he invites you home with him - YOU REFUSE. You state calmly and in a very matter of fact tone that you simply didn't plan for it.

Do that several times. Be okay with his lack of an invitation for a sleepover and be SILENT about it and REFUSE his "take you home" offers.

And you know what will most likely happen?

HE will begin to QUESTION YOU as to why this is not happening and why you are okay with it, LOL ;-)

You see, right now you're giving him the exact reaction he expects - questioning, mentioning it, etc. This reassures him that he has nothing to WORRY ABOUT with YOU - while it gives YOU something to worry about. Flip the script and give him some food for thought, let him worry. Let him worry that his lack of attention is causing you to slip away potentially. He can't reach for you unless you're moving away from him - so pull back ;-)

Anytime a man begins treating you poorly or "different" - you don't PUSH forward (towards him), you PULL back (towards YOU).

So cease expecting these sleepovers and cease planning for them and cease questioning or discussing them altogether. When he invites you home, REFUSE. Do this several times and eventually, HE will notice the change in YOU - and YOU will be giving HIM something to worry about ;-); July 25, 2013 at 9:43 AM
Anonymous said...: Mirror:

I have a guy who I was seeing for a little while a few months ago reappeared. We hung out for a couple of weeks and had a great time. Then we slept together and two days later I got the good old lets just be friends I dont want a relationship BS. He had just gotten out of a relationship a few weeks prior. Well I cut contact and he ended up back with his girlfriend. Last Saturday I received a friend request and Facebook message from him asking why I had deleted him after not hearing from him for almost 3 months. He said he was so sorry for what happened and he missed me, bla bla bla. He said he was hoping to see me again.Him and his girlfriend apparently broke up AGAIN last week. We have mutual friends so I eneded up hanging out with him Monday. Again we had a great time and he texted me he had a blast. Well now its back to silence. Its only been 3 days of silence, but he was pushing hard the days prior so I am back to state of confusion and would like some advice on how to handle this moving forward because I am aggrevated. I even deactivated my facebook because I am sick of these guys just popping in and out. And then also he can't see what I am doing. This is so annoying and frustrating. Thanks. Michelle; July 25, 2013 at 9:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Okay, mirror... thank you for clarity on the sleepover situation. Just one other question - I have a friend who has offered to let me use her house next weekend, as she will be out of town. (She knows it's hard for us to have alone time together with our kids around and we've done this before, as well. The kids are old enough to stay by themselves one night anyway - teenagers who drive.)

I haven't mentioned it to him because of what's been going on...but I hate to give up an opportunity like this. Neither one of us could stay the whole weekend because of kids and jobs, but I thought one night would be awesome! Should I ask him?; July 25, 2013 at 11:15 AM
KK said...: Mirror, first just wanted to thank you for posting the 'apple' quote - I am looking at myself now too as the shiny apple. We all should.

Something is happening - since the beginning of this week, I find I'm being more logical and not as emotional as I was before, instead of analyzing and thinking and draining myself basically, I've just been stating facts instead and the list is far too long. Really letting go of the relationship responsibility that wasn't even mine to begin with. The issues are HIS problem, not mine, and not for me to 'work' on or try to figure out. I'm busy 'working' on myself instead. I feel like I'm understanding these concepts even more everyday and have attempted to practice them, and still am. I'm believing in it - I received proof at one time that it was working. I'm feeling more confident, I don't feel anxious right now, I haven't looked at his profile or anything lately (or obsessively) - and if I do get or feel an urge, I make myself walk away or find something to distract me. I did peek Monday I think, nothing really new, although his mom did put something up about 'watching what you say, thinking before you speak or you may come off as an asshole or a jerk' - LOL yup! She knows what's up too. He's probably kicking himself right now. For numerous things... and guess what, he's stuck now with those 'I love you', mushy posts that girl made and picture he put up of her - unless you know the 'tricks' to remove stuff from your mobile device (his in particular), you're screwed. Who knows the 'in's and out's'? - This girl right here! Am I gonna help him? NO - should've thought things through before you acted on it.

Something that distracted me last night though was a reality show called Tough Love - a dating 'boot camp' type show, where the women are coached by a MAN. I stumbled upon it but I'm hooked now. Last night's episode was all about 'non-verbal' cues/communication, the ladies were tricked into thinking the dates all spoke foreign languages (men are not women and women are not men) but it was a test to see how they would communicate and do it effectively and then got the men's thoughts on the women afterwards. Very funny but also very eye opening too - goes along with the theme of 'action speaks louder than words', 'it's not what you say, it's what you do' or 'it's not what you say - but how you say it' - by not saying anything at all, men are visual creatures, etc. I'll definitely be watching that show every week!
Another thing regarding FB - just doing my own thing as usual, but he can't see as much as he could before. I posted something he will able to see this morning (funny) and 2 friends (male) seemed to like it, and one in particular seems to be circling back to my profile once a week. Maybe I'm becoming more 'attractive' or something or emitting a certain 'vibe', men don't frequent my page very often so this is a bit new. But I know Pisces likes to creep - he gave that away already, he'll see what's going on and who's doing what and it'll stir up something - to me, these are just friends (platonic) and to him, he doesn't know anything, so he'll probably feel threatened/jealous and competitive again. I didn't plan it though, just happened all on it's own.; July 25, 2013 at 11:26 AM
KK said...: Oh and another guy has messaged me via the online dating site I'm on - very brief, quick exchange, he informed me he was at a concert (messaging from his phone) - what am I supposed to say to that? "Oh cool" ??? (boring) not really 'response worthy' so I read it and just didn't bother doing anything else, then I see that he viewed or visited my profile the following morning after I didn't answer LOL (yay me) - They will check you out numerous times and you can obviously be notified of this, they're expecting you to chase after them. DON'T DO IT! - They keep that up for a while, keep looking at you, then finally build up the courage (or whatever) to message you.; July 25, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Anonymous said...: Sorry.. sleepover lady here...pushed, "publish" and forgot to mention something. I have considered offering him space to think about things. I fear that maybe he is going to break up with me -(could just be my own insecurities; nothing going on, other than what I've mentioned here) and I feel it's better to be the dumpee than the dumped.; July 25, 2013 at 11:35 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Michelle,
Don't deactivate your entire FB account because of a man - the remedy to that? DON'T friend these guys on FB to begin with, LOL. And if you already have, don't unfriend him (unless that's what you prefer to do) - instead, block him from seeing your photos, updates, etc.

"would like some advice on how to handle this moving forward because I am aggrevated."

He's done. He had TWO chances and he acted the same in both - he's exhibiting a pattern here. So just recognize it for what it is and move on. Cease contact, cease replying and leave him to his own.

I hate to say this dear, but he's using you. He's using you as a crutch regarding his failed relationship. Instead of him just dealing with that and walking through the fallout, he's exhibiting "escapist" behavior by running straight into the arms of another woman. When that happens, it will NEVER work. Because eventually, his feelings catch up with him, he's forced to deal with them, and off he goes, forcing YOU to experience HIS relationship failure.

Forget it. He's a lost cause. He needs a solid year or so on his own to deal with his own problems and emotions without using others to benefit him in that.

If you stay, you'll be the "rebound" relationship again - not worth it dear. He's got "stuff" to work out and you cannot afford to suffer the fallout of his "stuff."; July 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Sleepover Lady,
"Should I ask him?"

No, do not PURSUE this man in an attempt to convince him this is a working relationship. HE has to WANT this too and you coming up with suggestions in an attempt to try and control the situation or steer the relationship will only backfire and continue to reassure him that YOU are working at this while HE glides by doing nothing and acting blase' about it.

And if you do decide to go ahead and do that anyway - don't do it unless you are positive that you can handle any potential rejection received from the invitation. And even if he says yes, be prepared for the fact that he may act strange and "checked out" over that weekend because he may not want to be there :-(

"I have considered offering him space to think about things. . .I feel it's better to be the dumpee than the dumped"

If that's the case, feel free to do so but DON'T tell him you're doing this - don't explain your "feelings" to him and don't explain what you're doing.

Just do as I originally stated in my first response and simply TAKE THE SPACE YOURSELF and then let HIM worry about figuring out WHY that's happened and how HE played a role in it.

Men don't respond to all of the emotional talk and feeling sharing and over-explanations that women offer them. The language of men is that of ACTION (which is why they send their messages via disappearing and ACTIVELY walking away).

So if you want a man to "hear" you, you state your case with ACTION and save your breath on the WORDS ;-)

Pull back if you feel that way dear - and don't explain why. That way, HE has to put some THOUGHT into this HIMSELF, instead of you doing all of the worrying and strategizing here.; July 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 24, 9:19PM,
"how do you flirt with guys and show your interest in a way that isn't sleazy and too obvious that you're attracted"

You do so via body language and provoking positive emotions in others - which makes them want to experience "more" of that (you):

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/04/dating-tips-persuasion-influence.html

Subtlety and feminine wiles dear ;-)

"can you tell a guy that you think hes attractive and funny or dresses nice etc or is that seen as you coming on to him because youre enamored and wanting him"

If done with one brief, casual compliment and then you change the subject immediately afterwards, yes, you plant the "seed" in his mind. But if you shower this man and are over the top in how you do this and to what extent, then it looks desperate. There's a fine line. Again, subtlety and feminine wiles dear.

"he seemed to be into playful teasing as we both would tease each other"

Yes, men respond well to a bit of "bitchy" play, LOL as it appeals to their love of "challenge and competition" (sports like in nature).

"its not really my nature to insult people even if im joking"

Men love that dear. They love it when a woman takes a playful jab at them. You know why? Because she's exhibiting her "true self," she's not holding back and attempting to be little miss perfect and she's showing that she's not afraid of offending him. It's very enticing to men, a bit of "sass" in a woman, and they respond well to it.

What they don't want is another woman sitting there, smiling like a stepford wife, trying very hard to be "perfect" - that's what most women do with men and to them, it amounts to "boring" because they see it time and time again.

They don't want "boring" - they want "excitement" - a challenge ;-)

"i just mirrored his behavior and i think he may have gotten a kick out of that!"

Exactly - see what I mean, LOL ;-); July 25, 2013 at 12:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror.

I really enjoyed this site!!! Wish it was around a few yrs ago after my divorce. I was married for 17 yrs and started dating about a yr ago. So I'm pretty new to this dating scene and I must say, it's VERY different. :( Anyway, I'll try to make this short. I met this guy online back in Nov 2012 and everything seemed to be going well at first and then about 3 mos later, the games began (disappearing/reappearing, not responding to txts or answering calls, etc). Anyway, I'm currently using NC on him, it's been 21 days (the longest that we've gone w/o speaking) and I feel I'm finally starting to detach from him emotionally. :) The hardest part of it though, is wondering why he hasn't reached out by now.. kinda makes me feel like he never really cared. :(
In the past, I would sometimes reach out after a few days to check his pulse and he would say that he's just been very busy or he would reappear when I didn't reach out and make it seem like it was all my fault that he wasn't around (asking me why he hasn't heard from me). :-/ Each time this would happen, I would get all emotional, etc., which now I know was the wrong thing to do. :-/ He would pacify me for a little while, then would end up doing the same thing all over again. Anyway, after his last disappearing act (3 wks ago), I got fed up and decided to just walk away without saying one word. At this point, I don't feel that he'll resurface again because I think he's just a spoiled ass brat that's use to getting his way. I don't think he even knows what his role is and that is very unfortunate. smh
Oh well, if he does comes back, I'll be a totally different woman and he WILL learn how to play his position or get cut from the team of ME for good! ;)

~ S.B.; July 25, 2013 at 2:41 PM
Anonymous said...: thanks for your reply Mirror i guess flirting can be fun and easy when you're just being your true self.
If a guy doesnt approach you is it ok for you to approach him and talk to him whether it be at work, school, the club etc? i guess if you're not interested in him as more than a friend than its fine for you to approach first and chat but if you are interested/attracted then you should wait for him to approach you??
Does it depend if he's someone you kind of know or have talked to before then can you approach?
what about someone you've never met before??how do you get his attention and get him to notice you other than looking pretty and feminine?
is there a rule of thumb for approaching different categories of men? i just hate when guys call me a snob or think im full of myself and say things like "oh what you cant even say hi" usually this happens in a club when im out with my girlfriends and ive either met or talked to them before
but if you've never met him before and want him to notice you can you stare at him- not creepily but just make some eye contact?or should you just keep walking along act very aloof as if you never noticed him at all? your take??; July 25, 2013 at 5:01 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @S.B.
"I don't feel that he'll resurface again because I think he's just a spoiled ass brat that's use to getting his way."

Oh, you'd be surprised dear. We've had reports (very similar to Bigfoot sightings, LOL) of men resurfacing up to a year later.

The 30 day mark is a biggie for a potential "sighting," as are the two and three month marks as well. Then it jumps to about six to eight month and then a year or so.

You never know with these guys - just as their behavior when dating becomes strange, so does their behavior after they "poof" LOL ;-); July 25, 2013 at 5:18 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 25, 5:18PM,
"is it ok for you to approach him and talk to him whether it be at work, school, the club etc?"

Yes, just don't ask him out. Instead, use body language and eye contact to convey your interest - then see if he steps up to the challenge.

"Does it depend if he's someone you kind of know or have talked to before then can you approach?"

If you've slept with him before, don't approach. If you do, when you walk away, you'll hear him telling his buddies, "See, I knew it - she wants me" LOL. Otherwise, no it doesn't matter, as long as it's only conversation and not you dropping hint after hint in an obvious manner and/or you asking him out.

"what about someone you've never met before??how do you get his attention and get him to notice you other than looking pretty and feminine?"

Studies show that relationships where the MAN expressed interest in the WOMAN last longer. As a result, YOU don't pick him, let HIM pick you. Otherwise, a half interested man will date you and sleep with you, then disappear (because he wasn't really attracted to you in the first place.)

"i just hate when guys call me a snob or think im full of myself and say things like "oh what you cant even say hi"

That's manipulation and it's a man attempting to "guilt" YOU into pursuing HIM (and doing 90% of the work to get things off the ground). Lazy men don't make for good lovers, husbands or boyfriends.

"can you stare at him- not creepily but just make some eye contact?"

Staring, no. However, studies show that a gaze held for 3 seconds or longer indicates interest.

In general, it's not good for a woman to be "on the prowl" so-to-speak. Let men come to you -because the ones who do are usually genuinely interested (and are compelled to take ACTION as a result of their interest) and have a much greater chance of forming a relationship with.; July 25, 2013 at 5:26 PM
Anonymous said...: thank you -once again enlightened :); July 25, 2013 at 5:36 PM
Lady Leo said...: The universe delivered...

The Sag is an insecure player. Gotta make this short. I texted him last week when I was in pain about the taurus. He didnt reply till today, 10 days later. Said "Sorry about last week, very jealous girlfriend".

I didnt reply so he sent email 20 mins later. Two hours later I replied with a pic of me and "LOL". Sent the pic to F* with him and see if he was reaching out to "play" with me. he replies "text ya monday, gotta go". So YEAH! That told me. He is off work next 3 days and cant text while she is around. I checked his FB and saw a new woman added who is also friends on FB with his sister and 2 kids. Her name is the same name as the woman he played the game with me when he disappeared. So, he is now playing on her. He is seeking attention from me to feed his ego. Its been 6 months since he left and now I know the truth. He left me for her. I replied to him with "nah". Like dont bother...Im not playing.

And, cus the universe is powerful, just as this was going on, the taurus texts me after 3 days. Asking how I am, saying he is out of his funk and hopes Im well. Ive not replied and not sure I will. Im in a funk now of my own. Just wanted to post this for us all to know....when they leave and disappear, there IS a reason and the reason will be known...eventually. This doesnt devestate me but it does hurt. There is a message in all of this, Im just being still until I feel my way through it. Take care of yourselves, friends!!; July 25, 2013 at 7:56 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lady Leo,
Honey, don't play games or you're only going to get hurt. Stuff like that will eventually backfire. And you seem confused and as if you're acting out because of it. At this point, it may be best for you not to date. Because no matter where you turn, you're "stirring things up" and turning each encounter into a game of sorts. I say that with concern, so bear with me here :-)

Recently, you've been writing about the Taurus. You reach out to him, he reaches back, you remain silent, then you reach out again, then he sends you photos and shares a genuine moment, then you send him a pic of yourself in a strapless dress to arouse jealousy - and on it goes.

In the midst of all of that, YOU contact a disappearing man. That man takes 10 days to respond and informs you he has a girlfriend. Instead of leaving it at that, you AGAIN send a man a photo of you as a response, admitting that this is done for the sole purpose of messing with him and then you state "see if he was reaching out to "play" with me."

He wasn't reaching out dear, he was RESPONDING - to YOU'RE contact.

Then he says he'll text you Monday and you respond with "I replied to him with "nah". Like dont bother...Im not playing."

But honey. . .don't you see, PLAYING is exactly what you're doing. It's YOU perpetuating these situations. It's YOU initiating these contacts.

Then the Taurus man, the man you've been waiting for contacts you - and now, you're not responding to him. And the reason you're not contacting him is because you've catapulted yourself 6 months into the past by contacting your disappearing man only to find out he has a girlfriend.

So now, that's upset you to the point that you're in a funk and you're treating the man who you claim is a good man and that you claim you wanted to be with - poorly.

When we have "replays" like that in life dear, when we experience the same dynamics in all of our dating efforts - at some point you have to look to yourself for the reason why, ya' know?

You have to ask yourself, am I creating this roller coaster of emotions myself? Am I creating the "contest" dynamic with the men I date? Am I delivering mixed messages? Am I, the Leo, playing a cat and mouse game with these men, LOL?

Again, I mean no disrespect dear, I am truly attempting to help you here. If you think the Taurus is a good man and you think there's a future there - you're not going to reach it like this dear. Treating a man that you believe is a good man and that you want to be with poorly is not going to lead you to a healthy relationship with him. And looking over your shoulder and reaching back 6 months into your past isn't going to do anybody any good. As a matter of fact, it's actually set you back. So much so that now, you may miss an opportunity here with the man you claim you want to be with.

If you want to be with this man, then YOU are going to have to WORK at it too, sweetie. You are going to have to behave consistently and respectfully. Because as I've said before, these tactics are only meant to be used on men who are treating you poorly, not on men who you believe are treating you well. If you use these tactics on men who treat you well, they're going to label you a game player and they won't "invest" in you or a relationship with you as a result.

Cont. . .; July 26, 2013 at 8:33 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "And, cus the universe is powerful, just as this was going on, the taurus texts me after 3 days."

You know why I think the universe catapulted the Taurus into your face during this episode you kicked up with the Sag? There is a lesson in it - the universe is handing you the opportunity, the thing you wanted (contact from the Taurus), in the midst of the episode with the Sag, to see which you'd choose.

It wanted to know, would you pass up the opportunity you've been wishing for - because you're not ready and not truly done with the past? The universe is testing you to see if you've changed. It's saying, "Oh look, this is a good opportunity to see if this is REALLY what she wants - so let's find out - what will she choose?"

And you chose to turn away from the opportunity, as opposed to investing into it to move it forward. So now, you've set yourself back to square one - upset over the Sag and missing out on the Taurus - willingly and knowingly. You've informed the universe of your choice and your choice was to "pass" on the opportunity it handed you.

Again, just some food for thought dear, no response necessary. I just want you to really think about your own actions here in an effort to break the cycle you're in - a cycle that's holding you back from obtaining a healthy relationship dear. The confusion you're trapped in right now, as much as I hate to say this, is of your own doing hun.

You've revisited your past - and you've turned your back on the future. And you've sent mixed message to both of these men. Pursuing and initiating with the Taurus last week, only to turn your back on him this week. And initiating with the Sag, only to turn around and tell him, "Nah, I'm not playing."

If it's not playing sweetie, then what is it? Do you really think a man that's disappeared on you is going to suddenly provide you with comfort and consolation? And do you think ignoring the man you think is a good man - is going to lead to a healthy relationship with him?

I think maybe you need to not date right now hun. Because your emotions are not consistent right now, they're fluctuating, and during the fluctuation - YOU are taking ACTION. You are ACTING on your EMOTIONS - and that behavior has led you here to where you are now. . .at a stalemate with both men and at a stalemate with yourself. You're in complete deadlock now with yourself, "I'm in a funk now of my own."

When you're feeling emotional dear - NEVER ever ACT on that. It only ends up becoming a regrettable act. Instead of acting out to relieve the anxiety, remain silent until your emotions settle. Less damage is done if that route is taken and it also gives you time to balance once again. Relieve that anxiety via exercise or healthy "burn off" methods - don't attempt to relieve it by dredging up the past or initiating contacts that you're not fully prepared to follow through on to completion.

Again, just some food for thought dear. I think you need to take some time for yourself here and pull yourself off the dating scene until you become clearly focused on what it is that you truly want - and you are fully prepared to do the work and follow through consistently with what is necessary to obtain that :-)

If you do that, if you take the time to gain clarity and to align your goals - you will find happiness dear. And all of this confusion will subside. So please consider doing that for yourself dear, so that you can reach a final decision and then become laser focused on obtaining your goal :-); July 26, 2013 at 8:33 AM
Anonymous said...: First of all, thank you for this wonderful site. Your advice makes sense and is so clear and yet so hard to follow when the emotions hit hard.

I’m a libra woman age 46 years and my ex/present/future man is pisces age 39.

Long story short, we started out about year 2001 and moved together on 2004. The beginning of our relationship was like fireworks, we both had our doubts because he is younger than me, we were and still are working in the same company, he has a child from his previous marriage and we broke up several times before moving together. He was definitely chasing me and I was not interested in him at all at first. It took 6 months before we had sex for the first time. But after moving together things were fine and we both were very happy and in love. We weren’t married but it’s not an issue for us. We had our own house and we lived like a family with his son. All was really wonderful until I started to make all the mistakes which have been mentioned on your site. I forgot all about me and I lived through him and his son, I let go of almost all my hobbies and friends. I just wanted to make our little family so right and wonderful. The result was that I become angry martyr which gave more than received. My man warned me several times but I didn’t understand it then. I thought I did the right thing and he was the selfish one with no responsibilities. Looking back now it’s hard to understand how I changed from a happy, easygoing, brave woman to that home monster. I also waited some reward for my “sacrifices” but not receiving them I changed to be quite a martyr. In 2010 my man informed that he had enough and he left. It was total blow to me although the six months had clear signs what was going to happen. I didn’t want to see it. He had quite clear crisis with his age at that time. He is athletic and always in good shape. He changed his hair style and clothing and I felt that I being older somehow annoyed him. I don’t have kids of my own and he always said that he is very content with only one child so he wanting more kids is not the case.

After separation he texted me almost every day messages like how are you doing and he was very concerned about my wellbeing because within 3 months there was our break up and also 2 of my near family members died. We also saw each other quite often because of the funerals, moving out and selling the house.

In some point I said to him that I don’t want his concern messages and he doesn’t have to take care of me anymore. There was couple of months with fewer messages, but during Christmas time we had sex after company’s Christmas party and ever since that we have been in contact more or less the whole 3 years of separation. There have been times with less contacts but I think we have been in contact either by seeing, texting or via Skype every week. There have been many twists and turns but it would take too long to tell all of them.
Cont...; July 26, 2013 at 3:23 PM
Anonymous said...: At first I was initiating but then afterwards we both did. Sex has been in big role but we also did favors to each other like repairing cars, doing repair work new homes, giving ride to town etc. but all that has been in secrecy so no one except my closest friends knew about these actions. Also we are still working for the same company and we spend our coffee breaks in the same table with other colleagues.

Last fall things were developing in very good direction and in November/December we spent many evenings in a week together and he told that I have bewitched him big time and I was quite sure that we would be together in public very soon. But then gradually he started to withdraw and in the beginning of the February this year he didn’t even text me anything unless I started it. Also at work there were no secret looks or anything. Also all kind of helping we used to have, stopped all together. Only once he helped me with an electricity case because there was a danger for fire. I initiated some messages and he answered but only with few words. In Easter I got a booty call from him in the middle of the night and he came over. Next day when messaging he told that he felt bad and regret. He also stated that this was the last time we had sex because it causes him bad feelings and remorse. After that there were very few messaging but we both did the initiate time to time.

In the beginning of this summer we had an evening entertainment organized by the company. We had some flirt but then he got very drunk and started to hit on one of our colleagues at the table where everyone know about us being a couple before. That was more than I could take and I left. The next day he apologized by txt saying he was sorry to ruin my evening but I’m sure that someone had hinted him that he did something wrong and he actually doesn’t remember what he did. After that there was silence from both of us for a while but as usual we started to text messaging again.

In some point in June my wonderful friend told me about your web site. I started using partly no contact so that I didn’t initiate any messages at all but I answered to his messages with some delay. Also I stopped to answer any booty calls. This was a huge change in my behavior because until this I have always be there for him and organized my schedules to meet his needs and also initiating the conversations lately.

He started reacting quiet soon. He cranked in the night by txt while I was sleeping when I didn’t answered to his booty calls. In the morning there were message that he had removed me from all of his phones, skype etc. (we have not been facebook friends since the breakup 3 years ago) and he did that twice within two weeks. Then I answered to him that if it’s only sex he is after, then his decision was the only correct one.

Cont...; July 26, 2013 at 3:29 PM
Anonymous said...: We had no contact for a week but then he appeared again with txt. He was watching a quite daring pic of me. He didn’t actually suggest anything that went on and on for couple of days and I told him to put that pic away. This is not any excuse but he was quite drunk those days as he was in soccer tournament with his friends.

He changed his tactics and sent couple of very sweet txt and asked to see me. I agreed and we spend nice evening watching movie at my place. I know I should have sent him away after movie but things lead to another and he stayed the night. Somehow he was different, he was very polite and soft and tender and I really noticed that something had happened in his behavior.

He left on Monday this week and now it has been 4 days without any contact from either side. Normally, I would have text to him but now I have not and I’m sure his has noticed the change.

Now re-reading this text it seems that we only had sex and favors to keep us connected but we also had long conversations about common interest like his son, sports, nutrition etc.

Only now I start to see how available I have been all the time. I just thought that it would be the way to get him back but I have only pushed him further. However, I’m also quite disappointed by his behavior towards me. We have long history together and yet his making booty call to me! I’m also very pissed off to myself of ruin what we had. I have learned my lesson now and I need good advice how to handle the situation when he gets back next time and also your insight of the whole case in general.

Gratefully,
Northern light; July 26, 2013 at 3:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi! Mirror,

I was reading your response to Anonymous on
July 25, 2013 at 5:26 PM

Studies show that relationships where the MAN expressed interest in the WOMAN last longer - does it apply to online dating as well? Does a woman always wait for a man to express interest and reach out to you first or can a woman show that she is interested by sending interest -not writing an email but just clicking a button?; July 26, 2013 at 4:31 PM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Ms. Mirror,

"how did it make you feel, to be in control of yourself and the situation to such an extent?"

To be honest, during it, I felt uncertain of it. I was "practicing" the behavior, and watching the results with each communication.

But the next night, when I thought about it, I felt elevated. Elevated is the only word I can come up with to explain the feeling that my self-worth and value was raised. And the fact that it was accomplished by my own actions -- not others -- was an awakening.

I am far from owning that awareness, but now that I've felt it, I know it exists, and will continue to work towards it.

So, I'm still practicing.

I didn't respond to Court Officer's last text Wed night, so Thurs afternoon I thought, "ok, it's my turn to show 'some' interest," so I sent him a pic of the Freedom Tower construction in NYC. No mssg, just the pic.

Then we had minor txts back/forth, we were both working.

CO didn't try to contact me last night and I was happy with that. For me: 100% contact = need for constant attn. And need for constant attn. = a man-child. And man-child = OMf'n you-know-what! Not again!!! lol

So, no contact last night, was good. It showed me CO has other things going on in his life. And that's a good thing. (And I met my gf for dinner, then we went to a country concert on the town green where we people-watched and had a nice couple hours in town.)

And this AM, CO txts me a 'good morning' on my way to work. He is pleasant, and so am I.

Tonight, CO texts me with a "Hi you (not a hey)"

When we talked the 2nd time, he mentioned how I had not responded to a "Hey!" text he had sent in the day. I laughed, and said, 'yeah, what do you usually get from a "Hey!" We banged that around for a while, but he got it, I'm not going to respond to Hey! lol

When I didn't answer his text tonight right away, he sent another, "How are you (my name)?"

Hmm, he's getting it. lol

I asked him to call instead of text.

CO responds he's at a friend's mother's wake event, so noisy.

He mentions his golfing friends funeral on Sunday, and with each message, the only thing I know to do is relay my sympathy.

Then there is just normal everyday chatter, until we get here:

CO> What are you up to?

Me> I am vegging. Listening to a Kip Moore song on repeat... habit drives others crazy. lol

CO> drive me crazy someday.

Me (hmm... this could be taken in different ways - so I choose to take it as though he is referring to my habit of listening to a song on repeat). So I just respond) > lol

CO> Soon!

Me (I'm going to push him to get clear here)> ?

CO> I would love for you to drive me crazy

Me (practice girl, use Ms. Mirror's 'suggestion techniques' while keeping it light)> Don't you think we should meet each other in person before silly talk like that? I've been told my music habit equates to torture for some. lol

CO? yes- I am done talking.

And that's it. No more texts. lol poof! And for some reason, I find it humorous.

So, how do I feel, Ms. Mirror? I feel validated as a person who deserves the best there is for her.

Thank you!

@ Lady Leo, breath girl. Take a break to allow this gust of clutter to clear. Do something good for yourself this weekend -- get your nails done, get a massage... etc. We are here for you...; July 26, 2013 at 9:08 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 26, 4:31PM,
It applies to men and women across the board, in any environment. Relationships where the man pursued the woman and expressed interest in the woman first - have a greater chance of survival.

Online dating is no different and, as a matter of fact, it applies there even more. If you're a woman that pursues men (initiates) in the online dating environment - many of those men will feign interest in you and go along with it so that they may sleep with you - and then completely disappear on you.; July 27, 2013 at 9:54 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Northern Light,
Well dear, this is probably going to hurt a bit, but I also think it's going to help you see clearly, so bear with me :-)

Regretfully, he kept you on a sexual option after the breakup. And you did the same, only you thought it would lead to a reconciliation.

Unfortunately, when women make themselves available to men without the men having to PROVE they are genuinely interested via ACTION and consistent behavior, this happens :-( Especially when the woman makes herself sexually available without receiving anything in return.

The simple fact that he "hid" your relationship afterwards and didn't really want to go public with the fact that you two have still been seeing each other for 3 years - not a good sign at all dear, big red flag. If a man is hiding YOU, then he's also hiding his INTENTIONS about you as well (from the rest of the world). He doesn't want to have to explain himself to anyone. He doesn't want to have to explain what he's doing and why he's doing it. And the reason for that is because he'd have to tell people that he's using you (for sex). I'm sorry :-(

That's also the reason he eventually said this:

"Next day when messaging he told that he felt bad and regret."

He felt bad and he felt regret because - he used you for sex and he knew it. His conscience got to him and he started to suffer guilt, regret and remorse for this:

"I got a booty call from him in the middle of the night and he came over."

And you see it as well:

"it seems that we only had sex and favors to keep us connected"

However, you think that because you TALK about things in common, that somehow means he's interested in more:

"but we also had long conversations about common interest like his son, sports, nutrition etc."

Friends have those same conversations dear. Aquaintances have those conversations, co-workers have those conversations - you can even have a conversation like that with a complete stranger. . .and it doesn't mean a thing. TALK and conversation mean very little in the grand scheme of things dear when they are NOT being accompanied by ACTION on the man's part as well.

And he hasn't taken any ACTION with you in the last 3 years that indicates anything more than a sexual connection. He has asked you to dinner, he hasn't taken you out in public, he hasn't telephoned you consistently - he hasn't done anything other than ring you up for sex and make small talk in order to obtain that :-(

When he returns, NO CONTACT (and no response) dear - for 30 days solid:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

And this has nothing to do with getting him back as a boyfriend. This is FOR YOU. So please take advantage of that. Doing so will help you to emotionally detach from the situation. Because right now, you are enmeshed with him emotionally, your attached, and you need to detach and gain clarity and put your emotions to rest.

And 30 days of no contact and NO RESPONSE will put you back on track. He'll whine, he'll throw a fit - he's used to getting his way with you. But all of that MUST change now. YOU are going to take CONTROL of the situation and YOUR OWN LIFE right now.

Cont. . .; July 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: You are NOT going to permit yourself to be a booty call. You are NOT going to permit yourself to see him during personal time after work and you are NOT going to let him guilt/manipulate you into doing so.

Instead, you are going to show him the consequences of his decision to leave. You are going to make him EXPERIENCE those consequences. And those consequences of his decision are NO SEX FOR FREE, no USING you, no AVAILABILITY to him. His decision was to leave and that's fine - but he must realize that there are consequences to that decision. And those consequences are NO ACCESS TO YOU ANYMORE:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

He is no longer going to be permitted to have his cake and eat it to. And YOU are the one that's going to see to it that that no longer happens. YOU are not going to feed the spoiled brat cake any longer ;-)

And if he continues to push you, you stand strong and refuse. You need to think about yourself here and stop thinking about him. He's a big boy, he can take care of himself and being by himself is what he's chosen to do - so let him live with the consequences of that.

No one comes along and makes life cushy for you right? No one comes along a fulfills your needs for free right? Don't do it for him either. He's a grown man, not a helpless child. He can take care of himself.

From now on dear, it's all about YOU. He is a part of your past and that's exactly where you need to leave him - in your past.

And once you begin NC, I suggest you start dating other men. You need to receive interest from other men so that you realize your worth and value as a woman. You need to date other men so that you can see how a woman is supposed to be treated - as valuable, not as a sexual object. And you need to date other men so that you move forward in life, towards your future, instead of being pulled back into your past constantly.

Make it your goal over the next 30 days dear - to move forward into the future and to not look back over your shoulder into the past.

Forward - your goal is to always keep marching forward dear :-); July 27, 2013 at 10:33 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50 and Lady Leo,
Thank you for lending her support here. I know my observations may have been a little harsh in nature, however, I believe she's mature and graceful enough to process it and take from it what is useful (and truly understand that I'm attempting to help.)

So Lady Leo, if you need that assistance, you know we're all here :-)

@Gemini 50,
Good lord dear, you're on fire, LOL!

I'm so very proud of you, and you know why? Because YOU are not beating yourself up for HIS inappropriate behavior and inability to man-up here. YOU are not looking at YOURSELF for the answer to that. Instead, you are laying it squarely back onto his shoulders and you are separating yourself from HIS behavior - and making HIM own HIS ;-)

At this point dear - I think it's safe to say, he's hunting a hookup here. And this happens a lot, particularly in the online dating world, where lazy men abound. They feign interest in a "real" relationship, but their ACTIONS indicate it's a hookup they truly seek.

And his little, "yes- I am done talking" stunt was a manipulation tactic that was meant to cause you panic at the thought that he might be pulling away. You see, you were supposed to beg him to see you, you were supposed to question where his head was at, you were supposed to run to see him - and you were supposed to jump into his lap and sleep with him in order to "seal the deal." At least that's what HE thought, LOL ;-)

Instead, this didn't bring up once ounce of insecurity in you but rather - the observation of his behavior is helping you to see that - he's a bit of a brat. This is the SECOND time that he's acted poorly and somewhat rude in the face of not getting his way. I'm thinking his ego is a bit out of check here. I'm also thinking this man thinks he's a catch, even though he's done absolutely nothing special to prove that to you.

He's had many opportunities to ask you on a real date and he avoids doing so. Each time it gets into "serious" territory, with a "real" date suggested - he bolts. He plays the disappearance game (meant to make YOU chase), instead of manning up and moving things forward. And when a man does that, it's because he doesn't want what you want, something real. Instead, he's a lazy man that's seeking free and easy sex, a hookup. Which is why he's now venturing into sexually suggestive territory with you - he's testing your response to that because it will tell him how open to that idea you may be. And when he sees that you're not open to that, like a baby, he runs away and probably pouts.

But don't worry, these types always come back, unfortunately, LOL!!!

And while it may seem a waste of your time, you ARE learning valuable lessons from this experience dear. View him as a teacher - he's teaching you how to put these things into practice and make them a natural part of your filtering techniques with men.

And he's being quite silly about it to boot. I mean really, how is a woman supposed to "drive him crazy" - when he won't even see her and ask her on a damn date, LOL. These chooches never cease to amaze me. And yes, chooch is a local word used in my area to describe these types of men at times, LOL.

It's even made it into the urban dictionary:

"The term is derived from the Italian word "ciuccio" and means jackass, dummy, idiot, or moron. A chooch is a person, who against better judgement, acts inappropriately."

Keep on keeping on Gem - you're making huge strides ;-); July 27, 2013 at 10:55 AM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Ms. Mirror,

Funny response. You are probably right with this guy. As a Court Officer, he HAS to be in control of his surroundings, and as a widow raising his kids (I have no idea of specifics but his youngest is 17) I would guess he is managing the home. So, he's used to getting what he wants, when he wants.

But, it doesn't matter about him. He either steps up and shows me he is a man who knows how to treat a woman via action, or he can go on his merry way. I really don't care.

My 5th delivery date for Sig is in a couple weeks, and if it comes in, then I'll be going to the town range and sure to meet plenty of men (in person) lol.

For the ladies here, what I continue to learn, with the help of Ms. Mirror and ALL of your posts/feedback, is the standards I set for treatment is more about me than any man. And my behavior is not about inflicting my will on another. Rather, it is about taking care of myself by not compromising myself.

I've compromised myself too many times in the past because I have thought of the other person before myself. I was raised with little value, and taught I had no right to put myself before others. But setting levels of what I will/will not accept is not about others, it is about me.

And, consider this: Look around your life and identify those you respect the most. Who are the people who have been positive influences in your life, and who you have strived to emulate (in the sense of continuing what you have learned from them)?

What do/did these people have? I bet they had standards. And I bet they had their own way of demonstrating them that you recognized and respected.

It hurts so much when a guy treats us poorly. Hell, it hurts when anyone treats us poorly. But, learn from Ms. Mirror. We need to continually test and vet-out EARLY ON in relationships to keep the lazy men, the man-child, the psychopaths, etc out of our lives.

It's work ladies... and sometimes we'll err, (hell, I've been err'ing much of my life lol) but I know we can do it. ;)

And, Ms. Mirror, your advice to Lady Leo was right on... Lady L is in a cloud of confusion (we've all been there) and taking time out to step away from it all is sometimes the best thing.

We reap what we sow; sometimes fields and plants benefit from absolutely no manual labor above ground -- but there's still activity with the roots as they continue to twist and twirl thru the soil, finding their way to nutrients for growth.

I like that thought.

Sometimes it is so hard for us to do "nothing." We live in a society that promotes constant activity and stimulation, and for us to display our activities to the world (our friends, family, neighbors, online, etc.)

Sometimes we need to think of ourselves as the crops in the field: just swaying with a breeze, or not; turning our face to the sun, or shouldering the rain; being food or being shit on (lol) but always with an opportunity to grow.

If a man wants to disappear ladies, let him. Last yr I fell in love with Martha Gellhorn. In one of her books, she wrote about breakups and said something about instead of taking action against someone you once loved because they no longer love you, that we should instead take care of ourselves and heal from the hurt.
(She said it better, but hopefully, you get the drift.)

NC is not about taking action against someone else, or trying to do something to get someone to do the thing you want. NC is about wrapping your arms around yourself, stepping out of the drama, and breathing for you.

You are worth it!

(hugs); July 27, 2013 at 12:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror and everybody!

I agree with everything that has been written here recently. Perfect food for thought, as usual!

@Gemini 50
I am happy that online dating has turned out quite fun for you, at least the way you´ve handled this man suggests so.

As for online dating I have one tip. I have found out that a good way to meet new men is through hobbies. E.g. I love going cycling, so I wrote on a dating site that I would like to meet someone who would like to join me for bike rides and is looking for a long-term partner at the same time. And a lot of men have responded. One of the advantages is that in this way a real, physical date is almost inevitable; it´s natural because there´s a common activity involved; there are not awkward silences as you can always talk about your hobby if not anything else; you are doing what you like doing so you are feeling good about yourself; you don´t have to force yourself to go on a "date" because you would do the activity it on your own anyway. And if you don´t want to meet again, it´s easier for both parties then after a typical date. You can still meet e few times as friends who have the same hobby.

I wish everybody all the best!
Hopeful...; July 27, 2013 at 1:15 PM
Anonymous said...: @ Mirror of Aphrodite

Thank you for your insight.

It was little bit harder than I expected as I still keep up hope for me and him.

Anyway, I think that the main thing here is to learn to respect myself and set boundaries and make them clear to others. Thank you for teaching that.

Greatfully,
Norhtern light; July 27, 2013 at 3:21 PM
Lady Leo said...: I haven't had the energy to read all the replies after MOA's but I thank you all none the less.

To clarify: I don't give a hoot about the Sag or wish to ever know him again. My choice to send the pic and reply was to *smoke* him out so I could see his true intentions and verify the gf and the real reason why he left. When the truth was made clear to me it did unsettle me, that's all. That's why I didnt reply to taurus (I did the next day).

I was fighting his (sag) fire with fire and Im glad I did. The universe sent me the answer to why he left and sadly it was because he is another broken, insecure man. I've already sent prayers up for him to be healed and his gf. I know she's in for pain.

I am no longer playing games with taurus, tho he is extremely confused and angry. I replied with a nice thank you to his message. He replied asking "Can I call you later to talk". Everything we ladies want to hear, right? So I agreed and last night he called. But, it was mostly superficial. Told me about the bad weekend with dad, work challenges etc. His demeanor had a strong underlying resentful tone. Made a comment about women who "cry on demand". wasnt referring to me as I havent cried on him, but to an employee situation. I called him on that asking if he was joking, he first said no, and that women have used that to manipulate men. This was a BIG red flag that he is angry. He later said he was "trying to joke". He was upset with his AA sponsor for not having time to meet with him this week to do some step work, upset with a group of employees for under producing and "read the riot" act to them and one young 22 yr guy in particular, resulting in the guy breaking down into heaving sobbing tears. I have to admit I was aghast as he told me this. Though he wasn't bragging about how he handled this, I clearly saw that he felt it was right and would make the kid a better employee. I almost did not recognize this man in this tepid, fake conversation.

He asked my plans for the weekend, I told him. He told me his plans and that he was seeing "friends" tonight to go to a comedy club. He asked if I was going to the AA gratitude night Sunday, that he was going and hoped to see me there. I said I didnt know. He asked me if he could add me to Facebook that he was just now retuning to FB after a year and enjoying it. He ended the call saying he enjoyed talking to me, I said "Even though it was a superficial conversation?" He said "Yes, it was but it was also enjoyable".

Today he added me to FB (Against MY OWN GUT saying not to accept). I looked at his wall and there it was...him asking he FB pals on Thurs for a recommendation of a fun place to go sat night "for two". So, announcing he had a date. I took off my size 8.5 sneakers and beat myself in the head and immediately unfriended him. WTF was I thinking? I have no idea but I need to take myself out to the woodshed and whip my own ass.

And here's the kicker....I had a date a few days ago, posted a lil snippet on it on FB but before I added him, I removed it. Didn't want to hurt him or screw my future chance with him up. I thought I was being respectful to us both. I guess he didn't have that same thought. I have no idea what he wants with me and he prob doesnt either, but this is toxic to me and I cannot handle a friendship with a man I have feelings for. Yet another lesson learned.; July 27, 2013 at 6:28 PM
Lady Leo said...: Part 2...
I should've added this to my last post.

I didn't want to just amputate him from my FB list so I emailed and said I had second thoughts about FB being a good idea for us and that I didn't think we should stay in touch. That was what I told him when he broke up with me, but he just kept "enticing" me in. I CAN'T DO FRIENDSHIP!!

So I wrote a brief, respectful email. He replied with smarmy, ungentleman like anger. "Whatever you want, Princess..Im turning this over. You have choices and can make your choices". For him, this is an angry reply. From his resentfulness the night before and then this..I'd had enough.

In the 12 step process, when in the middle of a 4th step inventory, people become very resentful and uncomfortable. They've just opened up, in writing, about how they've harmed people, their fears, how people have harmed them and of course, they list their resentments. It's natural to become restless, irritable and discontent AND resentful at this time. But it's NOT acceptable to take it out on people!!

So anyhow, that's the update. Nothing to do or say, really. Thanks all for listening.; July 28, 2013 at 8:11 AM
KK said...: Gemini 50,
I appreciate your latest post, all very true - I needed to hear something like that.
Yes, NC can and should apply to anyone who has treated us poorly, not just a man. I haven't spoken to or seen those two other friends I mentioned before. It's been 3 months and suddenly out of nowhere, one of them (the one closest to me - known eachother for 3 yrs) choses to go ahead and try to weasel her way back in by visiting my FB and 'liking' certain things - when they actually relate to her as well and HER poor behaviour. She was not a friend during a hard time in my life, she was absent, she's clueless to what may be going on and now is being a coward and can't communicate properly either? Totally laughable. She's trying somehow - but c'mon, try harder! They do all come back - in some form. And it's after taking this space and time for yourself where you will see everything much more clearly and as Mirror has said, you may not even want them back! It's a life lesson for sure.
Pisces did the same thing Thursday night (just as I wrote about him earlier that day) *sigh*. He popped on my radar and it surprised me, but I was also aware of his 'attention grabbing' tactics and didn't react. He posted more pictures (work) and I could see a conversation between him and a family member while 'single mom' shows up again and obsessively starts liking and commenting on everything - saying she missed them and couldn't wait to spend the weekend - again, no reciprocation or response from Pisces.
1 month in apparently and she's clearly placing expectations on him already and assuming she'll be with him and have the whole weekend with him, every weekend (threatening his freedom and stopping him from doing whatever else he feels like), she doesn't have hobbies or friends or other men around? and her son is not even 2 years old, shouldn't that be your main priority? (I don't know any info about a custody arrangement, where maybe the father would have him on weekends, if he's even around) but still, she seems to 'need' a man (and who knows, maybe for the 'not so right' reasons) and has jumped from one to the other claiming to 'love' all of them (immature and naive), she is constantly available/chasing and all the other clues are there. The following morning she said something else and followed it again with "love ya" - he responded the next day (Sat) (wasn't with her as she had expected), but no real reciprocation again. Just continued to 'feed the beast'. It's so ridiculous. What's gonna happen when she asks him "why don't you ever say it back to me?"

I guess my curiosity now is, can someone (he) actually note the HUGE differences now between two women, compare and come to a 'smart' realization of some kind - possibly even sooner in this case?. Honestly, who would you rather be with?

I'm still in a good position anyway now of rejecting him and ignoring him and letting him see for himself (deliver a consequence at the same time), I have not seen him in almost 4 months (and haven't asked to), I don't do these things she's doing. He's not on a 'leash' with me. And it's actually a benefit for me to know someone for 6+ months and to know what they like/don't like, their routine - everything. I feel oddly empowered by that fact alone.

It's obvious though that men don't really like that kind of needy/desperate behavior and it turns them off, I understand they'll 'fake it' in order to gain certain benefits, but after a while, that does get old - reality sets in and other things which he brought on himself by not being clear and direct right away and he'll be hurting someone in the process when he tells her 'I'm not ready'.
It's so easy to save all of that and not go through it to begin with, why do men have to complicate things? LOL it's just all very confusing to me.; July 28, 2013 at 9:51 AM
KK said...: Breaking News! :) Disappearing man #2 - the one who only wanted to meet because he broke up with his girlfriend? - He just messaged me asking how I am. 24 days NC with him.; July 28, 2013 at 10:00 AM
Lady Leo said...: I just had to post this email from a dude on my dating site. He lives like 9 states away and this is the first contact:

"sup sexy

Good Day sexy lady you really take my breath away that i would really like to be your friend i have read your profile and i like every thing about you i would like to chat with you please get back to me i am right Online waiting to hear back from you . God Bless you Gorgeous .."

He is 49 years old.

Really???? LOL...I am now accepting suggestions on what to say in reply to him. NOT cus I am interested..NO WAY...but as a "lesson"...you know, to assist him with his efforts to meet the lady of his dreams. Cus clearly, dude needs a schooling!!; July 28, 2013 at 10:17 AM
Anonymous said...: moa.....MY STORY goes way deep, so for right now i just have one question.

The lasted story i got, via and email, was that his phone was lost in the river while kayaking and that he had every intention of calling me, which he had told me for the last 3 days. He said when he gets a phone in the next couple of days he would call me....Well, what i want to know is should i send an email, saying only this...ok thanks for letting me know. or should i begin no contact for 30 days, without responding? my question is actually do i want to start no contact when he will think i am mad at him? he always ask me if i dont respond right away to text if he has done something to make me mad, which of course he has, so do i want him to think im mad at him, or respond to that, then start no contact when he texts me? thanks; July 28, 2013 at 11:00 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

S.B. here again with an update...You were right! :) I had a Bigfoot sighting on yesterday. lol The spoiled ass brat finally resurfaced after 24 days of NC with a LAME ass txt (Hey, funny actor), Really?!?! smh Don't worry.. I didn't reply and don't plan to anytime soon. ;) I thought it was funny though because I received the txt at 8am on Saturday and he doesn't even wake up before noon on weekends. lol Must have had a good ole dream about me..hehe ;); July 28, 2013 at 11:27 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi mirror
Can I have a bit of advice please.
Was seeing a guy long distance Ive been up to his place a few times and he has come down to my end also,but the problem I'm having is the time between seeing each other they are like months in between.
He says he does want to see me,he always kept in touch but I went up there in April and I've come back home and he has ignored my text and not heard from him since,I know in my gut it's because if he spent his weekends with me he won't be able to spend time with his mates,because one time I was going up there for the weekend he said he was going out with his mates on Saturday night,so that means I would have been on my own at his home,(he never went out in the end).
Do u think he will change or is this a lost cause?
I know that guys still want there feeling of freedom,but I don't know how to go about it.
I just want to talk to him about it because I just want to know where I stand.
How do I go from here?; July 28, 2013 at 11:59 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 28, 11:00AM,
This is one of those situations where you need to trust your gut - it will lead you in the direction you need to go.

I'm assuming that by the use of the word story, as in "The last story i got" - that you don't think this is truth and that is is a concocted story. .that was previously accompanied by several more stories. So if I understand correctly, you're noticing a pattern here - and this isn't a singular event.

If that's the case - follow your gut. And your gut must be speaking to you, otherwise, you wouldn't be inquiring.

And even I must admit, this is a rather cliche' story. .err, explanation, LOL, "his phone was lost in the river while kayaking." I'm surprised that the Lochness Monster didn't gobble it up immediately afterwards ;-)

Granted, his story could be true, however, if there's a pattern here accompanied by previous "story" situations, then the chances of truth become much less.

And once again, I see a man insulting a woman's intelligence and use of common sense:

"he had every intention of calling me, which he had told me for the last 3 days. He said when he gets a phone in the next couple of days he would call me"

Soooo. . .he has an Internet connection, but somehow, no access to a phone? That's what he'll have you believe? Think about that - what are the chances of having access to the Internet but not a telephone line? What's he doing, catching a stray signal for a brief moment of time, somewhere deep in the wilds of the Alaskan wilderness, LOL?

"do i want to start no contact when he will think i am mad at him?"

Don't worry about what HE thinks right now. Let HIM worry about what YOU are thinking right now.

Don't "thank" him for letting you know. That's basically the equivalent of "thanking" him for - lying to you. It also signals, in subtle language, that he has to "report" to you in some manner.

Instead, simply say, "Sounds good."

Just those two words, nothing else. And then begin 30 days of No contact (no response). That way, he doesn't have to come up with excuses to not talk to you - instead, he has all the time in the world to do whatever the hell it is that he's doing right now. And give him plenty of time and space to do that, don't fight it and don't let anxiety get the better of you.

Stand strong in your value and your worth as a woman and don't let guilt or his cries of manipulation break you from that (because chances are he will begin to "act up" here once you go silent, based on his previous behavior). And if he's not the man to recognize that worth in you, that's fine, plenty of others will eventually come along that will :-); July 28, 2013 at 12:05 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 28, 11:59PM,
"I just want to talk to him about it because I just want to know where I stand."

Why dear? So he can reject you to your face - or worse yet, lie to you to your face? Don't bother and don't willingly wish to put yourself through that.

He doesn't need to TELL you in WORDS where you stand with him - he's already TELLING you that with his ACTIONS. . .and you're not hearing him dear :-(

The preferred language of men is that of ACTION, not WORDS. And as a woman, you need to LISTEN to a man's ACTIONS. Here are his actions:

"seeing each other. . .like months in between."

"I went up there in April and I've come back home and he has ignored my text and not heard from him since"

"I was going up there for the weekend he said he was going out with his mates on Saturday night, so that means I would have been on my own at his home"

Can you "hear" what he's saying dear? Do you really need to hear this in WORDS as well? And/or do you really want to give him an opportunity to lie to you and continue to string you along? It's not necessary. His ACTIONS are speaking loud and clear :-(

There also seems to be some misinterpretation of his actions as well, because on the one hand you say this:

"He says he does want to see me, he always kept in touch"

But on the next, you say this:

"I went up there in April and I've come back home and he has ignored my text and not heard from him since"

He's NOT keeping in touch with you dear.

And this is just plain ignorant:

" I was going up there for the weekend he said he was going out with his mates on Saturday night,so that means I would have been on my own at his home"

If a man expected me to sit alone on a weekend night in HIS home and WAIT FOR HIM - I'd have never gone. Not only would I have never gone, but right then and there, I'd know where I stood on his list of priorities, and regretfully, that doesn't signal high on the list.

NEVER treat someone like your PRIORITY while THEY are treating YOU like their OPTION dear :-(

"Do u think he will change or is this a lost cause?"

The bigger question is, are YOU willing to sit around and WAIT for a man to decide whether or not he likes you? Are YOU willing to sit around and WAIT for a man to change? Do you really believe that men eventually miraculously change into the Prince you want them to be?

That's the ILLUSION dear, but the REALITY is right here. . .he is who he is - and chances are, that's not going to change.

"I know that guys still want there feeling of freedom, but I don't know how to go about it."

That's not up to YOU dear. It's not YOUR job alone to make this work. It's not YOUR job to figure out how to "go about this." It's not YOUR job to make this work. It takes two, HE has to want this too. And the reality is that not every man is "relationship" material or "relationship ready." Just because you want them to be, doesn't mean that's the way it is or that's what will happen.

Don't focus on "what might happen." Instead, focus on WHAT IS HAPPENING - and proceed accordingly ;-); July 28, 2013 at 12:28 PM
Lady Leo said...: Dear MOA and Gemini50 and everyone:

I seriously need some advice. I'm making poor decisions with Taurus. :(

After the unpleasant email exchange yesterday where I told him I cannot be FB or real life friends, I told him in a last email I wasn't going to accept his being resentful towards me anymore (the sarcastic princess comment) and that as we once cared about each other we should remember that and let go of the anger. He did not reply which I was glad. Today, out of the blue, he texts me "Hi friend....are you going to the birthday celebration tonight. It would be great to see you. But I understand if you dont" WTH? Less than 24 hrs previous I tell him I can't be in a friendship with him, he gets resentful, I pull away and he comes back with this?

I did not tell him if I was going or not, cus I wasn't sure. I did end up going and I'm so confused by what happened. It was a large, crowded room of lots of people I know. Got immediately involved with chatter and socializing. I saw him behind the bar, setting up. (It's AA so it's a soda bar). I admit I totally avoided the bar to avoid him. I just didn't know how to handle this. He saw me plenty of times and I caught him staring at me. It felt like a case of 2 stubborn mules waiting for the other to say hello. Finally I submitted and texted across the room, "No hello?". He replied "same for you". So we are clearly being twits, I know this. Now here is where I totally lost my god-for-saken mind:

The evening was about to end, with the speakers concluding. I got up to leave, with full intention to leave. He was at a table near the door with 2 of my friends. I kiss each friend goodbye, and one woman says "Why are you leaving, we havent had the closing prayer yet". I mumbled something, I dont know what, then as he was next to her I leaned in to him, kissed him goodbye on the cheek and called him a "dumbass" (for not saying hello). He laughed. And I left. But I couldnt stay gone. Her comment about prayer stayed in my head (long story, but its important for me to complete a meeting with ending prayer). So I went to my car, turned around and went back in. Told her she gave me the guilts . There were no other chairs at the table, so I did something so totally unlike me....I whispered to taurus to "move over" and sat on half of his chair!! My left butt cheek and his right were on the same chair. I had no place to put my left arm, so I put it on his back and started to rub his back and neck!! I was out of my mind, people!!!! He didnt seem to mind, as he didnt move, but then my hand, as if it had a life of its own, started rubbing his belly under his shirt!!! I was a woman possessed, I felt in control and confident and like "Fuck it" this feels good and he isn't moving so I'm doing it!". (Mind you, we've never had sex and he has been nothing but a gentleman). Now he starts to squirm and blush and cover his face in jest. It was as if he really liked it but knew it was so wrong. He melted like a little school girl. I found myself being a seductress almost. I stared right in his face and said "you want me to stop?" He wouldn't answer. I kept thinking about how Taurus men are so sensual and love to be touched. Well he sure loved it.; July 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM
Lady Leo said...: continued part 2.....

When the meeting closed, he went to clean up and I left. I hauled ass outta there. Didn't say goodbye, just split. An hour later I texted him a BS apology saying "sorry, too much caffeine". He laughed it off said "no worries, you're funny". I asked why he didnt say hello since he wanted me to be there. He gave me 3 BS excuses: 1. I didnt say hello first. 2. I was with friends 3. He was doing service manning the bar. I challenged that till he admitted he felt uncomfortable seeing me. We we conversing thru IM texting, it was mildly flirty, told him I saw him staring at me, he tried to deny it but I held it firmly to him and he admitted it. He told me "Thanks for the inappropriate teasing"...Then we said goodnight. This is all SO unlike us. We did NOT do this superfiscal cat and mouse game when we dated. he was very open, expressive and deep about his feelings for me and how we communicated. We have gone into superfiscal 3rd grade mating. He clearly still cares about me but seems to have closed up his heart and won't get honest about how he feels.

I cant do this back and forth. Just seeing him tonight turned me into Dr. Jekll and Ms. Hyde. I was totally insane to do all that touchy stuff. I want this man completely, not half way. It's all or nothing. I'm thinking I need to say exactly this to him in person and ask what he wants, and if it's not me all in, then he must leave me alone or I will have to totally ice him out. It's not fair to me. Im so confused, please give me advice!

--; July 29, 2013 at 2:15 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lady Leo,
Well dear, I stand firm in my suggestion in my last comment - you need to cease acting on your fluctuating emotions as it's only creating further confusion and perpetuating the game type atmosphere here - and you also need to cease dating right now.

If you read through your comments here, you'll see the pattern I'm seeing right now - one of you initiating during fluctuating emotions and then flip flopping on those actions afterwards.

Before this last occurrence, you didn't want friendship, at all. If that was the case, you should've skipped the event temporarily until your emotions steadied a bit. But you went to the event, emotions in a state of flux, and you "initiated" once again.

As a result, more confusion has now been created and he thinks your a tease :-(

And then afterwards comes the flip flop again - because now - you want him, all of nothing.

Every couple of days, your emotions are flip flopping dear. Which is why you need to cease any and all actions here - and stay still - to balance once again.

If you continue to act on these fluctuating emotions, you're going to continue creating further confusion.

Please dear, consider pulling yourself off the market for a month or two here and work on yourself and your emotional control - so that you don't act on those things in ways that cause or create additional confusion for you. Taking that time will permit you to get your emotions under control and to use self-discipline when you're in a state of fluctuating emotions.

I think you need to take some time to yourself dear. If you continue like this, nothing but more confusion is going to result from it :-(; July 29, 2013 at 8:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi and thanks for the response regarding the email and lost phone in river...And yes, this behavior from him has been going on for 5 months, which he says is the longest his have lasted....i said from the beginning to myself that he was a player, or maybe i see now not so much that, but a serial dater....im my mind. but after reading some of your responses on here, i wonder if that was in my head. i did know from the beginning that this was gonna be tough. i had a spark right from the beginning, and i realize now that i have been one all along that has kept it going....so many times its my phone died, or i sleep alot...which is his excuse why i cant get in touch with him. or i like to spend time alone, which i believe is not alone. he has expressed to me in many a nasty email how he hates women and he gets really angry about how they have treated him in his past, and when he drinks its out of control...but not in a physical way, just mean texting.... anyway, fast forward....i realize i have been a fool. we had been seeing each other pretty regularly, and now its been almost 2 weeks, with simple texts inbetween but no dates, which is unusual...when i ask if i can see him, i get no reponse to that question but will answer another. So for the last 5 days he has said he was going to call me and hasnt, so here is the email he sent me.....
Just to let you know, my phone is toast. It was in a pocket on my cooler and I hit a limb and tipped over. Grabbed the cooler but phone got soaked. Also lost my t-shirt and mp3 player :(

I was honestly going to call you. I just went to Target to get a new phone and it rejected both my credit and debit cards. I thought my last paycheck had gone through but it hasn't. I stopped by work to let you know by email. When I get a phone in the next couple of days, I'll call you. Hope your're having a good weekend.
I sent the response to told me too....but seriously im sure he already has a phone. thanks; July 29, 2013 at 9:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Its me again MOA, He also just a week ago saturday went out of town, and texted i miss you, which he never does send a text like that, and then on his way back, called me, but made no plan to see me, which he had not seen me since the tuesday before, and then last week when im questioning why we havent seen each other, he says he doesnt want to see anyone right now, so i texted back, so that must include me? so i said have a good life, and he said you too i mean that.....
then i get a text at the end of the day the next day that says, i hope your day was good, i said could be better, and me sending more texts to see him with no response, then of course i keep sending text and i call him the next day, he answers says hes at work and that he is really busy will call me later, so i send him a text later that night, can i see you, i get...ill call you in a little bit....another hour of so goes by, i say how long is a little bit, he says when the juke box runs out, so then he calls later, is really drunk and pissed off, im not really sure what he said, nothing much really as i had been drinking too, but he hung up on me as he always does. next day he texts...sorry i didnt call you last night like i said i would, which of course he did and apparently doesnt remember so i go along with that and i dont tell him he did. so he says he is going kayaking that he will call me when he is heading back.....so i ask if i can go, he says fri? next week? i ask if i can see him this weekend , no response, but later sends me a picture from the kayak of his feet in kayak in the river....then i got the email the next morning....so. hopefully this will fill you in alittle bit. i definitley feel him pulling back, and i wanted this to work out, i have put so much energy into it, and i can see he hasnt....any other advise?; July 29, 2013 at 9:40 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Kayak Girl,
Honey, he's a lost cause. He's clearly not relationship material and honestly, he's not even dateable material either.

He's not making you happy, he's not treating you special, he's not being consistent, he's not fulfilling your needs, he's not caring, he's not sympathetic - and he's not honest.

He has absolutely NOTHING to offer you or any other woman right now - other than a good time here and there when it suits him.

People can only treat us as poorly as we'll permit them to dear. And if you continue to permit this, then you're only going to have yourself to blame :-(

Players do NOT make good boyfriends, lovers or husbands - they are for play only. And if you want more than play from a man, you're going to have to cut this one loose, never look back, and find a man that wants what you want - and that has the skills and tools to deliver that to you.

This one is immature, ignorant and has nothing to offer you dear - except confusion and heartache :-(; July 29, 2013 at 11:13 AM
Anonymous said...: Thank you. And I know your right. I just still world like to gain the upper hand before I let go so I feel better. Not sure at this point if I will hear from him again....kayak girl. I like that.; July 29, 2013 at 4:49 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Kayak Girl,
Don't worry, you know what they say, "Karma is a bitch" - and in time, Karma does come around.

The most likely scenario here is that, in time, you'll have the last laugh, that which you desire. Because men like this, as much as I hate to say this dear, most times, they have a rotation of women.

And when it's your turn in the rotation again, he'll most likely come-a-calling, LOL. That could be a month from now, two or three months from now - or 8 months to a year from now.

But guys like this, they tend to not recognize their own selfish patterns - and as a result, their behavior become extremely predicable.

They don't see it - but everyone else eventually catches on.; July 29, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Lady Leo,

Sorry dear, I’m going to be tough because I've been where you are.

It’s not Taurus, it’s you. And you need to accept that your initial pulling away has impacted this man, and let HIM work thru his feelings without you trying to push him.

You are acting-out with a childlike need for attention. Your physical sexual actions, and then fleeing, is not only a tease, it’s cruel to Taurus and dangerous for you. Leaving the building and returning is no big issue – you aren’t hurting anyone by returning for prayer. Putting your hand under Taurus' shirt and rubbing him skin to skin is a big issue because of your intent.

You need to enlist your adult to take care of that little girl who is hurting and acting out for attention. Use whatever tools you’ve learned in your support groups to be the adult your child needs.

It seems to me, you are putting yourself in more dangerous situations:
- Taunting a man from online dating site because you don’t like the obvious template he sends to women. (I don’t know if you actually responded to him, but you asked US to participate in your “game.”)
- Physically teasing a man sexually.

What’s next?

The bottom line is this man has pulled away AFTER you pushed him away. And you have to accept that and let him work thru his feelings.

You apologized, but an apology does not prove regret and change. Action shows change (how many times has Ms. Mirror explained that to us: action matters, not words), and your current action is not showing you are a stable woman; nor does it show you have respect for Taurus.

When I saw your last mssg about commenting to the online guy, I became worried for you. Please listen to Ms. Mirror. Stop playing for male attention and take a time out. Breath, breath, breath… breath as nourishment for your self and your life.

What I see is your child crying out for help. Help her by talking quietly to her one-on-one; let her know you will always be there for her and you will ALWAYS take care of her. Give her the time to stop thinking about Taurus and any other men, and let her know that while she’s NOT thinking about them, you will take care of her.

And for the adult: DO IT! No excuses. Manage this current situation (because that’s all it is right now, just a situation) and protect that little girl. Be her hero and protect her. She needs it right now. Call on your support group for help if you need to.

Only you can stop this behavior Lady Leo; read Ms. Mirror's articles over again. That's what I would do when I was anxious and hurt and wanted attention from Scorpio. I would read and cry and just get thru my fears one moment at a time.

I wish you all the best.; July 29, 2013 at 6:15 PM
VirgoPal said...: Kayak Girl-

This guy probably has a conquest he is pursuing now, so you are now on the "back burner" pending the resolution on that situation. I went through a similar situation with a loser narcissistic player. However, I was the one who got away, and every time I refused to give him what he wanted, he disappeared to test out other options.

Like Mirror said, they are very predictable people. Like every time I saw my loser randomly out in the city, he would call me like ASAP even if I didn't appear interested. Additionally, he tried to charm me to get back into my good graces after a disappearing act then turned back into an asshole thereafter once I was hooked again. Heck, I knew he was going to disappear one day after I rejected him sexually for the millionth time.

It becomes a cycle. Regardless, I say don't waste your time. These losers will never change. This goes for your guy and all of these disappearing rejects who play games with women.; July 29, 2013 at 9:01 PM
Lady Leo said...: Hi all,

Thanks for your thoughts, ladies. I always appreciate the clarity of feedback even if it stings. Actually, it didn't because you both are not telling me anything I don't know or haven't considered. I know what my core issues are and how they make me react. I am much more centered today and see much more clearly after connecting with my real life support friends.

I have never acted out sexually so last night was a shock to me, I still can't identify what came over me. I do know I should not have gone however I will clean up my side of the street. With the guidance of my sponsor. I know what I need to do and I'm taking her suggestions.

The tremendous blessing of being connected to a spiritual recovery and support system is when I mess up, I just need to surrender to it, to them and ask for proper guidance to make right what I've made wrong. Luckily for me, I am always willing to listen to others for their perspective is always clearer than my own. And as I like having peace in my soul I am willing to make amends and take necessary action to live and do better.

If I have to move on and let this man have his time to recover and heal, then that's the way it is. And I will always pray for his best and happiness. And my own.

:); July 29, 2013 at 9:19 PM
Anonymous said...: thank you Virgopal, i too am a virgo, but on the cusp of libra which is really more me. i believe he is a capricorn.....im sure its true, there is obviously someone else, they always say its not, but we always know it is....i am undecided about what to do today, as yesterday i received another email telling me that he has sent me messages on text and asked if such and such was my number...its clearly not my number, so im not sure if i should respond and give him my number or not..i really want to see how this plays out, and feel am interested in what he will do with my number..i thought i wanted closure, but listening to moa in a previous post to someone else, why would i want to hear what i really dont want to know...any advice is appreciated. Kayak girl.; July 30, 2013 at 8:54 AM
Anonymous said...: thank you MOA for your response again....im sure your right. i also fell in love with another guy like this back in 2008, right after my separation. i was heart broken, after about 4 months of dating, he broke it off. i saw him numerous times since then, i never spoke to him. about months ago, he is standing right behind me at a bar and he says you hate me dont you...? i said, hate is a strong work but yeah, i dont care for you much. Anyway, when i started dating this guy, yes its been that long inbetween, just havent been attracted to anyone since, anyway, as soon as i start dating this guy i get a fb message, a text and a phone call all in one night while im on a date with him, asking me if i want to meet for a drink? IS HE INSANE....??? i never responded. Now he is dating a friend of mine.....She will see what a player he is im sure, at some point. that guy even told me that he had cheated on his wife since the day they got married.....why did i even stay around for 4 months....im thinking it was the sex, and i fear thats why i am so attracted to this guy is for the sex....Kayak girl.; July 30, 2013 at 9:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Leo Lady,

I have just read your last message and sadly I feel that there is an issue of responsibility here and I really think that you need to honestly look at your own behaviour in order that things change... Although you do acknowlege your behaviour, I'm getting a strong sense of denial here and I don't think you are taking responsibility for your own behaviour and the subsequent consequences.

'when I mess up, I just need to surrender to it, to them and ask for proper guidance to make right what I've made wrong'

Only you can change your own behaviour and you can only do that with true self-awareness and honesty.

You are only kidding yourself here and people really want to help you on here but you have to want to help yourself...People are not going to collude with your behaviour, it's not in your best interest and our integrity.

My fear is for you that when you wake up from this self-denial that it may too late and Taurus may be gone and if he is a good man Leo lady do you really want to lose him?? Because in the end you would be so angry with yourself and feel so stupid that you couldn't see the wood for the trees...

I'm sorry I couldn't sugar coat this message but please listen and take it on board before it is too late.; July 30, 2013 at 9:52 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Kayak Girl,
I'm not so sure it's the sex that's causing your attractions to the wrong type of men as much as it is your "bad boy" attraction.

This woman wrote a wonderful book that I highly recommend titled, "The 30 Day Love Detox."

http://www.amazon.com/The-30-Day-Love-Detox-Relationship/dp/1609619706

Here she is in a short YouTube video explaining the psychology of the "bad boy" attachment:

http://youtu.be/rs5KpdlA_L8

I imagine you might relate to that :-); July 30, 2013 at 12:51 PM
Mltn said...: I just need to vent. The hardest things for me are: (1) I work with my disappointing loser, so I see him every workday, which is crazy hard (and we're both in management, so neither of us is going anywhere), (2) I'm not actually dating, because my son is so young - I responded to this guy because this has been building between us for years, but I'm not "out there" and don't really want to be, so no distractions with other guys, and (3) 7 freaking YEARS, he was my best friend.

I don't know, I just struggle with it. I try to put myself back into that place I was at three weeks ago (aka, the "worst lunch ever"), where he was not being affectionate with me, pretending he had no idea what I was getting at when I talked about my son being at camp and schedules and hinting at the plans we'd made just a few days before. I was SO hurt and angry and just disgusted with myself and him.

But it just feels wrong to have to steep myself in anger, you know? And it's so my natural inclination to explain myself, to give second chances, to give people the benefit of the doubt. If he wanted an explanation for why I'm not speaking to him, if he cared, he'd come ask, right?

Ugh. Anyway. I do have myself under control, I just don't have a lot of people to talk to about this, because most of my friends are either in my workplace or in my industry, and I don't want this bizarre failed inter-office thing to become widely known, so there's not many people I can talk to. And I'm not distracting myself with dating, because I don't want to be on the dating scene at this point in my life.

Maybe I just need to hear that I'm doing the right thing, that I'm being "fair" and this is justice, that I'm not the one who's "throwing away" a relationship that has been a huge part of my life, that he doesn't deserve my time or attention.; July 30, 2013 at 1:16 PM
Lady Leo said...: @july 30....

Honey, Im a dedicated, life long 12 step woman who works a serious spiritual recovery program. I am very aware of my stuff and since you don't understand my "lingo" you arent getting that I have already taken the steps to "work on myself". And continue to do so every single solitary day. Sometimes I fuck up and fall off the horse, but I always get back on. with the help of my strong support network.

Thanks for your opinion.; July 30, 2013 at 2:11 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Mltn,
Honey, you're just going through the emotions of the grieving process is all, grieving the loss. It's normal and natural for your emotions to be in a state of flux right now. As you experience them, just walk through it and maintain control over them is all - don't ACT on them or you'll most likely regret it.

You know what you're doing is right:

"I'm being "fair" and this is justice, that I'm not the one who's "throwing away" a relationship that has been a huge part of my life, that he doesn't deserve my time or attention."

And trust me, there's going to be a day when you look back on all of this, or hear a rumor about him and what a jackass he's been to another, LOL - and you're going to actually be really thankful you did this.

And as much as we'd all like to think we can do this and be loved for it:

"to explain myself, to give second chances, to give people the benefit of the doubt."

The modern day reality is that that's now the definition of a push over - and nefarious folks seek willing victims with that mentality on purpose these days :-(

Times. . .they are a changin' that's for sure:

http://youtu.be/mS6DC2w5j5I

Hang in there dear :-); July 30, 2013 at 4:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi MOA, thanks again for your response, but i would say that bad boys per say is not me.....but honestly, my boyfriend and past boyfriends and ex husband are all pilots....they arent your typical bad boys, i just think this one is commitment phob and a bit immature....still anticipating his text or phone call so i can ignore it....still nothing. Kayak girl; July 30, 2013 at 5:03 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lady Leo,
I know you're struggling right now. But realize that you came here and posted looking for advice, insights, assistance, etc.

When you do that, you have to be willing to "hear" the messages and responses that folks are providing - and gracefully accept them.

The July 30th commenter isn't saying anything that the rest of us haven't already said. She understands your lingo, she just feels time is needed to step back and do more work is all.

We're all on the path dear, we're all here working on ourselves, owning up to our mistakes and we're all here supporting YOU in your efforts to do so as well. So when someone comes along and reaches out a hand to assist you, try to gracefully accept the assistance and the message - in spite of the bitter, jagged little pill that may be :-)

Posting personal stories in a public forum is a choice and it comes with consequences just like anything else and it's something you have to be prepared to receive as a result. And sometimes, those consequences are a bit of backlash or maybe words that seem harsh - but when the intention behind them is pure, so is the message dear.; July 30, 2013 at 5:12 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Kayak Girl,
I understand that dear, however, "bad boys" come in all shapes, sizes and packages. They are not all covered in tattoos with chains dangling, riding a motorcycle.

Many are "gentlemen players," many are CEO's, many are very successful, well dressed, well spoken, educated and articulate men.

It's their use of the "rewards" system that quantifies their behavior a "bad boy" - as she discussed in that video.

So if the man, any man, drops a big reward early on (a great date full of compliments, passionate sex, etc.), then pulls back and dribbles rewards in little by little afterwards (a phone call here, the promise of another great date there, etc.) - and you find yourself hanging, anxiously awaiting his next "reward" to be issued (he's talking about it but not following through). . .then he's using the "bad boy" psychological tactic of "short term rewards".

And it's been my experience that, the more successful the man, the greater the chance of him having honed these skills - via his experience of power, success, career control, etc.

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.” ~ Lord Acton; July 30, 2013 at 5:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mirror:

Sleepover lady here… (LOL) So, I did exactly like you said… make no big deals about it etc. His son was still out of town on Sunday and my BF asked me to dinner and said (in a text) “Hey, and just spend the night after dinner if you want to”. We had a nice evening and we got back at his house around 10 pm. We both had to work the next day and he yawns and turns on the TV and gets into bed. He made no moves on me (we had relations 2 days before, tho). But that is the first time ever this has happened. Usually when we get an opportunity to be alone all night, it’s not taken for granted… So I pretended to drift off to sleep because it was awkward.

He walks me to my car the next AM and tells me he loves me, kisses me. I saw him again today for drinks after work, but he says he has to go, after a few hours. When we were first dating, we carried on until 8 or 9 pm - and by this time (about a week now since having relations) we’d find somewhere to park, if our kids were both at home.

I do feel like he’s trying since we talked (about me not “feeling like a GF, but just a date” …that you said I probably shouldn’t have said/or displayed emotions). Too late though, I did it and it does feel like he’s trying to please me, but going through the motions.

Or.. Is this typical male behavior anyway- after he’s got ya?; July 30, 2013 at 7:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Sleepover continued... I do want to pull back, as you've suggested before, because I just feel he is going through the motions right now. But here's the catch: I talked to him (like John Gray said to do in the book - about the cave thing, at an appropriate time. This is before I wrote here.) And, we agreed to try to spend more time together (because kids schedules were getting in the way) and we came up with these times.

But now I regret having that talk because I think it feels like a chore to him (I'm just guessing, not sure.) But if I pull back, he will notice it and I don't want to make him mad thinking he was trying and now I'm playing a game. (He's noticed it before and said why don't you just tell me what's wrong instead of making up excuses that you are busy...); July 30, 2013 at 7:37 PM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Lady Leo,
I am glad you have your sponsor to talk with in person.

I told you I was worried about you after reading your invite re: the online dude; I didn't tell you I also sent a prayer out to the universe for you because of that worry.

I saw your ignoring Ms. Mirror's advice as an in-your-face "f-u -- I'm going to do what I want, and I'm going to boast about it too."

I also saw your acting out with men as the hurt child in you screaming out for help -- which your adult was ignoring.

And I was angry with you for it all because I felt you were willingly and eagerly allowing too much risk for real damage to your life.

I would have kept my mouth shut, but you asked me, so I spoke my mind.

Ms. Mirror seems to ALWAYS have a gift when advising; many of us do not.

And Ms. Mirror is correct, feedback can be hard. Regarding the feedback I have received from this site, some of it I have thought was not accurate and were tough pills to take, but it gave me food for thought and eventually there were some pieces (if not all) that I came to understand were absolutely correct.

So, I'll just end my comment to you asking that you please take care of your self first.

@ Mltn,
I hear you 100%. You ARE doing the right thing. (And I don't have anyone to talk to about this stuff either.)

I had noticed a couple weeks ago that there were days that I HADN'T checked on my work computer to see if Virgo was 'signed in.' And it felt wonderful.

But the other day it crossed my mind again, I checked, and now have been checking everyday and starting to miss the axxhole again. Like you, we were friends before starting a ldr, but he was not who he portrayed himself to be (period!) And that's what I have to keep telling myself.

The man I fell for is nowhere to be found. It was all words... what I thought was real was really just all in my head because I believed what he said.

Continued; July 30, 2013 at 7:56 PM
Gemini 50 said...: Continued 2 of 2

@ Ms. Mirror,
And after writing to Lady Leo last night, I had a good cry thinking of Scorpio.

We've touched base a few times in the past couple months. We had a good conversation a few weeks ago, and again he was honest and clear that he doesn't want anything other than carefree sex. He was adamant that he only wants that with me, and hasn't/isn't seeing anyone else (but who knows -- words). He also told me he doesn't want to hurt me, he's not a "keeper," and again offered a negotiation for times to see each other per month (last time it was times per week) and I oddly find that change humorously sad in a smh kind of way.

We were supposed to get together the night I returned from my work trip a couple weeks ago, but he cancelled that afternoon due to him having to go on work trip early next day.

He sent a text the next night asking how my trip went and saying he had just gotten home and it was a tough day.

I didn't respond. The next afternoon I responded, "sounds like our trips were similar" and got nothing back.

I've been thinking a lot about his "I don't want to hurt you," comment and keep hearing a voice that is saying, "He is TELLING you in advance that he is going to hurt you! What are you, an axxhole?! or a masochist?! Believe him and protect yourself by walking away for good."

I don't know where my head will be at IF Scorpio does contact me again... I just know that I am PMS'ing and it sucks! My child is lonely and sad and tired of taking care of everything and I am doing everything I can to take care of her and try to find her comfort.

Oh, and Court Officer text me Sunday with a "Hello" (after that Friday night "I am done talking" mssg with no action.)

My work had some big changes that this new group I am working w/was managing this weekend, so I had to work from home. I was in the middle of multiple communications when C O's text came in and responded explaining such and asked if I could get back to him shortly.

Well, 'shortly' became 2 hrs when I remembered him again. I sent another txt and explained I was still in the middle of work stuff. (See Mltn, I still have a need to explain as well -- oy! Ms. Mirror is going to kick my axx!! lol)

C O responded he was leaving shortly for wake and had to do eulogy. I told him I'd stop what I was doing if he wanted to chat for a bit, but he declined and said he didn't want to break my momentum and "we'll talk later."

Haven't heard from him (no surprise).

So you see Lady Leo, many of us here are in the same flux as you with not knowing WTF we are doing or going to do... All I can say is, thank goodness for Ms. Mirror and her blog!

Thank you WOMAN!!; July 30, 2013 at 8:00 PM
@lONDONcALLING said...: @MOA, ladies and @Lady Leo...

I must interject regarding the Anonymous July 30 commenter. I have noticed a trend and I choose to step in to maintain the integrity of this blog being a safe place to share our innermost struggles. I understand where @Lady Leo is coming from.

I feel as though this Anonymous person, who I can identify, in the sense that they speak with a certain style, chooses to speak from a position of attack to @Lady Leo which places @Lady Leo in a position of defense. I know her style, she never signs off with a name and speaks up when she has something in a negative light to speak in regard to what some of us share.

I don't believe I have seen her speak positively in celebration of any of Gemini 30s, Lady Leo's, Hopeful with Men's, Mltn's, Virgo Pal's achievements and growth.

Correct me, I may be wrong by stating that I have never seen anything positive, she may very well have spoken out in support. If so, please point us all to those posts. However, anytime I see her comments, without scrolling down and without fail, I know it'll be unsigned and sure enough it is and I know its this specific commenter.

@MOA allow me to state for all ladies on here. Most of us are 'browsers' who come on here to read and learn from our collective experience.

However, there are those of us who are brave enough to put ourselves into the dating spectrum - SCARY, suffer misteps - SCARYY, then come on here to vent and hold themselves up to have their innermost feelings dissected - S.C.A.R.Y.Y!!!!

The reason they do so, is because they feel safe.

I'd like for us not to adopt a mob mentality here when speaking in light of our sister and lifting her, but telling her the truth in love.; July 30, 2013 at 8:15 PM
Lady Leo said...: Sorry MOA, I do not feel my reply was inappropriate. Just sharing my feelings. When reading something in writing, perhaps you didnt get my tone. Which was not negative at all.

Keep on sharing the light.; July 30, 2013 at 9:00 PM
PiscesGirl said...: Hi Mirror I posted previously about the restaurant owner...I've been having a bit of a breakdown this evening and the pint of rocky road ice cream i had only provided brief and temporary relief. I also might be a little more emotional than usual because I have my period but i'm here because a large part of my troubles is that I just feel so LOST in this world!!! Lost and Alone :(
I feel lost in the dating world.
Lost in the real world. I know I need to make changes but i'm not sure what my next move(s) should be. I feel so unequipped in this thing called life. Like i'm just missing the necessary functionary tools and things that a woman needs to be happy and successful and most importantly find love. Real love.
So I continue floating along while taking notice of every left hand that has a ring on it...I've actually never been the type of girl who's dreamt of growing up and getting married and having kids because growing up in a less than peaceful home with two parents who were always at each others throats you see that other dark side but i know now that it doesn't have to be that way in a healthy, loving, respectful relationship with two sane people. I know that I am a relatively smart girl and people tell me that i'm pretty and nice and I have a full-time job and take care of my responsibilities but I feel like I'm never adequate enough and im just a faker putting on this front...(continued); July 31, 2013 at 12:33 AM
PiscesGirl said...: I don't have a huge circle of friends or anyone that I feel close enough to confide in and share all my fears and insecurities without some judgment from them. I feel like i'm getting older with no direction and I just feel so lonely and scared. I would never admit this to ANYONE even family because I try to put on a strong persona but inside I feel like im breaking down more and more- if not already broken and its just getting worse as these days go by and as I get another day older. I'm kind of freaking out and worried that things will never happen for me the way they do for so many other females. Nobody new is coming into my life and nobody from my past is reappearing -other than a crazy stalker ex who I had to obtain a restraining order on. I feel like i've made soo many bad decisions as far as men go as well as other stupid things that i've done and continue to do that I wish I could change or go back in time and do differently... I'm just turning to you now for perhaps some words of hope and encouragement if you can provide me with any because sometimes this pain that I feel inside is just too much to bare...when will things turn around? I keep hoping for a better, brighter tomorrow but it seems like that day will never come...what's the reason for living and breathing if you cant ever know what it feels like to experience real love that isn't just one sided??a little more about myself..im 28, a pisces, no kids, trying to deal with a broken,rejected heart, low self esteem and lack of direction. I sometimes deal with my issues through excessive shopping and spending money and going out and eating but I have for the most part quit drinking, also and i say this with much shame i was still seeing on occasion an ex aries who really wanted nothing more than sex and was very frank in telling me so but those brief encounters provided temporary relief i felt wanted for that moment in time its like being touched and kissed is what my body craved (addictive state of mind) but a couple months ago i broke down in front of him (big mistake- im pathetic i know)i just felt so stupid and used and yes i was because i found pictures of him and a girl on a trip and her stuff left behind at his place so yes i freaked out and cried (my mom was right a woman cant have sex without our emotions getting involved as our brains are not hardwired like theirs)i wasn't the exception like i thought- after that he basically told me i fucked up because he thought we had an understanding that it was just sex and realizing my emotions were involved he's since just cut me off completely (yes i know he did me a favor but those brief encounters temporarily masked the lacking and needing feelings)i don't know what to do anymore
HOW do you stay motivated, happy and optimistic when you don't feel beautiful,loved or appreciated as a woman ..i know you've been through your fair share too Mirror-what helped you to keep on keepin on and stay strong when you felt like crumbling and falling apart???; July 31, 2013 at 12:33 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Sleepover Girl,
"But now I regret having that talk because I think it feels like a chore to him (I'm just guessing, not sure.)"

Yep, one of the reasons I do not suggest having them. You see, I'm not suggestion that you don't "speak" at all, I'm simply suggesting that you "speak" in the language that men understand and use themselves - that of ACTION. I'm simply suggesting that you save the words and have that "talk" via your actions instead.

"he will notice it and I don't want to make him mad thinking he was trying and now I'm playing a game."

Of course he's going to notice, that's the point dear - to be heard. You want to be heard, correct?

If you fear making him mad, that's a problem. Fear is steering the wheel and it signals there's a fear of abandonment here. You should not fear upsetting a man. Because if he truly cares for you, he'll understand and he'll admire you for your strength and LACK of fear in doing so.

Don't tiptoe around a guy. Your mindset should always be one of, "I'm prepared to walk if I have to because I love myself."

It shouldn't be, "I have no clue what to do and really, I don't want to do anything except be good, nice and smile - because I don't want to rock the boat or he may leave me."

If a guy can walk away from you over a disagreement like that dear - then I say let him walk, because he'll never be understanding towards you anyway.

Think about that, what if YOU walked away from HIM every time he had a concern?

"He's noticed it before and said why don't you just tell me what's wrong instead of making up excuses that you are busy"

Yea, that's a bit of manipulation. Men always say, "Just talk to me it's fine" - and they invite you to use your words. But then you do, and it pisses them off, upsets them, makes them feel differently, makes them feel like they're failing in some way - it's not good dear and I generally don't suggest using words to hold that conversation. Instead, I suggest holding that conversation and communicating via ACTION.

It's a subtle language, yet a language still. And it's a language where, not a lot of hurtful things must be said or divulged - things that do damage when you "let it all fly out." Instead, communicating via action sends subtle signals that others can read, bit by bit, little by little - as they begin to pull the message together. It's not delivered in the harsh manner that a "let it all out" talk delivers the message and there's generally no misunderstandings either - men truly understand that language.

So when a woman starts communicating via action, the man receives the subtle signals, he spends time putting the pieces together, and he eventually ends up INVITING YOU to express yourself MORE in his quest for answers.

Instead of YOU sitting him down like his mother and giving him a good talking to, LOL ;-)

It's still communication dear, it's simply an alternative method is all. And just because men ask for something doesn't mean they should get it. Consider all the women here who have had men invite them to call/text - only to find that when they do, they're ignored or dumped.

Just because he invites your words, doesn't mean that's what's going to solve the problem here dear. Men invite things upon themselves every single day that they really don't want. "Call me babe" or "let me know when you want to go out again." And then the woman does that - and the man is already gone.

He needs to see it (action) in order to hear it.; July 31, 2013 at 8:46 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50,
Just stay the course dear, and you will see.

And ladies, think of it like this, when making or having made mistakes - try to understand yourself by comparing your feelings with that of an addict.

I'm not trying to be insulting here, but this is a similar comparison. Think of what you're doing here as "recovery or rehabilitation."

Take it a step further and ask yourself, "What comes with recovery and rehabilitation?"

The answer is - relapse.

Yep, relapse. It's a part of the recovery process and it is to be EXPECTED. If change were easy, we'd all wake up new people overnight. The reality is that change is hard, requires due diligence and conscious effort and requires relapse to make the message "stick."

So ladies, when you find yourself relapsing, don't be embarrassed, don't be ashamed, don't beat yourself up and don't become defensive - instead, go easy on yourself, take in the information being transmitted and the messages that are there, and welcome them. If you toss them out later as not useful, that's fine, but at least you absorbed them and considered them fairly before doing so.

And then go easy on yourself. Be good to yourself, be kind to yourself, indulge yourself and focus on YOU. Listen to your gut and it will guide you :-); July 31, 2013 at 8:59 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @London Calling,
I hear you dear, and you could very well be correct. There have been gamers here before.

However, I would never tolerate a mob mentality here towards others and to me, that would include an attack without merit, and words without value being used. And as I see it, this isn't an attack, she invited the interactions and suggestions, and the words have merit, they have value. They may be harsh, I understand that, but I view them as tough love.

There's also another aspect that I'm responsible for protecting and that is - my words. Meaning, these tactics are only meant to be used on men that are treating you poorly. They are not meant to be used on all men. They are methods to keep your balance as a woman and to stand strong in your interactions with men who are attempting to bowl you over. They are not meant for gaming or manipulative purposes and I have to protect that. I'm not trying to turn women into gamers, I'm attempting to give them tools and methods to COMBAT gamers and stand strong - not to BECOME one.

And sometimes, when protecting that, it's necessary to correct and guide people on when/how they're using these tactics and for what purpose, to what end.

I know it can seem harsh dear, but the intention remains pure - strength, not games.

Lady Leo knows were all here supporting her. While our words of late may seem harsh, the intention remains pure - assistance and support. What value would this place hold if everyone simply blindly supported one another without thought to their actions or responsibility in that as well, ya' know?

Now I also realize others may see an opportunity in that, however, I don't view what was said by July 30th as without merit - there is value in her message.

As much as I want to support the women coming here and protect their anonymity when doing so, I also want to support the women here in speaking their mind with pure intention. And the fact that July 30th remains silent in response to all of this tells me this was not of mob mentality - or she'd jump in to defend herself and wage her battle.

Everyone is safe here speaking their mind, as long as their intention is pure :-); July 31, 2013 at 9:33 AM
Anonymous said...: Hiya London calling.

You're totally wrong hun on both counts. I'm not a regular commentator on the various people you have mentioned and my intention was to help Leo Lady like Mirror and Gemini are doing also.

I think Mirror has already addressed this communication so perhaps if you re-read you might find that you've misinterpreted it somewhat and the intention was pure and nobody wants to speak negatively of Leo lady they just want to help.

So let's please not turn this into something it's not :); July 31, 2013 at 9:37 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Pisces Girl,
"I feel like im breaking down more and more- if not already broken and its just getting worse as these days go by"

That's change dear. That's how it feels. It's a period of upheaval and transition. It will make you uncomfortable and it will make you anxious. Change is not easy, it's hard.

And you must break down that which is old, outdated and not working - in order to build anew.

"I'm kind of freaking out and worried that things will never happen for me the way they do for so many other females."

Things may appear that they're working out for other females, but you have no clue what those females are living with, dealing with and putting up with from men in order to have that. I'm not slamming relationships or marriage or anything here, I do believe in the institution. However, what goes on in public and what goes on behind the scenes are usually two very different things.

And just because society says you need a man and children to be happy - doesn't mean that's true. Me personally, I have found the most peaceful, enjoyable and least stressful times of my life - have been periods without a man in it.

"when will things turn around?"

When the transformation is complete and things are not longer in a state of flux - when you're ready dear, and when you stop expecting it to happen ;-)

In the movie, Under the Tuscan Sun, a female friend of the lead character explains the concept like this:

She was searching for lady bugs as a child, chasing them everywhere but always unable to catch them. One day, she gave up. She laid down in the grass and when she woke up - she was covered in lady bugs. . .they were all over her.

"what's the reason for living and breathing if you cant ever know what it feels like to experience real love that isn't just one sided?"

Unfortunately dear, not everyone in life gets to experience that. It's not a right, it's a privilege. And love comes in many forms other than a man.

"HOW do you stay motivated, happy and optimistic when you don't feel beautiful,loved or appreciated as a woman"

Why are you seeking that love of self from others? Why are you seeking that love of self from a man? When you do that, you set yourself up for disappointment. You love yourself FIRST, and a man ADDS to that. He should not BE that.

You love yourself, you appreciate yourself, you motivate yourself - you do not expect others to do that for you dear. They can't provide that for you, you provide that for yourself. If you place that much expectation onto a man, he'll bolt because the absolute pressure of knowing that someone else's entire world, entire reason for living, entire existence and entire happiness - lays squarely on your shoulders - is simply too much weight to bear.

"what helped you to keep on keepin on and stay strong when you felt like crumbling and falling apart?"

It was a long time before I reached that point dear, probably about 7-8 years truth be told I struggled. But during that process, after suffering many disappointments, I realized there's only one person you can count on in life - yourself.

It really boils down to something that simple. When you seek things outside of yourself to "fill" yourself up, you always feel empty because people will always disappoint you.

But when you provide those things to yourself, you don't have that "need" from others anymore - and you find peace of mind and contentment from that :-); July 31, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Anonymous said...: Hiya Mirror,

Thank you Mirror, I'm certainly not a mobster!! haha Thank you for your wisdom as it always to cuts through to the truth of the matter and I'm so glad you are steering the ship ;)

What value would this place hold if everyone simply blindly supported one another without thought to their actions or responsibility in that as well, ya' know?

- It would be like the blind leading the blind.

I think it's important that we women have a voice and voice that honours others and I suppose it was tough love but love all the same and I thought that was transparent in that message. I'm not going to defend myself as I've done nothing wrong but it does make you think god I'm sorry I said anything which defeats the whole ethos on here.

Thank you for your support and I hope others come round and realise that they've got the wrong end of the stick so to speak :); July 31, 2013 at 11:05 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

May I ask you if the same rules apply for on-line dating in terms of mirroring. I am trying to view it as socialising even though I've been told by a man that I shouldn't really be dating men unless I really like them. I have had some dates, I did like them pre-date and I was treating it as social as well but on the same hand I had an strong underlying feeling they were not the guys for me but I adopted a let's go and find out attitude and it's socialising in the meantime.

With what that guy's saying though I feel he has a point and you can be wasting not only their time but your own if it's just a social thing. Too be honest here and fair on myself I've had hundreds of e-mails and they are less than a handful I've replied to never mind go on dates with. So my point is that the ones I've gone on dates with I have found them attractive in someway and I've given it the benefit of the doubt by going out with them against probably my feelings that they're not probably going to be boyfriend material for me.

However, they want second dates, so I'm having to learn the art of letting them down gently. I hope I'm not sounding like a big-head here, it's the kind of response that was needed in a way after being let down from a great height with my disappearing man. You say the best revenge is doing well ;). However, it's confusing me this social thing because you have to look at whether you like them enough to go on dates with and that involves judgements. I suppose which is quite harsh really but an on-line reality. So I suppose where I'm confused is filtering through who I like you have to sort of think could I see myself with this person otherwise there's no point going on a date with them and I don't want to be leading people up the garden path as we all know what that feels like

CONT...; July 31, 2013 at 11:32 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Gemini 50,
I re-read your comment and this jumped out at me about Scorpio - and I think it's a valuable point to note here, for all the ladies:

"I've been thinking a lot about his "I don't want to hurt you," comment and keep hearing a voice that is saying, "He is TELLING you in advance that he is going to hurt you!"

Exactly. When a man says he doesn't want a relationship or he doesn't want to be committed or tied down or he just wants to be "friends" - do NOT misinterpret that as "he's just confused" or "he's just a commitment phobe."

Because that's not the reality. The reality is that he's WARNING YOU of his INTENTIONS for you.

He's basically saying, "This is what I'm after and if you're expecting something different - you WILL get hurt - and I will NOT be responsible for that - because I've already WARNED you."

Don't think you'll weasel your way into a man's heart ladies. Don't think you'll change him or "fix" him or clean him up and turn him into what you want.

Instead, face the reality of what stands before you and accept it for what it TRULY is - and then proceed accordingly.

Gem, I know you really like Scorpio and I get that, we've all been there and it's hard to break away. But the reality is that your attachment to him is somewhat holding you back and keeping you living in that pain - you're still crying tears for Scorpio dear :-(

Instead of moving forward and away from something being offered that you don't want, you look back over your shoulder hoping that in time, he'll reconsider. And when that doesn't happen with Scorpio, instead of moving forward, you then find yourself looking back over your shoulder at Virgo. Naturally, there's a loss of friendship there, but that will repair itself in time, you'll see. IF he was truly a friend, he'll experience that same feeling of loss towards you and he'll reach out to repair that which is broken - after he's had plenty of time to think on it himself and to EXPERIENCE that loss, as you are.

It's normal to do that, to hold out hope and to experience wishful thinking and to focus on the good aspects of the person and not the bad - to focus on the "what if" instead of the "what is."

Just know that this is all happening for a reason. And that reason is - to make the message "stick." Revisiting your past with him repeatedly and receiving the same message from him time and again - is actually making the message "stick" dear.

And it's all happening for a REASON.

So hang on tight and ride the wave that is life - and eventually, it will bring you to the shore ;-); July 31, 2013 at 11:39 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 31, 11:32AM,
"May I ask you if the same rules apply for on-line dating in terms of mirroring."

Yes, they do dear - that's how you maintain and equal and fair balance in ANY relationship you have - men, family, career, etc.

"I am trying to view it as socialising even though I've been told by a man that I shouldn't really be dating men unless I really like them."

Give me a break, LOL. These men - why they insist upon "schooling" women in what they should and shouldn't do is beyond me. Who the hell is HE to tell YOU what you should do? And how the hell are you supposed to KNOW if you LIKE someone - unless you DATE them first, LOL?

These guys nowadays are always WAY ahead of themselves. He's already assuming a woman dates you because you're "in" with her - he's overconfident in assuming that right off the bat. Instead of realizing that dating is actually done to GET TO KNOW the individual. It's not a guarantee - and way too many men nowadays are seeking guarantees (sexual ones) and assuming they've already got it "in the bag" - without even trying. Amazing.

"you can be wasting not only their time but your own if it's just a social thing."

I don't suggest dragging the dating experience out with a man you aren't clicking with for more than 3 dates. After 3 dates, if he's not it, then you keep dating - other men - and exploring your options. I don't advocate stringing someone along, instead, I suggest giving them a fair amount of time to see if they can make YOU happy. And if not, cease dating them after given a fair and equal chance - and continue dating others.

"I've given it the benefit of the doubt by going out with them against probably my feelings that they're not probably going to be boyfriend material for me."

That's fine. There's nothing wrong with that and men do it every single day - they explore their options, and you should too.

"I'm having to learn the art of letting them down gently."

Yes, it comes with the territory and it will build your strength and give you a voice of your own at the same time. It's a good thing, not a bad one.

"you have to look at whether you like them enough to go on dates with and that involves judgements."

Yep, that's responsible dating dear. And then you date them a few times to reach a final decision - and proceed accordingly - all the while, moving forward towards your goal.

"I suppose which is quite harsh really"

How is that harsh dear? That's life. We all experience rejection in life, it's part of the human experience. Get comfortable with it because men (and others) are already judging YOU every single day.

"you have to sort of think could I see myself with this person otherwise there's no point going on a date with them"

No, you don't put the horse before the cart. You don't make those decisions up front, enough to go on a date yes. But not enough to make a firm decision. To do that, you date them - and THEN you make your firm decision.; July 31, 2013 at 11:54 AM
Anonymous said...: CONT...

The situation is the ones that I'm more sure about that I like, a lot turn out to be players. I'm handling it ok with my filtering and not giving them an inch. I'm trying not to take things seriously but on the same hand you need you're wits about you.

This one guy I really couldn't call it for definite but my radar is up on the player type alert but I'm really not sure and how to handle this one. He approached me and he mirrored my responses. He tried to leave the ball in my court whether it was going to progress in terms of chatting on-line and I threw it back in his. He then stated that he wanted chat and then possibly meet up. When I agreed he disappeared. Now I know this is the nature and landscape of on-line dating and I'm not obsessing about it but at the same time I want to value myself and I don't want anyone playing games with me.

I don't know whether I messed up here but in all honestly there is a bit of a flaw in this message system and it has happened to me too that I think I've picked up the message off a member when it tells me I've got a message. I think I've already picked it up to find at the end of the thread there's another one. I'm not sure I dropped a clanger here by re-messaging him to let him know I sent one - as this is initiating.

Anyway I notice he's still not picked up messages at this point and he's on-line. Then he disappears off-line for about five days and I just deduced that he was a game-player and I moved on and went out on a date. Only to find today there is a message. Now I've not opened it for the time being as my feeling is I want to keep him wondering what's going on now. I promise I am not taking this too seriously as I've got other options but do I mirror him for the time he disappeared or just several days. I'm not going to disappear off-line though as I've got my own business to get on with, so it's difficult to know whether to open the message or not. He got away with that quite nicely as he eventually disappeared off-line and then opened it when he came back.

So do the same rules apply in on-line dating in terms of mirroring, I know that everyones got other options and that is the nature of the game but I don't want to be seen to jump back in even though this is just on-line.

Thank you; July 31, 2013 at 11:57 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 31, 11:32AM CONT,
"I'm trying not to take things seriously but on the same hand you need you're wits about you."

Yes, you do dear. It's your responsibility to yourself to look out for yourself when dating. Remain in a logical state of mind and avoid an emotional one.

"I want to value myself and I don't want anyone playing games with me."

When dating, you can't avoid this dear. Men will play games and they will try to play them on you. It's the nature of the beast. Rather than fight it, simply learn to combat it is all.

"He approached me and he mirrored my responses. He tried to leave the ball in my court whether it was going to progress in terms of chatting on-line and I threw it back in his. He then stated that he wanted chat and then possibly meet up. When I agreed he disappeared."

There should be no confusion in how to handle this one dear - you've filtered him and he's a player, a lazy man seeking something easy. And when he realized that HE was also going to have to put some EFFORT and WORK into this, and that it wasn't going to be easy - he bailed, as most players will do when you use filter techniques.

That's the entire point of using those techniques - and it sussed him out as a player - and off he went.

Don't question it - it worked.

"Then he disappears off-line for about five days"

That's about the length of time a player will spend on a potential "victim" LOL - about a week to "talk" her into bed and to "sell" himself to her and the "illusion" he wants her to have of himself - and when he doesn't receive instant gratification - he's back online. . .NEXT, LOL.

"I just deduced that he was a game-player. . .Only to find today there is a message."

Yea, because the woman he just spent 5 days "working over" either bailed on him or he bailed on her. . .so now he's back online, taking another shot, LOL.

"do I mirror him for the time he disappeared or just several days."

That's a personal choice dear, however, is this really the type of man you WANT to lend a SECOND chance too? He's already showed you inconsistency with his interest in you and he's already disappeared in a sense, only to circle back again. At this point, why bother? He's already given you enough insight into his character and his interest level in you for you to easily say "PASS!"

The point of filtering is to view the man's behavior and ACTIONS in order to gain more insight into his character as a man. And when the man is showing inconsistency with his level of interest and he keeps tossing the ball (the WORK) of moving the relationship forward onto your shoulders and he disappears and the reappears - you take the observations and that you make a decision as whether or not he's worth moving forward with. And those are all BAD signs. Signs that this guy will behave in exactly this manner when you date him, only he'll be extra nice for a bit longer, just long enough to get laid - before you see the cycle rinse and repeat itself in the real world versus the online world.

Mirror him if you're going to move forward - but don't hold out any great hopes on this one dear. His actions here are speaking loud and clear.; July 31, 2013 at 12:27 PM
Pisces Girl said...: thank you Mirror for your reply. Everything you said really did make perfect sense. You're right that you can't find happiness outside of yourself and that the grass isn't always greener on the other side and maybe the people who appear to have it all are actually suffering the most inside but we just dont see it. i loved the example you gave about the girl and the lady bugs and when she stopped trying to catch them they all came to her.i think i just need to stop waiting and hoping and start doing different things to get different results. i love the quote by Khalil Gibran that says that Pain is the Breaking of the Shell towards your understanding and there's another quote by Krishnamurti that says "Fear is not of the unknown, but of the loss of the known." i think they really apply to me -i hope to one day come to a place where i can be at peace and find happiness within myself because people absolutely will disappoint you in this lifetime even the ones that you would never expect it from-its hard to deal with but i think when your strong within yourself you dont let it faze you too much and you just keep it moving and call it a lesson learned-thanks again for your kind words it means a lot...
Pisces Girl Xo; July 31, 2013 at 1:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Good evening MOA, I am another of your avid followers from across the pond, and wonder if you might give me some advice. A former lover from 20 years ago contacted me via a social networking sight (yep, you know the one)at the beginning of this year. It was great to hear from him, and as we chatted mainly through messaging he informed me that the woman he married after our relationship had left him last year. He said they hadnt been getting on for a few years, but thats irrelevant. Anyway, long story short, he lives about 300 miles away and after IM and phone calls for 6 weeks we met up for a weekend, and yes we were intimate. It was like we hadnt been apart. Following that weekend we carried on chatting, although not as frequently, and recently met up again for another weekend. He is a farmer, and also lost his driving licence earlier this year, so, yes, it was me who had to go to him on both occasions. He has always been the one to initiate our conversations when messaging and i have never pushed for anything more than what we have. Never had "the talk", and have basically been hopefully fun and good to be around. I have kept our chats light hearted also unless he has changed the tone. He has always been popular with the ladies and was never short of female company. Even during this last weekend together, they all flocked around him, but i noticed that he kept his eyes constantly on me as i was talking to his friends. Anyway, driving home from our weekend he texted to ask how i was getting on with the drive etc and said he was felling abit sad that i had left. He then sent a text a day or two later yo say that he wasn't ignoring me but his home phone and computer were both down due to a violent storm which had blown everything. I do believe that as i had the same. We chatted about 5 days ago and all seemed fine, and then nothing......crickets !!!!. I havent contacted him as you always say that it should be the man who initiates, and i haven't pursued. So my question is, do i sit tight, or do i write this off and move on.; July 31, 2013 at 5:23 PM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Ms. Mirror,

You are absolutely correct on all counts.

I have been “managing” my interaction w/Scorpio with caution and not jumping towards recklessness. We have been friendly and casual. I didn’t mention it here because I do believe that we have to take the lessons we learn and apply them (period). No drama, no pomp or circumstance, just apply the lessons we learn. That is the action of an appreciative student and shows respect for the learning process, the message, as well as the messenger.

When I wrote Scorpio’s name in my note to Lady Leo, seeing it on paper, just opened up the “want” and made me sad. And hormonally I am so heavy with life’s demands right now, that my sadness needed a release.

Now, tonight, I’ve been thinking how our (women’s) hormones affect our emotional swings. And wonder if our cycles are meant to ensure we feel deeply, and if our deep emotions are necessary for us to sustain and bring life.

Think about how guys think. If procreation was up to them, this planet would have been empty a long time ago (sorry guys, no insult intended).

Maybe women have to feel emotional and feel their deepest wants and needs in order for life to continue. If we didn’t give a shit as much as men didn’t give a shit, humanity would be F’d.

And, again, I mean no disrespect to men, but men think differently than women (and if you are a man, I think you will agree with that statement). I don’t know many men who dig into the deepest depths of their thoughts very often, yet we women seem to do it at least once a month. (Am I wrong? If I am, tell me!)

And by going to our deepest feelings we are going to our core, our soul, and to our humanity.

I’m not sure where this thought process will go, but I think I’m on to something.

In regards to Scorpio telling me he doesn’t want to hurt me. You are absolutely right with his intent Ms. Mirror. His candor is one of the reasons I am attracted to him. He is one man that has passed thru my life that hasn’t said one thing, and done another. He has let me know that he knows who he is and he doesn’t apologize for it. He is humble, yet he is driven. He is driven to reach his goals without asking for help, or allowing anyone to side track him.

I am also attracted to his spirit.

Sounds like a great guy, right? Well, he’s also a “surprise baby” of 8 w/an alcoholic father who died young and a mother with her hands full. He spent high school in the building where they move the “bad” kids (can’t think of the name of it). He looks like a kick-ass Harley dude (yes he has a Harley), smokes, drinks tequila straight with Budweiser chaser, has had his share of brawls, ran whisky as a kid, rents a cellar apt from a friend, never married, no kids, and has served time.

He’s also worked at his place of employment for 14 yrs, starting as the parking lot carriage-guy to now where he is a dept manager. His goal is to have his own store. He’s also said he wants to move to the Carolinas to start fresh… at 48 yrs old, this man has plans for himself and I so hope he achieves them.

Continued; July 31, 2013 at 9:02 PM
Gemini 50 said...: Now, compare that to Virgo. Retired after 30+ yrs in USAF reserves, has medals for service, is a manager of his organization, owns his own home, two great adult kids, married for 20 yrs (unhappily), divorced, quiet and reserved and looks like the perfect clean cut gentleman.

But Virgo is a SOB who is judgmental of others, hates homosexuals (actually told me he’d disown his son if he was gay), and thinks his shit does not stink, etc. He has an arsenal of weapons fit for an army and wants to dig out a shooting range underground from his cellar.

When I first met his daughter, who is a successful trade lawyer, and absolutely adorable 36 yr old, I was unnerved because she spoke in baby-talk, and it didn’t make sense. After a while, I realized Virgo trained her that way. If she wants his affection, she needs to be meek and mild. It was unsettling; yet, with time, different things just seemed to fall into place for explanations. Virgo could not get me to be that meek and mild submissive woman… he certainly tried. So he punished me instead via his comments and neglect. And instead of fighting with him, as I think he expected, I finally just exited the ride and walked away. No drama, nothing. (I am so proud of myself for that.)

I don’t know if Virgo will contact me again… and I don’t know how I will respond if he does. I know I’m tired of being nice to him. He doesn’t deserve it.

Your right that my feelings towards Scorpio is holding me back Ms Mirror. But I do think in time, at least I hope in time, being held back will diminish. Just the constant reminder of, “I don’t want to hurt you,” playing in my head is helping. And what those words mean to me is something that you’ve explained here in one of your articles or comments, “I don’t want a relationship,” really means, “I don’t want a relationship WITH YOU.” I think the same applies here. “I don’t want to hurt you,” really means, “You’ll do for now, but you are not the one.” That’s what I’m trying to sink into my brain.

I so appreciate being able to write this stuff and try to put some order to the process. This morning I had a familiar dream of running out of step with everyone… I’ve had this dream before - it’s as if my limbs are being constrained by outside pressure that keeps my cadence out of whack preventing my ability to run. The feeling is real, and with everything going on with me right now, it also makes sense.

And to all the ladies here who are questioning their actions to take care of yourself, I rec’d a nice gift from a manager of a dept I am working WITH locally while I work in this new job nationally for the summer. She's actually the one who requested I do this job for the summer (which was a surprise to me because I've never been part of her "clan.") Anyway, I had to meet w/her regarding this past weekend, and during our discussion I explained my pushback defending field employees during the HQ meeting a couple weeks ago. When I explained how bad I felt, she said, “Think of the alternative. Think of how you would have felt if you DIDN'T say anything.”

She was right. I would have felt like a traitor to the hard working people whose backs our company was and is built on, and I would have felt like a coward and traitor to who I was. It would have eaten at me to know I had given up my self and abandoned all of the employees who have become my friends in order to please these complete strangers who were in powerful positions but really, who were axxholes who only cared about stroking their own egos (sound familiar?)

So, ladies, if you are not comfortable with the actions you are taking now to take care of yourself, it is really the lesser of two evils… you may not feel comfortable with it, but not doing it (“Think of the alternative”) is much, much worse.

{hugs}; July 31, 2013 at 9:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Goodness, Mirror has really dropped some serious knowledge today.

Pisces Girl, I feel ya. I'm feeling exactly the way you do, but at 37. Mirror's response to you is amazing, I just want to print it off, frame it, and begin to live my life by it.

I read every day, but don't comment much. The guy who brought me to this site back on Valentine's Day reappeared on my BDay, several weeks ago (online) to wish me a good BD, etc. I waited 5 days to reply to his email, and he disappeared again until two days ago, when he "liked" one of my comments on the forum, where we met. The five days I waited to reply was the first chance I've had to try out NOT jumping the gun, and I must say -- it felt good. I felt like I put my needs/feelings first instead of thinking "Oh, I'd better reply quick or he'll be gone again." I realize now, his leaving and reappearing are not within my control, so it was just a mild disappointment when he flew away again - instead of the confusion and heartbreak I'd usually experience.

I'm not courageous enough yet to try online dating, but I'm trying to put the "behave like a prize catch" philosophy into action in real life situations as a start. (Like the gym, work, etc). We shall see...

Hoopsgirl76; July 31, 2013 at 10:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mirror,

I am the Pisces girl with the Aries Male experience, the one who clearly used me(long story on the 4th of June, plus short story of my initiating contact on the 5th of July..)

I just thought I'd share what happened afterwards as I think it proves yet again how right you are and how it really is best to just let a man leave, when he decides to disappear...

So after I basically initiated contact by liking some of his pics on Instagram, he contacted me on it to ask me how I am.. I replied, said i'm well and asked him how he is.. He then asked me to text him because his phone got stolen and he no longer has my number... Please bear in mind here that my intentions was one of a possible friendship and that I thought it might help me to see him again.. To replace his pedestal with reality, kind of thing...

So, only the next day I texted him, simply saying "here's my nr again" He then replied with, what I thought was a pretty lame apology simply saying, he is so sorry about everything... and then asking me what I've been up to.. I didn't say anything about the apology and simply said Ive been very busy but well, and that I was just busy with a few things at the moment but that we should catch up soon... He then immediately deemed it necessary to tell me that he now had a place of his own and that we could catch up anytime ;)... (yeah right)

a few hours later he then text-ed me saying that i could visit him that night... I said that I already had other plans, perhaps some other time.. he then replied "lucky you, I would have bitten every part of you" (shocking I know!) anyway.. I just replied saying "you wish!"

Then, three day later, Tuesday,
(after he first tried asking another girl i know out) HE text-ed me again asking if we could hang out the following evening.. I said I can't, but that we could meet on Saturday... he said he'd let me know.. So only on Thursday he texts me again saying Saturday wont work for him, the only time he has would be that night after 6pm... I told him I had other plans, he replied "Argh! what about the Friday evening then?" and again I said no sorry, other plans but we could meet the following week, preferably during the day... He waited a while to reply and then we agreed on the following Wednesday... He then said he cant wait to give me hugs...

On the Sunday he texted me again trying to get me over to him that evening... again, didn't work.. We joked around a bit and he said that he was going to eat me up (now I don't know, but to me that does not sound innocent) I said "not if i tie you up in a samurai knot first" he thought that would be fun but i told him to be very scared :) he then asked if i was going to do nice things too, and i said... Yes, maybe I'll pat you on the back... he just laughed..

Cont..; August 1, 2013 at 6:27 AM
Anonymous said...: Cont..

Just to note, that i was having such a laugh with this, because it was so obvious that all he wanted was to get lucky here, there were no attempts in between for any real conversations, no "how are you's" or "how was your day".. nothing just days of silence in between trying to get me over to his place... and even tho i was being admittedly a bit flirty I was actually serious every time I suggested that he wouldn't be able to touch me..

So then Wednesday came, and instead of going to his place I suggested that we go for a drink, to a nice place close to his home, where we could sit outside because it was such a nice day.. he then said, we could , but its a bit of a budget issue for him.. so i offered to buy him a drink.. So we met and it was nice to just chat a bit, i told him of my definite plans of moving to another country in 3 months.. etc.. he immediately seemed a bit uncomfortable about it, as though he now has no angle to play me with anymore.. and I kid you not, 45 minutes later he already had to go....

But, about 5 minutes later, and this takes the cake, he texts me saying " it was awesome seeing me again, perhaps we could be alone together again and take our time this time, I could come over to his place a little later if I like?" (speechless!) I replied " it was nice to see you too, and, soooo not gonna happen! :)"

Needless to say i haven't heard from him since, about 2 weeks now.. he did however unfollow me on twitter, but, not on FB or instagram..?

But, what I can say from this that I spent so many months worrying, crying, missing this idiot... over analyzing things in my head, about all the thing I did wrong, instead of seeing him and his actions for what they are and just letting go and allowing him to leave!!!

I do have to thank you though mirror, because if I haven't found your site and advise I would most likely have tried to initiate more contact here, probably would have gone to his place, probably would have made the same mistake, and probably would have found myself in exactly the same situation.. just as you warned me would happen..

instead, I feel kinda happy I was strong enough to hang back, see his actions and, this time, say no! :-)

Wondering what you think about this mirror? I cant help but wonder if I will hear from him again... although, this time I'm not waiting... xoxo; August 1, 2013 at 6:28 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous July 31, 5:23PM,
Never sit and wait for a man to decide if he likes you or not dear.

You keep on keeping on, moving forward - and if he wants you, he'll come find you and catch up to you :-); August 1, 2013 at 9:16 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous August 1, 6:27AM,
Honey, I gotta' tell ya' - you exhibited some serious strength here and you set some serious boundaries down with him, and you did it all via ACTIONS with very little use of words being necessary at all. . .and he "heard" you - it was absolutely perfect :-)

And given that this was a man you were enmeshed with at a previous point emotionally, to see you stand that strong during not only verbal communications but then following through during a face to face event - very inspiring to other women here dear.

Ladies, you can all do this - and reap the rewards of self-confidence, self-love, self-growth and increased self-esteem and sense of value and self-worth that come from having done so.

If you handle yourself with this type of strength, control and poise with each man you meet, you're never going to experience the feeling of lack of respect ever again dear. No unworthy man is ever going to get close enough for that opportunity as you are protecting yourself properly now and using logic versus emotion to make your decisions.

And even though this guy would probably never admit it, I guarantee you he has a increased respect for you now. He's probably thinking, "Hmm, I was wrong about her." And good, that's what he should think.

The minute you told him your intentions of moving to another country, he bailed. And that's because he knew you were moving forward and going places in life and you weren't going to be naive and get all hung up in his stupid little mind games and become one of his regulars in his rotation. He knew you were advancing in life and that his little rotation wasn't going to be good enough for you - and he was right, you're too good for him dear ;-)

There's a 50/50 chance he'll reappear. These types usually do because well, they hit "dry spells" LOL and that's when they dig through their modern day version of a little black book - their smartphone - and they hit you up with a lame, "Hey."

On the flip side, he may realize you're going places and feel that he has nothing to offer so he may let this lag as a result of him feeling "less" now - which is fine, if that's the case, let that be and let HIM live with it.

All in all, a VERY VERY valuable life lesson for you dear that has taught you many valuable things ;-); August 1, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror @Anonymous July 31, 11:32AM here,

Thank you again for your sound quality advice. I'm taking on board what you're saying about this on-liner who disappeared. I do think my curiousity will get the better of me and I will open his mail to see what he has to say, I bet it will be something lame and something designed to try and mess with my head. I'm not arsed...

Last night I took great enjoyment in being on-line and knowing that he was and that he would see that his mail is un-opened. I mean he might not give a shit because he may have dozens on the go but I bet he will have noticed...

So he can wonder now, what I'm up to and has she received the message. I will keep him waiting and open the mail next week, mirroring his time and depending on what he has to say, I will think about whether to respond or not.

There is this other one and I was very naughty a few weeks back and I initiated an e-mail. Now I knew that I shouldn't have been doing it and hold my hands up that it was poor self-control.

I know what's going on, is my needs were driving me and it is like an addiction trying to get them met. As on there I've had hundreds of mails but less than a handful I'm half-interested in. Most of them I wouldn't date them in a million years and they maybe nice blokes but there has to be enough attraction to go on a date with them and you can't force that if it's not there.

The dates I've been on like I said in my last comment deep down I knew that they were probably not for me and I know you said this below

'No, you don't put the horse before the cart. You don't make those decisions up front, enough to go on a date yes. But not enough to make a firm decision. To do that, you date them - and THEN you make your firm decision.'

and I agree, that say I was really atttracted to someone and it was a definite yes I want a date, then I would have to hold myself back and make my decision after dates with them.

However, with the options I'm going out with and I don't mean to be rude and it could be looked upon as the best of a bad bunch then, I have difficulty applying what you say because I'm not sure I should be going on dates with them if I'm really not sure with an underlying probably not for me.

So back to be initiating I think I did it out of my need as he was a bit nicer than the others. What happen is he replied and was really friendly but I could tell he wasn't willing to put the work in probably did'nt help that I e-mailled him taking the masculine role. Then he said he was a laid back, go with the flow type and I thought oh hello here we go I think I will take my leave on that one and I didn't respond back as it was case closed for me. Thinking about it he wasn't that nice away.

Cont...; August 1, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi mirror
I've got a guy who is doing the disappearing act on me right now,he said I was special,he said he wanted to see me, we went out a few times and now he has gone.

It's just the worst feeling,I'm finding it really hard I don't understand how guys treat someone this way.

I want to reach out again because I feel like he has forgotten about me,but I know I shouldn't.
Do u think he knows he has ignored my previous text?
My emotions are all over the place :(; August 1, 2013 at 10:48 AM
Anonymous said...: Anyway fast-forward three weeks and I get a mail off him, same day as the other clown!!

My thoughts were initially, bearing in mind, I don't know what he has to say yet, as not opened it. It's took him three weeks to get the gumption to pursue me and it doesn't make me feel that good that he's obviously had a look around and nothing's amounted to much and he's decided to give me a go. I know it is the nature of the game to have options on there but I'm learning to treat myself as a prize and I've told the men that I've had dates with that they should view it as a privilige haha. I do feel that this last one was probably lazy and I shouldn't take it personally that he's just decided to look me up, I think at the time he maybe deduced it was too much work and when I didn't respond/continue he though he'd check out the easier options.

Anyway another one in the mailbox! It's great to be dealing out consequences to these men. I'm only doing it in case that they're treating me poorly, I don't have to put up with it. So it's great to turn the tables and have them waiting and wondering and I feel stronger not being a pushover and like that other lady said, in the past I'd be thinking I better hurry up and get back to them in case they go.

With this one I'm going to open his mail in a few days as he hasn't disappeared but nonetheless I'm going to proceed with caution if at all.

On the subject of needs Mirror, I'm very aware that I'm looking to the external to fulfill my needs when I do realise I have to fulfill them myself and from within.

I meditate everyday (long-term) and it is a really grounding centering meditation and I really think it helps. However, it is a bit frustrating with my efforts and awareness that fulfilling my needs from within well that is not becoming a reality, it's what I'm working to but I'm still searching out of myself as it's not integrated within - if that makes any sense.

My final confession as I noticed someone who ticked all my boxes on there and he'd viewed my profile and me his and like a kid in the sweet shop and because of this need and the lack of eligible men I e-mailled him. I totally failed - in initiating again I knew it was the wrong thing to do and he didn't get back to me, that will teach me.

So I've only done it twice and slapped wrists. I'm not going to be to hard on myself for the mistakes but it has illuminated the work I still need to do. As when the guys come along that I like more then, I've given myself away by initiating and pursuing in case they go and although these two incidents are minor it's highlighted a life-long pattern with men.

Thank you Mirror; August 1, 2013 at 11:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Thank you dear Mirror, it really means a lot to me to hear that from you! :-)

(in reply to your message at 9:47 AM); August 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM
Unknown said...: Thank you Mirror, for this website. I hope you can help me. Dating seems harder than it was years ago. LOL. I met a man about 1 1/2 month ago. We are both 35. I thought he was handsome but didn't really feel any sparks, but after a few dates and great conversations, I started to like him more.

He was gentleman. We agreed to meet for a movie and dinner on our first date. After the first date, he asked if it was okay if he could pick me up on our dates. I was okay with that. He would open the door for me every time. We went out for dinner, movies, and walks in the park with ice cream.

He would text me every day to see how my day went and made plans for our dates. Our texts and conversations were sometimes flirty but nice and innocent at the same. But majority of the time our conversations were casual and just getting to know one another. He was always the one initiating the texts. I didn't sense or see any red flags.

I slept with him on our 4th date. He would still text as usual and still made plans for dates. It wasn't until the 3rd time we slept together. All of a sudden he said he was beat because he went dirt biking all morning and sex drained him. This was the moment my intuition kicked in. I felt something wrong and I was right. I felt like he was trying to kick me out after sex. I was shocked but didn't show him that I was. He said he was sorry and hoped that I was not mad. I calmly told him I wasn't mad and that I understood. He walked me out and we kissed goodnight. On my way home, he text again to apologize and said he was beat and it must be him getting old. I text nicely back and said that it was not a problem and that one day, old age was going to catch up with me as well.

He text the next day to say "hi" and that was it. The following day nothing. The next following day, he text to see how my day went. We exchanged 2 texts each only. Today nothing. I know it has only been 1 day since he hasn't text me, but my gut is telling me something else.

Thanks to this post, I have not initiate any contact with him what so ever, and I don't plan on it either. I went into this with no expectations because I didn't want to get hurt, but man, it feels crappy. I feel so dumb and used. He played all his cards right and seemed so genuine.

I guess what threw me off was that he always let me know in advance what his plans were, just in case I wanted him to take me hiking on different trails (which he offered), and the fact that we could arrange to see one another when our kids weren't with us. He was different from all the other a-hole I've dated.

On the night of our last encounter, he was sharing with me about a movie he went to see with his daughter and his son's pictures being posted on a motor cross website. He offered to take me hiking this weekend, but I couldn't because I will be dropping my kids off at the airport out of town.

What went wrong? Why would he invite me over, knowing he went out and did a strenuous activity, to just basically kicked me out?

Thanks in advance! Syd; August 1, 2013 at 6:35 PM
Lady Leo said...: Thank you Londoncalling, I appreciate your kind words. :)

everyone is entitled to an opinion. Most days I don't attach myself to what others think of me or my motives. I do try to digest when people share their experience with me so I can learn to do better. I was in an extreme state of emotional confusion when I reached out to this forum for help. I am not exactly resistant and pretty teachable, but to each his or her own. I am as susceptible to emotional relapse as anyone else here.

I've been in the ER with a good friend who has suffered a stroke like attach. Unsure at this time. So Im drained emotionally and practicing extreme self care now.

My best to everyone.; August 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM
KK said...: Mirror and everyone,
I just heard back from the Taurus I've been speaking to - he seemed to take a 'break' of sorts and it took him 11 days to reach out again. But this was his message (and I don't want to pounce on it just yet, so I came here first):
"I'm really sorry for the sporadic and spread-apart replies! It's just that I have been so busy for the past couple weeks that at the end of the day I can barely write well and with me.... it's either do a job well or don't do it at all.
Well things are going to quiet down late next week so I shall have some more time to dedicate to this. However, I feel as though it would be nice to meet up sometime as well. How would you feel about that?
I have to say that I am NOT into the conventional cliche coffee / movie date thing (another motto of mine - if you're going to do something, do it right don't half-ass it)... so if we're going to meet up let's do something interesting. Do you play pool? Do you bowl? Anything you'd be interested doing?
You're easily one of the more interesting people I've met on here and I'd like to continue getting to know you."

This is so bittersweet for me right now, I'm flattered and happy he is considering ME, but I'm also kind of sad because I honestly haven't had anything like this happen in a long time. Should I mirror him as well and take my time responding, or in this case since he's trying to move things forward, reply whenever I feel like it? - My gut is telling me to mirror and take 11 days as well. And it just so happens anyway that the next couple weeks for me are going to get busier, so I wouldn't be free for that 'date' til mid-month.

I did feel for a while like the online dating hit a snag or I was going through a 'dry spell', I never mentioned anything here though, as to not appear anxious or anything. But it was making me anxious - and my attention was elsewhere for a while.

He also said something else which I don't know what to think of really, I don't know if I should 'read' into it, but he did take down his pictures and made his profile more 'cookie cutter' due a coworker of his appearing on the site as well, and he said he was mortified - here I am thinking WHY? Who cares really, it's nothing to be embarrassed of or ashamed of. Maybe it's just an ego thing?

Anyway, as always would be curious to know what you think and the best way I should proceed now with this.

Have a good weekend everybody!; August 2, 2013 at 12:34 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Syd,
Well, part of the problem may be that he received sex a bit too early, before having enough time to behave consistently over an extended length of time.

I know it's been about a month and a half, but you've already slept with him about four times or so by a month and a half - so when was the first time you slept with him? Two weeks in? If so, way too soon dear. I normally suggest waiting until the 8th or 9th date, if not longer. That way, there's plenty of time to observe his behavior to see if he remains consistent and working at it throughout that period - to prove he's genuinely interested.

There's a great book, The 30 Day Love Detox, and in it, she conducted a study and found that:

1) "The longer couples delayed sex, the more exclusive the relationship."

2) "Men who engage in sex within the first month (30 days) of dating, are 4.5 times more likely to be non-exclusive later."

3) "90% of fast movers aren't together one year later."

4) "24% of couples (1 in 4) who waited one month were together a year later."

5) "That number jumps even higher for those who waited even longer, with 1 in 3 couples being together a year later."

6) "Sexting and nude photos are basically "sex" to a guy as he's receiving sexual gratification from them - and his ingrained double standard will secretly make him devalue you."

And regarding this question dear, as much as it hurts, the answer could be - because he's receiving sex from the time spent together:

"Why would he invite me over, knowing he went out and did a strenuous activity, to just basically kicked me out?"

Naturally, he's going to go through with the plans if the end result and reward waiting for him at the end of the evening is sex, ya' know? You want "time spent" and he's programmed for "sex spent." So to him, it's not a big deal because HIS needs were fulfilled, even though he's given NO thought to fulfilling YOURS :-(

I know it hurts, but stand strong. If you charge for him right now, you can guarantee his firm disappearance. Give him plenty of time and space, remain silent, and when he does reach out - pull WAY BACK. DO NOT jump on his next call/text - take a day or two to get back to him. Signal to him that your last encounter and the way you were treated by him during it are NOT OKAY via your ACTIONS (save your words, they'll only fall on deaf ears and make him run).

And the next date you go on with him, none of this "back to my place" stuff. Go on the date, have a good time, thank him and be graceful - then excuse yourself to go home for an early evening due to early plans the next day (make them up if you have to).

THAT will tell you if he's understanding or not. Does he freak out when he doesn't get his way (sexual rewards) or his he understanding? Does he realize that you were understanding with him for similar circumstances and is he willing to return that to you?

If the answer is no dear - then he's a selfish man that quite possibly went the "gentleman player" route to get you into the sak. And to avoid that happening in the future, wait a bit longer. It's a personal choice, but I generally suggest at least 8-9 dates. There's a higher likelihood that a man that sticks around for 8-9 dates is genuinely interested, likes you as a person, sees you as a person (not a sexual object), and enjoys spending time with you. This also forces a man to really get to know you as a woman, as a human being.; August 2, 2013 at 10:29 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @KK,
Hmm, while I can appreciate his explanation and apology, that is considerate and appropriate, it's his choice of "date" that is somewhat concerning to me.

"I have to say that I am NOT into the conventional cliche coffee / movie date thing (another motto of mine - if you're going to do something, do it right don't half-ass it)... so if we're going to meet up let's do something interesting. Do you play pool? Do you bowl? Anything you'd be interested doing?"

He's saying he doesn't want to "half ass" it - but that's exactly what he's doing, particularly for dates that are still in the beginning stages. Taking a woman out to play pool and/or go bowling. . . .are NOT ROMANTIC dates. They are "buddy" dates and activities that couples do together AFTER becoming a couple.

The are also the types of dates that "distract" a lot - meaning, there's no time to sit across a table and get to know one another. There's no "quiet" time to bond and connect. Instead, there's a bunch of activity going on that's really distracting to the bonding, connecting and communication. And to me, his comfort level with those types of dates is somewhat signaling that he prefers a bit of "detachment" on a date and doesn't like romantic dates because. . .well, they're personal - they're intimate - they're close.

And I realize that many women prefer "activity" types of dates as well, however, what everyone needs to realize is that those types of dates, particularly for the early stages, are not really the types of dates that create an atmosphere condusive to bonding, connecting and communication. Because there's the distraction of the activity and the non-romantic atmosphere that the activity is usually performed in, they're "detached" types of dates - that permit some "distance" between the two as opposed to "intimacy."

So this is telling me that he prefers an atmosphere that permits a bit of "distance" between himself and the woman. He may be a tad "emotionally unavailable" if he prefers a non-intimate setting like that for a date. It also tells me that he's more concerned about himself than he is with impressing a woman and shooting to make her feel special and fulfill her needs (that of romance, connection and a secure atmosphere for her to get comfortable knowing a man in).

Follow your gut here. If it's telling you to mirror him, then that's what you do dear. Because he's disappeared for almost two weeks here already and now, he's signaling that he prefers non-intimate dates and wants "buddy" types of dates instead.

Those are his ACTIONS, listen to what they're TELLING you ;-)

Because there's a high likelihood that that same "energy" overlaps into his relationships as well - an energy of detachment, distraction and the preference of a "buddy" - as opposed to the energy of intimacy, bonding and connection.

He may be an emotionally unavailable man that behaves a bit detached and wishy washy and is seeking a "buddy" type situation instead of a real relationship.; August 2, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

Without going into all the details, I'm kicking myself here as reading the above post about sexting and it being well just like sex to a guy.

I had this situation whereby the guy encouraged the sexting and a bit charming. He had tried it in the beginning and I said that I didn't really know him and I did'nt want to create a wrong impression and he seemed cool with it. As time went on he tried it again I think and I went along with it against my gut feeling and I got a bit carried away and it was totally wrong I know now and I will never do it again. He was leading me to believe that something more was going to come of our relationship and I suppose I let my self be manipulated a bit probably out of fear of losing him as he was a bit unreliable. It's not like he was forcing me against my will and I did enjoy it at the time (but it was very silly) with a view to the relationship developing properly. Which I know now finding this website is the wrong way to get a man as you say they secretly devalue you.

Before I really beat myself up for my foolishness and think it is my fault that I lost him as he's disappeared, so ironically going along with something to keep someone has made me lose him but would I have lost him anyway if that's what he was after. Do you think he is a player encouraging that behaviour in the beginning and do you think that is all he was after? I'm really missing this guy he didn't disappearing around a sexting time. I'd given him an ultimatum and we were going to meet up and he was really looking forward to it and then he disappeared out of nowhere and I've done a month and a half no contact.

However, what I'd like to know is - if a man starts encouraging you down that pathway does it really mean that they are no good anyway and the outcome probably would have turned out the same i.e. disappearance even if I had not go along with it and he was after sex?

Do you think that the man who encourages this sexting is only after sex period?

I don't want to beat myself up unecessarily, I really miss him and I think it's my fault that I've ruined it by being a silly girl and had I not go along with it he might of pursued me as a proper girlfriend? Or do you think he's just a player, he did mention photos but I said a definite no to that one and he said it was ok and not to worry.

Thank you; August 2, 2013 at 11:44 AM
Unknown said...: Mirror,
Thanks for your words of wisdom! It's so breath-taking and refreshing to know that there is a post such as this for women to share their experiences and at the same time teach all of us a great value.

Well, he text me last night to ask how I was doing, but I ignored it. I am so turned off by his actions, that if I decide to text back, it won't be until a few days, or maybe it's not even worth it. His actions left a disgusting taste in my mouth.

Where I went wrong with this man was that I compared him too much with my ex. Family oriented, semi-momma's boy, southern gentleman, sweet, genuine, never tried to kiss or touch me, and treated me like a woman should be when she is being courted on dates. I slept with my ex-husband on our first date and he stood by me for 11 years. Lesson learned here. Men are not equal.

Again, thank you Mirror and all the ladies on here, who helps woman like myself become stronger everyday.; August 2, 2013 at 12:11 PM
KK said...: I do agree it's not really romantic and I thought about it last night and did think to myself "that would be distracting - how would we even talk and get to know eachother?".
On the flip side of that, I'm also not into the coffee/movie dates, I do prefer something more interesting, something fun, something where you can relax - be yourself.
It would also be our first 'meeting', so maybe to him he doesn't want to 'invest' so much - I know that sounds bad, but it also makes some sense to me. I could share the same sentiment where I don't want to invest that much into a man I hardly, or don't even know.

I'll have a couple weeks to think about this further, I feel like I need to find a balance between something 'romantic' and actually worth my time, but also to keep it light and fun and not the 'cliche'. I'm open to any suggestions - how would you communicate to a man that you're not just a 'buddy'? Because I definitely don't want to go back there again.; August 2, 2013 at 12:15 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous August 2, 11:44AM,
"Do you think he is a player encouraging that behaviour in the beginning and do you think that is all he was after?"

Absolutely dear. NEVER listen to a man's WORDS, hear his ACTIONS as they tell you his intention.

True gentlemen DO NOT make that request of women dear. It's disrespectful to expect a woman to provide something like that and it signals a lack of respect when a man does that - and it validates his lack of respect when a woman accommodates him in those requests :-(

"I'm really missing this guy he didn't disappearing around a sexting time."

Doesn't matter when the disappearance took place - disappearing is disrespectful and he was already signaling a level of disrespect by making that request of you. So to see that manifest in his actions later is no surprise.

"if a man starts encouraging you down that pathway does it really mean that they are no good anyway and the outcome probably would have turned out the same"

Yep - behavior like that from a man signals his true intention - sexual gratification.

A man genuinely interested in a relationship would NEVER risk losing the woman by making a disrespectful request of her like that.

"Do you think that the man who encourages this sexting is only after sex period?"

Yep.

"I think it's my fault that I've ruined it by being a silly girl and had I not go along with it he might of pursued me as a proper girlfriend?"

Nope, not your fault at all - a player is a player - period. And nothing you do is ever going to change that. Had you not gone along with it, the likely scenario would've been a change of tune in him, he would've suddenly started to be very charming in other ways - attempting to fast track you into the sak. Then, after accommodating him, he'd have disappeared anyway - because he got what he was after - sex.

"he did mention photos but I said a definite no to that one and he said it was ok and not to worry."

Again, focus on his ACTIONS dear, not his WORDS.

He SAID it was okay - yet his later ACTIONS made the same request. . .signaling his true intention.

If he was truly okay with it, he would NOT have continued requesting it and pressuring you for it. True gentlemen don't behave like that dear.; August 2, 2013 at 12:33 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Lisa,
"I slept with my ex-husband on our first date and he stood by me for 11 years. Lesson learned here. Men are not equal."

No, men are not all equal dear, particularly many modern men (not ALL, but many).

You bring up a good point. The changes that have taken place in the last 15 years in the dating world - have been DRASTIC ladies. Not a few tweaks here and there. . .I'm talking MAJORLY different - and I blame it on technology.

All of the "instant gratification" that people receive and expect nowadays on a daily basis has ruined dating. Because people are now EXPECTING instant gratification and living in that state of mind 24/7 from technology feeding into that entitlement. . .it has made society at large take many things for granted (devalued many things) - including dating (men, women, sex, relationships, etc.)

Back in the day, if a guy got lucky on a first date, this was something kinda special. I don't mean special as in a reward, I mean special as in an "UNEXPECTED surprise" kind of way. And because it was unexpected, it carried a "pleasant surprise" (valuable) type kind of energy with it.

But nowadays, men are EXPECTING to get laid on the first date - and many are and have been for years. It is no longer an UNEXPECTED surprise (valued), but rather is has become an EXPECTED ENTITLEMENT (devalued).

It goes towards the Law of Scarcity - when something is in high supply, it's value decreases.

When something is in scarce (limited) supply, it's value soars.

As noted in the book, 30 Day Love Detox, we are currently living in a "high supply" sexual economy - which has actually DECREASED the value of sex.

Back in the day, when we lived in a lower supply sexual economy and sex was received - it had a HIGHER value, because it was a bit more scarce to have that happen.

Food for thought gals. . .we're living in different times now and what worked 15 years ago no longer works today.

SCARCE = VALUED

HIGH SUPPLY = DEVALUED; August 2, 2013 at 12:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror and everybody!

@KK
I must agree with Mirror - again! -on the activity dates, especially sports activity ones, although I have suggested such dates here. They are indeed not very romantic. On the other hand, I think they can be a first step to something more romantic. For example, I like cycling, which is a totally unromantic activity with a man. However, after a bike ride, some men proceed with an invitation for a coffee, etc. So an activity date can be just a first step towards something more serious. Also, some people are really not good at dating, they feel awkward, nervous, aren´t good talkers, etc. An activity date makes them feel more relaxed and perhaps for them it´s the only way of meeting new people. KK, if I were you, I would suggest an activity which you can combine with having a coffee or a meal afterwards. In my country a hiking trip to an old castle on a nice, sunny day is quite popular. There is certainly something interesting you can do together. Think carefully and choose something you will both enjoy doing. Good luck to you!

@ Lady Leo
I understand what you are going through. It will pass sooner or later like everything, so don´t worry.

I wish a nice weekend to everybody and keep smiling regardless anything!
HopefulWithMen; August 2, 2013 at 12:58 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @KK,
"how would you communicate to a man that you're not just a 'buddy'?"

You don't settle - for "buddy" treatment. You don't make demands, but you don't go along either (on dates that are "buddy" like in nature) - you simply kindly refuse those types of dates and make suggestions for what you'd like to do instead.

"It would also be our first 'meeting', so maybe to him he doesn't want to 'invest' so much"

Actually, the fact that that's the BEST he can do for a first date - makes it worse dear. Why shouldn't he invest? You're worth it, that's the mindset you keep here - YOU ARE WORTH IT. You are worth his time, you are worth his investment and you are worth it - period.

You don't act like a diva, you don't act like a snob and you don't act entitled - that's not what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that you EXPECT proper treatment.

If a man doesn't invest in you on his first date attempt - he's NEVER going to invest in you later on.

Why?

Because you SETTLED for his small investment. So why would he feel the need to amp that up later on? If he had success with that the first time around, then why would he feel it necessary to invest more later?

When dating, the "tone" of the relationship is being set from DAY ONE - DAY ONE. So the first three dates are IMPERATIVE for setting that tone - the tone of how YOU expect to be treated. Because whatever you settle for the first few times around. . .is the best you're going to get from that day forward.

And these "tones" are being set from day one without either one of you ever even intentionally doing it. For example, ever notice that if a man takes you on a date on a Friday night the first time - ever notice that that becomes your "pattern" from that day forward? The EXPECTATION of a Friday night date from then on?

Ever notice that the first time a man drops the ball calling you - say he says he'll call and doesn't - and you are okay with it. . .ever notice how the frequency of that increases over time - because you were okay with it once?

Ever notice how the first time a man bails on a call or date - he's very apologetic (generally he should be). . .but once you're okay with that, ever notice how it begins to happen, again and again - only with LESS apologies accompanying the behavior?

If you don't force a man to show you his BEST, his absolute BEST early on. . .you're never going to see it later from him - because you settled for less than his best once, he's going to assume it's okay to give you less from that day forward because you're okay with it.

Men who don't want to invest on a first date - should't be dating. They should be seeking hookups instead because those require much less investment.

Relationships require investment - anything worth having requires investment dear. And a man that's not willing to invest early on, isn't going to miraculously decide to do it later, after you've already settled for little investment up to that point.

Things don't necessarily get better later on down the line when dating - everyone is (or should be) showing you their BEST in the very early days. . .relationships have plenty of time to decline in routine and repetition after that point, LOL ;-)

But in the early days, EVERYONE should be giving their BEST.

Which is why I'm kind of signaling a "warning" with this one dear - he's not willing to invest, he prefers distraction, he prefers a detached setting for a date and he's already disappeared for almost a two week period. . .all red flags dear :-(; August 2, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

Thank you so much in your comments about the sexting and player.

It's made me feel so much better to get a grip of who he is and his intentions as I think I'd started to blame myself unnecessarily but a player is a player.

He did leave it after I said no to the photos but there's enough there like you said to classify him as a player.

Also, had I have met up with him as we'd already sexted he would have been expected it and me being scared to lose him might of given him that. Considering he's already disappeared you're right I would have had a major disappearance on my hands with total heartbreak and let for road kill.

So I'm going to look at it as the sexting that it happened for a reason and it was a gift really because it showed me the man he was and what he was capable of or lack of. So it's a blessing that I found out and saved my self from heartache.

However, I will not sext again and value my self worth, so a lesson still has to be learnt and thank you so much for being here you're really helping us women it is totally priceless and thank you.; August 2, 2013 at 1:01 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: I agree with HopefulWithMen's statement about activity dates. And I agree that if done, they should be done in a way that's pleasing to you and offers a "get to know you" period at some point.

But a pool hall or a bowling alley - no way, LOL.

Instead, consider something along the lines of Hopeful's walk suggestion while taking in the sights of some sort. Perhaps suggest a drink and/or lunch, then a walk around a museum or garden somewhere.

Or suggest that after that type of activity, you'd like to have a drink and a bite to eat.

Those sightseeing types of activities, while still being activities, offer periods of "quiet time" for "get to know you" levels of comfort to be built. In a museum, you can stop in front of a display and talk - on a walk taking in the sights, you can stop and sit on a bench and talk.

If you're going to include activities, steer clear of "bustling" types of activities where there's lots of noise and distraction taking place. Instead, shoot for the happy medium and do something that permits an activity to be combined with quiet, get to know you, periods as well.; August 2, 2013 at 1:14 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous August 2, 1:01PM,
"had I have met up with him as we'd already sexted he would have been expected it"

Absolutely, because you'd have signaled to him that it was okay and you were going to go along with it (that's the way anyone would perceive that).

"and me being scared to lose him might of given him that."

This is something I'd like to stress, because I don't think women realize just exactly HOW MUCH they let FEAR steer the wheel in their relationships - and exactly just how much that fear causes them to behave in ways that go against their gut.

NEVER, and I mean NEVER EVER, EVER. . .let FEAR lead the way ladies.

Fear will NEVER lead you to success. Fear is negative, success is positive. A negative path (fear) will not eventually lead you onto a positive one (success).

Imagine it like this. You're standing at a crossway - a T in the road. And to the left, there is a sign that says FEAR. To the right, there is a sign that says CONFIDENT - and each of these paths leads to a different destination.

The sign labeled "fear" leads to a destination of failure. The sign labeled "confident" leads to a destination of success.

If your goal is success, then why chose the path of fear? That path has a destination that's not going to lead you to where you want to be - it's actually taking you off your path and leading down the road to a completely different destination.

If your goal is success, then you chose the path that leads to that destination - confidence - and you don't stray from it or you'll end up confused and lost.

When you need to get to New Mexico - do you buy an airline ticket and board a plane to New York? Naturally, no. You take the path that's going to lead you to New Mexico, and you buy that ticket and you take that ride.

Following the path of fear will only ever lead you to failure.

Instead, take the path of CONFIDENCE that leads to your final destination - success :-); August 2, 2013 at 1:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Mirror im so happy that you touched on the subject of fear because i think that so many women are led down this fear path and it makes us act needy, desperate and downright foolish. I think men can also smell fear from a mile away and this in turn affects their treatment of us-they treat us as vulnerable creatures who they can play their little mind fuck games with and we will fall right into their trap because in their minds theyre Gods gift to women. Ive read a lot of relationship books and stuff on the net and this site by far has been the best one- i like that we ladies are able to interact with you and you take the time to reply i think its what keeps a lot of us from going completely psycho and losing our minds. IT really is all about confidence in this journey called life-confidence in relationships with men with friends with coworkers and most importantly confidence in yourself and knowing that you are someone of value who will not in a million years ever stand to be disrespected. Thank you so much for continuing to emphasize on the topics of self esteem, confidence and being in control of yourself and the treatment that you receive.
on the topic of letting go i think for a lot of us who have been disrespected used and abused time and time again its hard not to let that perpetrator go because unless your name is Jodi Arias you cant get revenge that's not considered illegal-so you hope that instead of feeling that hurt anger sadness bitterness and pain that he may just come around one day and be the man you wish he could be..i know that's so far fetched and will never happen but how can you just let someone who burned you so bad get off that easily and go off and be happy with another woman?the only thing that brings me some comfort is knowing that he wont be a good boyfriend to her either and she will eventually at some point get tired of it because these men (especially aries) generally dont ever change right? going into a new relationship i would never allow a man to use or disrespect me but what about the old one you cant let go of because your stuck dealing with all this hurt and pain and feeling like you cant be without him and hes off scotch free smiling in pictures happy with his new woman- thats not fair and thats not right!; August 2, 2013 at 8:27 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous August 2, 8:27PM,
These things have a way of working themselves out dear. And generally, that doesn't involve these men getting off scotch free - that good ole' bitch karma comes racing in to take care of that, LOL.

I touched on what I'm about to say the other day a bit, but you know those "happy couples" you refer to, the couple he creates when he moves on? Yea, take a snapshot of that moment in time. Because soon enough, what generally happens is - fissures appear, life settles in and his behavior never changes.

To give examples of what I mean, here are some of the things that have happened to my exes, within two years of a breakup:

1) One thought he got his new girlfriend pregnant, only to find out that the player had been played (and this was AFTER his family threw a baby shower for her) - and the baby was NOT his.

2) The next girlfriend? A severe alcoholic.

3) One found himself homeless, bunked up with a friend, slept with said friends ex wife in the friends house while he was traveling - and is now under her thumb. Why? He needed a home. He works only sporadically, she cosigned on his car and now he spends his days babysitting her daughter - completely under her thumb and without option.

4) One had two children with a stripper, never married her and watched the police bring her to his doorstep one night - only to find out, she was hanging out with a female escort, a working girl - and had a raging drug addiction she was hiding from him. Not only was she possibly a working girl behind his back, she was now the mother of his two children, addicted to drugs and unemployed - leaving HIM to pick up the pieces of both of their destroyed lives - which he has yet to do.

5) One used to love to play video games. He'd sit around all day doing that and being rather unproductive. After many a fight about it, I asked him to leave. Where is he now? He's married and living on a farm in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by cows - WITHOUT the INTERNET and access to online video games. . .for the last six years, LOL.

Don't worry about what's fair and what's not right now dear because karma has a way of taking care of these things and righting prior wrongs.

"what about the old one you cant let go of because your stuck dealing with all this hurt and pain and feeling like you cant be without him"

Cont. . .; August 3, 2013 at 10:28 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: When that happens, you're hanging onto the thoughts of "what might have been" and you're not focusing on the reality - which you should be because it will aid your mind in changing your overall opinion of him - and you cease missing something that isn't that great to begin with.

Don't let yourself get steeped in those thoughts and don't let yourself dwell there for more than 3 minutes at a time - when you're doing that, YOU TAKE CONTROL of your thoughts - and you get up and you get active. You actively remove yourself from those negative thought process and from reliving the pain and trauma again and again and again. Victims of trauma have a way of reliving their trauma dear. And once you understand that, you can begin to slowly take control of it and actively keep your mind out of that space.

But if you sit there and act helpless and permit yourself to wallow in those thoughts - you're are only going to create more of them in the future. You're not helpless, you CAN begin to take steps to help YOURSELF dear :-)

Don't let yourself live in victim mentality.

And don't dwell in the "what might have been" or the one or two great days you had together. Focus on the reality - what he did, how he treated you, the things he said, the way he made you feel - let THOSE thoughts run through your head for 3 minutes - then get up and get active.

And after a while, you begin to realize, this guy was NOT that great, he did NOT treat you well, you CAN do much better than him and you WILL do much better than him.

It's about taking control of your thoughts dear and actively switching their gears - leave the negative victim mentality and move towards the positive champion mentality.

Don't think about what ISN'T happening - focus on WHAT IS GOING to happen. Force yourself to stay in the positive and slowly break way from the negative trains of thought.

No one said it'd be easy. Change is never easy and neither is suffering and/or grief. So don't expect it to happen overnight. Instead, take baby steps towards the light dear - and before you know it, you can feel it shining on your face again :-); August 3, 2013 at 10:28 AM
Anonymous said...: thank you Mirror! your words touched me and inspire me to be better and do better instead of sitting around being bitter and feeling sorry for myself..change is definitely not easy especially when you don't know what lies ahead and its scary but i think whats even scarier for me is staying exactly where im at today and not making strides forward to improve myself and my life situation. He always did have a way to put me down just the other day he text me telling me that im good from far but far from good - ha! this is coming from someone with a huge fat belly.receding hair line.very bad bacne.gap teeth -my gfs were always repulsed by him and and his behaviour and couldnt figure out what i ever did see in him..and his new gf is a troll and im not just saying that out of jealousy and spite either but i guess hes fine with that because he could no longer afford his mortgage payments and said he'll go live with her rent free -shes a single mom with a little girl and if shes going to allow that and move that useless cheap selfish asshole in then shes just gonna have to pay the price for that and learn the hard way-and i think single moms who do this are setting a VERY bad example for their kids especially little girls..i truly hope and pray karma bites him in the ass and i hope its a hard bite that hurts him so bad because i didnt deserve that treatment from him -i helped him locate his dad who left before he was born and after 30 years he came face to face with him (his dad still denied knowing him)but nonetheless that meeting happened because of me..im tired of blaming myself and crying and feeling like shit over a piece of shit there must be something VERY wrong with me to allow someone like that to affect my emotional stability and self esteem..hes just so cold and heartless..that really is what is most bothersome to me and i could concur that most ladies feel that way..were filled with these loving, caring, nurturing emotions and they're soo cold and callous like they just dont give a flying fuck- that's why when you say balance out that equilibrium and level the playing field by mirroring their behavior it makes total sense..wish i knew this kind of stuff years ago...it would of saved me so much heartache and grief...thank u <3; August 3, 2013 at 11:31 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous August 3, 11:31AM,
"telling me that im good from far but far from good"

Pure ignorance and immaturity.

"he could no longer afford his mortgage payments and said he'll go live with her rent free"

See that, LOL?! Take note of that dear. That "ill intention" of his with regards to her. . .yea. . .karma is going to see to it that he gets exactly what he deserves with that. . .the beginning of what will soon become his very own living hell, LOL.

"hes just so cold and heartless"

Yes, but do you know where that comes from? Insecurity. He's completely insecure and to cover that up - he acts macho and tough. Macho, mean, ignorant men are some of the most insecure human beings on the planet dear.

Trust me, YOU are MUCH STRONGER than HE could ever wish to be. Mark my words there dear. He's taking the cowards easy way out with this new girl. You know why?

Because he's weak, that's why.

He doesn't have the kahunas or the emotional strength to take care of himself and man up and - be a real man. He's an insecure little boy that's basically running back to a pseudo "mama" figure. He's needy and dependent. . .ON A WOMAN.

So what's that tell you?

Karma is already shaping his future dear. If you recognize his new so-called "happy" relationship for what it truly is, the REALITY of what's taking place there. . .you will see that karma is already giving you the last laugh dear.

Mr. tough guy cannot take care of himself, is emotionally weak - and DEPENDENT on a WOMAN to PROVIDE for him. He is the one who NEEDS her.

Immature, needy, dependent, lacks ambition, can't man up, insecure. . .

Not exactly every woman's idea of what it means to truly be a MAN ;-)

See it for what it TRULY is dear - it's not all rainbows and butterflies for him right now like he'd prefer everyone believe.; August 3, 2013 at 1:08 PM
Madame X said...: I think they should teach this in school. Maybe there wouldn't be any teen pregnancies, or babies without daddy's at any age, or broken marraiges. Or kids killing each other over being jealous of who the other person is with. Teach the boys and girls about relationships. You know? LIFE 101; August 3, 2013 at 1:53 PM
Anonymous said...: i see why his baby mama got so sick of him and even tried to run him over!LOL he once mentioned how her new man wears nailpolish but i bet hes still more of a man than this insecure ass can and will ever be!and insecure yes your right, rude and immature -right again! ignorant -couldnt pick a better word to describe him(ill back this up by saying he even left one of his gfs in her late 30s that he used to live with because things were starting to get more serious and he told me she'd probably want a baby and he wouldnt want to have a kid with with her because she was older and the kid would probably be born retarded(yes those were his words) this was one of just MANY ignorant non-factual statements made by him which only goes to show his complete lack of education and understanding -he also took the liberty of sending me a picture of his dick yesterday via text saying that i must want it LOL all i could do was laugh-i was gonna text him back and say wheres your girlfriend but i didnt bother him because i know that having a girlfriend doesnt mean anything to him because he has no sense of what it means to be loyal and honest and have integrity as a man-to him a woman is just someone that's supposed to make HIS life easier and succumb do his every demand..omg telling you all this makes me realize what a lost poor soul he really is...just completely messed up -i used to feel bad for him and make excuses for him attributing his behavior to not knowing his dad or having a real father figure to teach him what it means to be a man and his mom who's kind of a nutcase and sent him to live with his grandparents because she couldnt care for him but then i realize there have been other men who have had it way worse off and still grow up to be real men. This one will never grow up too bad so sad -i think i can see it now for hat it truly is, has been and always will be.
Thanks Mirror <3; August 3, 2013 at 5:43 PM
karengp said...: hello ms. aphrodite... I realize all comments here are from last year, but I just found your page... Boy have I made mistakes... I have a particular question... I'm in love with a guy 13 years older... i'm 35. We met in may 2012 and I didnt like him back then, well I did but was still into my ex, so I didnt give him a chance... he was really into me, and I heard he kept thinking about me. so 5 months later out of the blue he starts texting me again, and I must admit I git excited, but talking he said he now was with someone... bummer, anyway we stayed friends, but I really started to like him and he started to pursue me again. Then we talked and he said I was the one... and he wanted me. I thought he was single or on his way and saw him a couple of times and yes, we had sex. Then it all got complicated, cause i realized he was still with her, he said he would end it, and I made all the possible mistakes, instead of baking off till he did, I would see him, then ask him to leave me alone, then he would freak out and said he couldnt loose me, a vicious cicle... I knoe he knew I wasnt able to leave him... He started going to a therapist cause he wanted to dump her but not hurt her so bad, probably they were serious and then I arrive... so the thhing is I kept trying to leave him so he would make a choice but I was too afraid.
He finally ended it with her, but of course said he needed time before dating me, cause people would talk about me being the cause of the breakup and stuff. My mistake? I kept seeing him anyways hoping to change things, and all that happened was we slept together, had a great time and he still didnt date me. So, 3 months passed and I am not sleeping with him, ut i realized I have lost his respect cause i've been needy, accomodating, fighting, trying to leave but i stay... so he knows i bluff... He said to me that he wants a serious relationship with me but he needs time, as a matter of respect... my psychologist asked me to apply the no contact rule, so he finally realizes he will loose me and i'm not gonna wait around for him... my question is should i go into no contact for 30 days? or behavioral mmirroring? he still talks to me, but of course less often, he knows hes got me... what should i do... i really love him and want him to stay with me...; August 3, 2013 at 8:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Dearest MOA,

I don't know if you remember me ; I have posted on here a few times I am the girl from Manchester... with Mr. T?

I just wanted to fill you in on my current dilemma - see if you can shed some light on it please. If you would be so kind as to offer me a little advice and guidance, I would be eternally grateful...

I have been dating Mr. T for ten months. We've had our 'blips' but generally things were going really well. I dont know if you remember but I have an abusive ex - I got an injunction order out on him not long after I started dating Mr. T because he flipped out when he found out about us/threatened to kill me etc etc...
Mr. T wanted to go on holiday with me in mid-August. So (as agreed in the court order) I asked my ex (father of my child) if he wanted my daughter for that week, because he had said he wanted her for a full week over the holidays. He was fine with it - until he found out I wanted to go away with Mr.T

What has followed next has been a barrage of mental abuse - things have got so bad I am going back to a solictor's on Monday through a domestic abuse centre....; August 4, 2013 at 12:40 AM
Anonymous said...: I phoned Mr.T on wed in tears (kept most of it all from him from teh few days before as he had exams with work and didn t want to trouble him) ...
He seemed a bit cold and detatched... but was still trying to come up with sollutions (ie. we take my daughter with us on holiday etc). I calmed down a bit but then we got cut off as there is a bad reception in his area. I text and said I really needed talk to him - and we'd have to plan it soon as running out of time . He text me and said 'we'll figure something out'
Then he text 'btw I am taking someone suit shopping on Fri and for food so I wont be at yours til sat, if thats ok?'
I only see him weekends and have been through teh mill so I was a bit upset by this but was fine - my life doesnt revolve around him - but it struck me as being insensitive considering I had just been on teh phone in floods of tears. I text him saying 'do as you please, but as its your lad's night on Thurs (we dont have contact on thursdays) you are unavailable fri and I wont see u til sat that s our holiday gone out teh window as I wont have time to orgabnise it on short notice. I could have doen with a bit more supprt tonight babe - anyway goodnight xxx'

He put something cold like 'good good, so long as its all my fault'

I said all I could have done with was was a bit more support and he didnt get back. Thurs I was meant to meet him for lunch in town - when I asked if he was still meeting me he said no, nothing he ever does is good enough for me anyway.

I saud thanks for kicking me when down - and please dont shut me out like this. I ve been through the mill and

He ignored me and then when I got mad he said he was at work/couldnt get back. So I left it - he had ample time to text and see if I was ok but did not. when it got to half eight at night I got angry and said 'I am sorry but your behaviour is unacceptable. You know I have been emotionally abused, I told you I needed a bit more suppport - its arare I ask for it but I am not made of steel. You have reponded by esentially telling me to f - off (pardon my language) when I ask if we meet for lunch and then blanking me when I have specifically asked you not to... '; August 4, 2013 at 12:53 AM
Anonymous said...: I am sorry but this is your disappearing act all over again when I need you most. I deserve better'

I essentially finished things - perhaps rashly - but he has been so cold and distant... I asid he should find someone with no 'baggage' as he once referred to it and thats been that

on Fri I sent a last text saying I cant beleive how cold he has been when he knows I have been terrorised by my ex/didn tknow which way to turn. I just got a defensive retort.

I called yesterday and left a vm, saying I didnt want to end things but felt I had no choice due to his lack of support. I said teh not communicating was not healthy - could he ring so we could at least talk about it and organise to get his stuff if need be. he blanked me and I am certain will now continue to do so... if you recall we have been here once before.

I know its stupid as I was making a stance and then seemingly back-tracked - I can hear you saying I sould not have rung him It just feels so much has been left unsaid. He obviously shys away from emotion /doesn t want the drama in his life and i guess I will just have to accept that...

I have no option but to proceed and put on a brave face... I ve kept busy wth friends and my little girl . I just feel absolutely heart broken - we were goign on holiday in a weeks time!

I just wondered if you think he will come back (and if he does, if things could still work).

I know you will probably say he is well within his rights to be cutting me out - especially after I dumped him! But as i say I felt like he was pushing me away when I needed him most.

I am not a 'needy ' person.... the irony of it all is that this all came about because I was fighting to have a holiday with Mr.T! But I am not made of steel either and all I needed was a text or a call or a little bit of reassurance...; August 4, 2013 at 1:29 AM
Anonymous said...: I guess he has had enough. I am just shocked at how he has reacted. Only last fri on my Birthday he bought me a handmade chain symbolising his love for me and told me not to doubt it.

Yet actions speak louder than words...

I am hurting really badly at the moment. I know you will advise me to just crack on and I am doing /being as strong as I can

Have you any coping tactics please to get through this awful bit?

Please dont woryy - I will not make contact with him again

Oh Mirror of Aphrodite - do you think he will contact me? Do you think I have done teh right thing?

Last time this happened (except it was he who walked out on me when I had that hormonal/bunny boiler rant) I used the rubber band as advised and he made contact after seven days, pretending he wanted his stuff. we sat down and worked things out...

Deep down that was what I was hoping we could have done by now. Just talked and worked things out. But he hasnt given me teh opportunity.

Should I explain that in an email or just leave the guy to it?

If I have done the right thing it really doesnt feel like it right now. On top of having to stand p to my abusive ex , I am now heartbroken.

Any advice or guidance would be really appreciated MOA - I want Mr. T back, but I cant force someone to be emotionally supportive, or to love me

I guess bottom line is I am wondering if you think he ll be back - and if so if the relationship is salvagable - His blanking me when i have needed him most is a worrying trait, which is why I did what I did.

I guess I will know if he genuinely loves me if he makes contact - but if he does, do I ignore him /use the rubber band effect? Or is that just games?

It feels like he is trying to punish me now /has been playing games with me (I am taking 'someone' suit shopping made me wonder if it was a woman... then not meeting me for lunch, blanking me and now now refusing to give closure)...

all this so confusing because we were really happy /he s a great guy in all other aspects!

If you can shed any light on how I should proceed, I would really, really appreciate your help MOA.

I am so frustrated by being shut out I feel like turning up on his doorstep and having it out with him! Though that is mad 'bunny boiler' behaviour and I wont , its what I want to do

I guess you will probably tell me to let go... just feels liek so much has been left unsaid

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to read this - I think you are amazing/having an amazing gift and insights... and I will listen very carefully to any advice given. Your words of wisdom have really helped me in the past

xxx; August 4, 2013 at 1:29 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous w/Mr. T,
Well dear, I see a couple of dynamics at play here this time around. Bear with me while I break this apart so you can understand. Some of it may seem harsh, but it's with good intention that I say it, okay? :-)

First of all, there is your ex. While I understand that you need support for this situation, the reality is - it's YOUR problem, not his to fix. He can support you, but in the end, it's yours to fix. When you look to him to provide the solution regarding your ex, I imagine that places a huge "need" from you onto him - and the pressure is most likely immense because it's a "heavy" situation.

That's the first dynamic I see at play here - a need that amounts to pressure. And he's already signaled this to you by his use of the word "baggage" regarding it :-( Even when in a relationship, you still have to operate independently versus dependently when dealing with your partner. If you act dependent, it's translated as "need."

The next dynamic I see at play here is communication style - you're using WORDS instead of ACTION to communicate with him. Notice that when he "communicates" with you, he uses ACTION (like pulling back)? That's the language of men, action, not words. But when you "communicate" with him, you use words and emotions. (If you want a man to "hear" you dear, you use actions, not words and emotional displays - words and emotional displays do damage and only push men further away.)

Now, take the first dynamic of "need" and pressure and then add the second dynamic of words and emotional displays to that - and you get lots more pressure being built up.

The third dynamic is - once all of this pressure built up and was about to burst - instead of pulling back to be heard and to give yourself some space for clarity - you pushed forward, again with words, creating more pressure and acting out on your emotions in regretful ways. . .breaking up with him when you really didn't want to.

You did that to send a message. But what you don't understand is that had you simply pulled back (gone silent, unavailable), you'd have sent a message that would've been "heard" and that would've given you both space and time for clarity - and that would've done a lot less damage dear :-(

When you're in a state of heightened emotions - NEVER ACT on those dear. It always only ends up regrettable. Instead, pull back, go silent, give yourself space to balance again - and that, in and of itself - IS taking an action that WILL be heard by a man.

In otherwords, the way to do something in these situations dear. . .is to do NOTHING. Understand what I mean? Doing NOTHING - is doing something. But it's doing it in such a way that it gives both of you plenty of space for clarity WITHOUT damaging, hurtful words, emotional displays, regrettable actions, etc.

Cont. . .; August 4, 2013 at 7:32 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: When women are in a state of heightened, fluctuating emotions - they should take action by pulling back, not by pushing forward with words. It's written in this article dear, as is the advice on what to do when a man pulls back.

Because the number one mistake women make when dating is they PUSH forward (chase and make someone run FROM them), when they should instead PULL back (go silent and DRAW someone TOWARDS them). Here is the explanation from the article:

"Emotions are overwhelming to men and confuse the hell out of them. It’s a known fact. Emotions are like work to men, the trouble of wading and sifting through them, attempting to decipher and understand or relate to them, it's a ton of work. It's also a major turn off and it makes the relationship more akin to the job of a therapist as opposed to something fun and enjoyable."

He's overwhelmed dear. He's overwhelmed by the situation with your ex, he's overwhelmed by your emotions, he's overwhelmed by your verbal assault, he's overwhelmed by your mixed messages. . .he's overwhelmed dear. And he needs space and time. And chances are that he chose to go suit shopping with someone instead of coming to see you, because of that - because he needed space. Not because he wanted to be ignorant or non-supportive, but because there's a lot of "stuff" going on here that's really heavy that's sort of being dumped into his lap for him to deal with - and it's just overwhelming and probably feels like a ton of work and not fun at all.

When your ex becomes an issue dear - my suggestion is for you to handle that as best you can on your own and not burden him with it. Imagine if he had an ex wife that caused these types of problems regularly and posed a constant threat. . .and he looked to YOU to figure a way around it? After a while, wouldn't you say to yourself, "Why am I dealing with this? Why doesn't he just handle it? It's his ex afterall."

And the real question is. . .how the hell does your ex even know what your plans are in the first place? Where does this man get his information? If it's from your daughter, I'd suggest that you remain vague with her over such matters and simply act as if it's a weekend with her father - she doesn't even have to know you're going away. It should just be like another weekend with dad. And if you're telling your ex of your plans, refrain from doing so. It's none of his business. He's not entitled to know of your plans. All he needs to know if your cell phone number in the event that he needs to reach you about your daughter - that's it.

When you're frustrated with him dear, you should pull back. Don't push forward and attempt to "school" him about how he's treating you with a "talking to" that includes your words - because situations like this become the end result. Men retreat from that because you become more like their mother instead of their lover.

Instead, communicate with your ACTIONS and PULL BACK. When you do that, men "hear" what that means. And you become more like an independent woman to them. They begin to notice that something is wrong and your silence is heard loud and clear - and if they care - they'll become curious about what's wrong and move towards you to see what's the matter.

At this point dear, my suggestion is - DO NOTHING. Do not initiate anymore contact or you're only going to blow the lid off this pressure cooker he feels like he's in right now. Stay calm, begin to distract yourself with activities and other interests and your daughter and remain silent. Give him plenty of time and space here and don't attempt to control the situation by taking anymore action, initiating communications, etc. Just stop, do nothing and let things settle.

Once things have settled, I imagine he'll come around.; August 4, 2013 at 7:32 AM
Lady Leo said...: Hello everyone,

Thank you Hopefulwithmen, Gemini50 and MOA for your continued support. I wanted you to know I am grateful, even if the message is at times painful. It's only through truth and that pain that I grow. I am not going to leave this community here, I want to keep growing and giving back with my experience. I am in a lot of pain now and I know "intellectually" that it is a tool to use to grow.

After a week of back and forth conversation and texting, full of mixed messages from both of us, he finally told me in an email he wants me in his life as a friend only, and that the BS communication we've had is unhealthy and he needs to know what I want from him. I got totally honest and said I still have feelings and cannot be a friend and that I was hurt his feelings aren't the same any longer. He replied he was sorry if I felt he had led me on and he thought "we were past this?". He doesn't seem to see his part in the mixed messages he was sending. I see mine, so I asked him not to contact me again. I didn't get emotional at all, and I didn't feel the need to educate him on his mixed messages. I just ended the contact.

My mind is fighting to stay in the past, trying to relive all the things he said, the actions of care he took, and also fighting the future saying how hard dating is, how all I have to look forward to is more rejection and no love. I KNOW this is my distorted pain working overtime. I know it, but my heart doesn't believe it. Yet. So, my goal for today...just this day, is to let go and have no contact. I am taking constructive action by removing my dating profile, re-reading the articles on this site (and others). I have removed all his photos, emails/texts, contact info etc. I am letting go of every tie that binds me. I am reaching out to friends, I am not isolating and this morning I finally cried.

I am trying not to kick myself and judge my past, but it's hard. I keep ruminating how I cant seem to hold a relationship together, why do I pick men who aren't ready for me, or me for them. I tend to blame myself.

I just wanted to update in hopes to move on and help others who are feeling similar. Thank you.; August 4, 2013 at 7:35 AM
Gemini 50 said...: @ Lady Leo,

You can get thru this girl... breath.
These are a few more pages in the chapter of your life -- and I don't think this chapter is finished yet.

I think this is just space right now, space for you to breath and get back to center. It isn't easy, but you (your soul, your spirit, your path and your impact to this world) are worth it (and needed). ;)

Aren't we just so good at kicking the shix out of ourselves when we are the weakest? UGH! It drives me nuts when I can see I am doing it to myself yet I don't know how to stop.

Keep on keeping yourself busy, just let the stuff with Taurus take a rest. He's not 'gone' dear. It sounds like he is putting boundaries up, that's all.

If you can't be friends with him right now, no worries, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, you do whatever you need to do to move thru this healthfully for you. Just give yourself time, and remember, tomorrow is another day. :)

Regarding, "I keep ruminating how I cant seem to hold a relationship together..." first, it's not YOUR responsibility to "hold a relationship together," it takes two; and second, maybe it's because these guys haven't been the right men for you.

I've been thinking a lot (yeah, I'm always f'n thinking dammit!) about my last post about Virgo and how I finally wrote about his negative shix after I mentioned him to Mltn and identified him as an axxhole. Once I got axxhole out, it was like a spotlight was on his negative crap. In the past I had seen them, but I didn't judge him for it. With this space and time, what I explained of him in last post, I could see as identical behaviors of his treatment of me. It's all part of HIS package -- and it's ugly and certainly not something I want to be part of, or could have lived with.

And I've been trying to do the same now with Scorpio. Instead of feeling all the good, I'm trying to identify the reality which includes some negatives. I'm trying to be real in order to let go and move on.

I think if you give yourself time, Taurus' halo (figuratively speaking) will dim a bit for you. And I think when he sees you accepting his decision (respect for him) and taking steps to take care of yourself (respect for you), his respect will grow for you.

Oh boy, and THEN you are going to have to deal with the 'reappearance', but that'll be many chapters later, and who knows if you'll even want him anymore because you will have healed from this and elevated yourself from it. :)

I've been thinking a lot about my 2nd last post to you as well, and I am so sorry if I was too harsh with you.

I explained I was worried and angry, and the truth is I wanted to, 'shake you up, to wake you up.' I'd prefer for you to be pissed at me for a moment or for however long, if it created a diversion from the fork I saw you took (if that makes sense.)

Just keep filling yourself up with positive reads and people and give yourself one job Lady Leo: take care of yourself, one breath at a time.

LOVE!; August 4, 2013 at 9:00 AM
Mltn said...: Ladies,

I wanted to share something that I really only discuss anonymously, because I think it may help some who are struggling. It's about why my marriage ended.

This is one of those things that's hard to talk about and that people don't get. At some point, after more than a decade of being together, the sex stopped. It did taper off, going from "rabbits" level in the beginning to officially a "sexless" marriage and then even further, to where it would be a year or more between encounters.

This was agonizing for me. I felt hurt, ugly, rejected all the time. I started having panic attacks, I felt like I was dying, I could not face the prospect of being celibate for the rest of my life.

I had no one to talk to about it. I discovered that most of my women friends were all too willing to blame me - I needed to lose weight, do my hair, spend more on clothes. I'm successful in a male-dominated work field, maybe this was because I was "emasculating." A lot of people were smug that my seeming success didn't really mean anything. There must be something seriously wrong with me, ALL men want sex all the time, right?

And even therapists that I saw wanted to play "CSI." It was all trying to diagnose what might be going on with him, and not helping me deal with the pain this was causing me and the process I was going through trying to decide if this was a "valid" reason to get divorced.

So, what was going on with him? I still have absolutely no idea. Was he having an affair? Realized that he was gay? Medical problems? Depression? Was he just disgusted by me?

We talked, fought, I bought lingerie, I backed off to give him space, I tried to initiate, everything you could think of for YEARS. He deflected. He avoided me and the subject. He wouldn't go to a doctor. He quit therapy.

What I could not get was, sex is pleasurable, especially for a man. There's drugs to help with ED. I was willing to do anything, focus just on him, whatever to try to get intimacy back on track. Why didn't he want to fix this?; August 4, 2013 at 11:39 AM
Mltn said...: continued

The thing is, the answer to all of this was locked up in his mind, his body. He's the only one who really knows.

You'll NEVER really know or understand the why, from any man. Most of your dating issues are nothing like this, but this is like the most extreme evidence of this essential truth - you'll never know why.

Other people are cyphers, mysteries to us. We'll never get into their heads. Mirror is right, you have to ignore 99% of what people say, because most of the time their behavior doesn't back up their words. People will say what they think is societally expected, what will avoid confrontation or hurt feelings, what will preserve the status quo.

We just have to act based upon whether our needs are being met, whether this interaction is positive or negative. If this relationship is making you unhappy, it really doesn't matter why this guy is behaving as he is. Maybe he's a jerk, maybe he can't help it. Doesn't matter.

My ex is a good man and a great father. I wish him the best in life. I'm not angry with him, I've let go of the hurt. Maybe he "did me wrong" somehow, maybe he was just doing the best he could. I'll never really understand, and I don't need to. I just had to move on and take care of myself.

And as far as letting go, there's the "Tinkerbell theory" of relationships - it lives because you believe in it. When you're in it, you think this is the only man you'll ever love, that the end is the end of the world. But with time and space, you see he's just a man, and he may hold a place in your heart, but he's not the center of your existence.

But it's up and down. I'll go from strength and pride in myself for enforcing my standards, to crying with a friend about it. It surprises me how I'll be caught off guard by emotions. But in the end, even being alone is better than being in a relationship that is making you crazy, that is causing you pain.; August 4, 2013 at 11:39 AM
Anonymous said...: @Lady Leo

I´ve read your latest post and I didn´t want to write anything first. Your story has stuck in my mind for the whole of the evening though and finally, I realised what I have to tell you.

I think that this Taurus man may be nice, but like nobody, he certainly isn´t perfect. So don´t blame yourself for anything you did or said. Because if he was more "perfect", he would have understood you much better than he did, in my opinion. And since he is just a normal man with his own weaknesses, my view is, perhaps he pulled away also because you had expressed your true feelings for him several times. I think a more "perfect" man would have taken it more "intelligently", but this man got frightened. That is just my intuitive opinion, I admit I may be wrong.

Like Gemini 50, I also think he will be back after some time. Don´t feel guilty because you didn´t have any conscious bad intent with him, you were just an authentic you. You remind me of Scarlett from the novel Blown with the Wind and such a woman needs her Rhett, doesn´t she?
Best regards to everybody,
HopefulWithMen; August 4, 2013 at 3:01 PM
Lady Leo said...: @Gemini50:

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your loving message today :) It has given me much comfort. I am grateful for your insight and gentle love.

I put on my big girl panties and reached out to my fellows early this morning. I went to see my sponsor and his gf perform at a spirutal center (sorta church without the religious dogma) and heard an uplifting message from the lecturer. They performed "Let it be" as the closing song and I cried openly and peacefully during it. It was a release of all the pain and fear I am feeling. I then met an AA friend for lunch and had a long, encouraging talk. As I detach from the drama and confusion I can see things with greater clarity. First and foremost, it is my fear that I am unlovable that dominates me. So when I feel what I think is rejection, I am returned to the 5 year old child who shivers in a corner and feels like it's all my fault. And I am incapable of being loved. All inner child/family of origin stuff. When I put this into the true light of perspective I see that my child is asking another immature child (taurus) to "love me" when he is incapable of even loving himself at this time. This helped me to see why he has acted out with arrogance and anger towards me. He is not getting from me what HE wants. The 100% security of commitment (his original desire). Now that his sponsor is telling him not to get emotionally involved early in recovery, he wants me to be his friend and stay near him. Since I won't, he lashed out with sarcasm and snotty comments. I see it now. Not that it makes any of this easier. The big book of AA calls it "Self-centered fear". When we don't get what we want or lose what he have. So people, myself included, act out in destructive ways to self and others. I see it so clearly now.

I am lucky, so lucky, to have the wisdom of other AA's/Al-Anon's to share this with me. When I am "in it" I can't see or remember any of the wisdom I've learned over the years.

Another awareness I had today came from a non-12 step friend. I explained the distance Ive been feeling from my only child, a son 21 yrs old. He is a good person but of late has been cold towards me. Friend said "Have you thought that HE might be going through a difficult time about something?". I was humbled by that because NO!! I had not given one iota of thought to him or his needs. I've so so consumed by ME and my stuff. Wondering why my son wasn't asking how I was doing (since he knows the break up is hurting me). So the coorelation hit me. Taurus is all consumed in HIMSELF, and hasnt thought of how his choices and behavior has hurt me....and then I in turn do the same self-centered behavior towards my son. Powerful dynamic.; August 4, 2013 at 6:10 PM
virgochick said...: Hi ladies long time no see :)

Well, I haven't been around for a bit, got myself sorted, finally got rid of that douche pisces who kept coming back, but be pleased I did it in a nice way even though I copped some abuse back.. and for once I didn't need the last word :P

Anyway, long story I've met someone else and he is amazing. I have never been treated so well in all my dating life and got to say I did more things with him in a couple of weekends than any guy cared to share with me over years.

All is good... spent just a great weekend together and BAM... distance already. WHY DO THEY DO THIS? I honestly thought he would not do this. Is this just something we always have to expect these days? How should we deal with it this early on? I've learned a lot on here.. and tbh he doesnt give me that impression at all like he is a player or at all insecure. First date he got me roses, had spoilt me going to dinner and movies etc.. doesnt talk about sex at all, go for walks, sightseeing etc..

I sent him a message a day ago, and I haven't tried anything since, and guess I am not going to..the ball in his court. Just when our connection got so strong it's like take a step back and it's sooooooooo unfair! it makes women feel like crap basically like we did something wrong, then start doubting yourself. ARGH WHY

I've dealt with this distance enough to know this is what he is doing now. I just get angry that every time it seems you got to play some game to prove yourself or something I don't know.; August 5, 2013 at 7:10 AM

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