"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Dating: What Does It Mean When He . . .

Whoever said that dating was fun obviously isn’t dating in today’s modern age. Let’s face it, men and women are both behaving badly, treating each other poorly and manipulating one another’s emotions. Have a look at the hundreds of comments left on “Experiences With A Taurus Male” and you’ll see how prevalent this behavior has become. Granted, those are women sharing their experiences, however to be fair, men are experiencing a lot of this as well.

Do you find yourself, much like Alice In Wonderland, attempting to peer into (or jump through) the looking glass, desperate for answers, while the man in your life seems to care less?

I get a lot of questions posed to me from the post referenced above. And most of them are women attempting to decipher a man’s peculiar behavior. But what most women don’t realize is that this behavior generally isn’t peculiar at all – it’s more or less reality – fact. And once you come to understand what this behavior means and why it’s happening, you can see the player, the mama’s boy, the opportunist, the liar and the cheat coming at you from 100 miles away.

When men behave peculiar towards women, women have a tendency to blame themselves. “What did I do?” “Should I not have said this?” “If only I didn’t . . .” And I’m here to tell you to stop all of this at once. A man’s peculiar behavior generally has very little to do with you and more to do with him.

Here’s the question to keep in mind as you read the items below:

“What does it mean when he . . .”

Asks For A Commitment Too Soon



This generally means he’ll vanish as quickly as he appeared. This is not Prince Charming gals, this is a man waving a giant red flag in your face. Chances are he’s insecure, needy and suffers low self-esteem. He’s learned, through a series of painful mishaps, that it’s much easier to pretend to want the real deal than it is to do the work necessary to create a real relationship.

This guy is insincere and he’s not genuine. How could he be? How can anyone be with someone they really haven’t had to the time to fully get to know? He wants to hurry this process along so he can get in and get out just as quickly.

BEWARE: He'll compliment you, he'll act as if he's really interested, he'll communicate regularly and with gusto in the early stages and he'll come on very strong at first, speeding things right along.

So fast that you'll never see it coming. It’s the ole “sweep her off her feet” method . . . that generally ends with him dumping you on your ass. This guy is emotionally immature and lacks the social skills necessary to interact in a genuine manner – so he fakes it. Be very leary of the man who is all too ready to commit.

Takes My Number, Gives Me His, And Doesn't Call


I see this one alot because too many women are the pursuer these days and it has led to a whole new generation of lazy men when it comes to dating. Stop being your own worst enemies, ladies!

You want a man to woo you and treat you like a lady, yet, many of you chase him like a man (exhibit masculine energy), which keeps him from lifting a finger for you - stop this! Make a man rise up to the challenge, never call a man first, ever.

If you give a guy your number and he can't man up and ring your phone - move on, it's a big red flag. He's either not into you (but if you call him, he'll still sleep with you before moving on) or this one has a sense of entitlement and he's waiting for you to do all the work; he's seeking a needy woman (to walk all over). He's wanting you to be the pursuer. Don't pursue or you'll end up his doormat. At the very least, a man should always make the first phone call and ask for/plan the first few dates and if he really likes you, he'll be excited to do so. It's ok to make the first move initially by showing him interest in a subtle way (a smile, a wink, starting conversation with him) but never be the one to make the first real move towards him. He'll instantly label you as desperate and he'll never ring your phone, rather, he'll sit back and wait for you to come to him - always.

How you go about the first few conversations and the first few dates determines ALL future interaction and sets the tone for the relationship from that point forward. If you start out as the pursuer, he'll take the role of the pursued - and he'll never put an ounce into you or the relationship.

Calls Me Babe, Honey or Dear Right Away


This is someone who is easily able to be insincere. If you’ve just met and you’re already his “babe” then this one’s a charmer - player. He knows how to manipulate a woman via her emotions and he will generally do so across the board (i.e. with waitresses, with you, with female friends, with your friends – any woman standing within 5 feet of him.) Some men don’t mean to use this as a tactic of sorts as they generally just refer to women in this manner all the time. The thing you need to focus on here is that these terms of endearment are only really genuinely felt by him when the relationship itself becomes genuine. So if you’ve been dating a week or two and you’re already his babe – you should take that with a grain of salt. Don’t believe you’re actually his babe because if you notice, so are all of the other women he’s in contact with. He’s a schmoozer and seven out of ten times, he’s a loser as well. Don’t read anything more into it.

Ignores My Calls and Texts For Hours or Days


This one is a bit trickier but there are ways to break this behavior down into its true meaning. If he does this on rare occasions and then apologizes or acknowledges his lapse upon his return, he’s probably a good guy who was just busy, cut him a break. If he does this repeatedly and is unapologetic about it upon his return, chances are he’s hiding something. It doesn’t have to be another woman, it can be drug use, alcoholism, a boys nights out and the like. The difference here is the apology. Men know when they are behaving ignorantly and a man that really likes you will feel bad about it and apologize. A man who doesn’t have genuine feelings for you will feel he doesn’t have to answer to you. If a guy does this repeatedly and also apologizes for it repeatedly, yet does it again and again, chances are he’s a flake who will drive you mad. The only time you should be tolerating a man ignoring calls and texts is in the first example listed here. If the other two seem more akin to your situation, you’re better off disappearing off his radar for good. And if you do that, do it without an explanation or a quarrel – just disappear. Never treat someone like you’re priority while they’re treating you like their option.

Doesn’t Explain Why He’s Ignored Me


This guys is a shady individual at best and when someone acts shady, there’s one of two things generally happening. 1.) He’s hiding something 2.) He doesn’t feel he has to answer to you. Neither of which are signs of a genuine budding relationship. A true gentleman has nothing to hide and should have no problem communicating or openly sharing what he’s been doing the last week or so with you. Now if you’re tearing into him about where he’s been, you could be the reason he’s shutting down on you so don’t do that. But if you mention casually, just as you would with friends, “Hey, whatcha’ been up to?” and he bulks, gets fidgety, begins to look away, acts nervous or stammers with “Um, oh I. . . ahh. . .” – you have your answer. And don’t press for more here because you really don’t want to know the truth, trust me.

Says He Needs Space and/or Isn’t Looking For a Commitment


He’s not into this. It doesn’t mean all hope is lost, it simply means he’s not there yet. When a man pulls this once, you can overlook it and deal with it by – disappearing. This is where you employ the “no contact rule" of dating and you become scarce to him. If you push by texting, calling, etc. you’ll make his decision for him. If you exercise restraint and give him space and fall off the face of the earth, he’ll begin to question his decision and you’ll actually be prompting him to make a healthy one by providing plenty of space and room for him to breath. You’ll also be much more desirable in his eyes by appearing to be an independent, not co-dependent, woman.

Says He Wants to be With Me But Doesn’t Make Time For Me


He’s stringing you along. A man who genuinely likes you will not behave like this because he doesn’t want to lose you and because he actually WANTS to spend time with you. When a guy’s words do not align with his actions, it’s a big red flag that he’s bullshitting you. The best way to deal with this chap is to again, fall off the face of the earth. The next time he calls, he’ll go to voicemail and the next time he texts, he gets no response. Period.

Doesn’t Want To Spend His Weekends With Me


If this happens in the early stages, then that’s a bit normal. People like to move into committed situations slowly while maintaining some healthy independence. However, if it’s the third or fourth month you’ve been dating and this is still happening, then this is the guy who wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. This one always reeks of control issues to me. He wants you – but only when HE wants you. He’s going to control this thing from beginning to end and it’s his way or the highway. You don’t have time to sit around waiting for this fool to see the light. If he wants to hang out with his boys at a “sausage” party (a room full of men) rather than spend time with a hot girl he’s dating, then ladies, shove him off to the ole sausage party with a bag of buns instead. He’ll never be the man you want him to be and you’ll always be playing second fiddle to his selfishness, control and ego.

Was Dumped By Me and Wants Me Back



Many times, I’ve found that this one means he’s had time to think and he came to the conclusion that he may have been a real jerk. That’s not always the case, many circle round simply for sex and you’ll need to ferret that out by making him wait for that upon his return until he’s proved he’s genuinely sorry and has seen the error of his ways.

See, when you back off and give men time to think and you initiate “no contact” as a result of their bad behavior or ignorant treatment of you a funny thing happens – they come to the same conclusion that you did – that they were a real jackass.

Men are human and they have emotions and they know when they’re behaving badly. You can let this one back into your life, but you DO NOT pick up right where you left off with this guy.

With this one – you make him START ALL OVER from square one. A man that genuinely likes you will be grateful for your compassion of him and he will know that he has to start over and that’s exactly what he’ll do. You treat this one as if you’ve just met all over again. He takes you to dinners, he waits for a one to two month minimum for sex , he makes phone calls and sends texts all in a timely manner to communicate with you – anything short of that and you throw this one right back into the pond.

Dumped Me and Wants Me to Take Him Back


This one is the one you really need to watch out for. Unlike the situation above, he did the dumping. If he’s already had sex with you prior to the dump, then nine times out of ten, he’s suffering a dry spell and it’s your turn in the rotation of women he has. You do the same with this one as I suggested above in the scenario where you dumped him. You make him start from scratch. No exceptions with this one – from scratch, gals. If he bails on you a week or two into it, he was back for sex and you dodged a bullet here. If you take him back with open arms and shower him with attention, you will be initiating the disappearing, reappearing man syndrome.

Doesn’t Talk About What He’s Been Doing When We’re Not Together


If you’re not tearing into him about what he’s been doing and he’s acting distant none-the-less, then that’s a red flag. He doesn’t want to talk about what he’s been doing because he feels it’s none of your business and he knows you wouldn’t approve. A true gentleman wants to share his life with you. A shady player does not. Even if the shady player has simply been hanging out with his boys, he feels it’s none of your business. This is a sign to you that he’s emotionally unavailable – run.

Doesn’t Apologize For Being Rude or Ignorant


He doesn’t feel he has to answer to you and he’s not sorry because he doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong because he feels it’s none of your business anyway. Not a good sign, gals. He’s not worried about losing you – and you shouldn’t be worried about losing him either. It’s time to leave this one high and dry. He’s disrespecting you.

Acts Distant and Starts To Pull Back


This one may have something to do with you. Have you been pressuring him? Poking around about how he feels about you? Poking around about where you stand with him? When a guy pulls back and becomes distant sometimes it’s not because he’s cheating. Sometimes, it’s because he feels smothered. However, there are times when a relationship is just over. Either way, the best thing to do when encountered with this situation is to follow the advice listed here.

Speaks to His Ex Girlfriend(s)


This is a hard one that requires a bit of observation over time. Many times, when people have been involved with one another for a long period of time, it’s hard to just simply cut them out of your life. But then again, I believe that in these situations, one of them wants to be more than just friends. Here’s how I look at this, if they broke up years ago and they only touch base every so often to catch up, then it’s probably over and they’re simply remaining civil with one another. However, if the breakup was fresh (a year or less) and they’re confiding in one another, sharing problems with one another and in constant contact with one another, then they’re still in a relationship of sorts in my opinion. It’s one thing to remain civil and friendly towards and ex, it’s a whole other issue when they’re still connected in intimate ways and sharing intimate portions of their life with one another and leaning on each other still. And if that’s the case, you remove yourself from the equation. No one wants to be caught up in a painful love triangle and it’s hard to compete with an ex that there are still deep feelings for – so don’t bother doing it.

Only Call or Texts After 10 PM At Night


This is getting into booty call territory (especially after 11PM and onward) and chances are, you’re a woman in his rotation of several. There are times when a man’s work or job occupation may come into play here, in which case, that’s acceptable. But if he’s not giving you quality time and he could be, that should read to you that you aren’t a quality woman to him, you’re just another fish in the barrel. Don’t take those calls and don’t answer those texts. You get back to him the next day or a day or two later and you don’t offer an explanation as to why you weren’t available at that hour. You let him think about that one. And if you do this and he responds after 10PM again and doesn’t give you quality time during the peak hours of his day – then be gone booty master. You’ll never be important to him and he’s showing you that.

He Doesn’t Ask Questions: Where You’ve Been, What You’ve Been Doing and About You

This is somewhat obvious but one of the best ways to spot an insincere player. He doesn’t ask because, frankly, he doesn’t care. He doesn’t care what you’ve been up to, who you’ve been with or to know anything about you. A man who genuinely cares will show you. He WANTS to know what you’ve been up to, who you’ve been spending time with and he wants to know about where you grew up, how many brothers and sisters you have, etc. If he’s not asking, he simply doesn’t care – and neither should YOU.

A Little Inspiration


Ladies, dating is tough and it takes it's toll. I think this lil diddy is appropriate. Keep your chin up and don't worry about the fools in life:

"When you gonna realize, that you don't even have to try any longer. Do what you want to. . ."


And for any men reading this, guys, it works both ways. If you’re experiencing any of the above from the women in your life or the girl of your dreams, then you want to follow the same advice listed here for women. Tolerating disrespectful, ignorant abuse and treatment from someone is nothing anyone should be doing – man or woman.

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723 Comments:

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The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Idalee,
"He calls me a player and a flirter"

Does he state his reasons for this impression?

"I really thought that this guy loved me alot. Help?"

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested dear, is to see if HE seeks YOU out. Don't initiate contact with this man anymore and see if he does that. If he does consistently, then you have your answer. If he doesn't, then you have your answer.

The only way to know, is to pull back - and see if he comes to find you dear ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hey , I just wanted to thank you for all these awesome advices on your site , I enjoy reading your articles so so much !! I just wish I had found them earlier , hehe :)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror,

"I mean, he still has a "girlfriend" right?"

Actually, based on her social media updates I think she broke up with Libra guy, but they still hang out as friends. The crazy part is... I think she's the co-founder of his start-up. Not only did she not find out/care he was cheating, she's now trusting him as a business partner. Wow.

Thank you so much for this insight:
"I just think this guy is out of touch and not self-aware in that way and because of that, he probably doesn't even remember what happened nor is he even aware he's hurt you."

That really helped me stop the obsessive thoughts about when he was going to apologize for his hurtful disappearance.

Thanks for all you do,
Vivian

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, First of all i have to tell you i love your blog. I hope you give me advice on my situation. I met Taurus guy on line 3 months a go. He was the one who chasing me. We went on date 3 times. We had good time together and he was the one who was calling me all the time. He was recently broke up with a girlfriend of 2 years who was cheating on him. He mentioned alot about his ex. He also had trust issue. At the end of January he just stop call me so i waited for 6 days then i called him he didn't respond. i waited for another week he didnt call me so i called him again he didn't respond i text him so at that night he called me he seem upset but didn't say anything and he agreed to meet me on the weekend. I thought everything is fine again then after 2 days i text him he respond like he is busy at work will call me later he never called. At the end of the week i text him to let me know if he wanted to meet me or not i waited but no respond. So finally at the weekend I called him on private number he respond i didn't talk when i call him with my number he didn't respond again so text him and said that if he is not interested in me just be a man and tell me say my final goodbye with no response. I am Sagittarius girl by the way. He is back on dating site I am using same dating site Do i have to disappear from that site? I can see him online sometime on what's app. Do i have to delate his number? Is there any chance he will be back? what do you think of my situation?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 10, 6:50 AM,
"Do i have to disappear from that site?"

Nope - you have every right to be there dating, just like he does.

"Do i have to delate his number?"

You don't have to, but I would. Why hang onto the number of a man that's mistreating you?

"what do you think of my situation?"

I just think it didn't work out dear, it wasn't a match. And now you're free to move forward with your life and find someone who is.

But the next time you do that, don't be the aggressor (the one initiating contact). Men like challenges and competition, which is why they tend to like sports. Instead, be a challenge to them to draw them near to you and make the curious to get to know you.

When you rush towards someone, their natural tendency is to pull back. When you pull back, their natural tendency is to step forward ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
I have a ques. What if the guy I am dating has been appearing and disappearing and after coming to your website, I applied the NC rule and guess what he is appearing back into my life!! Well, although he has not made any calls compared to the last time, but now he is msging me consistently but there is always a break in between like 2 to 3 days of no msgs from me compare to few weeks of no msgs!! So now he msged me on Valentine's day," Hi baby and happy valentine's day"...I have not responded to his msg cos I am sick of it as I really want him to CALL me instead of all those text msgs . Do I have to reply him??

DADA

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@DADA,
You don't have to do anything you don't want to do and don't feel comfortable with. If you're sick of it, then I suggest not responding because that will only encourage more of it and signal that you're okay with it.

And if he continues to try texting, continue with not responding and see if that compels him to actually pick up the phone...

Anonymous said...

This is kind of a different question. Does all this apply if it is between a man and woman who are now friends? I was seeing a guy. That was awhile ago. We do e-mail each other and see each other occasionally - but he pulls a disappearing act every now and then. For instance, I sent him an e-mail asking if we could get together for lunch. I told him I wanted to talk to him about some issues in my life and hear how he was doing. I sent it 2 weeks ago. Within a couple days he sent a reply asking me to check some new restaurants in the area. I did and got back to him. Now...I haven't heard from him at all.

He has now married and that's fine with me. (My question is -- as a friend to a man - do I deserve the same respect that you have discussed on your column or is it too different a situation? Does all this apply to how "Friends treat each other?"

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 14, 7:30 PM,
"Does all this apply if it is between a man and woman who are now friends? I was seeing a guy. That was awhile ago. We do e-mail each other and see each other occasionally"

It definitely applies because you're not friends - you're actually "exes" of sorts meaning, you're not someone he's had a strictly platonic relationship with - you're someone he's had a romantic one with. . .and this is a married man. He's off limits dear. He's unavailable to you and married men should not be lunching with women they've been romantically involved with before, without their new wives present.

Out of respect for his marriage and his new wife, he's off limits unless he's including his new wife in on these outings. If that's not the case, you could be seen as a troublemaker here. Because whether or not you're involved at this time with him or not, that will cause trouble. I mean, put yourself in her shoes ya' know? Would YOU want YOUR new husband to be out lunching with a woman he used to date without you being there? I doubt it. And naturally, it would arouse insecurities and jealousies that would cause trouble in your marriage. It's okay for you two to be friends and civil towards one another, but as far as actually hanging out and spending time together, he's a married man and if you're truly his friend, then you'll attempt to also be a friend to his wife, by inviting her to be present as well.

"My question is -- as a friend to a man - do I deserve the same respect that you have discussed on your column or is it too different a situation?"

This goes beyond mere friendship - this is a married man. His respect and his loyalty will lie with his wife, as it should dear. You can't expect much of this man because - he's unavailable. He's off the market. He's no longer an option. And if you want to continue a friendship with him, you have to show some respect for his new wife and his marriage by including her in these outings. If that cannot be done, then these outings should not occur and I imagine the reason he's disappearing is because....he's married and has a wife and that's where his loyalties lie, ya' know?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 14, 7:30 PM,
""Does all this apply if it is between a man and woman who are now friends? I was seeing a guy. That was awhile ago. We do e-mail each other and see each other occasionally"

It definitely applies because you're not friends..."

Sorry, I got confused and thought this comment was posted on a different article. So:

CORRECTION: None of this will apply to you because you can't date this man. He's unavailable and he's married. And if he's behaving as if he's toying with the idea of dating you, you need to remove yourself from this situation ASAP. Not only is it wrong, but it will cause you and others much pain, and there's an old saying, "If a man will cheat WITH you, he will cheat ON you." It's a situation that you don't need to be involved in or inject yourself into, ya' know? So it's best to begin to separate yourself from him now and let him move forward with his new marriage and new wife, unless of course, as I've mentioned above - she's joining you on these outings as well and you're all forming a friendship.

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.
I met this guy on an online dating site, so we met up this past Sunday. Things went well, since he asked me out for a lunch date today. We met today for a lunch date in the same building he works. The lunch date went good. He wants to get together later today also. I have a question though, it seems no matter the man I date, they're always touchy feely; meaning, they'll put their hand on my knew (if we're sitting close by), want to hug me and kiss me on the cheek or massage my neck. Now I became a little weary of this touch feely thing, first he had to step away from the table, but when he returned, he began to massage my neck. Though it felt good, but I grab his hand and remove it. While he walked me to my car, he asked if I could drop him off to the front of the building, so I did. We pulled up and continued talking a little longer then he put his hand on my knee, so I put my hand ontop of his hand and then began to remove his hand from my body. He held onto my hande softly. Saying that I have some really soft hands. Now I am interperting from this that he is trying to see how easy or quickly I am to giving it up. What do you think? What do you think I should do the next time, if he tries it? My plan is to express to him how I felt the next time we talk. I let him know that I really don't know him and I feel uncomfortable when you put your hands or touch me like that. I appreciate if you don't do that. How does this sound? Am I setting my standards/boundaries? What is he trying to determine? Since he wants to see my later, should I not be available or let him know that its not a good time, lets try another day?

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.
I met this guy on an online dating site, so we met up this past Sunday. Things went well, since he asked me out for a lunch date today. We met today for a lunch date in the same building he works. The lunch date went good. He wants to get together later today also. I have a question though, it seems no matter the man I date, they're always touchy feely; meaning, they'll put their hand on my knew (if we're sitting close by), want to hug me and kiss me on the cheek or massage my neck. Now I became a little weary of this touch feely thing, first he had to step away from the table, but when he returned, he began to massage my neck. Though it felt good, but I grab his hand and remove it. While he walked me to my car, he asked if I could drop him off to the front of the building, so I did. We pulled up and continued talking a little longer then he put his hand on my knee, so I put my hand ontop of his hand and then began to remove his hand from my body. He held onto my hande softly. Saying that I have some really soft hands. Now I am interperting from this that he is trying to see how easy or quickly I am to giving it up. What do you think? What do you think I should do the next time, if he tries it? My plan is to express to him how I felt the next time we talk. I let him know that I really don't know him and I feel uncomfortable when you put your hands or touch me like that. I appreciate if you don't do that. How does this sound? Am I setting my standards/boundaries? What is he trying to determine? Since he wants to see my later, should I not be available or let him know that its not a good time, lets try another day?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 20, 3:05 PM,
"What do you think?"

I think he's most likely after sex and he's testing your boundaries...your body boundaries.

"What do you think I should do the next time, if he tries it?"

I'd tell him that you're not comfortable with strangers touching you, so he should refrain from doing so.

"What is he trying to determine?"

Your "body boundaries" most likely. And I think some men do this without even realizing it and it does make women very uncomfortable (unless they're touching a woman with no body boundaries).

"Since he wants to see my later, should I not be available or let him know that its not a good time, lets try another day?"

I wouldn't have accepted a last minute date like that. I would've stated that I had already made prior plans but I was available ____ (give him a date 3 days later and a time) if he'd like to get together for dinner. (Dinner or drinks, no "hookup on my sofa" dates.)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

What are the warning signs a guy is trying to hook-up with you? What should we look for if we would like to avoid just hooking-up with guys? Like Anonymous March 20 3:05 PM, I've also had guys I've just met put their hand on my knee/thigh, touch me and make me feel uncomfortable. (These are just guys I've met in real-life, not online.) One of them asked me out to dinner, but I turned him down because I thought I would only get more of the knee touching business if I actually went out on a date with him...

Kneed

Anonymous said...

One more question: what does it mean when a guy keeps saying "WE" this and "WE" that even though we haven't known each other that long? Another guy I just met brought up his ex-girlfriend right in the very first conversation we had: he said his ---- belonged to his ex-girlfriend, that's why he has them. I never asked, he just volunteered the information.

Thanks,

Kneed

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Kneed,
"What are the warning signs a guy is trying to hook-up with you?"

There are many things that give them away. Things like:

They will talk about sex - a LOT - and will always be trying to steer you in that direction.
They will invite you over for sofa dates at their/your place, instead of taking you out on real dates (like dinner).
They will call you at the last minute - to hang out on their sofa.
They won't invest much into you (won't spend money or time on dinner, conversation will be shallow, they'll be "busy" a lot, etc.)
They won't take you out on traditional dates (dinner, drinks, etc.) more than once. First date might be nice, but the second is on their sofa.
They will test your "body boundaries" by being touchy inappropriately
They will try to make you jealous by making innuendos about all the other women chasing them.
They will talk like frat boys about their sexual escapades (most can't help but think that's just as impressive to women as it is their childish friends).
They won't call and talk on the phone to get to know you. Instead, they'll mainly use text for last minute "hook up" arrangements.

Can you see a common theme above in all of those dear? There is one, and it is....laziness.

Players are lazy. They put very little effort into anything they do because instead, they want the "quick fix" that doesn't cost them a thing. That doesn't cost them time, energy, money, etc. They invest very little of those 3 things into anything and instead, kinda cheat by trying to zip things along and take the easy way out.

If a guy isn't treating you like he's serious about you....then chances are - he's not dear :-(

Anonymous said...

I know what to look for now - thank you! The other questions I had were 1.) what does it mean when a guy you just met mentions his ex-girlfriend in the very first conversation you have, and 2.) what does it mean when a guy uses the word "we" early on?

Thanks,

Kneed

Anonymous said...

@ mirror February 4, 2014 at 1:22 PM, February 4, 2014 at 5:05 PM

hi Mirror,

He still keeps in touch (a couple times a week), for work mostly. He still keeps it friendly but i noticed he stopped calling me babe and what not since I never had any response to it. However, about two Fridays ago he messaged to ask what I was doing after work, so I said I had plans later that night and why was he asking. He said he was thinking to go out for drinks after work, me and him and another coworker. The other coworker couldn't make it so I told him to let me know if he wants to do it another time so he said he'll let me know because he was in a meeting at the time. He never said anything so I didn't bother...anyway he did it again last Friday. He asked what I was doing but again I had plans so I asked if he was planning another after work lime so he said nothing in stone but he wanted to hang out with good company but this time it was him a friend of his. Anyway I told him I can't make it since I had to pick up my sister at the airport so he said ok cool, next time. So I guess my question is If he asks again should I go? See what happens? Should I bring up the fact about him having or had a girlfriend?

Please help!
Thanks :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 25,1:25 PM,
"So I guess my question is If he asks again should I go? See what happens?"

I don't see any point in wasting time, energy and effort meeting up with a man that's 1) already got a girlfriend and 2) is not being upfront with you about it. Why reward a liar for lying to you by agreeing to spend more time with him, ya' know?

"Should I bring up the fact about him having or had a girlfriend?"

Well again, if he's a liar and he's got a girlfriend that he's not being honest about and telling you about...what's the point? Confronting him about it will only grant him the opportunity to come up with some "poor me" story to continue to string you along. Additionally, he could use that information against you by slapping you with the "crazy stalker" label - because you're going to have to then tell him how you even found out about this girlfriend. It opens up a Pandora's Box of sorts that frankly, I wouldn't bother venturing into with a man that's showing his less than honorable character already anyways. . .because he'll spin that less than honorable character of his onto you, and he'll attempt to label you a "crazy stalker" to deflect the attention off of himself and his wrongdoings and onto you and what he will perceive as you're wrongdoing here. I just see no point in putting yourself in that situation dear :-(

Anonymous said...

March 25, 2014 at 5:07 PM

I know, maybe I just needed to hear it from someone else...:)
i really don't want to put myself in a situation where I'm just setting myself up....but he keeps asking and I keep saying I'm busy or I have plans already....he asked again today....

Anonymous said...

Hi M.O.A.,

Since I have been in business (9 yrs) I have never mixed business with pleasure. I helped this one particular new client last month and walked him through the things he needed to acquire. Meanwhile, in the middle of our phone conversation, we began to discuss alot of things. Finding out we have alot in common. I was telling him the situation I was in with a guy that I was "dropping off the face of the earth" from. He ask of my reason and I told him then our conversations became deeper and more evolved. Its been over a month and I've seen him a few times on business matter. He is not attractive (to me), but I really enjoy our conversations. We're both born in the month of July and he has some of the qualities I really like in a man. The other day, I made some food and offered to bring him some because I do not want him to know where I live. His financial status is not the best and what I am used to a man having, but he has assured me during our conversations that he knows how to treat the woman in his life. He sounds like to have a very good heart and especially by us sharing the same birth month (July), I kindof figured we value most of the same things. He's ready to be married. I just don't find him attractive. We talk everyday for hours. I found myself talking to him all day Saturday on the phone. I could not believe I spent approximately 10+ hours on the phone with him. Though there were a few interruptions but still we talked so much. He makes me laugh and feel good being about to talk to him. I have shared things with him that I have NEVER shared with any guy or not even my close friends and so did he. It feels like we've have started to grow a good warm relationship.

Can you date someone that you're not physically attracted? Is that possible? What are the odds of it being successful? Can the physical looks be overlooked because of the goodness of a persons heart and how they're treat you?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 8, 1:00 PM,
"Can you date someone that you're not physically attracted?"

Sure dear. "Attraction" isn't solely composed of physical attraction. And when it is, it's superficial. Deeper forms of attraction are emotional attraction, intellectual attraction, spiritual attraction, sexual attraction and romantic attraction - and all are components of "attraction."

Anonymous said...

Hi there. I had been dating a man for about two months and things seemed to be going well. We first met at a bar completely by chance and kissed. He was consistent, a gentleman, respectful, took me out, passionate, thoughtful, introduced me to his best friend, invited me to his friends' parties, had long conversations with me, initiated, and we made future plans together for dates. We would hold hands, cuddle, and he would kiss me while walking on the street. He wasn't a smooth talker, but he seemed manly and good. I had been over his apartment, but we never did anything beyond kissing/touching/cuddling, he never pressured me. He said he would wait for me for sex because he knows how important it is to me, he doesn't want to be selfish about that, and understands I don't know him well enough. He seemed sincere about that. I honestly can't complain about him and he seemed very interested in me. However, at the end of our last date, which was great, the topic of commitment came up for, I swear, 5 seconds, because he wanted me to sleep over. I am not sure about his history, I never asked, but I do think he's been hurt/lied to by women before by a couple of side-comments he made. For the next few days we talked like normal, saw our show together, but then I noticed a day afterwards he pulled back and wasn't responding as quickly. I wasn't sure if he was disappearing or not, I didn't even realize it because I knew he had a trip coming up, so a week after the last message I only sent a very short one sentence light-hearted email.

Since I had not heard from him, I let another week go by, until I sent him a one-word text. He replied a few minutes afterwards by text that he's sorry he's been MIA, but that we should be friends and he's not really looking for anything serious right now. I was very hurt and shocked, I wondered if I had done anything wrong, I wondered if there were any red flags I missed, I wondered if he was ever actually serious about me, etc. I replied a bit light-heartedly and asked if he wanted to meet to get the band things I had gotten him (while we were dating, it's a long story, but it was supposed to be a surprise), and he apologized again for being MIA, that he's been caught up with things, he thinks it was really nice of me to get him that, he has his trip the next week, but lets make sure to talk the next day. I said okay and since then I haven't spoken to him at all and it has been two weeks.

While I'm not dying over it anymore (I had a week of intense mourning), I miss him very much. I didn't see any red flags or have any negative gut feelings, while in my previous relationship I had those all over the place and I chose to ignore them! Things felt right with him, but now I have no idea what to think. He never mentioned he didn't want a serious relationship until that point. I'm uncertain, and I really do care for him. I think he made a jerk move for attempting to disappear, for ending things by text, but at the same time he treated me well the entire time before that so I'm conflicted. I'm trying to move on, my confidence hasn't lowered, I'm still successful in other areas of my life, but I do feel sad about this situation.

Anonymous said...

I have just found this article and I am sure deep down I know these things, but I've always told myself I don't want to play games and anyone who pushes my insecurity buttons too hard is not right for me. Yet somehow I always manage to get involved with these guys and can't let go. I finally let go of one of them recently, yet he still sticks around in a "friend" capacity. In January we saw a movie together and I missed my train home so had to stay at his place, he just assumed we were going to have sex which bothered me but I didn't say no. The next day I felt terrible and I told him that sex was off the table now as I could not control my feelings. He said that was fine and he would remember that. I didn't hear from him for months until I saw him at a bar one night and he was flirting with me. We hung out all night and then I started chatting to another guy and kissed him - the other guy got angry with me and said he was leaving. I was so confused and had been drinking a lot and we were texting back and forth, him telling me he wanted me and me giving in and going home with him. Stupid, I know. The next day it was the same thing all over again. I thought something had changed because of how jealous he'd behaved but of course he pulled away again and has been ignoring my texts, even the ones just asking about his health as he hasn't been well lately. So much for being "friends".

Anonymous said...

Then I met another guy online and admittedly I had to keep nudging him to keep the conversation going, but he said he was busy and I just wanted to meet him and figured that after we met his attitude would change. He said he liked me and was very attracted to me and finally asked me out. We met and had a great date, kissing, holding hands etc but he did become overly sexual and invited me back to his place but I declined. He texted me the next day and we texted all day. He sounded sincere and said I was intelligent and witty. The next day he initiated texting again but after I replied I didn't hear back. The next day I asked if he was ok (probably a mistake) and he said he thought he'd replied. Another day of texting all day, he said I should come over for dinner some time but didn't mention a specific day and I said he should come to see me sometime soon. After an entire day of another conversation seemingly going nowhere I sent him a goodnight text and told him to let me know if he'd like to meet up again soon. He responded saying something flirtatious about remembering my perfume and it driving him crazy. I did not respond. That was Weds last week. Nothing from him on Thurs or Fri and then on Sat night I get a text from him asking how I am. I decide he can wait until Sunday and then I responded saying it was good to hear from him and asking how he was and replied very quickly saying, "Glad to hear from you...I think I may have a crush on you. All good here apart from not getting much sleep". I had no idea what to make of that text...attention seeking?? Then when I didn't immediately respond he sent another asking if the weather was sunny where I was and if I'd been to the countryside lately. I responded about an hour later asking him why he wasn't sleeping well and told him I didn't go exploring much in my area as I get lost easily. Then nothing. It's now more than 24 hours later and not a word. I just don't see the point. I have deleted his number so that I am not tempted to contact him as he has been making my anxiety go through the roof, but I just don't get it. If he's not that interested (which is how it seems) then why not just leave me alone? He doesn't seem interested in pursuing anything with me beyond a bit of text flirting and I'm assuming he didn't respond to me because I didn't take the bait when he mentioned having a crush on me and I ignored it. So I suppose the issue now is that you say to wait 3 days to respond when they disappear which is fair enough, I can do that, but what would really be the point? We've had one date and this guy doesn't seem invested at all in trying to get to know me...would it be better to ignore him completely and just let things fizzle out? I actually wasn't attracted to him at first but he had a way of building attraction and sexual tension and even though he definitely wasn't my usual type and went on about how gorgeous I am I still felt like I'd like to see him again.

Any advice would be much appreciated - Dee

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 5, 12:33 PM,
"Glad to hear from you...I think I may have a crush on you. All good here apart from not getting much sleep"

Given that he's done very little to follow through , yet tried to fast track you back to his place unsuccessfully and suddenly comes up with that line, I'd be very leary here that this man was attempting to emotionally manipulate me into thinking he's developing genuine feelings.

"If he's not that interested (which is how it seems) then why not just leave me alone?"

Because he may be attempting to coerce you into sleeping with him by doing so. Even if men don't want a relationship with you, they will still sleep with you.

"So I suppose the issue now is that you say to wait 3 days to respond when they disappear which is fair enough, I can do that, but what would really be the point?"

With a guy like this who's signaled he's a player already like this, there is not point.

"We've had one date and this guy doesn't seem invested at all in trying to get to know me...would it be better to ignore him completely and just let things fizzle out?"

That's what I'd do with a guy like this. These are the kind of men that weasel their way into your life with their repeated attempts and smooth talk - and end up leaving you feeling very used and hurt. Don't give him the opportunity to do that. He's already shown you a good bit about his character as a man, enough to make an informed decision to walk away from him, unimpressed.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your insight, very helpful! I guess he didn't seem at all like a player to me - he didn't seem good looking enough to be one and he's 40 years old but it might just be the fact he's looked at me and seen me as someone he wants to sleep with. It's a shame he doesn't feel it's worth developing a relationship with me considering the way we've talked and what a gentleman he seemed at first. I suppose I just don't understand how someone who wants to manipulate me into bed hasn't even tried very hard to give me attention and get me to his place which would obviously help his chances! I've made it clear to him that I'm sexually attracted to him but that I'm not ready to get physical right away. I figured he would make a ton of effort until he got me into bed and THEN he'd fade, so this is why it's confusing for me.

But I suppose there were other red flags, such as when I told him the kind of relationships I'm used to are ones where the guy tells me they love me after like 2 weeks (exaggeration) and he said, "Well who wouldn't?!" and then not committing to a meeting time until the morning of the date - I asked him about 5 times what time and if 8pm was ok and he just ignored it.

It makes me angry though, guys like this, because I know us women have to be careful and take responsibility for things that happen with men but at the same time we're up against guys who seem so genuine and sweet and seem to share your values and tell you they do only to be lying to manipulate you. How do you know who to trust?? I wish I had never wasted my time meeting this guy but lesson learned and I will not bother responding to him again if he contacts me. - Dee

Anonymous said...

Oh and also when we met when I was explaining my position on sex too soon he said, "Some of my best relationships began with sex on the first date"...as if that is supposed to convince me that sleeping with him on the first date would be a good idea. I had to shoo him onto his bus home and he left me to get my bus alone in a big city at midnight and then when I didn't text him to let him know I got home ok he claimed it was just the "protector" in him...what kind of a protector gets on a bus and leaves you to make your way home alone??? - Dee

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dee,
"he didn't seem at all like a player to me - he didn't seem good looking enough to be one and he's 40 years old"

LOL, I think maybe you might have a common sterotype perception of what a player looks like. You don't have to be young and good looking to be a player dear. As a matter of fact, as men get older and begin to lose their looks and their youth, they resort to playing games even more to better their chances with women. There are women here on this site experiencing players in their 50's and 60's. Age, looks, background...none of it matters. If someone wants to play you, they can do so at any age and they don't have to be good looking to pull it off...just smooth talking, charming, likeable and very convincing.

"I just don't understand how someone who wants to manipulate me into bed hasn't even tried very hard to give me attention and get me to his place which would obviously help his chances"

Online dear, these men get very lazy because, and I hate to say this but, because a lot of women there are behaving desperately and literally jumping into these guys laps. There's a show, Online Dating Rituals of the American Male: http://www.bravotv.com/online-dating-rituals-of-the-american-male.

Once you watch that show, you get an idea of what's going on online. One guy came right out and said, "All I have to do is say hello." Meaning, he just has to say hello and the woman takes it from there, he doesn't have to lift a finger. And once a man experiences that online once or twice, they get very lazy and if the woman doesn't jump right into their lap, they simply move along to someone new, circling around to the previous one on occasion, checking in from time to time to see if she's changed her mind yet, keeping his options open.

"I'm used to are ones where the guy tells me they love me after like 2 weeks"

Unless you want to scare men away...don't tell them that dear - or they're going to secretly think you're going to want a wedding right at the one month mark LOL ;-)

"then not committing to a meeting time until the morning of the date - I asked him about 5 times what time and if 8pm was ok and he just ignored it."

3 day date rule - if plans aren't made and times/dates aren't set in stone 3 days prior to the date, don't accept the date. If a man can't commit to a date with you and be respectful of your time by arranging it 3 days in advance, you're not available. And you're not available because you're in demand, and you have a life an other people (men) demand your time as well (even if they don't, you pretend they do). Never give the impression that you'll jump at a moment's notice or that you're sitting at home of a Friday night with no plans and nothing to do. If you do that, the guy will treat you as "desperate" and he'll always make plans with you at the last moment, thinking you have no life and you're sitting around waiting for him.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"How do you know who to trust?"

You don't. Trust is not given - it's earned.

And it takes a long time to earn someone's trust. As a woman, you need plenty of time to observe a man's behavior to see if he's genuine or not. You don't ask him, he can lie. You simply watch and you make sure the man follows through, is consistent in his behavior, is reliable, asks to see you regularly, calls you to speak with you frequently, shows an interest in you as a person, doesn't fast track sex, doesn't start smooth talking very early on, makes time for you, doesn't disappoint you, doesn't make you feel bad about yourself, compliments you, treats you special....and does what he says - his words line up with his actions.

Once you start to see those qualities lining up in a man, you can feel freer to begin to extend him some trust. Anything short of that from a man, and he doesn't deserve it - because he hasn't earned it.

Listen to your gut as a woman and it will guide you. For instance this:

"Some of my best relationships began with sex on the first date"

Ridiculous. If they were his best relationships, then why the hell aren't they still together. And what's his idea of a relationship - 3 weeks, a month, 3 months? Because to me, those are flings and brief affairs, not relationships. His words don't add up. And because it doesn't add up...ding, ding, diing...red flag, alarm bells, I smell BS, LOL.

And you're BS detector was sounding there too when you took notice of that and remembered it.

And this, my favorite:

"when I didn't text him to let him know I got home ok...he claimed it was just the "protector" in him...what kind of a protector gets on a bus and leaves you alone in a big city at midnight to make your way home?

Not my kind, that's for sure LOL. Hmm, protector - that abandons you in sketchy circumstances...yea, not adding up, doesn't make sense. And because it doesn't make sense, because his WORDS do NOT align with his ACTIONS...ding, ding, ding, red flags, alarms bells, I smell BS, LOL.

That's how you do it dear, that's how you hone your own skills of protection for yourself. You start wading through all the fluffy talk and man voodoo they throw out there and get down to brass tacks, setting emotions aside and using only logic - when a man's words don't align with his actions, he gives himself away.

It's really that simple and it doesn't take very long for them to start tripping up over themselves if they're a player :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks again, so much for taking the time out to respond to me. I do have a lot of learning to do - I thought I would be better at this at 30 years old but clearly not! I really used to think the older guys would be more trustworthy as they'd be looking to settle down. I think I am still very naive and do get sucked in by the smooth talking because I am a very intense person, but I know I need to be wary and keep my wits about me. That's exactly why I don't like sleeping with a guy too soon as it clouds my judgement and I make excuses for his bad behaviour because I want to believe the guy really likes me. But after him disappearing for 2 days the initial excitement died down and I was able to see more clearly and him telling me he has a crush on me just came across as insincere and juvenile and looking to bait me, and he obviously disappeared again because it didn't work...well you leave me hanging after one date and I lose interest! Sometimes I think these players really aren't very smart. I guess he was hoping I'd take the lead because as soon as I stopped he backed off. I was hoping he'd seen something worth pursuing in me and it hurts that he didn't. But I've taken the lead before and I've now learnt to stop because it never works out for me.

As far as the date went, he actually asked me on the Sat to meet on Thurs afternoon (which is why I thought he was genuinely interested) but I said week days weren't good for me and then he suggested the Sunday eve and I said ok because I really wanted to meet him. I figured the mere fact he had suggested an advance date meant it was ok to instead meet him earlier since his first suggestion didn't work for me.

I'm quite sensitive and I told him this and that probably made me more of a target to him...being so nice and sweet to him and I may have gotten sucked back in and become hopeful without your advice so I really do appreciate you taking the time! I have been getting stuck with this kind of guy for 7 years so it's really depressing and I just want to meet someone who sees me as more than just a sexual object. I don't know what I'm doing wrong! - Dee

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dee,
You're not doing anything wrong dear and you're not naive, you just have a pure heart. And these days, regretfully, that can get you hurt I'm sad to say, because it's a harsh world out there and society seems to be rewarding sociopathic behavior right and left, so people continue doing it.

A regular reader here on this site, Gemini50, just shared this on the online dating piece published here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/online-dating-pickup-lines_n_5207196.html

It's hilarious, and sadly, pretty much the reality...have a laugh dear ;-)

"I have been getting stuck with this kind of guy for 7 years"

You haven't been getting stuck dear, you've been settling - for less than you deserve. We've all been there. We've all questioned our value at some point or another:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/08/how-do-you-value-yourself.html

But the beauty of life dear, is that we all also have free will...we can freely will a new reality into being through positive thought and follow through actions. Meaning, once you start to think differently, you start to behave differently, without even realizing it, because your thoughts become your words, your words become your actions, your actions become your habits, your habits become your values and your values become your destiny.

It all starts with positive thoughts dear :-)

"I just want to meet someone who sees me as more than just a sexual object"

I completely understand that and you're not alone there dear. And one way to bring that into being is to make sure you don't present yourself as a sexual object. Many men will attempt to reduce you to one regardless of how you present yourself, but the key is to never settle and give in to that - never settle and give in for less than you deserve. Don't be afraid to say no and don't be afraid to walk away and don't be afraid to be alone.

Because here's the thing. When you let fear steer the wheel in your life, when you let your fears determine your actions, your fears will never lead you to success. And by that I mean, if you fear being alone, your fear will cause you to settle for the first thing that comes along, good or bad. If you fear saying no or standing up for yourself, your fear will again have you settling for the first thing that comes along, good or bad. Instead of YOU being in control and holding out for what's BEST for you, your fear will do the exact opposite if you let it be in control. It will land you with the first guy that comes alone, it will see you jumping through hoops to hang onto that less than worthy man, it will manifest anxiety and insecurities that will further cause self-destructive behavior such as tolerating abuse in some manner (verbal, physical, emotional) and that poor treatment will see you acting out on those feelings (obsessing, emotional, clinging) - and once that happens, that fear will cloud your judgment and convince you that this is the best you can do.

And NOTHING could be further from the truth dear :-)

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And again, please realize I'm generalizing there when I say "you" etc. I'm talking about female tendencies in general as a trend, because like I said, we've all been there dear and sometimes, we find ourselves behaving as I've outlined above, without even realizing it - because WE are not guiding our lives, instead, we're letting FEAR guide us...right into a ditch.

Read the other articles on this site dear, read the stories in the comments of them from other women. This piece here has over 4,400 comments and stories shared:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

As you can see, clearly, you're not alone. And these two pieces may also shed some light for you:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

I hope they bring you some peace of mind and I hope they empower you. You deserve the best dear, never sell yourself short, never settle for less than you deserve. Yes, you may end up alone for an extended period of time. However, you will not be victimized or acted upon by others, you will grow stronger and more independent by the day, you will properly protect yourself from the users and losers and in the end dear, you will feel empowered and much happier overall. And eventually, even if the right man doesn't come along immediately, you will begin dating a higher quality of men having sent away the users and the losers, and you will begin to enjoy dating more and you will feel more confident as a woman about doing so. And those benefits far outweigh any man in your life dear.

Happiness comes from within you. It doesn't come from outside of you, you won't receive it from another individual. And when you find it within you, when you are content with yourself and you realize you don't need anyone else, a funny thing happens. You begin to emanate happiness and positive feelings like the sun, it begins to radiate from within you and out into the world. And when it does, it begins to magnetically draw like minded individuals to you.

Because via the Law of Attraction, "like attracts like." So when you live in fear and negative emotions, that's what you attract and draw back to yourself. And when you live in confidence, independence and happiness, likewise, you begin to attract and draw that back to yourself. In the end dear, it ends up being a very simple equation.

Happy, independent and confident emission = happy, independent, confident attraction.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Change starts within yourself. You won't find the answers or your happiness in another human being, it lives within yourself, that's where you need to find it.

I hope that makes sense and I hope it helps you dear. Feel free to browse the other articles here, read the stories and share more of your own if you like. The women here are very supportive of one another, not catty or criticizing or demeaning as nothing less is accepted by me here. This is a "safe" environment for women to come together for assistance and support. So feel free to join us dear...we're all on the journey of life, navigating our various paths :-)

Anonymous said...

Bravo MOA! Please write a book soon or have a MOA conference somewhere! Thank you for responding to and helping all the women on here from your HEART!

KK said...

(If there was an article titled ‘What does it mean when she...?’ this would be relevant there)

Mirror and ladies,
I’m coming to you guys with a ‘situation’ I’ve recently had to experience. I’m still having a hard time with it.
For those that are following, everything else with the bf (Taurus) is fine, I understand every couple has their ups and downs, we’ve both learned (and still are learning) how to communicate better with eachother and how to properly deal with any issues that do come up but this is a tough one. It’s been a few rough weeks, with a number of things happening all at once and things happening in ‘sequence’, one after another. Emotionally, I was exhausted, very upset and just not sure anymore how to proceed, or to proceed at all. I won’t get into all of the things that happened because they have been resolved now, but the straw that broke the camel’s back was the issue of female friends (his). And a certain one I’m very leery of at the moment.

He had told me he had a few of those friends and some he’s known for a very long time, some are single, some are married with kids. They’ve become family to him (he only has his parents). One of the married ff’s had went for a walk with him and then the next day called him and asked for his help with something in her home. A few days later I found out, when we had went for ‘our’ walk at the very same place he was with her – I took that personally, I thought that was just our thing, private, intimate, romantic, etc. He didn’t realize how significant that was to me at the time. Then the fact that she called him over the very next day – she couldn’t get a neighbor’s help or wait for her husband to come home. He now understands where my thoughts went, along with everything else ‘mounting’ or building up, he gets it, but still swears they’re just friends, she’s like a sister. I am also fine with him having female friends, but it’s what you do with them that matters to me.
There is a very fine line in the sand and I feel like somebody is crossing or has crossed it.

A week later, (Friday) I’m sitting at a friends’ house and we’re having a girl’s day. We begin talking about so and so, the ‘men’... and the subject of our mutual friend – let’s call her 'A'. She’s in a relationship, fairly new like myself. She’s been through some things relationship wise and has just mended things with her boyfriend (he has trust issues). She also has a history of being in unhealthy relationships - Being wanted for sex instead of her personality, no real fundamentals of a relationship (honesty, respect, trust, communication, etc), ’attachment’ and pursuing men, also very short term ‘flings’ maybe and a number of personal issues. I have known her for about a year, but I am not close with her, I only see her every few months and we casually hang out. My friend tells me about A’s business and that she recently moved in with her boyfriend after only 2 months, he kicked out her shortly after she moved in because she was hiding her phone from him it seemed and another guy had called for her while she was in the shower and the boyfriend answered. She wasn’t checking in with the boyfriend as well, not being consistent like how maybe a girlfriend/partner should be. I really don’t care to know this about her, but I do and it also ties into my gut feeling about her now and my ‘suspicions’.

KK said...

It was briefly brought to my attention that ‘A’ knew my boyfriend and they were ‘friends’. I never knew this. She saw a picture of him and I together back in January and exclaimed to my friend “Omg, that’s ***! I know him” – Thanks for telling me...? 4 months later, through someone else, not her directly or my boyfriend. She knew the longest; of course it took time for Taurus to clue in. I do talk about her occasionally. He didn’t say anything because of the last incident and he didn’t want to cause anymore conflict. This is a bit different though... I know this person too.

My friend was caught in the middle for months. She also informed me that ‘A’ talks about my boyfriend a lot – almost obsessively and seems to pry. She had asked our friend when I would be coming by with him, so she could hang out with him, catch up with him... etc. All him. Not ‘us’ or ‘they’ or ‘them’. She also would ask how HE was doing. How would my friend know? Ask Taurus yourself (they text eachother). I have not brought him around to anybody except for my family. I was stunned and something in my gut told me ‘something’s not right here’.

I did ask how they met/know eachother and what ‘A’ told my friend or what she talked about regarding him, my friend said they met before I met him, 2 months prior maybe, from the same dating site. At that time, I do know he wasn’t interested in anything, just wanted to make friends (probably not the greatest way to do it). They had a coffee/drink date, just to meet for the first time. He says she was too eager, she also wasn’t his type, too desperate and he just knew right away they would only be friends. It happens. She invited him ‘in’ that night they met and then after him declining and saying no and somewhat rejecting her, she would not stop pursuing him; even after he told her he wasn’t attracted to her that way. She backed off apparently and they continued and tried to be ‘friendly’, but he says everytime after that when they did hang out, he felt that undercurrent of ‘feelings’, it became awkward for him.
He’s a nice guy and sometimes to a fault. I also feel bad, because I relate to her and I remember acting the same way at one time. Not fun.
He said that one night they went to a bar and she saw an ex of hers with another girl and she ‘freaked out’ and had a breakdown in his car, he kicked her out of his car. Another time she had texted him and said she would ‘do something’ and ‘end it all’, he jumped. Whether that was genuine or manipulation... either way I don’t agree with it. They have not seen eachother since December.

Taurus and I were supposed to have a sit down, face to face conversation about everything on Sunday – this issue would be added to the list of things to talk about. We did talk and that’s when I found out more or had things confirmed – both my friend and his stories add up. His reaction to her and what I told him was frustration, anger and at the same time shock/disbelief and then the same ‘sick’ feeling I have. He actually said “I thought she was better...”.

KK said...

She’s been ‘liking’ my statuses on Facebook about him, but knowing him behind my back and not coming forth with that information. Talking about him, like she misses him. But not so much in a friendly way.
They were also texting the Thursday night before I found everything out, they were going to go for coffee. ‘A’ was at my friends, texting my boyfriend to meet up and my friend chimed in and said “I don’t think that’s a good idea, you just patched things up with your bf and KK and Taurus are going through some stuff too”. She left it at that. Right after my friend plays the role of ‘A’’s conscience, she says “Yeah you’re probably right....” – It’s that question of ‘why people do what they do’. And why didn’t she think this wasn’t a good idea back in January? It seems fishy, to ‘hide’ a so called ‘friendship’ for that long when different people and mutual friends are intertwined.
My friend had ‘A’ over the following Saturday and told her that I KNEW. ‘A’ panicked and got very upset apparently, scared almost and was worried I would hate her. I think I’m not the only one who would react the way I did or be angry. She told our friend that she’d like to call me and talk... I refused. I was that mad. I would tear into her. Taurus also says that I would ‘break’ her. She’s that fragile. No one cared about how I would feel though. I felt and still do feel disrespected and almost stabbed in the back.
My theory is maybe she’s resentful and holding onto a grudge that he didn’t want ‘her’ and then shortly after, met me and things went very smoothly and we’re together. Hidden jealousy? Tough spot to be in.

My friend says she will talk to her at some point about all of this and their own friendship – it has impacted everyone. It’s not fair that she was caught in the middle and felt torn between two sides, but kept her loyalty to me, her friend of 15 years, rather than keeping a secret for a friend of only 2 years. I will probably hear about that conversation when it happens, but I’m also dreading it. Who knows what will come out. And in no way do I mean to bash this girl – it’s just I’m very ‘rattled’ by it. I’ve supported her through things before and have tried to advise her on the subjects/topics that Mirror has taught us. There is a different path or road she could travel on.

I’m keeping out of it until then, Taurus says I’m not the one who should have to deal with her or even worry about her, she is not my problem. And continued on to say that she just needs to learn on her own. She should apologize to me or us maybe but then let the guilt eat at her. I also don’t know if he’ll do anything, and if he did, what could he do?

Some trust is definitely gone on her end, I just thought I knew her, turns out I really don’t.

Needed to share. (Sorry for taking up so much space)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@KK,
Don't sweat this dear - remember - confidence is ATTRACTIVE.

If you come undone here emotionally, you may give the wrong impression to this guy. You need to stand strong and be the exact opposite of what your insecure friend is being. You say his reaction to her, he told you she was too eager and desperate and it turned him off....so don't let her antics reduce YOU into acting like that as well, ya' know?

He's with you, remember that. And he's not with you because he HAS to be, he's with you because he WANTS to be, he CHOOSES to be...and that's huge. He didn't choose her, he didn't want her. He chose you, he wants you. So remember that and stand strong and confident with that knowledge.

And regarding him and the married female friend, I wouldn't worry about that right now either. I have male friends and they come to my house and my camp for extended weekends and assist me...and they have wives and girlfriends. The wives and girlfriends know me and like me and don't feel threatened by me. These are childhood male friends I've known since I was 5 years old, and yes, they're like brothers to me. When folks insinuate something more is involved, I simply ask them, "Do you, or would you, develop sexual/romantic feelings for your brother or sister?" And when you put it to them like that, they suddenly "get it." Because when someone "feels" as if you're a brother or sister to them....it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE to develop romantic/sexual feelings for them, ya' know? It becomes a gross and freaky notion or idea. It's like, "Eww" LOL.

And if she's truly a friend to him, chances are he's a friend to her husband as well and overtime, both of them may become close friends of yours as well. That's how it is in my circle anyway (except for the one girlfriend who's just...well, "crazy" and everyone refuses to be around as a result of her drama LOL). And my friends wives are all welcome at my camp during those extended weekend stays. But as it turns out, they're not interested in spending time "roughing it' in the mountains and they're more than happy to send their husbands away for the weekend...for me to look after while they get a break from them LOL ;-)

My point is, stand strong dear, stay confident and remain emotionally "open" and happy and upbeat. Don't let these things bring you down to this woman's level...or else you're going to end up coming across to him just like her, ya' know?

Always keep things "fun" dear. Because when dating someone becomes like "work" for a man, they lose interest quick. He's with you - not her. Remain emotionally strong and confident here...and that's where he'll stay too, with you :-)

KK said...

Thank you as always for the response/advice. I guess I just needed to hear something positive - after swimming in negativity. You're right - he's with me and he chose to be, if anyone else doesn't like it, it can't be my or his problem. I'm just very sensitive to things like this, so it's yet another adjustment. Past experiences, the fact that I can't really relate - I myself don't have any male friends, more so acquaintances or the girlfriends' boyfriends/husbands, but we aren't close, they're kind of just 'there' LOL. We hang out as one group, not separately. Different dynamics or ways of doing things.

I think I've done okay up to this point, just lost a little bit of my confidence but I do feel it coming back. I also do trust him, deep down I don't 'feel' anything bad. He has proven himself to me in many ways. I also think meeting these friends would help, and at this point I haven't met them yet.

Regarding our 'insecure' friend - It is very awkward at this point, nobody really knows how to proceed. And upon writing here, I did receive a message from her, next best thing considering I did refuse a phone call at first. Been less than a week since this all happened.
She asked if she could speak to me, by phone or text, gave her number and also said she could meet in person.

Today I can't really do anything, I don't know which way to go. I appreciate she's trying and coming to me directly now, it would be good to hear her out and clear the air and move on. I wouldn't feel comfortable meeting her, but I would allow anything else. I'm trying to be open and forgiving... So if this conversation happens, I hope it can make things better and not aggravate them.

Anonymous said...

Hi @Dee,

I empathize with you and can relate to many of the things you've experienced. I recently dealt with a player myself, and like you, somehow I thought players were easily recognizable (i.e. they're good-looking, generally younger, all the women are falling for him, etc. etc.) but just like Mirror says, they come in all shapes, sizes and ages! Yeah, I didn't know that either so you aren't alone, lol! I consider myself a little naive too, but I'd like to think like Mirror suggests: we are women that just have a pure heart. And sure, we might get trampled over more often than those that are better at protecting themselves, but I don't think being suspicious and cynical all the time is healthy either. I believe any man that fails to recognize the good in us women, it's their loss, so we should just walk away from these no good men with our heads held up high and & thanking our lucky stars that we didn't allow them to use us. We also shouldn't feel bad about protecting ourselves from the players and sociopaths, that's every woman's right. And though we may have pure hearts, we're not doing such a bad job of protecting ourselves because, afterall, aren't we here seeking MOA's advice? That's right, we're no dummies even though some men may have underestimated us :)

Though some women on here have described MOA as 'strict,' I personally believe that she's very clear and right about many things, and until I know better about what I'm doing myself, I plan on just following everything she says to a "T."

I already feel stronger, more confident and independent, and I'm not just talking about dating stuff. I've used it for almost everything I do. I don't apply her ideas just to observe and determine what kind of men I'm dealing with, I also apply the same ideas to myself: for example, making sure I do what I say and not just talk.

I'm so grateful that MOA has provided us women with a "safe place" to come together like this for assistance and support. Though some of us women have made some mistakes and continue to make mistakes, I think we're all learning together and from each other, and I am getting the impression that most of the women on here are really good women and deserve a really good man.

Thanks MOA for all the help you've given us women. What would we do without you?!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dee,
LOL, I always address this when it comes up, "some women on here have described MOA as strict."

Yea, I am and I don't run from that, I accept that as my truth and I stand by it. And for good reason, because over the years, through observation of my own actions, I've realized some additional "truths" about life. Let me explain.

Over the years, when reflecting back on the choices I've made, I realized something very important. And what I realized is that each time I made an exception, each time I gave the benefit of doubt to someone (in this case, men), each time I made excuses or overlooked certain things, I realized that when the relationship ended with me being hurt...the reason I got hurt...went right back to the things I originally overlooked, made excuses for or issued the benefit of doubt over.

It was ALWAYS those things that came back and bit me in the ass, LOL.

For instance, years ago I was involved with a man and there were red flags around the one month or six week mark. One of which was, he invited me to attend a wedding with him out of state as his guest. I went with him and 2 of his friends and we drove out of state in a car THEY had rented. I didn't know these folks, I didn't know the bride and groom, I was attending as his guest.

We return, and this guy asks me for 1/4 of the rental car fee - AFTER we returned. Never mentioned it when he invited me, never mentioned it on the trip, invited me as his guest and I went, only to be hit with a damn bill when we got back for $150 to go see two strangers I didn't even know get married. I gave this guy the benefit of doubt, made excuses for the situation and paid. That was red flag number one.

Red flag number two was rumors of this man having had an affair with his buddies wife for a few years off an on. I had no way to verify if it was over or not, but because he chose to spend time with me and I really didn't see any clues as to him disappearing to spend time with her...I assumed it was officially over. And at that time, it very well may have been for a while.

But as I always say and have learned the hard way, you can predict someone's future behavior based on their past behavior. So this relationship goes on for about two years off and on, only for ME to start footing the bill for everything we did. He'd ask me out, then he's "forget" his wallet. Now this guy was a union brick layer making $32 an hour. It was Mother's Day one year, he had $600 in his pocket, and he didn't buy his mother a gift because he didn't want to spend the money. I respected her so I bought her her damn Mother's Day gift, while old tight wad held on tight to his money.

This guy turned out to be the cheapest, most selfish man on the planet. I saw evidence of this about 6 weeks into our relationship...and ignored it, I stayed. And it cost me dearly because eventually, I was picking up tabs for things I should've never been picking up tabs for - all the damn time. This guy never lifted a finger for me and once for my birthday, get this, he bought me a friggin' CHAINSAW. Yes, a chainsaw. Why? Because I needed one up at my camp. He wanted to use a chainsaw up at my camp, so he turned that chainsaw into my birthday gift so he could have the chainsaw he wanted and not have to buy me a birthday gift.

Worst birthday gift ever for a woman? A friggin' chainsaw LOL.

Next thing ya' know, he's moving his way into my home, bringing more and more of his stuff slowly into my home and leaving it there. I recognized this so I sat him down and told him he'd have to contribute. I tested him and asked him to give me the $60 for the electric bill. His response? "I'll have to check my bank account first and make sure it doesn't put me out." I'll never forget that. A man who makes $32 an hour, has $600 in his pocket at all times...has to check to see if $60 for bills for a house he's now living in will put him out.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Then it got worse. He started acting shady and he was now living in my damn house. So one night, I did what any smart woman would do. I waited for his ass to pass out and I went into his phone, LOL. Hey, he's in my house, sleeping up in my bed, not contributing because he's cheap and living off of me, so yea, I felt I had a right, and I went into his phone. Low and behold, in his call record, he's talking to his buddies wife. They're texting and calling. I even found a very long number in their that turned out to be a calling card number, so that her husband couldn't trace the incoming call back to his phone.

Needless to say, I went upstairs, ripped him right out of my bed at 1AM, packed all his crap in garbage bags in about two seconds flat...and literally...literally tossed him out on his ass, his own bags landing on his head.

I was hurt, I felt foolish, I was duped, and I'd been working my ass off to keep that relationship alive and for what? Nothing. For a bunch of disrespect. And when I reflected and thought back on it...the signs were all there within the first 6 weeks. Had I NOT overlooked them, made excuses for them and gave him the benefit of doubt and broke up with him right then and there, 6 weeks into that relationship...NONE of that would've ever happened to me. The fact that that all happened, was directly my fault because I saw "warning" signs, danger signs, and I still proceeded forward with the relationship.

And in the end, it was the guy being cheap and cheating that did it in. And BOTH of those things became evident 6 weeks into the relationship, and I ignored them.

The things you ignore, overloook, make excuses for and issue the benefit of doubt over...they come right back and eventually become the death of the relationship. Had I better protected myself early on....I never would've gotten hurt in that relationship to the extent that I did. In the end, it was MY OWN DAMN FAULT that I experienced all that pain at this man's hands.

And there you have it ladies....the birth of my "ZERO TOLERANCE" policy with regards to poor treatment and bad behavior and the insights gleaned from proper observation and recognition.

And when I looked back further into my past, I realized that the entire time, what eventually became the end of each relationship...was evident to me within the first month or two and it was ME CHOOSING to overlook those things, that would get me hurt as bad as I'd end up being hurt. A pattern became evident to me, but it wasn't THEIR pattern...it WAS MINE that became evident.

It was MY PATTERN of overlooking these things, being too damn nice, being too damn accomodating and making excuses all the time - that got me hurt.

Zero tolerance ladies...it does a body good, LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 9, 9:59 PM,
Sorry, that comment above was actually in response to you, not Dee :-)

Gemini50 said...

@Ms. Mirror,
Bravo lady! Great reinforcement.

Yesterday I had the same type of revelation talking w/a happily married 53 yr old male co-worker about the "single" scene.

I shared the P story and 53 guessed exactly what P did regarding the tab. Then 53 asked me if I gave him my number.

When I explained he didn't ask, 53 said there are guys who are insecure around smart women.

I responded, "then those guys are not the ones for me."

53 was really trying to help me and repeated the comment about insecure guys as if he was trying to get me to understand them and for me to take the lead.

I explained what you've taught here in regards to men leading vs women leading and the male laziness when the latter occurs. I explained how men will come home with me for sex, but that will be it for them.

I could see him thinking about it, agreeing, but he was still defending the insecure guy.

I repeated that he (the insecure guy) is not the guy for me. (Not disrespectfully, just as a matter of fact.)

53 finally got it. I walked away with the realization of that fact and how my overlooking and making excuses for men led to my emotional exhaustion.

And when asking myself the reasons I had done this in the past, there were some pretty hard answers to address. I can say none of my actions were out of mallace, but certainly my shortfalls impacted more than just myself.

I am finding to truly be true to yourself is not an easy task. It takes a lot of work.

Your explanation clearly shows we can change our lives.

Thank you!

And a shout out to all the ladies here on your journey... keep going and believe in your self (Hugs)



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gemini50,
I'm glad you found that story meaningful and understood the message there. It also reinforces the fact that's often overlooked...change truly does begin with ourselves. If you want change to occur in your life, then you have to change. It's an uncomfortable feeling, yet a harsh reality at the same time.

If we all put the energy into changing ourselves that women often erroneously invest in trying to change men instead, we'd learn that walking away is truly the better option for ourselves and our investment would have better payoff if that energy were invested into ourselves instead of depleting ourselves investing it into others with no return on that investment :-)

Dee said...

Thanks for the support "Anonymous". It really is a shame that people will take advantage of women like us instead of appreciating our pure hearts.

The guy in question did actually text me last night after disappearing for almost a week, replying to my text and telling me his phone had been cut off. Hmm. Even if I believed that, it's hardly his only form of communication as he has my email address so why does he think it's a good excuse for disappearing for a week?? I gave him a very blunt response (I know I should have given none, but I'd been drinking) and he then asked me if I was free to meet for a drink today...seriously?! Why would any guy think that someone they have not spoken to for a week after one date would still be interested in pursuing things with them? And why has he left it 2 weeks to ask me for a 2nd date and expect I'm going to drop everything and meet him for a last minute drink? I just can't believe how deluded some people are! Suffice it to say I didn't respond to that text and I won't be responding. Yes there is a part of me that would have liked to say yes (the part of me that doesn't see my own worth I guess and somehow still believes he's a good guy) but I will fight it. Without your advice though I may have been too forgiving and allowed him another chance, another chance to use me and leave me. No. Way! - Dee

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I have just found your post here. Yes, I absolutely agree. I have also often seen red flags and disregarded them, to my detriment. My thinking went along the lines that I was overly sensitive, that another, "stronger" woman would ignore such "minor" faults, etc. And of course, I ended up heartbroken. And I must admit that I still sometimes have doubts about myself in this respect. Since I have been single I wonder if I am not too demanding,expecting too much of men, etc. But deep in my heart I know that I am not and I absolutely agree with you and Gemini50 that we women must learn to put ourselves first in our own lives despite all societal expectations or myths.

Hopeful

Anonymous said...

I agree totally all this giving, making excuses etc etc is just totally emotionally depleting but only looking after your true self can change this and then you're not the victim anymore...

We were talking about this the other night in this spiritual women's group I go to and basically sensitive and spiritual people easy become victim as there are many people out there that are dark - the narcissists or even really selfish people and they're attracted to your light and energy and their sole purpose is to drain it out of you and feed off you...feeding their emptiness and lack of wholeness..

and you really need to protect yourself - and by saying no to giving the benefit of the doubt, not making excuses etc etc you're not the victim anymore.

I've been on this site for about a year and learning all the time and from one of Mirror's posts to me I realised that I give the benefit of the doubt to people and also give them my trust too easily, she has made me aware of that and I am truly grateful! :)

Funny because a clairvoyant said to me recently that I take men on face value and trust too easily and I couldn't see it at the time but I was having some bad experiences with men.

I think you have to be strict with yourself and these men have to prove themselves to you over time. It's funny even my DM when I met him said he thought I was gullible and I didn't see it at the time. I don't think I am but I do think that I have given people the benefit of the doubt etc etc and that's what he was probably picking up on and the fact that it made me think well if you're are thinking that maybe he was deceiving me in some way for him to come to that conclusion and just because I never said everything in words, never meant that I was taking it all in but I was clocking it all... LOL but true Mirror stylie I never said anything and disappeared on him and didn't give chase when he disappeared on me.

Take your power back ladies, do not be afraid to stand alone by yourself because you are never alone, connect with yourself and we have this wonderful community and sisterhood here thanks to Ms Mirror!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 10, 3:36PM,
"one of Mirror's posts to me I realised that I give the benefit of the doubt to people and also give them my trust too easily, she has made me aware of that"

You're not the only woman out there that's been like that dear, as I'm sure you now know. And I think this comes from, as Hopeful mentioned, societal expectations. Women are "groomed" so-to-speak to be like that from most everyone around them growing up, without those or the woman even realizing it.

For example, ever notice that in school, say elementary school, when kids start to test boundaries with one another and others and start bullying when testing those boundaries...ever notice the advice given to the girls versus the boys? It's generally something along the lines of, "Oh, don't worry about it honey. They're just kids being kids. You're a nice person and if you just keep being nice, they'll see that and they won't pick on you anymore. Maybe you can try making friends with them instead?"

But the boy gets the EXACT opposite advice. Generally, he's instructed to, "Stand up for yourself here. Don't let anyone push you around. If they're picking on you and they hurt you, you need to fight back." And I've even seen that taken as far as actually teaching the boy how to fight and defend himself in order to accomplish that.

Girls are constantly reinforced to "be nice" and told that if that's done, people will eventually like you for it. But boys, they're told to "stand up for yourself" and fight back and defend themselves to not let anyone push them around.

It's just one very basic, general example. I mean let's face it, very rarely do you see ANYONE teaching a female or a young girl how to properly defend herself and stand up for herself. The answer is almost always "be nice and they'll like you." So the reality becomes one in which women, females, are generally raised WITHOUT learning the skills of how to properly stand up for themselves and defend themselves properly.

And I believe that's the number one reason why women, as adults, don't even know where to start with that, don't have the skills to do it, are not comfortable with it, and generally do a poor job of it - because not only is it a completely foreign topic or idea to them....it's also one that they've never really even been instructed to do before. When someone says to a women for the first time, "stand up for yourself" many times, she's caught off guard by that and immediately is like, "but HOW do you do that?"

No one ever taught us. No one ever instructed us. No one ever helped us actually do that. No one ever advised us to do that. And no one has ever even probably really signaled before that it's even okay as a woman to do that. You're supposed to learn certain skills at a young age in life that help you survive and get through life yet no one....not teachers, very rarely parents and family, friends, strangers...no one is actually teaching young girls the skills to effectively do this. Everyone seems more concerned with making sure young girls are "nice" all the damn time, while boys are instructed to "get out there and fight if you have to."

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

When you think about it like that, it's really kinda' whacked. And why we continue to do this as a society, particularly in this day and age, is beyond me. Even when you see girls fighting on YouTube in videos at the bus stop, those videos are always a big damn deal. It's like, "OMG, look! It's GIRLS fighting." Like it's some foreign thing that's taboo and very rare. With boys it's like, "Oh look, boys will be boys." But with women it's like some rare bigfoot sighting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that women get out there and beat each other up. But I'm also saying that if someone is coming at you like that, there are times in life when you need the skills to properly defend yourself, verbally, physically, spiritually and emotionally....yet very few mentors to young women actually TEACH the value of that. Boys are taught that at a very young age, so by the time they're adults, they're comfortable with it and have the skills to get themselves through it, knowing what's expected of them. But girls, they're kinda' left on their own as adults, without those skills, without having gotten comfortable with the idea of standing up for yourself, left not knowing what's expected from them as "proper" behavior.

And in this day and age, why we continue to do this, I'll never know, because women need to protect themselves now more than ever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a strong young woman and being "nice" all the time is not the answer to every single one of life's problems for a woman.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And as I read that comment above back, I realize that at a very young age generally speaking, YOUNG BOYS ARE GIVEN CONFIDENCE (by receiving support from others to stand up for themselves) while YOUNG GIRLS ONLY EXPERIENCE HAVING IT CONSTANTLY YANKED AWAY (by not receiving support from others to stand up for themselves and instead, are repeatedly instructed by others to stand down).

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I'm Anonymous May 9, 9:59 PM. Thank you for sharing your story with us. It's hard to believe that once upon a time, even you overlooked the red flags. I agree that women often make excuses for men to try and make things work. We're not happy with their behavior, often times we're pissed, but somehow we still automatically give them a pass. And then when they repeat the behavior, we're shocked! In regards to the Mother's Day Gift you bought for his mother: I bet he was just waiting for you to do just that so he didn't have to spend his own money buying one. What an ass. And wow, I'm sorry you had to receive a chainsaw for a birthday 'gift.' That's just awful. What in the world is wrong with these men??? Well, I hope you returned the favor and gave him a nice big box of tampons for his birthday. I also can't believe you actually paid for the rental car and then had to pay for all the subsequent dates too; it didn't sound like you at all... so-you-are-human-afterall, lol! Knowing that helps us women because while we may not yet be as strong or as wise as you, it gives us hope for the future so thank you again for sharing your story with us.

Your chainsaw guy actually sounds very similar to a guy I had to deal with, the only difference was that I had to pay 1/2 instead of 1/4, lol. Looking back on the experience, I think he asked me out because he wanted some female company, but mostly because it just made 'good economic sense' for him (to have someone pay for his cab ride home at 2 in the morning.) The whole purpose of him asking me out that night was because I conveniently fit into his plan of attending the work function at the bar and finding a free, cheap way to get home at 2 a.m. when the trains were sparse. Believe it or not, I wondered about someday giving this guy a second chance if he ever came crawling back, but your story just made me determined not to. Like your guy, he was probably a cheat too on top of it all because he'd asked me if I had a guy in my life, and I replied no, and when I asked about him, he sort of smiled and said: "Well, sure," as if to say, well of course, what did you expect? But he explained that he didn't bring her to the wedding because it was "too much family" (for those of you who aren't familiar, I talked about my 'German guy experience' in another section.) Well, that told me several things about him: a.) he wasn't serious about her and b.) he was cheating on her by flirting and having dinner with me this whole time. It made me feel like what the hell was I doing with him, wish he would have told me THAT 'minor little detail' sooner, just like the 'little issue of the cab fare.' So I cut him out cause he's cheap, and he's also a cheat. He told me right after he revealed that he was already seeing someone, "Don't you think as we get older, it's better not to be alone?"

Anonymous said...

Note to all the guys prowling MOA's site: if you're going to make a woman pay on the date YOU asked her out on, at least be honest and upfront about it and tell her that she's going to have to pay on the date BEFORE you go, that way she knows what she's getting into and will be prepared that you're cheap (that is, if she actually shows up to the date, lol), but to surprise her DURING or AFTER the date with either a demand for payment or an itemized bill, uh no, that's just not cool, o.k. It's a HUGE turn-off so don't do that. No matter how slick you think you are, she's going to notice that, and no, she won't just let that slide by unless she's got low self-esteem. I'm sure that's not the kind of girl you want to be dating anyways, unless you don't care or that's your thing for some strange reason. Oh, and btw, if you already have a girlfriend, be upfront about that one too. (That's kind of important.) And if you leave either one of those things out, IT MAKES YOU A DICK, O.K. Sure, she may not ever go out with you upon learning either of those things, but guess what, there's another way, a better way, otherwise known as "the right way": if you really want to date her, then how about just paying for the damn date or breaking up with your gf BEFORE you start-up something new? With all the creative tactics and tricks you men young and old seem to have up your sleeves, it's odd that that one never seems to cross your minds.

I personally don't think you're 'strict,' MOA. I think you're just urging us women to use our common sense and stick with it (which can be difficult and easily go out the window if we get all emotionally wrapped up in a guy; that's why it helps having solid guidelines like the ones you provide to also account for a margin of error.) I'll admit, change is difficult AND uncomfortable, but I'm working through it and taking it one step at a time. I've already made it through a few NCs so I'm happy and proud about that!

@Dee, let's keep our pure hearts (I really like having one) but see the red flags waving right in front of us and get better at protecting ourselves. I'd say we're not doing so bad, besides we've got MOA on our team :)

@Ladies, let's continue to stick together and find better men than the ones we've been dealing with.

Happy Mother's Day!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 9, 9:59 PM,
"I also can't believe you actually paid for the rental car and then had to pay for all the subsequent dates too; it didn't sound like you at all... so-you-are-human-afterall"

Absolutely dear, how do you think I arrived at all of the conclusions and insights about dating/men/life etc. that I have...trust me, I learned the hard way, LOL. I'm a woman too and I've made many mistakes and each and every one of them cost me. I don't suggest that you gals do anything I haven't done myself to change. It's hard, but it can happen if you want it to :-)

"he'd asked me if I had a guy in my life, and I replied no"

Next time, answer that in a vague way dear and always imply that there is, even if there isn't. Say something like, "Well, I date if that's what you mean" and give him something to think about ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I'm @Anonymous May 9, 9:59 PM. Great advice - a little mystery never hurts with men I guess!

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

So this guy I know wanted me to fly out to where he lives. He told me beforehand that he's really busy so he may not be able to spend a lot of time. He paid for all the previous flights out there, but I found out that this flight, for some reason, would not be paid for. So I didn't go. As soon as he found out that I wouldn't be going, he asked when I'd like to leave and made it sound like all of a sudden he would be covering the airfare as if he didn't know that I wasn't going. It was a little strange... anyways, I told him thanks for the invite, but I can't make it (work.) He then brought a girl to the get together we were supposed to have (they seemed like they were together, according to our mutual acquaintance) and then some time later, told our mutual acquaintance that he now has a gf (knowing that the news would get back to me.) But a while later, he asked me to come out again, but I again declined because I wasn't sure if he was going to pay for the flight, and it was a little awkward for me knowing that there was another girl. He hasn't asked me to come out again.

Did I handle this o.k. or was I too strict?

Infrequent Flyer

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
No dear, you handled it well and you protected yourself and by holding back with him, you actually sussed him out. You holding back is what actually brought the other woman to the light. Had you complied and gone, you never probably would've know about her.

What kind of a man has a GF and then invites another woman to visit him? It speaks to his character as a man dear. If he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you. If he's going to cheat on his GF with you, then he'll cheat on you someday too. He's got a GF and he's trying to get another woman to fly out to see him. Not a good guy dear :-(

Anonymous said...

Thank you MOA, you cleared-up a lot of questions I had. I thought maybe he was trying to get back at me for not going, but it sounds like maybe he had this girl all along.

Your point about his cheating behavior reminded me of something I had tucked away in my memory during one of my previous visits to his place: in one of our conversations, he started talking about Tiger Woods and his cheating problem. I didn't really care about Tiger Woods so I wasn't aware of all the details surrounding his life & women when he brought it up, but the guy I was visiting made a remark to me that kind of raised a little bit of a suspicion in my mind. He said he's no longer playing well. I asked him why? He replied, you don't know anything about this do you? He continued, well, he cheated on his wife. It's probably all mental because he's lost his wife, his kids, everything -- I personally think he deserved it.

I felt like the last part was unnecessary. I mean, c'mon, the guy cheated. That goes without saying, doesn't it?

But in a way, he's doing the same thing. So what was the point of him making that remark about Tiger Woods when he's actually doing the same thing? I had no proof at the time, but I felt like he was trying to cover something up and that's why that little remark of his stuck in my mind.

Sometimes I wonder why men lack so much focus and self-control!

Infrequent Flyer

Anonymous said...

P.S. When men don't pay for something, are they testing you to see if you're interested enough in him to pony up some dough? (Or of course he could just be plain cheap.) In this particular case, I felt like he was testing me to see if I liked him enough to pay my own way (and maybe he was being cheap too.) The truth was, I didn't want to see him THAT MUCH that I would do everything within my means financially to make the trip possible, but I was more willing to explore the possibilities and for the opportunity to observe him a little further IF he paid for the trip. I feel like men these days don't know how to 'court' a woman anymore, and I feel like I'm being a b**ch by having all these expectations of them :( I feel like I protected myself but it's not always a good feeling :(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
"what was the point of him making that remark about Tiger Woods when he's actually doing the same thing?"

I think he was testing your reaction there - testing your feelings about "cheaters" in general. Because your reaction to that would've given him a clue as to how you would react to him, had you discovered the same thing.

"That goes without saying, doesn't it?"

This is a concept that I like to refer to as "stating the obvious." And yep, it's always a red flag. Let me explain. For instance, ever hear someone repeatedly say, "You can trust me." And then they turn around and screw you?

When someone is repeatedly stating the obvious, something that should go without saying, what they're really saying is, "You can't trust me. And because of that, I'm afraid it'll show. I don't want you to know that, so instead, I'm going to go full throttle in the other direction by overcompensating heavily in my attempts to make you think you CAN trust me."

I feel I can be trusted. And as a result, I don't feel the need to go around constantly telling others they can trust me. However, if I knew I could NOT be trusted, in order to fake others out so they wouldn't sense that, I might decide to overcompensate for my shortcoming by forcefully getting folks to think I CAN be trusted. See what I mean?

"When men don't pay for something, are they testing you to see if you're interested enough in him to pony up some dough?"

Yea, I do feel that nowadays, people do test this more often. But sometimes, people are just cheap and sometimes, people think since times have changed, that women and men are equals on all levels and women don't need that feeling of romance anymore and don't need to know a man is a real man in order for her to be attracted to him. And I disagree with that. While I do feel women and men are equals, the reality is that - they're still very DIFFERENT from one another. Equal - but different. Women and men have different needs. And women still need their feminine, emotional needs to be met by men.

"I feel like I'm being a b**ch by having all these expectations of them :( I feel like I protected myself but it's not always a good feeling"

The expectations you have dear are not as heavy as you think. Many modern day men will have you believe you're asking for a lot. But all that you're really expecting dear - is human dignity. All you're expecting is to be respected as a woman and treated like a lady. That's it. And that's not asking much. Men who will attempt to get you to believe otherwise about that - RUN from them. Because it's a signal that they're never going to lift a finger for you - ever. Men like that will never go out of their way to fulfill your needs or make you happy, so move away from them.

And the only reason you're feeling crappy about that right now, is because you're not used to it and it's an uncomfortable feeling. Looking out for yourself and sticking up for yourself is an uncomfortable feeling at first since it's one that's actually foreign to many women because society signals to women on many levels "be nice, be kind, smile, jump through hoops to do, do, do for others - and they'll love you for it." And these days, that's simply not true. These days, if you behave like that as a woman, someone will quickly take advantage of your kindness by mistaking it for weakness :-(

But once you get over that hurdle dear, once you get comfortable with that - you will find that you'll experience the opposite. Instead of being uncomfortable, you'll feel great about yourself :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I've been dating this guy for about a month. He's been to my house to pick me up and drop me off after dates, but yesterday was the first night I invited him inside. We played cards and talked for a couple hours, then he attempted to take things further. I told him I wasn't ready...he tried a couple more times then left it alone. We ended the night on good terms but he was disappointed. He came by today to pick me up for a date, but I had a personal issue that prevented me from leaving the house - rather than cancelling, we improvised and watched a movie on the couch. Of course he initiated sex again and I, once again, told him I wasn't ready. But unlike yesterday, he seemed frustrated and confused. He wasn't mean or disrespectful, but he did ask what he was doing wrong, and what was holding me back. I told him he was doing everything right and that I liked him, but I didn't know him well enough to have sex with him. He gave me this really confused look, kissed me and left.

The truth is I understand why he's confused, hell I'm confused! He's yet to disappoint me, we go out 2-3 times a week, he's paid for all dates, he's sent me flowers twice, we talk every day for at least an hour, he's never missed my call without a legitimate explanation, he sends me random text messages throughout the day, he makes me laugh - he really seems like a good guy. However, he has not said we're exclusive and I have never met his children - these two things are holding me back, but I don’t necessarily want to tell him that’s what’s holding me back.

Mirror, I feel pressured. I want to take things further with him, but I'm not emotionally prepared to deal with the possible consequences of taking things further so soon. Chances are, he's not said we're exclusive and I've not met his children because he's still feeling me out - and that's fine, we’ve only been dating for a month.

Here are my questions for you:

1. Did I send mixed signals when I invited him in?
2. How do I operate within the boundaries I’ve set without making him feel rejected or pressured?
3. Do you think my dating “rules” are outdated?

Any advice would be helpful.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 27, 2:33 AM,
"Do you think my dating “rules” are outdated?"

Nope. I do not think they're outdated. Never feel pressured by society to do things you're not comfortable doing - ever. Stand firm in your beliefs and remain true to yourself. If this man genuinely cares for you, he'll understand that and he'll be willing to move at your pace. And if he doesn't understand and he isn't willing to move at your pace, then that tells you something dear. If he's not willing to be understanding and accepting early on - he won't be willing to do that later on down the line should a committed relationship develop. You can somewhat predict someone's future behavior based on their past behavior.

"How do I operate within the boundaries I’ve set without making him feel rejected or pressured?"

Simply offer the explanation the next time he asks what's wrong. Explain to him, keep it short though, that you don't believe in sex before commitment and that you feel much more secure giving of yourself like that to someone who's made a commitment to you.

"Did I send mixed signals when I invited him in?"

I would say no, but in this modern day and age, I think for many men - the invite in means "bingo!" So it's possibly he did interpret that as an invitation for sex. But I do not believe that an invite into your home is an invitation for sex and men who see it that way are being very presumptuous. I mean, you invite the neighbor in, or the pizza delivery man while he's waiting to get paid, or friends for socializing - but that doesn't mean that you're prepared to sleep with them. I believe you should be able to invite someone in for socializing without it being a green light for sex. But nowadays, I think the majority of men are over-sexed in this society and have become rather entitled about it, so they may interpret it erroneously in that way.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

Thank you for your insights!

"I think he was testing your reaction there - testing your feelings about "cheaters" in general. Because your reaction to that would've given him a clue as to how you would react to him, had you discovered the same thing."

Wow, I think you nailed it...of course that's why he brought it up! I didn't get a chance to respond or say anything because I was busy thinking hmm, sounds like a cover-up... so he didn't gain anything from talking about Tiger Woods, lol, but I guess I did because he ended up giving himself away in a way, hehe. Hmm, feels good to see them trip-up sometimes.

I was so relieved when you said "The expectations you have dear are not as heavy as you think" because I was beginning to doubt myself. I thought I was being unreasonable because men basically disappear after I make my expectations clear or do not do as they ask. I don't make it clear verbally or through confrontations, I just don't do what they ask me to do or anything that I'm not comfortable with. For instance: I disregarded a request to contact him. As we were saying good-bye during my last visit to his place, he asked me to let him know when my performance would be because he really wants to go. I took that as he was putting the ball in MY court so I left it at, yeah, if we actually end up HAVING a performance! Was that bad? Or rude, especially after he paid for the trip? My gut was telling me that he was now wanting me to start doing some of the 'work' and sure enough, a few months later for the next trip, he expected me to pay my own way there until it was clear that I wasn't going, then he scrambled to pay, but by then my mind was already made up, and I didn't go because I felt like he was playing games and took him to be of the 'half-interested' variety. I was doubting myself though because a lot of men would have just left it at that and not even offered in the end.

I felt like I maintained my sanity, but I was still feeling pretty crappy about it. I didn't know why, but it just didn't feel good. I think I understand why I am feeling this way. I used to do, do, do, as you often describe, even when I was mistreated or abused because I felt I should just keep doing the right thing regardless of how wrong or bad the other person was. But what I didn't realize with my do do doing was that I was inadvertently "training" the other people to treat me bad. So maybe it is just a matter of getting used to this new way of handling things. It's a big change for me, and I know that with change comes UNCOMFORTABLE. I have to be honest: it feels plain yucky. But I hope I can get to that point you are talking about where I can feel GREAT about myself.

And in regards to inviting men into your home: I've had men invite THEMSELVES over with no invitation of my own. Men just seem very optimistic about being let in to a woman's home to the point of being annoying! I think you're right about it stemming from their sense of entitlement. This never used to happen before. Men were more aware and considerate of our discomfort. Sure, they were eventually welcome after a substantial getting-to-know period. This is not a prerequisite any longer it seems. I have to say it's a really strange time to be dating. So confusing sometimes!


Infrequent Flyer

Gemini50 said...

@Infrequent Flyer,

"I feel like I protected myself but it's not always a good feeling."

Yep.

Change is not easy, not comfortable, and not fun a lot of the time. But with practice, it gets easier -- honest. And with practice, we will win some, lose some, and sometimes just walk away shaking our heads thinking wtf? But as long as we stay in the game, continue to learn, continue to try, continue to take our lessons and apply them as we go, our landscape of life will change.

For you and all of the women visiting this site, trust your self, and trust this process of learning how to say, "no." Many of us are taught at such a young age to consider everyone's else's feelings before our own, that we lose our ability to connect with and protect ourselves. Practice ladies. It's not being a bitch to say, "no," - although Ms. Mirror loves the Babe In Total Control of Herself description :-). "No," is just not "yes."

We are not so powerful that we are casting an infliction on someone (although some guys may want you to think so) when we say, "no," it is simply you making a choice for what is best for you at the time; and in the dating world, it is you weeding out the losers from the good men.

"No," is not you saying, "F*ck you, you piece of Shi*." (although it could be if you wanted it to I guess lol). Often, "No," is just you saying, "Naw, this isn't/wouldn't be good for me, so I'm going to pass, but good luck to you..."

"No," doesn't have to be a judgment of others, it could be a choice for you. So, if you aren't feeling comfortable saying, "No," flip that script. It's not about THEM, it's about YOU and how YOU choose to live YOUR life.

All the best ladies!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
"I disregarded a request to contact him. As we were saying good-bye during my last visit to his place, he asked me to let him know when my performance would be because he really wants to go. I took that as he was putting the ball in MY court so I left it at, yeah, if we actually end up HAVING a performance! Was that bad? Or rude, especially after he paid for the trip?"

I don't think that was rude dear. What may have been rude is if the performance actually took place, and you failed to notify him or give him the opportunity to attend. But even in that particular scenario, you two are only casually dating and honestly, if you didn't want him at the performance, it's within your rights to not include him. You're not committed to this man, you don't owe him anything and you are not obligated to him in any way. Remember that. You only commit to those that are committing to you. When that commitment doesn't exist, you're each free to do as you please. And if spending money on flying you to see him bothers him and doesn't sit well with him, remember, he's a grown man, he's also got the right to free will and choice - and he's free to spend that money on his own airfare to come and see you :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks MOA! The performance didn't take place. In the past, he was invited to at least two other performances (the first one he invited himself to but decided to no-show at the last minute; the second one someone else invited him but he couldn't make it or didn't want to be there.) What bothered me a bit was that I didn't contact him re: the performance because there was none, but he didn't contact me to either inquire or make an effort to see me under other circumstances, so I took his non-action to mean that he was only half-interested. I don't know whether it was him being passive aggressive when he subsequently expected me pay for my own flight out to his place, but truthfully, I didn't want to put myself out there so much for a guy that seemed to demonstrate that he was only half-interested. I'm not used to being so rigid with a guy (well, I was never loose either) but the 'old me' would have definitely paid for the flight out there without complaining and despite feeling extremely uncomfortable about it. I felt like he left our next meeting up to chance by asking ME to contact him (he was fully aware that the performance may or may not take place) and risking turning me off by not taking care of the flight. He came across as lukewarm even though he paid for all the previous flights. Glad to know you don't think I was rude (I tend to worry about that a lot) and no, we're not really even dating. The meetings are so sporadic, I can't really call it that either. I'm sure he's got others. That's the only reason I can think of. He tends to pop back in out of the blue (he would be a disappearing reappearing man for sure) after a really long time has gone by. We're talking YEARS sometimes!

Infrequent Flyer

Anonymous said...

Thanks Gemini50 for your words of support! This is definitely something I need to get used to. I'm struggling with the uncomfortable feelings, but I'm making myself deal with it, hoping that it will eventually lead to my feeling great, as MOA says.

Infrequent Flyer

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms. Mirror, Infrequent Flyer here. So the guy I wrote to you about in my previous posts contacted my family (not me directly) and is coming to my town (just as you thought he should be capable of, lol!) He asked my family out (including me) to a restaurant tomorrow. I'm not sure what to do. On the one hand, I'd like to go because I'm in a good mood and feeling good about myself, but on the other hand, it seems to me like he just wants to pop in and out of our lives and expect to see us (& me) whenever the hell he feels like it, and I'm not sure, after my last experience with him, whether I want to give him that satisfaction. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Infrequent Flyer

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
"What would you do if you were in my shoes?"

I'd sit down and spend some time thinking about how I feel. How would I feel around him and how would I feel if I skipped the dinner? And then based on what I felt, I'd proceed accordingly :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms. Mirror,

Following your advice, I thought about how I would feel putting myself back in this situation, about how I would feel around him, and about how I would feel not meeting with him today. And I came to the conclusion that I really don't feel comfortable going to meet him just because he snapped his fingers. Perhaps it's my own insecurity, but I didn't feel like jumping on this opportunity just because he invited me too. He could have called me or e-mailed me directly to invite me personally (he has my contact) yet he didn't and so I felt like the only reason he invited me was to see if I would show-up, not necessarily because he wanted to see me. If I did jump through his little hoops, he would know that he still had me on the back-burner so to speak and would most likely disappear again, feeling satisfied that I wasn't going anywhere soon. I didn't like that he would then know that I'd be right there whenever he felt like seeing me.

I think I held onto my dignity by not going. However, my family is giving me hell right now because they think he's 'perfect' for me. That's the other thing. I feel like they make it too obvious to both him and I that they think he's great and try to push matters along in an unnatural way therefore making me feel as though I have to overcompensate the other way by remaining cool to balance it all out. I don't like the pressure that my own family is giving me, and they can scream and hollar at me all they want, but I really just feel like I need more "proof" that he really truly wants me there. So far, his contact with me/us has just been too inconsistent, and I didn't want to get myself started-up all over again only to have him disappear for another year or two.

I don't know if I made the right decision. This is a new way of handling things for me (really examining my own feelings about the whole situation.) In the past, I've always given in to the feeling of obligation or some other principle that is completley unrelated to how I am really feeling. As you often mention, I guess only time will tell. I know I would have been uncomfortable going to meet with him simply because I would feel like a trained animal, jumping through everyone's hoops, feeling depleted both physically and emotionally, and I am not sure I would have had fun. I think I would have been happy feeling like I had fulfilled everyone else's requests, but really, I had to ask myself, why do I feel that I am obligated to go just because someone invited me and just because my family desperately wants me to go? This time I decided to be true to myself but am suffering from the backlash. I'm hoping things will settle down soon, and people would just relax!

If he's really truly interested in me, I figure he'll make another attempt. I think I may be more comfortable accepting invitations at that time. I guess what I'm really looking for is some sign of consistency and persistence on his part so that I feel comfortable knowing he wasn't just checking in on the back burner. Right now I feel like I'm just one of those back burner pots.

Infrequent Flyer

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
" He could have called me or e-mailed me directly to invite me personally (he has my contact) yet he didn't...I really don't feel comfortable going to meet him"

I don't blame you dear. Personally, I'd feel insulted that he went about this in the way he did - avoiding me - yet inviting me through my own damn family. It's the equivalent of, "I'm going to see your family, and I guess if you want, you can join us." Going about it in that way would make me feel insignificant and like an afterthought to the entire thing.

"my family is giving me hell right now because they think he's 'perfect' for me."

That's fine - but it's none of their business and they have no say-so in your life or your happiness. They also most likely do not understand the dynamic or subtleties of what's taking place here and how he's treating you. Let them give you hell. Thank them for their concern - but you're an adult and you'll make your own decisions.

"they make it too obvious to both him and I that they think he's great and try to push matters along in an unnatural way"

You need to confront them about this and ask that they please stop interfering because they're further complicating the situation and making you very uncomfortable about the entire thing and causing you increased anxiety over it.

"they can scream and hollar at me all they want"

If they're literally screaming and hollering at you over some guy...something is VERY wrong there dear. Your family should be on YOUR side, supportive of YOU. They should not be meddling in your personal life to such an extent that everyone's emotions are all worked up and people are screaming over it.

It's just a guy - it's not the Pope LOL.

"I don't know if I made the right decision."

Well, for what it's worth - I think you did. I think you went about this maturely by first getting in touch with yourself, connecting with your own inner feelings about this, and then proceeding accordingly. That's how to properly make decisions in life that you'll feel good about afterwards. If people are pushing you to be impulsive or attempting to control your decision process and asking you to put yourself in a position where you look like some desperate woman whose entire family is in an uproar about finding her a man....THAT is not going to look attractive to anyone - and you won't feel good about YOURSELF in the end.

"This is a new way of handling things for me (really examining my own feelings about the whole situation.)"

That's how you connect with yourself and your own inner emotions dear - and that's how you make the best decisions for yourself. Take 20 minutes to be alone and just think. And while you're thinking, really tune into how you're feeling - and if you do that - if you listen to your gut - it'll never steer you wrong.

Cont..

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...


"I've always given in to the feeling of obligation or some other principle that is completley unrelated to how I am really feeling."

When you do that dear - you're not in control of your own life - others are. Additionally, it leaves you completely disconnected and out of touch with your own self. Live for YOU, not anyone else.

"This time I decided to be true to myself but am suffering from the backlash. I'm hoping things will settle down soon, and people would just relax!"

I don't mean to offend dear, but seriously, you need to confront your own family about the topic of boundaries - and respecting YOURS. You also need to tell them how you've been living your life out of duty and obligation...and you need to describe to them how that makes you feel. You need to tell them what the end result of that is - and that in the end, you end up feeling like shit about yourself because you're doing what everyone else wants you to do, and not being true to yourself...and it's leaving you off balance. Be brutally honest with them about how this affects you, and then set boundaries. Explain that they need to back off your personal life and respect your boundaries if they want YOU to respect THEM.

There is absolutely no reason in the world that your family should pit themselves against you over some damn guy - that's absurd - and I'm sorry you're going through this right now simply to have your own voice. No one should have to go through judgment and scorn from their own family simply to be heard and understood.

"Right now I feel like I'm just one of those back burner pots."

If that's the case, there is no reason on earth to settle with him. You need a man that makes you feel special and loved and desired...not one who makes you feel taken for granted.

Stay true to yourself dear. It's not an easy road, I won't lie. But if you forge ahead, set boundaries with those around you, and begin to stay true to yourself and connecting with your inner feelings...in time dear, you will find that your self-esteem will increase, your confidence will increase, and you'll feel much better about yourself and much more at ease with the decisions you make for yourself :-)

It's okay to be angry with people dear - and to let them see that in your actions. There's no law that says if you're angry or hurt, you need to see the person anyway. Don't worry about letting him or others down...worry about letting YOURSELF down - because YOU are important.

Anonymous said...

Kind of have a similar story to Infrequent Flyers'.
This pertains to a guy I met during orientation for a new job. We work in different states but all new employees fly to his location for training. When I met him 9 months ago, he’d sit next to me every day and we’d talk and flirt and I was constantly giving him green lights to try meet up outside of work. I brought up the idea of exchanging numbers and we’d text a bit, but he’d never take the lead on planning something. I ultimately felt like I was the guy and was chasing him, so I just chalked it up as a failed attempt and left it alone and figured I’d never see him again unless I happened to fly back out there for work.

Fast forward to yesterday, I’m at my desk and happen to see him walk past. Confused, I look him up and see that his calendar says he’s visiting my office for the next 3 days. I get in a mild huff that he came to our office and didn’t even tell me that he would be flying in, but then I checked my IM history and I’d missed a ping from him that morning saying he was here in town, and he apologized saying that his phone was dead.

I message him back saying it’s good to see that he’s here and I’d come over to say hi. We make small talk and hit our same rhythm as before, but of course we’re at work so we keep it somewhat playful yet professional. He gets around to asking how far from the office do I live and then jokes and says we should throw a party at my place. I told him that since he gave me no advance notice that he was coming, that wouldn’t be possible, but he could throw something at his hotel (all in jest of course). Then he says we should just all go downtown and bar hop.

He knows that’s not my typical scene so I throw out the idea of grabbing dinner instead. But he’s more of the partier type, even though he’s in his 30s, so I keep it noncommittal. He says we should coordinate on this later so I noncommittally give an okay sure just to see if he’ll actually follow through. And for good measure, I even send him a ping letting him know I’m leaving for the day but to text/call later if he wanted to go out.

I go home and of course never get a text from him. But instead of staying at home, I decide to accept the invite from my other coworkers to go downtown and we have a fantastic time. I do so happen to have his #, but I purposely decided not to text him because I feel like he purposefully gave me no advance notice, came to my city and then expected that I’d roll out the red carpet for him just because he showed up.

Anonymous said...

(cont)
I come in to work today and decide not to message him or try to go near the area that he’s in, because I want to see what excuse he’s going to come up with for not texting to coordinate plans last night. 10 minutes after I go upstairs for lunch that day, he saunters in and starts grabbing food and then comes over to my table jokingly saying “Oh so you’re just gonna have lunch without me?” Then he asks me if we ended up going out last night and I smile and say yes we did and it was so much fun. He gives me this WTF look asking why I didn’t let him know and I told him he never texted me so I assumed he had other plans. Then he LIES and says he did text me but then switches mid sentence and says he ended up staying late at the office and then just decided to have drinks at a place next to his hotel and call it a night (basically did nothing lol).

Before leaving for the day I go over to sit with him for a few minutes and he’s talking about how he wants to go downtown tonight and this and that, never asking me to join him, but I can tell he’s peppering me with all these details to see if I’ll bite and invite myself. He asks me what I’m doing this weekend and I tell him things are up in the air. We’re both on our computers working and he’s constantly making ploys to get my attention because I’m not really giving him the attention he wants. After a few more minutes of him babbling, it’s the end of the work day so I shut my computer to leave for the day. He jumps up to give me a hug goodbye and I say maybe we’ll see each other soon if we ever happen to be in the same city. And then I hopped in my car and went right on home lol.

When I first met him months ago, I’d not yet seen this blog and was doing everything wrong and trying everything imaginable to let him know I’d be interested in meeting up outside of work, which I now know can be read as desperate. But this time around was so much different. I was able to suss him out on a few things - think he must of deleted my number and didn’t want to say it so rather than asking for it, he wanted to get me to text him first so that he could play as if he still had my #. He also seems like one of those men that I’d pretty much have to present myself to him with a bow and then he’d decide if he’d like to follow through. The way he approached this whole visit seemed arrogant in my opinion and was a real turnoff since he’s pretty much playing the feminine roll - all of the appeal just disappeared lol..

So I guess tonight he can venture downtown on his own tonight and see how that turns out, meanwhile I’ll make plans with one of my gfs. He leaves tomorrow morning and that will be that. Even though we are in different offices, we are coworkers so there are some other factors at play here. But even given that, if he’s too prideful to ask for my number and organize a dinner or outing with me, then he can have a night on his own as far as I’m concerned. I can’t be bothered to stroke his ego on a moment’s notice just because he decided to show up. Thanks, Mirror!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 27, 8:33 PM,
"He also seems like one of those men that I’d pretty much have to present myself to him with a bow and then he’d decide if he’d like to follow through."

I agree.

"The way he approached this whole visit seemed arrogant in my opinion and was a real turnoff since he’s pretty much playing the feminine roll - all of the appeal just disappeared"

I agree with this as well..."feminine submissive" doesn't look good on a man at all. When women think of the definition of their ideal man, that usually includes leadership (masculine) qualities. And as you can see, men that take the feminine role...that crap only works on insecure women with low self esteem. They're the ones who "bite" on that stuff. Independent women, such as your "new" self, do NOT find themselves attracted to that passive behavior in men.

Strong women want strong men. They want an equal to themselves, not some guy that's kinda' spineless.

"if he’s too prideful to ask for my number and organize a dinner or outing with me, then he can have a night on his own as far as I’m concerned. I can’t be bothered to stroke his ego on a moment’s notice just because he decided to show up."

Perfect dear. Whether he admits it or not, he'll respect you for this...and he'll be thinking about you too. You'll now be dancing around in his thoughts and he'll be trying to figure out why you didn't fall for the usual ploy and he'll be thinking about how "different" you are from other women. Let that marinate in his brain for a while LOL ;-)

And enjoy how confident and good you feel by deciding not to let a man call the shots in your life or manipulate you emotionally into doing his bidding for him - in the end you may not get the guy (and you realize he may not have been the man for you anyway, because he's acting more like a woman than a man) - but at least the guy didn't run you over, leave you for dead, and require you to take the next 4 weeks getting yourself back together after an emotionally devastating experience :-)

Anonymous said...

"I don't blame you dear. Personally, I'd feel insulted that he went about this in the way he did - avoiding me - yet inviting me through my own damn family."

Well, I was bothered by a few things:

He didn't contact me directly; he took the cowardly way out and set it up through my family. I don't like timid guys, and I'm not attracted to them no matter how good-looking they are. This guy seems to be a go-getter in the business world, but his timidness and wanting to reduce HIS "risk" comes across as weak and not very masculine and doesn't help me feel attracted to him. I don't know if it's the cavewoman in me, but I want my man to have some guts! You know, just in case - I don't want him running away like a little girl waving his hands in the up air when the first danger strikes. And when I picture him and I in a precarious situation, I see him ditching me so I guess that isn't a good sign :( I want to be confident that the guy I'm with will be there to protect me whether or not that applies to modern day culture, it doesn't matter - it's still somehow important to me.

Then, I feel like the lunch invite was LAME because after all this time had past, it wasn't even "prime-time." It was also an activity with my family and wasn't one on one. To me, it indicated that his interest level was low. What about a Friday night dinner? Maybe he wanted to save that for something or someone else, who the heck knows. Either way, it didn't come across as a substantial investment on his part to warrant my going out of my way to see him even if he did make it to my town afterall. I mean, come on, this has been going on for the past ten or eleven years! And honestly, I have been bored to death on these "hangouts" that he arranges with my family. Sure, it may be easy and convenient for him because he doesn't have to risk much in these hang-out sessions. If he was really interested though, I feel like he would have been bolder, planned a date, just the two of us for Friday or Saturday night. Yet neither of those things happened. So I'm not feeling it for him either which is why I feel like I'm on the back burner (from which I just removed myself Ms. Mirror, and if he's unhappy with that, he's gonna have to step it up!)

I don't like dealing with scared little boys, they're just not attractive to me even though I know he's a grown man, I feel like I'm dealing with one of those "man-boys" you often refer to. It's the lack of guts and interest he is displaying that is the real turn-off for me here, and whether he has the guts to put himself out there and/or risk being hurt (whether emotionally or physically) that would make me respect him and feel more attracted to him. But since he's not doing any of that right now, he's off my list of potential guys for now, and I honestly don't see things changing in the future so he's probably crossed-off my list for good. I didn't enjoy being checked-in on from time to time in the back-burner section of his stove and am not sticking around for more.

"Take 20 minutes to be alone and just think." Thank you Ms. Mirror, this was an extremely valuable exercise. I would like to apply this to other areas of my life.

"Stay true to yourself dear. It's not an easy road." I think in the past I avoided staying true to myself for precisely this reason. It was easier to do as I was told and not have to suffer from the backlash. Even if that meant sacrificing my own needs and wants, at least I didn't have to deal with all the drama and anger.

Anonymous said...

"there is no reason on earth to settle with him. You need a man that makes you feel special and loved and desired...not one who makes you feel taken for granted."

Do you think my expecations are just unreasonable? Sometimes I worry that no guy will ever fit my criteria, and I feel as though I WILL have to settle someday.

Because of this, I am alone right now. And though I know these things are important to me, I don't know if they are practical. I don't like compromising on things that are important to me, however. I feel like these are the basics, but sadly, it seems very few guys can even manage that.

"Don't worry about letting him or others down...worry about letting YOURSELF down" thank you, I need to repeat this to myself over and over again.

As for my family giving me hell, it's really my mother that is the one that is raging over my not attending the lunch. I'm guessing my dad may have been disappointed a little but maybe not as much. I wrote him an e-mail last night saying that I'm sorry I couldn't make it to the lunch (trying to explain things to my mother is useless because she will not even try to listen) and that all this drama surrounding this guy, namely my mother's extreme behavior, makes it very uncomfortable for me (btw thank you for your suggestions Ms. Mirror, I explained it exactly like you suggested) and perhaps another time, and I hope he understands. Hopefully, my dad will take that OK as he is more level-headed than my mother. But she has really made things awkward for me all these years, and she hasn't a clue. I believe she is a narcissist and possibly also borderline personality disorder (for sure there is some undiagnosed mental disorder there) so she is incapable of any empathy or putting herself in other people's shoes. She can only see things from her perspective, and it never matters what I want or how I'm feeling. This is the way it's been my entire life. Her raging over every little thing I do or don't do actually isn't anything new. She basically likes the guy, sees $$ signs and wants me to throw myself at him so that she can then vicariously live through me. That is sadly what this whole thing boils down to. It isn't about wanting the best for me, it's ALWAYS all about her and what she wants. So all my life, I've felt like the puppet and am now all the more reluctant to place myself in a situation where she will realize her own "fantasies" yet again, whatever they may be. It truly is an unhealthy family dynamic at play here. I recognize that, and I thank you Ms. Mirror for pointing that out and for being in my corner. Often my dad will side with my mother just to shut her up. So I needed that support because I was being made to feel like a villain.

It makes me sad to know that my own mother is incapable of genuinely caring for me, while you, someone I haven't even met in person and only know through this blog, have my best interest in mind and advise me better than my own mother can. I am trulygrateful for your support and hope that you know how much I appreciate all of your advice. You are the reason I have been able to maintain my sanity through everything for the past six months. So THANK YOU. I hope you know what a tremendous, positive impact you have on women all over the globe.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you do.

Yours,
Infrequent Flyer


P.S. My dad sided with my mom! He completely ignored what I wrote him and said that I need to be less self-centered, then people will respond in kind. All my life, he's sided with her no matter how ridiculous she is. Sigh. I will not let this get me down though. I'm afraid he's been with my mom too long.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Infrequent Flyer,
"My dad sided with my mom! He completely ignored what I wrote him and said that I need to be less self-centered, then people will respond in kind."

I've seen this dynamic before dear. Your father is submissive while your mother is masculine and dominant. And it appears your father has learned to submit to your mother's will as part of his survival mechanism. Otherwise, he'd have to suffer the wraith in his own home and it could go on for weeks, even months.

But besides that, I really am surprised at how involved they are in your personal life. I'm surprised that they feel they have some sort of say-so in it.

Truth be told dear, my parents have no clue what goes on in my personal life, nor do they pry to find out, let alone offer unwanted opinions on it. I believe it's very unhealthy when those boundaries are crossed. Imagine if you put a bug in your dad's ear about your mom. Imagine if you gave your father your opinion on his relationship with your mother - think your mother would like that? It's incredibly invasive and in the end, it boils down to scrutiny. But it's no different than your mother giving her your opinion on your personal life, it's the same thing and quite frankly, by behaving the way she does, she risks opening herself up to scrutiny from others.

If I were you dear, I would not engage them in these conversation any further. Meaning, when this comes up, you either tell them flat out "I'm not talking about this with you" or you leave. Don't fight or engage them in battle or discussion over it, remove yourself entirely from the situation or simply nicely keep repeating, "I'm not talking about this with you" and stand firm on that.

Your mother shouldn't be "raging" over anything, particularly something so trivial as a dating situation of her daughters and it sounds to me like control is an issue as well. I know you love your mother, and you're not going to be able to change her I realize that. But what you CAN do...is begin to subtly draw the line and set healthy boundaries and start signaling that your personal life is an area that is no longer open to public discussion or unwanted outside opinions. You did the right thing by explaining yourself to your father, so don't regret that. The regret shouldn't be yours for trying, it should be theirs for not truly listening.

I get that everyone wants what's best for their children but families that are too close for comfort like that...I've only ever seen turmoil as the end result of too many opinions. My ex's home is similar. His mother, a Scorpio, rules the roost with an iron fist and she insists that her oldest son, daughter in law, and ten year old grandson live with them.

And you know what? They HAVE - for 18 friggin' years! They are so far up each others butts down there it's not even funny and the turmoil and arguments that result (in front of that poor child, their grandson) are so damaging...yet they all still cling in a very dysfunctional co-dependent arrangement. They don't seem to realize that if they'd put some space between them, live in separate homes, and not be involved so closely in one another's lives....they'd all have a much, much better relationship with one another through those simple boundaries.

When I read research about happiness dear....you know what the number one critical item is that's always referenced that's the difference between what those are happy and those that are unhappy is? The people who feel happy have boundaries and stick to them. Those that are unhappy do not.

Here's a video that touches on that very subject and I think this will really resonate with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu2TiKS2i1U

Tiff720 said...

MOA-
Been dating this guy now for 3 months. Things have been wonderful. We have been inseparable since we've met. During our first couple of weeks of dating, one Friday night we met at a bar. Had a few drinks, but this time the drinks were a little too much and hit. We live 30 mins apart.

Although I was apprehensive because I didn't know him, but I told him that I had too much to drink and I am unable to drive home. I had decided to get a room at the hotel across from the bar, but he let me stay at his place. He was a complete gentleman. He slept in his livingroom and I slept in his bed. Though I didn't want to sleep in his bed, but he gave me some clothes to wear and closed the door. The next morning I woke up. We went to breakfast and departed, but talked almost all of the day until we met up again. Then we didn't see each other for a couple of days.

During one of our conversations, he had mentioned that his car needed to be serviced and if I could pick him up from the place and we get some breakfast. During the first couple of weeks of dating, I was not working so I had alot of time to spear. So I took the offer to go pick him up and have breakfast with him. The breakfast led to us having a walk in the park, and a very very long talk in my car. We both talked about past relationships, mistakes made/learned...then while talking he had asked me "when is a good time to profess or proclaim". I kindof had a hunch of what he was referring to, so I decided to change the discussion to something else. The hunch that I had was that he was fallen for me and that he wanted to let me know.

Then the next month we're hanging around his place and we were talking as usual. We seem to have alot of things in common, share similar values and beliefs and some experiences. Next thing I know he tells me that he has fallen in love with me. I was a little shock but my heart had been feeling the same from the prior month, but I didn't let him know. Though I was trying to hold back my feelings. A few weeks later, i love you came out of my mouth and I meant it. I haven't been in love or loved a man in so many years. With him its genuine. He is transparent and very considerate. I enjoy that alot. All because it's similar to me.

Now fast forward to today.... this morning I woke up with a little doubt about myself and the relationship. There have been times in our conversations that he mentioned that he likes to be challenged! Its amazing how things go good and doubt sets in. I am starting to feel that I am not challenging him. I started a new job now so our time is very limited until the weekend because our shifts are different. I work in the morning and he works afternoons.

Tiff720 said...

Con't....

Now fast forward to today.... this morning I woke up with a little doubt about myself and the relationship. There have been times in our conversations that he mentioned that he likes to be challenged! Its amazing how things go good and doubt sets in. I am starting to feel that I am not challenging him. I started a new job now so our time is very limited until the weekend because our shifts are different. I work in the morning and he works afternoons. However, we both stay over at each other's place every other week.

He's always talking about the future. We have looked at a few homes and we both want to have kids. We're both childless and we would like to start a family together. I have alot of clothes at his place, my own toothbrush and soap and feminine products and Vice versa.

I attend church every sunday and I told him that I would prefer to be married before having a child, but since we have been intimate we have been discussing about having a child together and how much great it will be. We have even made Preconception doctors appointments. It dawned on me this morning that I am overstepping my boundaries. Though I would love to have his child, but I want a marriage first then family.

I know everyone's relationship is different. Why am I having these self-doubts? What should I do? What do you think about my situation? How should I challenge him? Should I communicate to him my fear of him loosing interest all because I am not challenging him?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"Should I communicate to him my fear of him loosing interest all because I am not challenging him?"

No, do not display insecurity with him - he's seeking a challenge and that's the exact opposite, so squash those fears and don't give them any weight or voice them.

"Why am I having these self-doubts?"

In this case, I believe it's your gut dear - and you should probably listen. You're about to have a child with a man that hasn't made a formal commitment to you. He hasn't agreed to spend the rest of his life with you, but he's agreed to have a child with you - that doesn't make any sense, ya' know? If he's not agreed to spend the rest of his life with you (marry you), then how do you know he'll stick around to raise this child with you for a lifetime?

I think that's what's sounding off alarm bells in your head.

"How should I challenge him?"

Don't be so accommodating to him. Don't be so "willing" all the time. Provide some resistance from time to time. And don't be available all the time. When men can start to predict your behavior, they have a tendency to sometimes get bored. When they start thinking, "Oh, I don't have to check with her. She's home. She's always home, waiting for me to either call or stop by." Or, "I'll call her later. I know she's not going anywhere, she answers the phone on the second ring every single time I call. There's no rush, she'll be there."

That behavior is "predictable" to men - and yea - unfortunately, sometimes they bore of it. A challenge to them is a "mystery" of sorts - "unpredictability." For instance, they call, expect you to pick up on the second ring, you don't - and you're not answering for hours after that. Ding, ding, ding - now you've got his attention, he's 100% focused on you, heart racing, anxiety increasing, adrenaline pumping...wondering where you are. And while women really despise feeling that way, there are many men who consider that a "rush" of sorts. They'll complain about it at the time, but secretly, they enjoy a little bit of "push back" from time to time from a woman...it keeps them on their toes (keeps them from taking her for granted).

Anonymous said...

Hey Mirror-

It's Virgo Pal again-

I need some advice or more like reassurance. I met this guy on a dating site a few weeks ago. We exchanged numbers, and he wanted to find time to go out on a date. He initially proposed that I go to his city for us to meet up. I declined and instead proposed we do dinner where I live ( I learned that from you, Mirror!!!). :) I told him to go think of some ideas for us to go for dinner and get back to me. We had our first date this past Saturday at a nice Italian restaurant, and it actually went well. He showed up on time, dressed to impress, paid for everything, and I then went home. He texted me afterwards and said he had a good time and that he will call me the next day.


Well he did call the next day, but I was having dinner with my sister so I didn't answer the phone right away. :). I called him back later that evening when I was settled at home. My friend said I should have told him I was at dinner so he wouldn't think I was playing games. I didn't see it that way. We barely know each other, and I don't think I need to justify my activities with a stranger. I did text him the next morning to say that I called him and I hope we connect soon to throw the ball back into his court, sort of speak. I look back now and I think even that was overkill since he knew I called him but obviously he didn't feel the need to immediately call me back either. He actually called right after I sent him the message and confirmed that he was sleeping and he just didn't have the time to call back. He then asked ME when I was going to call him back which I thought was weird since he called me.
I told him maybe that evening after I returned from a concert.

I didn't get home until nearly midnight last night, so I decided that I wasn't making a late night communication outreach because then I will start to feeling like the pursuer or checking in with someone who I barely know. Now I think the pressure is on me to make the next move, but I have to find a way to turn the tables so I'm being chased and pursued. My friend think I'm sabotaging things, but I disagree. I'm an old fashion girl, so this new dating mantra doesn't fit with my personal philosophy of courting.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Virgo Pal,
"My friend said I should have told him I was at dinner so he wouldn't think I was playing games. I didn't see it that way. We barely know each other, and I don't think I need to justify my activities with a stranger"

Exactly. He's a complete and total stranger at this point and you do NOT have to explain yourself to him. If someone is going to snap out because you took a few hours to respond to a text...you don't want to be with that person anyway.

"My friend think I'm sabotaging things, but I disagree"

Your friend's most likely a "people pleaser" dear. And the only thing you may be sabotaging is a guy's attempts (one who's already signaling he's a bit insecure) to place you into the powerless position here - by forcing you to chase. He's already signaling that by "He initially proposed that I go to his city for us to meet up" and now "He then asked ME when I was going to call him back which I thought was weird since he called me."

He doesn't want to lead - he's attempting to get YOU to do all the work here and be the one to pursue HIM, to make it easy on himself. And I don't really have to tell you - those types of men do not really know how to make women happy. He'll go out of his way on the first few dates, but he'll be constantly attempting to steer the relationship under his power, making you come to him - which will eventually leave you feeling unfulfilled and satisfied.

I'd try something here. I'd ring him at a time when I know he's not available. So that technically, you called. But HE would be the one to have to call back. He'd have to man up here. And then after that, I would not text or call again. And if he signaled he wants you to lead again by saying, "So when are you going to call me again?" I'd hit him with, "Am I not the one who should probably be asking you, the man, that LOL? I'm not used to men asking me to pursue them." And then I'd sit - in silence - and observe his response.

And if he tells you, "Times have changed, blah, blah, blah." I'd say, "Yea, they sure have. There's no such thing as romance anymore I guess, huh?" I'd give it right back. When these guys start to act like this and start to signal that they expect you to lead and pursue like this - I think it's fair game to state your dislike of such, and to signal to them that they're failing as a man.

I wouldn't do this to a man behaving as a gentleman, because there's no need. Yea, he was nice. Yea, he was a gentlemen on the FIRST date. But the second date hasn't even happened yet - and this guy's already signaling he's ready to enter into a power struggle here with you. Umm, yea...no thanks.

I believe it's better to nip these things in the bud early dear...before you spend months of wasted time, only to reach the ultimate conclusion in the end anyway, that he isn't right for you and probably cannot fulfill your needs as a woman. Because the bottom line is...he's attempting to push you into a powerless position here, while placing himself at the top, in the powerful one...and that's a red flag to me of a man that will spin this by the 3rd date to a situation of YOU pursuing HIM - which will ultimately leave you disappointed in him.

Sleepless In NY said...

MOA-

I am hoping you can provide some perspective on my about 4-months relationship. We're exclusive and have regular sex (although I am not sure if that's the same as being in a relationship...you never know these days since people attach different meanings to these things). We've only had a talk about being exclusive with each other but nothing serious about long-term expectations, how things are progressing, etc. We see each other at least once a week, been over to his house several times (slept over) and he's also been to my place and slept over. He plans all our dates, seeks input from me, etc. A far cry from the disappearing/reappearing guy I was dealing with a while back whose conduct initially led me to your site. I followed your advice and I eventually broke free from that guy- good riddance and he still blows up my phone. When I least expected it, this new guy (who doesn't play games and is very communicative) came into my life. We met on an amtrak train... talk about random!

Anyways so the issue that has brought me here is: I invited him to a work event and he declined with the reason that it seemed too "high stakes" for it to be our first couple outing- i.e. involving meeting people (including some higher-ups) from work. He told me not to read anything into it and said we could discuss later (he was about to catch a flight). Well I can't help but run it through my mind....was it too early to invite him to something like that? I haven't met his parents or any of his friends and he hasn't met my parents or friends either. He hinted in the past about me meeting his sister (it was a passing remark so nothing really concrete) but I did mention my hesitation since I have a little bit of social anxiety about meeting family members of any significant other. Should I be reading anything into his refusal to be my plus one? My girlfriends are driving me insane with their various theories lol.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 16, 3:40 PM,
"We're exclusive and have regular sex (although I am not sure if that's the same as being in a relationship...you never know these days since people attach different meanings to these things)"

You're only exclusive dear - if he has asked you for a commitment. If that hasn't happened, don't assume that regular sex = relationship. For many men, regular sex is simply that - regular sex. And they could be having it with more than one woman, so never assume.

"We've only had a talk about being exclusive with each other"

If, during that talk, he committed himself to you, then yea, you're exclusive. But if you just talked about it and no commitments were made, you can't assume that's the case with these guys nowadays LOL.

"A far cry from the disappearing/reappearing guy I was dealing with a while back..I followed your advice and I eventually broke free from that guy- good riddance and he still blows up my phone."

Funny how one minute they run from you...but the minute YOU run from THEM - they give chase LOL.

"I invited him to a work event and he declined with the reason that it seemed too "high stakes" for it to be our first couple outing"

I'm going to say that this guy is taking things slow. If he's not raising red flags elsewhere and this is the only one, that's probably the case. However, if he's raising other red flags in conjunction with this, then he may not be fully committed at this point - or as invested (emotionally) as you just yet.

When these things happen dear, you maintain the pace and balance by pulling back a bit. You stay calm, don't start to pursue or become insecure, and you ride this out with dignity and grace. BUT - in the meantime, you do your own thing as well. You place a bit of distance between the two of you. If you feel he's pulling back on that rubber band around both of your waists...and you want him to spring towards you...then you pull back and you place tension on that rubber band as well.

Once he notices that you've done this, if he's genuinely interested, he'll spring towards you. You won't have to say a word, do anything, plead, cry, etc. When they pull back or place some distance, you don't try harder - you do the same thing. You mirror their behavior and you place tension on that rubber band - and you hold it there, until his end snaps and he comes racing towards you LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
So I have a question that maybe you can help with. There is a guy I have know for the last year. Last summer we dated for about 3.5 months. He was pursuing and asking me to hang out and also kept in touch via text everyday. At one point we decided to call it quits because we were both too "busy".

We reconnected in February and were texting everyday for another 3 months, however, this 2nd time around, he kept saying he didn't want a relationship, which I was fine with for a while, but then "ended" the texting game with him when I decided I wanted to actually focus my time on someone who was looking for a relationship.

We went another 2 months where we didn't speak to each other. I ran into him last week at the gym and he texted me after. I told him I would be interested in catching up over a drink sometime and he agreed, but has yet to make plans with me, but he is initiating texts to me everyday. I don't want a penpal and I have enough friends. How do I get him to basically stop "e-maintaining" me and ask me out again? I want him to pursue. I told him that when he was free and wanted to catch up, he had my number to figure the plans out. I don't want to just ignore him because I don't want him to think I'm not interested. I do genuinely like him and we always have a great time together. I just don't understand why he wants to text me everyday (him doing all the initiating) but won't ask me out? I feel like I need some sort of game plan. I'd appreciate your help and advice.

Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 18, 12:29 AM,
"How do I get him to basically stop "e-maintaining" me and ask me out again?"

You don't dear. You can't control someone or their behavior. All you can do is accept that this isn't working for you - and walk away from it.

"I want him to pursue."

Why? He's already informed you that he's not seeking a relationship. And you've already decided that you are seeking one...so where does he fit into that equation? Why wish for a man that doesn't want a relationship to pursue you? Why wish for a man that you've already tried twice previously with and it failed...to again waste your time a 3rd time around? It's a waste of time dear. I wouldn't wish for that, I'd spend my time and focus elsewhere on men who want the same things I want instead.

"I don't want him to think I'm not interested"

But you're NOT interested in a man that doesn't want a relationship - so why do you want to give him a different impression than that?

"I just don't understand why he wants to text me everyday (him doing all the initiating) but won't ask me out?"

He's already told you why - it's because he doesn't want a relationship:

"in February and were texting everyday for another 3 months...he kept saying he didn't want a relationship...then "ended" the texting game with him"

The last time you two spoke, he did the SAME EXACT THING he's doing now. It didn't make you happy then, it's not making you happy now...so why wish for even more of it, ya' know?

"I feel like I need some sort of game plan"

I'm confused...game plan for what? There is no game plan that magically makes a man that doesn't want a relationship suddenly want one dear. The only thing you can do is accept the reality. Accept that this man doesn't want what you want and that because of that, this isn't a match. And because it isn't a match, it's not worth wasting anymore time on. That's really all you can do dear. You can't control others, you can't make them love you, you can't make them want a relationship...all you can do is accept the truth and then move on accordingly, ya' know?



Anonymous said...

Hi Ms. Mirror,

Thank you so much for your advice and for the link to the youtube video on boundaries. I found it very useful to think of personal boundaries like fences on a property. Ever since I watched it, I've been trying to remember this concept and put it to use. My mother is clearly incapable of respecting other's boundaries, especially mine. Because of her overbearing ways, my brother does not even speak to her anymore and has been incommunicado.

My parents used to have terrible fights while I was growing up, but more recently my dad has simply gone along with everything my mother demands, and I thought he'd lost his backbone and was super annoyed with him whenever he sided with my mother, but as you pointed out, I see that it could just be his way to survive under these circumstances. My mother does not lift a finger for anyone. Not only does she make suggestions for who I should date in a not so subtle way, she also demands that others do work for her and relies on everyone around her to do what she ought to be doing herself. Because this is the environment I grew up in, I am a do, do, doer and am trying to undo the doer in me so I could be happier in my personal and dating life. Honestly, I feel as though up until now, I have been living my life for my mother because I have been trying to please her with all of the demands she has been making without realizing that she was being completely selfish and unreasonable. She has never really given me a chance to live my life for myself, but undoing the ways you grew up with isn't easy. However, I am determined to change my situation, starting with setting my own personal boundaries. Furthermore, my dad and I are both exhausted and overwhelmed with my mother's continual demands to help her with this and that, and while I cannot change the circumstances for my dad, I can at least change my own situation and leave when my mother starts raging.

I think when a woman is too dominant and has too many masculine qualities like my own mother and your ex-mother-in-law, it is not good for the family dynamic and negatively affects everyone in the family. In my mother's case, it stems from an overwhelming need to control (I know that she is in fact extremely insecure, hence her need to control others.) Strangely, she's typically not as abusive and nicer to me when I am physically far away from her. And she brings on the charm and tries to make me come back to her so that she can continue to have control over me. She also rages when I leave her (she is not upset about the fact that I left, just upset that she can't control anymore.)

"The people who feel happy have boundaries and stick to them. Those that are unhappy do not." Thank you Ms. Mirror, I will keep this in mind!

Yours,
Infrequent Flyer

VirgoPal said...

Mirror-

It's Virgo Pal again!!! I went on a second date with that guy I met online a few weeks ago. There are a few things that concerned me, but I will be brief with this one. I need another pair of eyes on this situation because my intuition is telling me something is not right!

1. We were talking about his upcoming plans this week, and he said he was going to Washington D.C this Friday. During our time at the park he received a text message around 930 ish. He didn't look at it and we just kept going with our conversation. Well during the drive home he received a phone call from a woman who's name popped up on his GPS screen. He tried to hang up the phone on her, but he decided to take it instead to "see what she wanted." I heard the girl ask him if he received the text message she sent earlier, but he said no he didn't get chance to look at it. He then rushed her off of the phone and hung up. Later while he was in my driveway he said he just wanted to peak at the message she sent. The message said " can you take me to Washington D.C on Wednesday?" He said he has no clue how she "knew" he was going to D.C. The tone of the message was more like someone that was extremely comfortable asking a significant other to drive them 8 hours to another city. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but that is too much of a coincidence to ignore.

2. During our drive back to the city he told me he had a great time with me and it was nice to have an intelligent conversation with someone. Later, he kept saying that it was up to me if I wanted to go out with him again, but he is on the fence about me. It was almost like he expecting that I didn't want to see him again and he wanted me to make a move to show my interest.I was thinking WTF? I know I'm a great woman, and you either want me or you don't. He keeps telling me he's shy, but he has no problem calling, texting, holding hands with me and even kissed me multiple times and then tried to escalate things physically while in his car. His actions are definitely not matching his words. I feel I've shown my interest by saying yes to two dates, but obviously I think he think sex will do it. I'm starting to get a sense that he is insecure and is waiting for me to throw myself at him. I wanted to treated like a great woman, and I'm not sure if he had the capacity to do it for me.

3. He lied about his age of the dating site. He didn't come out and say it, but I did the math and I realized he is actually 3 years older than he initially posted on the site.

Either this guy is a skillful player, or I'm just jaded woman. I learned my lesson to walk away before getting hurt, and but my intuition is telling me this is not the right guy for me.

Anonymous said...

I've been in a relationship with a guy for 4 months and we see each other every day. Yesterday we had a disagreement. I told him I felt like he only does things for me when it’s convenient; specifically, when the act of service does not require a sacrifice, or when his interests are in sync with my needs. He avoided the conversation by saying he didn't want to talk about it; I was upset but I didn't pressure him. This morning I pretended like nothing was wrong and tried to talk to him as I normally would – I even invited him to dinner. He said ok, then called an hour later to decline the offer. I asked why; he said he didn't want to talk about. I said, “You own a business, what would happen if you refused to address issues with your customers when they arose?” He said, “I imagine it wouldn't be a good situation.” I said, “Exactly, you would lose your business. I don’t think relationships are very different…If you want to make your relationship work, then you have to address issues as they arise; otherwise, the issues simply re-invent themselves as something else –but ultimately you lose your relationship. So what’s wrong? Talk to me.” He said, “I don’t feel like talking. I’m hanging up now.” And he did just that… In my mind, he just told me he understood the potential consequences of not communicating, but he did it anyway. That to me, was an indication that he is not concerned about losing me. Mirror, I can’t deal with stonewalling, but I I’m falling in love with him. My mind is telling to run fast as hell, but my heart is holding me back. Am I overreacting? Is it that deep? Is this a red flag? What should I do next? Please help! :-(

Yours Truly,
Confused New Yorker

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Virgo Pal,
"my intuition is telling me this is not the right guy for me."

I agree dear. If your gut is rumbling, it's time to pull back.

The girl in DC could be an ex or some girl he casually dates, and yea, I do believe he's insecure and trying to emotionally manipulate you into "do, do, doing" for him in some way to show interest (even though just being on the date with him is enough to show your interest).

But here's the "all bets are off" item:

"he is actually 3 years older than he initially posted on the site."

When men lie on those dating site profiles - they're not taking dating there seriously - they're treating it like a game or a sport. Because if they were truly serious about meeting a woman there for a long term commitment or relationship....they wouldn't be lying. Because how do you explain yourself then and expect the woman to trust you enough to continue forward into a relationship with you? You don't, because your not expecting a relationship, everyone knows you can't expect a relationship with someone who's lying from day one - instead, you "lie to get by" - to meet women, sleep around and date many of them. You can't take that, or him, seriously. I don't think he's there for a relationship. It's starting to look more like he's "a skillful player" that's using the "lie to get by" technique - lying to get laid and meet women, but has no intention of settling down with one :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused New Yorker,
"Am I overreacting? Is it that deep? Is this a red flag?"

Yep - it's a big red flag. He's "checking out" on you emotionally and shutting down. That signals that he's more than likely, emotionally unavailable for a real relationship and he cannot, and is not, willing to do the work necessary to maintain one. Being with a man like for years or a lifetime would leave you absolutely miserable. It's not a situation you should willingly walk into. He's basically signaling to you that you don't matter enough to him for him to do the work. He's signaling to you that when things get rough, he checks out and shuts down emotionally and become emotionally unavailable. Emotionally unavailable individuals do not form healthy relationships with others. He's signaling to you that he's selfish and self-centered and that when things don't go his way - he'll leave. Why would you enter into, or keep moving forward, in a relationship with a man like that, ya' know? Life with him would be absolutely miserable for a woman.

"My mind is telling to run fast as hell, but my heart is holding me back."

You need to make a good decision for yourself. You need to do what's best for yourself. And you need to do that logically (with your mind and intellect) and not emotionally (with your heart). When dating, do NOT throw logic out the window. Ignore the emotions, they will mislead you (love is blind), and instead, use your intellect here to make a wise decision about what's best for YOU - not him :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi, thanks for sharing your thoughts, very interesting.

I was dating this guy for about 3 weeks or so, I think we had about 6-7 dates in total. Understandable not a lot but we seem to have a great time and enjoy each other's company.On our last date we went to Thorpe Park and had a genuinely amazing and fun day. At the end of the day he took me to this chinese restaurant on the river even though he hates chinese food! I thought that was a nice touch. This was Sunday. For the rest of the week we were texting as usual, usually he was the one to text me first in the morning & evening apart from maybe couple of occasions. On Thursday we arranged to meet on Saturday. I text him on Fri evening to check if we were still on for a date tomorrow and he confirmed. Then on Saturday he text me early afternoon saying he is sorry but won't be able to make it as he's not feeling well & can barely speak (he had couple of teeth taken out on Thursday). I was okay with since he did let me know about it, apologised and I get that having your teeth taken out is painful. At about 9pm I sent him a quick text saying 'hey hun, feeling any better? xx' as I was concerned about him. Two minutes later I went on Facebook and saw him tagged in in one of his sisters status with a picture of them being out and drinking. Clearly I wasn't happy about it, not because he was out but because he clearly lied to me. And I think he must have thought I sent my text once I'd seen this status. needless to say I haven't heard from him that night and I didn't text him either.

I decided to call him late morning on Sunday just to clear the air, he didn't pick up. So I sent him a quick message asking him to give me a call when he has a chance. Again, I had no response.

Then on Monday early afternoon I decided to text him since he clearly didn't want to speak to me. I thought I might as well be honest about how I feel & this is what I text him: 'hey so I was hoping I could talk to you rather than text but I get by now you don't really want to talk to me since I haven't heard from you which doesn't leave me with many options. I wanted to thank you for all the wonderful dates we had. I had a great time & I'm glad I've met you. However, I don't think we should see each other again. I feel there really was no need to lie to me and if you didn't want to spend time with me that's fine but tell me rather than lie about how bad you're feeling (and then go out drinking). No need to bullshit me. guess everything else was a lie too. i like you and have more respect for you than to do that to you. and I have higher standards for a relationship (of any kind) than that. It's not cool, such a turn off. I was genuinely concerned about how bad you must have felt. Anyway, I wish you all the best. Take care.' I was quite confused at the time and didn't quite know what was going on and I guess my defences kicked in.

Anyway, as soon as I pressed the send button I got a message from him at the same time. This is what he said: 'Good morning, hey so sorry I've not been in touch, been feeling pretty ropey all wekend. Still not feeling too good. To be honest my head is a little messed up at the moment too. not really sure what I'm doing or what i want and don't think it's fair to leave you not knowing any longer than you have. But I don't think I'm ready to be in any kind of relationship just now. I've really enjoyed being with you but don't feel I can give you 100%. Maybe I can call you after work to talk. x '
To which i just replied: 'just sent you a message on whatsapp. No worries, thanks for letting me know.'

But I still don't get it, to go from interacting and then in just one day to go so cold is a bit confusing. When did having fun become so complicated? And why lie? I really don't get it.

What do you make of it?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 29, 1:13 PM,
"When did having fun become so complicated?"

When it came with the responsibility of having to answer to someone. A lot of men like doing something in the moment they're doing it, many women are the same. But then once they reach the responsibility part of having to think about and answer to someone else - then it's not fun anymore for them. I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm simply stating that someone like that isn't really ready for a real relationship.

Because relationships take lots of work and yea, you do have to think of the other person. So when he decided he wanted to go out without you that night, he didn't want to have to explain or answer to you - he wanted to do what he wants to do - when he wants to do it. And that's someone who, emotionally and maturity wise, simply isn't ready for a serious relationship. And ultimately, he reached that conclusion at the same time you did :-(

"And why lie?"

Because for those that are emotionally immature, it's easier to lie than it is to do the hard work of telling the truth - so they take the cowardly, easy way out instead.

"What do you make of it?"

I think he's a guy that enjoys spending a bit of time casually with someone for a while, but because he's a bit emotionally immature and not really ready for the real work a serious relationship requires - he just kinda' falls off after a while and drifts away - onto the next new adventure. I think he enjoys casually dating, but he doesn't want a serious relationship :-(

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your reply. Some great points here. However, previously he had cancelled on me but has explained why. And I did the same. That's why I find it a bit weird. Came out of nowhere. But I do agree he is a little bit emotionally immature.

I wasn't looking getting into a 'serious' relationship but rather going with the flow & see what happens. If it was to work out then great and if it wasn't that's fine too. I didn't even think that there was a need to 'talk' about it either as it was early days yet. It seems somewhat a shame to have ended the way it did. And I do miss having fun with him if I'm honest.

I really hope both men and women out there start talking about how they feel to each no matter how good/bad it may be to one another rather than use technology methods so there are no misunderstandings.

Have a good day/night!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror - It's Confused New Yorker July 28, 2014 at 9:58 PM.

Thanks for your advice. You're right. I ended the relationship, and I have not called or replied to any correspondence.

"Being with a man like for years or a lifetime would leave you absolutely miserable. It's not a situation you should willingly walk into.... He's signaling to you that when things get rough, he checks out and shuts down emotionally and become emotionally unavailable. Emotionally unavailable individuals do not form healthy relationships with others."

This helped me, tremendously. It forced me to look at his relationships with the people closest to him. That's when I realized that he doesn't really have anyone close to him. We could spend an entire week together, and he would never get a personal phone call. He has 3 children, but his relationship with all of them is very strained. He has no close friends or family members, and he's been divorced twice. He's a very charming man, and I've clearly been blinded by that. Your comment opened my eyes and I'm not going back. I can't thank you enough.




Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror - It's Confused New Yorker again.

So..I've kept my word. I haven't answered any calls, responded to texts, or initiated contact. But here's the thing: He has called me everyday since I told him it was over. He's left voicemails and sent texts saying he misses me and wants to talk, but does not offer any apologies for his behavior. Do you think he is trying to be emotionally available, or just going through the motions because I'm ignoring him? I'm asking because I really did not expect him to react this way...I expected him to call a couple times and let it go.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
Thanks for all your advice so far, it has been really insightful. Just as a little reminder, I wrote here before about a guy that I dated that I met at work and then he moved to a different location and he stopped calling and texting only for me to find out some months later by accident that he went back to an old girlfriend. We still talk now because of work and even more so since my boss resigned and I have taken over her job so it’s almost every day. He used to be very flirtatious and sometimes still is but I usually ignore it and it got me wondering about the girlfriend and if they were still together but you said not to bring it up because he may think I’m a crazy stalker. So I left it, I have since forgiven and moved on, dated other guys but anyway…we have become more friendly since and about two months ago we went out for drinks after work, me him and a friend of his. I really don’t want to have any expectations from this that only leads to disappointment. Now on that same night we were outside of the place we went to deciding if we wanted to stay a while or leave, he was telling us something silly and he put his arm around me for a second then we all turned around and noticed that there was this girl standing outside watching us….so then he turned to his friend and said what is she doing here. So the girl came over and said hi and kissed him on the cheek and asked him I thought you said you were going home and he said well he met me and his friend for drinks…so he introduced me and she very sarcastically looked at me and said “I’m his wife”. Now from that I assumed that that was the old girlfriend. The way the whole situation happened it didn’t seem that they were still in a relationship but that they still talk or are still friends with each other. He didn’t say anything but I could see the discomfort in his face and it got awkward for everyone else as well. She then asked him if he wanted a drink and then asked him for money to go to the bar, he then took out a dollar from his pocket and gave it to her which I thought was very insulting….but anyway she then left to go the bar to wherever and I went to the bathroom and then we left. I never brought it up since and neither did he…this week on Thursday he asked me when are we hanging out again, I just said you tell me….well he didn’t respond and I just left it….am I being too naïve here with my assumptions??….please your thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused New Yorker,
"He's left voicemails and sent texts saying he misses me and wants to talk, but does not offer any apologies for his behavior."

If he's offering to "talk" then you can feel him out on that. You can state that you can make some time to talk, but you won't have long to do so (force him to keep it short, sweet and to the point - no time for BS empty promises, only action and important matters).

And then offer to meet him in a public place to do so. Tell him you have a half hour. And when you arrive, you don't respond to or encourage any emotional manipulation from him. If he starts sweet talking you rather than getting to the important matters, apologizing and explaining himself, then you state you are short on time and he needs to get to what you're there for - the "talk." And then you listen. You don't talk or respond until he's spoken and you leave awkward silences if need be so that he understands he needs to talk about what's really important, leave the BS out, and get down to brass tacks.

Once he's done speaking, you thank him for meeting with you and you leave. You tell him you will think about all he's said and you'll be in touch. You don't say when and you don't make a decision right then and there. You just go and see if he's going to really do what he says he'll do, see what he has to say and then give yourself plenty of time to think about things - without any emotional manipulation or BS influencing you - and then make your decision after the fact, not right then and there.

And if you go and it turns out he's only there to sweet talk you, not apologize or really "talk" - then you leave and you don't contact him again, you go into NC once more and you stay there until he gets serious about that "talk" and all that's happened.

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA...

I messed up. Things were going so great for us since we've been dating. We've been dating for a little over 3 months. It has been him and I for the last 3 months. We're inseparable! At the beginning of our dating, he let me know upfront/very transparent about being actively involved in a child's life that is not his biological child. This child came from his ex-girlfriend of 8 years. The child was 6 months old during that time; now he is 13. Hi ex-girlfriend has moved on with her life and married. They never married, but he assumed the role of stepfather during their dating. It has been 4 years since, she's married, but he remains to be in the child’s life. At the beginning when he told me, he left the option of continue dating him or leave it alone. When he told me, I think I said okay that’s fine. I was thinking to myself that this child is not going to impact us nor did I ask further questions, because I thought it was kindof different to still be in a child’s life that is not your biological child and the relationship with the mother ended 4 years ago. I continue to date him and didn't think much of the child since he does not live in the cities that we both reside. Now, presently its 3 ½ months into our relationship and the child (13) wants to spend time with him. So my guy tells me that he wanted to spend time with him and he took off of work to do so. I became jealous, because it was just him and I and now this child wants to be involved. At first, I didn’t have an issue. Then I began to ponder and asked questions daily. We had already agreed to alternate weeks of spending nights at each other’s house because of our work schedules. So last week, he had some competing appointments and I didn’t see him until Saturday. However, when it’s my week, I always made sure to manage my time accordingly…. Last week was very challenging for me to receive it because I felt that my space was being invaded and I hadn’t seen him. My guy assured me that nothing is going on with the child’s mother and he will not let this interfere with the both of us and that I should trust him. Every day I pondered and asked him questions about the situation to delve what is and what was and what has been. In the midst of one of our conversations, he mentioned that if that’s not what I want this will be the end of this relationship. I was taken aback because I love him and we have some many things in common and share common interest. I understand that relationships aren’t going to always be in “la la land”, we both have great communication. Now since this incident has happened. I have asked for his forgiveness, for him to be patient with me and help me understand. I am willing/open to meet the child and hoping to let our relationship develop. However, the reason I am writing this letter to you is because since this has occurred, I feel that he has pulled back a little. He tells me that his hope is still to marry me and start a family with me. Neither one of us have kids and never been married. I want that all from him. I’ll admit this is a mistake on my end that could’ve been handled very differently. How can I get him to back in? What can I do or say? I have apologized repeatedly. Our conversations don’t seem much interesting this week. He’s not looking at me like he used to. I’ve noticed this because I was the one that threw the monkey wrench. Now I’m trying to get it back to what it used to be. Your thoughts, any suggestions, please help?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
You need to give him space and time dear. If you do not, you'll push him further away. Have confidence, don't behave insecurely and simply give him the space he needs right now to support him in this.

The child is not competition for you, so do not let your insecurities take over with regards to that. You agreed to this in the beginning, so it's not fair now to deny him this when he's attempting to stay in a child's life that was pretty much his child for many years, which is admirable and is to be respected.

You're letting your insecurities get the best of you dear, and you see the severe damage that can do. So do your best to be supportive, understanding, patient and confident. Those are all positive qualities. If you become demanding, uncooperative, impatient and insecure, he will pull away as those are all negative qualities.

Give him space and have confidence that he'll return to you :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 10, 4:25 PM,
"am I being too naïve here with my assumptions?"

I'm not sure. If he's never been married, clearly these two have been involved somehow and - it appears she may be a problem for anyone attempting to date him. She appears to be using intimidation tactics to drive other women away from him, and I imagine that wouldn't stop without his intervention.

I would'nt read too much into it at this point, other than the fact that there's a potential "crazy chick" on the scene in his life LOL ;-) But that's HIS problem, not YOURS. So set that aside for now and deal with it again if and/or when it arrives. But be prepared for this woman to confront you again possibly. And if she does, do NOT engage her in verbal or physical sparring. Remain silent, keep a smirky smile on your face (make her sweat a little too when she sees you're somewhat laughing at her instead of being intimidated by her like she's intending you to be) and stay calm. With folks like this, engaging them in battle is what they want - but when you stay calm and silent and laugh it off, they're a bit thrown by that and many times, will eventually feel stupid for their behavior if you pull it off right.

So stay calm, say nothing, keep a half smile on your face (keep her guessing and unable to gauge you or get a feel for you) - and leave lots of silent moments....for her to make an ass of herself in ;-)

Tiff720 said...

This is Tiff720...Thank you MOA. I was thinking to give him space but it's hard when he calls everyday or I'll call him (should I be calling? ) he's wanting to come stay over. He's a man of his word. I really love that about him. How do I give the space? What should I do?

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA.... it's Tiff720 again....So he didn't call me on his lunch break like usual, but he came over after work last night (kept his word from the night before that he was coming over)..Usually when he comes, he kisses me on the lips. This time he kissed me on my forehead. Though I was sleeping, I woke up to chat with him a little which is usually how it goes. This time his responses were very short, one word. I don't understand this 'space' thing. I left a few items at his house. So I plan to go get them (he'll be at work). Should I stay or go back to my place? We're suppose to go out of town this Saturday, should I give him his space until Saturday? Should I call him any time today, tomorrow, thereafter? What about texting him? I did mention to him this morning while I was leaving for him to call me and kissed him on his forehead. I know I messed up. I miss him and I miss us :(

He wants me to meet the child next week. I can't wait to meet him? Do you think after the child and I meet this will bring my guy back?

What kindof tension can I create with him that will bring him back?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"I don't understand this 'space' thing."

Providing someone space means you back off and pull away. You don't contact them, you don't question them, you don't make demands of their time or attention. Instead, you remove the feeling of pressure by doing nothing and letting THEM come to YOU, instead of you hunting them down and contacting them and inviting them out, etc.

"Should I stay or go back to my place?"

Giving space would mean that you would go home and not stay.

"We're suppose to go out of town this Saturday, should I give him his space until Saturday?"

Yes.

"Should I call him any time today, tomorrow, thereafter?"

No, giving means that you do NOT pursue THEM. Instead, you do nothing and you let THEM come to you and pursue you, when they're ready to. A man cannot pursue you if you're kinda' up in his face all the time, ya' know? If you're pursuing him, he does not have the space to pursue you. In order for him to be able to pursue you, you need to pull back and do nothing, giving him the opportunity to do something himself.

"What about texting him?"

No pursuit. No calling, no texting, no social media, no contact whatsoever. If you are the one always initiating things, you're not giving HIM the opportunity to do so.

"Do you think after the child and I meet this will bring my guy back?"

I think if you relax a bit, cease pursuing him (because the constant contact creates a feeling of immense "pressure" to answer to you) and give him the space and time to come to you when he's ready...he'll circle around to you again.

When you chase something dear, their natural reaction is to pull back from the force moving towards you. If you run from something, the natural reaction is to pursue it. He cannot pursue you if you're always running towards him and contacting him first. You need to cease doing so. If you do that, that gives him the space and opportunity to then pursue you, when he's ready to do so.

If you charge at him, he's going to pull back. You need to pull away from him instead, so that he can step forward and pursue you. If you're the one doing all of the work all the time to keep the relationship moving forward, then you deny HIM the opportunity to do so and contribute to the relationship himself.

"What kind of tension can I create with him that will bring him back? "

Silence. No action. No pursuit. No contact. That is the tension that creates the curiosity for HIM to contact YOU.

If he's constantly hearing from you and seeing you, he will not be curious about what's going on with you or in your life because...he already knows everything (because you're always sharing it with him before he has a chance to "wonder" about it). If you cease doing all of that and he does not hear from you or see you, he will eventually become curious as to why that's happening....and HE will contact YOU ;-)

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA.... Tiff720 again... in reference to the other 2 posts. When you say go "silent", are you telling me to not answer his calls as soon as he calls or texts? How often should I respond to his calls/texts? Should I stay over his house Friday night into Saturday morning, or let him pick me up from my place Saturday evening for our out of town trip? What do I say when he does call and metions that he hasn't heard from me? He goes on vacation next week, how should I handle this? Let him invite me to his place instead of me going over there since I have keys?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
A woman just shared a bit of verbiage that Oprah had to say about men, and I think this one fits the bill for you:

"Make him miss you sometimes… When a man always know where you are, and you’re always readily available to him ~ he takes it for granted."

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA.... its Tiff720... so he called yesterday a couple of times. The first time I didn't answer. The second time I answered and we talked for almost 45 mins. During our conversation, he kept saying that "i don't love him anymore"... I laughed because he wasn't being serious. He implied that he was expecting a call from me since he had called me, but I didn't. I told him that worked got hectic, should I have said that?

What should I say if he says that I'm acting different (funny or changing) now? or What should I say when he asked for a reason of me not calling him? What do I say when he calls and I'm out doing an activity that is not with him (its with family)?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I met a sweet guy 3 weeks ago on POF and we’ve been out for 2 weeks for 4 dates. He is Pisces and I am a Scorpio. I was told that these two signs are top one perfect match, which it seems very true. I never feel so comfortable with any other man in such a short time. He initiated all contacts and dates. In the beginning he used to text me a bit every day, sent me songs by emails. After a while I was all fed up and told him I am not interested in such lazy ways of communication, I need a man who can lead a real conversation with me. He called me immediately to explain he liked to speak to me every day, and after that, he does call me more than once every day.

We do not live close by but he came to pick me up each time we went out. He always holds my hand and kisses me in public. He always willing to spend whole day with me knowing certainly we will not have sex soon. He paid for all dates, even I went to buy cookies and coffee, he insisted giving me money. He never pushed for sex, he even said no matter how long, he would just wait. Although there is a red flag he said he loves me too soon, and many times in restaurants he told the waitress I am his wife. I chose to accept that. As long as I feel happy with him, I let this red flag go. Maybe he just wanted to impress me to sleep with him sooner, so what? I know I won’t sleep with him sooner because of that.

What bothers me was yesterday, when we went to the beach with his little cute dog. A woman called him. He hesitated a bit but talked the call, maybe he didn’t want me to have doubts. I heard a woman’s voice, he replied only one sentence “I will call you back” then hang up quickly. He said it was his sister calling, which definitely was a lie because his sister lives in Germany, and they are Italian family, why would they speak English to each other? Later when I played with his dog, he went back to his car, I knew he was there to call that woman.

That night I went home and longed in POF, I found he was online today.

Mirror, I am totally fine he is seeing other women since we’ve been going out only two weeks, I would give him about 1 to 2 months to decide, and I need this time frame for myself to evaluate whether he is the right person for me too. But I don’t like men whose action does not match words. If he didn’t say he loves me, I would just focus on the good time and not bothered by his behavior. However he did say that and he said he isn’t seeing anyone and is not interested in seeing anyone else. Is he just a player? But I only caught him once called by a woman and he always allowed me to play on his phone, and my pictures are all over his phone because every time we were out, he took lots of pictures for me. I visited his place once and stayed the entire day, all was normal, and he said I could come to his house anytime I want to, I assume he isn’t hiding anything. Sorry for the long post, I am just so confused Mirror, what should I do next?

Confusing

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 25, 10:16 AM,
"what should I do next?"

Nothing. There's nothing you can do dear, these things have to play out naturally and it takes time to get to know people. So you need to keep moving forward with your life, dating other men besides this one, and getting to know them better. As time goes on and you get to know them better, you then have more information to make an informed decision from.

So just keep moving forward with your life, seeing him and seeing others, socializing and getting to know each one of them better (not sleeping with them) and eventually, one of them will stand out above the rest. When that happens, you let the others drift away and you move forward with the one that stands out - taking your relationship a bit further together :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the advice Mirror. If I date other men at the same time, will it not affect my relationship development with him? If I want to date other men besides him, I have to remain active on dating website in order to meet new men. I don't know, if I see a man active on dating website while we are going out and moving into a relationship, I will lose interest in him because he seems insincere to me. So if I do that, will he not feel the same way as I do?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 26, 11:26 AM,
"if I see a man active on dating website while we are going out and moving into a relationship, I will lose interest in him because he seems insincere to me"

You shouldn't do that dear. Because here's the thing - dating - is simply dating. It's not a relationship and just because you date doesn't mean that you're going to have a relationship with this individual. Dating is simply the "get to know you" period. It cannot be viewed as a relationship. The only time you're in a relationship...is if a man has asked you for a commitment. That's it, that's the only time. And you can bet your bottom dollar that men on these dating sites ARE INDEED dating other women while they're dating you. That's what everyone is there to do - date around and get to know people. There are no commitments in place.

So there's no reason for you to get upset when you see a man you've dated, using the site to date other women. That's what he's there for. That's what YOU are there for - so that's what YOU should be doing as well - dating around (not sleeping together) and getting to know people.

"If I date other men at the same time, will it not affect my relationship development with him?"

Not if you're not sleeping with any of them and you're simply having dinner or going to the movies and stuff. That's harmless. And you can't assume that just because you've dated...you have a relationship developing. That's not a correct assumption because some people date 2-3 times, and then never see each other again. Some people date a month or two, and then never see each other again. They get to know the person for a while and when they don't see it going anywhere, they move on. That's natural, that's normal, and that's what dating is all about...getting to know the other person, so that you can see if someday, you might want a relationship with them.

When you see these men you date active on the dating site...they're dating other women, they're talking to other women - that's what they paid to use the site for. So when you see that, you should know that you're free to do the same thing they are doing...which is casually dating others (no sex) and getting to know people.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

I have been reading your site for many months and it is really amazing. There is something that I am confused about:

It seems that you are not supposed to show emotions to these men, so does that mean it's a no-go if that's who you are? I struggle with this because my make up is that, as a writer, I am full of emotion, it's a writers job to show empathy and be it or else you cannot create characters if you have no understanding of what drives us as humans, what our flaws are. I have always been attracted to those with a depth of spirit.

So that has always left me as you put it, 'run over by the roadside' for revealing my feelings to men to appear receptive to hearing such things when we are together/dating/in a relationship.

For the last 2 years I have had relationships end by Taurus men who have 'hunted me down' to be in a relationship with me to turn around and mercilessly dump me (slow fade/disappear). In fact the last one did say we were committed/should show my vulnerability so when I do, it seems too much for them. This is when I was going through traumatic stuff that he supported me through, but maybe I was a little too much by being 'upset', even though he was going through a break up a year previously and was OK to show his emotions about that.

On the other hand you say, date others, but that is off limits for me since I am anxious since childhood due to trauma separation. It has shaped my whole life, I have had therapy for my anxious preoccupied disorder, but it seems that I am trapped in a life alone if I cannot express myself to whomever I am dating. I do not mean every day I am full of emotion, it is just that this is something that is simple for me to express as girlfriends do all the time. It would be impossible for me to censor myself, and that would not be who I am. So are you saying we have to pretend/to be someone else to get these men? Seems flawed to me.

It seems it's a man's world if you can't be yourself!

So with that, I am destined for a life alone if there is no man emotionally mature enough to look inside himself and see the beauty in that instead of running for the hills the minute someone shows their vulnerability, or the beauty of it.

thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 31, 8:09 AM,
"It seems that you are not supposed to show emotions to these men, so does that mean it's a no-go if that's who you are?"

We're all emotional dear, it's part of the human condition. Here's the keyword...self-control.

We all have emotions, but not all of us are putting them on display all day long, ya' know? You have to exhibit self-control and self-awareness...and know when - and when NOT - to display them.

Because let's face it, when you display your emotions during a time that you should be exhibiting self-control and self-awareness of your own behavior instead...you're going to lose credibility with people. Their going to see that you lack self-control and an awareness of your own behavior, and when that happens...they don't take you seriously.

Additionally, not everyone DESERVES to KNOW what's going on in your head 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Because some people, once they are armed with that information - will use it against you. You will effectively be giving them the ammunition they need to undermine you, destroy your confidence and bring you down. Once you tell someone what your weaknesses, your worries and your fears are...if they are a nefarious individual - they WILL USE THAT AGAINST you.

"I struggle with this because...I am full of emotion...So that has always left me as you put it, 'run over by the roadside' for revealing my feelings"

See what I mean? There's a time and a place for everything dear. Self-control is key. Being self-aware, meaning aware of your own behavior and how it may be perceived by others, is key. You have to exhibit both if you want your credibility to remain in tact when dealing with others. Because if they see you lack self-control and don't exhibit self-awareness...they will consider you an emotional timebomb, emotionally unstable and unable to control yourself...and unfortunately, many will take advantage of that and be turned off by it.

Dealing with the heavy emotions of others 24/7 is exhausting dear. Men like fun. They don't want the woman they're dating to exhaust them with emotional "drainage" 24/7 that they cannot control. Because it drains their OWN energy and makes dating the woman very exhausting and not fun at all. It makes them feel like dating the woman is work, not fun, and they begin to feel like her therapist instead of her date. Weighing others down with your own emotions and inner thoughts constantly will....bring them down. And they'll begin to associate you with negativity, instead of enjoyment :-(

"On the other hand you say, date others, but that is off limits for me since I am anxious since childhood due to trauma separation."

Well here's the thing dear...if you know that YOU are overly-anxious, then that's something that YOU have to WORK on controlling. The answer is not to expect others to just deal with it because you've always been that way. The answer is for YOU to dig deep within YOURSELF and develop coping methods to move yourself through those periods successfully, in a healthy manner, instead of dumping all of that into someone else's lap just because you've always been that way.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

How do YOU help YOURSELF cope with your anxiety dear? Do you have coping methods in place? Are you working on developing your personal coping skills? Are you working on ways to exhibit self-control?

"It would be impossible for me to censor myself"

It's not about censoring yourself dear, it's about exhibiting self-control and using personal coping skills to aid you in doing so.

"So are you saying we have to pretend/to be someone else to get these men?"

Not at all. I'm saying that you need to exhibit self-control, confidence, poise, grace, self-awareness...and know WHO to invest in - and WHEN to invest in them emotionally. Because not everyone deserves that type of emotional investment and again, nefarious folks will use it against you. So it's important that self-control be exhibited to know who and when to show that to.

For instance, if you show your emotions, fear, worries and anxieties to a player...they WILL use that against you. They will do/say things to "trigger" your emotions to manipulate you into providing something for them. You can't just be on display 24/7 for folks or they will use that against you to get their way with you.

You have to filter through men, get to know them, they have to earn your trust through actions, not words, and you have to come across as stable, confident, self-aware and secure. That's the type of energy that draws people towards you. If you exhibit the opposite and you come across as unstable, insecure and you lack an awareness of your own behavior, folks will gravitate away from you.

"It seems it's a man's world if you can't be yourself!"

It's not about men or women dear. It's about being emotionally healthy and exhibiting emotional wellness and confidence and well being. That's what people are drawn to - man or woman.

Flip it on it's reverse. What if you dated a man that was constantly talk, talk, talking about how he was feeling. Asking you for help, expecting you to listen daily, sometimes for hours on end. Crying, exhibiting sadness, emotions in turmoil - and expecting YOU to FIX ALL OF THAT for him? What if this man rings your phone at least 3 times a week in tears and is expecting YOU to make things right and provide his happiness for him? What if it felt like he relied on you for his happiness, yet no matter what you did, you couldn't stop him from being sad and expressing this sadness all the time, calling you all the time to deal with it, and expecting you to fix it for him?

Now, you tell me...would you ENJOY dating this man? Would you ENJOY being around that all the time?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

If you're honest with yourself, the answer is most likely...no, you wouldn't enjoy that for any extended period of time.

It's not about men versus women. It's about exhibiting YOUR BEST SELF to others.

"no man emotionally mature enough to look inside himself and see the beauty in that"

I'm not sure anyone feels that emotional turmoil is beautiful dear. When you're turmoiled emotionally and that's the side of yourself that you're revealing to the world most of the time...it's NOT showing your BEST self. Your best self is confident, warm, gracious and secure.

piscesgirl said...

so eloquently put! I feel the majority of women -myself included need to print off this post and stick it somewhere we can read it everyday! I know that women-again myself included come to this site for dating advice and advice about men but I love how you don't place the blame solely on the jerk men in this world for everything that may go wrong in our quest for love because you remind women to turn their attention inwards back on themselves. I struggled with self esteem and lack of confidence for years and being needy and emotional and although I believe ive come a long way I still struggle at times with those aspects of my personality. I literally need to ward them off and rise above these negative thoughts because I know that the majority of men can read women like a book and once they sniff out insecurities or lack of self confidence/worth they either take advantage of a woman and her vulnerabilities or they run for the hills..so I learned that projecting an attitude of confidence and emotional stability and showing a man im not afraid of losing him and that I am the prize has received a much better response from men who actually seem to respect me and admire me and want ME to give THEM a chance.Its not always easy but we do as women have to be in control of our emotions and not listen to those voices in our heads that tell us we are not good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, we cant be alone etc... we need to take a stand against those voices because there is too much at stake if we don't and sometimes men who are insecure themselves will be the ones to try to bring out those insecurities in us for their own benefit and gain. I used to think if im not being myself(insecure/needy/emotional) with men than I wasn't keeping it real with them and I wanted them to like me for who I really was not who I was pretending to be because eventually they would find out the truth anyways but that was my distorted thinking telling me that's who I really was! instead of telling myself that who I really am is a smart, beautiful, confident, independent woman who is in total control of my emotions and walks with dignity and grace. What you say about exhibiting you best self to others is not about us being fake or not being ourselves its about us doing the work to get to that point where we become so fully acquainted with our best selves that we know no other self and naturally our best self will project into the world and that's what others will be drawn to. I think its not beneficial to get into the dating world and turn your attention outwardly when there is so much work to do inwardly-people and things can be a distraction from getting to know your true self and becoming your best self.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

Thanks so much for your prompt response! I really appreciate it. I will print out your response. I hear everything you say about my anxiety and I am not going to date ever, if at all, since it is something I need to work on. However when you say 'Dealing with the heavy emotions of others 24/7 is exhausting dear. Men like fun. Weighing others down with your own emotions and inner thoughts constantly will....bring them down. And they'll begin to associate you with negativity, instead of enjoyment :-(' , I don't believe I did weigh them down 24/7 with my feelings, but at the time I was going through a lot of stuff at work and it was very traumatic. I get I am meant to be confident, warm, gracious, secure and I believe that is what attracts men to me in the first place.

However, I am not sure if you have touched on this on previous posts (I have read everything on your site) but at what point do we reveal our true selves? I was in a committed relationship and so I thought it was safe to do so. Relationships aren't always going to be up, there are going to be times when things happen in your life and surely it's your partner that is meant to support you through these times? This means he will see your vulnerable side, when you are upset etc.

I don't mean them being your therapist but seeing your TRUE side, all of them, because that is what makes us human. I understand about the BEST side, I really do, but what happens when you experience a trauma, do you hide it from your partner? This is what I really struggle with. Because if they aren't meant to see you when you are vulnerable and need love and support then I struggle why on earth people have relationships/partnerships in the first place? On the other side of the coin one of my strengths is that I am very supportive of my partner.

I hope you don't mind me asking again, because I am on a very long road to recovery from many many years of being rejected by men and I am struggling with my self confidence in relationships.

Many thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 31, 5:21 PM,
"at what point do we reveal our true selves?"

Well, I think you're missing the point dear. Warm, gracious, confident and secure...IS your true self.

Anxiety, worry, insecurity and lack of confidence...are all only FEAR based. And when you give into them, and you believe that THEY are your true self, they will deceive you. When you give in and you let fear, anxiety, insecurity and lack of confidence steer the wheel in your life and take over in the driver's seat...your TRUE self, the beautiful being that you are, and all that you have to offer the world....are being snuffed out by the FEAR that is in control instead.

If you overcome the fears - the anxiety, worry, insecurity, etc. - then your TRUE self is afforded the ability to come through, to shine, and to radiate warmth and invite others towards you.

Your true self is NOT worry, insecurity and anxiety dear. That is NOT who you are, that is NOT all that you have to offer the world, and that is NOT the bulk of your personality as a human being.

"Relationships aren't always going to be up, there are going to be times when things happen in your life and surely it's your partner that is meant to support you through these times? This means he will see your vulnerable side, when you are upset etc."

Right...but a few things must be in place FIRST, in order for you to trust this individual to handle your heart with care:

1) It must be a committed relationship, where the man has asked your for a commitment (not a situation where you just assume you're in a committed relationship simply because you've been dating a few months).

2) That man has to have EARNED your trust through ACTION, not just a bunch of flowery talk and empty promises.

3) That man has to be emotionally MATURE, so that he handles YOUR emotions with the same amount of maturity and care.

If the man you're involved with is NONE of the 3 things above - committed, action oriented and emotionally mature - then the bad news dear is this...he won't be able to make you happy, because he won't be able to fulfill your emotional needs....because he, himself, is emotionally immature, lacks action and direction and isn't fully committed to you. As a result, he will be unable to fulfill your emotional needs.

"what happens when you experience a trauma, do you hide it from your partner?"

If they've qualified themselves as the RIGHT partner for you, and one that's capable of fulfilling your emotional needs...then yes, they should be able to assist you. But if this is just some guy you've been dating a while, there are no established commitments in place and he's not fully committed to the relationship...then no, he's not the one to share your intimate emotional life with. Your friends and close family would be the ones to go to for that support instead.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Because if they aren't meant to see you when you are vulnerable and need love and support"

Random dudes that you don't know well and are only dating and NOT the ones to lend you the love and support you need. Only men that are mature and fully committed to you, and close friends and family would be the ones to trust with your heart.

"I am struggling with my self confidence in relationships."

Part of that might be because you seem to feel that your TRUE self is insecure, lacks confidence, is anxious and worried. That is NOT who you TRULY are dear. That is simply fear steering the wheel.

Your TRUE SELF is confident, bright, warm, radiant, supporting, loving, secure and confident. THAT is who you truly are...that IS your TRUE self. And once you remove fear from the drivers seat...your true self is then permitted to radiate out into the world :-)

Do NOT permit yourself to believe that your true self is anxious, worried and insecure. That is NOT who you truly are - those are simply your fears taking control. Tell yourself that your TRUE self is beautiful, warm, loving, secure and confident...and realize that it's only your past experiences that are hindering that from coming forth.

Do NOT let your past experiences DEFINE WHO YOU ARE dear. Those are things that have happened TO you...they are NOT who you TRULY are :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

So I took your advice to date other men besides the Pisces man I really like, going on POF daily. Sunday we went to a little day trip, he brought up the topic that he did not want to see any other women but I am still on POF and asked how many men I am seeing now. When I said he's on POF too he said he just went on to check on me. I knew if I ask him to remove his profile, he would but I didn't. I want him to do that on his own decision. I saw missed calls from his exgf during our trip, honestly I felt very uncomfortable, obviously he didn't tell her not to call him anymore.

I do feel sort of guilty doing this dating rotation, for both him and other men I am using. This Pisces man adores me, he knew I liked his dog very much, after giving the dog back to his ex gf, he went crazy to find another similar looking one in another country and was going to buy it for me; he took me to any places I wanted to go, and offered to buy me expensive gifts although I rejected; he began to pay close attention to what I said, he had no interest looking at other girls even if we went to a club surrounding by many sexy women, his attention was always on me; he became the one started saying we didn't need sex to be exciting because he felt exciting and happy just being with me and he can wait forever; needless to say, he likes to take pictures of me and my pictures are all over his phone.

Now each time I logged in POF I was struggling. We've been seeing each other only 1 month, total 6 dates and sometimes I did have doubts, the smart thing to do should be keeping options open. But as a Scorpio, I value loyalty and I don't want to hurt his feelings. If he ever asked me again how many men I am seeing now, I don't know how to answer. And be honestly Mirror, I hate to lose him because he may think I am not serious about him at all. I lookforward to your advice. Thank you.

Confusing

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused,
"I do feel sort of guilty doing this dating rotation, for both him and other men I am using"

Why are you using these men? And what are you using them for? You're supposed to be dating around casually (no sex) and getting to know them - not using them.

"Sunday we went to a little day trip, he brought up the topic that he did not want to see any other women but I am still on POF and asked how many men I am seeing now. When I said he's on POF too he said he just went on to check on me."

Well...he's obviously lying dear. Someone is lying here. Because in your previous comment, you wrote this:

"What bothers me was yesterday, when we went to the beach with his little cute dog. A woman called him. He hesitated a bit but talked the call, maybe he didn’t want me to have doubts. I heard a woman’s voice, he replied only one sentence “I will call you back” then hang up quickly. He said it was his sister calling, which definitely was a lie because his sister lives in Germany, and they are Italian family, why would they speak English to each other? Later when I played with his dog, he went back to his car, I knew he was there to call that woman.

That night I went home and longed in POF, I found he was online today."

If, as he claims, he only went on the site to check on you...then why was it that YOU found HIM there ACTIVE on the site FIRST? If that's the case, then he's lying to you when he claims he's only there checking on you...because YOU found him active there FIRST, before you decided to start dating other men. Which is the entire reason I advised you to date other men... because clearly, he'd already been doing that.

His WORDS do NOT align with his ACTIONS dear - even you, yourself, recognize that:

"But I don’t like men whose action does not match words."

"I saw missed calls from his exgf during our trip, honestly I felt very uncomfortable, obviously he didn't tell her not to call him anymore."

He's clearly still maintaining some sort of a relationship with his ex and he has not asked you for a committed relationship, NOR has HE pulled down his profile from the dating site. So you have no reason to feel like this "I do feel sort of guilty."

"I hate to lose him because he may think I am not serious about him at all."

Why are you more worried about him than you are about yourself dear? HE should be worried that YOU aren't taking HIM serious at all...because he's:

1) still active on the dating site
2) you've caught him lying about it
3) he's manipulating you into feeling guilty for doing the same exact thing he is doing
4) his WORDS (I love you) do NOT align with his ACTIONS (he's still active on the dating site and still maintaining a relationship with his ex)

So why be concerned about what HE thinks? He should be worried about YOU think about HIM.

Cont...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"the smart thing to do should be keeping options open"

Your gut is attempting to speak to you using logic, and you're confusing yourself by letting your emotions override that logic dear :-(

"as a Scorpio, I value loyalty"

That's fine...but not everyone deserves that loyalty dear. Only people who PROVE themselves WORTHY of it through their ACTIONS deserve it - only people who are loyal BACK TO YOU deserve that. Only people who commit loyalty TO you deserve that loyalty FROM you.

"I don't want to hurt his feelings"

Again, why are you concerned about how you're making HIM feel dear, when HE is making YOU feel like this:

"I do feel sort of guilty"

"honestly I felt very uncomfortable"

"I was struggling"

"I did have doubts"

"I was all fed up"

"If he ever asked me again how many men I am seeing now, I don't know how to answer."

You tell the truth. You tell him that you've dated a few men casually, nothing serious, no sex, and you're not seeing any of them regularly.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Thank you for the quick reply. The woman called him the other day was his exgf, and after that, he made a decision to give her back her dog in order to cut contact with her, depite he is already attached to the dog a bit. But still, you are right, that's a mess too. So far I kind of believe he isn't seeing any new women because we see each other a lot. We spent the whole weekend days together, no sex though. Plus he calls me often, if he sitll has enenry to date other women, I would be surprised.

He did ask me for a committed relationship, many times. Maybe he wasn't able to do it in a mature way though. And I said I need more time to know him more. He is a little bit afraid of scaring me away too, I could feel that because anything I brought to the table, he would agree to.

But I will take your advice and tell him the truth and see what will happen. Thank you Mirror.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I am the confusing girl. I have one more question that I want to ask for your advice. When I date 2 or 3 men at the same time, while having strong feeling for just one. You know after 3 to 4 dates, those men will need some physical connection such as kiss. How do I handle this, to kiss a man when I am really just interested in the other one? I have another man who went out for 3 dates and he started developing feeling for me, I feel very guilty that he is taking me out for nice dinner but I don't have feeling for him. Today he asked me out again, I am hesitating to respond to his invitation. What would you suggest? Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

I have a dilemma. I met a guy online and we met for a drink after a week of emailing. The date went great and when we parted he said 'we will talk again very very soon'. He kissed me on the cheek but didn't try for a proper kiss.

When I got home he texted me to check that I got home safely and told me he had a lovely time, I replied similarly. The next morning (yesterday) he texted to reiterate that he had a great time and asking if I slept well.

We texted a few times back and forth in the morning but then I was busy through the afternoon so didn't reply to his last message until last night. I asked how his day was and he replied with a one liner saying it was 'greeeeeattt' and asking how mine was. I was a bit perturbed that he was so short and I replied with a one liner saying I had a good but busy day.

Late in the evening I followed up with a tongue in cheek text saying that he used to be much more fun at texting and that it was nice to meet him. I guess I was annoyed that he hadn't asked me out again for the weekend.. I know that my message to him was probably a mistake and may have come across very needy.

He replied this morning saying he had just seen my messages and asking me what was wrong. I reiterated that I felt he had been quieter than usual last night and he said that he had had a busy day. I told him I hoped today would be better and he replied with 'I definitely hope so'. That was it... and I haven't heard from him all today although he has been active on the website we met on.

Do you think I have killed his interest by being needy? And is there anything you think I can do to redeem myself? I thought we had good potential and really expected him to ask me for a date this weekend.. although he had not suggested that yet.

Thanks so much MOA, would really really appreciate your insight, I live by your blog posts (although clearly I need to practice harder).. :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 4, 5:37 PM,
"Do you think I have killed his interest by being needy? I thought we had good potential and really expected him to ask me for a date this weekend.. although he had not suggested that yet."

Well, here's the thing dear. When you go on a date with a man, or even when you've gone on a few dates and you even sleep with the guy...that does NOT guarantee a relationship. It does not guarantee the man will call, and it does not guarantee he'll want things to take off at hyper speed.

The dating/courtship phase is the "get to know you" phase - and nothing more. Just because you go on one date with a guy doesn't mean you can expect that that will take off and zip into a budding relationship. You have to look at that phase as purely social....until it actually becomes more.

Additionally, and this is a biggie dear....a lot of men purposely pull back on a woman after dating her, AND after sleeping with her. Why do they do that?

Many times, it's because they're testing. They're testing the "crazy lady" factor and sometimes, they're testing the interest level. They want to see how you will react. Are you confident and will you remain emotionally balanced? Or are you insecure and will you go off the deep end when things don't go your way?

So when you date dear, particularly online, you can't have "expectations" that you project onto others. Because when folks are dating and especially when they're dating online, chances are, they're dating around and dating others as well. That's what people pay to use those dating sites for - to date. And you can't expect a date to lead to a relationship. You can't expect a date to lead to things taking off. You can't even expect that sleeping with a man will lead to any of those things. It's your expectations here that kinda' got in the way, ya' know?

"is there anything you think I can do to redeem myself?"

Don't contact him again. Give this a few days, let him go on about his business for a couple weeks...and see if HE contacts YOU. If he does, then pick up where you left off...without expectations that this will lead to anything. If he doesn't, then don't try to take control and make something happen with a man that isn't interested. If you do that, you'll only bring yourself pain.

"I thought we had good potential and really expected him to ask me for a date this weekend"

I realize that but the thing is, you can't do that dear. You can't project your expectations onto another and then expect things to go your way ya' know? Just because you go on a date with a man doesn't mean that that man will then push things into hyper speed, start seeing you regularly each week, and then zip this into relationship territory.

In all honesty dear, when things DO move like that...that's a red flag. When a man swoops in and tries to sweep you off your feet in record time, moving things along at a high speed pace...it's a red flag. Because things that burn hot - also burn OUT fast. That speed tends to lead to brief, high tensity affairs and flings - not long-lasting, permanent relationships.

So when you date dear, look at the dating phase a purely social. You're going out with the guy to get to know him a bit better. You don't expect regular dates with the man, and you don't stop dating other men simply because you had one date with a different one. You keep moving forward, dating casually (no sex) and getting to know different men. And you keep doing this until one man starts to rise above all others, and asks you for a commitment. Look at dating as purely social and "get to know you" until that happens.

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA

I am Anonymous Aug 31, 5:21 PM, "at what point do we reveal our true selves?."

I would just like to say thank you so much for your response. I don't know who you are but you deserve an award, some sort of Nobel peace prize for all those women out there whose hearts, like mine have been broken so many times, that you are left for dead on the roadside!

I have been in therapy for many, many years and you summed up my position in just those paragraphs that a therapist was never able to do: when I was in a session, it was always 'woa is me' instead of guiding me what I should do: not let my anxiety be ME, to remove it from my drivers seat and find a man who makes me happy, who is committed/action orientated and emotionally mature. Unfortunately the ones I have had in my life for the last decade have been none of those things, but because I have such a low view of myself, I thought I couldn't do any better.

Guess the last one wasn't, he did not fulfil the last two criteria, despite being a good 'salesman'. In fact when I first met him I told him he was like a 'used car salesman' meaning he had the gift to sell me a car he knew was falling to pieces. I knew what he was but didn't trust my instinct. I just believed because I was approaching my 50's, was single and unique, I wouldn't be able to get anything else, so should be grateful he gave a shit (at the beginning)

Thank you Mirror from the bottom of my heart. I am writing a novel now, and it has taken me 2 years, but it gives me that comfort and joy you seek, finding my own happiness than trying to from someone with a set of gonads.

You have helped me more than you'll ever know, and I am going to take time out to find the very person you describe, the one my friends see me, the one who is talented, warm, gracious, funny and confident.

Here's to the law of attraction, I am going to change my vibrations to good ones, not ones of bad from past experiences.

thank you. And to the ladies out there, go find yourself, find who YOU are, don't let a man define you, you are better than that. If you need to take the time out to get the waves return to the shore after the hurricane then do that to. All my friends are in relationships, that doesn't mean you should be too. Just get back to the unique you that will attract the right person to you and it doesn't have to be today or tomorrow, it just will be some day. Don't be frightened of loneliness, of the lack of contact, just enjoy being with you!

thank you MOA!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 31, 5:21 PM,
"Unfortunately the ones I have had in my life for the last decade have been none of those things, but because I have such a low view of myself, I thought I couldn't do any better."

Now you understand why that mindset and letting fear take over is so destructive dear. So do everything in your power each day to remain in the positive. Come up with ways to forcefully override those negative thoughts. Once you start to practice things like that, it "rewires" the brain. Many refer to it as "mind mapping."

For instance, when you're in the negative mindset and experiencing negative thoughts, one thing that's very simple that may really help is...get up and get moving. Don't sit and give in to those thoughts. Get physical somehow, it distracts the mind. So if you find you're moving into a "funk" - go for a walk. Or pick up on old hobby again. Or go to lunch with girlfriends. Or go shopping. Or go workout. Or go work out in the yard or garden. Regardless of what it is, just that one little task of getting up and getting active distracts the mind, and the physical portion releases the anxiety those negative feelings causes in a healthy manner. It's a win-win dear.

"I am writing a novel now, and it has taken me 2 years, but it gives me that comfort and joy you seek, finding my own happiness than trying to from someone with a set of gonads."

And the ROI (return on investment) from that will have a greater payoff as well. If you're going to invest loads of time, effort and energy into something....investing in yourself will have the greatest payoff.

"I am going to take time out to find the very person you describe, the one my friends see me, the one who is talented, warm, gracious, funny and confident."

She's there dear, all you have to do is set all of that fear aside and make room so that she may shine forth. :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, it's Anonymous Sep 4, 5:37 PM here.

Thank you so much for your advice - it helped to calm my 'crazy' thoughts! I definitely tend to project my expectations onto guys, and I realise that this is not helpful to him or me!

Just to give you an update, I texted my date on Sunday asking him to keep our conversations confidential (we have mutual friends who we discussed on our date) and he replied asking for feedback as to why I didn't want to see him again. So all-in-all, it was my misunderstanding/ insecurity that he was not interested enough and actually he is still interested in seeing me but thought I did not want to see him again.

We have our second date on Friday and then he goes away for 2 weeks vacation. I guess this will be a slow burner if it does go anywhere, and I intend to take your advice and continue to date other guys until one steps up.

Thank you, you are wonderful :)

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA...

So I have been dating this guy for 5 months now. Though we have had a few disagreements, I feel angry, frustrated, pissed off, mad and like a fool.... I have access to alot of things in his place because one of my standards in that we're transparent and honest. I have access to his house, alarm codes, passcode, password to his phone, laptop and iPad to say the least. However, yesteday while playing a card game on his iPad an email alert came through, but it was from a dating website. Now we met off of a dating website and we both had agreed to remove our profiles. Obviously he didn't remove it from this site. So I put on my investigator hat and created a profile on that site and searched and found him. To my surprise he was ACTIVE on the site and he had some pictures on there. He changed his profile name on the site as well. The message that he received and responded to showed that he was in a relationship now. WTH!!! My understanding was that we both agreed to remove our profiles from any dating sites that we were on. Now I feel like the trust is gone because he lied to me. He begged me yesterday that he's sorry, he don't want to hurt me, he wants to marry me, have a family blah blah blah. I just stood there very silent until he tried to reverse his fault on me. NO NO NO, I couldn't believe what he was trying to do. So I immediately put a stop to that. I stayed over his house last night because I didn't want to drive home frustrated or mad. He asked me this morning if he was still in the "dog-house". I told him that I forgive you, but I cannot forget and to let me continue to process my feelings because I don't know whether to believe you or not. He told me that he'll do anything to make us work. He was sorry again blah blah blah. He tried to kiss me and I turned my face... I am suppose to stay over this house tonight because I have to volunteer tomorrow and its closer to his house. Now I'm feeling jaded. I want him to prove that he is sorry to me. So what would you suggest? I have already decided to not contact him by phone or text.

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA... in addition to my previous post....

I have decided to remove ALL of my things from his place, but keep the keys. Should I return his keys? He'll be at work when I get to his house to gather all of my things. So, he'll be in for a rude awaken when he gets home from work.... I will disappear for a couple of days, about 2-3 days to let him suffer the consequences of his actions. I will not call or text or answer/return his calls either. I refuse to be disrespected and taken advantage of. It hurts and I want him to fill my raft! I don't like feeling the way that I am feeling and I hate doing things like this, but I value myself too much to put up with his shenanigans! or any man's ... your thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"an email alert came through, but it was from a dating website. Now we met off of a dating website and we both had agreed to remove our profiles. Obviously he didn't remove it from this site. So I put on my investigator hat and created a profile on that site and searched and found him. To my surprise he was ACTIVE on the site and he had some pictures on there. He changed his profile name on the site as well. The message that he received and responded to showed that he was in a relationship now. WTH!!!....what would you suggest?"

I'd have left him right then and there and never looked back. He's been caught in a lie, he's destroyed the trust, and he's not to be trusted again.

"Should I return his keys?"

Mail them - and never look back dear. This man is not to be trusted.

AuthenticScorpio said...

Your teachings have helped me again, Mirror (lol on a guy that I don't want at all but who caught me off guard).

He's a coworker. Two days ago he comes into the office that we share and asks when am I going to let him take me on a date. He's not my type and his question caught me completely off guard. He didn't seem like he was joking and I kind of stumbled when I answered saying....I don't know? There was an awkward silence so I respond a few seconds later saying maybe we can see a movie. He says sure, let's put that on the calendar, when is a good day. I say Wednesday and then I rush off to go home for the day and mind is like ????

The next day another coworker comes in and asks if he's going to a happy hour being thrown on Wednesday. He says maybe. I'm sitting right there but I just keep working on my computer and tuck that away as a red flag. Then today while we're all talking as a group, he announces that he's going to the happy hour tonight and then out to dinner with another coworker/friend, with NO mention of our plans to see a movie. He didn't pull me away beforehand to let me know the tonight wouldn't work for him - just kind of nonchalantly through it out there for me to hear that he'd ended up with other plans.

An overly emotional response would have been for me to question him about our discussed plans, but I'm actually happy that he didn't follow through on it lol. It was interesting to experience a man pulling a stunt in person - maybe he just asked me out just to see if I'd say yes and he'd get validation from that? And maybe he announced his other plans for the night to see if I'd react to him flaking out, which I didn't. So funny that I've been able to use these tips on men who just happen to pop up that I'm not even interested in romantically. Definitely helped me suss out if he can be taken seriously.

Him asking me for a date did catch me off guard though. Gotta figure out a way to be quick on my feet and graciously decline requests that happen on the fly. And to not accept dates from men that I pretty much know I'd never be interested in romantically - there's no rule to say that every man deserves a chance just because he asks. It's not always easy to transition out of being a yes, woman - but I'm making strides!

Anonymous said...

I met this very nice guy who works at a pharmacy where I get my meds. I started talking to him as would anyone. Next thing you know, he starts ignoring me everytime I see him. He probavly thinks I like him but I don't. I visit the pharmacy often since it is close to my house and very convenient. I feel like I can't talk to any guy because they automatically think I like them and start acting rude. How should I react to this?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

I am the confusing girl who wrote to you a month ago. I got into an exclusive relationship 1 month after I met my boyfriend. It has been working very well. We are the happiest couple in the world, he treats me like a queen and he calls me his queen. We both removed profile from POF, and spent lots of time together. 2 weeks ago we decided to see each other twice a week no matter what and he suggested to call for goodnight every night before going to bed during the weekdays when we are not seeing each other. It went beyond goodnight call, we chat more than 1 hour each time. He’d do everything for me, he bought me a diamond necklace, his car, his house, everything I want, he said I could just take it. He brought up our future all the time. Amazingly, he did all these from his heart, we never had sex in the two months, and he knows he still needs to wait for some time, but he is just happy being with me without expecting sex.

Until last night we had our first fight, I started it and really pissed him off. We ended the conversation almost with a breakup. Late at night I apologized for my behaviour through a text and he called me this morning, he said he loves me no matter what.

I started realizing it causes so much pain when commitment is there but not enough time to gain trust. Under the pressure from him, I had to cut out all other options and put all expectations on him, it is suffering to me; but if I keep my options open, it hurts him and he will be suffering. I don’t know how to change the situation now Mirror, I need your help. I appreciate any advice you may give to me, thank you.

Confusing

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confusing,
"I started realizing it causes so much pain when commitment is there but not enough time to gain trust. Under the pressure from him, I had to cut out all other options and put all expectations on him, it is suffering to me; but if I keep my options open, it hurts him and he will be suffering."

Unfortunately dear, these are the types of issues that raise their ugly head when things move a bit too fast. And while you didn't become intimate with him, you did enter into a commitment with him rather quickly. I mean, I agree with you - four weeks is not enough time to build trust. And you can't just commit a little. Just like you can't be a little pregnant. You're either in - or you're out.

And it sounds like - you're in dear. So at this point, given you've committed to him, you're just going to have to tough this out, pace things slowly, and give both yourselves plenty of time to build trust in one another. Relationships aren't perfect. They require work and compromise, and time to grow. Arguments will happen. Disappointments will happen. And you're both just going to have to work through them dear. There's no magic fix here.

But I will say this. If you're uncomfortable with this commitment, then you need to think about that - about whether or not you're actually READY to commit that fully to a man that you do not yet know through and through, and therefore, cannot completely place your trust in as a result. Because if you're not ready, and you force yourself to participate in this...you may unknowingly begin to self-sabotage. You may begin to overreact to small things that normally wouldn't bother you, because deep down inside, this trust issue is unresolved. So just think about that a bit. And if you decide to proceed, you're going to just have to work through this stuff dear. He sounds like he's willing to work and invest into the relationship, and realizes these things happen. So I don't think working through these things together should be too much of an issue because it sounds as if he's "present" in the relationship enough to do so.

Anonymous said...

Hi all. I am in a situation where I met a guy who I clicked with. Though he had been in my area for a short while for work we clicked like no other and I thought I made him happy. A month after he left I found out that he had been dating soneone else at the same exact time he was wtih me. He made her promises of marriage and having babies while he only told me he wanted to marry me once and never made mention of wanting to have a baby with me. On confronting him after finding out he simply said he was not proud and was forgetting abt the whole situation and I should do the same as well. And never been texted me again after that. As the other lady he was with and I have now become friends she tells me that he has always contacted her after I revealed to him yhat I knew abt them. He constantly tries to apologise to her a thing he hasn't done with me. Recently she decided to respond to his messages and he told her he still feels strongly for her and is sorry abt the mistakes he has made. In that conversation she advised to extend apology to me as well but at this moment I don't wanta ssolicited apology that is not truthful. How should I respond when he tries to contact me

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 13, 4:24 AM,
"How should I respond when he tries to contact me."

You shouldn't respond at all. This man doesn't deserve anymore of your attention, and rewarding bad behavior with more of your time/attention is never wise:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

"Silence is the ultimate weapon of power." ~ Charles de Gaulle

piscesgirl said...

"This man, whom I thought of as a romantic hero, a brave shining white knight-or the dark knight,as he said. He's not a hero; he's a man with serious deep emotional flaws, and he's dragging me into the dark" - E.L. James Fifty Shades of Grey

Anonymous said...

MOA - Of all the commentary and advice on the web. Your page, and you are by far the best!
Thank you for being a light in the dark!! Life Changing, ...in a very good way.

Tiff720 said...

Hi MOA... I have an issue. I've been dating this guy since May of this year. Now things seems to be moving right along. We have had a few in between issues, but they were settled once we communicated our feelings and how we're going to fix this issues... Here's the issue, so I talked to him after leaving bible study today. He mentioned to me that he wasn't feeling well. We work opposite shifts (I'm mornings and he's afternoon) and that he's probably going to break his diet plan that we're both on (I'm supporting him to loose his weight because that is what HE wants to do) and go get him some liquor to make a Hot Totti. I told him that there was no need for that and I feel it'll be best that he come to my place so that I can take care of him. Well he goes on to say that that was not in his plan. That will throw everything off. I mean WTH!!! So I said WOW. this is all about your convenience. I tend to go his way consistently, even when I know it'll inconvenience me all because I want to be with him and around him because of our different shifts. Am I wrong for wanting to do this? He goes on to say lets not go there after my comment. See my spirit was feeling great after leaving bible study and being sweet and kind to him then he goes to make that comment that just frustrated the hell out of me. I didn't want to argue or have any disagreement so I immediately got off the phone from him. Right then, I realized that it is time for me to pull back. Stop going over to his house which is 30 minutes away from me, Stop inconveniencing myself so that I can see him. Make him want to come my way make him MISS me being at his convenience. How should I proceed with doing this? Is this the best thing to do? I figured that I will discuss how I felt about the situation in a couple of days after cooling off all because I didn't want to argue or have a disagreement. I wanted to go into this with a level mind/thinking especially so that I wouldn't say something that I really didn't mean. Is this the best way to let him know how I feel or how should I handle this?

After hanging disconnecting the call. I received this from him in a text: "Hey baby was not trying to take your joy away. I have a agenda that I am trying to keep up with (gym & cleaning up my house). I DID NOT respond. I feel that that text is an excuse. I have been very supportive in his weight lost journey and a few times I tried to assist him with cleaning his house when he wasn't around (he's not the cleanness person), he was bothered that I moved things into a bag to clear a spot. So I told him I would NEVER touch anything again. I told him that him being bothered by my cleaning made me feel uncomfortable with touching anything else or offering any to help with cleaning.

There's an upcoming holiday this weekend (Sweetest Day). I want to purchase some tickets to a comedy show at a great price, but after his comment today. I feel like he doesn't deserve to be treated. Though he's always paying for us to going to different events and do different activities. I was trying to be a team player but I'm not feeling like I should give him that. Am I being petty or how should I handle this?

Any suggestions about this issue? Please help!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
"I tend to go his way consistently, even when I know it'll inconvenience me all because I want to be with him and around him because of our different shifts. Am I wrong for wanting to do this?"

It's not that you're wrong dear, it's that in this case, you're acting against yourself and probably don't realize it. Meaning, you doing that...you bending constantly to accommodate him...only ENABLES him to CONTINUE to do so.

If you want things to change dear, then that starts with you - change starts with you.

When you keep supporting someone to do the same things over and over again, then that's what you get - more of the same, over and over again.

"Stop going over to his house which is 30 minutes away from me, Stop inconveniencing myself so that I can see him. Make him want to come my way make him MISS me being at his convenience. How should I proceed with doing this?"

You just answered you're own question dear. The way to do this...is to stop "do, do, doing" for him constantly. If you want it to stop, YOU have to stop it. You have to stop enabling him to continue doing this.

"I figured that I will discuss how I felt about the situation in a couple of days after cooling off all because I didn't want to argue or have a disagreement."

I would not discuss this with him. I would just do it. And then let HIM come to YOU to ask what's wrong, and then talk about it at that time. If you go about this the opposite way, trying to "do, do, do" for him by telling him exactly what's on your mind...your efforts will fall flat.

Again, change starts with you. So instead of "do, do, doing" for him and the relationship all the time....just give yourself permission to stop - and then stop. It's really that simple. You don't have to explain yourself to him - unless HE asks.

"Is this the best way to let him know how I feel or how should I handle this?"

No. I'd suggest that you take the route I just referenced above instead. Because again, think about it, if you explain - you're "doing" again. And the entire point is to STOP DOING. Stop trying so hard to make everything perfect, and instead, make him work at this too. If you explain yourself, you give him nothing to worry about, nothing to think about and nothing to wonder about.

If you truly want his attention and want to be noticed, then you STOP "doing" and instead, take action without explanation. Give him something to think about, something to worry about and something to wonder about.

"I want to purchase some tickets to a comedy show at a great price"

You're "doing" again dear. If YOU keep doing things like this, all you do is make is easy for him NOT to do anything.

Give yourself permission to stop dear - and don't explain yourself or what you're doing or why - until HE does something and takes NOTICE.

Tiff720 said...

thank you for your response MOA... when you say "don't explain yourself to him - unless HE asks" I seem to struggle with explaining myself. I say too much! What should I say or how should I handle this? What do I say if HE asks what I am doing?

Though I don't have any close friends, I decided to take myself bowling and played a few games. Tomorrow's game plan is to probably go to the movies or just make my favorite dish. I am starting to focus on ME and the things that i enjoy doing. Things I should have been continuing doing while dating him... I have learned that when you're dating or in a relationship, the things that you normally do falls to the side ALL BECAUSE YOU'RE "IN LOVE" OR "LOVING THE FEELING/IDEA OF BEING IN LOVE". The reality hits, all the things that have fallen to the side, then you begin to figure out how to pick them back up and start all over again and continue to be YOURSELF, etc. It's a hard struggle that I am working on accomplishing. REALITY can definitely be a FEAR.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, It’s Confused New Yorker. July 28, 2014 at 9:58 PM , July 30, 2014 at 10:21 AM , and August 5, 2014 at 8:53 PM :-)

Long story short: This were going good until my guy shut down on me emotionally. I ended the relationship on July 30th, then questioned my decision August 5th after he made a series of attempts to contact me.
Well… despite my questions I stuck to my guns. I never replied, never initiated contact, and I hadn’t heard from him since mid-August. Then yesterday I get a text from him: “Hi.” I responded: “Hi.” We texted for minutes - exchanged the normal pleasantries – then he said he thinks about me often and misses me. I said: “I see… :-) it’s good to hear from you.” That was it.

Mirror, I compartmentalize well so on the outside I’ve been fine for the past two months. Really… as long as I stay busy I’m good. But at the end of the day when there’s no more work to do – when all my friends and family are sleeping – I’m thinking about him. It’s been two months and I still think about him every day! I was never going to call him so I’ve just been hoping to run into him around the city.

Anyway…I didn’t shut him down when he texted me so I have no doubt that he’ll contact me again. But I don’t know how to handle this. I miss him but I haven’t forgotten why the relationship ended in the first place.
Please offer some of your brilliant advice… What do I do next?

Yours Truly,
Confused New Yorker

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused New Yorker,
"What do I do next?"

Nothing dear. There's nothing you need to do here. You're anticipating things that haven't happened yet, and there's no need for that. It's not necessary to waste precious time and energy trying to anticipate what's next.

It's not as complicated as you think dear. If you permit him to come back into your life with a simple "hi" or "hey" - without HIM having to WORK harder than that (i.e. you not responding to his lame attempts with one word texts and not responding at all until he apologizes or invites a talk)...then you'll get more of the same. (Because he knows all he has to do is say "hi" and he's back in.)

So if you want things to change, YOU have to change. You have to cease responding to him AT ALL until he does one of two things to PROVE that he's genuinely interested and READY to repair things:

1) He has to apologize.
2) He has to invite a "talk"

If he doesn't do either of those things...if he doesn't WORK HARDER at winning you back - then he's not worth your time and if you let him back BEFORE either of those two things happen, you'll get more of the same dear.

You have to make him jump through hoops and WORK to win you over. If you make this easy and he doesn't have to do anything other than say "hi" to get your attention back - then nothing will change.

Read this piece written by a man titled, "Do Men Ever Step Up Without a Woman's Expectations?"

http://www.singleblackmale.org/2012/04/25/do-men-ever-step-up-without-a-womans-words-or-actions/

Tiff720 said...

Hi Mirror... so the other day, I kept pondering in my head that I won't tell him how I felt about his comment becuase you had mentioned that if I do it'll fall flat. Well, I was listening to some music on his music account (he downloaded to my laptop). I downloaded the music thinking that it'll go over to my media player, but instead it ended up purchasing the music. Oops! So I wanted to let him know (wanted to give him some time to sleep before telling him); however, I get a text saying "Y did U buy music without my permission". Ummm, I realized I made the mistake and owned up to so I called him. When I called him, he sounded very irritated, like he had woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I explained to him my mistake and that I'll give him back his money and that I won't touch that music account again. After that conversation ended, I asked him how he was doing, he replied "I'm good", I replied back saying oh well it doesn't sound like it. then as I kept pondering in my head about my feelings, I ended up trying to express my feelings about the comment he had made the night before. He told me that it should not have been a problem becuase he had a plan and coming my way was not in his plan. Well Damn!!! Really??? Then he began cutting me off not allowing me to talk and said that I am always playing the victim. I was completely taken aback. He's good at turning things around and trying to make me feel bad. I implied that each time I talk and try to express my feelings you're always cutting me off, but I always give you the respect of the floor and let you speak, but you're disrespecting me and I am not going to tolerate that. Was I wrong? Long story short, that fell flat. At the end of the phone conversation, he said that he'll fix it. I asked him fix what. he told me to not worry about it he will fix it. I asked him if there was something I needed to know or be aware of or if he needed some space. He replied well maybe I do need some space. WTH!!! I asked for clarification and he did not bother. So the phone conversation ended after he said I'll just talk to you later. I was in a ball of tears and ran to the bathroom and cried and prayed. I don't know what happend. Things were getting back good from an incident that happened last month, and now all of a sudden since Tuesday, things have seem to turn. I really feel like it's a challenge or he is testing me. He did not call me/text yesterday after that morning conversation. I went over his house to pick up a few things of mines and did not stay. He didn't come to my place either. Should I be concern? I talked to my father yesterday about the situation, he mentioned to keep my eyes open he may be interested in another woman and it's challenging to him because he's trying to figure out a way to get to her so causing an argument with me will be his out. I don't think that, but he is a man. So I'm not sure. Should I call/text him since he hasn't called me? Should I go over to his place and wait for him to get home? I thought we were dating to be married soon, but now I feel like he is treating me as a girlfriend and not his soon to be wife. Then this has put into a perspective for if I want to marry him because of his actoins.

How should I handle this? Please help

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Tiff720,
" Should I call/text him since he hasn't called me? Should I go over to his place and wait for him to get home?...How should I handle this? Please help."

I don't think I can help you dear. I've tried - but you've done the exact opposite dear. And as I tried to warn, doing so...causes those efforts to fall flat.

As I explained in my previous response to you dear - change starts with YOU. Nothing will change until YOU do. The more you try to control the situation, the more it will spiral away from you.

Anonymous said...

hi MOA...big THANK YOU for all the articles, they OPENED my eyes on dating world... Could you help with one issue...there is a man, i met couple times, he lives in another city, we are friends now...he texts me from time to time, but he never asks anything about me, just basics and if i dont keep the converstation, he would not keep either...Is he trying to manipulate me? i just keep mirroring him now... Is he keeping me as an option for the future ( i dont know when we will meet again, unless he comes to my city and we are texting months now) why would someone do that? please share your thoughts how to handle this man as a strong woman... I am looking forward for your answer..

Anonymous said...

HI Mirror,

It's me, the confusing girl again. Thank you so much for the advice you gave me, now everything is going great.We've been together almost 3 months now, my boyfriend loves me from his heart and I started falling in love with him too. My birthday is coming up soon and I plan to give myself to him on that date.

Only there is one thing I am struggling. According to his dating history - he slept with several women soon after second date before we met, I want him to have blood test before we start physical intimacy. Since he loves me so much, I am so afraid I will hurt his feeling. I don't know how to bring this topic up. Do you have any suggestion about this? Thank you and I really appreciate every advice you give to me.

Confusing

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 18, 2:34 PM,
"if i dont keep the conversation, he would not keep either"

That's not a good sign dear. Genuinely interested me actually SHOW an interest in the woman, ya' know? They engage her in conversation and vie for her attention.

"Is he keeping me as an option for the future...why would someone do that?"

People do this everyday dear. They keep their options open, so that if one falls through, many more are already lined up that they can quickly get underway.

"Is he trying to manipulate me?"

It's too soon to tell dear. But if he continues to contact you and let the conversations drop without ever asking if he can call you or take you out or trying to kick the relationship up a notch...I wouldn't waste my time entertaining that from him for too long - I'd move on. Because you don't want to be caught in the "e-maintaining" trap, where he speaks to you through a mobile device from time to time but never actually DOES anything else.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA... I am struggling to gather my thoughts and how to respond to him and approach the matter and need some insight.... Granted we're 10 years apart, but that doesn't matter. I've dated older, but every guy is very different and this is all new to me... I've been dating this guy for 5 months now. We've been intimate, stay over each others house, have agree to disagree moments, but last week while out. He mentioned that he's pulling back from spoiling me. At first I didn't think anything of it and did not address it because of the environment we were in. So yesterday, I followed up with him about it and asked why does he feels he has to pull back on spoiling me. His response was that he did not want me to have "set expectations" for him spoiling me. WTH!!! I asked him if I ever presented to him that I "expect" for him to spoil me and to give me an example. Of course, he redirects the conversation. I didn't realize it unitl this morning while driving to work that he never gave me his reason. I have never had a guy tell me that. Then he goes on to say that he wants to marry me but doesnt know when. I was at awe and didn't know how to respond. What should I have said? Or should I bring this back up to get clarification? How should I handle this? I was thinking I should pull back from sleeping with him, not staying over his house alot, and pull back from cooking for him.

What are your thoughts? Please help!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 21,8:15 AM,
When men pull these stunts dear, you mirror their behavior. You never give more than you're receiving, and if he stops giving, then you pull back as well to level the playing field.

Anonymous said...

It's me again Anonymous Oct 21,8:15 AM,

Do I pull back with words or actions? Do I cancel/planned dates? I have some time off in the 2 weeks, he konws about my time off. What should I do?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 21, 8:15 AM,
Regretfully dear, I can't guide you step-by-step through every turn your relationship takes. The best I can do for you is provide you with the insights I've gained through the resources I've published here on this site - so that you can take what you've learned, make the right decisions for yourself and then put the necessary changes into action :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA... I am struglling to understand where did it go wrong or am I looking too much into it.... Been dating this guy for a little over 6 months. We've hit it off from the beginning. I have been going over his house, staying over alot, alot alot. We have been very initimate. I realized that hey I pay rent and need to stay at my place more. Now the issue I am running into is getting him to come over to my place. I've told him that I pay rent and the bills there so I need to spend more time at my place also. I feel that I have spoiled him by going over to his place and now he doesn't want to come to mines and makes excuses for his reason for not to. How should I handle this? What else should I say? I've been told that I don't want "outside distractions" to creep up in the relationship if I don't continue what has been started. I'm so confuse. Please help!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 22, 11:20 AM,
"How should I handle this?"

You should cease accommodating him by going to his place by simply not going there anymore.

"What else should I say?"

You shouldn't SAY anything, you should just DO something (not go over anymore). If you "talk, talk, talk" and get nowhere...it's time to ACTION. Actions speak louder than words and men understand the language of action.

If you stay away, and he genuinely cares for you, he'll miss you. And if he misses you, he'll want to see you. And if he wants to see you, he'll come to YOU. But none of that can happen if you don't cease going to his place all the time and instead, continue to accommodate him, ya' know?

Change starts with you ;-)

If you want people to react differently to you, then you need to change your actions towards them.

"I've been told that I don't want "outside distractions" to creep up in the relationship if I don't continue what has been started."

That sounds like a threat to me from him, which is very immature. It's meant to keep you under the guise of "fear" of losing him, and it's emotional manipulation.

If he can be that easily distracted by outside influences, and leave you that easily...is this many truly the RIGHT man for you anyway??

Anonymous said...

Mirror - I have been a bad girl. I met this guy from an online dating site. We met, had lunch, then made out a little bit, and I left. Our communication has gotten progressively more sexual and we have exchanged provocative photos. Very provocative. I know this is a big NO NO. This was a lapse in judgement and I now know that I have made a mistake. I am wondering if I can come back from this with him. Or should I cut off communication? I know he will continue to pursue me (via text, phone calls) and I would feel like a hypocrite if I never respond. I would not like if someone did the same to me. Any thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 3, 8:35 PM,
"I am wondering if I can come back from this with him."

Well, I won't lie dear - it's common knowledge that you only have one chance to make a first impression, ya' know? But then again, never say never. So I think the best you could do here is refuse to accommodate him with images and sexting, and instead, actually get to KNOW him - actually have useful conversations instead of sexting - and determine if he's even someone you WANT to be with.

Because men who do this online dear - are almost ALWAYS doing this with multiple women. So just know that, and instead of worrying what HE thinks about YOU - instead, focus on what YOU think about HIM and HIS actions, ya' know? Because his actions are saying a lot, so listen to them. Is this the type of man you really want to date? Are these the types of values you want your man to have? Does he do these things in and out of relationships, whether he's with someone or not? And if so, is that going to make you happy in the long run, worrying about who he's sexting with this month or week or day?

Think about what YOU want and need dear, instead of worrying about what HE thinks of YOU, ya' know?

AuthenticScorpio said...

Hi Mirror,

Thank you for your advice a while ago on my question about starting with friendship/liking one of your guy friends. So far, I’ve done well with focusing on living in the moment and enjoying the friendship and I attribute a lot of that through reading on your site and not having unrealistic expectations for casual dating, friendship, etc.

However, I did have one question that I’ve been debating with some of my friends. What is your take on if a guy friend who has always says he’s happy being single tries to kiss you? I ask this because my guy friend (who is also my coworker) is traveling internationally for work soon and suggested that it would be fun if I were to visit for part of that time since some of the costs would be taken care of. I feel that I’m completely capable of traveling there and enjoying the experience of seeing a new country, trying the cuisine, going to shows/events without viewing this as some monumental milestone and overanalyzing if this could this be a step towards a romantic relationship. However, there would likely be lots of 1:1 time there, and one of my friends said that if one night he were to try to kiss me - I should stop him and ask him what’s going on - didn’t you say that you’re not looking for a relationship right now?

Lol to me that seems kind of awkward, so I responded that what’s wrong with a kiss should that happen? But I think my mindset is one of a romcom that if a woman and man who are just friends should at one point happen to kiss, and then the woman continues to be her confident self and not start chasing the guy, that could potentially make him view her in a romantic light and perhaps have him reconsider if he’s really happy being single/being just friends or wanting something more.

So I’ve typed out this long-winded post to essentially ask - in your opinion, if a guy and girl are just friends and he attempts to kiss her, should she stop him and at that point ask him to clarify what he’s looking for? Should she just let the kiss happen? I guess we’re debating how strict to keep the friend boundary if a woman knows she might have romantic interests in one of her friends. Holding off on sex is a given, but guess I never thought of it in terms of any “romantic” physical gesture such as a kiss.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@AuthenticScorpio,
"if one night he were to try to kiss me - I should stop him and ask him what’s going on - didn’t you say that you’re not looking for a relationship right now?"

Well, just because he isn't seeking a relationship doesn't mean he won't attempt sex, ya' know? Just because he wants a kiss doesn't automatically mean he wants a relationship.

"if a guy and girl are just friends and he attempts to kiss her, should she stop him and at that point ask him to clarify what he’s looking for? Should she just let the kiss happen?"

If you want a relationship and he's already said he doesn't - then there's no point in dipping your toes into that territory with him, so I would stop the kiss if that's the case and simply refuse it, no explanation needed. If you're okay with a hookup or casual sex, then it'd be okay to accept the kiss.

But never fool yourself into thinking that just because you become sexually involved with a man it'll lead to a relationship - particularly with a guy who has already made it known he has no interest in a relationship. When men say that, that's what they mean - they don't want it, regardless of the circumstances. And sure, they will sleep with you under those circumstances - but afterwards - they'll move on anyway. So if it's a relationship you want, it's best to never venture into sexual territory at all...because if you do, you willingly place yourself at risk of being used, getting hurt and then watching him disappear....because he never wanted a relationship in the first place. So it's best to protect yourself from that from day one, ya' know? Otherwise, you risk letting it happen and then getting caught up in your emotions and getting hurt :-(

"we’re debating how strict to keep the friend boundary"

VERY strict. No "friends with benefits" - and yes, a kiss is a sexually related "benefit."

Robert Iorigami said...

HELLO, im a Taurus sun with scorpio moon..
I just wanted to share a little bit about me, and habing emotion so strong that I cant control sometimes and that makes me recoil back out, not because I don't like the girl is just that I do all the nice charming and waiting to connect that I do my part and when I get something even just a little NO HARD TO GET I start thinking that this girl is like that with every man that treats her nice, so I back out to see if she is really interested, because if she is not if I don't get reassurance that she likes me and not hugging or being over other guys that makes me think that the girl is respectful and is not just clinging to every guy she sees, once I see by my self that she is respectable and unique with her own thoughts and mind that makes go crazy for that girl, ill put her on a pedestal if after my disappearing act no contact she still talking to me and I see is only me, GIRL you would have a keeper right here, and if any one knows here what it is being a Taurus sun with scorpio moon would understand that at least for me is not easy to get intimacy and feel that is genuine if is not or I feel is not genuine ill back out again and I don't do it just because I want to is just I cant stop it once I feel unsecure with the girl, ill just cant stay no more the same.. hope it helps a little...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Robert,
Thank you for sharing that. It's not often that men come here and share their thoughts like that, so I thank you for that. I'd like to explore what you said a bit from a woman's point of view, just to create a sense of self-awareness, and I mean no disrespect by doing so. So bear with me here a moment, so that I can show you what this looks like to a woman and give you a bit of a different perspective on the matter.

"having emotion so strong that I cant control sometimes and that makes me recoil back out"

As I'm sure you know, most women admire fearlessness in a man. And most women also like it when a man is in touch with his emotions, rather than in fear of them and running from them in an effort to escape them. Because I mean, how can you have a happy, healthy, long term committed relationship. . .when you're afraid of your own emotions, ya' know? Fear will cause you to pull away again and again, and that destroys any efforts to have a healthy, long term committed relationship. Not to mention - it makes the woman think the man isn't interested or emotionally mature enough for a committed relationship when he's running away from it and her all the time.

"I do all the nice charming and waiting to connect that I do my part and when I get something even just a little NO HARD TO GET I start thinking that this girl is like that with every man that treats her nice"

It's a man's job to TRY - and it's a woman's job to initially say NO. Think about it - would you rather be with a woman who easily says YES to EVERY man that comes along? If that were the case, then wouldn't you label her an instant whore or "easy girl"?

A woman that's a real woman, meaning one who isn't living like a whore, is ALWAYS going to say no at first - because she's not a whore, ya' know? That's actually a dignified quality and it tells the man that this girl is not sleeping around with a bunch of other men. It tells the man that the woman RESPECTS herself and she's not going to give in easily to just any man that comes along - because she wants a man, a strong fearless man, to come along and prove to her that he's the RIGHT man for her - because she's a quality woman who saves herself for the right man and she respects herself so she doesn't easily give in to ALL men that come along.

"so I back out to see if she is really interested, because if she is not if I don't get reassurance that she likes me"

That's called "playing a game" - that's game playing my friend. Instead of you being true to yourself as a man and staying the course and being direct and upfront with the girl, you're behaving in an insecure manner and this is causing you to play a little game to seek reassurance for yourself - instead of just being CONFIDENT in the first place.

Not only that, but it's rude, it's disrespectful, it's hurtful, it makes you look like an insecure game player, and it also gives the woman the impression that you could care less about her.

And most importantly of all - do you realize what type of woman actually TOLERATES that little stunt? Are you aware of the type of woman that falls for that little game? The ONLY type of woman that speaks to a man after he's disrespectfully disappeared on her like that - is an insecure woman. A woman who doesn't think she deserves better treatment. A woman who is behaving desperate for a man's attention. A woman that is needy and clingy - so much so, that she'll tolerate poor treatment from a man - and come back for more of it.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Because even you, yourself, said "or I feel is not genuine ill back out again and I don't do it just because I want to is just I cant stop it once I feel unsecure with the girl." So the game playing continues. The poor treatment of the woman continues. And a very dysfunctional pattern starts to take place. . .because now, two insecure individuals that lack confidence are intertwined in a co-dependent pattern, feeding off of one another's behavior. And the relationship becomes one of turmoil and constant disruption with an "on again, off again" pattern that starts to play out - because fear and insecurity are now in control of the relationship.

And I'm sorry my friend, but any woman who tolerates that from a man - is a weak, insecure woman who doesn't love herself and doesn't think she can do any better. So instead, she eats crap and a lot of pain and hurt in an "on again, off again" relationship, instead of walking away like she should if she truly loved herself and was a confident woman.

Those types of relationships are NOT happy, healthy relationships. That's NOT what a normal relationship should look like my friend. That's a relationship that's full of drama, co-dependency, and a lot of negative emotions and pain. A healthy relationship consists of two people who are confident in who they are and what they have to offer the other individual. They are supportive of one another, they stick together, and they work through their problems by stopping to DEAL with them TOGETHER - instead of running away like fearful children every time something doesn't go their way.

"ill put her on a pedestal if after my disappearing act, no contact, she's still talking to me and I see is only me, GIRL you would have a keeper right here"

But you see - a QUALITY woman wouldn't be around when you came back after disappearing. A confident woman would NEVER tolerate that disrespectful treatment all because the man is insecure and playing a little game to reassure himself. A quality woman does NOT stick around for game playing and disappearing acts. A quality woman sees just how dysfunctional that situation is - and she removes herself from it.

As I stated above, the only woman who sticks around for that is an insecure one. The only women you're going to meet by behaving like this, are insecure women who will permit men to treat them poorly. I mean think about it - do you really want to date an insecure woman who lets men treat her like this and then comes back for more? You do realize that via the Law of Attraction, your behavior is creating the "like attracts like" phenomenon - meaning, you're behaving insecure and playing games. . .so you're attracting insecure women who tolerate game playing right back to you. It's a very dysfunctional cycle my friend - please, with all respect, seriously reconsider your approach here. You are not going to find a healthy relationship behaving like this.

There's a very unhealthy pattern taking place here my friend. Please seriously take a look at what you're doing:

"I back out to see if she is really interested. . .ill back out again and I don't do it just because I want to is just I cant stop it once I feel unsecure with the girl"

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

You're letting insecurity lead you right to insecure women - because "like attracts like" - and then a very unhealthy pattern of "on again, off again" begins playing out. You're not ending up with women who are "really interested" by doing this. You're ending up with insecure women who will tolerate poor treatment by doing this, and then you're entering into a very unhealthy pattern of co-dependency in doing so. You're insecure and playing games and coming and going a lot, and she's insecure and doesn't think she deserves better and she's addicted to the drama, so she sticks around for it to play out.

And that's not what a healthy relationship looks like my friend. All that is, is two insecure people playing games and behaving fearfully and hurting each other tremendously in the process and doing a lot of emotional damage. What's truly taking place here is that two very needy people are feeding off one another. Meaning, you're needy of reassurance in order to feel secure and confident in yourself, and the woman you're attracting is also needy - of attention, your attention - in order for her to feel good about herself. And when two people depend on each other to fulfill negative needs like that, instead of dealing with and working through their own "stuff" themselves in a healthy manner, it becomes a negative "co-dependent" relationship - with each party depending on the other to give them the confidence that they otherwise lack on their own, and a very destructive pattern then begins to play out in their relationship, "on again, off again," and emotional damage takes place that is self-defeating and keeps the two locked into a negative cycle.

Again, I mean no disrespect. I'm glad you contributed here and brought this up, because I do feel that nowadays, a lot of people don't really even know they're behaving in an unhealthy manner, and they don't even know what a healthy relationship looks like - because they don't have an example of one in their life to compare with, and they have no one around to guide them otherwise. I believe a lot of people nowadays lack self-awareness and don't realize just how destructive their behavior is to themselves and others.

Don't let fear and insecurity guide you my friend. Stand tall, stand strong, be fearless, be honorable - be CONFIDENT in YOURSELF - and that will lead you to a happy, healthy relationship.

Think about it. Again, I mean no disrespect - just some food for thought.

Anonymous said...

Love the advice you've been giving so far! I wish I had stumbled on this site sooner! I need to know if I did the right thing here: I reconnected (via email) with this guy I met online about a year ago. I thought nothing of it at the time. I just figured since I really liked the guy, I should just go for it. He replied within a day or so and gave me his number telling me to "give him a sometime". I replied with my number and told him to call me if he wanted. I made no contact with him after that and neither did he until he decides to text me 10 months later! What kills me to this day is that I actually replied to his text. What can I say, curiosity got the better of me. We had a full length conversation (all by text) where he kept insisting that we meet up before the end of 2014 and that we, or more so I, should keep the lines of communication open before we meet face to face.. After that initial text, he text me again one week later with a simple "Good morning, how are you?" but I didn't reply this time around and I haven't heard from him since (its been almost 3 months now). I am so confused by all this. What was his plan? What was his motive? I never anticipated hearing from him ever again but then he pops up almost a year later! Did I do the right thing here by not entertaining him a second time? For some reason I question my decision everyday....

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 3, 11:45 PM,
"I am so confused by all this. What was his plan? What was his motive?"

He had no plan - he was somewhat being an opportunist is all. And by that I mean - this is what tends to happen when women pursue men - the woman has no clue if the man is genuinely interested or whether he's simply taking advantage of the opportunity the woman presents. If a man who isn't genuinely interested is pursued by the woman, he WILL take advantage of the opportunity, or at least attempt to, and then disappear. . .because he wasn't genuinely interested in the first place :-(

That's why it's ALWAYS best to only devote your time to men who pursue YOU - because they're the genuinely interested ones, and you already know this because THEY are pursuing YOU. That doesn't mean a relationship will come of it, but it does mean less of your time will be wasted on men who are simply looking to attempt to take advantage of someone and not stick around afterwards.

"I never anticipated hearing from him ever again but then he pops up almost a year later!"

He was swinging around again to see if the "opportunity" still existed, ya' know?

"Did I do the right thing here by not entertaining him a second time?"

Definitely. Because men who are genuinely interested in getting to know you - PURSUE YOU. If a man isn't pursuing you, then he's not really worth your time, because he's already signaling that he's not all that interested, ya' know?

AuthenticScorpio said...

Hi Mirror,

I’ve written here a few times about a male coworker who I now consider a close friend. At this point, I’m focusing on further developing our friendship and getting to know each other - and over the past few months, I’ve seen progressions moving towards that. That being said, as our friendship has developed, I’ve had a romantic interest develop as well, but through reading your blog, I’m working to view things through the friendship lens only (I have slip ups here and there, but for the most part I’ve remained calm, cool and collected in front of him).

Here’s where I have some insecurities. My team is very tight knit (which I find annoying at times lol) and there happens to be another female coworker that he and I are friends with as well. The two of them were friends 6 months or so before he met me, and they’ve always mentioned that they have an older sister/younger brother dynamic. She’s in her later 20s while he and I are closer to our mid-20s. What bothers me sometimes is that he seems to compare the two of us. He’s mentioned before that she tends to be bossy, complains a lot and nags/overshares/overtalks. I’d mentioned once before that I wanted to take a bus home to visit my family and he told me to hold off on buying a ticket and let’s make it a road trip together instead. During that trip he mentioned how he’d never be able to do this with our other friend because she doesn’t know how to be carefree and appreciative.

So over these past few months he and I have grown closer. And now I think she’s started to take notice. When he and I ride together to a group dinner, she’ll ask why we didn’t invite her. Or if he and I happen to be out and about and she calls, she’ll respond with “oh, guess you guys can’t invite me.” It seems awkward, honestly. She’s told him multiple times that she views him as a little brother, but yet it seems that she’s trying to insert herself here and there. Conversely, this guy is a flirt, so when we’re out, sometimes he’ll dance with both of us and be overly playful/affectionate with both her and I, and she’s the type that’s always seeking attention. So she’ll say that she doesn’t like how her outfit looks and he’ll assure her that she looks nice, and I try to hide that I’m rolling my eyes at this exchange lol. Sometimes it makes me wonder if he has feelings for her and maybe he and I are only hanging out because she’s placed him in the friend zone. That if she decided to give him a chance, and she learned to not be so bossy and demanding/controlling and see that he’s a great guy, then he would take her over me.

AuthenticScorpio said...

(continued)
Obviously I know that these thoughts are coming from insecurity, and he and I are just friends so therefore this shouldn’t be an issue. However, I do see potential for our friendship to develop to a romantic relationship in the future. So in terms of her presence and all of us sometimes hanging out as a threesome, whether that be through her inviting herself along or him inviting her - I’m wonder if this is a case where some of the aforementioned strategies come into play like me falling balling back in order to determine his interest. I make him work to hang out with me whereas she's always calling to see where he's at (at least from what I can see). I’ve even once recommended that the two of them just go to dinner by themselves and I’ll bow out and they both respond in protest with him saying that it’s been a hard week and he wants his two closest friends to join. I’ve mentioned here before that he and I are taking an international trip together in about a month. She was planning to visit as well maybe a few weeks after the time that I’m there, but then once she heard when I was going, she said maybe she should go when I was going so that we can all go as a group. It took everything in me not to show how annoyed I was. But he later let me know she eventually ended up deciding to pick different dates or she may not end up going at all.

So I’m trying to find the most logical way to look at this. I know that if I overreact in these situations or start to question him about the nature of their relationship, I’ll look “crazy.” And I'm refraining from asking him where he sees this going because I know that if a man wants a relationship, he'll ask for one, and until that point it's best to just go with the flow. Since he and I are just friends, is it odd that he’ll mention her to me sometimes and note my positives to her negatives? We talk about our other friends to, but I do seem to notice when the topic of convo tends to land on her. Could he potentially want her but since they’re “brother and sister,” he’s hanging out with me instead as a consolation? We’ve not had sex and over the past 3 months, he’s done a lot of gentlemanly gestures to show that he cares about me and has said that I’m now his closest friend in the office. We literally went from never speaking to now hanging out all the time and getting to know each other, so I see that as a good sign and don’t want to rush things. But a part of me wonders if I’m his second choice. I don’t chase him and let him initiate all get togethers - which has been working. He’ll call and ask me and out and I’ll say yes and submit. But if this other girl were to start saying yes to him (now that she seems to be more interested in joining us), I’m wondering if his and our friendship would have even began in the first place. Even though I've seen a progression, should I stop looking at the potential upside for this because he could potentially have feelings for both of us?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Authentic Scorpio,
"should I stop looking at the potential upside for this because he could potentially have feelings for both of us?"

Well, right now this is all just speculation. Meaning, speculating about how things MIGHT be based on the fact that a relationship MIGHT come out of this. It's a lot of energy spent on something that isn't even a reality right now, ya' know? As a result, I would remain confident in who I am and I wouldn't read anything more into it - until it actually becomes more.

He's referring to both of you as friends right now. And until he starts referring to one of you as something more than friends, none of this will matter. I wouldn't worry about him making comparisons at this point, because again you're only friends, and I wouldn't worry about her interjecting herself, because again you're only friends.

You can't project romantic circumstances, possible feelings and outcomes onto a situation that isn't yet romantic, ya' know?

If it turns romantic and these things continue, then at that time these issues may be worth giving some thought to. But until that happens, I wouldn't apply potential, possible romantic outcomes to a friends only situation. If he wanted to be with her romantically - he would be with her. Obviously that isn't the case, and as a result, it's pointless to apply any possible romantic scenarios. For now, you guys are all only friends. So treat it that way, look at it that way, remain confident in that way - and then simply observe. Because the reality is that the situation may NEVER turn romantic with him and either one of you - and all this speculation will never come into play anyway, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

I love your advice, I am a widow of 42,, cancerian,with two kids, and have met a taurean , on an online dating site, he has custody of his four kids, I know he is for me, instinctively, he opened up to me, about a lot of personal things, and we both fell for each other, he has flaked out of arranging to meet me, but I can understand that is one of a Taurus traits now, and he has gone for a day or two but has come back again, with good hopes for us, I know he believes I am too good for someone like him , genuinely, he has been hurt very badly also, I know, I moved onto ringing him, and it was nice, it was so good to hear he sounded like he looked, hot! And we got on well, but I think it has scared him now, that I am real, and also he had a friend over, which seems to have done me no favours! he has now gone AWOL, I have been nice in my last text to him, no demands, no pressure, and I am prepared to wait on him, cos I think he is the one, I know he has not moved on,to another girl, cos he rarely uses the dating site, do u think he will come back to me, or should I try and forget him, I don't think I could bear much more hurt in my life, I have suffferd so much these last few years, but I feel he is really special, please advise me, thank you,

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 4, 6:47 PM,
Well dear, this needs a bit of exploration. And by that, I mean this. . .

Here's the "illusion" (what's not real or fact and only what exists in the mind):

"I know he is for me. . .we both fell for each other. . .he is the one. . .he has not moved on to another girl"

And here's the "reality" (what is real and what is fact and what exists in the real world):

The reality is that you don't know if he's for you or not - because you've never even met him. And you don't know if he's fallen for you - because you've never even met him. And you don't know if he's the one - because you've never even met him. And you don't know if he's moved onto another girl or not - because online dating is not the only place that people meet. Beyond that, you don't even know if he already HAS a girl - or a wife - and that's the reason he's never agreed to meet you.

People can TELL you whatever they want, talk is cheap. But ACTIONS (or lack thereof) tell the true tale. And the biggest warning sign that someone is not who they've portrayed themselves to be or is not an honest person is when their words do not align with their actions.

If a guy is for you, and he's fallen for you, and he thinks you're the one, and he has no other woman in his life. . .his ACTIONS will fall in line with those words - and he will meet you. Not only will he meet you, he'll phone you regularly, he'll make time for you, he'll ask you on dates regularly, he'll want to spend lots of time with you and he'll want to treat you special and do nice things for you. . .so that no other man comes along to steal you away from him.

If those things are not taking place, then his words mean nothing.

"do u think he will come back to me, or should I try and forget him"

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested is if HE pursues HER. No one can predict if he'll return and if you want to know if he's serious or not, you'll have to remain patient and observe his actions.

"I am prepared to wait on him"

Why? Why commit yourself to a man that hasn't committed himself to you? Why commit yourself to a total stranger who you've never even met and don't even know if you can trust? I do not suggest doing that. You will waste precious time and could miss other opportunities that actually may be meant for you.

Additionally, if a man knows you're sitting around waiting on him or he can sense that you are, and that there are no other men in your life and there's no competition for him, and that this is going to be super easy. . .he will begin to take you for granted not to mention lack respect for you. Men are competitive by nature, hence their love of sports. They love a challenge. They love to "win" things. They find this process enjoyable and exciting. By contrast, when something's a "sure thing," nine times out of ten, they take that for granted, don't value it as highly as the things they actually have to work for, lack respect for it, don't take it seriously, find it boring and not exciting, and treat it as something temporary. . .until something more challenging and exciting comes along.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So I do not suggest waiting on this man or letting him sense that you are. Instead, I suggest that you continue to move forward, exploring your options and meeting new people. If he wants you, he knows where to find you. And if he's genuinely interested, he'll come claim you. But waiting on him isn't going to compel him to take any action at all. Because if he knows it's a "sure thing" - he also knows he doesn't have to do a single thing to make it happen. Because when you know someone is sitting there waiting on you, you also know that they're not going anywhere, whether you do anything or not.

When you reassure someone that you're there waiting on them - it's the quickest way to ensure that they'll take you for granted and treat you poorly. As a result, I don't suggest doing that.

North America 2013 said...

Hi Mirror, I am writing after a long time. I had posted my experience with a colleague in September,2013 and Oct15th and 23rd in 2013. We had no contact after Oct. I met him again in a team meeting in May 2014. We got to know we both are taureans at this meeting. I am May 1st and he is May 7th. That's some coincidence but explains why we think alike most of the time. As always he was very friendly,playful and put his arm around me couple of times lightly touching my shoulder. He sat next to me during team dinner. I was changing roles in the organisation and he told me he respects me and his respect increased more because I opted to take that new role. After dinner, we all got together in a conference and everyone started singing. He is a singer and he was singing all romantic songs looking at me. At one point, he told me he is just the same as I am and we are so close yet so far. I didn't know how to react. Next day when we were leaving he said safe flight and left. After that no contact. I left the organization in Sept,2014. He called me on my last day and wished. I thought we would never be in touch again. He is connected to me on a professional network. There is an option to endorse for skills on that site and he keeps endorsing me . He did that in Oct and Nov. May be it is his way of keeping in touch. I just endorse him back after few hours. No mails/messages. Last week he endorsed me on that professional site and that day I got to know that I was traveling to his city for a training. So I dropped him a note on that website saying I am in his city. He immediately wrote back asking to meet. I had finished my training on sat day and met him sat day afternoon. He followed up on Friday night with an email confirming the time to meet on sat day. He came to my hotel to pick me up . He took me for dinner and we had a nice time catching up . We both are playful and It always feels like we were never apart all these days. He touched me a couple of times on my back. This time he was asking personal questions about how many siblings I have etc. Around 7.30in the evening, he said we will go to his place and he wanted to sing a couple of songs for me. I was surprised because as a taurean myself, I treat home as a very personal space and would never invite someone home unless I am really comfortable with the person. I went to his place. He showed me around his place. He is a good singer and it was great fun listening to him singing all those songs to me. Most of them were romantic songs. He was a thorough gentleman though. I had a great time. I went with the intent of leaving in half hour but spent 3 hours at his place. Before leaving I was telling him how much fun I had and he was smiling and he gently put his hand on my back. He had this happy smile on his face throughout the evening. He dropped me back to my hotel and said we should do it again. He was saying he would sing the songs, record them and send them to me. He also said he would want to come to my city to visit me. I smiled and said he should visit. I was leaving his city next day. I texted from the airport saying I had good fun and bye. He texted immediately back saying it was lot of fun and we should do it again.

It is exactly a week since I met him. Before I met him, I thought it would just be meeting an old colleague. But it turned out to be a date without calling it a date. He planned the afternoon and paid for everything though I offered to pay. I realized I really like him a lot and his behavior says that he likes me too but I don’t know whether this would progress.

Should I just wait and see whether he would make an attempt to keep in touch? I guess I have no other option but to observe. Since he is a taurean, I am curious to know what is your view?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@North America 2013,
"Should I just wait and see whether he would make an attempt to keep in touch?"

Yes - the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested in her romantically - is to see if HE pursues HER.

This piece written by a man can shed some light: http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

North America 2013 said...

Thanks MOA for the great advice as always. I am already feeling silly about informing him that I would be in his city and also texting him on sunday before leaving. Was that a wrong move? I am asking so that I can learn and not repeat next time.

Also if he endorses me again on that professional site (where we are connected), should I endorse him back or just ignore? I was reading up on etiquette for that professional site and it says that you should either send a thank you email or simply endorse back. I am a bit confused here on how to react if such a situation arises.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@North America 2013,
"I am already feeling silly about informing him that I would be in his city and also texting him on sunday before leaving. Was that a wrong move?"

Well don't feel silly, we've all been there. But it does equate to asking for a date more or less, and then feeling obliged to answer or report to him afterwards, which isn't necessary. But like I said, we've all been there. Moving forward, steer clear of "initiating" is all, because if you do, you never know if the guy is genuinely interested or simply being nice and polite and going along with things :-)

"if he endorses me again on that professional site (where we are connected), should I endorse him back or just ignore?"

I wouldn't bother. I get those and don't bother and the folks I've endorsed don't immediately jump on endorsing me back or endorsing in return at all. Those are only guidelines that the site attempts to instill into people to create "engagement" and it's not "law" that their suggestions must be followed.

North Amercia 2013 said...

Thanks Mirror. We learn something new everyday. Don't we :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, thanks for replying, its cancerian widow,No i know that there is no woman, she left him and kids to it and moved on to having another family, and he does all the child rearing himself ,he detests her,so i am guessing that trusting someone is a big issue with him, he has been on his own seven years, i am four alone, his kids are young like my own are,and i understand how time consuming that is, and he does a lot of sporting activities with them, so spare time is limited, i know it sounds like i am making excuses for that, but i know how hard that can be when u are in that position myself, so thats what i mean about being patient for him, i just have an instinct about him ,and i think i am a fairly good judge of character, so i am trusting my intuition on him, my deceased partner was a taurean also, and we were together 18 years, irrelevant to this situation, i know. ! He is also from a different social background from me.. i mean he has had harder life experiences. and i think he feels it makes him a bit inferior to me.,that he wont be liked by my circles, but we clicked. ,because i am quite ordinary too. anyway ,I know he feels he has totally let down his defences to me by the things we have discussed,and i know how deep of a man that he really is, and he has now retreated totally from me. he told me even that he was nervous to meet up with me, and he could've easily used me, if his intentions weren't sincere. Anyway, i am sticking to the no contact rule. Day 13. and it is hard, but i am getting stronger each day, that i can stick it .i am hoping to stick it out to day 30, He knew i talked to other men on the dating site,so once the conversations between me and him had been deleted, i deleted myself from the site this week , i dont think he will make contact with me though, he is stubborn willed, and is probably afraid of change in his life ,so i do think if i want this to go anywhere i will have to push him a little,by making contact with him i know, its not what i should be doing but, im not interested in going out on shallow dates with others men, thats just the way i am.but i do go out and socialise , and i know he can c i am moving on with my life from my facebook photos, so its not appearing to him that i am sitting waiting on him, either. This is all so new to me, all this dating game again, as i havent done this since i was a teenager,and i feel i havent a clue how men think, so this site is a godsend to me. to try and make some sense of all this relationship drama!! thank u, again,Have u any more advice for me:)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,
I've been single for about 1 year after a 15 yr relationship so I'm learning the ropes again. About 6 months ago I ran into a guy I briefly dated as a teen. A month later I received a text from him saying 'just dropping a hello. Hope you're well.' Even though it didn't really invite a reply, I replied and we texted for about 2 wks. At one point he said 'we should go for a drink' but never made an effort to actually set something up. I didn't reply to his last text and then I never heard from him again.

So last week I receive another 'just dropping a hello and hope you are well' texts. I haven't replied.

To clarify my feelings/objective: I would go out with him if he asked. I like him.

What does his text mean and how should I handle? Am I right to not respond?

Anonymous said...

I wanted to leave a comment on the disappearing reappearing man but comments are full. A man I was seeing pretty casually just disappeared on me. I definitely had something to do with it. I liked him from the beginning because it was probably the funnest first date I ever had. After that he would always pursue but it would be last min. Inviting me to meet up with him and his cousins or friends at a restaurant etc. I was trying to follow the rules and not accept last min invites. Anyways I slept with him the 3rd time I hung out with him. And once more after that. I noticed that I had to become the pursuer because anytime he initiated contact with me I would blow him off due to it being last minute. He went out of the country for the new year for a couple weeks and I never heard from him when he got back. I was dissapointed but stayed strong. A couple weeks later I was at dinner with some mutual friends and he showed up. He tried talking to me and acting like it wasnt a big deal he never called. I called him out on it and he said it was because he got insecure and he figured I would have a new guy already. He bought me flowers that night and was trying to be extra sweet. I ended up going home with him and sleeping with him. The following evening he called me and said he had just got done with family dinner and wanted to be with me. I declined and said I was busy bc I didnt like the idea of going over late night. After that I initated plans with him a few days later, we did a double date and when we went back to his house he was under the influence and said something along the lines of asking me to be his gf. I was a little thrown off because I didn't feel it was the appropriate time so I said not when you ask me like this. After that he would only text me late at night to come over. I told him no but that I could do something in a couple days and he agreed to dinner. Then canceled on me the day before bc he said he had a work dinner and that maybe we could hang after. I wrote back and said that was fine and to let me know another day that worked. He didn't respond. I was starting to feel like I was pushing him away by turning down plans. So I initated contact again. He invited me out of Town and we went on an overnight trip. At dinner he proceeded to tell me that he was only sleeping with me. Everything was great and fun and after that trip I didn't hear from him for a couple days so I decided to send a thank u. He responded and said he had a great time as well. That week was valentines and I waited to hear from him but didn't. I ended up going out with some friends and drinking too much and texting him. He replied but I fell asleep. The next day I apologized for the late text and decided to confront him to figure out why he didn't contact me. He obviously didn't like that bc I got no reply. I waited a week and then sent him one last txt just basically saying I know I probably scared him off but I just got insecure and that I liked him and either way I didn't want things to be weird between us. He responded saying he was out of town working and asked to catch up in a few days. I said sure. That was a week ago and he never followed up. Question is did I completely drop the ball on this? I don't know what to do to fix this mess bc we definitely had a connection. I just don't understand why he would volunteer info about not sleeping with anyone else and then blow me off. Is it a lost cause??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 2, 4:10 AM,
"did I completely drop the ball on this?"

Nope - HE blew it as a man.

"I just don't understand why he would volunteer info about not sleeping with anyone else and then blow me off. Is it a lost cause??"

That's what insecure men tend to do, and this is generally what dating an insecure man does to a woman. Just about everything you've described here, I dedicated an entire article to:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html

Insecure individuals come in all shapes sizes, looks, backgrounds, etc. And yes, insecurity is a part of the human condition. However, when someone, as this man does, lets his insecurities affect his behavior to this degree - no one can help them but themselves. Because without the confidence to do what a man is naturally intended to do via the Laws of Mother Nature. . .you end up with a role reversal (you pursuing, him submitting) that leaves the woman exhausted, questioning herself, neglected and eventually very unhappy in the situation.

I think reading the article at the link above will help.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 1, 5:51 PM,
Sounds to me like this guy might not be looking for a date, he may be looking for a text buddy instead. He hasn't picked up the phone and called, he's let conversations drop for days after texting for two weeks straight, reappears after with the same old line, and in all that texting he's never asked for a date.

I'm not sure how much you've been able to verify about what he's told you about his current situation, but he could possibly be involved with someone, which could also explain why he's not moving things forward as well. If you respond to him again in the future and it ends up being an exact repeat of the same process, then I'd probably move on. Because at that point, it would be apparent that he either doesn't want to date, or is already involved with someone and this is just him speaking casually to an old friend and it's not anything romantic, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
I'd like to get your opinions on my situation. There's this guy at work I became friend with. Many of my colleagues think that he liked me because he would often asked me to go on coffee breaks, or when he says something I don't laugh at, he would ask why I'm unhappy. It seems like my opinion matters to him. From my side, it's not that I'm interested or not, I don't know him that much: in a group, he always talks nonsense, makes disgusting jokes. I can feel that he's still a bit immature and bit that confident. But the few times we talked on a one on one, i had deeper conversation and I could sense how much he loved his sisters, and that he really wand to achieved things that are meaningful to him. He's a touching person. A week ago he texted me and asked me to go on a walk in the afternoon (it was the first time he wanted to see me outside work). I didn't take it as a date , but more as an opportunity to hang out and know him better. We spent such a beautiful afternoon, Mirror. He took pictures of us, he told me about him, asked about me. He requested my help to get some flowers for his sister's birthday. He took me to his place then, introduced me to his family, and then we were in his room and he played the guitar, sang, showed me some pictures of his recent holidays. His parents asked me to stay for dinner, which I wasn't sure. And he told me that we would certainly get a lot of questions about our relationship status. So I decided not to stay. He walked me to the station and stayed until the train arrived. There he asked how long I was planning to stay in the country, and how many babies I wanted. And he even joked that we were on the same page. I know this type if discussion sounds crazy but he already told some male colleagues that he's looking for a girlfriend (not a booty call) and he always plans long term with girls. I heard that for the last 10 years had been involved in two long relationships. When the train came, I told him that I had a great time and we kissed on the cheek (as we usually do). Since then he's been acting weird at work. He hasn't asked me for coffee anymore. He came to my office three days ago to go for coffee and as the rest of my team was not around, he left (whereas usually he would go just with me). He doesn't come to talk to me anymore. He now use one of my male colleague as a contact point to my team (whereas beforehand I was the contact point). At the canteen, he avoids sitting in front of me. There's clearly some awkwardness between us. I can understand that he may have not liked our afternoon (which I did unfortunately) but it makes me sad to see that he is rejecting our friendship. Why does he behave this way?? Shall I try to talk to him?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 7, 6:28 PM,
"Why does he behave this way?"

Because men who are "still a bit immature. . .talks nonsense, makes disgusting jokes" tend to be insecure. And insecure men tend to act like this, so that they trigger YOUR insecurities, make you question yourself, and then wait to see if you'll feel so insecure that you'll chase them and hand over power to them, as explained in this article here:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html

"Shall I try to talk to him?"

You're free to do as you please dear, but I wouldn't do that - because it's all only TALK, and talk is cheap. It's ACTIONS that truly tell the tale. You can talk to him, but he may only lie to you. You can talk to him and he can tell you all the things he told you the day he was with you, and then he can turn around and do something completely different, as he's doing right now. Therefore, talks are pointless and all they do is provide reassurance that you're sitting around waiting for something to happen. And once insecure men receive that reassurance, they tend to act out and act up even more (for more of that type of attention, and to trigger your insecurities so that they hold the power).

You're not going to be able to change this man. Instead, you have to accept him for who he is and OBSERVE his ACTIONS. If he's truly interested and he's a gentleman, he'll do the right thing. If he wasn't serious and he was only playing games to get a reaction from you and your attention, then he'll continue to behave strangely and act up because insecure, immature men tend to be "game players" and like to tinker with the emotions of others for their own amusement.

So my suggestion would be to do nothing, let your silence speak for you, and then sit back and observe his actions. . .because if you listen and watch closely, they'll tell you everything you need to know ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 9, 11:27 AM,
"My problem is how do I end things with him? Just stop replying to his messages abruptly or politely tell him that I won't be seeing him again?"

That's up to you. But if you think he's simply stringing you along anyway, then it won't matter either way. And truthfully, cutting him off cold turkey is probably the better route for YOU to take, since you admit you have trouble controlling your behavior.

"Isn't his what we criticise men for doing to us?"

Men who claim to care about us - yes. But if this guy isn't claiming he cares for you, it won't matter to him either way, ya' know?

The choice is yours dear. If it were me, I'd use NC for MYSELF, so that I assure I get through it intact and without emotional disruption :-)

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA: I've been on this morning re-reading all of your articles and messages, thank-you for everything! I am feeling stronger with my decisions now. I have connected with someone online that I feel could possibly be something. However, I am not thrilled that he has only been texting me; regularly twice a week, sending nice pictures to me, as he says that he is on vacation.

However, it's been going on for two weeks now and he has not picked up the phone for a real voice to voice conversation. I really don't know anything about him. Last contact was Friday night, when he texted to say hi and say he was in another state. I did not respond. I just feel a bit fed up, actually. As I'm writing this, I almost feel like I'm answering my own question.. I don't feel particularly motivated to text him to say, hi, even now, two days later.

Do you think I'm right to just ignore him for now when he texts? I want a real conversation, but he has to initiate it. thank-you

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 26, 10:06 AM,
"Do you think I'm right to just ignore him for now when he texts?"

You're free to do whatever you like dear. If his lack of amping things up is causing you to lose interest, that's understandable and you're free to signal that. It's actually quite safe to do because when you meet these men who only text, never call, and never ask you out - the ones that are looking for a text pal only - they're generally not worth your time for serious consideration anyway. Because they never really bother to take things to the next level, so it's not worth getting hung up on them.

Confused Gemini said...

Hi Mirror, I'm back again in need of your advice. I went out with a man I met online yesterday (2nd date) and it was great. He planned the entire outing (short road trip to a city not far from where we live, walk by a waterfront, dinner afterwards...).
Things were going well until he pulled out his cell phone to check the time and decided to show me the "heart" he had just received from someone on the dating site we met on. I replied playfully 'Well, you'd better take a good care of that heart, or else the person who sent it to you won't be happy".

On our way back home, as we were listening to music, I asked him how he had come to know one particular artist. His answer was 'I dated a lot of women from the artitst's country". He said that with a smile and kept looking at me. I smiled back and said "Good for you". He kept looking at me with the same smile and I was like "What?" with a smile. He said "Nothing".

I know it's still early but I like talking to him, we have interesting debates and the same passion for learning, arts... He is a smart guy and intelligence turns me on. My question however is WHY would he deliberately bring up other women?! What's the proper way to handle this in the future MOA? Is this a red flag? Thanks so much for your help.

Confused Gemini

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Confused Gemini,
"WHY would he deliberately bring up other women?"

Because most likely, he's a "player" (game player) and that is a very well-known tactic for bringing a woman's insecurities to the surface (to make her easier sexual prey for the man). In the PUA community (pick up artist's), it's referred to as a "Neg" (negative comment):

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html

He was waiting for you reaction, which is why he held your gaze after throwing other women in your face a second time, and the reaction he expected was to see you squirm (to see you become anxious and begin to break down, thereby making you "easier" for him to prey upon, because you now feel less "valuable" to him, and as if you have to compete for his attentions).

"What's the proper way to handle this in the future MOA?"

Mirror him, and throw similar comments right back at him. If he shows you hearts he's receiving on the site, show him the same, or all the emails you're receiving. If he mentions about how many women he's dated, don't signal to him that you've dated a million men LOL - but do signal to him that OTHER men are ALSO vying for YOUR attention as well.

"Is this a red flag?"

Sorry to say, but yea, it is. And the reason is because it's a known PUA tactic, as referenced above. It signals that he's aware of the PUA community, and that he's making use of some of their hurtful tactics. It also signals that if you continue to date him, he will most likely be throwing insults and "negs" your way regularly in an attempt to push your buttons, gauge your reaction, try to make you anxious and try to bring your insecurities to the surface - to make it "easier" for him to have his way with you. (PUA's know that when women don't feel good about themselves, they become "desperate" for male attention and therefore, "easier" sexual targets.) So just keep in mind, dating him might require you to constantly fend off slight insults and jabs from him regularly :-(

Confused Gemini said...

MOA, I read the article you recommended and boy, was I MAD AS HELL. I can't believe this SOB had the nerve to do this to me! Now that I think about it, he went from being extremely nice to (barely) nice. Subtle disrespectful acts (i.e. not capitalizing the first words in his sentences in his text messages when he was so prim and proper at the beginning...), strange comments (telling me I was "too serious), etc. It's the combination of "sweet and sour" that makes this behavior so confusing and so effective at the same time, because we ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt to these sick bastards.

My initial reaction was to just walk away but I changed my mind. I'm going to give him a taste of his own medecine (if he asks for a 3rd date) and will report back to you.

Thanks so much for your invaluable advice, MOA. You're my hero.

Anonymous said...

Hi, absolutely brilliant blog with spot on, great advice-I've been reading your articles & corresponding replies for 2ish weeks now, & like others wish I'd have found this website (years) sooner.

I would be really, really grateful if you could give your thoughts/comments on my situation. I realise you do this in your own time & don't get paid, so definitely no rush (I'm practicing patience here)! Also, apologies as I know this is long...

A friend introduced me to another of hers-she was chatting to him on the phone whilst I was with her & being tipsy passed the phone to me before heading off to bed. We hit it off-talked for a couple of hours. 'He' called 'me' every night for the following 2 weeks usually for an hour or 2. ‘He’ also always initiated texts with 'me' every day & usually for large parts of the day too. During these text/phone conversations we really made each other laugh. He even called me (for two hours) whilst on a night out with the lads-standing outside the pub in the cold with them yelling at him to get off the phone.

We met up after a week and a half of first speaking & had a brilliant time...he stayed over at mine (don't waste your time commenting on that last sentence, because I already know I'm an idiot) however...no sex & I made it clear to him not to expect any...he told me he respected me & wanted to show me this by not having sex–he said ‘you’re the boss’ where this is concerned & he would wait for me until I was ready.

Next morning he was in no rush to leave, told me he had a brilliant time & asked how I felt about 'giving us a go' (by this I took it to mean that he wanted for us not to be seeing other people) I told him I would like to (give us a go).

Within 15 minutes of leaving he text me saying that he hoped I had had as good a time as he & I replied that I had. Over the next four or so weeks whenever we met (about 8 times in total) we had so much fun. I should admit that we did have sex on the 2nd date...he was still more than willing to wait & I take full responsibility here for not showing more self-control especially as he had continued to be very reassuring that he was perfectly happy to wait until I was sure. Next day, he necessarily left for work but text me half an hour later to say he hoped that I was ok with 'what we had done that night' & that he had had an amazing time.

Before leaving he would always ask when he was going to see me again & before I could answer would make a suggestion (he works shifts that rotate on a weekly basis & has a child he sees regularly)...he did cancel plans to meet me approximately 3 times over a 4 week period...his excuse being he was ‘tired’ but on each occasion he made a suggestion for a different day which I always accepted (& perhaps should not have done with hindsight!).

Then...he had in advance arranged to see me on a Friday evening but text me on the Friday day to cancel (excuse: feeling unwell), I replied that if he was too tired then he was too tired; however, on this occasion he didn't offer a different day & I didn’t ask him...Whilst we were texting the following day (this being the weekend) I asked if I would be seeing him that day instead of yesterday...he said 'I'll whatsapp you a pic then you can see me all day'! F-UMING! I said 'don't bother I know what you look like'...he continued texting me throughout the day...my answers were short, 'yes', 'no' type of thing.

Anonymous said...

cont...He asked me 3 times what was wrong; initially I ignored the question, then answered 'I'm OK' & the third time told him it was nothing I wanted to discuss by text. He pursued it 'what does that mean?', I said ‘some things shouldn’t be discussed by text’ and that I was 'confused'...he said '...that sounds like something to do with me, let’s just leave it there'. I didn't really know how to take that but(!) immediately telephoned him (which was also the first [& last] time ever); guess what...haha – he didn’t pick up - I immediately deleted his texts/telephone number to take away temptation!

The following day (Sunday) he text me as 'normal' & I was normal back. On the Monday he text me as normal, I replied initially normally...but then text (yuck) 'am I making you unhappy?' His reply, 'why would you ask me that?' My reply; 'I don't really know how to answer that other than to say that the events of the weekend have made me question whether I am making you unhappy...I'm not attacking you, please try to see this from my point of view'. He replied 'I just wanted to do nothing all weekend, it wasn't you x'. I said 'ok...thank you for the explanation'. Texts continued as normal & in the evening he asked if we could meet the following evening which I agreed to. We had a brilliant, fun time. He asked me four times during the evening & when we woke the next morning to take that day off work (as he had most of the day off) & I told him 'no chance'. Before he left he said 'when am I seeing you again?' Before I could answer he said 'Friday evening?' (we both knew he wouldn’t finish work until 9.00pm but we both had the following day off). I agreed.

Friday day, I initiated texting him (for the first time) something general & he replied as normal...then I initiated this a couple of hours later '...sorry to have to ask...am I seeing you tonight?' He replied 'not tonight hun I'm working, why are you sorry?' I replied 'I feel as though I’m pestering you', he said 'nah, It's ok, I'm used to you pestering me', my reply (eeeeekkkkkk - as I say...wish I'd have come here sooner) 'so when am I seeing you again...you walked straight into that'! His reply, 'don't know yet babe, working on Sunday, seeing child on Saturday'. My reply (damn, damn, damn) 'Ok, I won't ask you again, but I will say that your lack of enthusiasm for making plans with me is making me feel very insecure. Not having a go, just letting you know x'...that was the last message I sent to him and he didn’t reply. I deleted his number/messages (again).

Anonymous said...

cont...Three days later he messaged our mutual matchmaker friend with general chat & then 'I think I've upset your mate'. She asked 'why, what have you done?'...he didn't reply & she left it there. Then another 3 days later, he messaged her again with general chat & then '*my name* hates me, she hasn't text me all week'. Her reply 'why don't you text her?' His 'Think I'll leave it', hers 'OK', he said 'I thought you would be mad with me', she said 'no, but you're way too fussy', he said 'yeye - goodnight'. Now my friend has said she doesn't want to get in the middle of all of this (after I called him a few choice words) & made it clear to me that this is the last conversation we can have about him which I have respected (through gritted teeth).

So, I didn't hear from him for 19 days & I made no attempt whatsoever to contact him...& then yesterday afternoon (day 19) he whatsapp'd me (we've never whatsapp'd before) with 'Hi how you doing, thought I better say sorry for not messaging you, hope you are OK'. I haven't replied to this message and don’t intend to because I don't think it warrants a response. I would just like to know what you make of ‘him’ & 'us' & ‘y'know’...!

I also admit that I did send him probably ten(ish) needy text messages from our third date onwards, such as 'are you sure you aren't just 'settling' for me?', ‘lucky me’ [for having been introduced to him], 'I've missed your attention today'...having deleted all of his texts I can't remember exactly but there's probably around ten of them in there somewhere!

I’m sorry to have taken up your time...I’m just going a little bit nuts here & trying really hard to get perspective! xxx

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 7, 10:20 AM,
"I would just like to know what you make of ‘him’ & 'us'. . ."

Well, from what you've told me, I get the impression that this was headed somewhere possibly (that's assuming he actually has time for a relationship, which I'm not entirely convinced he does).

And I might be wrong, but it could be that this somewhat interfered and possibly caused the "I'm tired" and "I'm busy" excuses he started throwing around:

"I did send him probably ten(ish) needy text messages from our third date onwards, such as 'are you sure you aren't just 'settling' for me?', ‘lucky me’ [for having been introduced to him], 'I've missed your attention today'"

This happens a lot. Women bond during sex and men generally don't. It takes men a lot longer to get there emotionally. And what happens a lot of the time is that the woman has certain "expectations" after sex that, when she sees they're not happening, she feels like the man's interest is waning. . .when in reality, it's actually HER behavior after sex that's changed, and not his interest.

Because if women have expectations for certain things after sex and they're not being met, it's common for a woman to become more aggressive about seeing to it that those expectations are met by suddenly changing her behavior towards the man and instead of being confident, cool, calm and collected - the behavior turns towards prodding the man along, asking questions, wanting more of his time, wanting to get closer to him, wanting to speed things up, etc.

And when men sense this (not only do they sense it, they WAIT AND WATCH for it), many of them will pull back from what they sense as aggressive onslaught coming towards them and they'll attempt to distance themselves in order to slow things down. And while this isn't the intention behind the woman's behavior, it is generally interpreted by men as an aggressive energy coming at them (pressure) - so they adjust their behavior in order to balance that energy out so that it returns to a nice, normal, fun pace once again.

Does that make sense?

I'm not blaming you here, this is a very common situation - as women, we've all been there LOL. But the thing is, as a woman, it is important that you realize that once you've had sex. . .men are observing YOU and YOUR behavior afterwards, waiting to see if you'll become "crazy" or needy or start applying the pressure. Truthfully, it's a "make or break" moment in the relationship. The woman's behavior after sex can break the relationship, or make it. And men are all different and their behavior is equally as important. But it does seem that they're just generally better equipped to take things slowly after sex LOL - and they wait to see if the woman's behavior will change. They observe that and then adjust their behavior accordingly.

Again, I have no way of knowing the exact timeline of events here, but based on what you've told me, it is possible that things were going smoothly, sex occurred, your behavior changed from that of confident, cool, calm and collected. . .to that of anxiety being released by appearing somewhat insecure, needy, pressuring and questioning. And I'm not saying this to beat you up or make you feel bad about yourself. I'm saying this because this is an incredibly COMMON scenario that I've seen play out over and over and over again.

As women, we've ALL done this at one point or another. And I only point it out because it's such valuable insight that if, as a woman, you can get a grasp on the concept and keep it in mind when dating - particularly after having sex for the first time - it can be an incredibly valuable lesson and can have a major effect on the outcome of the relationship :-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you so, so much for your reply (on May 7, 2015 at 2:57PM) - I've been thinking hard about what you have said and it all makes complete sense - I'm gonna learn from this...I can now see clearly now how I've messed things up and I'm so angry with myself!!! Do you think he'll be back?! (God I sound desperate)! I read in one of your blogs something like 'you can't make a second first impression' - I think maybe perhaps my situation is absolutely where this applies?!

Anonymous said...

Hi,
So I met my boyfriend about 7 weeks ago and he asked me to be his girlfriend after a week. We have had 3 fights since being together. The first, he didn't talk to me for most the day. Than he said he was sorry and we were OK. The second, he was upset I was becoming too clingy. We didn't talk for 4 days. He wouldn't answer my texts. Now this 3 rd one, he hasn't texted me in 9 days. I waited 3 days to text him and sent a short hope you're not mad still let's work this out message..nothing. That the next day I dropped off cookies for a trip he was going on..I made a promise to make them before our fight
.I keep my promises.. And texted him they were at his door. The next day I messaged him I still love him..and than the next day..just a picture of me..I waited again 3 days and just sent a message "hi"..no response...now mind u our fight was because he didn't like the outfit I was wearing and I had offered to change immediately and he said nevermind he wasnt in the mood to go shopping with me anymore..not sure how long I need to go now without trying to contact him..he's so stubborn..

Anonymous said...

Hi The Mirror of Aphrodite,

I love your articles. I have been dating this guy for two months. We see each other once a week on weeknights(he doesn't date me on weekends yet, red flag?). Anyway, he always schedules dates 3 days in advance and we always have great times together(we watch movies, go to dinner, bowling). Worth mentioning is that I made a mistake by sleeping with him too soon(the third date). I was worried he sees me as his hookup since. Anyway, We haven't talked about where this relationship is going or our past romantics. Recently(this past week), things have been different. He didn't schedule date for this week and only texted me once briefly last week. I haven't heard from him for three days already which had never happened before. I didn't asked or initiated. I am not a clingy or needy girl. I give him his space. Does that mean he lost interest in me and doing the slow fading away? I really like him and everything seems compatible and going well. How should I proceed from here? I am 27 and he is 29.

Thanks,

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 7, 8:05 PM,
"How should I proceed from here?"

You keep moving forward, living your life, going out with friends and dating other men casually (no sex). There's no commitment here, so you don't need to be committed to him. Don't contact him, don't call, don't text, don't hunt him down and see if he seeks you out. And when he does (if you stay quiet he most likely will), don't jump on that communication, and don't question him (don't show insecurity).

Instead, angle it as if you've hardly noticed, you've been out having a great time, you've been very busy and your life is full. Confidence is very attractive, and this will signal to him that you're not insecure, others value you and demand your time as well, and if he's not going to make you a priority - no worries - because that works both ways ;-)

Stand strong.

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