Ok, Ladies . . this one’s for you. I see the multitude of comments left by women here under the post titled, “Experiences With A Taurus Male” asking questions such as:
"He was so nice, he started off so strong. Where did he go? What should I do? I text him and he doesn’t respond. I call and he doesn’t answer. Help!”Standing your ground in the early days of dating is absolutely necessary for your sanity, dignity and relationship perspective. Unless, of course, you prefer to be a co-dependant Polly Anna instead.
Men, just like children, will always test their boundaries with you. It’s just a fact of life. They don't sit around plotting and planning this behavior intentionally. It's psychological, preprogrammed. It's a gift of insight into the female species from good ole' Mother Nature. At its purest form, it's meant to give them the upper hand - so they can succssfully mate, procreate and perpetuate the human species. It's behavior they're not aware of - but utilizing daily.
They're honing these skills from childhood. Very early on young boys learn that the best way to get what they want from the woman in their life, namely mom, is to play on her emotions. And as we speak, some little boy on some playground somewhere is punching the little girl he likes in the arm, running away, laughing.
It is what it is, girls. Accept it.
This is not “games” or manipulation of some sort. You need to remember is this – men do indeed play games. It’s pure instinct. Men are acutely aware of the factors that trigger “attraction.” And if you don’t get a grip and counter these moves that every single man in the world will use on you – then you’re going to become the woman with 17 cats faster than you can say, “Bastard.”
First thing you need to understand, and it’s one factor that men are born understanding, is . . .
The Scarcity Theory Of Value
The Law of Scarcity is used in economics daily. Big box stores, marketers and those in the business world understand this. Ever notice during the Holiday season there’s a new game or gadget that’s in scarce supply? But EVERYONE suddenly has to have it? Why is that?
The Answer: Because people always want what they can’t have.
Manufacturers know that they can produce 700,000 of these gadgets for the Holiday season. But they’re not interested in the “get in, get out” method of sales. They want to create a buzz, create a demand – and most importantly – they want people to place a high value on their product. They want people to crave it for months to come – not simply during the month of December.
So what do they do? They dole out the product in scarce supply (and you should do this with sex, too, by the way). Next thing ya' know, people are searching online, hitting 25 stores, standing in line for hours – you get the idea.
And they’re not just doing this in December. Come the month of March, they’re still looking for it and putting energy into acquiring it.
The Reality: People place a high value on something they have to work for.
You want your man to value you, you want him to put energy and effort into the relationship, you want him to puruse you with dignity, it’s what you deserve. Permit this to happen.
Action Steps: When dating, don’t always be available. Don’t respond to texts immediately. Don’t pick up the phone all the time. Don’t return calls immediately. Don’t rearrange your plans to accommodate a man. And never settle for being a booty call. Remain independent, yet flexible, and follow a certain set of "dating rules" for yourself.
The Result: The Scarcity Theory Of Value begins to work. He starts to see you as valuable. He begins to understand that your time is valuable, you are valuable, you are not desperate, and other things and people demand you time as well. His brain begins to subconsciously associate you with being valuable. It's human nature to process the message in that manner, male or female, which is why this law is applied to economics in the marketplace. Use this factor of human behavior to your advantage.
Men instinctively know this. Hell, they use this tactic every single day – on you. So get with the program.
Research Suggests That Uncertainty Heightens Romantic Attraction
It’s a fact, uncertainty creates attraction. Yet another factor that men instinctively know, understand and use to their advantage – DAILY. It goes back to – people want what they can’t have.
Here’s what happens in the human brain. When uncertainty exists, when you can’t have something that you desire . . . you think about it constantly. When your man doesn’t answer a text or ignores a call, you begin to think about him non-stop. What you don’t realize is that all this heavy duty thinking is actually creating more desire for him. He knows that this uncertainty is heightening your attraction for him and there's actual research to back this theory up (PDF).
So now you need to flip the script and use this particular aspect of human behavior to your advantage.
So how do you do that? Take a lesson from him. Play it cool, ladies. In the early days of dating, never let a man know you’re crazy about him. That is, unless you’re looking for the “hit and run” type of situation.
Fact: If you let your man know immediately that you’re falling for him and/or you sleep with him too soon (no sooner than one or two months, ladies), he will immediately move you into the “backup” or “plan B” situation.
Why? Because the thrill is gone and he's already tasted the goods. He now knows he doesn’t have to put another ounce of energy into you. He’s got you right where he wants you – under his thumb. And he now knows he can disappear for days, weeks, months, years. And if he wants you again, if he's bored or other women have rejected him, he'll need an ego boost so he'll be likely to ring you and then, BAM - there you are. Rearranging your schedule, jumping through hoops and giddy that he's contacted you again.
Fact: Once a man has fully “conquered” something, he's apt to lose interest in it. You need to never let him think he's got you or won you over, even if you know he already has.
Action Steps: Never talk about the future in the early days of dating. Never jump through hoops and never let him see you're giddy about what's taking place. Play it cool, just like men do. Hang back, be fun, be spontaneous and be open. But do this on your time and as you see fit. Most likely, he'll poke around with leading statements so he can get a feel for whether or not you're into him.
He'll Say Things Like:
- “Maybe someday, we can buy a house together.”
- "When we live together someday. . ."
- “Maybe someday, I’ll take you here for dinner.”
- “I have a weekend getaway planned in August (and it’s May), maybe you can come with me.”
“Well, we’ll have to see where it goes. If this works out, maybe yes, someday we can do that. That would be nice.”
What He Hears: His work here is not finished. He senses uncertainty and processes the message that he needs to up the anty here. In otherwords, there's still work to be done and this game is not over.
More Importantly: You're independent, you're different. You make your own choices based on actions, not a bunch of bullshit sweet talk. It's going to take more than the punks game of BS to get you. You're not afraid to walk away or skip over him. You don't let a man pick you, you pick your man.
Men Understand Simple Communication
Emotions are overwhelming to men and confuse the hell out of them. It’s a known fact. Emotions are like work to men, the trouble of wading and sifting through them, attempting to decipher and understand or relate to them, it's a ton of work. It's also a major turn off and it makes the relationship more akin to the job of a therapist as oppossed to something fun and enjoyable.
The Number One Mistake Women Make With Men: They share too much of what they’re thinking and feeling with them. Every little thought, every little fear, every little feeling, every little tear, every little "what if." It's a bit much and to a man, amounts to a ton of drama.
If you need a therapist, by all means, go visit one. But your boyfriend, yea, he's not your therapist. He's not getting paid $150 an hour to listen to all your fears and wade through your emotions and insecurities in the dark recesses of your mind, in an effort to heal you or make you emotionally stable and overall, mentally healthy. Do this with your man and he'll be gone in a flash.
Action Step: Visit a therapist of share these emotions with other women who can relate, such as your girlfriends, sisters or female co-workers. Your man should have no clue what's going on in your head.
This is the one single thing that is most likely to create the “disappearing reappearing” man syndrome, although there are other very real signs he'll disappear. Start sharing your emotions with him and he’ll be gone. Do that and you'll take his interest from level 8 or 9 down to a 2 before you can blink an eye. He'll begin to question everything - including your sanity.
Ever listen in on a bunch of men talking amongst themselves? It basically boils down to this:
- a couple of grunts
- some high-fives
- and some laughs
Men Understand Action Loud And Clear, Emotion Only Confuses Them
Let’s say you’ve made the above mistake and you've been using your man as a therapist instead of working out your emotions and fears yourself. Let's assume you believe that your happiness is something a man should grant you - and not something you have to grant yourself. Let's say you've been prodding and poking around about his feelings, if he cares for you and where this may lead.
Imagine This: You are driving the car (relationship) and you are now effectively letting fear and insecurity steer the wheel. Now the car (relationship) is veering wildly out of control at a high speed, his passenger door is open and he’s bailing out onto the highway - leaving you to your own demise.
He’s overwhelmed, he’s confused, he doesn't know why or how this happened and because of that, he's gone MIA on your ass. Your actions have spoken loud and clear – and he’s responding.
Don’t worry, we’ve all been there. And this is where it gets interesting, so LISTEN UP, Ladies!
Men Pull Stunts To Gauge Your Feelings And Reassure Themselves
This is the oldest trick in the book and a known fact as to how men reassure themselves. You can expect a man to distance himself and pull back before diving in headfirst and/or right after having sex. So just know this and be prepared for it ladies. Don't panic and go off the rails.
When men feel uncertain and seek reassurance, they don’t do it like women do – by talking about their feelings and emotions over coffee or a bottle of wine all night long. Men seek reassurance by pulling stunts, like making you jealous, making you worry or the the good ole’ disappearing man act.
Ever notice how the punk player laughs, smiles and smirks when his girlfriend goes off into a jealous rage about another woman calling or approaching him? Watch for that, the Billy Idol half smile. Experts in human behavior and body language refer to that tiny half smile as "duping delight." It's a sure sign that he's pleased as punch about the attention he's getting, how important he feels at that moment, and about how much his girl cares for him. Really insecure guys, like players, pull stuff like this all the time to make themselves feel important, wanted and confident.
Because let's face it, if you didn't care, you wouldn't be going off, half-cocked, about the issue.
What To Do When Your Man Disappears: The Rubber Band Theory
When he goes MIA, you do too. You fall off his radar, hell you fall off the face of the earth, and all he hears are crickets chirping in the distance on a silent night.
How That Works: It tells him that you’re okay giving him space and that he's not that incredibly important to you. Being alone is okay with you and besides, there are others out there who want your time as well, so this really isn't a big deal. You have other options and your strong, emotionally.
The Result: He's thinking about you non stop. He’s not getting the reaction he thought he’d get. You're different and he's actually admiring your emotional strength. He's impressed by it. But it's also triggering HIS insecurities. Is there someone else? Is she over me? Why isn't she blowing up my phone?
Once he moves through that thought process, much like a rubber band, he'll spring back towards you. He'll think, "I'd better go check and see what's going on."
This is based on a dating theory called "The Rubber Band Theory" which concludes that this is part of the male intimacy process - getting close, then pulling away to think, remain independent, feel manly and not get too caught up in HIS emotions. Men do this to maintain a nice, healthy balance.
I’m telling you ladies, if you send one text, make one phone call – you’re going to BLOW THIS. He’ll be gone in sixty seconds. He’ll instantly know there is no other man on the scene and his attraction for you will disappear in a flash. You will look emotionally pathetic to him.
Maintain your strength in this situation. One of two things will happen:
- He’ll stay gone for good. In which case, you’ve got your answer, no more waiting around for him – and you’ve dodged a bullet here because he wasn’t that into you to begin with. And had you stuck around for more games, grief and pain, more is definitely what you will have received.
- He’ll suddenly reappear. He’ll have had time to think, he’ll have had plenty of space and the rubber band effect will kick in – and he'll come around to seek you out. He'll mis you and that's what you want him to do.
Men and women both tend to equate longing with love and many scientists and anthropologists believe it to be a cultural universal, ladies - worldwide.
What To Do When Your Man Reappears: Behavioral Mirroring
If he’s gone, good riddance. He wasn’t into you anyway and/or he’s insecure. If he reappears, you get a second chance, girls, so don't blow it. You flip the switch and work your voodoo magic on his ass. You take control and you move things forward in your way and on your time and at your pace, not his.
He’s just revealed to you that YOU now have HIM. Gotcha little bastard – game on. (And remember, he started all this by making himself scarce, by not answering texts, and acting like he doesn't care. You don't want to play this game, but they insist on it – so here you are, game face on.)
Reminds me of a popular saying, "If you're going to play the game, I'll be the coach."
When your man suddenly reappears you have two options:
1.) Ask yourself if he’s worth it. What are the chances he'd do this again? Is there a history of this behavior? If so, he's a flake, not worth it.
2.) Act accordingly based on that decision.
If he’s worth it, here’s what you do when he suddenly reappears:
Action Step: Don’t answer that text or return that call for two or three days. Yes, three days, girls, this is important. You're taking a stance and you don't budge on that or he'll call you on that, he'll sense hesitation and weakness, and he'll take control again. Simply use another psychological tactic called mirroring and mirror his behavior. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander and all is fair in love and war.
What He Hears: This poor treatment is not something you'll overlook. You won't go off the rails about it, but you're no dummy either and now he knows this. You have a life and you're going to live it, with or without him. You know the meaning of consequence and bad behavior doesn't earn your attention. Bad behavior earns consequences, those of which you're not afraid to dole out, and you will hold him accountable for his actions. You will not reward him for them.
There's a great old saying I love, "Never treat someone like your priority while they're treating you like their option."
Action Step: Make your response friendly, casual and keep it carefree. In otherwords, you could care less and these little pranks mean nothing to you.
If you get the proverbial, “Hey” text or some sorry ass excuse for where the hell he’s been for a month (he was abducted by aliens) then three days later, you simply ignore the excuse he provided and say:
“Hey what’s up? It was nice to hear from you, I hope things are going well. I’ve been so busy lately, we’ll have to get together sometime soon. Have a great day, talk to ya’ later!”
What He Hears: You’re still there but now you're farther apart. Remember the rubber band theory, ladies. Men like a little bit of tension, it's exciting and makes them curious. Treating you like this will not be the way to your heart and does not make you want to spend time with him. He knows what he did was wrong, you don't have to tell him. So now, he's a bit confused and you have the uncertainty factor of human behavior working to your advantage. And remember, uncertainty creates romantic attraction.
If he disappears for good, he was an insecure guy who was beat at his own game. What up now, player? And the last thing on earth you want to date is an insecure guy who is a player, so be gone fool.
Insecure guys are a bit different concerning this prank – they do it just to prove they can get a girl to jump. They don’t even have to like her. Deep down, they don’t feel like a man. Making a woman jump makes them feel manly. You don’t need a guy who is out to prove something to himself. Period. You want a man, not an insecure little boy who plays games to feel like a man.
Just give it some time. He’ll think about this and if he’s a real man and he genuinely likes you, he’ll be back. Nagging and chasing is what he expects. You not caring and blowing him off is not what he expects. Don't let him push your buttons, push his and throw him for a loop.
Shake Things Up And Blow Them Off: The Push Pull Method
Ever notice that the men you ignore are generally the one’s blowing up your phone? Why is that, you ask? Because you could care less about them and this kicks in a natural human behavior tendency to prove themselves to you, to win you over, to beat out other men, and claim the prize. So they start vying for your attention and going to great lengths to get it.
There's a dating principal that many refer to as "The Push Pull Method." And it works boths ways, on men and women, in most cases. It's a way to be interesting and fun without being too nice or too mean.
I’ll keep this section simple. Playing it safe is boring. A man needs to be unable to predict your next move if he's to find you intriquing. So start to shake things up a bit by creating some tension, pulling back on that rubber band a bit - and hold tight for him to spring back at you.
Men Are Competitive and Love To Chase
For women, the end result is what’s exciting, the future. For men, it’s the opposite, it’s the journey that’s thrilling to them, the here and now.
Men like to hunt. It plays on their natural, psychological tendency to enjoy competition. Permit yourself to become the prey and let them hunt you. Remember, it's also part of the human psychological condition to place a higher value on something you have to work for and in the modern day marketplace, it's being used everyday.
There's a great line in the movie, "The Break-Up." When Vince Vaughn and his buddy go into a nightclub, they say, "Let's seperate the weak ones from the pack." Clearly they were on the hunt.
Ladies, you’re the prey. He’s the hunter. Now run!
Dating, Mating And Male Insights
Men don't want to be your therapist.
Give him plenty of space, pull back on that rubber band and he'll spring back at you.
Men tend to disrespect a woman who is too nice.
Men see nagging as emotional weakness.
A little distance along with some apathy pulls on that rubber band.
If he can predict your every reaction, you'll bore him to death.
Sleeping with a guy too soon takes all the fun of it for him. If you throw yourself at him, his reaction will be, "Meh."
Your sexuality is your power. The sooner you give it away, the sooner he'll leave.
Sleep with him too soon (before a month or two) and he'll view you as an object. Make him work for it and he'll notice you as a woman.
Not sleeping with him in the first month or two gives you time to find out who he really is and will save you lots of tears later on.
Nice girls, much like nice guys, finish last.
Don't Become Road Kill
Don't let yourself and your emotions get run over like road kill. Look out for yourself, voice your opinions, don't be afraid to say no or turn down mediocre offers, and take things at your own pace while enjoying your own lifestyle in the midst of it.
If you look out for yourself in this manner, you will attract someone who will do the same for you.
Additional Food For Thought
Is he into you? Check out "He Is Not Into You: Relationship Red Flags"
Are you dating a player? Check out "What Is A Player: Signs You're Dating A Player"
Dealing With The Aftermath? Check out "Men Disappear and Reappear: The Aftermath"
Questioning Yourself? Check out "Dating: What Does It Mean When He. . ."
Feeling Powerless? Check out "Women And Relationships: Reclaiming Your Power."
Is he blaming you? Check out "What Is Nagging And Shifting Blame?"
Source Books and Recommended Reading
"Mars and Venus On A Date" by John Gray, Ph.D.
"Why Men Love Bitches" by Sherry Argov
"The Manual" by Steve Santagati
"Date Like A Man" by Myreah Moore and Jodie Gould
"How To Make Anyone Fall In Love With You" by Leil Lowndes
"How To Date Men" by Janis Spindel
Still Don't Believe This Is A Game Being Run On You Daily?
Do me a favor and Google "ignore her" on the Internet. You'll see what these little sneaks are up to:"Mind Games Men Like Playing On Women" (THIS IS A MUST READ, WRITTEN BY A MAN AND STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSES MOUTH, LADIES)
"Why Nice Guys Ignore The Girl They Like"
"How To Raise An Interest Level: Ignore Her!"
"Get Out Of The Friend Zone By Ignoring Her"
"Why Ignoring Her Will Make Her Beg You To Take Her Back."
And there you have it. This is what they're up to. Now flip the script.
Comments, Personal Views, Personal Stories, Advice, Suggestions and Discussion on This Site by The Community of Mirror of Aphrodite is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
UPDATE 11/18/2014: WE'VE HIT THE COMMENT LIMIT ON THIS POST LADIES. THE SYSTEM HAS REACHED IT'S 5,000 COMMENT LIMIT AND WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT COMMENTS ON THIS PARTICULAR POST. PLEASE VISIT "DATING A DISAPPEARING MAN, REACHED YOUR LIMIT?" TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION. THANKS SO MUCH GALS, IT'S BEEN A REAL RIDE - AND THIS IS QUITE A MILESTONE!!
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«Oldest ‹Older 4401 – 4600 of 5004 Newer› Newest»@Anonymous May 4, 4:27 PM,
"he's sent this text 3wks later.... I got it 5 nights ago and I'm not sure what to do and wanted to ask your advice"
Ignore him dear, he's a waste of time. He forgot your name, he never called and he still hasn't called. He's already wasted your time.
"should I be responding to this guy who has text me after a disappearance of 3wks with that excuse?"
I wouldn't bother, he could do this for another six weeks with one excuse after another. He's doing absolutely nothing to make you feel special here and chances are...he never will, even if you do date him, because his actions are already signaling that he's more about himself and his own stuff than he is anyone else. I mean, he forgot your name for crying out loud and it's only been 3 weeks. That tells me he's speaking to a LOT of women. So many, he can't keep their names straight :-(
"Should I have the mindset that his behaviour is the norm of on-line dating"
Oh it's the norm alright - tons of lazy men out there "fishing" online. But that doesn't mean you have to settle for it.
"should I be thinking that he's not worth a try because I want to date other men"
If it were me, I'd be thinking, "To hell with this lazy jag, he forgot my name, never called and disappeared for 3 weeks. I'm not impressed at all and I'm offended. I don't just want to date other men - I want to date the RIGHT man and this guy is clearly not him."
"that I would be using this guy as an opportunity to potentially go on a date/socialise with more than one guy for a change?"
It would, if the date ever really happened. And with men who act like this online, lots of them just want text buddies. The guys who never call but continue texting, most times, end up a text buddy and never follow through.
"Or do you think that how he behaved is not acceptable?"
I think it's ignorant. The minute a guy signals he doesn't even remember my name - DONE. I mean, I work in the online industry and I get loads of spam with my name in it for crying out loud, LOL! And this guy can't even remember your name and then USE it to make a real connection with you, he's using your anonymous screen name instead??? Yea - no way I'd give him the time of day LOL.
@Anonymous May 4, 4:56 PM,
I don't think confronting him will turn out well. The best you can do is mirror his behavior if you're on the fence about him. That's addressed in the article above. But if you do that for a week or two and he's not calling as he claimed he would, it's best to move on dear.
@Taurean Woman,
Well here's the thing dear...when we're desperate, we do desperate things. Just like the old saying, "Desperate people do desperate things." And THAT is why I strongly advocate that women not be desperate, not think desperately and not give the impression that they're desperate...because scoundrels can smell desperation a mile away.
And I should clarify, I'm not calling you desperate like as if you're pathetic or something LOL. I'm generalizing there because...well because we women sometime behave and think as if we're desperate when we are NOT. I think society kinda' drills it into women's heads from a very young age, "be nice, smile and be kind to everyone you meet, and they'll love you for it."
Well you know what? NO, they won't love you for it. They'll think you're desperate, they'll mistake your kindness for weakness and they'll take advantage of you and walk all over you as a result. Which is why signaling desperation in any way, shape or form for women is so very dangerous. It can make you a victim, it sets you up to be victimized and acted upon by others. And women need to be very self-aware about WHAT gives people, particularly men, the impression that you're desperate, even if you're not.
And the things that MISTAKENLY signal desperation are:
1) Being too nice
2) Being too available
3) Going above and beyond for others regularly
4) Changing your plans and scheduling your life and dreams around someone else's schedule, life and dreams
5) Not setting clear boundaries about how you expect to be treated
6) Giving the benefit of doubt instead of issuing consequences
7) Making excuses for ignorant behavior
8) Tolerating being taken advantage of
9) Giving and investing more into the other than they're giving and investing into you
10) Signaling a willingness to race into an instant relationship
Now, to us women, much of that above is simply us being nice and understanding of others, thinking we're doing what's best for THEM. But the problem with that is, nine times out of ten, it's NOT what's best for US. Get what I mean?
Think of YOURSELF dear. There are times in life when it's necessary to be selfish in order to protect yourself. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable when dealing with others. Get used to saying no, get used to using silence to your advantage and more than anything else....get used to walking away from those that are treating you poorly, instead of sticking around, trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and driving yourself insane in the process because it doesn't fit.
You're not going to get an apology from either one of these folks dear, so don't wait around for that or expect it. She was never your friend because if she was, this never would've happened. And he's a guy with a pattern of cheating and lying. A pattern that won't change obviously and each women he cheats with, apparently he cheats ON eventually as well. And I bet that's what happened with your girlfriend. She probably caught him speaking to yet another woman.
Be glad they're both out of your life dear. Take this as a valuable lesson learned and use it as you move forward to remind yourself...to never let this happen to you ever again. Everything happens for a reason dear. And maybe the reason this happened is because....your Prince Charming is about to come into your life and the universe needed to "clean house" first to make way for his arrival :-)
Hi Ms Mirror @Anonymous May 4, 4:27 PM,
You're right the jag isn't worth the time of day...I'm glad that I didn't reply to him now and I won't now that you have helped clarify things...
We were only messaging for about 3-4 days, quite a lot but our names were only exchanged right towards the end when he asked for mine. To be honest I'm not sure that I'd remember his name either I suppose because of the above but he included it in the text with his username. That aside there's enough there anyway for me not to bother wasting my time with this jag - the ignorant behaviour, he was lucky I gave him my number and he ignored that message and disappeared for 3wks to give an unvalid excuse about moving house although he was continually active on there LOL.
I've just read your post on desperation and thought it was great and a reminder to us all how our behaviour can be construed as desperate...and it got me thinking yeah I want to date decent guys and me replying to him after his behaviour would mean I was desperate to settle for anything and I'm not!
thanks again
Thankyou mirror. invaluable advice as always...& finally läst thing is that my friend was married too...wondering Whether i should tell her husband. im getting different advice..others saying i should and others i shouldnt. part of me thinks he probably knows anyways..am i letting her Walk all over me ägain & being too kind/weak!! If i let her get away with it...:(
Hi Mirror,
Hope you are doing well! I really appreciate your time and for helping me through all this and I just can't thank you enough:)
The last time we spoke I had mentioned that my DM had invited me over to hang out and I declined. I texted him back saying, "I'm free this saturday if you want to grab a bite" and I never heard back from him and it's been a month now and It's driving me nuts. He has been very persistant in asking me out for the entire year and I have always told him I couldn't because I was busy or out of town. Before our last conversation he said "It makes me laugh and curious if you will ever actually come and hang out with me" and I said yes of course when I'm not so busy. He usually always texts me every week or few weeks after and now this is first time that it's been this long and it's now going over a month :( I feel like texting him and saying hi but then I re-read your article and I know I shouldn't and it's frustrating to be ignored for this long. Do you why I'm being ignored for this long? It's been year and he has been asking me countless times to see me but I seem to shut him down every time for a year now. Mirror, do you think he's going to text me again or should I say something? Perhaps when I am ready to see him, would it be ok of me to text him then?
Hi Mirror @Anonymous May 4, 4:56 PM,
I just want to lay this down in writing really and please may I have your opinion and insights of what you think has gone on here/going on....I was going to leave it a bit before posting but I pretty much think this guy has disappeared on me.
So there's this guy I've been chatting to for nearly 2wks, he's the one with the pending phone call...
In the beginning he sort of mentioned that it freaked him out the on-line dating because you don't know if there's a pervy bloke at the other end. He said he thought I was genuine, he said for me to google him and he is a attorney but now works with a related business type thing so all seems legit there. So for 2wks we are mailing each other and he asked for my number so texting everyday and a few times a day. He seems really nice, has a bit of banter with me, nothing sexual at all, not even flirty really but getting on really well with each other and he seemed respectful towards me. Shared few things about our relations. He seemed really nice, I wonder now if it was too perfect and not really real, I was impressed in the way he was attentive to me by his consistent,regular messaging and he seemed really interested...
Normally they fall off well within a week if they're not genuine...So he's mentioning things about meeting up and when roughly he can get to my area that works with his business commitments but I said that I thought we should speak before we make any firm arrangements, (I'd already said previously that there's no way I'd agree to meet someone on there until we'd spoken and that's when he said about on-line freaking him out a bit) so it was at that point he asked for my number and then he started texting me.
He was away until today but I was alright about the texting as I didn't expect a call while he was away and thought that he'd probably leave it until he got home... However, it got to last weekend and he said that he might call me tomorrow if I was lucky ;) and I just joked back but I also said sounds good give me a call.
Now I don't know why he mentioned about calling if he didn't want to, I really don't think it was necessary while he was away but because he did and this was the start off the communication going a bit strange.
cont...
So what happened I didn't mention it when he didn't call. He was always very chatty and pleasant telling me what he was doing, asking me what I was doing, wishing me a good day etc. So the day after that he sends me this other text same sort of thing and I'm thinking well never mind that what happened to the call LOL but I never said anything but replied about something he'd shared with me about his family member not being well, said it was all good here... and wished him a good day. Now immediately he sends me this photo of where he was sat in this cafe bar type thing and I just thought that it was like handing me a morsel as a compensation for a phone call LOL he wasn't even on the picture. So I didn't respond to the photo or about it.
Well here's the thing the guy is obviously emotionally intelligent whether he is manipulative I don't know but he picks up on my communication and obviously is either reads between the lines that I'm not impressed or he just realised that he needs to acknowledge the lack of phone call and bingo a text arrives in the evening saying sorry he didn't call. It was a strange day. friendly friendly etc etc no real explanation or suggestion of a future call.
So what I did was I left it over night and text the next day lunchtime, saying sorry that I'd been out last night, asking him about something he'd mentioned in his previous text of how he was and asked him what he was up to. Again no mention about the phone call or his apology I just didn't want to acknowledge and let my silence on the matter speak for itself, knowing that he may pick up on that again.
Anyway my text has been completely ignored, I've wondered a lot of things really but I feel a bit numb with it, I really didn't expect an abrupt ending and ignorant behaviour from him as he'd great at communicating with me and feel a bit left high and dry type of thing.
I wondered at first whether I'd pushed his nose out of joint by not replying till the next day and he didn't like it and was maybe mirroring me and keeping me waiting. I really don't think I should be expected to reply that evening and I did reply the next morning...but when he'd been out on a night he did text me during and I wondered if I'd offended him. However, he wasn't calling was he and it's a bit weird when you put it in the context and it was like I was having to put that boundary up with my behaviour signalling that I was not impressed about this no-show of a phone-call but without me confronting him about it.
Like I said I would have been perfectly happy if he'd said to me I tell you what I'll give you a call next week when I get back in the country and I still would be if he'd get in touch with me now he's back...but nothing...
I really don't know what is behind this disappearance it is totally different to the communication I'd had with previously and I didn't see a disappearance coming as he was so attentive.
I thought maybe that he would text me today on arriving back in the country and suggest a time to call and also talk the dates he'd roughly spoken about of when he'd probably be in my area.
I'm really disappointed and thinking now that maybe he wasn't geniune?? Was he stalling and not ready to make a commitment yet to talking and meeting up?? Was he playing with me and stringing me along - if he was he's really gone to town in portraying a genuine interest. I even started thinking did he think that I was not interested when I put up those boundaries with my communication. The difficult thing is he will be able to see when I'm on-line but can't tell when he is as he's got that select sub I think whereby you can surf unavailable. Do you think there is even a possibility that this guy is emotionally unavailable? He said he was on their as all his friends were either married with kids or with a partner. It gives the impression he wanted to meet someone. I don't know what went wrong...when he sees me on there it may confirm if does think I'm not interested...but I am and I'm just coming across a load of Jags on there and I really thought this one he was genuine and genuinely interested...
The chatting for two weeks feels like a bit of an investment as he's wasted my time and I just never saw it coming with this one that he'd be so rude and just disappear without a word after giving the impression that he wanted to meet up with me...
Ms Mirror please could you shed some light on what you think has happened here because I just don't know what to think and umm yeah like anyone human really I think would be disappointed and a bit taken aback...
thank you
Cont...
ms Mirror I forgot to say I'm even doubting that he got the text because it seems so odd, I've had the odd text disappear into the ether before with trustworthy people...but given the phone call fiasco I think that he most probably has it...
Thank you
Mirror,
I have a guy that is being distant with me, I think my mistake was that I got comfortable and initiated a bit of texts with him. I noticed in the beginning that he would initiate and when I would respond he would respond literally within 2 minutes. I feel that whole push/pull thing going on so since he has pulled back so have I. It's been a week in a half since I have heard from him and my intention is to see if he will come looking for me. It worked before so there's no reason why it shouldn't work now right? I know he's very busy and I know you said men don't operate on women's time frame and a week to a man is nothing. He knows I want a serious relationship and will not settle for something casual but he is a man and all men want sex. I don't want to give him an ultimatum and push him away so I should just mirror him and not get emotional?
Its incredible the ex boyfriend that I ignore keeps contacting me even when I lied to him and told him I had a boyfriend and he wouldn't appreciate us talking. He said okay but let me know if you change your mind and a month later emails me saying he lost his phone and all his contacts and if I was free this weekend... what part of NO I DO NOT WANT TO SEE YOU doesn't he get. What is his problem I am not interested in him and don't lead him on and actually he tells me I'm mean..... if I'm so mean why the hell does he contact me and want to have dinner with me??????
Its ironic the guy you really like sometimes backs away by the woman's emotional behavior and then the guy you could care less about doesn't leave you alone!!!!! :) That spoke to me loud and clear Mirror. Time to resort to my new ways with the guy I do want to hear from. Any tips more tips Mirror?
-- Jennifer
@Life is short. Smile often,
"It's been year and he has been asking me countless times to see me but I seem to shut him down every time for a year now."
Why is that dear? You mean every single time he asked you out, you were traveling? If that's the case, then I fear dating may prove troublesome for you dear as you do need time to actually do it, ya' know?
"do you think he's going to text me again or should I say something?"
If given enough time, yep, he very well may - or he may not, there are no guarantees. But one thing I do know is that you've already contacted him - and received no response. So I don't think repeating the same exact process is going to yield different results, ya' know? Let's remember, the definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
So I say, nope, don't contact him. You're still waiting for his response, so the ball is in his court.
"Perhaps when I am ready to see him, would it be ok of me to text him then?"
Well, like I said above dear - you've already done that and it didn't yield results, so no, I wouldn't do the same thing again and expect anything different to happen.
What you may want to think about though dear is...are you really ready to date? Do you have the time to devote to someone to actually see them, to actually go on dates with them? If the answer is no, then regretfully, it may be time to put that on hold for a while until your situation changes and/or you meet a man that's got a similar situation going on, where you can see each other only occasionally.
@Anonymous May 4, 4:56 PM,
My apologies dear, but I really don't have anything additional to add that I haven't already stated previously about the situation.
Bottom line, when a man's words and actions do NOT align - big red flag, get away from him.
Why he's done this doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that he's proved himself less than an honorable man, a game player and someone that's unreliable and inconsistent. That's all you need to know to make an informed decision dear. Men do this kind of crap online and on social media and the net and in real life even...it is what it is. But what it isn't, is a reflection on YOU. Clearly this man is playing games and he's manipulative and my guess is, very insecure. When people behave erratically like this, it signals deeper issues in the individual, not YOU :-)
@Jennifer,
"should just mirror him and not get emotional?"
Well, your only other choices are:
1) Contact him when he's signaling he needs space and risk being rejected
2) Walk away
And I think it's better to not potentially destroy things by coming across as needy or pushy or walking away for good...so that leaves mirroring him.
"What is his problem I am not interested in him and don't lead him on and actually he tells me I'm mean..... if I'm so mean why the hell does he contact me and want to have dinner with me?"
Because scarcity and uncertainty and independence - create attraction dear. It is what it is LOL. People want what they can't have. Those are the very things discussed in this article and the very things I'm suggesting you use to your advantage in your current situation (you remain scarce and get him curious).
"Its ironic the guy you really like sometimes backs away by the woman's emotional behavior and then the guy you could care less about doesn't leave you alone!"
Well, not saying you're doing this but using it as an example because it happens a LOT...maybe that's because you (not you, just generally speaking here) smother the things you love to the point of extinguishing their fire....and the scarcity, uncertainty and independence you show men that you don't want to be with - draws them towards you ;-)
"Any more tips Mirror?"
Re-read the article above and click through the links to the pieces on human behavior, and the psychological effects of scarcity and uncertainty - let it all sink in.
And if I were you, when this guy DID finally contact me...guess what? I would NOT be available to him for the amount of time he disappeared on me. And if I lost him in the process, I'd consider it no big deal to lose a man behaving as if he could've cared less about me anyway.
It's a mindset dear - get your BITCH on with him LOL (Babe In Total Control [of] Herself ;-)
Mirror my ex is like a bad rash that won't go away. Hahahaha. Everyone says ignore him, I do and he acts as if we've been buds this whole time. Its actually quite pathetic and even if I wanted to see him I would be turned off.
Your right MOA in the past I have smothered my boyfriends by holding on tight, showing excess of emotion and being overly nice so that he could like me more. In the end I was frustrated because they would never meet my expectations and they would get frustrated that I was bitching at them all the time. I never let them be the man or man up in the relationship, and neither one of us was happy. So now I am trying out my new ways with this guy, let's call him John. I have not been smothering him he actually is the one to express his feelings first. Telling me he misses me and all and I do reciprocate but I think I need to be more scarce. I think he needs to worry about me, that I'll find someone else to really light that fire under him to take action. He has admitted to me that he does get jealous, hmmmm. I have noticed that he is reserved and its weird but its almost as if he expresses all this emotional stuff and his feelings with me, then he catches himself and has to distance from me in order to come back and be loving again. I guess I'm used to men giving constant attention and like POW full on but with him he needs to have that control and act aloof. Next time he tells me he misses me I should tell him something snarky. Lil
-- Jennifer
Hi Mirror, Anonymous May 4, 4:56 PM,
Thanks as always...I won't take it personally what has happened with him... I'm surprised a guy of that caliber in terms of his profession acts so abysmally - in particular the lack of integrity that he suddenly revealed.
I'm just dusting myself down and moving on...
Funny, the other night after posting I had a bit of a bad night but by accident I came across two messages
The first:
'Be picky with who you invest your time in...wasted time is worse than wasted money'
and
'respect yourself enough to walk away from anything that no longer serves you, grows you or makes you happy'
Meaningful coincidences I thought...Very poignant to find them at that time and I settled to sleep :) I carry another in my dressing gown pocket that says 'a wonderful surprise is on it's way to me' because I like it... and last night it fell out and I found it on the floor :)
Just thought I'd share those...
thanks again
MOA so "If a man doesn't ask for a commitment within the first 6 months of dating, then chances are, he's never going to. So you could give this two more months if you like, and if nothing changes or develops by then, then you walk away and you find a man that wants what you want :-)" So is this how Amal got George Clooney to propose to her after knowing her for less than six months?
Funny when I saw his engagement news break I laughed and thought of you right away. I thought this girl played her cards right and that's how she got the ring because with all do respect she is definitely not as attractive as the other girls he dated or surrounded by. Okay maybe she is smart and educated but she used something else to get him to commit and I think your rules are what got her to where she is today. What do you think? She probably didn't run after him or do all the work. Probably used NC after he went out with her in October and probably disappeared doing his own thing.
@Anonymous May 8, 1:05 PM,
LOL, well...Amal is a classy lady, not that the others weren't, but she is in a different league so-to-speak. She's not a model, as you said, she has a brain, she is independent, well-respected, she's an attorney so I'm sure she's great at debating and standing her ground...and while she may not have the most precious face out of all the gals from his past....she DOES look SMOKIN' hot in a bikini LOL.
So, brains, independence, great BS detector skills from her career, ability to stand her ground...it's a win and the bikini body is just a bonus LOL.
Not sure what voodoo she used on old Georgie boy there but if you just look at her with him in photos and other women with him in photos...she has some "strength" to her that's indescribable and probably pretty magnetic for poor George...it brought him to his knees, literally - he met his match ;-)
MOA what photos of her in a bikini have you seen? I saw one where she looks like she has the body of a 10 year old boy. That said, good for her for standing her ground. I do like the fact that for once a man chose a woman over 30 and intelligent in Hollywood. Really really does give us career girls hope :) Having said all that I hope she chooses to hire a stylist.
This is not Amal MOA - this is Monika his other hot gf before Amal. A lot of my friends thought it was her from the hair color.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2478612/George-Clooneys-new-female-friend-British-barrister-Amal-Alamuddin.html
@Anonymous May 9, 8:42 AM,
I can't find where I saw it a while back, however, I think it was related to her being voted "London's Hottest Barrister" in 2013...
Hi MOA, I'm sure I'm part of the minority of women that doesn't 'get' the crazy fervor women have all over the world over George Clooney. Sure, I 'get' that he's one of the more handsome men out there, has a brain, and seems like a classy guy himself, hence, he 'held-out' for a classy woman. But please describe what the fuss is all about. Even MEN look up to him like some kind of hero, idolizing him like all the women, wishing they were George Clooney, lol!
I don't mean to offend any of his fans; I understand that he seems like a good man, but is it the combination of him being the 'good guy' and the fact that he doesn't just go for any woman that is part of his appeal?
@Anonymous May 9, 3:34 PM,
I'm not a George Clooney fan. Don't get me wrong, good looking guy and all but there are lots of those out there LOL. I think it's just the "eligible bachelor" thing. Success, good looks, good guy, grounded, respectful to women even if only for flings, nice homes...the "fantasy" appeal LOL ;-)
I agree with MOA he is just another successful guy. I lived in LA for years and saw him all the time. In person he doesn't look as good as TV - sorry ladies. He is kind of a typical Taurus....goes around life interviewing everyone till he finds the perfect "one".
I think the whole fuss over him was him being available for so long and now bang he decided to get married after knowing this lady for a few months. I swear if I had read MOA's blog a few months ago I would be with this super amazing guy I was talking to. I made so many mistakes that I wish I could go back and fix. Irony is a few months ago he came back and messaged me and I didn't respond. I had read MOA's blog and learned to wait and make sure he is not just checking to see if I am waiting around.
Thank you, I'm in good company. He just seems more like a nice guy to know or have as a friend, not necessarily date. I guess women are more capable than men of acknowledging that a guy is good looking, but not have any romantic interest in him whatsoever.
Hi Mirror and everybody,
how are you all? Especially the ladies in my age group - Gemini50, Chk61 and other ladies - are you still here? As for me, I am still reading and learning.
I have virtually no news. As you might remember, I have become a cycling buddy with the player who originally brought me here. I have swallowed my pride, got rid of my expectations of him being genuinely interested in me in a romantic way and it has worked - for some time. I want to share with you an incident that happened when we last went cycling. So after a nice ride we stopped to have some ice-cream and coffee. After a while he excused himself and went to the bathroom. I waited for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes... At that point it occurred to me he might have run out of toilet paper or something like that, but I continued waiting. When about 25 minutes had passed, I became a little worried and decided to go and look whether he was okay. I opened the door to the men´s bathroom ajar and there he was busy sending texts to whoknows who. Fortunately, he didn´t notice me and I quickly returned to our table. He came some time later, apologized and continued the conversation as if nothing had happened. He did this for the first time, he never behaves like that. Mirror, my question for you is what do you think I was supposed to do in that situation. I asked him if something had happened, he said no, so I pretended I was okay. But it was unpleasant for me. Also, at the end of the cycling trip he never makes an appointment with me for the next time. Please don´t misunderstand me, I know we are not dating, but with any friend of mine I always agree on a vague plan at least as to when we will probably meet another time. With this man it´s impossible.He usually phones out of the blue a day or two in advance So I have come to the conclusion that this man makes me feel bad even as a cycling friend.:-( You were right to tell me to have nothing with him. However, I am interested how you would have handled that situation.
Otherwise I am still online dating, although more sporadically than before, partly due to my longer term bronchitis and some allergy, but I am still making some effort.
Best regards to all of you and Mirror, I am curious for your reply. Thank you and have a nice weekend,
HopefulWithMen
@HopefulWithMen,
I probably would've done exactly what you did, inquired as to whether or not everything was okay just to make sure an emergency hadn't occurred, and then not confronted him about it, left, and wouldn't bother seeing him again. And the next time he asked to go, I would probably tell him I'm seeing someone, even if I wasn't, and I'd leave it at that.
Telling him you're seeing someone does two things. First, it obviously gives you a pleasant way to remove yourself from the situation. But more importantly, it'll catch him off guard. Because most likely, this man's ego has him thinking YOU are interested romantically. That's why he went to the bathroom to text like that. If he really truly believed you were just friends, then there'd be absolutely no reason to hide that from you. So telling him you're seeing someone, actually throws him on his ass and corrects that presumptuous behavior of his there and leaves YOU coming out on top - as in, "surprise, you were wrong about me, I'm not desperate and I have other male options." ;-)
This guy's a player dear. Imagine being that poor woman on the other end of those texts. She's having a conversation with this man, possibly involving plans with him, and where is he? Oh, he's out with another woman, of course, in the midst of plans with her - while he's on the line with this one, making plans with her as well.
Just goes to validate this man's character dear, which isn't impressive. And someday, he'll probably do the same damn thing to this woman he's speaking to now. Men like this are more trouble than they're worth and friendships with them simply aren't worth it either, because when people play games like he is, people get yanked around while he's pulling strings and entertaining himself.
If I were you dear, the next time I heard from him, I'd tell him I'm currently involved and want to see where it will lead. It's been nice knowing him, you wish him all the best - sayonara asshole LOL.
Because here's the deal. Most likely, he's intending on doing the same with you. And with a guy like this, you don't give him the satisfaction of doing so like that. Instead, you turn the tables, you take control of the situation, and you throw this man for a loop - and YOU come out on top, sending HIM away - instead of giving HIM the satisfaction of having it the other way around. ;-)
Hi Mirror,
thanks for you reply. And as usual, you are right and I´ll do exactly what you suggest. Perfect advice for me at this moment because as you know I´ve tried to exclude him from my life a few times but he always came back and what did I do? Since he always contacted me after a considerable time during which I had forgiven him his bad behaviour and changed his tactics, I always fell for them and accepted him repeatedly. So obviously, when I tell him I am meeting someone else, it will sound like a definite refusal and hopefully, he won´t contact me anymore. Some time ago I would probably have just excused myself and not met him. However, I agree with you that at this point he deserves a slap in the face for mistreating not only me but women in general. In my opinion, men like him actually fear women and by juggling several at the same time they gain a false feeling of control. Sadly, he can´t even be a cycling buddy, let alone a friend or a partner.:-(
Thank you again for all your kind advice,
Hopeful
@ Hopeful,
I am here reading :-) (and posting a couple times on other articles.)
Ms. Mirror gives some great advice for the next time the cyclist contacts you... leave him in your dust. He absolutely will be thrown for a loop. It might take some time to see it, but you will dear.
DC (the friend that has stayed with me and I blocked NY Eve) is still nuts over my not having anything to do with him. He and GF are still chummy, so I hear from her what he's saying, but I don't care -- he gets no response from me. And to tell you the truth, I am so glad I have cut him out of my life.
I suspect you will feel the same way eventually regarding the cyclist.
Nothing new to report in my world: I used a gas powered spray washer this morning for the first time, hammered in some siding on my house that was coming undone, and mowed my entire freaken' lawn today... I watched the Bruins win @ my son's place last night and had a nice chat this morming with my daughter who's in Chicago for the weekend visiting her bf... AND I'm still working on me.
Hugs to you sweety, and kudos that you discovered what the asshole cyclist was doing. You seeing it firsthand was a gift.
Hopeful, I've been thinking of you all, Gemini50 and Mirror. I've been laying low due to some other circumstances in life, but all is well. Turning 53 next month is a sobering thought but I realize, age is relative! So I'm working on living in the present moment, taking people for who they are, trying to release expectation and judgment, and living life as it comes and unfolds. It can be a challenge but it is what I'm striving for.
That said, I wanted to offer a different perspective after reading your story, if I may. Please don't take this the wrong way, it is just meant to present an alternate way of interpreting this situation and that making assumptions or having expectations can get us in trouble.
First, for me the bottom line: "So I have come to the conclusion that this man makes me feel bad even as a cycling friend.:-( ". That's all you need. If a person makes you feel badly repeatedly, it's time to cut out. His disappearance for 25 minutes to text without explaining why is extremely rude, and he should have apologized and said "I'm SO sorry to be gone for so long, please forgive me. I had some urgent business to attend to". The fact that he felt no need to explain speaks volumes and shows just where he is in his life.
BTW, I don't think we should jump to conclusions that he was texting another woman. While that is a distinct possibility, he could have dealing with a contractor working on his house, or a sick family member, or a business thing that he had to tie up some loose ends on. Heck, maybe he's filing for bankruptcy! He did not want to tell you what the issue was, obviously. He should have apologized. He was inconsiderate. Yes, he may have been texting a girlfriend but you've already made it clear that you are "just friends".
Either way, his lack of an apology and your history with him has made you feel badly so time to remove yourself. I think it is important to just go with your gut in these situations.
Also, I did just want to add that I do not always make vague plans with people/friends as to when I'll be seeing them the next time. Sure, usually we part with a pleasant: "So good to see you! I hope we can do this again!" But sometimes months or years pass before I see these people again. We're all very busy in this 24-7 world: kids, work, elderly parents. I think true friendship is when we can go months or years without seeing a friend and when we get together, it's like no time went by.
But when we have expectations of people, this doesn't happen. And I just wanted to point out that you may still have expectations for this man, which can get you into trouble. Mirror teaches that we can't control people, we can only control ourselves and this is so true. For me, letting go of expectations is hard but with age, I am getting better at it and thus feeling happier and more content.
I don't mean to discourage you or not acknowledge that your feelings were hurt by the cyclist guy's behavior. As I said before, if he makes you feel like crap, it's not worth it. But if you let him go, don't take his behavior personally, and put him squarely into the "casual friend" category in your mind, I think you'll feel better about this situation. With age, time is more fleeting - I am letting go of people, letting them be who they are, and not letting their actions affect my peace of mind. This perspective has helped me tremendously with the D.M. who brought me to this board.
OK, I hope I did not insult anyone with the above. :-) Best to all...and happy spring!
Mirror do you think that jealousy in a man is a classic sign of insecurity? If a man admits to you that he gets jealous and when he is with a woman he does not want any other man looking at her, looking at what's his. Hmmmm seems to me that he doesn't want her to see his lack of qualities as a man and she might find it in another and leave him in the dust. If that's the case why would a man reveal that sort of information to a woman he's interested in, to me that would be revealing a weakness and for someone like him that openly admitted to like having control in his relationships that's a No No. I should mention that he is Hispanic and Hispanic men have that macho behavior going on. What is your take on this Mirror?
-- Jennifer
@The Ladies,
While I agree, there could be a multitude of reasons that Hopeful's man disappeared into the restroom, this is a good example of the benefits of long term observation - and the ability to take his past behavior into account. His past behavior kinda indicates that innocent reasons for disappearing like that would be in the lower percentile of probability most likely. When taking his past behavior observed over a length of time into consideration, issuing the benefit of doubt to a man that's displaying himself repeatedly as a less than honorable man is dangerous territory that often leads to getting hurt.
That's the beauty of observation. It gives you much greater insight into the overall character of the individual, the big picture view - versus looking at occurrences as singular events and then writing them off individually as explainable.
Had the man been an honorable man previously, then the odds of this event being a rather innocent exchange in the bathroom would be much higher and the risk of issuing him the benefit of doubt would be much lower - thereby, earning himself trust and proving himself reliable. But given his past behavior, his odds drop dramatically and the risk kinda skyrockets - thereby, earning himself nothing and proving himself unreliable LOL. This is just another instance of a lot of disrespectful instances this man has displayed over time. Friends or not it's just rude and his lack of acknowledging it was a bit bizarre.
If the expectation here is for him to disappoint you Hopeful, then I think you've hit the jackpot - this guy can clearly deliver on that one LOL ;-) And regardless of whether you had expectations here, his behavior is just strange. I mean, I have friends and none of them ever disappear for almost a half hour like that - unexplained. Even if it were a personal matter, it would be acknowledged, not ignored as if it never happened, and an apology would be issued. The fact that he did not behave or react as a normal, innocently tied up individual would after an incident like this combined with all his sketchy behavior in the past tells me that this guy is just trouble on some level - and being friends with him is dangerous for you in that, you may still be vulnerable here - and this man is simply consistently not proving himself trustworthy.
But more important than anything above is as chk61 stated...you're simply not having fun with this man or enjoying the time spent with him. Even on a friendship level, his behavior is still showing signs of ignorance and disrespect. If one of my male friends left me at a table like that for a half hour and then came back and never acknowledged it and no emergency had happened...I'd seriously think about excusing myself prior to the end of the meal and leaving LOL. I've been known to do that before LOL. Not in this particular circumstance, but I did leave a dinner once when I just couldn't take this obnoxiously rude man anymore - and I left the restaurant and went next door....shopping LOL ;-)
As chk61 said Hopeful, this man isn't worth it. He has absolutely nothing to offer you, even on a friendship level, as he's not even concerned about showing respect to YOU or your friendship after disappearing like that. I doubt you would behave in that manner towards a friend without explanation or apology - and you should expect no less for yourself in return :-)
@The Ladies,
Excellent advise here ladies on a mental process designed to help you move through your feelings and acknowledge loving yourself:
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13677/8-things-i-say-most-often-to-my-therapy-clients.html
"The process that I use is called Inner Bonding, which teaches people how to love themselves. As loving themselves becomes a way of life, their anxiety, depression, guilt, shame, anger, fear, addictions and relationships gradually heal."
@Mirror and ladies:
Hopeful's story reminded me of a female friend I had to "break up" with in the past year. We had met about 4 years prior. I think I may have mentioned her on this board before. Recently when processing this brief friendship, I remembered feeling her "vibe" the very first time we met within a group of people on a day ski trip and the first impression I got was "not friendly, competitive, tough girl persona." When we were introduced I immediately felt this, because the look on her face was not warm or friendly, it was like she was ready for battle!
When we became friends, she softened a lot and in the beginning, things were pretty good but it became clear over time she was VERY competitive, constantly judging/criticizing everyone, including her friends, and deciding where they fell on her hierarchy of friends. She had one friend on a pedestal and no one else measured up. I felt I was constantly being compared to her "BFF".
Over time her competitive and extremely insecure side came out, and with that came the fangs and claws. I tend to be a "people pleaser" and we were "friends" so I hung in there for a while but then I realized I was just allowing her to mistreat me and I was putting up with it. I finally confronted her in a diplomatic way and she just kept swinging! (with verbal insults) That was during one of the worst weekends in my life when I was supposed to be having a good time in a beautiful resort town with a "friend". Ugh, painful memories.
She attempted a really lame apology but never took responsibility for the things she said to me and the way she treated me leading up to that weekend. So I just stopped contacting her. It has now been 8 months since we last spoke. It has been difficult and I'm still healing from it but I realize it was truly best to just get away from her. She was toxic and made me feel like crap. Who needs that?
As Mirror said, loving ourselves is extremely important. The act of removing yourself from a toxic relationship with anyone is truly an act of self-love. :-)
Hello Ladies!
I've been reading from the sidelines lately ( I love this site) and have been following everyone's updates. I wish now that I had posted a few weeks ago when all was groovy.
Alas, in a mere 24 hours, I learned
1. The Aries that brought me here (and was planning the big family Superbowl road trip that I prevented) is engaged to someone he met at the end of February. *sigh*
2. My ex husband has moved a girlfriend into his home
3. The cute runner guy - who has pursued me, done everything in the most old-fashioned, respectable way and was hinting about a serious future, has decided to accept the ( wonderful) job offer with a new company that will take him back out to Seattle ASAP. He mentioned last week that it might be time for a "possible change in jobs" but didnt mention anything else.
Sigh.
On a positive note, Gemini 50: I shared with a group of undergrad girls how ( after reading your New Years Post) I don't respond to social texts during the work day... anyway, several of these girls have mentioned to me that THEY too have started not responding right away to texts and they all agree that it seems to make their lives easier :)
Back to figuring out how to take my mind off the 3 bombshells of news I received last night....
@ Heidi,
Thank you for your comment to me... it's something tangible from all this (f'n hard at times) work I'm doing on me, and lifted my spirits today. Thank you.
WOW! You got hit with three big-doozies... breath girl, breath. When I first read your post, I thought, "It's not about the guys that's important, it's Heidi that is important." Put yourself first sweety. And just because cute runner guy is moving, who knows what that will mean. Take care of Heidi first, and see what happens.
Hugs :-)
@Heidi:
Oh dear, isn't the saying "good things come in threes"? That is a lot of emotional information to process in 24 hours! I'm sorry for what you must be feeling. Re: the Aries getting engaged after only two months? Hmmm...
sounds like a bit of a whirlwind. Let's see how that one goes.
And yes, what Gemini50 said about the cute runner guy. Who knows what the future holds? And to echo what she said....if you're feeling sad or stressed about this, breeeeaaathe. Slowly, in and out, savor the breath and let it bring you right back to what is happening now. Go outside, gaze at some clouds, smell some flowers, smile at a baby, eat some ice cream. You know the drill. :-)
It's spring and a time for new beginnings. Maybe this is a sign of something even better to come. Time for us all to plant a few new seedlings. I'm thinking good thoughts for you, for me and for all the ladies here. :-)
@Heidi,
From chk61, "Aries getting engaged after only two months? Hmmm...sounds like a bit of a whirlwind. Let's see how that one goes."
I feel the same exact way dear. While I understand that a two month courtship sounds romantic, the reality is that these two are complete and total strangers. They cannot possibly fully know one another. I just read a study the other day that stated, on average, it takes four years to completely get to know someone. They're both on their best behavior now because the relationship is new and they got swept off their feet and now they're engaged.
But what happens when they start to discover things about one another later on down the line and emotions and sides of the individual never seen before start to surface ya' know? Will they still feel the same? Who knows.
Back in the day that type of thing happened often and surprisingly, it often worked out. But in this day and age, with this idea of instant gratification looming large in society and this notion that everything is disposable...yea, not so sure about the chance of success there. Back in the day when people made a marriage commitment like that, they toughed it out and stayed together. But we now live in different times.
I know a couple who did that and two years later....done. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. But it seems like a rather impulsive decision. And that's a BIG decision to be making impulsively like that. Only time will tell dear, but either way, look at it like this....you're FREE.
You're now free of entanglement with him. Free to release any residual emotions, free to move on. Sometimes dear, the universe is forced to make room in our lives, forced to "clean house" for us...out with the old...to make room for the new :-)
Hi Heidi,
I agree it's a tall order that the Aries guy will live happily ever after with this new lady...it's a bit of a shocker to hear though, especially with the two other pieces of big news...but nothing is set in stone and all or any of those bombshells, well you just can't predict what's going to happen there...
Sometimes the universe does shake things up and sometimes it is to help us let go of what is no longer serving us...
but I think also when the status quo is shaken up it can help take us to the next stage and enforce positive change in our lives...
So you know with the runner guy, it might not be as bad as sounds...nothing is set in stone and if you're meant to be together somehow, someway, eventually you will be :)
I'd watch this space with regard to the Aries guy and his new lovelife I think there will be many twists and turns LOL
The universe
@ Heidi...
One guy that I was in a relationship with for a couple of years, and had broken up with me twice, ended up getting engaged to someone five months after meeting her. And that was after our last break up where he said he wanted to be single and enjoy life on his own since he was turning 40.
They were supposed to get married two years ago....it was postponed. Then it was supposed to happen THIS year, and I heard that it's been postponed again.
I cut all contact with him after the second break up, so I heard about this stuff second hand from mutual friends. I have to laugh, b/c things that happen that fast don't usually pan out. Granted, these two are still living together, but I highly doubt they'll make it to the alter.
@The Ladies and Heidi,
There's an old saying gals, "The flame that burns twice as bright - burns half as long."
Meaning, when things start off fast and furious with lots of passion...they tend to burn out just as quickly. I've seen it many times. And I've also seen lots of men "act out" in a sense after a lengthy relationship that ends in a breakup by running to the alter with the next woman, only to trip and fall when actually trying to get there or doing so once they're in it.
It's almost as if they're like, "Yea, I want to be single!" And then they're single and missing you, or a woman in general, and they begin to think, "Hmm, maybe I was wrong. I messed up with the last one, she'll never take me back, so I better snatch up the next one that comes along to make sure that doesn't happen again."
And I have a similar example of just that. I lived with this guy for two years (big mistake), and he started to pull away. I knew what this meant, so I let him go. About two weeks later, he contacts me in an attempt to come back and reconcile and out of the blue, he issues me this hypothetical threat (because I wasn't having him back) and says to me, "What if I moved in with a woman who owned a home with no mortgage?"
Okay, big red flag there - this guy was CLEARLY looking for a woman to support him and keep a roof over his head and nothing more, which is probably the only reason he was with me. I mean, this jag didn't even refer to this woman by her name, he called her "the girl in the house with no mortgage." Umm, okay LOL.
So I sarcastically respond to him with, "Well, if you know a woman who lives in a house with no mortgage, you'd better marry her immediately before she realizes what you're REALLY like and tosses you out on your ass."
So what happens next? Four months later, he marries a woman...who lives in a house...with no mortgage LOL!! And this was a man who lived with the mother of his child prior to his involvement with me for 5 years - without ever marrying her. Now, I have no idea if these two are still together or not, he moved far away, out into the middle of nowhere on a desolate farm. Turns out, the woman was living in an old farmhouse on a family farm that had about 2-3 family homes on it I think. So Mr. Video Game Man ended up in the middle of nowhere, without an Internet connection to play them, surrounded by cows and corn...in a house with no mortgage LOL.
And if they are still together, my guess would be that's because he's able to leave that desolate farm and travel far and wide without her - to cheat on her. Hell, it's an hour or so trip just to his mom's house from that place. He could say he's going to visit mom, and stop off for an hour, just long enough to "do" another woman, then go visit mom, take 5 minutes to stop at a convenience store to pick up toothpaste, and go back to the farm and tell the new wifey, "Oh I had to stop for toothpaste and the place was crazy, I spent 45 minutes just navigating traffic and standing in line." BOOM, coverage provided, no missing time - eating his damn good cake. If he can have his cake and eat it too, he's the kind of guy that would consider that the ideal situation.
When folks are impulsive like that and careless about very big decisions in life, most times, they're generally being compelled to do so....by all the wrong reasons.
So here's to all the jackasses of the world, living large on the farm, with the girl's "who live in the houses with no mortgages" - way to go - you ambitious go-getter's LOL!!! ;-)
@The Ladies,
Gals, you've gotta' watch this short video. It's a father...issuing a message "To the boys who may one day date my daughter....I have been waiting for you."
http://youtu.be/KcIwZ1Dth0c
"I have been seeding her childhood with taproot hugs to weed out indifference and apathy. There will be no daddy issues for your teenage talons to latch upon.
If you break her heart, I will hear it snap with the ear that I pressed against her mother's belly. The elbow I cradled her head in will send a message to my fists. My cheeks are in tune to her lips....I WILL KNOW IF THEY TREMBLE.
I have been teaching her love all her life - and all that I ask is that you continue the lesson."
This man is bald and covered in two arm sleeves of tattoos. He's at a poetry slam...and I believe him LOL.
If only every woman could have a man like this in her childhood...
Hi MOA,
My ex and I have been texting back and forth for a month now, some friendly, some a little more flirty. This is following a month of NC in which I broke up with him and he texted first to "see how I was doing".
A little more than a week ago he asked me about my love life, so I gave him the impression it was ok and that I was seeing other guys. He told me his love life was "pretty stagnant" and he's had a few dates here and there. He also asked if the guys were treating me well, to which I responded "So far! Let's hope they keep it up ;P". Since then, we haven't spoken, which is unusual given we usually text every few days.
Everywhere I've looked online says that when a woman is in the initial stages of moving on, but is still friendly/flirty with a guy, his interest will increase because it seems like she is unavailable and moving on without him and that may make him a little jealous/insecure, which will eventually cause him to chase her more. Also I thought that him asking me if I was being treated well was him being protective/a little jealous.
If this is the case, then why do you think he suddenly stopped texting me? I do want to reconcile, but I want him to work for it. I don't want to have to chase him (especially if he really did meet someone new), or make him think I don't have options.
The problem when we broke up is we lost that spark, so should I reach out eventually if he does not (because "technically" we are on friendly terms), or will that make me seem desperate for his attention? Cheers.
Hi Ms Mirror,
I posted recently about a guy that was supposed to be calling me in a view to possibly meet...he ignored my last txt and we came to the conclusion that this guy was a manipulator game player of sorts...
I won't go back over old ground...but there has been communications since...I wrote him off and I actually contacted Match and they ran a few checks...as I was suspicious that this could be a fake profile...they couldn't find anything obvious but were going to keep a eye on it.
I also wondered whether this guy was not genuine (if he wasn't a fake) in terms of whether he was feigning interest and manipulating...
but I decided to let it go...anyway 6 days later after ignoring my text (that was a reply to his) he text me. Now it's not the disappearance of the century and under different circumstances I may have viewed it differently. However, the facts are that he ignored my last text, he did not address that when he text me.
He just said 'good luck today with the football' he was talking about my team :) that were playing an important match. However, still no phone call or mention of it...
I was going to ignore it but later in the day when we won I was on a high of celebrations and I ended up texting back 'Yay thanks!!' I probably should have ignored it. Anyway the next day he text me Congrats and that he was on this different number and that if I text yesterday that he didn't receive it and that he was in a different country****
So I decided to ignore this one, I know he was going to visit this place on business very soon but before that he had told me he was flying home to sort out trouble in his offices. There is always a possibility that he flew direct to the place he is as he did have urgent business there with a client.
The fact of the matter still no phone even if he didn't go home this guy used to be an attorney and now he is in wealth management with two offices home and abroad. I can't see that this bloke would be strapped for cash if he is who he is. So if he wanted to be taken seriously he should have called.
Anyway so I decided to ignore his text and see what he next move would be if any. I got another text 3days later saying:
'Hi haven't heard from you, hope you are ok. Just letting you know I'll be in (where I live****) tomorrow - I have a business lunch meeting...but would be nice to meet if you're around :) (and yes I'll call you beforehand lol) his name x'
I just want to know what you make of the latest?? My thoughts are first off it's incredibly short notice now, considering that he lives about 2hrs away (train journey so about 3hrs drive) then I would have thought that this would be a good opportunity but he should be giving me good notice to ensure I'm available if he wants to see me. His business demands are erratic at the moment as there are majors problems with his home office but I cannot issue the benefit of the doubt here. He had already mentioned about the potential business trip to my area and meeting up, so if he has to organise to meet a client, I don't think he would be asking them to drop everything to meet the next day.
CONT...
Also this guy is an ex attorney come wealth management business man...there is always a possibility that when he text me 3days ago that if I'd text back then it would have been good notice for me to possibly meet him if I wanted to.... However, I didn't, but the fact of the matter is he should have sent that text then and put me in the picture then if he wanted to be able to meet me.
He's well aware that he should be ringing that's why he's acknowledging it in the text with a LOL but I've already told him previously on two occasions that I would not agree to meeting him until we had spoken.
I know I have written this post and it sounds like I don't believe this guy but I haven't ruled out the possibility that he is genuine...but I have to protect myself and I can't issue the benefit of the doubt.
If he is genuine then he is not helping himself at all and it makes me wonder sometimes I think men that are good in business are shit in relationships (not that he's in one if you know what I mean) but this guy has skills in communication due to his career but I'm not seeing this in how he is going about things LOL
However, I have decided that I am going to reply to this text in the possibility that this text off him is genuine and I'm wondering what to put. I was thinking of something along the lines of it being short notice and I'm just thinking now that I think I could just try and call his bluff here and maybe say something like, 'Well if you want to meet up then you'll have to call me first but I can't promise anything as short notice' and give him a final chance to step up and call, just to see if he calls really... I don't think it would be a good idea to meet him as such short notice but it's a shame if he is genuine as it's a good opportunity given the long distance but I can't even rule out that this latest text is genuine either.
What do you think Mirror, could you give me some advice on what I could text back??? to handle this in the best way, even though you would probably not text back LOL but given that I think I'm going to :)
Thank you
Hi Ms Mirror,
Just to add to my last post (about the ex attorney/wealth management, I don't want to say something that would give him the impression that I've bought this proposal that it's genuine I mean.... As this guy may have no intention of meeting me, calling me and might just be getting off on trying to manipulate, fool and deceive women to gain power...
and I don't know if he's trying to use this erratic business life as a smoke screen for his erractic behaviour and potential instability. He's been telling me a lot about his crazy business career, so it makes me wonder now that this last minute meeting for tomorrow that it may have been orchestrated in the aim that he will be hoping - oh well she knows my business is a bit crazy at the moment I can string her along some more...
...as you may of guessed I'm really torn of what is the truth here but I need to cover myself and I don't want to be conned and made a fool of...
and so in my reply I don't want to give the impression that I've fallen for it just in case it's not genuine but then on the other I want to leave it open just in case he is genuine...
umm what to put it's a tricky balancing act...the only thing I can think of is maybe to just say: Well if you want to meet me then you'll have to call me first - but then he's going to think I've fallen for it, So maybe saying something like repeating what I've already said - We would have to speak before I would agree to meeting OR you would have to call me first before I would even think about agreeing to meet you as I do not know you...
Should I just ignore mentioning that it's short notice?? as that gives the impression again that I am willing to meet up with him?
Thank you
What do you think ob
@Anonymous May 15, 1:41 AM,
"If this is the case, then why do you think he suddenly stopped texting me?"
It's only been a little over a week dear. You're not in a relationship with him, so you can't expect relationship type communication (i.e. daily, regularly). I wouldn't look at this as if he's stopped texting you. I'd look at it as, he's distracted at the moment...but he'll be back.
"I do want to reconcile, but I want him to work for it."
Then that's what you do, you make him work for it to PROVE to you that he's genuinely interested. And in order for you to do that effectively, you have to cease attempting to control the situation and the speed at which it unfolds by jumping in to move things along. If you're the one driving the relationship like that, then he does not have the opportunity to do so, ya' know?
"should I reach out eventually if he does not"
You're free to do as you please here, however, re-read what I just wrote above. If you jump in to take control of the speed at which this unfolds, then you're never going to know if he's genuinely interested because once you do that, you remove the opportunity for him to prove that.
You have to give things time and space to grow organically, and without interruption or attempts to control that. And you also have to give plenty of time for this to sink in with him so that he can experience any feelings he may have for you during that space and time. Men do NOT bond like women do. Women bond through constant contact and interaction, physical time spent and so on. Men however bond during periods of absence. While they're in the moment, they do experience feelings, however, men experience their feelings even more during times of absence, which is why so many of them ask for space all the time. They tend to like to go away and see if they actually DO feel something while they are away. If they don't, they'll move on. If they do, they'll come back.
But this entire process doesn't unfold in a week or two or even three. Sometimes dear, it takes months for a man, or anyone for that matter, to fully process their emotions, understand them and understand what they mean, and then decide what actions to take next, if any at all. So it could be another month or two before any of that happens and he decides what he's really feeling here, if anything at all.
Sit tight dear. Don't reach out. Women tend to feel the need to "do, do, do" for a man. Don't do that. Instead, do, do, do - for YOURSELF. And let him work out his own issues and emotions without you and without your intervention or influence. That's the only way you're going to know if his interest is genuine or not dear and that's the only way he'll know if he's truly feeling anything or not - and if he is, let him be the man here and take the lead :-) And if that doesn't happen, well, then you have your answer.
@Anonymous May 15, 8:17 AM,
"I know I have written this post and it sounds like I don't believe this guy but I haven't ruled out the possibility that he is genuine...but I have to protect myself and I can't issue the benefit of the doubt."
Maybe he is genuine dear, but here's the real issue....is this guy signaling the he's able to actually fulfill your needs in any way, shape or form and that he cares about YOU, your time and your convenience and whether or not he even HAS time to date properly? Or is he signaling that it's all about him, his time, his convenience and a little crumb of attention when he can "squeeze" you in?
Because to me, even if this guy is genuine, he's coming across as arrogant, unconcerned, a bit selfish and a very busy man here. Is that the kind of guy you wish to become emotionally involved with? Can you see a future dating a man who barely has time to speak, let alone see you? And a guy who will "squeeze" you into convenient travel plans for himself when he has a crumb of his time to offer, and expecting you to drop everything and be on call for him?
This guy is coming across as very unavailable to date properly, with very little time to invest in dating and/or a relationship. And beyond that, he's not making dating a priority, he's squeezing it in. If you get involved with a man like this emotionally, this is probably what you can expect to experience with him. So will that make YOU happy? Will that fulfill YOUR needs?
That's what you need to be thinking about here dear - YOUR happiness and whether or not this man can add to it....or whether or not being involved with him will simply dampen it.
"sometimes I think men that are good in business are shit in relationships"
You and me both dear. There have actually been studies conducted on business leaders. And many of them cite that those that are successful in business, both men and women, tend to have psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies. Because in order to be successful in business, you have to set your emotions aside. You have to be comfortable running people over to claw your way to the top. You have to be willing to devote huge amounts of time to your success, thereby, placing family, friends, etc. lower on the list. You have to be extremely driven, laser focused and extremely aggressive and you have to be "risk" oriented...you have to be willing to "risk" a lot of things to receive the success you're laser focused on. And if that's family, friends, children, love relationships...then that's what you do. You drop them like a hot potato and you stay laser focused on success and you do all of this - without much emotion. Because if your emotions are involved, they will affect your business decisions. And business decisions require logic, not emotion.
Why (Some) Psychopaths Make Great CEO's: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/14/why-some-psychopaths-make-great-ceos/
Cont...
Are CEO's and Entrepreneurs Psychopaths? Multiple Studies Say "Yes:" http://www.patheos.com/blogs/drishtikone/2013/10/are-ceos-and-entrepreneurs-psychopaths-multiple-studies-say-yes/
10 Professions That Attract the Most Sociopaths: http://www.policymic.com/articles/44423/10-professions-that-attract-the-most-sociopaths
Number 2 on the list above dear? Yep, you guessed it - LAWYER:
"Lawyers cloak themselves in the language of their field, making the laymen reliant on their expertise to survive in a courtroom. In the fog of legalese linguistics and glibly twisted logic, you better pray your lawyer is the most bloodthirsty of the two. There's a reason Shakespeare hated them so much, and why they continue to be the butt of so many jokes. Lawyers have a reputation for distorting the systems of equality, specifically for the purposes of ensuring their financial success. For every white knight district attorney looking to uphold the pillars of justice, you are sure to find a handful of bleak-hearted cynics and cutthroats."
Number One: CEO's
Number Three: Media
Number Four: Salesperson
Number Five: Surgeon
Number Six: Journalist
Number Seven: Policeman
Number Eight: Clergyman
Number Nine: Chef
Number Ten: Civil Servant
"could you give me some advice on what I could text back?"
First dear, I would seriously ask that you consider whether or not this man is showing you that he's a man that would fulfill your needs and make you happy, if you were to become emotionally involved with him. That's the real issue here...do you think this man, given his ways and his limited availability he's already shown, would make you happy if you dated him?
Hi Mirror and all ladies,
@Gemini50
I am glad you are still here. I have already found your posts under different Mirror´s articles. Yes, you are right about the cyclist - he isn´t worth any effort and he never was. I genuinely wanted to befriend him as I don´t have many options here and also, he likes cycling and actually did go with me. But his repetitive impoliteness gets me down, I have had enough of it, so yes, it´s time to cut him out. :-(
@Mirror and Chk61
Thank you for your kind words of support. I agree with everything you wrote. And I must say, this man is a mystery to me as I have realised that after a considerably long history with him I know next to nothing about him. I suspect that he went to the restroom because he wanted to provoke insecurity and jelousy in me because in my opinion he can´t stand it that he hasn´t achieved anything with me - we were never intimate - and that I personally am able to be his friend regardless. So by being impolite he tried to put me down and kind of revenge on me for not dancing attendance to him and I guess that´s all and that I will never hear from him. That´s how I sense it. So Mirror´s advice to tell him I have met somebody probably won´t be used.:-( I am really curious if he will ever contact me again.
Men are definitely different creatures. My thinking went like this: He is alone, I am alone, he doesn´t want a serious relationship while I do, okay, we have different expectations, but we are mature people who can look at things from a broader perspective, we can talk together about different things and get on quite well so let´s be friends at least and go cycling from time to time. And in an emergency, we could turn to one another for help. And it would have worked if he hadn´t been disrespectful. Or perhaps if he had been only a little impolite and regretted it later, it would have been bearable. But he was repeatedly and deliberately rude. You are right, he should have apologised for leaving me at the table waiting for him. It was really rude and I am still angry. I understand very well how Chk61 must have felt around her arrogant girlfriend, such people are simply not worth it. And Mirror,he knew I couldn´t leave because he had left his car keys on the table for me to look after them.
Well, that´s the end of my seemingly neverending story. I think the wisest thing was that I didn´t sleep with him. So be careful , ladies, and as Mirror repeats - don´t hurry, tread slowly and cautiously and look after yourselves.
I wish you all a nice day,
Hopeful
Hello Dearest MOA,
I have been reading all the comments on this thread and only have about a thousand to go, lol! I have learned so much thanks to your wonderful website; I feel so much more confident & empowered now! It’s been a little over 2 months since I dumped a Taurus [who I was with for a couple months & hadn’t had sex with] & began NC, and he has not tried to contact me once, just as I figured he wouldn’t. However, I now see thanks to you that he was unwilling to man-up and make me happy, he was insecure, and he was just emotionally immature all-around. He has potential, though, so maybe in a few years our paths will cross once more, and who knows what will happen if it’s truly meant to be. For now I’ve just been casually chatting with other guys. My heart is still a bit hung up on Taurus so I don’t really feel excited enough to go on actual dates. So anyhow, my question is: I have been implementing mirroring/the guy has to always initiate as well (of course). However, I’m wondering if it’s painfully transparent that I am replying in the exact same amount of time that it took the guy to text me-- won’t he sort of think I’m crazy? Today I keep going back and forth with a guy who has potential-- but we’re both taking exactly an hour to reply lol He is rather intelligent and I don’t want him to think I’m being childish as we’re just starting to get to know each other. Thanks for any advice, and thank you for pulling me out of darkness. God bless xoox
@Virgo,
"I’m wondering if it’s painfully transparent that I am replying in the exact same amount of time that it took the guy to text me-- won’t he sort of think I’m crazy?"
It doesn't have to be the same exact amount of time dear...take a bit longer from time to time and mix it up ;-)
"Today I keep going back and forth with a guy who has potential-- but we’re both taking exactly an hour to reply lol. He is rather intelligent and I don’t want him to think I’m being childish as we’re just starting to get to know each other."
Why worry about what a strange man thinks about YOU, who is HIMSELF doing the same EXACT thing dear? You're worried he'll think you're childish. Well, he's doing it too. Do you think HE is worried about what YOU will think of HIM?
No, he probably not dear :-) He's a stranger. Who cares what he thinks of you. And if he ever has the nerve to bring that up and mention it to you, you can simply point out that HE is guilty of the very SAME behavior - so who's wrong and who's right there, ya' know? People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. And if they do, it's because they're immature and not self-aware of their OWN behavior.
What's good for the goose, is good for the gander dear. He's doing it to you, and as they say, all is fair in love and war. Don't worry about what he thinks about you. He should be worried about what you think of him ;-)
Thank you ALL for every last bit of support and thoughtful message. I truly appreciate them and apologize for my delayed response. I have been off-line and happily unplugged for a few days.
It has been an interesting week for certain & I am a firm believer that all things happen for a reason.
Cheers to spring, sunshine, fresh air, a "clean house" , fresh slate and new beginnings !
Happy Friday ( and hugs) to all.
Hi Ms Mirror @Anonymous May 15, 8:17 AM,
Thank you for your reply about the ex-attorney guy who can't pick up the phone LOL...you've given me lots of food for thought :) I'm not ready yet to do a full post update...I'm feeling a bit drained with it to be honest and I just wanted a break from it but wanted to thank you before time goes on... I have heard off him again and I have ignored again it's a bit ridiculous but I will post soon if and when I can be bothered talking about it LOL
...but just wanted to thank you in the meantime
Here you go ladies, spoken by the Queen herself LOL - never settle for second best: http://youtu.be/GsVcUzP_O_8
Lyrics to "Express Yourself" by Madonna:
Come on girls
Do you believe in love?
'Cause I got something to say about it
And it goes something like this
Don't go for second best baby
Put your love to the test
You know, you know, you've got to
Make him express how he feels
And maybe then you'll know your love is real
You don't need diamond rings
Or eighteen karat gold
Fancy cars that go very fast
You know they never last, no, no
What you need is a big strong hand
To lift you to your higher ground
Make you feel like a queen on a throne
Make him love you till you can't come down
Long stem roses are the way to your heart
But he needs to start with your head
Satin sheets are very romantic
but What happens when you're not in bed
You deserve the best in life
So if the time isn't right - then move on
Second best is never enough
You'll do much better baby on your own
Express yourself
You've got to make him
Express himself
Hey, hey, hey, hey
So if you want it right now, make him show you how
Express what he's got, oh baby ready or not
And when you're gone he might regret it
Think about the love he once had
Try to carry on, but he just won't get it
He'll be back on his knees -To express himself
What you need is a big strong hand
To lift you to your higher ground
Make you feel like a queen on a throne
Make him love you till you can't come down
So please
Express yourself - You've got to make him
Express himself
Hey, hey, hey, hey
So if you want it right now, make him show you how
Express what he's got, oh baby ready or not
Express yourself - You've got to make him
So you can respect yourself
Hey, hey
So if you want it right now, then make him show you how
Express what he's got, oh baby ready or not
And just for the record ladies, it's worth taking note of...Madonna is the Queen of female reinvention. She has lived her life constantly changing and morphing. At least once every single decade - she bursts forth onto the scene as someone entirely new - with a fresh new approach.
And while she may not be the Queen of lifelong relationships, she also doesn't need one to be happy - because she's the Queen of HERSELF.
Her success and happiness stems from within and from her own hand, and leaves others clamoring just to be photographed by her side ;-)
Update:
Mirror bad news about my disappearing man " John" well I have not heard from him in about 3 weeks but I didnt stress it and when he disappeared so did I. Hey if he wants me then he knows how to reach me plus his disappear/ reappear act was getting old and I was really losing interest. Well last night I got home from work and as I said in previous posts him and I have mutual friends in common as well as close family ( his mother and my cousin are family and they go on vacation together). Anyways my cousin is like call me ASAP, so I call and she tells me well his mom called me on Mother's Day and I though it was to wish me Happy Mother's Day and she tells me she's going to be a grandmother. My cousin freaks out and goes WHAT..... she's like yup he got some girl pregnant where he lives ( we don't live in the same state). His mother did not know that him and I were talking, he is well off and he was recently screwing around with some chick younger than him. Well my cousin asked do you know the girl and she said no never met her, she said he was single for a while but this must be some chick he was banging recently without using protection. She said the girl is about a month or so pregnant and her family is forcing him to MARRY her, she is some socialite and they don't want her pregnancy to ruin their image I guess. When I heard that my heart sort of dropped but honestly was not all that surprised. I had a feeling something was going on but I knew that in time all would reveal itself and it sure did. So now he is forced to marry this girl that he admitted to his mother he doesn't know all that well, they just slept together. His mother of course being disappointed and upset ripped him a new one, he isn't a child and him being the man and older should know better. He wanted a piece and he got it " for the rest of his life".
You know after I called my best friend to tell her I did cry but then something strange happened I felt relieved like a weight had been lifted from me. All the doubt , all the insecurity, all the bullshit and I began to laugh. I couldn't hold it back and neither could my GF, I laughed my ass off. This man is going to be miserable for the rest of his life stuck with a woman he doesn't even know or care for and with a child. What an embarrassment for him, for a man that is so worried about what other people think of him and his reputation. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! As I was on my way to work I couldn't help but smile and laugh to myself. His misery is his Karma!! Your right MOA Karma is a woman and her name is BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.
Now I haven't heard form him in 3 weeks or so I presume he is still in shock about the pregnancy and the forced marriage but I have a gut feeling this is not over, I'll hear from him sometime in the future. And he will get the same response he gave to me months ago when he first disappeared which is --SILENCE. He made his bed now he has to lay in it and the funny thing is I have a sneaking suspicion he will NEVER forget me
( the one that got away). He had an opportunity with me and he didn't take it so he chose someone easy and look what he got some 23 year old socialite that only knows how to spend mommy and daddy $$$$ and party. He is fucked and will probably be divorced with in a year, everyone is taking bets. HAHAHA
As I sit here typing this I give myself a pat on the back and smile. WHY? because in the end he taught me a great lesson.... to never for less than I am worth. :)
Not feeling broken up about it, but I know him not being able to have me and him being stuck is going to irk him to no end. Mirror do these guys ever forget the women that got away? The women that were good women and loved them but they just played with their feelings? Does it come full circle for them?
-- Jennifer
@Jennifer,
"Mirror do these guys ever forget the women that got away? The women that were good women and loved them but they just played with their feelings?"
I can't really speak for them dear, but yea, I believe this live with this regret based on what I've seen. It's so rampant, the regret later in life, that I have a pet name for it - the Shoulda', Woulda', Coulda' Club.
"I really shoulda'....If I only woulda'...If I just coulda" - it's alive, well and kicking dear. And that club usually includes a recliner and a six pack, LOL.
And as a matter of fact, here's one for all you Facebooker's out there. For the last two weeks, a guy I grew up with has been posting huge, very long, very personal posts....about his regrets in life. Women he treated poorly, regrets not having a family, is wondering what his purpose here on earth is, is wondering why he is the way he is. It's something I'll tell ya. I feel for him to an extent and hope that mentally, he's okay. But then again, he's a grown man that has free will and is in charge of his own actions and behavior...and those things do eventually catch up with most of us.
Just like it did with your DM dear - who's now locked in and fully loaded - gearing up for the ride of his life LOL ;-)
Hahaha, your right MOA he is definitely locked in and fully loaded. He got what he wanted which was something easy, hope it was worth it. But I know he must feel like shit if he's still not in shock. He got what he deserved the player got played big time..... Ugh I do have a sneaking suspicion that he will contact me again, he doesn't know that I know. I swear it feels like a Lifetime movie or something.
-- Jennifer
Mirror: Thanks for posting the lyrics to Express Yourself, I re-read them as I sang the tune to myself. It was good to see the printed lyrics on the page and really internalize what they say. Wow. So simple, yet so profound.
For me, I feel a tide turning. Yup, feeling pretty optimistic, centered and happy. Must be all the May flowers and sunshine. :-)
HI Mirror - I hope my post gets through I keep trying and it doesn’t work. Reading your blog has changed the course of my action. I had a guy pursue me, ask me out, we had the most amazing 7 hour date of a lifetime, I couldn’t believe it. He kissed me, said a lot of nice things. But Looking back big red flag the first thing he did when I sat down was say “ I was in a relationship for 9 years and 5 years into it she had extreme anxiety and then 4 years of trying to help her, in the end they broke up...then we went on to tell me about a recent holiday Romance with another woman....i was thinking, shit this is a bit heavy I just came our for a beer. But we had a great time I figured he was nervous. He said one other thing to me that I have never experienced....he hugged me and said “I wouldn’t go home with you tonight even if you wanted to” WTF!! I just made light of it and said...it was never on the table mate. Laughed it off and continued to have fun. I went away on a business trip the next day for 3 weeks which I thought was perfect, he can have time to absorb. The LAST thing he said to me before we left was “Actions speak louder than words” he even missed his train to stay with me longer and paid a fortune to take a cab home. Who would do that if they weren't interested? Not me! This is where men really fuck with women's heads. So I go away and had one lackluster message from him, so I left it but immediately I felt something was off. SO I get back and send him a message saying Im back:) he writes back Nice one! Doesn’t ask me ANYTHING. So I thought forget it. Then 2 days later on sat night he messages me at 6PM and says “Hi what are you doing tonight” I told him I had plans and to have a nice night. The next day after bad advice from Australian women, who told me I was being cold don’t play games and give him a green light. I texted and said ...Would love to catch up again, give me a call when you have time if you would like to. He read it. 8 DAYS later, (I cried in between how could I get it so wrong and I really liked him) he texts me and says “heading up the coast for a week” at this point I found your blog. So I don’t respond of course.
About ten days later I get “Hi how are you?” I don’t respond. I want a man who at 41 can pick up the phone and talk to me. THEN...3 days later on a Sunday morning I get this.... “That’s good!!”
I never responded and that was 2 months ago....and nothing since. I know I did the right thing but partly I feel bad for ignoring him, but I had to. But Im still gutted.
What do you think mighty mirror??
Hi MOA,
It's Anonymous May 15, 1:41 AM...again, lol. In case you need a quick recap, I broke up with my ex 11 weeks ago, we lost that spark and he was taking me for granted, so I did the right thing and walked away and went total NC. He contacted me after a month, small talking as friends but with a bit of flirting. Just a couple weeks ago, he found out I was seeing other guys and he let me know he was seeing other girls but didn't seem happy about where that was going. Then after that, he disappeared completely, just did a total Houdini on me! I haven't reached out to him either.
I know you told me to wait until he reaches out and such, but I was wondering if you could explain what might be going on in his head now? There were so many signs that he was interested in me, and now us not talking, I feel could only increase his interest. So then why is he acting in a way that is the complete opposite of being interested?
I could really use your advice before I go do something I'll regret, I feel like I'm going bonkers with these "games" we play with our exes! Even more, I have to say that I feel disappointed in myself. I should mention here that this is my first breakup. The first time I did NC, I felt so hopeful and confident with my life, that I would meet someone new who would treat me the way I deserved to be treated. I did all those typical "what you should do after a breakup things"...work out, be with friends/family, get a new haircut, meet new men, etc. But now that he popped back into my life for a month, it's disappointing to see him disappear again. My ex and I had a great relationship for about a year up until the end, when things went downhill. And what girl wouldn't want her ex boyfriend to turn around and say "hey, I know I made a mistake, but I want to work things out"? And to be honest MOA, I thought that's exactly where it was headed...until he disappeared.
I want so badly to strike up a conversation with him after a month and just ask him to catch up over coffee, would this be a bad thing? After all, I was the one who broke up with him and technically "rejected" him, so how else could I show I'm interested in reconciling without appearing desperate? I've read a lot that the best thing to do though, is not to contact him at all because he will always perceive me as a backup and will not be forced to think about the breakup. So then why do I feel like I am the only one feeling such loss and pain? I feel like every day he must be forgetting about me and moving on, and now that it's been almost 3 months, I feel so disappointed in myself that I still have such feelings for this man. I want so badly to reconcile with him, but am trying to maintain some dignity here!
Please help :(
Hello ladies!
This blog is really amazing, all the posts have been so interesting, I loved reading them and seeing how things unfolded for so many of you!
Mirror, you are a Godsend to us all!
I am joining you here with my own little situation. Met a guy, gone on 3 dates but due to his work commitments they spread out over a month, but we always kept in touch messaging each other.
It was all chilled, spontanious and easy going but the last time I saw him he really had in mind to come back to my place.
It was just so transparent (insisting on meeting in my area, asking to come back to mine after dinner & drinks).
I made up an excuse as to why he couldn't come back to mine, but realistically I just wasn't comfortable with it.
He was due to go away for work then on holiday the following week so he mentioned possibly trying to meet in the days beforehand (Saturday or Sunday).
He had a major project on so I told him that we'll touch base and see.
No news from him during the weekend he said we may try to meet. He reappears on Monday explaining he had been working all weekend and was still at work that evening.
I wasn't impressed as I feel he could have sent me a message during the weekend to say he couldn't meet due to work instead of waiting Monday.
I waited a day to reply (for the sake of it) then sent him a friendly carefree text.
He replied straight away, we exchanged a few texts that evening then no news from him for 10 days.
He was going away for work then on holiday but still that doesn't cut it in my book.
He suddenly reappears 10 days later explaining he hadn't been in touch because 3 days ago a family member passed away, that he was distraught etc.
I waited a few hours then sent a sympathy message. Nothing emotional, very much the type you would send to an acquaintance (I only met him 3 times in my whole life!) but still a very nice one.
Not a thing from him for a nearly a week now...
Here is my dilemma... I know he lost a family member and I should be kind etc but I have a gut feeling that this guy isn't to be trusted and I can't help it. I had that gut feeling since the last time I saw him.
Then he disappears for 10 days... Now, though the tragedy occured 3 days prior to him contacting me, what happened during the prior 7 days of silence? No tragedy back then...
Am I too harsh? Please be honest as I have a tendancy to be pretty cut & dry with men.
I am not thinking he is lying about the tragedy that occured but I feel he is using this to justify his silence of 10 days.
And playing on a loss means I can't do nothing or blame him in anyway.
I know he will be in touch at some point, would it be ok for me to ignore him for a while or would I be a heartless bitch in this case?
Don't want to be too harsh but can't stand being taken for a fool which I feel is the case with him.
Many thanks ladies! You rock ;-)
"Damnblokes..."
@Kitten,
"bad advice from Australian women, who told me I was being cold don’t play games and give him a green light."
Why do women have a tendency to do this, it astounds me. It's like they think a green light has to be some big, gigantic bonk in the head in order for the man to get the hint. Men are NOT stupid. They know that if you're responding to them or sending them texts that say "I'm back" after returning from a long trip - that you're interested. I mean, who the hell would notify someone they didn't want to talk to or weren't interested in that they're back from a trip?
Ladies, you do NOT need to bonk a man over the head with some big, gigantic gesture to send a green light. Speaking to a man is a green light. Responding to a man is a green light. Signaling you'll see a man again is a green light. Anything less is NOT acting cold - but anything more IS acting desperate. I have no clue why so many women feel that women have to act desperate in order to bonk the man over the head with a green light.
I know she meant well dear. But at that moment she convinced you to ask him out and take the lead to control the speed at which this unfolds - she basically advised you to trade in your power and your mystic for the cloak of desperation. The result? An 8 day response period and rejection...let the games begin.
"I feel bad for ignoring him"
Don't dear. Because what I observed from his behavior that this other woman failed to was....he was playing games from the get-go. He was attempting to confuse you and gain the upper hand by immediately crawling into your head and planting seeds to bring your insecurities to the surface by making you feel bad about yourself....so that you'd try harder to win him over. That's how player types get women to practically jump into their laps, much like the Australian woman would've been prepared to do.
When a man fogs your mind and then starts dropping insults, or what the players and pick up artists call "negs" (negative comments), they expect you to begin to act desperately - and the Australian woman played right into that. And that's exactly what he was doing when he said “I wouldn’t go home with you tonight even if you wanted to.” And when he said “Actions speak louder than words” - that was meant for YOU. He dropped the neg, and he now expected YOU to take action on that, on your insecurity, and chase him.
"I get back and send him a message saying Im back:) he writes back Nice one! Doesn’t ask me ANYTHING."
That's another one dear. It's a pick up artists tactic:
"Talking to her in monosyllables and the Silent Treatment. Most women normally don’t like this. They enjoy steady conversation with their lovers and so once you start going monosyllabic on her she will immediately inquire to know if anything is the problem.
To make things worse for you, his replies to such inquires will also be in monosyllables and this might even be stretched into becoming some form of silent treatment.
I am aware that your mind goes spinning off the hook as you start wondering what is it that you've done wrong or where you have gone wrong."
It's a game dear. It's all a game. This guy was a total game player and honestly, it appears he read the damn book on it - and yes, there is a book:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html
"What do you think mighty mirror?"
I think this guy was a pick up artist game player and if I were you, I'd thank my lucky stars that I'm rid of him dear. Had you stuck around for more, it would've been a complete and total head trip with this guy. I would not feel bad one bit for ignoring this man.
@Anonymous May 26, 2:27 AM,
"I was wondering if you could explain what might be going on in his head now?"
Only he truly knows that dear, and it all depends on the level of his interest.
"why is he acting in a way that is the complete opposite of being interested?"
There could be a multitude of reasons and only time will tell. He could be distracted and having fun at the moment and running from his emotions. He could no longer be interested. He could be thinking that this is what's best for him at the moment. He could be thinking that he doesn't want a commitment. Or he could be waiting for when he truly does experience emotions for you that compel him to take action.
There are many variables dear. But this is the point of NC. It's to really filter out those that are interested from those that aren't. If he was taking you for granted prior to this, he could still be taking it for granted that when/if he decides he wants this back, it'll be there waiting for him. But you won't know that unless you sit tight.
"I feel like I'm going bonkers with these "games" we play with our exes"
It's not a game dear and you shouldn't look at it as such. It's you taking a stand for yourself and signaling that you deserve better treatment and that you don't deserve to be taken for granted. And that if a man does that to you, you're not afraid to walk away and find better. That's not a game dear, that's serious stuff.
"I felt so hopeful and confident with my life, that I would meet someone new who would treat me the way I deserved to be treated."
And you should. But....you shouldn't expect all of that to happen in only 11 short weeks dear. You can't grant the love of your life a short 2.5 month window of time and expect the universe to send him right through to you in that small window. You have to give things time and you have to give yourself time as well. Think about it....how can the universe think you're ready to meet the love of your life when you're clearly still hung up on your ex? If the universe did send the love of your life through to you in that moment, you might be so hung up on the ex that you pass him over. All things come in time dear, and they come when you're READY to receive them - not when you WANT to receive them :-)
"I want so badly to strike up a conversation with him after a month and just ask him to catch up over coffee, would this be a bad thing?"
Yes, it would. You would be putting yourself at serious risk. Risk of rejection. Risk of getting hurt. Risk of being taken advantage of again - because if it's YOU that initiates this, and it's you that keeps this relationship afloat, then how will he ever cease taking you for granted? If you do that, he will continue to take it for granted that you'll always be there, no matter how poorly he treats you.
"So then why do I feel like I am the only one feeling such loss and pain?"
Because you're not privy to seeing his side of it. You're lost in your own emotions and you're only seeing your side of it so you're assuming that he isn't suffering. And you should never assume anything in life dear.
Cont...
"I want so badly to reconcile with him"
I don't think that's truly what you want here. I think what you truly want here is to be able to take control of the situation in order to make yourself feel better dear and provide a short term fix versus waiting out the long term solution. Think about it. Do you REALLY want to be taken for granted again? Are you just dying to feel that way again? No, probably not. But you think that spending time with this man will somehow make you feel better. When the reality is that it will make you feel worse, much worse, when you do spend time with him again and see that nothing has changed.
Sit tight dear. If it's meant to be, it will be. If he wants you, he knows where to find you. And in the meantime, don't stop living and cease looking back into your past.
You can't see your future - when you're constantly looking over your shoulder at the past dear :-)
@Anonymous May 26, 6:58 AM,
"I have a gut feeling that this guy isn't to be trusted and I can't help it. I had that gut feeling since the last time I saw him."
Then that's what you listen to dear. Listen to your gut. It'll very rarely, if ever, steer you wrong.
"I know he will be in touch at some point, would it be ok for me to ignore him for a while or would I be a heartless bitch in this case? Don't want to be too harsh but can't stand being taken for a fool which I feel is the case with him."
No dear, that's not harsh - not for a man who doesn't bother to contact you about missing potential weekend plans - the Monday after the weekend is over. If he feels it's okay to not drop a line over the weekend as a courtesy to you, then it's fair game for you not to drop a response to him for a day or two. When men start to treat you as if they could care less about you, about your feelings, then it's fair game to treat them the same way.
And when they behave as if they could care less about you and your feelings, nine times out of ten, you end up caring less and less about them and theirs - which is exactly the way it should be. You get what you give in this world. So when you give little and you get little back - you shouldn't be surprised. HE shouldn't be surprised.
Oh Mirror,
Thank you so much for replying so fast to my query and being so pertinent!
You're amazing!
I must admit, since reading your blog this weekend I had a think about my past relationships, flings, etc.
You are so spot on!
Everytime I have shown I was upset by their behaviour, they disappeared completely.
Everytime I contacted a man who didn't treat me right in the past and gave them a second chance without them having to work for it, they just destroyed me even more!
And everytime I walked away or disappeared, they always came back! And by then, it was too late :-)
Life has taught me to be careful now but thanks to your blog, it just all makes sense!
Thanks again for your great work
Damnblokes
Thank you Mighty Aphrodite. I really appreciate it. I live in OZ but Im North American and things here are very different. Men do not approach women here - not like the US - When I go to NY for work I'm hit on left right and centre but here…not much! so it's really hard. I was trying to tell myself it's a cultural thing, and i should "give it a go" as they say but you are right in that the DNA does not change. Im just glad I found this blog and left with the upper hand I took my power back thanks to you:)…I still can't believe that he had the nerve to get miffed when I did not respond to him, after he ignored me. His comment "That's good!' was passive aggressive. I've read a lot about sarcasm and it comes from wounded people. Mirror the other thing is that I got 3 crank calls in that time I stopped responding to him. Someone blocked their number and was listening to me as I said "hello?" ….then I got another blocked call with a fake accent saying "why don't you call me, I thought you liked me, don't you like me anymore?…..it had to have been him with his "mates" having a laugh. I can't imagine some random calling my cell and saying that and I don't give my number to anybody. No wonder the woman he was with for 9 years (that he never married) had anxiety if I feel like this after one date!
Mirror and Ladies…ever hear of Dimitri the Stud? The guys runs pick up artist seminars in Toronto! Listen to this message he left a woman…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhofSilF05k……I looked into his background and he used to be a doctor that lost his license for sexually harassing female patients back in the 90's.
Wow, I also really appreciate you writing this article as well as other articles I have read. I'm a 24 year old virgin woman and I too have suffered from a guy I genuinely loved disappearing on me every year. Then he would pop back up at the beginning of the year and disappear after a few months. To make matters worse for me I was dating this guy online. I poured my heart out to him and didn't understand why he would disappear on me after a couple of months of talking to me like I was some kind of worthless trash. After reading your article I now see that I was truly the definition of boo boo the fool. My armor blow up and went up in flames for sure.It especially didn't help that all the other guys that have approached me just wanted to be friends with benefits until they found out I was a virgin.Then they too disappeared for the obvious reason of me not giving them my goodies. Wow, all I can say is that after reading your article I realize how more careful I have to be and how to better approach situations when it comes to dating guys. I kind of feel bad that I put myself out there to look like a fool. Like they say the truth hurts but what hurts you will make you stronger.
Dear Moa and Ladies,
reading through some of these questions and comments made me think that it actually sucks to be a woman! I mean we are emotional, we like to talk about our feelings, we want reassurance from a man, sometimes we want to text them, we want security, feel emotionally safe etc but need to hold these back and act cool and all especially at the beginning of dating bc that is what appeals to men...So if men like these kinda (acting cool, indifferent) women, we need to act like them. To me it seems it is always about them. It is always about men. If they contect, we can answer, it is always their level of interest that tells the tale, but why??? Why is it never the woman's level of interest? Why cant men be like ok, I want this woman really bad, Im going to listen to her talking about her emotions bc that is what she wants, this is how I can keep her interested...why is it the other way around that women are like ok, Im not contacting him or talk about my feelings or bring up issues about where this is going bc men dont like this. I very often feel that I am not myself when it comes to dating, that i have to play these roles and games...I mean I know this is how it works in real life unfortunately but why? Why is it women that have to get accustomed to mens way of thinking and act accordingly rather than the other way around? Sorry if it sounded rambling, just some ideas that came to my mind, I would really like to hear your opinion! Have a great day :)
I couldn't have come across your post at a better time! I absolutely love your writing and perspective on things I would have never thought of but that make absolute sense!! I've read it over and over and shared it with so many other women (and men!) who may find themselves in the same situation.
I've followed your advice to a T but here's a question for you which wasn't covered but I think a lot of us find ourselves in. What do we do when the disappearing guy returns, you ignore him for three days (yes! I did!!) and he then reappears on his own again a few days later saying “Let’s meet up when you’re up for it” what do I do from here? Do I text back and set up a meet up or wait for him to ask me out? Please help I’d love to hear what you have to say on this! Guys nowadays tend to wait for the girl to set things up but how do you get him to ask you out without seeming too indifferent or not interested?
@Anonymous May 27, 6:53 AM,
"it is always their level of interest that tells the tale, but why??? Why is it never the woman's level of interest?"
Because it takes two to make it work dear. Women have choice. They can choose whether or not they'd like to respond and there's power in that choice. But if one party isn't interested, it isn't going to go anywhere because it can't be one sided. And if you choose to take the lead as a woman due to a high level of interest on your part, then it's you that risks rejection. Personally, I think it's better to be dealing with a choice than it is to be dealing with rejection.
"Why cant men be like ok, I want this woman really bad, Im going to listen to her talking about her emotions bc that is what she wants, this is how I can keep her interested"
Many men will do that for a woman - that they're committed to and in love with. The problem comes in when women begin doing this immediately, say after the second date or after the first sexual experience with the man - prior to a commitment and prior to love.
"why is it the other way around that women are like ok, Im not contacting him or talk about my feelings or bring up issues about where this is going bc men dont like this"
Just as women don't like to sit on a date with a man talking about his ex or baby's mama the entire evening, men don't like sitting on a date with a women talking about her feelings all the time. The opposite sex generally knows what's attractive to the other and what isn't and therefore, saves those intense types of conversations for a much later date, for when and IF the relationship progresses. Additionally, we discuss a lot of emotionally immature men here. Not all men are emotionally immature, but many of the one's behaving as we're discussing here on this site are. And an emotionally immature man is in no way, shape or form equipped to handle the complex emotions of a woman.
"I very often feel that I am not myself when it comes to dating, that i have to play these roles and games...I mean I know this is how it works in real life unfortunately but why?"
Because not everyone deserves to know every single thing, every little emotion and feeling, every little disappointment one has suffered, every little fear and anxiety - on the first few dates. Before you trust someone with that type of information about yourself, you have to make them prove themselves first. Those types of conversations should only take place with people you trust and when you've only dated someone for a couple weeks or even just a few months - you have no idea if they can truly be trusted with what you're telling them or not. They can use it to manipulate you, they can blab it on social media, they can verbally bully you with it and throw it in your face....you cannot trust just anyone with your deepest darkest emotions.
"Why is it women that have to get accustomed to mens way of thinking and act accordingly rather than the other way around?"
Men do their part too dear. They make adjustments as well. Granted immature men and players, etc. won't. But real men, they do. If they didn't, sitting on a date with them would be like sitting in a frat house listening in on the conversation. It would be all sports, booze, sex stories about women, vulgar language, swearing, etc. LOL. But when with women, they save all that for the boys night out and instead, talk about things the woman is interested in. They ask about work, your family, what your outside interests are, etc. They talk "small talk" just like everyone else dear :-)
Hi Ms Mirror,
I read your response to Anonymous May 27, 6:53 AM. Could you elaborate a little further on why you think it's better to be dealing with a choice than it is to be dealing with rejection? Also, would it be accurate to say that women's choice is limited to the men that approach her, and men have an infinite choice in deciding whom to approach? Does it all somehow balance out in the end or do women still have more power than men?
@Anonymous May 28, 2:43 PM,
"Could you elaborate a little further on why you think it's better to be dealing with a choice than it is to be dealing with rejection?"
I realize that my ways and this site aren't for everyone, and these are only my opinions, so they can be taken with a grain of salt. But it's just common sense to me:
Choice = Power
Rejection = Powerless
"would it be accurate to say that women's choice is limited to the men that approach her, and men have an infinite choice in deciding whom to approach?"
Depends on who you ask. But you're asking me so my view on it is this. A woman's chances increase significantly if she focuses on the men who approach her because studies have shown that when it's the male that's originally attracted to the female, the odds of a lasting relationship increase somewhat significantly.
But having said that, that does not mean a woman can't give "green lights" for an approach. Women can use their subtle female ways to signal that their open to an approach. That's what "sirens" do - an old term referring to "a seductively beautiful or charming woman, especially one who beguiles men."
And signaling your interest doesn't require throwing yourself at a man, he doesn't need slapped upside the head LOL. He just needs a smile, eye contact that's held for at least 3 seconds or a nod in his direction. I realize it doesn't sound like much, but those are signals of female interest that have worked since the dawn of time. Men are hardwired to recognize them. Ever see a guy who captures a held glance from a woman for a few seconds turn around to his friends and declare, "Look, she wants me!" Yea - they "get" it.
And while men are free to approach anyone they like, significantly more than half the time, they strike out and experience rejection. It's a trade off. Freedom at the risk of rejection versus quiet restraint that wields power. I dated a guy once who spoke to me about this very thing. We got to talking about men having such freedom of approach and he informed me that it's not all it's cracked up to be - and that it's downright discouraging most of the time.
He said that for every one time a guy gets laid after an evening out at the bar...he's been to the bar anywhere from 12 - 15 - 18 times previously and struck out, sometimes many more times claiming that 20 would be average for a man over the age of 30. It depends on his age, the age of women he's approaching and the general area where this is all taking place. And I don't know about you, but striking out and experiencing rejection, sometimes mocking rejection and laughs (which is terrible ladies, so don't ever do that) - really sucks.
"Does it all somehow balance out in the end or do women still have more power than men?"
Again, probably depends on who you ask. But in my opinion - women have, and always will have, the ultimate power (even though many times, they don't properly wield it). Why? Because as a woman, you have something men want...you've got the va-gi-gi...and they want access to it LOL ;-)
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, lol! I guess we do have the ultimate power ... not a bad place to be! And here I was thinking men are so lucky, even if they have to deal with rejection sometimes or most of the time they still have the freedom to go up to anyone they like; they have so many options! But men's options are limited to only those women that don't reject him. No wonder they approach so many women!
And if we are 'sirens,' then to a certain extent we've got infinite choice too. O.k. I'm glad I'm a woman! Thanks Ms. Mirror!
Glad I'ma Woman (Anonymous May 28, 2:43 PM)
@ Ms. Mirror and the ladies,
Just touching base to share what I've been up to.
I faced a huge fear yesterday: I went to where Scorpio worked first thing in AM, not only to the store, but also to the dept where he said last year he was training to take over and was prepared to deal with him if the Universe had it that way -- it didn't.
Ms. Mirror, since I’ve known I was going to HAVE to do this, I have been practicing the phrase you recently shared with another when asked by an ex if we are seeing anyone. “Well, I date, if that’s what you are asking,” Thank you for those words; I didn't have to use them yesterday, but know I am going to eventually.
I was served by a very nice young lady and it took a half hour to order everything I needed. I tried to fill myself up with only positive feelings and enjoy the experience of making this purchase of materials that my brother and I will use to build a beautiful new deck on my house. I glanced around only a couple times when I heard footsteps, and the one time when the saleswoman and I were intently looking for an item on the store computer screen and I “felt” someone staring at me as they walked by, I did not turn to look. I’m choosing to think it was NOT Scorpio – because it simply doesn’t matter.
My son and girlfriend gave me the book, “The Untethered Soul” for mom’s day. I read it last week, it was good. A couple things reminded me of Ms. Mirror's messages.
1. "Once you decide you want to be unconditionally happy, something inevitably will happen that challenges you. This test of your commitment is exactly what stimulates spiritual growth."
We can keep all those words in as they are, or switch out "unconditionally happy" and "spiritual growth" with whatever it is we are working on.
2. "It is scarcity that makes things precious. It is scarcity that makes a simple rock become a rare gem."
No need to say anything further with that one, do we? lol
My brother was down early May. When I told him about what I had experienced recently regarding our dad, he was very receptive and shared a few things of his own. He took me by surprise. In the past he would only touch the surface faintly when I’d share spiritual things with him; this time he shared more. He gave me a list of three people to read: Ram Dass, Edgar Cayce and Paul Brunton.
Have you read any of these Ms. Mirror?
I’ve started reading Be here Now by/with/of (I haven't figured it out yet) Ram Dass, and between it and The Untethered Soul, I found the peace within to go and face Scorpio if things happened that way – to take what happens as it happens and to just live as best I can.
I did not walk the aisles or scan the store. I went in with a purpose, directly where I needed to go, did my stuff, and left. I know it’s only a start; one step at a time :)
This store was always my positive-fill scavenger-hunt get-lost-in-possibilities place, as well as my Plan B in the event I needed to find another job (no worries on that, but I’ve always had a Plan B for work). I’ve so very much missed it, and it was so nice to go back.
Keep on the path ladies... ((hugs))
@Gemini50,
I'm familiar with Ram Dass and Edgar Cayce. I've never read any books authored by Ram Dass, been exposed to lots of his teachings but not the book nor anything on Paul Brunton, but I have read "Edgar Cayce Modern Prophet" many years ago and it cracked open my mind. He was known as "the sleeping prophet" and a healer and the entire concept was fascinating to me.
I think you're on the right track there dear. Books of that nature will empower you and stir lots of positive hope. Another you might want to eventually tackle is an oldie but goodie, The Celestine Prophecy:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Celestine-Prophecy-An-Adventure/dp/0446671002/
There's an entire series of those books, but that's the first one and still one of my favs. One of the things I like about that book in particular is the different angle it takes to spread it's message. It's a fictional story about a group of folks traveling their paths that all end up in the same place - and discover something magical on a quest that leads them to Machu Picchu. It's a short book you could probably gobble up in a weekend :-)
I'm glad you took that first step this weekend, that was a biggie. And I'm thrilled that you're building a new deck. Might sound crazy, but change like that, that brings a new space to enjoy and provokes creative inspiration - it really has value. You'll find that deck is going to actually bring you a lot of joy spending time there with yourself, friends and family :-)
@Gemini50 and all:
Thanks for the reminder about the law of scarcity - always a good one to remember and internalize when navigating the tricky waters of dating, online or otherwise. ;-)
Also, thanks for the recommendations on reading materials. I have never read "Be Here Now" but have heard of Ram Dass and have read some of his modern proteges, like Eckhart Tolle. I also really like Mike Dooley, have a couple of his books (one I bought after seeing him speak in person) and subscribe to his free daily email from "The Universe" which I find very uplifting. You can subscribe by going to tut.com.
Hey Mirror, Im Anonymous May 27, 6:53 AM, and I really appreciate your insights and aswers to the issues I raised. It sheds light on things I havent thought of before. I just felt that men in general have more freedom, power, opportunities and choice when it comes to dating and it's not fair but I guess both genders have to fight their battles but they have different roles in it. It is really good advice though not to do anything in general but always let men come to you whether at he beginning or later stages of a relationship...But sometimes it just makes me feel so helpless. But it is true that choice is power. I just saw "Eat play love" the other day for the first time and it was so elevating but funny also and made me feel so good about life. I think the order of words in the title matters a lot. I think we women tend to become obsessed with men and love sometimes too much whereas theres so many great things in life to do! First of all we need to take care about our physical and mental&spiritual well being. Eat well, find our inner peace and then love will come and find us, we don't need to do anything extra. Take care and thanks again!!
Thanks Ms. Mirror. I'm going to keep reading and living and learning. Making some good decisions in ALL parts of my life.
I heard such a line of bs last night from a man probably in late 50's about his "open" marriage, and I let him know I wasn't buying it.
I went to see Chris Stapleton with gf a couple hours away at a casino. At some point gf got the attn. of this man who was an employee of the casino and who sets up the shows.
After the show, he approached me and apologized if he offended gf. I had no idea what he was talking about and told him so. He then said when SHE asked if he was married, he explained he was in an "open" marriage. I told him gf didn't say anything to me about it -- and then he starts hitting on me.
I explained that he may be in an "open" marriage, but he's married and I'm not interested. He didn't give up. I told him about oxytocin and women. He said, "Yeah, I read that article too, it's not true."
I laughed, saying, "It's science and it's true," and inferring this of me with him, I added, "It's why women, who are not interested or the least bit attracted to a man, all of a sudden become attracted after sleeping with him." He was taken a bit aback by that one. lol But then was making his case of his women friends that he "loves" and has sex with, and how his wife went away to CA with a doctor and had a relationship with the dr. for the week.
I had to refrain from rolling my eyes (because the whole thing was a complete bore to me), and asked, "Why not just stay single together then? Why get married? For health and life insurance?"
Nope. It was due to a "crazy" x-wife and his new wife's idea to prevent the ex from claiming he was putting daughter in a situation where her father and girlfriend were not married.
I thought, "Ahh.... here comes the drama of the situation, the excuses and the pointing of fingers towards others."
My response was simply, "Hmm..." and he knew I was not buying it. We were getting scooched out of the arena and that was a good opportunity for me to go. When he asked how he could contact me, I told him he couldn't.
The kicker of this exchange for me was also this: Prior to the show, I ran into Chris while going to the ladies room. It was just the two of us in a small walkway. I found Chris last year scanning radio stations, and I've been hooked and wanting to see him ever since. I follow his posts on FB and he seems to be a good family man (with amazing writing and musical talents).
Although I felt like a blubbering teen-ager, I had to take the opportunity to thank Chris for his music and encourage him to keep doing what he's doing. He was respectful, humble and gracious in his response as he thanked me and extended his hand for a handshake.
The behaviors of Chris and this guy towards me were polar opposites. Chris was respectful and he is clearly a man. Employee-guy was a scumbag looking for a woman to use for sex. And all I could do with the employee-jerk was walk away shaking my head thinking WTF?
@Anonymous May 30, 9:30 AM,
If you enjoyed the movie Eat, Pray, Love then you might also enjoy another that I repeatedly recommend for it's overall message. It's "Under the Tuscan Sun:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moqovwrR_gE
Diane Lane, the movie's main character, doesn't exactly embrace the change that life has thrust upon her, but when she finally accepts it...through a convoluted series of events and by simply having faith and following her true path...the universe rewards her in the end and grants her her wishes in life...in a most unexpected way :-)
@Gemini50,
LOL, you had an exchange with what I like to refer to as a "bottom feeder." Like the catfish that live in the river, constantly trolling the deep, dark depths for a bit of free scrap to nibble on. That guy placed himself inside of a casino for a reason - it's his feeding ground. It's got alcohol, a carefree vibe where risk taking is encouraged, and lots of folks entering the door, looking for a good time.
This guy acts like sex for a woman is something scarce. He takes the position that he's got something to offer that's in high demand - sex - as if it's something that women need to clamor for to experience. Meanwhile, when you really think about it, sex for a woman is in high supply. There's nothing scarce about it for a woman. A woman can walk into a bar any night of the week, announce that she's lonely and in need of company, and walk out like the Pied Piper with a line of men behind her. Sex in and of itself is hardly scarce for women. Good men and healthy relationships are scarce. But sex...nah, not for a woman if she really sets her mind to it and drops her inhibitions. A woman can make sex happen for herself pretty easily.
This guy's a hoot. "Yeah, I read that article too, it's not true." Like there's only one article on the subject - and he read it, and deemed it untrue...because he knows what it's like to feel like a woman, LOL. Too funny.
I ain't buying his story about the open marriage either. Think about it, not to be mean or anything but seriously, think about it. Cheating employee casino husband versus doctor who flies off to sunny California to spend time alone with you. Hmm, choices, choices, LOL. And he'll have you believe that the wife chooses to stay with the cheating husband who trolls the casino for cheap sex and remain in a loveless marriage...all just to spite or prove the ex-wife incorrect? Umm, yea - no. And if that truly is the case, both of them have some serious issues they're avoiding dealing with and using sex to distract them from.
"When he asked how he could contact me, I told him he couldn't."
I bet that felt good LOL. I don't know you personally, but I have kinda' gotten a feel for your personality over the past year or so and I think it's safe to say...a year or two ago, you'd have handled that completely different and may have remained very polite and civil, laughing it off, instead of handing this man the cold slap he deserved for disrespecting you and GF and your intellect as women.
He, himself, even knows what a jag he is and how disrespectful that was. If he didn't he wouldn't have "approached me and apologized if he offended gf." He KNOWS what he's like. He KNOWS what he's doing is disrespectful. And he KNOWS it's wrong. Otherwise, he'd never have felt the need to issue an apology.
He got what he deserved and you handled the situation like a pro :-)
Hi Mirror and ladies,
@Gemini50
In the course of years I have read Paul Brunton´s series of 16 volumes on different spiritual topics ranging from relaxation, excercise, etc. to meditation, contemplation, enlightenment, which were published after his death and represent the best of his wisdom. He wrote in paragraphs so you can read just a few and put the book down. His writings have a very calming effect on me but you should pick out just one or two books first because reading all the 16 volumes would be quite discouraging in my opinion. (-:
@Chk61
I am happy to hear you are feeling okay and full of optimism. Yes, every worry ends one day...
My update: The cyclist hasn´t contacted me since the beginning of May. Now, after 4 weeks, he sends me a message inviting me to go cycling. Sounds innocent, doesn´t it? I always fell for his invitations. Last time we were together he left me sitting over a cup of coffee for almost half an hour, you remember, I wrote about it. And I still haven´t swallowed it. During these 4 weeks I´ve had to process the negative feelings and now when I am feeling better, he contacts me again. This time I am firmly determined to end it with him for good. Mirror, you gave me good advice to send him a text saying I am dating somebody but I am so fed up with this man, so exhausted of the rollercaster that I can´t even make myself send him a text, any text. I have been thinking about his behaviour and I don´t want him in my life anymore. I am not going to give him any other chance, he has got a lot of chances. I am sure he will understand my silence.
At work one colleague - 10 years younger than me but a nice guy - has been flirting with me for some time. I sense he would like to meet me outside work but I am not giving him any green signals.
The result of my 4-week thought process is the following: Although I don´t like players, insecure men, etc. it´s much easier for me to s t a r t dating them and s t a r t having a "relationship" with them. Whenever a nice man appears in my vicinity, I reverse. I get frightened or I don´t know how to characterise my feelings, I just immediately find an excuse to not have anything in common with him. Why is this so? E.g. with this nice man at work I immediately told myself that he is too young and not my type. However, he is nice and not so repulsive after all. But I already know I won´t give him a chance. If he was a player and I didn´t know it, I am afraid I would give him a chance.
By the way, Mirror and ladies, how to treat a man in such a situation? I am nice to him, laugh at his jokes but always refuse his invitation for a coffee. And yes, he isn´t giving up. The more I refuse him, the more he tries. Exactly as you write...
I wish you a nice weekend,
HopefulWithMan
@HopefulWithMen,
"Although I don´t like players, insecure men, etc. it´s much easier for me to s t a r t dating them and s t a r t having a "relationship" with them. Whenever a nice man appears in my vicinity, I reverse. I get frightened or I don´t know how to characterise my feelings, I just immediately find an excuse to not have anything in common with him. Why is this so?"
Well, this may not ring any bells with you at first, but when this happens, this type of self-sabotage so-to-speak, it's generally a reflection of feeling "unworthy" on some level. And that unworthiness generates fear and the fear translates into the behaviors that follow.
"If he was a player and I didn´t know it, I am afraid I would give him a chance."
That may be because the players egg women on by providing constant reassurance of a "sure thing" with them, whether they really mean that or not. And then once you get that reassurance, you feel worthy of guaranteed success, so you move freely towards the end goal. But with a man who isn't a player, that's keeping his cards close to his chest and not providing the constant cajoling and egging on and reassurance that players provide to move women along onto their side...you don't have the confidence to move forward with them.
"By the way, Mirror and ladies, how to treat a man in such a situation?"
If he's friendly and respectful about it and it's all rather light-hearted and not crossing any boundaries...enjoy the attention dear. Let him make you feel good about yourself and desirable as a woman :-)
Hi Mirror,
thank you for your quick response. And as usual you hit the nail on the head. Yes, I do feel insecure, maybe not so much unworthy but definitely insecure. And unfortunately, the older I am the more insecure I become although I try to fight it. And I think I know the reason. I have never been married and don´t have children either. The place where I live is very traditional, most people still value you as a woman only by these two standards. People meet at family gatherings, help relatives find jobs, every aspect of life is somehow "sheltered" by family. Also, although I try to fit in, I dress normally, more or less follow fashion, etc. I don´t like household, cooking and all that typically women´s staff. I love reading, educating myself, going out, fresh air, cycling, studying... Also, money and material things don´t interest me very much, which is even suspicious to some people here.So I have come to a conclusion that maybe with nice guys I feel this societal pressure to be a "typical, traditional" woman which I am not. And sadly, this insecurity of mine has become even stronger since I am dating on the internet because some guys have expressed disapproval of the type of woman I am.:-( I have been implied they don´t understand a woman like me and don´t respect such a woman. So I am doing my best to maintain my self-esteem but the fact remains that with many nice guys I don´t feel good. The scenario usually goes like this: A nice guy likes me, is attracted to me and when he gets to know me better he doesn´t like me so much any more because I am too... I don´t know exactly what... for him. And with players I can feel myself, I can quarrel with them, show my emotions more freely, in a word, I can by more myself than with nice guys. That´s why I think I have developed almost a fear of good guys and consciously or unconsciously avoid closer contacts with them.
Do you have any ideas or suggestions? If not, never mind, I am happy that I can share my thought about my situation. It helps a lot, really. I am very grateful for this site, your advice and all the ladies experiences. (-:
@Hopeful,
Thanks for the book info.
I understand the player/nice guy dilemma, and what sticks out for me from that comment is, "...I don´t know how to characterise my feelings..."
Some significant pieces of actionable advice Ms. Mirror has given us is to observe, not act quickly and trust our gut. However a guy is acting, you measure HIM. Whatever a guy is doing, you measure HIM. Whatever a guy is saying, you measure HIM. Then you take care of yourself accordingly.
If he isn't offensive, if he isn't a jag, if he is respectful, normal and shows interest, then you choose to either participate or not, one step at a time. And along the way, you continue to measure HIM, and continue to check in with yourself to measure your feelings.
Think of it this way, a roast is a roast is a roast. But we put a thermometer in it when it's cooking, right? That thermometer is measuring the doneness, or quality of the roast, as it becomes the way we like it.
A guy is a guy is a guy. Our gut is the thermometer. Is he respectful? Is he consistent? How does he treat me? And I think one of the most important: How do I feel with him?
So observe with the young guy Hopeful, measure and then move along as you feel. :-)
@Chk61, good to hear from you. I went into the website last night and signed up. It looks interesting. thx.
@Ms. Mirror, yeah, that employee-jerk was something else. I'm heading off to watch gf's grandsons play bb this morning, and will ask her about her conversation with him. The thing that was really getting to me while he was trying to talk me into this via "educated reason," etc., was the interaction I had with Chris earlier.
This jerk portrayed himself as a member of the "in" folks in NYC, working with whoever he told me, doing whatever he does in the music industry, and I really didn't give a shit.
When I met Chris he was humble and respectful, and called me Ma'am.... my goodness, he was so very sweet and a gentleman. So, when this jerk started his shit with me, all I saw was darkness compared to Chris' light. I guess the cool thing was that I stood as his equal and said No (not even a thank you with that. lol) And you are right lady, a year or two ago, I would have said No worrying about his feelings. Not that time. I said No as a choice for ME.
Have a great weekend everyone! Summer is here, take care of your self first. (hugs)
@HopefulWithMen,
"So I have come to a conclusion that maybe with nice guys I feel this societal pressure to be a "typical, traditional" woman which I am not."
Well, what that really signals to me is that with nice guys - you're not comfortable being your true self. You may be holding back, presenting a picture perfect image that truly doesn't represent who you are. So on some level, you're "disconnected" with nice guys - and they may sense that they aren't able to "connect" with you as a result.
I think maybe you might be worried about judgment from them, so you try to become something that will receive their approval, but unfortunately, that "something" isn't your true self and it's causing a disconnect on some level.
"And sadly, this insecurity of mine has become even stronger since I am dating on the internet because some guys have expressed disapproval of the type of woman I am.:-( I have been implied they don´t understand a woman like me and don´t respect such a woman."
Well you have to consider the source of that type of feedback dear. I mean, these men online nowadays, many have alterior motives, so yea, they're going to try to make you feel bad about yourself. That's "the game." Players through "negs" out there (negative comments about you) on purpose. They feel that if they knock a woman down a notch or two, they bring her down to their level, making her fell vulnerable and bringing her insecurities to the surface - and giving them higher odds of "acquiring" her on sexual level as a result. Because they know women tend to "do, do, do" more under those circumstances. They know a woman will generally try harder and to them, that "harder" means sex. Behaving like that towards women is their "in" with them.
And I think what may be happening is that the player types that are doing the above to you, are having an affect on you with the good guys. It's almost like a reverse of some sort. Meaning, the men online are having you believe one thing (that isn't true), and then you're kind of applying their mentality to the good guys as well. So when you're around a good guy, you're expecting a neg, you're expecting judgment on some level - and you're trying to preempt it by putting on a false facade and not being your true self, so that you don't experience any backlash. But in the end, you experience backlash anyway, just on a different level - one of "disconnect" in a sense.
Now granted, these are just my opinions. But if any of that makes your gut rumble and you can relate to it, then chances are that's a bit of what's happening.
What I'm gathering is that you feel connected to players, because they're providing approval and reassurance on some level (permitting you to be your true self), and in your mind, that's somehow balancing out the damage they're doing by dropping "negs" to get you to react in the manner they'd prefer (accepting them). So even if they drop the negs, all the reassurance and cajoling and egging on they do by in addition to that is somehow balancing things out for you. It's like, "Yea, he said this neg about me - BUT - he also tells me he really likes me, wants to be with me, etc. so he must really like me and the neg is just him being honest with me because he does really like me."
Cont...
But what they're really doing....is running "game" on you by setting you up in a situation of confusion and doubt, that makes you try harder. Basically dear, behaving like that is an "emotional hook" for women. When you send a woman on an emotional roller coaster ride, you get her "addicted" and attached emotionally because women have a tendency to believe that if you go through something with a man and he hangs in there, it must be real. It feels like overcoming problems with them and it's a known fact that when couples experience problems - they become closer. When in reality, the only problem is that they're running game, it has nothing to do with you.
Dr. Wendy Walsh calls it a system of "short term rewards." And that system is like a road map for players. It's the "hook" that gets women emotionally attached and keeps them coming back for more and thinking that all of the problems and disappearances in the relationship they're overcoming is actually bonding them in some way as a genuine couple...when it's just game. It's a crumb being dropped, plugged full of reassurance that makes you feel "high" and then they pull the rug out from under you, causing you to hit the ground with a thud. You're hooked because you hang onto that one/two great experiences with them...and you wait for them to return and provide more of that. And then they rinse and repeat, keeping you in that emotional loop. And the entire time, they compliment, then drop a neg, then compliment, then drop a neg - but you hang onto the compliments and you figure the negs are simply honesty from him. They're not, their a mind screw is what they are.
So then when you meet a nice guy - you expect the mind screw. You mentally prepare for it and you then make adjustments to your personality and your behavior in the hopes to avoid that part of the relationship process - a part that you expect to happen. And in doing so, you're disconnecting from your true self and that disconnect is keeping you from connecting with the good guy.
Basically, you may be taking your experiences and expectations that players are leaving you with, and applying them to good guys and then taking preemptive actions to try to avoid that. But it's causing you not to connect with the good guy. He may be wondering why you're holding back, he may sense it.
"the fact remains that with many nice guys I don´t feel good."
That may be because you won't let yourself dear, because I think you may be expecting the good guys to treat you as the players do - and take you on that emotional roller coaster ride that now feels natural to you but in reality, isn't the way it should be. Good guys won't take you on the crazy train ride or mess with your head like that. Players need to do that to win - good guys don't need that type of manipulation to win, they win on their social skills and through making a woman happy by fulfilling her needs.
Cont...
"with players I can feel myself, I can quarrel with them, show my emotions more freely, in a word, I can by more myself than with nice guys."
See what I mean about all of that mind screwing and emotional turmoil cloaking itself as the feeling of bonding with the man? It feels like "overcoming" things and "working" towards something big and it causes you to feel more attached to them. Trouble is, they're doing that on purpose because they KNOW that's generally the way a woman reacts to that. They KNOW a woman will become emotionally "attached" if they're in her head kicking and stirring up her emotions all the time. It's "the game" - the emotional roller coaster ride. And oddly enough, that emotional roller coaster ride gets a woman hooked. And then when the guy disappears, the woman is like, "What happened? We were working so hard on things. Yea, we had our problems, but he hung in there and we were working and building something. He wouldn't have stuck around after all of that if he didn't care."
Ever notice the more problems you have with a a man - the more you feel attached to them? Ever notice the more fights, the more quarrels, the more work you have to do....the more they "stick" with you, in your mind, and you're constantly thinking about them and can't even date anyone else even if you wanted to?
Yea, that's the game. It's an emotional mind screw. And players KNOW how women react to that, and they use it to their advantage to create the guise that something is really building here. It's not. It's all staged strategically to walk you through those steps and get you to that emotional point, so that you become vulnerable and they can then move in and snap a finger, and make you jump to please them because they've now got you so desperate for their approval, you'll do anything just to feel good about them, yourself and the relationship again.
I've rambled a bit here, but explaining this psychological concept isn't easy. Because for a woman, the emotions are so complex that it's hard to break them down into something that can truly be understood. But the game almost acts as reverse psychology - don't treat the woman well to get her, make her feel like shit and then she'll jump when you snap your finger and she'll scramble for any bit of approval you give and when you give it, she'll hang on that little crumb and be desperate for more because she'll consider that little crumb you just dished out as validation that there's something "real" there.
You see, the game also applies the Law of Scarcity. But in the game, what becomes scarce is their approval. At first, they pour buckets of it onto you and it's laced with compliments. They stuff you with that and make you feel great. Then comes the the "hook" - when they suddenly and without warning, yank their approval away. In come the negs, out come your fears and insecurities. To counteract that, you try harder. To keep you going, they keep their approval and reassurance scarce...keeping you constantly do, do, doing to get more of it. And then they're sitting pretty. They've got women on the line, "hooked," and clamoring for a crumb of approval or attention. And when they drop that crumb, it's like you've been on a hunger strike and you gobble that crumb up and it's the best tasting crumb you've ever eaten in your life - and you begin to cherish those crumbs. You stay and you wait, wait, wait for the next one, hanging on for dear life for the next one. Can't eat, can't sleep - just need that crumb to make you feel better.
Cont...
I've probably done a crappy job of explaining this here but I took the time to really dig into this because...lots of women will relate dear. You're not alone in this, this is a very common occurence and it's also one that's incredibly difficult for women to dig out from under and gain a better understanding of the behaviors involved. And it's hard to dig out from because...they've got you so worked up, so emotional, so hooked, that seperating your feelings to see the reality of what's taking place becomes very difficult. Someone says, "he's a player" and your mind is instantly like, "Really? I don't think so. He complimented me all the time, we had two great dates and he text me once a week. We're having problems now, but we're really very close. Once this is settled, he'll be that great guy I originally dated." You feel very close to this man because he's in your head with a pick axe, digging around and stirring emotions. And you don't realize he WASN'T that great guy you first dated....that was a FRAUD and the con is under way, the great guy was a lie and he isn't coming back because he never existed in the first place.
Okay, I'll shut up now LOL...but I hope at least some of what I said helps you and others here to form a greater understanding of yourself, and the BS that others are projecting onto you.
Hopeful, be your true self with the good guys so you can "connect" with them...if they're truly good guys - they WILL NOT judge you for it. As a matter of fact, it will be all the little quirks about your personality - that they truly remember and come to appreciate over time - even missing them when you're not around :-)
Mirror,
thank you for your in-depth reply. You explanation is perfectly comprehensible and eye-opening. Although I´ve been reading your advice for quite time, the subtleties in this reply have really helped me to fill the gaps in my understanding. It feels like a sort of enlightenment! I am going to copy and keep it and return to it whenever I feel insecure or doubtful of myself.
The most enlightening bit for me was understanding that those guys I considered to be "nice" were in fact not so nice, at least not to me. Otherwise I would never have had those restrictive feelings around them. Now I am talking about some guys from my past who I believe really meant it when they said they wanted to get married and so on but actually used some techniques you describe as typical players´ tools. Yes, I get it now.
On the whole I believe I have made huge progress in understanding since I started reading this blog. Now I have also realised that even my emotions are okay and that I am not at all as oversensitive as I thought I was when I was with those men. It´s a huge relief to realise that actually I don´t have to "work" so much on myself as I thought before, but instead, I can allow myself to be my genuine self and not let anybody manipulate me. Because I have had this problem with manipulative women too, unfortunately. It´s very difficult to express thoughts on this topic, isn´t it? Yes, the most important revelation is that with really nice guys I will feel free to be real me so I don´t have to worry about them judging me. So actually, I have not yet met a really nice guy genuinely interested in me. Sad, but at least I know where I stand.
Oh, this was really eye-opening. I am going to think it over to absorb it. Mirror, thank you again for all your advice and support, but this last one has helped me get the missing pieces, so to speak. And not only in relation to men, but women as well.
Have a nice day,
Hopeful
Ms. Mirror, that wasn't crappy at all, that was super helpful. You just explained players better than I've ever heard anyone explain it, and some of the points you made I hadn't even thought of before. I think I only understood bits and pieces of how players operate but couldn't tie them all together to see the whole picture. Now I can see how each part relates to the other, and it's all making sense to me now, how and why players do the things they do. So thanks for taking the time to explain that in detail to all of us. I get it now!
@Hopeful, I've had the same kinds of feelings/experiences you describe so you aren't alone. I know what you mean about men contacting you again just when you've forgotten all about them and started feeling good about yourself again. Most of the time, I was a perfectly happy person, just enjoying living my life before I met these lame men, and then after meeting them, slowly my life would begin to get stressful and drama-filled as these men start their "game" on me. Basically, what they'd do is they'd try to make me feel bad about myself AFTER they hooked me. So now that I've gotten a little wiser about all of this, I've decided to remove from my life the men that make me feel bad about myself the moment they start up because I don't need that s**t in my life. Life is hard enough without having some lame guy screwing up your life and sense of equilibrium.
This is just my opinion, but it sounds like your cyclist guy isn't even worth an "I'm seeing someone now," especially if sending that text could potentially set you back. I've gone through a similar dilemma, it would've been fun to hurt the guy that hurt me a little, but what I've learned is that if you really don't give two s**ts about someone, you don't even care to get back at them anymore because you're just too busy living your life and spending your energy on better, more worthwhile things. I can't tell you how good I feel now after being tossed around by a player. I just flat-out stopped responding to him. And now he knows he messed-up (he has fewer "options" now which is not good for HIS goals), I took back control, and I am not ever going to give him a second chance because I realized he's not good for me, and he's NOT the guy he tried to portray himself as. That guy wasn't real. It was all an act to get me attached. So by cutting him out, I am not actually missing anything of value. Sure, at first it feels crappy because you're still emotionally attached, and he's like a 'habit,' but it gets easier and easier. I literally had to drag myself through the process no matter how uncomfortable I was feeling, and then one day, things were a-o.k.! I was back to my old self, before the man!
I think I'm at a point now where I could probably spot a player from a mile away and run the hell away from him before he has a chance to do damage. Now I'd like to start focusing more on being able to spot the man that IS good for me and not have any adverse reactions to him treating me well.
Dear Mirror,
This is my story.I met this Taurus guy the end of March and we hit it off really well. Although we both said we didn’t want a relationship he shared a lot with me he would send me pictures of his kids, and even invited me to his sister’s wedding in another state. I accepted. he was just giving me every sign that he wanted a relationship and I was starting to get confused cuz I really liked him. Before things went further I asked him if he wanted a relationship because he was giving me every sign he did. To what he replied “Hell no! I just don’t want to sleep with five different women, I’m not going to be rude and be like hmmm do you wanna have sex? I’d never get laid. So what I do is I stick around and pretend that I care once they start getting attached I run. BUT you, you are DIFFERENT, don’t think I’m trying to pull that on you I like you and you don’t annoy me at all”. I told him that him sharing so much and being so open lead me AND the other women to think he was after that. And that’s the reason they tried to push their way into a relationship. I explained that he was playing with women’s feelings by leading them on and that they didn’t just got attached he made them attached so he could feel wanted and feed his ego. Then I told him that I had a friend with benefits that he never made me think we could have something more than a sexual relationship, yet we were still “friends” to proof my point. I went off telling him that I didn’t believe the I was different game. That he was a joke and a fraud. Next day and because I realized I was probably a little too rough on him I texted him and we met to talk. He explained that it was unfair to judge him based on that, and that he wanted to get to know the real me not only get into my panties an said he was interested. I explained that I couldn’t trust him. But we had such great chemistry that I was willing to give him a second chance. However, I was taking over and that at this point he I had two. Option 1: We become sex buddies so he wouldn’t have to pretend he cared. 2: I could show him the real me, as a friend and a friend only. Knowing he’d never get me. He said great, just know that I genuinely want to get to know you and earn your trust back. So next day I asked him, so what did you decide He said ok you win option 1. So I got confirmation all he wants is sex. Then I said fine I’ll contact you. And he was like what? I said don’t text me don’t call me don’t contact me, this is not a relationship, we use each other for sex and that’s it. He was like wait what? No that’s not what I want you all of you, I want to talk to you see you, be around you. I can’t believe I fell for it! In my mind was like yes player game over. He immediately tried to take it back, didn’t work. He then said you know what just give me one last chance, let me take you out. He said I want to show you a good time, I want to show you I’m not a douchebag. I accepted and I don’t know why. I told him we weren’t having sex. Anyways we went out on what was a second date things went good and I had left my car at his place. at the end of the date and after a lot of analyzing and refusing to be played I decided to bed with him. Why? Cuz in my mind if I let him dine me and wine me and sweep me off my feet (just like he did with the other women) then I would be playing his game and I wasn’t playing by his rules. So I took control and I slept with him he hesitated thinking I would disappear on him and asked me not to(kinda sweet) anyway It was great and we kept seeing each other,before I knew it I started hanging at his place and I would come over whenever. At this point everything was fine because I unlike many women I can separate my feelings from the physical attraction, he could sense I had my walls up but we enjoyed our time together.
Continue... After I made a comment to a friend of what was going on with this guy. She mentioned that we both wanted the “Boyfriend/girlfriend experience” I told him what my friend had said and we both admitted that could be truth. he asked me what I wanted to do or what is it that I wanted from him. I explained that I wanted first 1. Sex 2. HONESTY because I had to know where I was standing. And 3. to appreciate the time I made for him. he wanted to continue to have whatever is it that we had and just let it roll till we both realized we really liked each other because we were both very Independent. We sealed the deal .Since then we only had a little bump when we made plans for me to come over and he cancelled on me saying he was going to the gym to play basketball with some friends and to go the next day instead, and I said I couldn’t cuz I had already moved my plans because of ours and that I wasn’t going to reschedule again. So we didn’t text each other in a week, I didn’t text cuz I was upset. He then texts a week later like nothing happened and I give him a piece of my mind about how he cancels on me and then disappears and reappears a week later like nothing happened and trying to make me go to his place and that wasn’t gonna happen. He explains that he was very sick and that he just wanted to say hi.. Anyways next day I text to see how he’s doing and he’s happy to hear from me and I AGAIN am available to go see him. He said how cute it was me getting mad at him for canceling on me because it shows I care. But I denied it and said all I wanted was to get laid and not to flatter himself. So after that things are great, but as I predicted I am getting attached. He is a gentleman and truly touches my heart. He has taken me on dates even tho we are not dating and expressed that he is still interested. We recently went on a trip and I told him that I needed to step back a little bit because I was starting to develop feelings for him and that this was cuz we spend a lot of time together. I said I didn’t want to because he had previously said that I shouldn’t fall for him. YES that threw me off, he said that and he meant it. When I asked him why he said that and he said “because I don’t want to hurt you, and I never had this kind of freedom before” I went through that stage when I divorced and I truly understand that he needs his space but now that I’m starting to have feelings for him it bothers me the idea that he might be seeing someone else, which I know he is. Anyways he didn’t like the idea of me pushing him away and he made it very clear when we came back from out trip. Then again for the second time I told him that it was real that I was starting to have feelings for him, that I missed him when he wasn’t around that I thought about him a lot. He smiled big and said that he felt the same way. So after all that and realizing that this no longer my game I’m now lost. Reading your article made me realized that I’ve been playing hunter all this time and ended up being a prey LOL! I am very open and never shy to let him know that I want him, I am very sensual and always send him sexy messages, as a typical Aquarius female this is very normal for me, I give a lot of myself and I’m never inhibit, I’m used to get what I want when i want it, I’m not a patient enough to sit around and wait for a guy to make the first move IF I know he’s interested. Would telling him that I'm going to start dating other people will make him chase me? Thank you so much in advance
Hey, got an update on my DM!
To recap:
Only 3 dates over a month and half (due to his work...), on 3rd date I have a a bad feeling, he is trying a bit too hard to get back to my place (luckily it didn't work).
After that date, my gut-feeling is confirmed: though he had mentioned trying to meet over the weekend or at least before he leave for a work trip then his holidays the following week, I had no news from him until Monday (as MOA said "not even a courtesy text" during the weekend). When he does text that Monday, he blames work, bla, bla, bla.
I waited a day to reply to him but then when we exchanged texts it was friendly.
After that, total silence for over a week... He suddenly reappears, explaining he was silent due to a family tragedy (someone passed away unexpectedly). But he mentions the tragedy occured 3 days prior... Then why not message during the silent 5 days prior to the tragedy where everything was fine and he was on holiday...?
I waited a few hours and sent a simple polite sympathy text.
He doesn't respond. But I notice he is very reguarly online chatting to people on a messenger app so it's not like he was immersed in his grief and not communicating with other people.
5 days later, he reappears as he returns to the country. With a text stating he was back, exhausted, bla, bla, bla. Hoping I was ok and was doing well bla, bla, bla.
No questions just statements.
No questions to reply to so left his message like that and did not reply.
Follow MOA's advices girls, this lady KNOWS what she is talking about!!!
So 2 days after he sent that text and I did not respond, I receive a real panicky text from him wondering what is happening, asking me to give him a sign!
See ladies, MOA is right!
Now I waited another day and sent a basic short reply stating "all was good here just been very hectic".
He hasn't responded. It looks like now he is pissed off.
Now my question is: do you think my behaviour was right? A male friend thinks I am too harsh with my punishment.
But on my end I feel so shocked to realise that in his little head, he was expecting me to wait patiently and give him a warm welcome on his return once he sorts out his work then family issues.
He sent 1 text in a matter of 2 weeks (yet he is chatting to others on message app).
I only replied politely that 1 text to give him my sympathy but I did not initiate any contact for 2 weeks.
I am realising that he probably did not even notice I had gone quiet for 2 weeks until I actually ignored his message on his return!
And now he is pissed off and ignoring me because I replied to his panicky text in a coldish manner?!
Men can treat women coldly but if we do the same we are awful?!
I am baffled!
MOA, is my male friend right? Was I too harsh? I don't feel I was but knowing how I am, I could be so wrong!
Damnblokes
@Anonymous Jun 1, 3:11 AM,
"MOA, is my male friend right? Was I too harsh?"
Well, when someone is behaving in a cool manner with you, it's fair game to return that. You get what you give. But you have to understand that if he's an egotistical man, he won't respond well to that because it doesn't feed his ego. But on the same token, if that's the case, then you need to ask yourself, "Is this the kind of man that can make me happy? Will his few crumbs of attention when they are convenient to him really make me happy long term?"
Because when a man starts behaving like that, it tells you something about his character as a man and about his level of interest. He may be interested, but he may also be self-absorbed which will outweigh that and when it does, you need to ask yourself if a man like that can even make you happy and whether or not he's worth it.
"all was good here just been very hectic"
Next time, if you want to draw him in, you can tag a question onto the end of that statement. Something like, "All was good here just been very hectic. How have you been?" And then leave it at that and see if he responds. But I will warn you, men like this sometimes get your attention again like that, and then disappear and don't respond all over again. It's like once they're reassured you're there waiting and willing, off they go to be self-absorbed in their own life again, LOL.
I wouldn't reach out to him at this point and I wouldn't worry about what he thinks about me. He's not behaving like a man that's genuinely interested, he's behaving like a man who could care less until it's convenient to him. And that's most likely an indication of his personality in some manner (self-absorbed). I would force him to either man up by stepping up, or be okay letting him drift away. Because I don't think a man like this can make a woman who is seeking a relationship happy. He's not behaving like a man that wants a relationship here, so you don't have to behave as if you're in one with him (jumping to answer his texts when he finally circles around). Let this simmer for a while and see what he does, if anything, in the next few weeks. In the meantime, open yourself up to dating other men and just doing your thing as a woman. And give some thought as to whether a man like this can truly make you happy or not. My guess is that he'll be back...but it may not be for another couple weeks or so.
And don't worry about what your male friend said. He's thinking about what it's like to be the man in that situation and he's not giving much thought as to what it's like to be the woman in this situation, and what this man has been putting you through emotionally with his treatment of you. Yea, your response was a bit harsh but guess what...this man's treatment of you was a bit harsh as well. You get what you give. If this man wants warmer treatment from you, then I'd suggest he warm up TO you, ya' know?
It's not about punishing him dear, it's about holding your own against his treatment of you and not getting run over and left for dead. It's about keeping things fair and balanced and not over-investing into someone that isn't investing into you. If this guy doesn't like your treatment of him in that last text, then he needs to give some thought as to why you responded in the manner you did. He needs to give some thought as to how HE has treated YOU. Give him plenty of time to do that and see if can't figure that one out for himself ;-)
As always, your view is spot on. I felt his behaviour was "self absorbed" but felt, maybe, I was the one expecting too much (you know... women and our guilt the minute we are a bit short or cold). I am glad I didn't go wrong, I was truly doubting myself after he ignored me.
I will follow your advice and keep moving unless he has an epiphany of some sort :-)))
There is someone else who wants to take me out on a date, I will give it a chance instead of focusing my energy on the last guy who appears to want more than he gives.
Thank you so much for taking the time to advice us, your blog and comments helps us to get wiser everytime :-)
Damnblokes
I stumbled upon this site and read many suitations similar to my situation. I really wish I would have known all this beforehand and I only wonder this. I realize I messed up after reading your advice. I met a man last month and when he ignored me after a few days I let him know how I felt via text. He was well aware I was into him, wanted him etc. It hurt my feelings being ignored that day busy or not and now that I jumped the gun and went off on him kinda but in a nice way (laying my feelings kinda on the table ) but yet calling him out. I'm afraid I will never hear from him again. We have only been corresponding a month and its only been 4 days since I exploded/overreacted. He read the text but hasn't responded or commented. I don't expect him to because I probably scared him away by being needy/demanding and all the things you say us women shouldn't do. I didn't know and I let my emotions get the best of me slightly. Does this mean he's gone for good running in the other direction? is there something I can do or is the damage already done?..... I need some insight because I made the mistake of not keeping my cool and none of these stories relate. I messed up already and I should have kept my cool and pulled back. He was into me, iniated contact, communicated, saw me, sent icons etc etc. He pulled back for a week and ignored me for a day. Tell a girl what to do now in hopes to reconcile.I even apologized for the blow up text and asked if we could be friends (very nice, polite, apology) and as of date (four days now) he's officially MIA. I am sad and miss him , I really adored this man. Please please give me some of your expert advice. thank you so much.
@Anonymous May 31, 10:29 PM,
"Would telling him that I'm going to start dating other people will make him chase me?"
Well, here's the thing dear. You're attempting to get a man that doesn't want a relationship to chase you and I'm not sure what the main goal for that is - what's the end result? He doesn't want a relationship, he only admittedly wants sex. So do you want him to chase you for sex, or are you thinking that might somehow make him chase you for a relationship? Because if it's for a relationship, I don't think any amount of chasing is going to change his mind on that one right now, he's just not ready. So in the end, all you'd get is more sex, ya' know?
I'd suggest you definitely date other men, but I wouldn't bother telling him about it, I'd just do it. You're not in a committed relationship and he's made himself clear on that one, so you're free to do as you please there and honestly, I think it's better for YOU. I think it'd help you to detach from him emotionally and free you up to see clearly. Additionally, I believe women should only spend their time and attention on men that want what they want, because anything other than that will only bring the pain of wanting one thing, and being disappointed when you're offered something entirely different instead :-(
"I’m not a patient enough to sit around and wait for a guy to make the first move IF I know he’s interested"
This guy's kinda toying with that phrase dear. Remember, he's already admitted this, "what I do is I stick around and pretend that I care." Loads of men do that to receive sex. They do exactly what this man is doing. And when men like that say they're "interested" - it's very murky territory. He's using that phrase because he knows that in a woman's head, "interested" means the possibility of a relationship. So he's manipulating that to his advantage.
But the reality is he's said he doesn't want a relationship and he has not told you he loves you and he hasn't asked you for a commitment. Taking that into consideration, it's highly likely that "interested" from him means interested in sex, interested in companionship and interested in keeping the 'arrangement' alive. But it doesn't automatically translate into interested in a relationship - and I think he's toying with that statement a bit to mislead. To lead you on, to get you to stick around, and to see to it that his arrangement with you stays in place.
Because he also willingly made this choice, "Option 1: We become sex buddies so he wouldn’t have to pretend he cared"..."He said ok you win option 1." Again confirming this is all only about a sexual arrangement for HIM.
And when men like this, act like this, " I said fine I’ll contact you. And he was like what?...He was like wait what? No that’s not what I want you all of you, I want to talk to you see you, be around you" that's them being angry at losing control over the situation...but it doesn't translate into them caring more or wanting a relationship all of a sudden. It's about control, it's about keeping his arrangement, it's about making sure he's got an outlet for his sexual needs....it's all about HIM. It's the classic textbook case of a man wanting his cake, and eating it too. He wants everything, without giving much of anything in return.
Cont...
"He is a gentleman and truly touches my heart."
I'm not so sure about that one dear. A gentleman doesn't use women for sex. And a gentleman doesn't expect or ask a woman to enter into a sexual arrangement like this because it's disrespectful :-(
"he had previously said that I shouldn’t fall for him. YES that threw me off, he said that and he meant it."
I'd suggest you heed his warning dear. This guy's not being a very good man, he's being a master manipulator. He admittedly emotionally manipulates women into doing what he wants them to do and into providing sex for him, without him being required to commit anything back in return. He's a classic "heart breaker" player, and if you stick around dear, you're going to get hurt. You're already getting attached and you're seeking ways to get him to react. But the thing is, nothing you do can make a man love you or want a relationship with you. Because the "block" to that lies withing him, not you, therefore you cannot control it. And you can't control a situation successfully once you're emotionally invested either because the emotions "blind" things. The emotions blind logic and logic is what is needed to successfully navigate a situation like this. And that's the number one reason why I don't advocate that women participate in casual sex arrangements...because eventually, they get emotionally attached - and hurt :-(
Women and men bond differently. Women bond during physical contact (sex releases endorphines in the brain referred to as the "cuddle" drug in women, but not men) and time spent. Men however, bond during times of absence, not during physical contact or time spent. When a man breaks away, he's doing so to see if he "feels" anything during that absence because absence is the time when they'll feel it, if it's there. And when men have sex, the release of endorphines doesn't happen for them. What happens for them is they get a big giant boost of testosterone...and that only makes them want to mate more, and with different women :-( It's the sole reason that I feel that casual sex arrangements are a lose-lose situation for women. The women provides sex and the sex makes her bond. The man receives sex and the sex only makes him want more of it, with different partners. It's a lose-lose for women :-(
Please think about yourself here dear. I know it's easy to look at things through the "ideal" lens. Meaning, the fantasy. It's easy to say, "I like him, I like spending time with him. If he'd only care the same, this would work." Women have a tendency to look at men through that glorified lens of "what could be" instead of focusing on the reality in front of them. Sure, he could be a great guy someday. But the reality is that right now, he really isn't, and there's no guarantee he'll ever decide he even wants to be that guy.
Try not to focus on what could be, and instead, remain in the moment...the moment of "what is." See this for what it is dear - a casual sexual arrangement. And one that he has signaled he doesn't intend on changing. Accept that and then decide whether or not this arrangement can make you happy. Can it fulfill your needs? If the answer to that is no, then it's time to break away dear, for your own wellbeing. Think about yourself here and not him. And do what you need to do to properly protect yourself. If it's a relationship you want, start to date other men that want what you want, and don't drive yourself crazy trying to pound a square peg into a round hole because it'll never fit, it won't work.
Cont...
YOU and YOUR happiness are what's important here dear. And if he is not the man to provide you with that, then the reality is that it's time to go - before this man really hurts you :-(
Think about yourself dear...in the end, YOU are all that's important :-)
35/Taurus,
"I probably scared him away by being needy/demanding and all the things you say us women shouldn't do."
Well, here's the thing dear. It's not just that women shouldn't do those things - no one should do those things. Because being demanding isn't going to win anyone any friends and being needy isn't very attractive to anyone, male or female, ya' know? There's a very particular set of "persuasions" that influence others and draw them towards you and those two things aren't on the list LOL:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/04/dating-tips-persuasion-influence.html
"I didn't know and I let my emotions get the best of me slightly."
Next time you feel like that, practice self-restraint and begin to cultivate skills that distract you temporarily, until your emotions have leveled off. For instance, next time you feel you might explode - put down the phone and go for a walk. Or leave your phone at home and visit friends or family. Things like that. Stuff that will distract you for an hour or so, so you can balance before communicating.
"Does this mean he's gone for good running in the other direction?"
No one can predict that dear :-(
"is there something I can do"
Here's what you can and cannot do:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html
The best thing for you to do right now dear, is focus on YOURSELF and forget about HIM for a while. You may or may not hear from him again and if you do, it may be a month or so from now. So be prepared to continue moving forward with your life and accept the fact that you cannot control others, you can only control your reaction to them. If you do that, hard as it may be, you will find it will bring you piece of mind. Read the article above in the meantime as I believe they may provide you with the additional insight you seek.
And be sure to grasp a full understanding of human behavior facts. There are two that are VERY important:
The Law of Scarcity: People place a higher value on things that are scarce to them, things they have to work to earn. When something is in abundance, it's human nature to take it for granted:
http://ezinearticles.com/?Understanding-the-Law-of-Scarcity&id=184783
Fact Two: Uncertainty creates attraction. Why do you think YOUR attraction (or anyone's) soars through the roof to near desperate levels when a man leaves you uncertain? And why do you think that the men you treat with disregard and aren't interested in blow up your phone, while the man you want to call doesn't call? It's because of the uncertainty that exists:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/uncertainty-heightens-romantic-attraction-26363/
A few questions for you Mirror on a Disappearing Man!
A week ago, an ex whom has been texting me frequently for a couple months asked me to hang out. I refused, mainly because I didn't want the first time I saw him in months to be last minute. I suggested we hang out next week, and gave him three days I would have some time. He replied saying he doesn't know his schedule very far in advance (he works 2 jobs) so I said when he finds out, let me know and we'll figure something out.
Fast forward to next week: NOTHING! All 3 days past by uneventfully with not even a peep out of him, text-wise. However, I saw he posted a picture on social media late in the evening on the first of the 3 days I had originally suggested, and I "liked" it, a day later. Yet I have still heard nothing from him. Was I being too rigid?
Also, I found out he was working at least 2 out of the 3 days I had suggested. But why wouldn't he at least say he couldn't hang out on any of them, or follow up? I don't understand why he would behave as if he wanted to hang out, yet do nothing about it. Funny thing is, I don't think this is a "Guy Thing" only...I've had my girl friends bail on me in the past in a similar fashion, only to come back a few days later with an excuse.
Anyway, in the meantime, what should I do? Do you think I will hear from him again (even if it is just with an excuse?) And if I do hear from him, how should I respond? With my girlfriends, I just play it off and let them reschedule, but this is an ex we're talking about here, and I don't want him to think that this irked me in the least! But if I was a guy, and for the past couple months have been working toward getting an ex back, I would JUMP at the chance to hang out with her, no? I don't understand him!
Thanks Mirror!
Great article I just read which sums up what MOA has been telling us all along.
https://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/why-george-clooney-proposed-her-not-others-221200167.html
The only part I don't believe for a second is she rejected him and didn't give him her number. I think journalist make up these details to sensationalize the story between them. How do they know these details "He emailed her...."
She didn't exactly have a million guys at her door asking her our so I am sure she was very flattered by this.
@Anonymous May 31, 10:29 PM,
"Would telling him that I'm going to start dating other people will make him chase me?"
I am not an expert on relationships but I dated a Taurus man a few months ago and HIGHLY recommend you Google them. Your guy is a typical one I would say (Like Clooney). I think if you read about the Taurus man and understand him better, you will have him eating out of the palm of your hand.
Women do not do well in friends with benefits situations as much as we try to convince ourselves that we do well. No judgement but men want to hunt and chase, so let the suckers do the work!!!
MOA amazing explanation on the crumbs. I went through it 100% and cringe when I look back and remember waking up at odd hours of the night to see if he is on Facebook messenger or MSN or to see if he sent me a stupid message or response so I can go on with my day feeling "good". Waiting for those damn crumbs was a waste of my time and lame. NO MAN should be your lifeline.
Based on my observations Middle Eastern women get their men hooked and make them put a ring on - hate to use same example but think Clooney and Amal! How do they do it? They use the rules that MOA explains here. They act scarce and sometimes borderline bitchy with attitude. Well guess what these ladies score rings much earlier on then America gals. They also hold back on sex as long as they can, some till marriage. They act like women not men and let the guy chase - I think somewhere along the way Western women got their gender confused and started to act like men. A lot for us to learn from these women who act so subdued yet they manage to score rings without much effort - different dating practices in different cultures but always something to learn! This blog is amazing and I wish to God I read it when I met my guy a year ago, I would have avoided making so many mistakes. Never ever ever ever get comfortable and chase a man back when he is chasing you. I have now a few guys chasing me and I look at the number of messages they sent without my response and think wow desperate and this is how my guy probably saw my messages ICK!
@Anonymous Jun 4, 9:30 PM,
"Was I being too rigid?"
Absolutely not. What you did was you smoked out a man that was, most likely, positioning himself to take full advantage of your history together...during a hookup. And when you signaled that you would only accompany him on a proper date, he bailed (as most players and hookup seekers will do when they realize they're going to have to work for it).
"But why wouldn't he at least say he couldn't hang out on any of them, or follow up?"
Because if he's what I suspect he is (a player/hookup seeker), then he thinks he knows women - well. And he thinks he can accurately predict their reactions (to being ignored). And he's attempting to bring your insecurities to the surface (it's already kinda working, you're here after all), so that he can get YOU to become desperate for HIS attention (and chase him, giving him the upper hand).
"I don't understand why he would behave as if he wanted to hang out, yet do nothing about it."
It's commonly referred to as "the game."
"I've had my girl friends bail on me in the past in a similar fashion, only to come back a few days later with an excuse."
Funny you mention that. I just wrote an article about how technology is damaging ALL of our relationships (and permitting people to behave badly, and without consequence):
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/06/social-media-damaging-society-relationships.html
In your girlfriends cases, I believe all this tech has a "monkey-see, monkey-do" air about it. They've probably been treated like this in the past, so now everyone thinks it's fair game...it's the "norm" to behave rudely.
"And if I do hear from him, how should I respond?"
He has no reason not to circle back, so chances are, he will. But when he does, don't jump on that communication. Based on his behavior so far, he's going to have to prove himself here and work at this because he's already signaling he may have ulterior motives here and he's playing games going about fulfilling them. If you jump, he'll assume "desperate." And if he assumes desperate, he'll attempt to use you. And if he uses you, he'll disappear. So don't let that happen.
"I don't want him to think that this irked me in the least"
That's why you say nothing - no confrontation. Instead, you SHOW him (through your actions), that you're unimpressed and could care less, he hasn't gotten over on you, and you've been too busy to even notice. By doing that, you signal that if he wants your focus - he's going to have to come up with something much better than transparent high school games (because you're unaffected by them and unimpressed).
Cont...
But here's the thing...he may not have been working to get an ex back. He may only have been working to get laid, or to create a casual sexual "arrangement" type relationship for himself. A friends w/benefits situation.
Additionally, ever notice that men don't really "jump" for anyone, particularly women (unless they're in love). That's a female thing to do. Women are used to jumping at opportunities like that but men go about it completely different. They come at it from the opposite direction entirely - they "play it cool." And why shouldn't they, it works like a charm. As I mentioned above, they instinctually know that when they "trigger" a woman's emotions by doing so, the women suddenly becomes emotionally vulnerable. And what better way to win the war, than to expose your opponents vulnerabilities, ya' know? It gives you the upper hand and you get to face off to a weakened opponent versus one operating at full capacity. It increases your odds of success before you even make your play.
Women have a tendency to confuse male "simpleness" with lack of intelligence on some level. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just because someone does things "simple" doesn't mean they're not smart. Just like how someone who is kind, is not necessarily weak. Men are well versed in female emotion when it comes to mating - it's a gift of Mother Nature that they're born with, to increase their odds of successfully mating to continue perpetuating the species. It's a primal survival mechanism. Never underestimate their intelligence about the subtleties of "the game." And when they pretend like they don't know what you're talking about when you accuse them of playing it - don't buy it. They KNOW EXACTLY what they're doing. And they know that admitting to it would give away their secret, so they don't ever break that male code that exists surrounding it. But if you just search the net, you'll find TONS of pieces like this:
http://emmyboy.hubpages.com/hub/how-to-play-mind-games-on-women
They're not stupid, they do this crap on purpose because they know they have a 90% chance of the woman reacting to it in a certain way....one that gives them the upper hand.
I used to have an argument about this with a man I dated years back. He'd deny, deny, deny. Then one day, his mother had an encounter with his father, her now ex husband, over an extenuating circumstance. She was being the typical woman, feeling guilty about her behavior. I normally never interject myself into familial situations but this time, I simply could not watch this fantastic, loving, giving, caring woman beat herself up any longer. So I interjected and gave my two cents on the matter and told her what I thought she should do.
Two days later, she did it - and it worked. She went to her son in amazement, telling him how bad she felt, how she thought what I told her to do would cause more problems, etc. but she did it anyway, and low and behold...things worked out to her advantage with him for once. And you know what my then boyfriend, her son, told her after she informed him of this?
He said, "[My name] is diabolical. I'm telling you, she's diabolical."
Cont...
She got the biggest kick out of seeing her son so stumped over a woman's behavior, and his description of it...that she came to me and confided in me what he said - that he thought I was diabolical, LOL. She said to me, "I've never seen him like this before with any other girl he's ever dated (as she was giggling, telling me this)." He thought I was fiendish and wickedly cunning...because I was onto THEIR game, the male game, LOL. He didn't see himself as fiendish and wickedly cunning for playing the game in the first place...but he thought I was diabolical for actually figuring it out - and then using it against them, beating them at their own game LOL.
Bottom line..these guys know full well what they're doing when they do this stuff. Don't let male "simpleness" cloak their intelligence about female ways. Sit tight with this one. Do not reach out, do not contact. Let your silence create a curiosity that eats away at him until HE comes to YOU - and when he does, don't jump...play it cool ;-)
@Ms. Mirror,
"Just because someone does things "simple" doesn't mean they're not smart. Just like how someone who is kind, is not necessarily weak."
Perfect.
Thanks for that great advice Mighty Mirror! And guess what? I have a little update for you on the Disappearing Man ;)
Last night I received a text from him saying he was sorry, he got really busy suddenly and he does want to see me. This is coming a day after the last of the 3 days I told him I was free.
Well, great that you're sorry, and that you do want to see me, but as you said Mirror, actions tell the tale and I'm not gonna get taken for an emotional ride by a potential punk player!!
Gonna play this one cool, and if he really wants to see me, he has my number...all he has to do is learn how to make a damn date! Let's see if he steps up!
Hi Mirror,
I absolutely love your answer to anonymous Jun 4, 9.30 p.m. Diabolical, vow, I can imagine him believing so. Just because you outsmarted him you were placed into the category of evil women...lol
My news: The cyclist has contacted me again on Thursdy after not being in touch for about 4 weeks. I was in a good mood so I answered the phone. Needless to say, he didn´t bother to apologise for his disrespectful behaviour on our last date. He called to invite me to go cycling this weekend. I told him I had already planned something. He asked what. I said: "I am going to stay at home, make myself a delicious cup of coffee, put my feet up and do nothing". He repeated: "Do nothing?", his voice trembling. He was really dumbstruck, this was something he didn´t expect. As you wrote, he was sure he had control over the situation and me but he had underestimated me. He remained speechless on the phone, literally. He must have started analysing straightaway what I might really be doing at the weekend because I doubt he believed me as I was always happy and welcoming when he had asked me out before. I wished him a nice weekend and politely ended the conversation. Now I have control and I can do whatever I want. It serves him right!
Mirror and all the ladies, have a nice weekend and enjoy whatever you are doing,
HopefulWithMen
P.s.: I am going to continue reading the latest posts. (-:
@ all the ladies,
The Power of A Woman by Lee Brice: http://youtu.be/qf_a2Ay6Kk4
{{hugs}}
@WomanPower,
I recently ran across the link you had suggested I view awhile back. WOW!
Hypnotherapy for Happiness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veETG-PczWk
Thank you for sharing. I couldn't do the imagery, but the relaxation was wonderful. I also noticed there were many more listed... I had no idea this was available on web... I will be listening to more. Thanks again! And sorry it took me so long to view it (I don't think I was ready before.) :-)
I usually don't write on blogs but this one (and you MoA) have empowered me in so many ways. I want to share my story.
So my DM decided to contact me 10 days after the last time he called and I didn't answer because he ass was playing games and I didn't have time for that BS and guess what? You guessed right! I didn't answer. Of all things, he decides to contact me via FaceTime (he's NEVER done that before, it's always been me to request FaceTime) to which I did NOT answer. I texted him 3 days later which was yesterday and do you know it took him over 2.5 hours to text me back. I laughed my ass off, MoA! The nerve of this joker! My girlfriend asked me what I was going to say when I told her what happenend. I had something in mind to write but you know what? I decided to wait 2.5 hours to text him back (like he did me) which would have put the time past midnight...I thought about it and said to self, "I'll text him tomorrow because he can wait. He's on my time, I'm not on his". And that's what I did. I did NOT text his ass last night, I MAY text him today just like I may not. My girlfriend thinks we both have feelings for each other but because we are both stubborn (I'm a Cancer and he is a Scorpio) that we're both playing games and I told her "I guess, but I've got to do what I must to protect my heart and my feelings. I'm showing him the same interest he shows me".
I feel more in control of me. This methodology you've shared MoA is somewhat new to me. As a Cancer, I'm an emotional creature (not to mention being a woman, too, lol) and I'm very loving and kind-hearted. I treat people as I want to be treated but with this guy and the guys to come, I'm going to treat them like they treat me.
Regarding the discussed DM, we're not in a committed relationship (he's in one state and I'm in another but we do know each other from childhood), I can't even say we're even casually dating although we have been intimate; however, this guy flipped things on me saying it would be one thing (casual) and starting acting like he wanted me (mixed signals). I give him what he wants and he starts acting differently. Had me all messed up emotionally and mentally. I'm so happy I came across your blog which I've been reading everyday for almost 2 weeks (same posts but it helps me) which has empowered me to take back my strength, control my emotions and flip the script on these men who think they can treat me any kind of way. Who wants to be that woman who's constantly being mistreated, sad, depressed, and emotionally damaged because of some jerk? Not this woman right here. Ain't nobody got time for that!!!
MoA, I sure do wish I had seen this 5 years ago! But now that I know better, I'll do better! Thanks for sharing your insight and being an inspiration to us women.
Oh one more thing MoA: A guy friend told me that we woman have all of the power but we just don't know how to use it. He said that men are weaker than we know. They just hide it better than we do. Isn't that something!
~Lumiere
@Lumiere.
"A guy friend told me that we woman have all of the power but we just don't know how to use it."
Amen! I've said that repeatedly in the past...women have something men want - the "va-gi-gi." Period. Case closed.
"My girlfriend thinks we both have feelings for each other but because we are both stubborn (I'm a Cancer and he is a Scorpio) that we're both playing games"
I see it a bit different. I see it as you maintaining the pace that HE already put into place. If he can take 10 days in between communication, then so can you. Why should you be banging your head against the wall attempting to speed things along when he's the man in the situation and should be the one stepping up to the plate, ya' know? Women, much like your girlfriend, attempt to control things without even realizing it. Attempting to speed things along, have them move at a pace that races into relationship territory in lightening speed, etc. - and that rarely, if ever, works. Yet many women have this mindset that it's THEIR job to do that. And it isn't. The man is the leader and as a result, he should set the pace.
If he's dragging his feet or taking his good old time, the answer to that isn't to jump in, take the lead and bang your head against the wall attempting to speed things up. The answer to that is to accept that you cannot control others, only your reaction to them. And your reaction to that should be to continue moving forward with your life, dating others until he asks for a commitment, and doing your own thing and whatever makes you happy...without worrying what some man thinks about you, that isn't even bothering to worry about what YOU think about HIM.
"I guess, but I've got to do what I must to protect my heart and my feelings. I'm showing him the same interest he shows me".
Exactly. And if he is dissatisfied with the progress, then he needs to man up and pick up the pace himself first, if he wants you to follow suit. Sure, you can step in a try to move things along yourself. But if you do that, it leaves you unhappy, it creates a low sense of self-worth, and it places you in the less powerful position...trying to push a boulder uphill. It's much more rewarding to relieve yourself of the pressure of doing so and to simply continue enjoying your life and moving forward...permitting him to catch up with you if he so chooses.
In the end dear, it's not about getting the guy. It's about filtering through them, to make sure that the right one rises to the top...and the bums and losers fall to the bottom. It's also about maintaining your sanity and a high sense of self-worth so that dating is less miserable and more fun, once the right man rises to the challenge and treats you as you wish to be treated, instead of letting all of them run over you and leave you for dead like roadkill :-)
"Exactly. And if he is dissatisfied with the progress, then he needs to man up and pick up the pace himself first, if he wants you to follow suit. Sure, you can step in a try to move things along yourself. But if you do that, it leaves you unhappy, it creates a low sense of self-worth, and it places you in the less powerful position...trying to push a boulder uphill. It's much more rewarding to relieve yourself of the pressure of doing so and to simply continue enjoying your life and moving forward...permitting him to catch up with you if he so chooses.
In the end dear, it's not about getting the guy. It's about filtering through them, to make sure that the right one rises to the top...and the bums and losers fall to the bottom. It's also about maintaining your sanity and a high sense of self-worth so that dating is less miserable and more fun, once the right man rises to the challenge and treats you as you wish to be treated, instead of letting all of them run over you and leave you for dead like roadkill :-)"
Amen! God bless YOU and thank you again for creating this site and taking the time to reply to us you are so awesome Mirror and reading that is a reminder to me that i am worth more and deserve better despite how much my ex told me that im ugly and not worth anything and im not good enough to be with him-i believed it for some time but i know better now and it was all just a projection of his own insecurities and lack of self worth. Dating now is about weeding through the losers and bums like you say (and there are a lot of them) to find the prince that deserves to be with you. My girlfriend says that these days things are different and you cant sit around and wait for a guy to come to you and you basically have to be the aggressor but none of her relationships have worked either so obviously that mindset isnt working for her. Shes been used, cheated on and left for roadkill again and again and still wants to be the one in control wearing the pants lol..ill keep my pretty dress on and maintain my pride and power as a woman and let a man -man up!
Thanks again <3 <3
MoA, Lumiere here again. Thanks so much for replying. I need your advice if it's not too much trouble.
So I texted "GM. Nice hearing from you. Glad things are well. I've been busy lately, we'll have to catch up. Have a great day, ttyl"...this I somewhat stole from you (hope you don't mind). Now, it took him approximately 12 minutes to reply "Ok u too". Now see, this is the crap I'm talking about. It took him forever to reply last night but 12 minutes this morning.
MoA, I know you don't tell us women what to do so I'll ask what do you suggest I do from this point forward? I won't lie and say I don't like the guy because I liked him before we were intimate (I actually had a crush on him during our childhood). Do you recommend implementing the NC rule to see if he'll "fall to the bottom" or "rise to the top"? One of goals, aside from controlling my emotions, is to put things back in his court to see if in fact he's interested in me (likes me) or if he's just a "player".
I hate to sound like a broken record but I truly believe (as you do) that if a man is interested in a woman, he'll show it. His words will correlate with his actions. I'm somewhat old-fashion when it comes to dating but living in these modern times where women have become increasingly aggressive, I, too, have found myself jumping on that bandwagon. I must say, I don't like it one bit. I prefer for a man to pursue me and "court me" as they say. Many of my friends think I’m too picky and many men think I'm too "siddity"/snobbish when in fact, I'm simple. I just don't have time for BS and I tend to get duped bc their asses flip the script on me once I've developed feelings.
One last thing: so to get my mind off of the discussed DM, I reconnected with an old flame (DM #2). We settled some old matters and had a great time together. Shortly thereafter, do you know this fool (yes, fool) had the nerve to ask me for $$$ dollars...yes! I purposely didn't write the amount because I was dumbfounded. When I didn't reply, he retracted saying "I don't want it to seem like I’m using you" and then ended the text with an "I love you". I still didn't reply so he texted again saying "you're making me feel some kind of way by not responding"...still no reply. This joker called me twice, I did not answer. The next day I let him know that I felt that he played on my feelings to use me". Long story short, HE got pissed at ME for telling him how I felt about what HE did and what HE said. The nerve. I've not heard from him since and guess what? It's ok. Needless to say, he fell straight to the got damn bottom! What is going on with these men today? Have we (independent women and this independent movement) contributed to the lack of real men/gentlemen out here today? Sheesh!!!
I sure do know how to pick 'em don't I? LOL!
~Lumiere
@Pisces Girl,
What's the definition of insanity?
"My girlfriend says that these days things are different and you can't sit around and wait for a guy to come to you, and you basically have to be the aggressor...shes been used, cheated on and left for roadkill again and again."
The definition is "doing the same thing over and over and over again - and expecting different results."
Sounds to me like you're girlfriend is letting fear steer the wheel - fear of being alone. So she's trying to drive the car, it's veering wildly out of control, she's wrecked it a few times so now it has some dings and dents...but she's got the pedal to the metal anyway...and is headed for yet another crash.
That's the result of low self esteem. She fears being alone and doesn't believe that if she's patient...anyone will ever approach her. So she has to dance around, constantly staying on a man's radar for fear he'll forget about her, and she's crashing and burning at every turn, not learning from her mistakes...and has never realized her value as a woman. She's selling herself short and "settling" for lots of crap treatment - just to feel alive and worthy :-(
@Lumiere,
"One of goals, aside from controlling my emotions, is to put things back in his court to see if in fact he's interested in me (likes me) or if he's just a "player."
If that's the case, then don't do a thing. Keep moving forward and see if he circles around to you again. If he does, there's interest. If he doesn't, then keep moving forward and don't look back.
"Have we (independent women and this independent movement) contributed to the lack of real men/gentlemen out here today?"
Well, I think what's happened is that they don't have to work for anything anymore. Instead of how it used to be which was "low supply of sex, high demands" - we've now moved to "high supply of sex, low demands." Basically, female independence has more or less "over-sexed" men to the point of no longer requiring them to "value" it as highly - meaning, they no longer have to work for it, it's simply being handed to them right and left. And so now, when a woman signals a man has to work to obtain it...all of a sudden, she's viewed a high maintenance woman.
"HE got pissed at ME for telling him how I felt about what HE did and what HE said"
Prime example of shifting blame - and a prime example of a loser who needs women to support him because he isn't man enough to already be doing that himself.
"That's the result of low self esteem. She fears being alone"
yes shes admitted this Mirror and like me she also has daddy issues :( so i get wanting to hold on despite the poor treatment, feeling like shes settling and not being happy but the result is even lower self esteem, depression, feeling lonely, anger/bitterness/resentment -its all so toxic and draining!
Men prey on vulnerable insecure women with issues and i realize the games they play now..mr texter hasnt messaged me all day and i know exactly what he's doing and im not playing that game Mirror not this time-my old insecure self would have messaged him hours ago to check in and make sure he's still alive and well and make sure he doesnt forget me, but not this time -nope. If hes truly interested in getting to know me ill let him come to me otherwise ill carry on in my life as i did before he resurfaced. I hate when they reappear and you cant even remember why they disappeared in the first place and what kind of note things ended on(hmm maybe this was why) lol -i think soon enough it will all come back to me. But i am willing to give him another chance because he's a lawyer and educated and speaks intelligently and knows a lot about wine and we seem to have a lot in common (or as far as i could tell from texting) and thats hard to come by these days -most of the tools i come across nowadays are jobless/uneducated losers who are audacious enough to think women should bend over backwards for them wear the pants and buy them a happy meal-disgust! i refuse to be with a loser who thinks women should feed and clothe them and satisfy their every whim. Id rather be alone than have a man-child. And funny thing is despite all you do for them -they still end up walking away into the next woman's arms and leave you broke, depressed and feeling used and discarded. NOT WORTH IT! if you come across a chump who's trying to borrow money from you or pay for shit or live rent free- RUN FOR THE HILLS!! thats the epitomy of a self-entitled, selfish LOSER!
Hi Gemini50, MOA and all ladies,
Glad to hear that you've found it useful. I remember that you were so unhappy that time because of the scorpion-man and I wanted to share how to get rid of it. You can try another meditation, self-hypnosis as well: Cutting cords of attachments. You can choose one on youtube or only use your imagination. It helped me to forget about a wrong man I became attached and could not stop thinking about him, even though it was me who decided to finish that grotesque short relationship. Those memories of him were disturbing me even in a new relationship and I had my doubts if I did well to finish it with him so fast. It's a bit similar to your scorpion: you know it's damaging, but you have already created a habit of thinking of him...
If it is correctly done this meditation-self-hypnosis is extremely powerful. The idea is that we are all attached with invisible "cords" with other beings we love and there is energy circulating between us. Our emotions are kind of energy we give and receive. The problem is when we know that we got attached and give our emotion to a wrong person who benefits and drains it from us.
My first session was a surprising discovery because I could not imagine to cut it and was still hoping that I could meet him in the future and he will be different. It seems like a shining light cord and I saw his smiley face to me. I stopped it and decided not to continue, however rationally I become convinced that I need to do it. Some time passed and then I decided to imagine it and dissolve that cord. Not only that evening I was successful to cut it, during that night had a lucid dream where I saw him disappearing in the space in high speed. I could see even from such a distance and the speed separating us - his eyes staring at me in amazement. It was a strong freezing feeling.
A strange thing happened next morning. We were not in touch anymore and at 7 o'clock am I received a simple hi, how are you message from him. I was so shocked because he got "it" and that meditation really worked for me. I think it's very important moment not to answer such a message and didn’t turn your head while walking to your new future. Even if you have an incredible temptation to do it, don’t do: it’s a delusion and you may end up in circulating in an old sick pattern.
The benefit of this meditation is that you can see and reinforce your "cords" with other people and if you're gifted in that domain it's a great place for telepathic communication as well. Maybe MOA you have some experiences with such a healing as well :)
Wish you good luck in your journey and healing process.
MOA,
It's been a couple of weeks since I found out the issue with my DM ( he got the socialite pregnant and said they were getting married). Of course I have not heard from him and really I don not care. I have the distinct feeling that not only does he feel like a dumbass about the situation he's in but he feels if I don't tell her I can come back around again when I divorce ( that's exactly what's going to happen).Its so bad his own family told me that they suspect it'll last a year but likely less. So I decided to get a male perspective on the matter and I have to say every female should have a really good male friend he basically broke it down for me and analyzed his ass to a tee. I could not believe it and ya know I couldn't agree more. Saying Mr. DM is the type of guy that expects the world to come to him and if it isn't easy or doesn't come to him he wont put forth his effort. He said not for nothing but he's an idiot he thinks a good woman is gonna fall out of the sky in his lap, you have to work for a good woman. Relationships are about perpetually being attentive to the needs of the other person. dating, engaged, married, the name changes the responsibilities are the same. With DM he never had what it took, he tried for 5 minutes and then gave up cuz it wasn't coming to him fast enough or too much work. So he decided to land something easy and easy to impress, he knows the type of chick she is. Let's face it if when you meet a guy and have a one night stand, give it up easily, using no protection you know she's done it before and they type of chick she is. Good enough to sleep with but not to take home to momma or date/ marry. He keeps his expectations low cuz he knows he's a slouch and he's afraid. That's why he demands so much control up front, if he didn't feel like he wasn't in control or about to lose control there would be no need to discuss it. I suspect he's afraid that if he really gives in and gives his all and the woman grows that she will outgrow him, not need him and walk. He has nothing to offer a woman other than $$$$. He was running game on you hoping to come on strong for a bit and then withdraw to see if you'll chase, that makes it easy on him and he knows how to manipulate you. He then let it fall to the side and went for something easier cuz it was too much work. He was using hoodrat techniques on a upper echelon woman like yourself. What a fool, that only works on chicks at the bottom of the barrel ( easy to impress, easy to bang) and he though no one was going to catch on to his game like he invented it or something. HAHAHA
The ironic thing with this douche is that he is now joined at the hip with a woman he doesn't know at all, all he knows is her name and the fact is she's a college graduate. Was she holding up her diploma while he was nailing her..... HAHAHAHA. He is now going to have a kid with someone that he has no clue about, doesn't want to present her to family and she doesn't want to meet his family or move forward with any plans. That's embarrassing and he's withdrawing from everyone hoping something or someone will bail him out. He's a lil boy!!!!!!!!!! They had these plans to get married but nothing has been done and the families haven't even met yet, she said she doesn't want to meet anyone or do anything. Ayyyyy Here we have a guy that wants control but yet he has no control in his life in fact he cant even control his own load but is now stuck with a woman that doesn't need him either. She has her own $$$ and what she is going to do is say I don't need this crap I'm out of here my Daddy can take care of me. Doesn't know what kind of mother she will be, if they even get married which I think wont even happen cuz let's face it if they were so worried about her reputation they would have gotten married already but everyone is stalling. hmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So Mirror, I found it interesting. He said so much more but its too long to post. It's KARMA, he's the type of guy that has always had everything done for him, given to him, come to him easily and NOW he has to go through the most painful, hardest and life changing events of his life ( marriage ?, birth of a child, divorce?). He has to go through all of that hard stuff and knowing that in the end it quite possibly will not work out, I suppose this is exactly what he needs to grow and mature. God is not without a sense of humor!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have this distinct feeling that he and I will see each other again and he is definitely going to reach out to me, much like he did the first time. Probably to complain about the mistake he made and blah blah blah. This saga is not over...
So Mirror what do you think, I found it hilarious and an eye opener...... Your right men are NOT stupid they know exactly what they're doing and my male friend just confirmed that :)
-- Jennifer
@Jennifer,
"every female should have a really good male friend he basically broke it down for me...you have to work for a good woman"
See ladies? GOOD men understand that you have to WORK to earn GOOD things. Bad men, like ole' DM here, feel the exact opposite - that everything should just be handed to them (entitled to it without having earned it). So when a man acts as if you need to "do" for him - RUN. It's the single biggest sign he's NOT a good man, and that he'll never make for a good husband, boyfriend or lover.
"He keeps his expectations low cuz he knows he's a slouch and he's afraid"
Exactly - he's insecure. And again, insecure men don't make for good lovers, husbands or boyfriends.
"running game on you hoping to come on strong for a bit and then withdraw to see if you'll chase, that makes it easy on him and he knows how to manipulate you"
That's a player's entire game in a nutshell - and yes - players are always very insecure men. If they were confident in themselves, they wouldn't feel the need to play games to manipulate women to spend time with them.
"He was using hoodrat techniques on a upper echelon woman like yourself. What a fool, that only works on chicks at the bottom of the barrel"
Exactly. Agreed 100%. And that's why I often refer to players as "slumming it." They're swimming around in the sludge at the bottom of the barrel.
"Here we have a guy that wants control but yet he has no control in his life in fact he cant even control his own load but is now stuck with a woman that doesn't need him either. She has her own $$$ and what she is going to do is say I don't need this crap"
Karma - is definitely - a bitch. LOL.
"he's the type of guy that has always had everything done for him, given to him, come to him easily and NOW he has to go through the most painful, hardest and life changing events of his life"
Time to put his big boy pants on and grow up. It's no longer going to be all out HIM anymore. Now, there's a child involved that is more important than him - and he (his ego) isn't going to like that one single bit.
"men are NOT stupid they know exactly what they're doing and my male friend just confirmed that"
They most certainly do, don't ever let them fool you. Like I said the other day, doing things "simple" does not equate to "stupid." Just like being "nice" does not equate to "weak."
Cont...
Player got played - and now - the jokes on him. I'm quite sure you're not the only one in his life noticing the irony in all of this. I'm quite sure he's the talk of his circle right now.
Funny how these things happen. When I was married, my then husband wanted no children. Yet when his mother would inquire, he'd signal to her that it was all ME. Seven months after we separated, ink barely dry on the divorce papers, he gets the girl he's seeing pregnant - and rubs it in my face like a big "HA HA."
Month later, baby is born, a boy. Another "HA HA" for him because he knew I always wanted a boy.
Well, turns out, the mother was remanded to rehab upon the birth of the child (not sure, buy I always guessed this poor child was born with drugs in it's system). And my ex is not permitted custody, so my ex in-laws take custody of this baby boy for the first 6 months of his life. Everyone got attached to the baby (except the one who should've been - my ex - as was later confided to me by his brother and father.)
So the 6 months are up and mom's out of rehab. She comes and claims the baby, then heads straight to the courts for child support.
And guess what ladies?
The paternity test reveals - the baby boy is NOT my exes.
Player (and his entire family) got played. Yea, karma is definitely - a bitch. I didn't even have to lift a finger for that one to play out.
And in the end, everyone was looking at him and thinking "HA HA."
Hahahahaha. He most certainly is the joke of everyone he knows, he has not been speaking to anyone just hiding out. My guess he feels like a dumbass right now having a child with a woman he only knows her name and the fact she's a college graduate. He does not want to introduce her to family and I suspect she is giving him a hard time and also does not want to make any moves. Well he wanted EASY he got it bigtime..... I have a feeling she might not be feeling him much right now and my guess their are bitter and despise one another. Forget trying to get married they cant even figure out which direction to go in. They wont last and his whole family says so, people are taking bets as to how long they will last the most is one year but at the rate their going my guess is less.
Mirror my first thought was hmmmm he should get a paternity test when the baby is born, not sure why I thought that but my friend and I did come to the conclusion that this kind of sexual behavior is not something that happened over night. Chances are she's done it before with other people. And from what it sounds like it was a one night stand and he was desperate. I have the distinct feeling that this is going to be a tumultuous relationship with the baby's mother, she doesn't want to move in and not make any moves. If she and her family were so worried about her rep wouldn't they have rushed to marry already? My friend said I suspect she knows what she is ( she gave it up so easily and no protection) and she knows the kind of guy he is. If it wasn't just a one night stand kind of thing she would have worked him more, made him prove himself worthy of her. But she knew he wasn't worth more just as she wasn't either hence the embarrassment to make introductions. I suspect he'll be back to tell me how miserable he is. Player got played!!!!!!!!!
-- Jennifer
LOL awesome story! Karma is a bitch and this is the only consolation i can get when i think about my narc ex who is now married and basically told me shes better smarter prettier etc.She is a doctor which makes me wonder how she was so damn clueless when it came to him-an uneducated self professed sex addict who admitted to me that there will always be other women and now hes married! i dont get it! Mirror when i had him i knew i was settling and could do better but there is something about seeing your ex with the new girl -the one he chose to marry and i guess it wasnt that which hurt as much as thinking that maybe she really is that much better than me and i am flawed-but he always made me feel that way and i cant keep giving him that power. She made him change his # because i added her on fb and basically wanted to tell her that her husband of only a few months was still trying to hook up with me and i had the texts to prove it but i didnt do it. As much as he hurt my heart and as angry as i am everyday and feel like its not fair and not right that he did that to me after all our history, i didnt wanna be the one to ruin his marriage. But i dont believe shes caught on to him yet..biggest playboy who cant keep it in his pants wants to pretend he's the perfect husband now and im the crazy one not to mention he put me down to her lookswise and otherwise thats what really hurt. How is the disrespectful arse pulling this one off? i cant wait for the mask to crack and for her to see his true colors. They always end up showing eventually. Maybe she'll put up with it i dont know..All i know is i wont be happy till the person who did me the most wrong and hurt me the most in this world after alll i ve done for him- i wont be happy till he gets what he deserves and he was seeing her the whole time he was having a relationship with me and talking about marriage and a baby with me but he flipped the switch and because hes a selfish self entitled narcissist he went with what he deemed to be better supply...i pray to God everyday that he gets his karma Mirror because i cant t go on like this and forgiveness simply doesnt work !
@Anonymous Jun 11, 5:45 PM,
"basically told me shes better smarter prettier etc."
That's a bunch of nonsense talk - notice the "buzz" words he threw in there (purposefully)? Better, smarter, prettier..blah, blah, blah, LOL. Like...could he be more vague??? HOW is she better? HOW is she smarter? And who says HE is the judge and jury on prettiness? Like as if his opinion is the only one that counts.
When I hear toads (that never materialized into Prince Charming after being kissed) say stupid things like, "She's better" - you know what that translates as to me in "man speak?"
Translation: She's EASIER. She's easier to deceive.
That's what that always reads like to me. Like as if they chose the easy way out. The one that doesn't ask many questions, the one that's easy to lie to, the one that is naive and believes everything she's told (being a doctor only gives you book smarts, not street smarts), the one that does what she's told, the one that doesn't rock the boat...you get the idea.
"But i dont believe shes caught on to him yet"
BINGO! See...you sense it too.
"he put me down to her lookswise and otherwise thats what really hurt"
Of course he did dear - that's the gut punch he'd been waiting to deliver. Guys like this fight dirty, they don't enter the ring for a clean fight...because they know they'll lose that one. He wasn't going to pass up throwing something like that in your face - true or not. His intent behind that was to hurt you...not to be honest. So remember that.
Besides, you know how many millions of men on the planet are better looking than him? You know how many men on the planet are better in bed than him? Bigger "down there" than him? Puh-leeze LOL. That's fighting dirty dear - and that's what he was doing to you - purposefully. And because of that, you can't take what he's saying seriously at all. Because it was meant to hurt...it wasn't meant to be the truth. There's a difference.
"he went with what he deemed to be better supply"
I believe he went....where he saw two important things:
1) Easily deceived (naive).
2) Dollar signs (doctor)
She's probably going to end up paying for lots of boys nights out where he entertains other women - or a lot of prostitutes...or both. And she's probably going to buy him a real fancy car...to drive those other women around in. And she's probably going to make sure they have a real nice house...that he can entertain these other women in when she's working 19 hours a day saving lives, LOL.
Trust me dear...all will NOT be as it seems in that marriage. She thinks he saw true love. I think he probably saw a naive woman - and lots of dollar signs.
Wait till she ends up having to pay this fool alimony once they're divorced....
Thanks Mirror you're right he's definitely an opportunist! he always wanted to floss even though he's an overweight, uneducated construction worker but I guess his used cadi and claims of grandiosity (below the belt) attracted a fair share of hood rats. So having some money helps and I think he likes the fact that she's educated and has a real career unlike him because that makes HIM look better (she's an eye doctor not an ER doctor). As far as being naive when I used my fake fb account to message her and ask her for advice about what to do with my cheating boyfriend(I told her I just moved to the city and was looking to make new friends-i know I was doing some crazy things but was curious about her) she said if she ever found out her husband was cheating it would be over for sure because the best predictor of future behaviour is past behavior. Little did she know that cheating boyfriend I was talking about was actually HER husband! so she seems to have some sense but I think she's naïve in the fact that she just hasn't seen his true colors yet the one-the one who refers to women as bitches and hoes and clings on to his money because he's selfish, greedy and doesn't care about anybody else but himself and his son (from a previous relationship that he could never for the life of him get to work because she ''nagged'' him too much lol) and I'll admit I threatened telling her and used his texts as my ammunition because truth be told and im not proud of this at all- we were still hooking up the whole time before his marriage and after. I don't know how I went from the girlfriend he wanted to marry and have a baby with to his side chick but I couldn't accept just letting it go completely and I didn't realize he was married till earlier this year when he came to me to see me with his wedding ring on and I just lost it. Even though I knew about her I just couldn't believe he went and made it official like that -I pretty much lost all hope, along with any sense of pride and dignity I had by continuing to see him meanwhile he was having his cake and eating it too. By the way looks wise he is nothing special my girlfriends could never understand what I seen in him and a lot of times I couldn't quite figure it out but the mind has a way to play tricks on you I guess. If im really honest with myself it had more to do with sexual chemistry than having an actual love connection. Hence why, women cant have casual sex without emotions getting involved and im glad you make a mention of this.
So after his continued disrespect towards me and repeated stabs to my heart(my fault for allowing it I know) I finally had enough and I wanted to reach out to her this time from my real fb account and tell her about her husband but I couldn't bring myself to do it plus I could tell she's feisty and I could see how she managed to keep him in check.
I just keep telling myself that it will feel so much better when he ruins it himself then he cant blame me and retaliate. But he told her something about me that I am very insecure about and she repeated that to me so talk about adding insult to injury when I heard that and funny how he conveniently forgot to tell her that he was still creeping around with me even after they got married and while still wearing his wedding ring. He insulted me instead-but that's what kids do. She thinks she got a man but in reality she's got a man child-a broken down little kid and now she also gets to play stepmom to his son so even though she did win him I have to remind myself -what did win really because the truth is he is NO PRIZE! and then I just smile because I know what's inevitable coming her way.
By the way Mirror the clown would tell me how great she was and it had nothing to do with her looks (because she's lacking and i'm not hating because I can admit when a woman is beautiful) but it was about the way she makes him feel....aww how sweet! He would tell me this when he was coming to see me to hook up with me when I asked him why her and not me...Part of me allowing it to continue other than the fact that I had a comfort level with him and am too shy and awkward to talk to other men a lot of times was to prove that he hadn't changed just because he was married -he did however tell me that he wanted to become a better man and I was making it harder for him by tempting him (always my fault he never could own up to the part that he played) but I had to laugh because he never transitioned from boyhood to man hood to begin with (btw he's a bastard who never knew his father and because of me helping him find his father he got to meet him after 30 years and after opening the door the man on the other side still denied knowing him-very sad I know) but I attribute that to a lot of his issues as well as his mother abandoning him and leaving him with her parents to raise because she couldn't handle it on her own. Part of me wonders if she can change him though. It kills me to think she can come along and just pick up where I left off after all my hard work with him and dedication and the love that I showed him. Once when he came to see me he was showing off the ring to me asking me if I like it because I had pretended I wasn't bothered by the fact that he was married but it was really killing me inside so he intentionally flaunted the ring. Husband of the Year right ! lol I know i've made a lot of mistakes with him I can own that -he brought out the worst in me and I resorted to silly little tactics like pretending to be in love with his best friend to piss him off and make him jealous when I found out he was cheating and he still uses that against me but he actually did it I didnt.
He's a toxic human being. But I always do wonder if they can change for the next woman. |n my heart I know the answer and his actions have shown me as well.. but it still hurts that he gets to live this happy little married life with her and take trips and she posts the pics all the time and ive never seen him look so happy or smile so big and im alone and lonely and im hating my life. Makes me feel like I wasn't good enough for him and clearly he never loved me and it brings back memories of being called chubby big nosed girl growing up and never getting attention from boys or being flat out rejected by them-im not chubby anymore but still self conscious about my nose and he told her I have a big nose! she said that to me when we were messaging back and forth because the idiot went and told her the things I said about her looks (really big gums when she smiles and huge forehead and overweight) but he failed to mention he was still hooking up with me and loving every moment of it. Now after 10 years of him being in my life I cant get a hold of him since she made him change his # and even though I know its for the best I still want my revenge and I cant be happy get closure or move on till I get it and what sucks the most is I cant tell her as much as I want to because it will make me look bad too and he threatened to post pics and videos from when we were together on the net and he is the type to play dirty like that-total asshole I hate him so much.i cant stop hurting inside the hurt pain and anger is too much...im always getting sick I hope God answers my prayers
Hi Mirror!
Happy Friday! Sorry I haven't had time to reply back to you on your last response. Just want to keep you up to date, I didn't hear from my DM for over 2 months and as difficult as it was for me, I never texted him. I recently posted a pic which I haven't done in so long on FB since I was on my work trip and what do you know... I get several text messages from him, 2 months after...mm hmm. He was telling me how I great I look and reminding me that he's the guy I randomly text and we never got to connect again. He asked to see me again and I told him I'm leaving for work soon. He was like no no let's hang out before I leave. I told him I would text him back this week and I haven't done it yet. I'm confused as to what to say, I feel horrible and want to see him but I can't due my work conflict. I honestly want to see him again but the timing is just not right at the moment. I'm going to lose him aren't I mirror? Also, why would he text me after 2 Mos? The last time we spoke he asked me to hang out and I said I couldn't do that specific day but I gave him a different date instead, buy he never replied to me since...
I appreciate all your help and guidance.
Love, Life is short, Smile often :)
Hi, Mirror... What do you think of this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzaiR0g79So
Hi Mirror and all ladies,
I´d like to react to anonymous from June 11, 2014, 9:04 pm.
"But I always do wonder if they can change for the next woman".
I also used to think about this a lot in the past. But once, a couple of years ago, I watched a dating show on TV, which sticks in my mind even after several years and has taught me not to worry about HIM and his next woman.
Well, on this dating show episode a man was supposed to meet and spend some days with three strange women and choose one of them to go on holiday with. So this guy, 30 plus something, met the first girl, she was younger than him and actually she attracted me to the show as I was switching the TV channels, because she looked intelligent, nice and pretty. I thought: "What is such a lovely girl doing on a show like this?" and continued watching. Well, this man, who seemed quite decent at first sight, spent some time with this girl. On the second or third day they went dancing and she ended up a little drunk. Obviously, she wasn´t used to alcohol. She was inexperienced with men, quite innocent and after having that bit of alcohol it became apparent. However, the guy seemed to have spent a nice evening with her, they had a good time and then they had to part because he was supposed to meet woman number two the next day. This one was older, ruder or feistier you might say and knew how to twist him around her little finger. The guy even introduced her to his father in the course of a few hours after they met, then composed a song for her and they ended up in bed on the second night I think.The girl apparently didn´t mind that she was on the show which would be watched by many people. Then he was supposed to meet woman number three, which he declined saying to the crew he had already chosen the girl for him. The next step was to meet girl number one again and inform her that she wasn´t part of the game anymore. So the next morning we could watch him getting out of bed where he had been sleeping with his chosen woman to go and meet the girl number one in a restaurant. He told her she was dumped and she was so disappointed and unhappy, poor girl, she couldn´t hide it. Then the camera followed this guy back to the place he had spent the night with his chosen woman and he told her how he had dumped this girl number one and they made fun of this girl, how naive she was, how silly, etc. They both were literally laughing at her, they were so malicious I couldn´t continue watching it. It was disgusting. And then they were shown on their romantic holiday in Paris, holding hands, running happily across a square...
If the girl number one had seen them like that in real life, what would she have thought? Probably something along the lines of "woman number two must have appealed to him more than me so she must be better than me, etc. And she would probably have felt hurt or inferior for some time. However, the viewer could see these two in a different light and they both weren´t worth any effort on the side of any decent person.
So I just wanted to say that watching this show I realized that when somebody dumps you or treats you badly it usually doesn´t mean you are "not good enough", just the contrary. It usually means you are too good for them and they are unable to deal with that.
I wish you all nice Sunday,
HopefulWithMen
I like this last post by hopefulwithmen! I would just want to add that you always get on well and can make it work in the long run with similarly "good" people as you are. But it refers to other characteristics as well (similar interest, hobbies, similar temper, similar IQ, EQ, similarly attractive to the opposing gender etc), I dont believe that opposites attract and even when they do, it usually wont last. That is why when you find someone who thinks the same way as you, you are like finally someone "normal", when they are just actually your kinda crazy :) So dont be worried if you are dumped and then the guy gets on seemengly better with the next girl, probably they are just more similar (like in the show hopefulwithmomen mentioned, the guy and the chosen woman must have been equally shallow and superficial and rude).
"like in the show hopefulwithmen mentioned, the guy and the chosen woman must have been equally shallow and superficial and rude"
Like attracts like. Equal energies are drawn to one another - be it good energy or bad - birds of a feather will always flock together.
Hey Mirror...
This guy and I have been "talking" and have went on five casual "Dates" in the last 3 months. I have mostly been putting the brakes on the situation bc I feel like he is not looking for a girlfriend but just casual dating...so he has offered to take me out many, many more times. However, now, he has not called for two weeks even though he said he would. I think he thinks I blew him off...which I kind of did bc of his other "communication" issues. If he contacts, should I mirror his behavior?? Or answer in 3 days? I think his not calling is disrespectful bc he could have guessed I was expecting it. Or should I do 30 days NC?? I don't think he has been THAT bad bc there is a type of courtship going on here...but it is not very serious at all...but I still feel that he is being rude////
How do you handle these men that know they are being passive aggressive by not calling? I don't think it is bc he has no interest in me...more like he is pouting bc he is not getting what he wanted? Sigh.
Men are very immature these days if the woman isn't ALL OVER THEM....
Thanks,
Tired of Waiting for the Right Man
MoA, hope all is well. It's Lumiere with an update.
So I talked to my DM a couple of days (June 11) after I last posted here.
We talked for a total of 1.5 hours (he called me). I stated for him to call me and he asked me why couldn't I didn't I just call him instead. First convo was intense, of course he tried to control the convo but I held my ground. I shouldn't have been drinking but I think that may have given me the courage I needed to say some things. I won't bore you with too much of the convo SOME highlights:
Phone Call #1
Him: You can't force me to tell you that I like you. It should come naturally.
Me: I know that and it should but of course I want to know if you like me.
Him: If I didn't like you I wouldn't accept your calls or argue with you.
Me: Those women in your give you what you want and you're spoiled. I don't give you what you want and it's a problem. I bet you think I'm used to getting what I want too and that I'm spoiled as well.
Him: I'm not spoiled. Well yes, I am. (Pause) You're not spoiled. Well, a little bit. Me, I always get what I want.
More convo and then..."hey I'm gonna call you back".
Phone Call #2
Me: You're the man and I'm the woman, one has to lead. You're the man, you're supposed to lead. The man is supposed to be the leader. The one who pursues. The hunter. You know it says that in the bible.
Him: I don't want to lead.
Me: ((Flabbergasted)) You don't want to lead?
Him: What do you mean pursue?
Me: Call, ask on dates, buy flowers, show interest...that kind of thing. I'm sure your mom taught you that.
Him: ((long pause)) I've bought flowers before and done stuff like that. Hey, I'm gonna call you back.
Phone Call #3
Him: Because I'm a gentleman, I called you back to say goodnight.
Me: Enjoy your vacation.
So fast-forward to several days into his vacation. He had the nerve to text me at 5:16am (June 15) stating "send me a pic". Uhm, what in the world possessed him to think that I would be up at that time of morning and would even send him such a thing?
MoA, there are SO many things wrong with the phone conversation that I don't know what advice to even ask let alone the text message.
Him not saying he wants to lead turned me off. Him calling me back the third time to sarcastically state how much of a gentleman he is pissed me off. Him texting me that time of the morning rose my blood to Kelvin! He purposely does this I believe and I think it's so dang immature.
The entire situationship (because it's not a relationship) desperately screams NC! I think I’m more upset with myself for liking this guy than the crap that he says and does. My best friend suggested that I do one of two things 1) play the games & turn the tables back on him or 2) NC for about 2 months. The b-h in me opts for the first but the mature woman in me thinks the latter is best.
If I could only focus on my self-worth and muster the strength I know I have to ignore his calls and messages.
@Tired of Waiting for the Right Man,
That's really a personal decision dear. You have 3 options, wait 3 days, mirror his behavior or use 30 days of no contact - you'll have to decide which one best applies to your situation. But whatever you do, do NOT jump on a call or a text from this man.
"Men are very immature these days if the woman isn't ALL OVER THEM"
Amen. Many of them are so severely insecure as men that if they're not guaranteed a sure thing, they have absolutely no confidence to forge ahead whatsoever. And then they blame the woman, as if she's asking too much, instead of looking deep within themselves to address their shortcomings as men. Part of that is societal too.
Peter wrote an article about that very topic here, about modern man's failure to EARN his power nowadays:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/02/modern-man-power-failure-to-earn.html
Instead, many are running around acting like entitled spoiled brats if something isn't handed to them for nothing.
Thanks for the response.
Yes...I am just going to have to let this one go. He is definitely not serious, but still mad that I am not sleeping with him and all over him...LOL. Men these days are very entitlement...then when things aren't going according to their "plan"..they try to find fault with the woman's behavior in order to justify their flimsy "pursuit". It is really annoying..especially when there was chemistry and a lot in common/fun going on. Since he seems like a player type of sorts, he will probably resurface at some point...but I am going to mirror the behavior (3 weeks, etc.) at the least. Lots of unbelievable behavior...like going no contact for a week and then complaining that I don't text back/play games etc. What they try to do is project their bad behavior onto you...and make you think that YOU are doing something wrong...LOL..this seems like a classic player, manipulative technique. I follow the strict no initiation on texting and calling...so that probably already bugs guys that are used to more "proactive" women.
Thanks!
-Tired of Waiting for the Right Man
@Lumiere,
Honey...this guy is a complete tool :-(
And this comment of his was MOST enlightening to me, "What do you mean pursue?" He is so NOT a man, that as a man, he doesn't even know or understand what pursuing a woman really is! It's like some foreign concept to him. And you know what that tells me? He is NOT a man. He's a "man-child." An insecure little boy that lacks confidence, doesn't have the balls to take the lead, exhibits female "submissive" energy instead of masculine leadership energy, and doesn't even understand what pursuit of a woman means. He's basically got the emotional maturity of approximately a 14 year old boy.
He is far from a real man - which is why his behavior is driving you nuts. As a woman, you need and want a real man, a masculine leader. And as a man, he's unable to fulfill your needs, and it's disappointing you and letting you down.
And notice how when the conversation got a bit "deep" - he bailed? Twice he bailed with "gotta' call you back." Why? Is he the President or something? Is the press waiting for him to give a news conference? Doubtful. What he's doing there is "escaping" the conversation and the hard topics that will lead to him being forced to admit...he's a failure as a man with women...because he's unable to fulfill a woman's needs by providing her with a real man. Again, that's immaturity. Running away when you don't like what you're hearing and then returning and trying to be funny about a serious topic to throw the conversation off course. This guy isn't too bright if he thinks that isn't obvious here.
Don't waste your time on this man dear. He will drive you crazy, never be able to fulfill your needs, never be the man you wish him to be. He has no desire to lead like a man, instead, he prefers to submit like a woman and assume the feminine role. He has no understanding of what pursuing a woman or courting a woman means, he's selfish, he's immature...he's a man-child. And you need a man. If you want a child, you can always get pregnant...but you don't want the child and the man as a combo LOL.
Bottom line dear, nothing you do or say will ever turn this boy into a real man - because he has no desire to be one. And that right there means...game over :-( If you stay, he'll drive you nuts and constantly disappoint you and you'll exhaust yourself and spin your wheels and never get anywhere with him - because he's emotionally immature and will never "get it."
@Lumiere,
This will make you laugh dear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuEKST8LFkg
It's from the reality TV show on VH1 called "Tool Academy" LOL. And here are other clips that I'm sure you'll find entertaining:
http://www.vh1.com/video/misc/331914/slap.jhtml#id=1606743
I was pursued last fall by a Gemini man who seemed crazy about me for three months. We took things very slowly, but eventually we did sleep together on two occasions, only for him to then do a near disappearing act. I was becoming pretty crazy about him, even though there were lots of red flags, and I know, in retrospect, that it wouldn't have worked out. His exit from the relationship started with him no longer initiating many texts or calling me (even on Christmas Day--I finally sent him a text that simply said, "Merry Christmas," to which he responded--I was out of town for the holiday). The distancing happened after telling me that he had never felt so close to woman so fast in his life, that he was blessed to have me in his life, the old story. He is divorced. He called me after Christmas to break up, saying the problem was with him, not me, and that since his divorce, he loses the "romantic spark" once a woman reciprocates interest. (Perhaps we should say, once he's slept with her.) He said that this had happened three times now and that he was going to stop dating, because he couldn't keep hurting women this way. I handled it pretty well on the phone. But it did mess me up for several months, though I hid that from people out of pride. I did text him once, not about the breakup or wanting him back, something light, and heard back early on after the breakup, and then about a month later, a final one simply wishing him well, no response. That was the extent of my contact with him after his call to end it.
Nearly six months go by before we run into each other, as it happens at a store. We chatted for a little while, and he seemed happy enough to talk to me, asked after my job and my health, told me about what he'd been up to. I felt maybe there was a little closure after that.
This next part is what I'm having trouble with--after that encounter at the store, about 1 1/2 weeks later, I was at an event with a friend when I happened to see him walk by with a date. He saw me, but I am not sure whether he knew that I saw him, too (the lighting was such that he was in a lighted area when he looked over at me, while I was in darkness, in a theater, so I saw the expression on his face, which appeared to be horrified). They left for the lobby but came back into the theater separately, him just before the performance started. At the end of the evening, he absolutely bolted out of the theater with his date, first out, first to drive off. I wasn't planning to talk to them anyway, not sure why he'd think I would in that situation. As I was walking out, I could see him in the distance looking back as he headed out the door, and by the time we were on the street they were in the car and off. So it seems as if he was trying to avoid me, although I suppose it's possible not--I do know not everything is about me.
My question is, assuming I am right that he was avoiding me, why? He basically bolted and hustled his date out of there. Embarrassment over how he treated me? Discomfort about having the old girlfriend and new girlfriend together (though this woman has no idea who I am, I'm sure)? Fear that I'd make a scene (but why, when I never called or emailed him after the break up, and had sent the final text more than four months ago). It makes me feel lousy to think someone whom I thought was not just a lover but also a friend would actually run away from me like this. And it seems immature and cowardly on his part.
I just don't want a repeat of this behavior at other events where we might both attend. It's not a big town I live in, and it would be nice to keep things pleasant in such situations--you know, simply acknowledging each other with a nod and hello. He did hurt me, I know it's over, but I don't need to be treated like this, all the same.
Feeling like a pariah
P.S. from the Pariah--
This was obviously the first time I had seen him with a date, which of course stung a bit. She looked pretty young (he is in his early 50s). My friend had no idea that anything had happened, if that gives you an idea that I don't make scenes.
@Madame X,
Interesting. He's talking about a few very basic things that I often reference and stress the importance of: Fear, Confidence, the Law of Scarcity and a willingness to walk away and keep moving forward.
In the first story, he's sharing a male experience that is very similar to the experience many women here have...that of being too eager (and letting it show). And through his eager pursuit and the constant "do, do, doing" to keep things moving along - he blew it.
(I think this guy's been reading the site LOL ;-)
He says "it's always better for a woman to chase you" - GONG! Wrong. Because if a man does that, he'll only attract insecure, needy women who NEED to chase men. Strong, independent women, feminine women - prefer masculine men who take the lead. If the woman takes the lead, the man will submit. If the woman is dominant, the man will be submissive. Ying Yang energy will exist. Basically, if as a woman you chase, and come on strong, you're going to attract a weak man to yourself. Exactly as the man is talking about himself as - a beta male, not an alpha male.
But let's face it - these are psychological tactics that work both ways. So it's safe to assume men have also caught onto that LOL.
The particular man he's talking about in this video in the first story is admittedly a beta male - one that behaves weak, needy and too eager. So in this case, it's reversed, and he's expecting (needing) the woman to "man up" and take the lead, because when he attempts to, he blunders the experience. He's a beta male (submissive) not an alpha (leader).
In the second story, he said something that really hit home with me. He said, "Because if she were to ever feel she was in any physical danger, she'd know that you would effin' wreck shop. And take care of her and protect her." (The guy he's referring to is a military paratrooper.)
And that is so damn true. A man that's glued to his iPhone and xBox constantly and never learned to swing a hammer, throw a punch or take a stand (lead) - what's he going to do in that situation? Throw his damn iPhone at the attacker? And run away, leaving you to fend for yourself? You want a man ladies, not a mouse. A man will fulfill your needs, while a mouse will leave you feeling confused and unfulfilled and then - you'll start acting out, trying to "shove" him into action (which never works) verbally. Hitting him with things like, "Why don't you ever take me anywhere nice (lead)? Why don't you call me (lead)? Why do you disappear on me (run away)?" It's not really those things themself that are bothering you when you do that. What's really bothering you there - IS THE MAN'S LACK OF LEADERSHIP. That's the underlying cause of your unfulfillment. But because you can't pinpoint that necessarily, instead, you refer to those specific examples above - when the reality is that all you need from this man is for him to take the lead (instead of sitting back and waiting for you to shove him into action all the time).
It's the single most important reason why I suggest that women hang back until a man PROVES himself to her, and PROVES his WILLINGNESS to be a provider and a leader to her. I consider myself a strong woman and I have no problem actually submitting to a man's lead - IF he's a real man. I am NOT going to submit and follow some moron who's going to steer us into a ditch though. And when I speak of providing, the provisions I refer to aren't those to do with money. Provisions have to do with security and protection - very primal stuff that we all still carry deep within our DNA. You can provide without money. Cavemen did it by hunting (food), building (shelter), scouting (water). You can protect without money. Cavement did it by fighting, making weapons and jumping into the line of fire.
Cont...
As a man, to impress a woman, you simply need to show your WILLINGNESS to do so - not your money. If you flash your money first, you're going to attract a gold digger. It's like fishing. What you lead with (your bait) determine's the type of fish you catch. If you use trout bait, you're going to catch trout. If you use bass bait, you're going to catch a bass. If, as a man, you lead with your money (your bait), you're going to catch a gold digger - so don't rely on your money to help you catch women. Bring something to the table first as a man yourself. If you meet a great woman, sure spend some money on her and do special things for her (show your willingness to provide for her)...but do NOT expect your money to do EVERYTHING for her - do not lead with your money to catch her. Lead with your masculine qualities FIRST and then use your money to do special things for her from time to time (provide). If you do that, she won't submit to your money - she'll submit to YOU - as her provider, her protector - her man. I'm not saying you're going to have to start taking care of her...I'm simply saying she'll "look upon you" as her provider, her protector and her man - her rock. And as a man, that's a very good light to be looked upon in. It's conceptual, not literal.
For example, for any of you Walking Dead TV show fans out there...those folks in that show are living in apocalyptic times - no money. Things of value are now water, shelter, food and protection - very primal stuff. Do you think those women in that show would be better suited traveling with a beta male (fearful, submissive) or an alpha male (confident, leading)? Do you think a beta male can provide food, shelter, protection and water as good as an alpha male? Umm, no. If you watch the show, you'll notice that many of the beta men, who contributed nothing but bossed the women around to gather food, wash clothes, etc. - were the first to get knocked off and killed (some of whom were even killed or left for dead by the alpha males in their group I believe).
The survivors are now the alpha males. And some even started out as beta males and then through circumstantial experience, manned up and turned into alpha males - and then snagged an alpha female in the process (the pizza delivery boy, Glenn - and Maggie).
So now, deep into the apocalypse, the alpha males have more or less paired up with the alpha females. And the alpha females here I'm referencing aren't the one's being dominant and calling all the shots...the alpha females I'm referring to here are the one's who fall into their role appropriately. They're the ones providing support to the alpha males, letting the alpha males lead them, but standing right beside them shooting zombies and gathering food resources...with the alpha males leading the charge.
Cont...
That show provides the perfect example of the proper meshing of similar energies, strong energies, and just how well they work together....WHEN THEY FALL INTO THEIR APPROPRIATE ROLES. That show is a nod to Mother Nature's natural gender roles - man leads, woman submits. Those women in that show aren't getting run over by submitting to an alpha males lead...they're surviving and thriving ALONGSIDE an alpha male - and together - they become an almost unstoppable force. They don't fight for the lead, they let the leading men call the shots - and then they align themselves with them. Why do you think that show literally blew up the TV screen over the years with literally millions of fans? It isn't because of zombies, those are cheesy actually. It's because the underlying theme of that show resonates with just about everybody on the planet - food, shelter, water, protection - man/woman interaction under those conditions - and the demonstration of the importance of leading/submissive energies aligned. Those characters on that show are going through stuff just about everybody can relate to - and they're learning to change, morph and adapt for survival purposes.
It's primal stuff, deeply encoded within our DNA, that resonates with just about everybody on the planet. And that's what makes that show such a hit.
And I think more or less what this man is trying to convey in this video is how to properly strike that balance - not dicking a woman around with bad intent and then going "heehee" like a devil - but instead, stopping yourself from too STRONG of a pursuit that may push the woman away. And that's true, the balance is the magic, it's the key. Because anyone who comes on too strong, be it man or woman, will undoubtedly cause the other individual to retract and pull back from the force that is coming at them 100 miles per hour.
So what you see him basically doing in that video, in a nutshell, is similar to what I do here...which is simply attempting to slow people down, provide plenty of space and room to move, don't be afraid to walk away if need be, and then possibly drawing the individual back to you (even if they leave) by doing so - by appearing balanced, emotionally stable and flexible (carefree). Instead of appearing off balance, emotionally unstable and demanding (needy).
@Pariah,
"assuming I am right that he was avoiding me, why?"
Probably a combo of the things you mentioned that basically amounted to "awkwardness" setting in - and his unwillingness and lack of maturity to deal with it.
"it seems immature and cowardly on his part."
Exactly.
"I just don't want a repeat of this behavior at other events where we might both attend."
You can't control that dear. You have no power over that, so don't even bother taking that upon yourself. It's not your "stuff" causing the disruption here, it's HIS. As a result, it's out of your hands. You cannot control others - only your reaction to them.
The only thing you can do here when this happens is remain confident, friendly and civil - that's it. And if he cannot manage to do that for himself, then that's his problem dear - not yours. It's not a reflection on you or your experience with him in any way, shape or form...it's a reflection on HIM and his lack of maturity to handle a situation such as this appropriately like an adult.
Thank you Mirror. It helps to have someone objective reinforce what I thought. I am going to focus on being thankful that I am not involved anymore with someone that emotionally immature and let the whole thing go.
Pariah
Sad, but true! This is one of the best articles I've read on this and it's come at the right time. I get annoyed time and time again at the way that men behave, and when I am knee-deep in the dating game, I forget about their basic innate programming. I get "annoyed" at the games. Regardless if a man is a good or a bad person, I do think that games are instinctively part of the dating equation that we all have to recognize and accept as humans. I can't believe how many times I laughed when I read this article... and I NEEDED to laugh right now. The part when you said "gotcha bastard-game on," you just had me. That's what they all are. Good souls when they are your friends, little game-playing bastards when the romance is developing. And I also liked the whole notion about turning the tables. Eff giving them all the power, that's all I have to say. Yep, don't feel "bad" about not getting back tot their little game-playing asses as soon as they write you, those disappearing fools. You really do have to be strong enough to beat them at their game. Thank you so much for this article... and all I have to say it, my game face is ON and I"m going to see how this little experiment goes. :)
Ya. Mirror... I was thinking the same thing, he sounds like he's been reading your site. (Chuckle) For a minute there I was like, "Hey, he sounds like, Mirror, I like this guy." But then he said a few things... I was like, "Uh-uh!"
He sounds 'LAZY" He's making the guys lazy, yet I see what he's saying. He knows (most) women like to call guys. You're teaching us NOT to chase, that, that's where we go wrong for one thing. He figures that seeing that women like to call, let them have their own way. I think it's best not to chase a guy myself. Call once in a while if you're in a committed relationship like you said.
He tells the guys to be a Alpha male, but yet he's a Beta. One other thing, the thing that bothered me the most about him. - there wasn't much that did, but he says, "Stay near your place if you take her out." Never do lunch, like you said though - it's more romantic @ night. But yet, he keeps saying "DRINKS", but he also throws in coffee, tea, whatever you like to drink. ;) He says, "Appetizers & drinks, or you bring the wine, we'll cook here." A cheap way out for guys, huh? It's okay once in a while, but not when you first start dating, IDK so anyway. I know they prefer a woman to drink alcohol. (LOL) And take her back to their place. :/ Then he says, "Tell her you don't want to be friends. You want to be more than friends." (He figures, what most women want to hear)
I don't feel it's for reasons we want. He's saying it to make women feel like, "Ohhh, he cares about ME and ME only." He's saying is, "I don't want to be your friend, I want to be your BF." Translation: I want you to think I'm interested in YOU ONLY." But what I really want is sex." And then they'll play that same game on different women. He tells them, "Date around, don't get hung up on one women." (Which is good, but DON'T make them feel like they're the only one) Ya, it's interesting though to hear him read the letters from guys and the comments on his page and him himself. :) Hmp!
I really wish I hadn't. Needless to say he didn't contact me and about a week later I sent a text asking how his trip was and he responded right away and said when he figured out his work week he would contact me so we could get together again. Well, yes, you guessed it...the week went by and I didn't hear from him. I know I can't expect for him to take me seriously and have respect for me after what I did. I was really starting to like him and sleeping with him was stupid... bottom line. I started reading your blog around that time and vowed to NEVER do that again and go NC with him. Not to get him back but for me. I'm a pretty focused person and I have a lot of things in my life that bring me joy but I admit i messed up with him and I feel pretty stupid.
He ended up texting me last Monday asking me how my job was. I waited 3 days to respond and I responded with the text response you say to use in your disappearing/reappearing man section. Granted he responded 1.5 hours later with a weak response and then asking me if I've been watching the world cup. I waited an hour or so and said yes. I haven't heard from him and I know he will reach out at some point.
I just want to ignore him because he's annoying me. He can't even pick up the phone and he can never make a plan. Granted I was the one who would reach out and I can't believe I did that! I don't have the urge to at all. when he does TEXT me can I just ignore it or should I just mirror him? I mean, I was the one who freely gave myself thinking I wouldn't feel anything so he really didn't do anything wrong. But I am so mad at ME because I showed him that I was an easy woman when in reality I am not. I actually liked him until he started to show who he really was. Why would he keep texting me if he isn't asking me to do anything? It really doesn't make sense to me.
Sorry this was such a long post! I was hesitant in writing this because of what I did but I know you will set me straight. Thank you for being who you are Mirror!!
here's the beginning of my last pot! Sorry it was cut off!
My last comment was only half sorry! here's the entire post:)
Hi Mirror. Your site has helped me a ton over the past few weeks and I wanted to thank you. I would love your opinion on my situation but i have a strong feeling I already know your answer:) I met a man about 4 1/2 months ago in a running group I joined. We were all training for a big marathon and we are all pretty fast runners...(I say that because he was very impressed with how I could keep up with them).
I wasn't sure if I liked him so I kept it casual, very casual, as in I only would see him when we would all go running together. About 2 months into me running with the group he invited me to his bday party and I realized I may have a little crush. Again, I did nothing about it because I liked running with the group and I never wanted anything to get weird and uncomfortable if we started dating. Plus, I am ready for a relationship and I figured if he liked me enough he would show it and not care what anyone would think! This is the time I wish I had been reading your site!
Anyway, one night I randomly get a text from him saying that he was happy I made it to his birthday and he thought that we should 'hang out" and he also said "I think we would have fun together." I was excited but I didn't really take him seriously. He would randomly text me saying hi and when he would be out of town for work (he has offices in a few different cities in the states and is always out of town). We made plans (mind you he's been texting the entire time..no phone calls...ever. Red flag number 1) on a monday to meet up for drinks on that wednesday. When wednesday came he canceled that afternoon saying he wouldn't be able to make it and that he was sorry. No explanation as to why. Red flag number 2. We finally agreed to meet last minute...(I KNOW!! NO LAST MINUTE DATES!) that Saturday and had a great daytime date and he kept telling me how much he liked me. He kept kissing me and saying how much fun he was having. I ended the date with him walking me home and him going home. The entire next week he would text me saying he wanted to kiss me and see me again but he would never make plans. Finally, I said (in a text..lol) "instead of saying it why don't you just make it happen") to which he replied "I know!". Well he never did. He would always say how busy his work is and blah blah blah. He still kept on texting then one day I told him that I don't mind texting but when I'm getting to know someone I like to at least talk on the phone a few times. I also said I enjoyed running with the group and I didn't ever want it to be weird so i think we should just be friends. His response the NEXT day was, "I understand!"
Well, that should have been my clue an I should have kept to my decision not to text him again. A few weeks go by and I was bored one day and I knew he was out of the country and I text him that I hoped his trip was going well. He replied back right away saying hello and wishing me good luck on a race I had coming up and to let him know how I did. A few weeks go by and he would send me random messages. I know I went back on my word and started communicating with him again through text and I feel like an IDIOT. I feel even more like an IDIOT because I text him one night and he asked me to come over and I went against everything I thought I wouldn't do and I slept with him. I know...really stupid. I figured I hadn't been with anyone in a year and a half (getting over a breakup) and I liked him and well I did it. I really wish I
Dear MOA, first of all I would like to thank you for the wonderful advice and wisdom you so generously provide in this site. I think what you are doing here is awesome! But what I find most moving is the kindness and love with which you treat everybody (women mostly) who seek your advice and share with you and all of us their stories. I thank you all for that.
I would like to tell you about my story, as I am feeling really sad and confused, and would greatly appreciate your opinion and advice. I have been raising my daughter as a single mother for the past fourteen years, and have been out of the dating scene for much more than that. I went back to dating two years ago, as I felt I was ready to take care of that part of my life. I have met a few men since then, but nothing came out of it. The men I met were either not compatible with me or they didn´t want a committed relationship. I am European, in my late fourties, independent, strong, caring and attractive. I have also worked myself over the years on issues such as dependency (my ex was a very dependent person and I co-dependent, of course, LOL). I am looking for a true companyon.
Three months ago, I met this man through the internet. He is in his mid fifties, from another European country, but living in mine. He contacted me (I never initiate contact) with a really meaningful message, showing he had noticed something I had put on my profile that no one had before. We spoke for brief periods over a few days, and he asked for my phone number. He called me immediately and we spoke for nearly two hours. After the call, he sent me a powerful message, full of wonderful feeling. I answered immediately telling him he had moved me. He made it clear from the beginning that he wanted love, not sex, and was looking for a serious relationship. I was pleased with that and told him that I felt the same way. He then kept texting me all throughout the day, and asked every day if he could call me, sometimes even twice. We lived two hours away, and he thought that talking and texting was a way of knowing each other before we could meet in person. He described himself as a gentleman, and a caring a passionate person. We met after a week or so and it was wonderful. By this time he was already telling me wonderful things, that this seemed really different, that he hoped that I would like him... So, when we met, he dropped all previous caution (he had had a couple of bad experiences before regarding meeting in person) and came on me really strong and romantic. He immediately told me about his past (three failed marriages!!!) and his daughter, but didn´t push me to do the same. I just told him about my previous experiences but in very broad terms. He kept looking at me in delight and we were both quite taken. Also, the chemistry was great, and we kissed and hugged on our first date. I must say that we didn´t want anything sexual to happen too soon, and no kisses on the first date, but in the end we couldn´t help it. We wanted to know how it would feel since everything else seemed so perfect. And it felt great too, but it was more affectionate than sexual.
The second date went even better. He was a real gentleman, took me to dinner, I showed him the town, we held hands, he took selfies of us together... and he started to make plans, like meeting his teenage daughter, who was coming in a few days to visit him, etc. We knew it was early, but she was coming from abroad and he wanted us to meet. It was just the timing! When she came, he had already told her about me and she was really supportive of us being together. The four of us met in town and we had a great time. He kept saying we were like a family, his daughter loved me, and my daughter was also really happy. The two girls got on well together. Everything was perfect. Then, he invited us to spend the weekend at his place with them. As his daughter was only staying for a week, it seemed right, and we had had such a great time before...
Cont...
By this time, although we had only known each other two weeks, we were quite smitten, talking on the phone every day and texting quite romantic and passionately during the day, without it being overwhelming. He started the texts almost always. He was almost always the pursuer in a gentle way. He kept hinting at the word love, and saying he didn´t want to come on me too strong as he didn´t want to scare me off and make me run away. I kept reminding him that we hardly knew each other yet, and every time he spoke about future plans, like Christmas (he was already telling me about going to his country!), I would tell him that we would see how things went. But during that weekend, we were so elated that I told him that I loved him (I know, I did it first!!!) and he corresponded. He kept working me up so much that I finally gave up all caution and we threw ourselves completely into the relationship. He said this was meant to be, and we both let ourselves go and made all kinds of wonderful purposes, like not taking each other for granted, to communicate, etc, etc. He also introduced me to friends and neighbours and they all loved me. He seemed to care about their opinion and about how I got on with everyone. And I did fine. I also introduced him to some of my friends and he was happy and got on great with everyone.
He was very polite, kind, optimistic, generous, fun to be with, thoughtful and caring with my daughter (he said he realised that if she didn´t accept him he wouldn´t have me), but he also hinted in conversation with friends about his control- freak side! Also, we used to laugh a lot. I understood his sense of humour.
After two months, things started to change. He texted less and the calls became fewer. I began to realize he didn´t like the phone very much, so I didn´t force it and kept it short, but I noticed that sometimes he seemed to get bored. Now, many times I initiated the texts, but he always answered them. He didn´t take pictures any more. It took me a few days to realize that he was becoming distant and withdrawn. The only thing that kept getting stronger was the sex. There was great chemistry between us. But after a weeend at my place, he texted me that he had felt uncomfortable. And that he was sad about it. Some things had bothered him, like me fidgeting with his phone trying to send some pics to mine. He had previously encouraged me to take his phone to make pictures, as it was much better than mine, but this time he was bothered. He told me about a previous relationship where the woman had been very controlling, checking his messages and other things. Also, we were walking around town and he felt that I didn´t even consult him about where we were going. I was surprised by these things, but I reassured him that I understood, and that I hadn´t realised that they where bothering him. I had no bad intention but I apologised if I had caused him any ill-feeling. In turn, he said that, probably, his control-freak side hadn´t been able to handle it and that, in the future, he would try to communicate better if he felt annoyed by something.
Anyway, to finish this already long story, he has been withdrawing more and more.Last time I was a his place, from Saturday afternoon to Sunday afternoon, he was even colder, although he had been the one asking us to come. At one point, he said that he had to make not only one person happy, but two. And whenever I tried to get close to him, or hold his hand, he would release himself with any excuse. I am a sensitive person and I don´t like to beg or demand attention or affection, so I tried to go around doing my own thing and we left early in the afternoon, as he had said he wanted to see some game on TV.
Cont...
We used to meet one afternoon during the week (he would come) in my town (no sleep over), and most weekends, but I was never pushing things or demanding. Quite the contrary, he was the one wanting to meet. And I always asked him if it didn´t bother to spend four hours travelling just to meet me for a few hours, but he was always keen on coming (he has plenty of free time). I used to tell him also that I appreciated all the details he had with me. And he kept saying that he wanted to build a strong foundation for our relationship.
Anyway, the distance grew more in the last ten days. We talked again (he initiated the talking) and he said he didn´t want to be out of my life, but suggested to come only the afternoon and not meet at weekends: He feels under pressure and kind of “trapped”, and wants to take things slower. He says that things are not like before, that we don´t look as happy as before in the pictures (we haven´t taken many lately, and he hasn´t sent me any), and that as good as the sex may be, it may be better for us not to have it for the time being. I said I agreed we should go slower and get to know each other more, and to meet only one day. However, since last week´s meeting, I decided to follow your advice and giving him space. He sent me a text after our meeting saying it was good to meet. I answered and said it was also good for me. Next day he sent me a light, funny text in the morning about some sport thing (no kisses, only a smile), to which I replied in the same way. He sent a second one, in the same manner, to which I didn´t reply (I was at work and someone had to write the last one! This time it was me LOL). AND that was it, NOTHING since then (Thursday). NOTHING AT ALL. We were supposed to meet tomorrow but were not specific about it, so I have already made a doctor´s appointment. I can´t believe this is happening. I am feeling so sad. So very sad. Only three weeks ago I was his true soulmate and he adored me and now, this silence. We were so happy at one point... but now we are like strangers. Dear MOA, I appreciate your comments and thank you dearly for your time. I know it is the same old story, but it is mine... and it never happened to me like this. I send you, and all the women who are here, all my love.
By the way, this man is a virgo :-) (I saw your thread on Virgo, the Svengali of the Zodiac and found it worrying:-( )
Hi Mirror,
I wanted to return and update on my situation. I left a comment about a month ago explaining with a male friend of mine the things you talked about.. and how he was trying to discredit them. That no contact doesn't work. etc. Well, as you pointed out, he was wrong.. and it did work. To an extent.
I had stopped hearing from my DM for probably about 2 months. This was right after we got a little heavy with the flirting. I had heard from him in the middle of the two months, but only because i was frustrated and poked at him. He gave me the excuse about personal issues and going through a hard time in his life. I wished him the best and once again stopped talking to him. When the two months was over I heard back from him again. It started off slow, and I would take days to respond to his messages. Finally one day he was really trying hard to talk to me. Texts flooding my phone and messages on the computer. Finally he called. I didn't answer. After a while, he called again and I picked up. We had this very long talk about everything, and he apologized for how he acted. But he also said something that was a big red flag. That he always gets like this sometimes, and I am not the first person he's had to explain himself to for disappearing and kinda reverting into his own world without a word to anyone. Though, all people deal with problems differently, the fact that he said he has had this problems with friends before, told me that he is very much aware of the hurt this type of behavior has on his friends... yet he has not stopped doing it. I gave him the advice of explaining to friends before he does this might help a lot in the future. Some people are just more private when a lot of lift stuff is thrown at them. But it's no excuse to be disrespectful to your friends.
After a couple weeks of us attempting to get back to the level of closeness we had once been in, I started seeing more and more red flags. Finally one night I was sitting alone and really thinking hard about the entire situation. I took my "Crush" goggles off and really took a look at him. His actions, and his behavior. I came to the realization that when it comes to friendships/relationships. .etc. He is very immature. Not in the sense that he knowingly acts like a brat. Just that he has never had the type of experiences someone of his age should have had. He is in his late 20s, but he acts like a 14 year old. He doesn't seem to understand what it means to truly value the people in your life. I am in my early 30s, and it took me a great deal of emotional hard work to learn this lesson. I don't take the good people in my life for granted because it is rare. I don't think he really understands that because he takes his friends for granted a lot. Yes he cares about them.. but he never acts like it. His actions are all pretty selfish. Recalling back on how he does things he knows upsets his friends, but because its being done to make him feel better, he will always do it, knowing it will hurt a friends feelings. Again, when he told me about that.. What he was really telling me was that he was never willing to change the hurtful behavior. He just wanted his friends to accept it.
(cont)
After all this thinking.. I came to the realization that he just isn't that the level of social maturity I expected him to be at for his age. That no mater how hard I try or don't try, he will never show that he values my friendship because he isn't aware that good friendships should be valued, and good people in your life shouldn't be taken for granted. He has a lot of growing up to do, and a lot to learn about friendships, relationships, and how to work with people. Gaining this insight worked wonders for me.. as I felt liberated to figure things out. To stop expecting things he isn't mature enough to give back. But sadly.... I faulted. Alcohol was to blame. As it usually is. And I ended up texting him and we were heavily "sexting" that night. I felt bad after it was over and I sobered up enough to realize my mistake. But there was a small hint of hope in the back of my heart that maybe he would be the sweet person he used to me. Yeah no. Instead, he started acting more selfish then ever. Some bad things in my life happened and I was going through a bad time. He reach out to me to ask what was wrong, but only stayed in the conversation enough to find out it wasn't an issue related to him. As soon as he found this out.. he stopped talking to me. Over a week later he starts trying to talk to me about all these things he's buying for himself that were on sale. When I told him it would be nice to afford it too but since I was having money problems, I couldn't do that. He then did what he could to talk me into buying stuff I don't need. To "treat" myself. Call me selfish, but if I were in his shoes, and had the money to afford a $5 object for a friend who i know was going through a very hard time, I would get it for them. He just spend a butt load of money on himself. i don't ever expect people to buy me anything... but I just felt like him trying to talk me into buying something he knew i really couldn't afford, was rather rude of him. Not even doing something as nice as to offer to get it for me, spoke words. Just the offer would have been kind enough.
So I am back to being fed up more or less with this whole selfish side he's showing me. He isn't being very kind. And now I think he is even becoming a bad influence? I've been trying to gain the feeling I once had when I figured him out. However, I think I am back to square one. Trying to convince myself that all these bad, selfish, immature qualities are bad, and to see them that way and not want him in my life anymore. The NC has to start all over again... and the space. I feel silly that I have to start over, and I am rather mad at myself for taking so many steps back when I was doing so well. I gave him another chance, and he is starting to act so much worse then before.
I always guilt myself into believing I'm being a brat when I stop talking to him.. but as you wrote about above, I shouldn't worry about this. Because he sure isn't over there worried about how hurtful his actions are.. So why should I be doing the same? That's true. It's hard because that's not the type of person I am... but I felt better when I was standing up for myself. I just need to get back there again I guess.
-Keep fighting girl.
@Smiles,
"when he does TEXT me can I just ignore it or should I just mirror him?"
It's a personal choice dear - either option is available to you, choice is yours. If it were me, I wouldn't waste my time. He'd get no response.
"Why would he keep texting me if he isn't asking me to do anything?"
Because he's stringing you along as a sexual option :-( He wants to be able to pick up the phone, last minute, and invite you around for sex. He's maintaining a casual hookup situation for himself.
@Anonymous Jun 23, 3:35 PM,
"Only three weeks ago I was his true soulmate and he adored me"
Ugh, I hate to say this dear, I don't want to hurt you or burst your bubble...but when men begin to talk like that very early on - it's a red flag. Because at that point, you do not truly know one another so that talk is similar to "fantasy" talk. It's talk that may be felt at the time, but because you still do not know one another completely, it cannot be taken seriously unfortunately :-(
"We were so happy at one point... but now we are like strangers."
But in reality, you were strangers the entire time. Sure, you knew bits and pieces about one another, but you didn't know each other completely. You don't know what this man's like when he's angry, or when he's preoccupied. You don't know what it's like to be around him 24/7. And when he made a remark about his "control" issues - that was another red flag...because eventually...those surfaced with this:
"He had previously encouraged me to take his phone to make pictures, as it was much better than mine, but this time he was bothered...we were walking around town and he felt that I didn´t even consult him about where we were going."
What was really bothering him there was that YOU were in control in those moments, and not HIM. That tells you that this man is not comfortable with compromise and that's huge because compromise is necessary for a happy relationship. If you grabbed his phone to check up on him, then okay I can see him being upset. But he invited you to use his phone and when you did, it annoyed him - and you don't know if that's because maybe he had something to hide in that phone. And he also feels you need to "consult" with him about walking around town, which is ridiculous. He's a grown man, if he does or doesn't want to go somewhere, he can speak up about it. But that's not what he wants to do. Instead, he wants YOU to "consult" (ask permission, receive approval) with HIM. He wants YOU to go to HIM for permission of sorts, as if you have to clear things with him first - instead of being flexible and willing to compromise.
That's control dear. He already hinted to that once prior and he even said this after, "his control-freak side hadn´t been able to handle it." He's admittedly a control freak. Well....control freaks do NOT make for good boyfriends, husbands or lovers because they're difficult to love and care for. The way they micromanage the lives of others can make the individuals in their life absolutely miserable, as if they're living in servitude to him. That is generally NOT someone's idea of a happy, healthy relationship.
And to be quite honest, I think this disappearance of his may be a blessing in disguise dear. Because the last thing you need is to come off a 14 year stint of being single...only to become involved with a control freak. You need to be out having fun and enjoying life and meeting people...not taking orders from an insecure man that's attempting to control the world around him so that he feels more manly and better about himself. A man like that will actually make you live in a very SMALL world (his world of control). He will NOT want you to be out there meeting others and having fun and living your life. He's much rather you live under his thumb if you know what I mean.
Cont...
"this man is a virgo. I saw your thread on Virgo, the Svengali of the Zodiac and found it worrying"
Well, the control shows he's probably acting out the "perfectionist" tendency of Virgo in that manner - everything must be perfect and in it's place. And in his head, he may be beating himself up. He may be hard on himself...to make (and keep) things perfect, which can make for an abrasive personality at times. But that doesn't mean that everything about Virgo is bad. It just depends on what particular stage in life the Virgo is. If they're in a good stage of life, they'll exhibit their positive traits. If they're in a not so good stage of their life, they'll exhibit their darker traits. We all have the dark and the light within us and we release and display each at different stages in our lives.
I think what you need to do now...is ignore him and move on. If he contacts you, ignore him:
http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html
Don't respond to his contact and do your best to keep moving forward. Because each time you respond, all you'll be doing is reassuring him that you're still there, willing and waiting. And once he receives that reassurance, he'll go off to do his own thing again. The best thing to do is to not respond and make him work to get a response. If he doesn't, then you have your answer - this wasn't meant to be. If he does keep trying, don't respond until he apologizes and/or signals he wants to talk. Anything short of that gets ignored.
And in the meantime, continue meeting and dating other men and moving forward with your life. If he wants you, he knows where to find you and he'll know what needs to be done to have you back in his life. Men can take a while to realize what they've lost...1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 8 months - even a year or more later...these guys circle back.
But you don't sit and wait during that time - during that time...you continue living your life and you keep your forward momentum going, and you let him catch up to you if he chooses to do so :-)
@Keep fighting girl,
"he always gets like this sometimes, and I am not the first person he's had to explain himself to for disappearing..he said he has had this problems with friends before"
That's immaturity and the inability to properly face - and deal with - emotions that he's feeling, good or bad. Instead, much like a child, he escapes and runs away and goes into hiding until he thinks it's safe to come out again.
"He is very immature."
Exactly.
"He doesn't seem to understand what it means to truly value the people in your life."
That's because so far, he probably hasn't LOST any of those people - they've probably all let him slip back into their lives, which is keeping him cowardly about things in a sense. If he suffers a true loss of some sort, he may begin to look at things differently.
"he was really telling me was that he was never willing to change the hurtful behavior. He just wanted his friends to accept it."
Well, someday he'll have a rude awakening, when he looks around and/or needs someone, and no one is there. Because his friends will soon start getting married, developing their careers more, buying homes, shooting off in their own directions in life and settling down...and he'll be the last man standing, still immature, and alone...feeling like life is passing him by, while his friends are out there living it.
As his friends mature dear and these things start to take shape in their lives, they will no longer tolerate his antics. When they have a job to tend to and children pulling at their shirt tails...they're not going to give two friggin' craps about what stupid drama is taking place in his life...and he'll be on his own.
"I always guilt myself into believing I'm being a brat when I stop talking to him"
When someone is treating you poorly dear and taking you for granted...they don't deserve your respect and if you show it to them, they won't appreciate it, as you've already seen. They'll take it for granted that they have you - right where they want you. They'll view you as "weak" in a sense, and they'll attempt to walk all over you. Instead, you MUST stand your ground with people like this.
"I felt better when I was standing up for myself"
That's all that matters. When you feel better, you become stronger and when you become stronger, you are no longer affected by immature players and man-boys. Do what makes you feel good here :-)
Mirror my DM got married to the socialite this past weekend, now the good times should begin. He changed his profile pic on his work profile on whatsapp of their wedding photo I guess. They're on a golf course, golf cart in the back and he's holding a club in front of her so it looks like he's holding her around her waist but in actuality he's not and here's the kicker he's hiding his face completely by giving her a kiss on the cheek. When I saw that it was a gut punch so to speak but then I decided to speak to my great guy friend. And when I sent him the pic he was cracking up, I asked him why. He say first off that was a professional pic and the tackiest shit I have ever seen. Do you really believe that they are the happy perfect couple I wouldn't be so sure. First off what woman would take her wedding photo like that, your wedding photo your in a short dress and he's in full golf gear. Are you kidding me........ then the fact that he's hiding his body behind hers and deliberately hiding his face. That could be anyone behind her, it looks like the most uncomfortable shit for him and she has a ditzy smile. He said well I think these are two are farther apart than we think. She thinks that because he married her and is still around for NOW that he's saved her somehow. This is a simple girl that has never had any responsibility her whole life, everything has been done for her and people have taken care of her and she's never had to worry about anything. It is a joyous occasion so we don't want to get down on her too much but why is someone so blissfully happy in the midst of all this chaos. It must be nice to float around at a leisurely pace naming all the butterflies you come across or something . but life teaches you that if you take your eyes off the ball, just once for a half a second and you’ll pay for it.
-- Jennifer
Marriage says you found someone you trust to stand by your side to help you keep on the plates spinning or balls in the air. Not you have someone to do it all for you while you go shopping ...Marriage is one of those complex things. Two people that love each other can say “we found it really simple”. And that might be or maybe it just seems that way because love says “I’ll always be there so no matter what happens I have your back and you have mine.” So we each realize we worry a little less with someone there to do it with us. The company, camaraderie, pleasure pain … victory disappointment. You have someone else there to keep all your balls in the air or all your plates spinning. Marriage is not one person juggling and the other counts butterflies and goes shopping. She’s blissfully happy because life for her up till this point was so simple, all she had to worry about was being picked… she had no obligation vested in it till this point. I think you have to have that worry .. that fear to understand the person your married to and their worries. She thinks that he's saved her and she doesn't even really see the danger yet the reality. So you have one person not worrying and another never having to worry about anything but themselves… yeah this should end well.
Basically life just gave her a kick in the balls and she thinks she's won the prize but she hasn't he will get tired and bored with her " whatever you like" attitude. She seems the type to wrap her life around him and initially he wants that he wants a woman that doesn't outgrow him. Its a mans mission to find a woman that's strong, independent and have her ultimately think of you as a man she'll relent to. You'll be her rock, her hero, her provider without giving up her independence. He looks for needy chick because he knows its easy to have her lean on him but little does he know that this is the very thing that will turn him off and ultimately end up leaving her. Rather than be a man he'll stall her out and she'll get tired and find someone else, she'll seek to make things final with him. She's going to go from having no responsibility to double and gets no help from him.
What do you think Mirror it looks like it has nowhere to go but down especially with the way it began? He doesn't seem to be proud to say he's married, there are no pics posted of her and he looks dead and miserable. As they say the eyes and body language tell you everything you need to know. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm an evil person but karma sure kicked him in the ass and I take great pleasure to know he's miserable. Everyone tells me just be patient you'll see in the upcoming months a lot more will be happening and you wont even have to lift a finger :)
-- Jennifer
@Jennifer,
Well, I think time will tell. This will either be way too much for either one of them to handle well (since they're both selfishly oriented) and they're going to have a tough time adjusting. I'm kinda' getting the vibe that this will be one of those situations where...she'll end up stuck with the majority of responsibility of raising the child, while he goes on nights out with the guys, golfing, running around, etc. And eventually, that will annoy her...the fact that she's up for late night feedings while he's snoring, or she's at home by herself changing crappy diapers while he's out enjoying a beautiful day swinging balls at the golf course...that'll get old real quick for her. He doesn't strike me as the type of man to become a hands on dad, but who knows, maybe I'll be wrong and this child will be blessed with two very devoted parents.
I just have a feeling that much won't change for him - he'll still be selfish and self-centered and he'll still expect to do what he wants to do...and he'll look at that child as being the majority of HER responsibility, while he simply lends an assist here and there. I believe he'll be out living his life as he did previously, while she's stuck at home with a ton of responsibility that he's too immature and shallow to participate in.
But only time will tell...
When I saw the first picture all the hurt came back again like maybe they are happy and I was missing out on something but it hit me that I wasn't. I wouldn't want to get married under those pretenses knowing that he doesn't love me, it would make me feel like a charity case. Like you said mirror only time will tell and I have a strange feeling in my gut, you know when you feel like something is going to happen. My mother said I have a strange feeling that you are going to hear from him and also see him and I agree with her. I had that feeling the first time and he reappeared. Like the saying " people ignore you till they need you".
So as my male friend said wish them well, sit back and enjoy the show. It's going to be an interesting show indeed!!! I'll take his word so far, he's been pretty on point about the whole thing. :)
-- Jennifer
1 of many
For all the ladies, the ones that have been here since I joined Ms. Mirror’s online movement to empower women with our own power and self-worth, to the new ones… y’all know who you are.
Grab yourselves your favorite beverage because I have a story to tell.
My last post shared my achievement of facing my fear to go to where Scorpio worked to order construction material. I didn’t see him, and no contact came of it.
On the Friday of the following week, I was driving home from work, and who do I match glances with at an intersection? Scorpio.
When I arrived home, I saw he had text me, “hi” w/a smiley face. (Remember he said he’d delete my number on New Year’s Eve?? Yea, he didn’t.) I mirrored him. We did a couple courteous texts back and forth and then he tells me he misses my company and to keep in touch. My response> You have my number.
On the Monday of the next week, guess who texts me? Virgo. Yep! I haven’t seen either of these guys in over a year (Virgo) and year and a half (Scorpio) and they both make contact within three days.
Virgo’s text was “hi.” I ignored it.
Next day, Virgo text again, “hi again.” I ignored it again, and deleted his messages.
On the night of Virgo’s 2nd text, Scorpio text me a 2nd time. We chit-chat, he talks about how good it was with us, gets into a little sexual memories, and eventually I ask if he is single with no ties. He tells me he has a girlfriend since October – and although not explained, I believe that he lives with her. Then Scorpio says> Please don’t tell me to not call you.
I won’t lie, I was disappointed about the girlfriend. But I told him I won’ t tell him not to contact me again. I said I wanted him to be happy, it is what it is, and if he’s with her, then be with her 100%. I told him I’d like it if we could be friends.
2 of many
He said he was always my friend, and continually reminisced about how great we were together, how he misses me, how awesome he thinks I am, how strong and independent I am, and it is because of the latter that he thought I did not want a full-time man in my life. He also said he thought I had Virgo as a long distance boyfriend.
I reminded Scorpio of my telling him that I had ended it with Virgo, as well as asking to spend more time with him, asking to do more things with him, asking him about falling for him and him telling me not to, reminded him of our “love you’s,” the last time we were together.
In response, Scorpio said he didn’t listen and it was all his fault. He said he was happy where he was, but he still wanted me too.
When he asked me if he could tell me “bed-time stories,” I said no. He said> Damn you turn me on when you say no.
When I told him that I didn’t understand his behavior since he had a girlfriend, he said she needed him in different ways that I need a man. He reiterated how strong and independent I am, and said her needs made him feel like a “pillar to rely on here,” whereas I made him feel like a “real man intimately.”
The sex talk was in full-force from him, reminiscing, etc., and here is where I owe Hopeful an apology.
I didn’t understand your decision to stay friends with Bicyclist, Hopeful, knowing what you knew about him. I was ignorant, and I apologize. I now understand because I am using the same thought process as you did.
Although I initially wanted to run, I was advised to stay on the fringes of Scorpio’s behavior to observe him. To stay friends with him so that he shows and I can see who he truly is: the good and the bad, in order to break away from the fantasy and see the real man. And hopefully for me to move forward in my life without this hold he has over me.
Over the past few weeks I have done this. All of his communication has included sexting; I have stayed on the fringes but have stayed in it. The time between his texts is no longer than 3-days, and usually they go on for days at a time. I haven’t initiated a single one, and haven’t seen this volume of texts from him since we first started dating.
I have no intentions to invite him over, and I continue to remind him of his so-called girlfriend when I get the chance – but not in a mean way – just a casual response suggesting that I might consider what he is suggesting with me if he gets his so-called girlfriend out of the way. He doesn’t acknowledge those comments – breezes right over them.
It is a slippery slope I am walking, and it tears me up sometimes, but I have to agree that by staying engaged it is the only way I will see the truth of this man – and his true behavior when he is in a relationship.
3 of many
Now, during this time, Virgo is also continually texting me. His third text had an apology included, but wasn’t descript on what he was apologizing for, other than his behavior. And still, I ignore it.
The next day he texts me that he knows I want to talk or tell him to F off. I wait until early AM, and text him that I will respond when I am ready, and I’m not there yet.
I finally respond 3 days later (last Saturday) asking him why he is contacting me now and what he is apologizing about.
He was with family for the weekend. I didn’t want to interrupt that time, and told him that I’d text later. He said he wouldn’t be leaving until Monday. Since I was going to be out of town for work Monday-Friday, I told him I would contact him when I got back.
He told me that I had done everything right, he knows he screwed up, immediately called me honey, told me he’d tell his kids I said hi, and didn’t want to wait all week to communicate again.
I felt like he was being his Virgo self – ignoring what I had just said, putting his needs before my own, and putting words in my mouth.
I pushed back and told him I needed to focus on work while away and would contact him when I returned.
He said he “got it,” and missed me.
While I was away, he sent me texts every morning with ‘morning,’ to which I did not respond. He sent me a text Wednesday night saying he wanted to come see me (he is in Midwest, I am in Northeast.) I ignored that one too. (I told him I would contact him after the week, and I was not going to change my plans because of his texting daily.)
He text me again this morning, and I knew I had to finally do this. So I wrote him an email explaining my thoughts (which, without going into detail – were basically explaining how he made me feel by his actions (less than a good woman); that I didn’t feel the same for him and wasn’t willing to go there again.)
Boy, has he blown up my cell and email today. For the first time, he has said he loves me, has known he has always loved me, but was scared. When I questioned his motives for his communication now, he said his motive is to get back the best thing that has ever happened to him. When I asked him why he has contacted me after a year, he said he has been thinking about me the whole time, and finally had the guts to do something.
I have been clear with him that I don’t feel anything for him anymore, that “love can be killed,” I was numb, and words are just words. I told him the long distance sucks, I don’t trust him not to go back to his ways, and I just don’t believe him now.
He has been trying to convince me otherwise, and sadly, all I can picture is what Ms. Mirror has explained. These men, who thought they had the power to play with and discard women’s hearts so easily, at the end of the day end up in their recliners all alone regretting the choices they made, drinking themselves to sleep with only the talking heads on their tv’s as their companionship. It’s sad.
4 of 4
And these events all come at a time when I was feeling very good with myself. The books I have been reading and the time I have spent ALONE contemplating my life and working on myself has made me an even stronger woman. No longer do I feel an emptiness inside.
I had ‘thoughts’ of the following, but am just beginning to deeply understand that everything is meant to teach and strengthen our soul’s journey… we can either get in the way with our ego, or let our journey happen. And letting it happen doesn’t mean we become complacent, it is just the opposite. It means we honor our journey to the highest esteem, live life as it occurs, and do the work to observe and protect potential damage to our selfs.
So, my message to every woman on this site, if using me and my desperation as an example (as shown in my earlier posts) is that you and your journey are most important in your life. (Yes, we have to take care of our children, and put their daily needs before our own, but in doing so, are we not responding to our soul’s journey -- the most important?)
If anyone is treating you “less than,” scoop your self up and walk away. I have not fought with either of these two men; I did not try to change them, nor did I demean them or myself.
With the help of Ms. Mirror and the women on this site, I have carried myself away from these men sometimes as a mother carries her child wrapped up in a loving embrace with a comforting blanket, hidden myself away in my home, gave myself time to breath, and went thru the motions of life while licking my broken hearted wounds. I have also ventured out slowly, beginning to live life again with an open heart and hope forward.
And see what has happened? Both of these men are now – at the same time – asking me to stay in their lives. And I make the point – at the same time – because I feel I am being tested. I am not clear on what the test is or what could be achieved from it, but with the work I was doing I know it is a test.
(Virgo has just left me two voicemails.)
And I’ll tell you all one more thing – why I know this is a test. Days before Scorpio and Virgo appeared, I had a discussion with myself. I realized how there has always been two men occupying my heart. Even though I would be with one, I realized there has always been one other man I would think about just a smidge. I never physically cheated on a man I was with, but did become friends and maybe kept a secret little crush on one or another man at different points in my life. What I realized during this thought process was that these “secret crushes” kept me from committing 100% to a man. And the reason I was not committed 100% is because I KNEW, deep down inside, that the man I was with, was not THE man for me. But I convinced myself that I, he and we were ok. I went through the motions, and did, did, did to make everyone happy, while I lost my soul.
So! Just days before Scorpio and Virgo contacted me I said to myself, “For the next relationship I am in with a man, I want to be in 100%. If I am not in 100%, then I am not going to be in at all.” And I also said, “The man I want to be 100% in with is Scorpio, and not allow any other man – even Virgo! – to infiltrate it.”
Yep! I said it, and look what happened a few days later.
I don’t know what is going to happen ladies. I am sure some of you are shaking your heads thinking, “She’s nuts. Scorpio is with a so-called girlfriend and is only sexting her – and he shows not an inkling of action towards changing his life. Virgo is talking love and wanting to take action to show her his intentions.”
As Ram Dass says, all there is, is Here and Now. Well, it is here, and now, and I am not going to “do” anything except continue to observe and take care of my self.
I hope you all do the same for your selfs. (hugs)
Thank you Ms. Mirror!
@The Ladies,
A fantastic experiment gals, I strongly suggest you take 3 minutes to watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpaOjMXyJGk#t=147
In it, a forensic sketch artist asks women behind a curtain to describe themselves to him and then he creates a sketch from their description.
Next, strangers meet the women and then he ask them to describe the woman they saw to him and he sketches another piece from the strangers descriptions of the same women.
Lastly, he compares the two and permits the women to see the vast difference in the sketches - from how THEY perceive themselves versus how strangers perceived them.
A fascinating experiment on self-perception...
@Gem50 - !!!!!
Well, fascinating developments. I absolutely hear you about not being 100% with a man. For me, I have SETTLED for something, for someone who I know is not even 90% what I want because of the need for companionship, sex, affection, for not being alone. You're a very brave and strong lady, and you're absolutely right!
An update on me. Have not spoken a word to my co-worker, ex-BFF disappearing man, since Dec. 20. I did send him a text in April when there was a shooting at his gym, I was genuinely concerned that he could be hurt, and while that was a roller-coaster of emotion I still feel good about my values/humanity for checking in with him that time.
We've had a change of management at work, and with it a new management style, so FAR fewer meetings. But we've sat in the same room, feet from each other, with no words. Right now, I've been assigned to to work on a project with him for the first time in a year, and he is not speaking to me. He's not even consistently responding to purely work-related email.
I'll admit, part of me is really stung by this. Why is HE not speaking to ME? He broke my heart.
And in a way it's a blow to my self-esteem - he hasn't been sitting and pining for me, isn't using this as an opportunity to talk to me. He's not going to text or call to tell me that he made a mistake, misses me. He's not going to walk into my office and tell me I'm important to him, that he screwed up, etc. Apparently I'm just a piece of trash that he discarded.
But as difficult as this is, luckily it's at a time when I've been dating someone new. I met this guy on a dating site, and he is so smart, funny, and charming. He texts and calls, and is a great mix of respectful and intense - he's courteous, but he's definitely in pursuit. I love it. I don't take him or this all that seriously right now, just having fun with it, but it's such a relief. In a way, I had really doubted that there was anyone else out there for me, thought that DM was my "soul mate." This other guy is proof that there are other smart, funny, sarcastic men out there who appreciate me. It gives me hope that I can have someone that I can love 100%
I'm not holding out hope that DM will be that man, though. I feel like I'm in the final stages of grieving for him.
@Gemini50
Bravo, my sister, for handling yourself so well. The thought that came to my mind when I read your story (and previous posts) was this: all men recognize a good woman. A good woman is one who knows her worth and makes herself happy and balanced, and knows when and how to draw the line. All men want to be with a good woman. However - not all men turn into good men just because they meet a good woman. It's up to you, Gem, and up to me and up to all of our sisters out here, to conduct the border patrol & quality control when it comes to relationships - any relationship. If you were looking for some proof that you really are a good woman (which, by the way, we already knew :-)), worthy of a guy's time and affection, then here is your proof - Virgo and Scorpio have both rotated back to you. Just as Mirror predicted. But in my view the only question that will need confirmation is the following: are these guys the good men that are worthy of a good woman like you, or are they playing the same old songs on their little old fiddles in the hopes that a good but misguided woman will stoop low to rescue them from their substandard behavior? Mirror warns that self-awareness in men is created not by giving them attention, or explaining them 'how-to', but rather by the lack of attention. It seems to me that the reserved 'observation' plan is a good one!
Hello again!
Bloody DM is back... To recap: he acted weird and distant, reappared with some family tragedy to justify his silence, disappeared again for a week.
When afterwards, he then texted, it seems he was expecting everything would be normal and he didn't get why I ignored him (hum, hum, narcissic?).
He therefore chased wondering why I was silent, I finally replied in a distant and cold manner just stating I had been busy.
He completely went off the radar. It appears he got upset to have been given the cold shoulder when he least expected it.
Now a month later he is back with some message explaining he had been travelling for a month bla bla bla.
I think he is trying to turn the tables around, as if he didn't contact me because he was busy instead of being irritated when ignored.
Will leave him for now, I think he isn't what I need in my life.
But.. ladies, they do always come back... Mirror is so right!!!!
Like fish in a barrel ladies...circling round and round and round, expecting a way out, but only going in circles LOL. They all come back. And the one's who don't, be thankful they don't.
@Damnblokes - he'll be back too - again. Family tragedy, month long travels..umm, okay. Next it'll be an alien abduction LOL ;-)
@ Ms. Mirror, It was amazing how the camera in the Dove sketch piece was able to capture these women's thoughts and emotions... it was beautiful.
@ Mltn, Good for you girl! So happy you are seeing what appears may be a good man. YAY!
@ Anonymous, You are so right. It is up to us. I don't know the answer to your question; only time will tell ;-)
Believe in yourselves ladies -- believe in your power. And when you forget, listen to Lee Brice's song: The Power of a Woman.
"Only three weeks ago I was his true soulmate and he adored me" (the lady earlier with the disappeared Virgo...:-)
Hello Mirror, thank you for your answer. It has been a few days now since then and I have been reflecting a lot about the points you make in your message, especially on the issue of control. I have also been reading more of your articles and many of the ladies' testimonies. Like many women before have said, I wish I had read them before... but it is never too late. I also believe everything happens for a reason and that I had to learn so many things... and this is where I am now.
With regards to your answer, I must tell you that when he made the remark about him being a control freak, in the middle of a light conversation with other people, I did store it in my mind and kept nagging at me a bit. But to be honest, I hadn´t really given it much thought and I hadn´t really noticed it by then. After this week of reflection (no contact from him at all and nothing from me either), I have realised many things... for example, that most of the times we did the things HE wanted to do. I was just happy to go along... I was enjoying it. And when he said, very early on, that he would move to my city (he is two hours away), and I told him that I thought that was an important decision that needed careful thought, because we didn´t know how things would go between us, he didn´t like it, and he did remark upon it later on in a kind of ironical manner. I am seeing things in such a different light now...
I no longer know if I would like to have him back (even if he returned), as I realise, like you said, that I hardly know him. Even if he returned, it would never be like before. My feelings about the whole thing are changing day by day. I would have to really take my time to know him, as I don´t trust him anymore. Now I understand about the fantasy talk! And with him (or with any man!), I would take things really slowly. That I know now for sure. Of course I have had my ups and downs this week, with moments when I felt that "emptiness", but I have kept myself busy with friends, daughter and activities, and have been quite ok. I haven´t even cried! LOL
I have also kept reading and getting stronger thanks to all the contributions made by women in this forum and your wise and caring replies. Thanks again, Mirror. Love to you and the ladies :-)
European lady
Just two hours after I wrote the above post, he sends me a text saying he won´t be able to meet this afternoon, as he couldn´t find a dogsitter (he lives two hours away), and asking if it would be ok to meet next week for a nice birthday meal!! He just begins the text with a Hi, there, hope you are ok! No hint of apologies or "let´s talk".
Now, we hadn´t made specific plans. This was his idea, about three weeks ago, when he said it would be better not to meet at weekends and keep seeing each other one afternoon a week (no sleep over, non sex at all, to which I said that was ok, I don´t mind seeing each other less, but I didn´t say anything about not communicating). But then, since he didn´t maintain communication going, I cancelled last Wednesday because I had a doctor´s appointment. He said ok, let´s make it another day. I said I would check agenda, I am quite busy (he knows it is true), I said perhaps Friday, and he said, Yeah, you tell me, keep in touch, You too, I answered. Since then, a week has gone by with absolutely nothing from any of us, and now he sends me this message. The idea of inviting me to a nice birthday meal in a fancy restaurant was suggested by him four weeks ago. It was nice, though, that he remembered my birthday! I haven´t replied so far. I remember Mirror suggested "no contact" unless he apologised or asked to talk. I don´t know what to do. I feel it is not polite nor kind to not reply, since he has always replied to me almost inmediately (he just stopped communicating). On the other hand, I feel this is short of what I would like him to do, which is to open up and explain himself. Please, any opinions would be welcome. Thank you! :-)
@Anonymous Jul 2, 11:44 AM,
"I feel it is not polite nor kind to not reply"
Don't you think that maybe being too nice and too accommodating and too understanding is the reason he feels it's okay to constantly do this to you? When people are too nice...others begin taking them for granted. It's human nature.
"I don´t know what to do"
You need to think about whether or not this man and this situation can ever really truly make you happy. Instead of banging your head against the wall trying to attempt ways to change things, which I never really advocate women to do, it makes much more sense to sit down with yourself and have an honest talk with yourself.
The questions you need to explore are:
1) Is this man capable of fulfilling my needs?
2) Is this situation really all that enjoyable?
3) Does this arrangement with him make me happy, or does it make me anxious and worried all the time?
4) Can I go on in a relationship like this for months, even years?
If the answer to the questions above is a resounding "no" - then there's your answer dear...it's time to either:
1) Remove yourself from it (to free you up to find someone who can make you happy and fulfill your needs).
2) Accept it as casual dating that will occur sporadically only (and begin dating other men).
If the answer to those 4 questions above is a resounding "yes" - then you accept the way it is and carry on as things are.
You can't change him dear. You can't control him or the speed of this relationship or whether or not he mans up and steps up to the plate...all of that is out of your control. Nothing you do will change that. As a result, you're left with the reality of the situation. And it appears that the current reality is that this is simply not making you happy, it's causing you anxiety, and wondering and worrying about what steps to take next...to changes things - but the thing is, none of that effort on your part will change anything - if HE doesn't WANT things to change as well. Which, once again, brings you right back to the reality that you either accept things as they are, look at this as casual dating only and begin dating other men in between the times he can see you....or you accept that this situation is never going to make you happy and fulfill your needs and you move on as a result.
That's really all that you can do dear.
"I feel this is short of what I would like him to do, which is to open up and explain himself"
If that's what you wish for here, then he needs compelled to open up and explain himself. And the only thing that might make that happen - is if he doesn't hear from you and you signal that this is not acceptable treatment. If you keep accommodating him and worrying more about him and what he thinks and feels than you worry about yourself and what you think and feel - he'll keep doing this - because you permit him to.
If you keep being nice to him when he's treating you poorly - you're signaling to him that it's okay to treat you poorly - and that no matter what he does - you'll always be there, being nice, being accommodating and being understanding.
Thank you for your very insightful reply. You have helped me see things more clearly (I think I have some work to do here... :-)) . And you are right, this situation doesn´t feel good for me. So, I am going to take care of myself, I am not going to contact him and I am going to move on. I will take this as a learning experience. Thanks again.
@Gemini 50
I have just finished reading your update - wow, what interesting developments! I am speechless although Mirror has somehow predicted this. What is certain is that you have a different position in the situation now, you are in control so you are free to do what you want. And the men do feel it. The situation with Scorpio is a little bit tricky in my opinion, but I am sure that you have become much stronger than you were before, so actually a new woman is communicating with him now, a woman who he can´t be sure he knows well and so she must be a challenge for him I think. I wish you wisdom and also good luck in whatever you´ll decide to do. (-:
@ Mirror, your teaching has definitely brought its reward in Gemini´s case. (-:
A nice weekend to all,
HopefulWithMen
Dear MOA,
I have read most of your articles over the last 6 months and they have really changed how I think about my role in relationships, but there is one question I would like to ask. How are women meant to behave? Are you asking that we remove our 'brains' with men in order to keep them? when are we ever meant to show a man we are vulnerable? I am a woman that is totally in touch with her emotions and meet men who tell me about there's too, so that seems to give me a green light to tell them about my thoughts/worries/insecurities. So I have thought it is OK to express my thoughts and fears with them as they have with me.
My situation was I dated man who came on strong. I had known him before and he had split from his ex a year previously. A Taurus man who swept me off my feet but 3 months in says he is not over his ex. I have spent almost 9 months after him telling me this rarely contacting him unless he does me and keeping my distance but I have now given up due to what you have written on your site. I know that Taurus men as slow, but as a Gemini I have to cut my losses and not move on, but simply give up with dating generally. No amount of relationships should cause you this much pain unless it is someone you have given birth to.
I feel so angry that I can't tell him how devastated I was to believe him when he said he loved me/wanted a future with me/that I was unique/cultural blah blah blah that it was just BS. And we did not sleep with each other for at least 6 weeks because I wanted to be sure etc etc. But when we recently met all he would tell me was his ex had met someone else and that he couldn't be in a relationship. I get what that means now.
But he also said he needed time to get over her. But I just feel rejected and ANGRY that I can't tell him HOW I FEEL? That I miss him? That he has hurt me? No I have to sit here and try to find answers from sites like yours because I am really hurting.
I don't understand this. What are women supposed to do? I don't want him to change, but to ACKNOWLEDGE the pain he has CAUSED ME by his lies.
I am doing the no contact but everyday hurts. It does NOT get any easier for me, just leaves a lot of unanswered questions and the knowledge that I will not be able to believe any words that comes out of a man's mouth hereon in leading me to live a life of NO TRUST.
How do we do that? Because I know you say it's their actions, I will still be anxious seeing if what they say is true in time.
Could it be that rather that some men aren't good enough for lifelong relationship but its also true for some women like me who can't either? That we are simply too fragile in an emotional setting? All other parts of my life are successful and it baffles my female friends that all my intimate adult relationships fail.
I have been in therapy all my life, but none of them have provided the answers for me that you have, so far, so thanks for that.
I would rather accept that at 47 my dating days are over and if I can learn to accept that slowly it might be a better outcome than playing these emotional games to get a 'man.'
Thanks, and yours in hurting.
@Anonymous Jul 3,9:17 AM,
"What do you think women who prematurely have sex do in order for them not to lose interest"
I think it's difficult to bounce back from this situation due to the fact that once this happens - the "mystery" is gone and the challenge was short lived and may be viewed as a disappointment of sorts in men's eyes (I've heard them say this, "It was too easy.")
So the best I could suggest in this situation is to catch him off guard and do a complete 360 on him - by pulling way back and not being available to him all the time and not appearing too eager or being too accommodating to him (because that's how they expect women to act after having sex with them).
If you confuse him and create "uncertainty" around the situation for him (i.e. don't act as he secretly expects you to, like many women do) - you get him focused on you again. You get him mulling over why things aren't going as he'd expected. It's a scientific fact that "uncertainty" creates romantic attraction, so leaving him uncertain about the situation is probably the most effective way to keep his attention and interest piqued.
If men can start to predict the actions of a woman, many tend to get bored with that and then they slap you with the "all women are the same" label. So generally speaking, you need to make him see that you're NOT the same as the rest - and that involves the exact opposite actions of what you'd probably normally think you should do :-)
@Yours in Hurting,
"How are women meant to behave? Are you asking that we remove our 'brains' with men in order to keep them?"
Actually, I'm advocating the exact opposite - I'm advocating that women not let their emotions drive them but instead, USE THEIR BRAINS when dating - use logic and common sense - instead of gauging everything solely on emotions.
"when are we ever meant to show a man we are vulnerable?"
Once he's proved himself to you as a genuinely interested man that's willing to enter into a committed relationship. In order to safely be vulnerable with someone, you have to be able to trust them with your emotions and feelings when doing so. And in order for you to trust them with something so sacred, they have to earn that, they have to prove they can be responsible with something so sacred.
And the best way to do that, is for them to show you they can remain consistent (not irresponsible), act gentlemanly (not ignorantly), behave maturely (not selfishly), prove they are willing to fulfill your needs (treat you special), show that they take your thoughts into consideration (think of you when making decisions), keep the momentum moving forward (not stalling, disappearing, etc.), prove they are willing to move at your pace (not fast-track you into the bedroom), and show that they're leading things towards a commitment (instead of just casually dating you sporadically from time to time).
Once a man has proved himself to you like that, you can slowly begin to trust him with your feelings.
But if he's selfish, irresponsible, inconsistent, disappears, dates you casually, doesn't treat you special, doesn't move the relationship forward, lets the momentum drop and pushes aggressively for sex - he cannot be trust to handle your feelings and emotions maturely and responsibly then,
"that seems to give me a green light to tell them about my thoughts/worries/insecurities"
Here's the thing dear....do you have a good time when someone dumps negativity into the situation? Because worry and insecurity are negative emotions - not positive ones. And when men are hit with a slew of negative emotions from a woman, they begin to feel like the relationship is lots of WORK. They begin to feel like your therapist, not your date. The only emotions that arouses in THEM are negative ones - and they walk away from each date feeling drained and depleted and they also begin to feel like the woman's entire happiness will rest solely on THEIR shoulders (because she's unloading her negative emotions onto them).
Sharing positive emotions like happiness, joy, laughter, elation, etc. are enjoyable - but sharing and displaying worry, anxiety and insecurity are not enjoyable to others and will only cause them to withdraw. If you arouse feelings of negativity in someone, they won't want to be around that.
"3 months in says he is not over his ex...I have spent almost 9 months after him telling me this"
You have to know when to walk away dear. And when someone tells you their not over their ex - you don't stick around and try harder - that's a lose lose situation for you. Instead, you accept the truth and you gracefully move on.
Cont...
"No amount of relationships should cause you this much pain"
If you know when to walk away and you don't stick around for the pain - this doesn't happen dear.
"I feel so angry that I can't tell him how devastated I was to believe him"
That's the human ego that demands that dear - but you, yourself - you don't really need that and deep down, you know that absolutely no good would come of it and that it would only cause more damage.
"all he would tell me was his ex had met someone else and that he couldn't be in a relationship"
And that's when you walk away - no, scratch that - that's when you RUN away.
"he also said he needed time to get over her"
That's fine - but there's no reason for you to stick around during that time, waiting. Instead, you say, "I completely understand. And if that ever changes, feel free to ring me and if I'm still available, we'll take it from there."
"I just feel rejected and ANGRY that I can't tell him HOW I FEEL?"
What's that going to change? It certainly won't draw him closer to you and it certainly won't make him think fondly of you if he sees you come unglued emotionally. But if you walk away gracefully, holding your head high, with pride and dignity...he may someday look back on that and think he had you all wrong (because you didn't unload on him emotionally like many other women do).
"I have to sit here and try to find answers from sites like yours because I am really hurting."
What I'd suggest you do instead dear...is learn to develop the skills to know when to walk away, to protect yourself. If you don't protect yourself from getting hurt, then who will? If you leave that responsibility up to others, you'll never be in control of your own happiness.
"What are women supposed to do?"
Live their lives with confidence, independence and fulfillment - and NOT make that the sole responsibility of a man to provide FOR them. If you live a fulfilled life on your own independently, you don't experience such a devastating void when someone steps out of it.
For example, if you have friends, family, work, hobbies, pets and whatever else makes you happy in your life - if say, 70% of your happiness in life is derived from within, then the 30% that comes from "without" (lack), doesn't have such a devastating effect.
But if you have no friends, no pets, no hobbies, no work friends or relations - and your life is relatively empty - then you need 100% of your happiness to come from another individual (it stems from without instead of within). And when that individual is gone, it's complete and total devastation.
"I will not be able to believe any words that comes out of a man's mouth hereon in leading me to live a life of NO TRUST."
The reality in life dear is that you cannot issue trust to ANYONE in life, without them earning it and proving themselves worthy of it FIRST. Trust is not given, it is earned. And when a man tells you he's not over his ex and he isn't ready for a relationship...he's giving you absolutely no reason to trust him. As a matter of fact, he's WARNING you that he's going to bail.
Cont...
You only trust those that prove their worthy of it.
"I will still be anxious seeing if what they say is true in time"
Then you need to develop coping skills to properly deal with and release that anxiety dear. We all have anxiety, it's a human condition, but some have developed the skills to deal with it in a healthy manner - and some have not.
The answer won't come from another human being dear - it comes from WITHIN YOU. And once you develop the coping skills to properly deal with the anxiety that life hands all of us...it becomes a lot easier to manage it effectively so that it doesn't consume you and become a condition in and of itself like obsession.
"Could it be that rather that some men aren't good enough for lifelong relationship but its also true for some women like me who can't either?"
I think when people meet the RIGHT person, not just any person but the RIGHT one - it makes all the difference in the world. And when men are inconsistent, unreliable, untrustworthy, hung on exes, not ready for a relationship - whatever red flags may be waving - you do NOT proceed forward into danger. You instead accept the reality of the situation, and free yourself from it to make room for the right one to come into your life. The more time you waste with foolish men, the less room/time you have for the RIGHT one.
"All other parts of my life are successful and it baffles my female friends that all my intimate adult relationships fail."
You know why that is? It's because of the tools you're using to make decisions in each situation. When you're at work - you use the tool of logic and common sense. But when you're in relationships - you're throwing logic and common sense out the window and instead, you're using your emotions to base your decisions on.
Picture it like this dear. If you were at work and someone said to you, "You know, this employee seems great, but they told me they are still not over their kleptomania disorder (inability to stop stealing things)." Would you let them stay on in employment and be in charge of the petty cash box?
No, you would not. A red flag would immediately sound off in your mind and you would now be considering letting that employee go. Not because they're a bad person, but because they're clearly not the RIGHT person for the job of managing petty cash in the business. And you're able to make that decision because you're not using emotions to make it - you're using your brain - you're using logic and common sense to make that decision.
Yet, when a man flat out says to you, "I'm not over my ex and I'm not ready for a relationship" - you keep him employed as potential "boyfriend" material. Why? Because you based your decision solely on your emotions and you did not use logic and common sense to make it.
Cont...
So you see, when you as me this, "Are you asking that we remove our 'brains' with men in order to keep them?" - the answer is no - I'm asking you to USE your brain to make decisions about men and disregard your emotions because they'll fog things for you. The old saying "Love is blind" didn't come from nowhere ya' know? We've all been there, we've all made decisions emotionally and most people can attest to the fact that when they did - it generally did not work out as they had planned.
"I would rather accept that at 47 my dating days are over and if I can learn to accept that slowly it might be a better outcome than playing these emotional games to get a 'man.'"
I'm not advocating playing emotional games dear. I'm actually advocating that women use their heads, use logic and common sense, in order to protect themselves, make men proves themselves and to ferret out the idiots who only waste your time from the genuinely interested men that are worthy of it. And in order to do that, you have to observe, take note of someone's actions and reactions, asses them properly and then proceed accordingly - and yes - that involves time and sometimes, it even involves tests of sorts.
But in the end, it keeps the losers and users out of your life and filters through only the decent men who are serious and genuinely interested. Because again, if you do not have tactics in place to protect yourself from others that have bad intentions, then who will?
It's a savage world we live in dear - I don't like it anymore than you do and let me tell you, I have been tested emotionally in ways you cannot imagine...yet here I am, still standing, still moving forward, happy and living my life....and the same is possible for you and other women out there as well dear :-)
The hardest part is accepting the responsibility we all play in LETTING these things happen to us. I stuck around in a relationship with a guy for 2 years that showed red flags within the first 6 weeks and you know what? He ended up cheating on me. Had I left six weeks in, when those red flags first appeared - that NEVER would've happened to me.
I got hurt - because I walked right into it - eyes wide SHUT. And that was no one's fault but my own dear _ I had the power to spare myself of that, and I willingly chose not to use it and continue forward in the face of warnings and danger signs everywhere. And that wasn't his fault, it was mine. The signs were all there - it was MY CHOICE to ignore them.
wish I could like this post a thousand times Mirror-wow... that is the truth put so eloquently -you are an amazing smart woman and I thank you for your contribution to the world of womanhood-women helping other women become the best that they can be in every aspect of their lives not just in the dating world and that starts with valuing yourself as a woman, knowing your worth and never settling for worse. I made a promise to myself that I would rather be alone than be used and abused by a "man" -not worth it just so I can say that im in a relationship and when you have that mindset and stop caring so much about finding and keeping a man it reflects in your attitude and how men ultimately treat you and value you as a woman.
Hi MOA,
I really need your help with a taurus guy who seems to be pulling "mini" disappearing acts on me . We met in a chat room and started chatting daily via email first, then Skype.
I enjoy talking with him because he is respectful and seems to have a good head on his shoulders. We've had some disagreements in the past but he's been prompt to apologize and often tells me to let him know if he says or does something that annoys me.
At times, I feel like he takes my thoughts in consideration and wants to move things forward - For instance he admitted to me after 2 months of daily correspondance / chats" that he had weight issues. I told him that I didn't care as long as he wasn't 500 lbs but healthy eating habits and regular exercise were things that mattered to me. He started a diet and started exercising daily soon after (or so he says). He told me he cared about me (I think he was as surprised as I was by this confession but then again, I've never met the man so I take this with a grain of salt)
But sometimes I feel like this virtual thing is getting nowehere especially when he disappear for 2-3 days and reappear as if nothing had happened. The first time he did that I was upset and let him know. He didn't seem to understand so I disappeared for 2 weeks to make my point. That was 6 weeks ago. Now he's doing the same thing again. I haven't heard from him in 3 days and I wonder what should be my response when he comes back?
I once asked him when he would come see me (we live in different countries), he told me he didn't know yet because he didn't trust people easily.. which made me wonder how much do you have to trust someone to book a flight+hotel room so you can meet them and see if there's a potential for a relationship?
I am a little confused by all this and would greatly appreciate your feedback.
@Anonymous Jul 11, 12:16 PM,
"pulling "mini" disappearing acts...asked him when he would come see me (we live in different countries), he told me he didn't know yet because he didn't trust people easily...I haven't heard from him in 3 days and I wonder what should be my response when he comes back?"
Honey, I really hate to burst your bubble here...but did you ever see a show on MTV called "Catfish:"
http://www.mtv.com/shows/catfish/
It's about people faking who they are online and then stringing an individual along for months, sometimes even years, with a fake persona. And if you watch that show, the signs are ALWAYS all the same:
1) Lot's of emotional talk.
2) Strange disappearances from time to time (this season's finale - the person disappeared for a year then resurfaced suddenly).
3) A refusal to video chat - or a ton of excuses why they can't (don't know if you're using Skype video or just chat)
3) A refusal to meet - that usually amounts to a ton of excuses as to why they can't.
I swear, every single episode, when they find out the individual is NOT who they claim to be...follows that exact script above. And because I'm seeing your situation pretty much follow that similar pattern, my guess is that this person is either not who they claim to be, or they're not being entirely honest with you.
When someone acts like they have something to hide...nine times out of ten, it's because they are usually hiding something, ya' know? Remember, this is a complete and total stranger. You've never met, you have no idea if anything you've been told is the truth, this individual could be married, could be living with someone, could be a female, could be a con-artist...you really don't know.
And when someone says something like this, "he doesn't trust people easily" - and then turns around and does things like this, "pulling "mini" disappearing acts"..."he disappears for 2-3 days"..."asked him when he would come see me...told me he didn't know yet" - that's a big red flag.
It's an individual stating they don't trust others - but then turning around and acting incredibly shady and distrustful themselves. It's cause for concern.
"I wonder what should be my response when he comes back?"
If I were you dear - I would INSIST upon a video chat if you have not had one yet and insist on proof of this individuals identity (i.e. driver's license, passport photo ID with name). I would also do as they do on Catfish...I'd search to see if the photo's of the individual are online anywhere else under someone else's name, I'd search database records and I'd scour Google, Facebook and Twitter. Lastly, I'd do a reverse search on his telephone number - and see whose name comes up.
I would not proceed one step further until you at least confirm the true identify of this person, find out whether or not they're married and find out whether or not what they've told you can be proved true (through Google, Facebook and Twitter).
I'd also consider searching these international search engines if the country he's in is listed here:
http://searchengineland.com/10-alternate-search-engines-to-look-at-internationally-63782
http://www.freeality.com/international_search_engines.htm
And I'd try services like this to perform a reverse search on international telephone numbers:
http://www.searchpeopledirectory.com/international-reverse-phone/
Better to be safe than sorry dear - and waste possibly years, only to find out it was a scam from day one :-(
Thanks for the reality check MOA!
- Catfish Victim
Hi Mirror, I would love your take on my situation. I was seeing this guy for about 2 months. Sadly I was the one who initiated and asked him out first. He showed interest though and put in effort. However after a month or so I started saying we should be seeing each other more to which he said he can't help it since he lives an hour or so away and only came into my city once in 2 weeks. I have to admit I was being a tad bit needy by saying these things (even though I said it very calmly with no emotion). I also asked how he felt about me and where he saw it going and he said he didn't know yet (he does seem like a good/genuine guy though). Then he told me he is going off travelling for a few weeks and I showed my clear unhappiness about it. To me it felt like if he really liked me he would not want to go off on a long holiday without me. After this last 'display' (again, I was very calm and unemotional), I didn't hear from him and it's been 3 weeks.
What I want to know is was I being unreasonable to ask for what I was asking? Or was I right in gauging his interest and if he really was interested, he would want to see me more..?
I am back to posting on of my favorite blogs! This place has changed my life. I have learned so much from each and one of your experiences and of course from MOA herself. Well I have been talking to this guy for about 2 years. Nothing has happened between us but it is so interesting to practice what we learn on here and to see it work.
Well we talked at first and I was like wow this guy is really into me so I started to get comfortable and began initiating! Big no no as you all have learned on here. I became desperate waiting by my phone, by my messenger. My happiness depended on this idiot and whether or not he messaged me or not. I would wait and wait seeing him online on Facebook, MSN etc. I would eventually give in and message him. Yuck I hate to remember how I felt and must have looked to him. Anyways I gave up the power I had over him and started to slowly lose him. He went from the guy who was crazy about how hot I was so to sorry busy gotta run. Well I decided to practice what I learned on here a few months ago. During December he messaged me hey pretty girl. I did not respond. I stayed offline and that was it. Well I looked again online and noticed he deleted his Facebook account. I was bummed and annoyed with myself that I didn't respond. I was mad at him and didn't want to because you guessed it, he disappeared that's why. Anyways about a week ago he send me a friend request. I guess he had to recreate his account since he deleted not inactivated his account. I accepted him and left it at that. In the past few months I thought about him a lot I admit but didn't do much. Maybe sent him an article but nothing more. A day after I accepted him he starts to like my pics. Oh boy here we go again. He then said Hello and when I did not respond he writes me are you ignoring me? He probably saw on FB chat that I had seen the hello because it tells you if the person opens it or not. Well I waited and said Hi back. I wanted to do what MOA keeps telling us to act non nonchalant and that we have been busy with our lives - basically not act like the psycho crazy woman who has been waiting around. Conversation was nice and pleasant same as always "You still look gorgeous". The next part was funny he asked if I was engaged LOL. I gave him a hard time and then eventually said no and won't unless he is the right person not worth it. I could feel how relieved he was to find this out and then went on to say are guys blind etc. etc. After a while I kind of was getting tired so luckily he had to go - next time I should say I have to go and leave the conversation first. I then went on vacation and he liked my photos. He is extremely busy now I guess so this is his way of showing me he is around.
I hope you think I did the right thing MOA by not saying where the hell have you been for the past few months. I really wanted to say "Yes I am ignoring you :)" when he asked if I was. I didn't ask for an apology or anything because we are not serious or dating so he doesn't owe me anything. I did kind of want to say during our next conversation "By the way you disappeared all this time why did you come back and add me"?
this is the most awesome dating advice i have ever read, thank you!
@Anonymous Jul 13, 11:06 AM,
"was I being unreasonable to ask for what I was asking"
Yes and no. It was unreasonable because of the very early stage the relationship was in, and the fact that he did not ask you for a commitment yet (the man should ALWAYS be the one asking). It wasn't unreasonable in the end however, because it identified the man as "half interested" which is a good thing.
"Or was I right in gauging his interest and if he really was interested, he would want to see me more?"
Here's the thing dear - let's back way up here and start from scratch. I'll share with you what jumps out at me (and how this could've all been somewhat predicted to an extent) in an effort to help you, not hurt you - so don't take offense, okay?
"I was the one who initiated and asked him out first"
When you do that dear, when you as a woman step into the masculine lead role...this is almost always the end result:
"I was seeing this guy for about 2 months"
If it lives to the age of 3 months, that's about the max life a situation that starts off like that has. Why? Because this quickly happens:
"I started saying we should be seeing each other more...I was being a tad bit needy...I also asked how he felt about me and where he saw it going... I showed my clear unhappiness about it."
And why does that happen to women in these situations?
Because you cannot tell if this man really likes you or not. And you cannot tell if he really likes you or not because - YOU are in the lead role. YOU are in the masculine role (his gender role), and YOU are the one leading the relationship and keeping it alive - not him. And when you take over the man's lead role, you force him into the female role, which is one of submission. Man leads, woman submits. And when a man is in a position to submit to a woman's lead, it doesn't rest well with them because it doesn't feel natural to them.
I'm not telling you to submit and be a doormat. I'm simply saying that when things play out in their natural roles assigned by Mother Nature - they feel more "natural" to people. It's the sole reason I do not advocate women pursuing men on this site. Because if you do that, the guy WILL sleep with you. But in about 3 months...he'll start to realize he really isn't comfortable with what's taking place, he'll start to feel pressured to submit to your lead, it will feel unnatural to him and he'll bolt.
A man's role as Mother Nature sees it is leader, hunter. A woman's role as given by Mother Nature is that of gatherer, nester. Regardless of what society tells us is okay nowadays, the simple fact remains that while our society has changed dramatically...our DNA has NOT. These gender roles are DEEPLY ingrained in every single one of us still - to this day. Deny that as a woman and suffer the inevitable consequences. Accept it - and find dating much more rewarding.
(As an aside, a woman commented here recently that a male attorney she's dating advised her that he does not date female attorneys because they're too masculine, too "take charge," and that he prefers feminine women instead because that's what attracts him to them in the first place - so remember the attorney story LOL ;-)
Cont...
Additionally, when women take the lead, insecurity sets in. And the reason this happens is because deep down inside, the woman knows she's leading the charge, she's in unfamiliar territory, she has nothing to gauge the man's interest off of and in the end, it leaves her anxious and sensing something is "off" - and the natural reaction to that is to start making demands and poking around the mans emotions for the answers - which just about always backfires :-(
If you're interested in a man, all it takes to give him a green light is a smile, some eye contact and a little conversation. At the very most, giving him your number and inviting him to call. That's it - nothing else needs to happen.
If the man is interested, he'll step up and take the lead. He'll ask you out, he'll come to you for the date, he'll take you on a formal first date (i.e. dinner out, not his sofa) and he'll call regularly.
If the man doesn't step up and/or does step up and then shows he's lazy by doing none of the above - don't even waste your time. Move on sooner rather than later because either way - he'll be gone eventually (because he was showing he was only half interested from day one).
@Anonymous Jul 13, 5:05 PM,
"I hope you think I did the right thing MOA by not saying where the hell have you been for the past few months"
Absolutely :-)
"I did kind of want to say during our next conversation "By the way you disappeared all this time why did you come back and add me"?"
NO. If you do that, here's what you effectively end up doing:
1) Reassuring him you're affected by him (i.e. "he's gotcha"). When it's been proven in studies that "uncertainty" creates romantic attraction:
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/wlas0006/1001a/Uncertainty%20Heightens%20Romantic%20Attraction.pdf
So you leave him uncertain - you don't reassure him (that you care or you're affected by his disappearance).
2) You give the impression that you're insecure without even realizing it when you start to question things. Be confident and carefree - not insecure and anxious :-)
3) By not mentioning it, you become "unpredictable" to him. Because he EXPECTS you to question him, because that's what 90% of the female population does. You don't do what he expects you to do - you keep him wondering and thinking about you and on his mind by leaving him uncertain, catching him off guard and being different from other women - and giving him plenty of space to breath in while doing all of that thinking he's going to be doing LOL ;-)
Here are some human behavior facts to familiarize yourself with so that you feel more confident in making these behaviors a regular part of your interaction with men:
People Place a High Value on Things They Have to Work For:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201204/does-playing-hard-get-make-you-fall-in-love
The Psychology of Why You Want What You Can't Have:
http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Wallin22.html
Facebook Psychology Experiment, Uncertainty Heightens Romantic Attraction:
http://blog.lib.umn.edu/wlas0006/1001a/Uncertainty%20Heightens%20Romantic%20Attraction.pdf
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