"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Dating: When, Why, How, To Use No Contact

There are many dating rules out there, but it’s the tried and true ones, the old fashioned traditional ways of doing things, that really do work, which is why certain rules have held true and lasted over the years.

One of those rules happens to be the No Contact Rule. In this handy little guide, I’m going to explain to you the how, when and why’s of this rule: how to use no contact, when to use no contact and why to use no contact when dating. Because this handy little dating rule serves more than just one purpose and has more than just one use.

I’m going to be speaking to the ladies here, but men, this applies to you as well. But I don’t have to tell you that. You guys are well versed in this dating rule and put it to use regularly. But for those men who may not be familiar with it, read on.

When And Why To Use The No Contact Rule When Dating


When A Man Suddenly Disappears On You

No Contact is a handy little trick to attempt to lure someone back to you – by disappearing on THEM. As most women already know, powerful attraction builds for a man that suddenly, and without warning, disappears. Why? Because you begin to think about them constantly.

Where did he go? Is there someone else? Why did he disappear? It doesn’t matter if all the thinking taking place is actually negative in nature, it only matters that all that thinking is actually taking place.


Why?

Because when someone thinks about you constantly, it actually creates intense attraction for them. Playing hard to get works, ladies, which is why it’s another one of those good ole’ fashioned rules that’s stuck around. Psychologically, people tend to want what they can’t have. It’s called the Law of Scarcity and it works in economics and in relationships.

It’s a scientific fact – uncertainty heightens romantic attraction. So if you’re worried he’ll think you’re not interested and then be gone for good, don’t bother thinking that. That’s just your insecurities talking, that’s just you thinking you’re not good enough. But YOU ARE good enough. Have faith in yourself that you’re worth it – and that he thinks you are, too. Don’t sell yourself short because how you perceive yourself – is how others will perceive you as well.

You see, when he’s uncertain as to whether or not you really like him, it’s actually a good thing. It keeps him interested. It keeps him coming around. It makes him want to win you over. It makes him work harder at the relationship. All those things it does to you when it happens to you – it does to him as well.

When a man disappears on you and you worry that he may be gone for good - when he resurfaces suddenly, do you kick him to the curb? Nope. Well, it works the same for men, gals. When you disappear on them suddenly and without warning and then you resurface out of nowhere, they’re unlikely to kick you to the curb. Rather, nine times out of ten, the individual is thrilled you’ve returned.

Men know this, ladies. They use this dating rule regularly – on YOU.

When You Want Your Ex Back

This handy dandy little dating rule can also be used to lure an ex back into your tangled web. If you’ve overwhelmed your ex with neediness, emotional displays, tons of questions about his feelings for you, anger and frustration and, as a result, he dumped you and now you want him back - employ the rule of no contact immediately. Why? To make him think he was wrong about you - and to make him miss you.

Why?

Because men are human too, ladies. They miss people and they’ll miss you when you suddenly disappear and they’re ringing your phone and texting you and you’re not answering or responding to them. That’s when the roles gets reversed and now THEY’RE thinking about YOU constantly. And all that thinking, negative or not, is actually going to create an intense attraction for you. The point is to stay away so long that the man actually begins to “long” for you.

Men equate “longing” for someone with love, ladies.

To Get Over A Man

Yep, the no contact rule is truly a handy dandy little rule with lots of uses. And the last use is to help you get over a bad breakup with a man – to help you emotionally detach from him. Why do you want to detach from him? So you can move on, think about him less, and allow room to meet other men and cease the unhealthy obsessive thought patterns and embarrassing behavior that ultimately, only makes you feel worse about yourself and helpless.

Why?

You see, when you desperately hang on, when you remain in communication with an ex, you’re doing yourself a big injustice. You’ll never get over him if you’re still communicating with him. So do yourself a big ole’ favor here and stop doing that, right now.

If you want the pain to go away, ladies – you have to make HIM go away, because he IS your pain.

How To Use The No Contact Rule When Dating


When A Man Suddenly Disappears On You OR When You Want Your Ex Back

Generally, the no contact rule is a 30 day rule. How to do this is, when a guy suddenly disappears on you without warning or breaks up with you and you want him to notice you again, you get his attention by suddenly disappearing on HIM – you make him experience the consequences.

It’s what’s best for him and you. That’s how you learn lessons in life, that’s how you learn not to repeat your mistakes and that’s how you experience personal growth and develop coping skills. And yes, they call them “growing pains” for a reason – they hurt. So expect it to hurt and brace yourself for a wonderful period of self-awareness and personal growth.

You disappear for 30 days. You do not take his calls. You do not respond to his texts. You do not communicate with him via social media. You do not communicate or respond at all, period, for 30 days. You stay gone and all he hears are crickets chirping in the dead of night.

After not hearing from you or receiving a response from you for 30 days, he'll begin to think this . . watch the video below, a song called "Madness" by Muse, and pay close attention to what this man is doing in these lyrics here - he's THINKING - about the WOMAN, and what HE did WRONG and how he's now READY to face the fact that he needs to LOVE:


Some woman most likely pulled "no contact" on his ass there.

So then, after a 30 day time period (30 days from the time you decided to use the no contact rule) and lots of time for him to think, you suddenly and without warning – resurface. And you do so by either:

1.) Finally responding to a question from one of his last communications (if he’s asked one)

2.) Simply saying, “Hello, how are you?”

And when communication is reinstated – you keep it short and sweet. You don’t share your emotions, you don’t cry, you don’t text back and forth like lightening for 5 hours and you don’t have long, drawn out 3 hour telephone conversations in an attempt to hash things out. You play it cool. You’re busy, you’re independent, you’re confident and you have a life. You “check in” is all. You make small talk and nothing more.

And from that point forward, you play it cool. You take an hour or so to respond to texts. You return calls a day or so later. You don’t accept last minute date requests, he has to make plans with you 3 days in advance or – you’ve already made plans (even if you haven’t, you pretend as if you have – remember, you have a life and you want to give him the impression that you’re busy, healthy and others desire your time as well). This is how you set healthy boundaries, earn respect and get him to treat you with fairness and kindness.

If he’s started out after the no contact period correctly but then suddenly relapses into bad behavior again, then you employ “behavioral mirroring” with him. If he disappears on you for 3 days, you don’t respond for 3 days. If he takes 24 hours to answer a text, you take 24 hours to respond. If he says he’ll call and he doesn’t, when he does, you don’t answer it and you respond to it 3 to 5 days later. And if he really begins misbehaving and taking you for granted again – you employ the no contact rule all over again for 30 days. This is how you create fairness and balance in a relationship and how you hold your own and you don’t get plowed over again.

This is how you earn a man’s respect, ladies. If you’re a pushover, then that’s exactly what he’s going to do to you – push you over.

When You Need To Get Over A Man Or A Breakup

Breakups hurt, rejection hurts. And most times, they hurt women more than men because of all the emotions women are capable of having that men are not. Men don’t analyze things or beat themselves up. Men PROJECT their emotions – outward and onto others. Women ABSORB their emotions – and beat themselves up.

If you want the pain to go away, you need to walk through those emotions and accept the reality. The only way to get rid of the pain is to feel the pain, to work through it and to learn to cope with your emotions in a healthy manner. To make that process much easier for yourself, you employ the no contact rule.

You do not, under any circumstances, communicate with the man. If you do, you’ll have to experience the consequences of your OWN decisions here – you’ll experience pain again, because you’ve permitted it. So you ignore his calls, you don’t respond to his texts, you remove him from any of your social media profiles and you put the past in the past.

If you remain in contact with your ex, you’ll never heal and you’ll continue to experience the hurt. You must cease contact for your own good. If you want the pain to go away, get rid of the pain – he IS your pain - and you need to get rid of him.

This will help you to think of him less and less as the days go on. You will begin to detach from him and from all of the negative emotions and damaging thought processes. You will no longer feel the intense desire to cling to him or to reach out to him. You will begin to feel better about yourself and you will begin to make room in your life for a new man – one that treats you with respect and kindness.

Using the no contact rule to get over a man - helps you to actually get over him.

And there you have it, a handy dandy little guide to employing the no contact rule properly when dating. There are many times in life ladies, that you must learn to say “no” and actually take responsibility for your own happiness and stop blaming the man when it’s actually YOU permitting this unhappiness. If you want things to change – then YOU have to change. You have to learn to be happy, with or without a man, and you need to stop living under the false impression that you need a man to make you happy.

Your happiness doesn’t come from a man, it comes from within yourself - and you radiate it, like warm sunshine.

So get comfortable with the phrases below:

“No, I won’t tolerate this.”

“No, this is unacceptable.”

“No, I won’t permit you to treat me like this”

“No, I will not be available to you when you treat me with disrespect and take me for granted.”

It’s Simple Gals


If you don’t look out for yourself and treat yourself with respect, then why would anyone else? Men want sex. Women want romance. So the best (and only) way for a man to have sex with you – is to romance you. Period, case closed. It’s a tradeoff, and a fair and equal one at that.

So make them do that, ladies: No romance = no sex. It’s simple.

Learn to say “no” and set healthy boundaries in your relationships and you will actually find that you will begin to feel empowered. You will develop a healthy self-esteem. You will feel confident. You will signal to men that you need to be treated with respect. You will grow dignity. You will find that you worry less and less about impressing a man – and you become more and more focused on a man impressing YOU (romancing you).

You have something he wants (sex): Make him work for it (romance).

Do that and you will be happy. You will be treated with respect and kindness. Give it away for free and you’ll be taken for granted by a man who never wants to lift a finger for you or impress you or give you what you need (romance).

This is not game playing, ladies. This is setting healthy boundaries for yourself, looking out for yourself and earning respect for yourself – and making a man treat you with such.

And here’s the harsh reality, ladies. Recent studies have shown that the modern day woman kisses approximately 75 frogs before finding her Prince Charming. So realize that when you stand your ground and demand respect, lazy men, users, and players seeking sex for free will walk away from you. But that’s a good thing because you’re weeding your way through the worthless ones that would’ve only hurt you anyway.

So if 74 frogs leap away from you – realize that the 75th is on his way to you.

It’s the good ole’ fashioned way of doing things. Back in the day, they called it courting. Try it, it works.

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2516 Comments:

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The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@VirgoPal,
"He told me he will make it up to me and he really wants to date me,but at this time I feel like his actions are not matching his words. I feel like I deserve a better effort and want to be treated like the great woman that I am and not be at the hands of a lazy dater who doesn't want to pull his weight."

Well, his actions are signaling that he's unsure of himself, and you, and the situation entirely. As a result, he's "locked" up and not following through on any action at all.

In this case, I think you're doing the best thing by moving on. Otherwise, he could string you along for months like this. And the way he's behaving, truthfully, doesn't bode well for a relationship. Meaning, he really doesn't seem ready to do anything here at all, let alone enter into a relationship or develop a commitment with someone, which would really require him to follow through. He's unable to do that now even with small things, so seeing a future with him is difficult - because of his own behavior right now.

As a result, I wouldn't put any more energy into the situation. Chances are he'd only read that as "pressure" anyway. If he wants you, he knows where to find you. And when he's ready to take action, he'll contact you with a solid proposal for a meet up. In the meantime, do as you are and continue moving on with your life. Don't sit and wait on a man who's not taking action. Keep living and moving forward. . .he knows where to find you when he's ready ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, thank you so much for this article and advice you have provided to so many, it has helped me a lot :)

I met a guy in August and have been texting with him since. We don't live in the same country so texting has been our main form of communication. He was always the initiator of texting, we had short conversations and long ones, superficial conversations and very deep ones. Main thing was that we basically chatted and texted every single day A LOT. He was always telling me how much he missed me and that I should come and visit him and he should come and visit me. As I am little shy it took a long time for me to actually make this happen but eventually in November I did travel to him. He was super sweet all weekend, we mostly stayed at his place, he cooked for me and we just watched movies and talked. I did spent both nights at his place, kissing and cuddling (no sex) and sleeping in his arms. After I got back home, we still texted, not as much as before but still he texted me.

A month went by and I visited him again (weekend) in the beginning of this month. As he hadn't been texting as intensely as before, I asked him about the texting and he just said "nothing has changed, sometimes I'm busy, sometimes you are busy. we can't be on chat 24/7. Every time I ask you, you are at work, I'm at school". Yeaaa newsflash: that was the situation before also and still we found time to text.

I also asked why he never calls or visit me (I know his economic situation is not the best, he still studies and works only part-time).
I'm quite shy and sooo sensitive. It took me a lot to ask these questions. Basically, he didn't really give me any answer, all he said was "I will visit you, I'll call you". We cuddled and watched movies and ended up having sex. Later that evening I received bad news about my close relative, so I couldn't help being a bit sad. He got really worried and held me and was super sweet and comforting. Next morning we talked and I realized that he is a kind of a loner. He doesn't live in his own country, far from it and doesn't speak the language too good but I know he has some friends. I asked him again, why we don't talk as much as we used to. He laughed and said 'I've told you everything'. Which is not true.

I left on Sunday evening, he texted me a couple of hours later asking me did I make it home safe. Ever since then his texting hasn't been much and I'm often the initiator to the texting. He replies with one or two sentences and then nothing. Today I haven't heard from him and it's past noon.

So I'm considering the NC rule on him. Am I totally unreasonable? Every time I text him to initiate a conversation I feel stupid. I miss him, but he doesn't miss me. Or at least as much to text me or to call me to hear my voice. What did I do to make him distance himself from me?


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 10, 6:42 AM,
"I met a guy in August. . .We don't live in the same country. . .in November I did travel to him. . .A month went by and I visited him again"

Why isn't HE coming to YOU? A man should court a woman, which means HE should go out of his way to impress HER. Later on down the line after a relationship is established that can change, but in the early stages - he should be putting some effort forth.

And if a man isn't willing to do that for a woman early on, then he's not a man worth dating because if a woman settles for what "little" he's doing, then he'll never raise the bar and provide "more."

"What did I do to make him distance himself from me?"

Nothing. It appears this is simply a man that doesn't want a relationship at this time. It also appears that he's a man that's unwilling to really put forth any effort into dating as well. Most likely, if it comes easy for him, he participates. But if he's asked for "more" - then he doesn't :-(

"I'm considering the NC rule on him. Am I totally unreasonable?"

Nope - the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested. . .is to see if HE pursues HER ;-)

Anonymous said...

I feel so much better about my situation after reading all the helpful comments in this blog. Here's my story: met this guy online a few weeks ago. We hit it off instantly. Online communication turned into text, which then turned into phone. Eventually, he asked to hang out and I agreed. We talked every single day (text and calling) until we met a few days later. We went for coffee, which turned into dinner because our chemistry was so strong. Our chemistry was undeniable because we were talking about the future with each other. For instance, we both hinted at future plans that involved the other.

We couldn't keep off each other for the next couple of days. Constant calling and texting and we made arrangements to meet two days later. We saw each other three days in a row and then saw each other another time after a two day break. Movies, dinner, music festival (we're both really into electronic music), etc., we did a lot. Honestly, I never hit it off with anyone like this. An outsider would have seen us as moving way too fast. We saw each other 4 times in a week during the first time we met and talked all the time. We slept together on our fourth date and it was awesome. We talked about sleeping together prior to doing it so there was a mutual agreement. During our dates, we were acting like a couple -- we held hands, kissed in public, he put his arm around me, etc.

Then, he became distant after our fifth date. He was still calling and texting but it didn't feel the same. I started to feel the insecurities rise in me. I was slowly starting to show my insecurities and he's somewhat insecure, so the inevitable happened. He became erratic one night and called me and said that we needed to stop seeing each other because some things about our personalities meshing wouldn't work out in the long run. I was shocked because we've had such an awesome time and it seemed like this came out of nowhere.

We met up 2 days later and didn't communicate prior to this meeting. He told me that he wanted a break and I asked if this break meant we could date other people and he said yes. He said he didn't lie about how we was acting and all, but that we were moving too fast and he wasn't sure if he wanted any of this -- that is, he wasn't sure if he wanted a relationship (what he probably meant was a relationship with me). This is on top of our personalities clashing problems (though I don't know where that came from because we didn't get into a situation that would show him how it would be a problem). After trying to convince him to just move slow with the dating and that we didn't need to see and talk the way we've been doing so, he said no and that he wants a break (or I'm taking it as a break-up). He didn't give me a timeline or anything. I gave up trying to convince him and left.

It's been 3 and a half weeks since I last spoke to him. The first week was so hard, it still is. I do think of him and wonder how he's doing. I'm upset that he did this, but I respect his decision, which is why I will not reach out to him. However, part of me hopes that he will come back, but I know I can't count on it because it will paralyze me mentally to think that way. Anyway, can you shed some insight on my situation? =)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 10, 10:44 PM,
"We slept together on our fourth date and it was awesome. . .Then, he became distant after our fifth date. . .I started to feel the insecurities rise in me. I was slowly starting to show my insecurities. . ."

Well, this isn't unusual - and quite honestly, this is one of the top "make or break" moments in a budding relationship - the days/week following the first intimate encounter.

It's a make or break moment because:

1) Men almost always pull away during this time to "come up for air" and "check in" with their feelings.

(They don't feel many of their feelings during times of togetherness, but instead during times of absence, unlike women.) They pull back to see if they miss you, long for you, want to see you again, etc. If they do, they're "feeling it" and proceed. If that doesn't happen, they may bop in and out of your life casually (no relationship) or simply disappear altogether.

2) Women almost always interpret this behavior as "uninterested." Their insecurities tend to rise during this time and instead of playing it cool - they launch into "fix it" mode full force. They begin pursuing, questioning, etc. And this can turn an otherwise interested man who simply wanted some space, into an uninterested man who starts to pull the slow fade.

So it's a crucial time for women to:

1) Play it cool and confident.
2) Be just as silent.
3) Not question.
4) Not pursue.

Otherwise - kerplewie.

So play it cool, be confident, don't pursue, don't reach out, and move forward and continue dating others. If he doesn't hear a peep out of you, chances are he'll circle around in a month or two to "check in" (at which time you tell him how much fun you're having LOL ;-)

And the first time he does that - don't jump on that call or text right away. Let him wonder why you're not responding, where you're at. . .and WHO you're with. Take over his mind space with those thoughts and grab his attention in doing so ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror-

LOVE your blog!
Regarding your post at 4:23 PM, I had a very similar situation happen to me recently, and I responded as you are suggesting. My DM dropped off the face of the earth-this is really unusual for him, I've known him for about 4 months and we've been casually seeing each other.


The last time I heard or saw him was 10 days ago, after we slept together. DM sent me a text checking in, like he usually does, then he went silent for over two days-which was pretty typical of him, we would be in contact about every 2 or 3 days and saw each other a few times a week.


I decided about a month ago that I needed to start dating others, as we were not committed and I was sensing he was starting to take me for granted. He knew I was dating others and distancing myself. He appeared very cool about it, kind of like "do what you have to do"


I have a feeling he's been stalking me on dating sites. I won't go into all the details but the most recent incident is that I was on an online dating site, chatting with other men, a few days after DM and I were together (like a week ago). DM's picture/profile popped up very quick and as quick as he was on, he was off. I'm quite intuitive and I sensed as soon as I saw his profile in the chat box, there would be a fallout. It felt like bolt of energy going through my entire body and only lasted for a few seconds. I am wondering out loud if it was just anxiety or a premonition. (which I've experienced before)


I have not heard from him since and it has been over 10 days. I've not reached out and I won't and I'm dating others (met a sweet guy who treats me like a queen and we're going on our 3rd date since the DM took off). I don't know, I feel like he's punishing me. He had ample opportunity to step up for 3 months and he didn't, now I think he's just acting like a little kid. Personally, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong but I'd love some feedback/advice.

Anonymous said...

From @Anonymous Dec 10, 10:44 pm

Thanks for your insight The Mirror of Aphrodite!

It was just so strange because I mirrored his actions and pace for the limited time that we had together. And then he said things were moving too fast and it felt like a relationship and he wasn't sure he wanted that. What's weird is that he dated a couple of girls before me for a short time that didn't work out and for 2 of them, he told me that he asked them where their relationship was going after a couple of weeks (and I think the women initiated the break in dating) and with me he breaks it off? After he told me that he never hit it off with someone the way he hit it off with me and comfortable he felt, etc. It's not consistent.

I agree with your advice and have been following it. I don't plan to pursue or reach out to him (I was tempted to so many times in the first week). Playing it cool and confident is not easy because there are times during the day where I rethink everything and feel bad about myself, but then those moments pass once I occupy my time. But, they still reappear here and there. You make some interesting points in 2). I not only interpreted his behavior as uninterested, I also felt like maybe he wasn't genuine in his actions, affection, liking for me, etc. It just felt like a complete turnaround and I feel stupid and foolish at times to have fallen for all of that (if it was fake).

Although we had a short lived dating "situation" that wasn't official, what I felt was really intense and potentially deep. I'm just afraid that because it was so short that he might easily forget about us and move on. I certainly haven't forgotten, but I'm not sure about him because he let go so easily. He's also more emotional than any other man I've ever been with and I'm not sure how to factor that in. He could also be seeing other women or maybe one or both of those women he was dating before me returned and he wanted to give it a shot.

What do you think about all of that?

Thanks for reading!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 11, 10:56 PM,
"Personally, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong but I'd love some feedback/advice."

You're doing exactly as you should given the current situation. He knows you're dating others and rather than step up to the plate, his attitude about it was an apathetic "whatever" - so - whatever LOL.

When you treat people as if you could care less, guess what? They end up caring less about you as a result. That's life, and that's as it should be. Never give more than you're getting. Keep the playing field balanced at all times so as to not mislead yourself or get run over and left for dead.

He very well may be stalking you. Men do this just as much as women do, although they rarely admit it. And if he is, then that's his problem. He knows what he'd need to do, to keep you from dating others, and he's choosing not to do anything. That's his choice, not your problem.

And chances are, he IS punishing you on some level. Sometimes, when folks are incredibly insecure, they don't process things in the correct manner. Meaning, their perspective is out of line because insecurities are skewing it. So in his mind, he's punishing you for dating others and not chasing him down, or permitting him to string you along for months, and months, and months.

Meanwhile, he fails to realize that his own actions are actually signaling to you that he could care less. He's apathetic about the entire issue. And when someone treats you like that, then it's 100% acceptable for them to move on. But because his perception is skewed by insecurity, he's unable to process that in that manner. He's unable to see or understand that HE is the one that caused this. Your current behavior is only a reaction to HIS actions (or lack thereof). And if he were capable of common sense and logical thinking (without insecurities in the way), he'd easily realize that. Unfortunately, that's not where he's at in life right now :-(

But again, these are all HIS issues, not yours - so leave him be to deal with those on his own, and you worry about nothing but yourself and your own happiness right now. Don't put his feelings or needs before your own, because he's not doing that for you - so it's entirely unnecessary.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 10, 10:44 pm,
"I'm just afraid that because it was so short that he might easily forget about us and move on."

But - if a man is able to easily let go and move on like that, that's telling you something, right? It's telling you a lot actually. So why fear that? Why not be thankful for that gift of insight instead? Why not be thankful for the fact that he showed his true character, which in turn, gave you greater clarity about the situation and enabled you to make the right decision for yourself?

Stuff like that is actually a gift dear, not a curse.

It only becomes a curse when we let our emotions skew the facts that are actually being unveiled. It only becomes a curse when we ignore what that behavior and treatment really means, and instead we decide to "fix" things, ignore the warnings and the writing on the wall, and proceed forth into "dangerous" emotional territory that poses a real potential to be deeply hurt.

"What's weird is that he dated a couple of girls before me for a short time that didn't work out and for 2 of them, he told me that he asked them where their relationship was going after a couple of weeks (and I think the women initiated the break in dating) and with me he breaks it off?"

It could be that he had a "knee-jerk" reaction here, based on his past experiences versus the actual situation he was in. But the "why" doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that he's made this decision, so now he's got to suffer the consequences of it - and you need to proceed accordingly with the information you've been given.

Let him worry about and fix the "why" part.

That's his "stuff" to work through. And no, it's not consistent. His WORDS and his ACTIONS are not lining up - which is a big red flag. When that happens, your "BS meter" should start sounding off alarm bells. Inconsistency signals that you're dealing with someone you can't trust, rely on, or really follow through life.

You don't want to let a man lead who doesn't know where he's even going. You don't follow men like that through life. If you do, they'll steer the car right into a ditch. Then they'll jump out of it and blame you for their accident. As women, we have to be very careful that the only men we "submit" to and decide to let lead us through life are ones that are stable, reliable, consistent, logical and trustworthy. Those are the traits of successful, healthy people. Those are the only ones worth pairing up with and following through life.

Anonymous said...

A quick update on my forced NC. My ex has now given up on texting and has started emailing me asking me if I've changed my phone number and that he misses me. I feel terribly guilty for my continued silence but he's got to move on and allow me to move on. We haven't had a conversation now since I initiated NC over 1 1/2 months ago and have been broken up for 6+ months. I've continued NC. I feel like if I say anything it will just open everything back up again? He never gives up! Help!?

Astrid

loretta said...

Happy Holidays, everyone! I have several updates to share. First, Casual Guy stepped up and accommodated my requests, and for two weeks straight went to (what is for him) some lengths to demonstrate he wanted me to continue working with him. I remained friendly, fun, and casually mentioned there were other people interested in my business ideas if he didn't want to take action on them. We had a serious conversation about how to move forward with our work and with the relationship. He doesn't know I am dating a former colleague of his, although he has a hint of it. It's really none of his business, and I'm going to keep my cards close to my chest. I hope it annoys him, actually... haha

Meanwhile, the new beau (a friend of CG) has been very attentive, but not smothering. We are planning a nice dinner party for friends of his, and he also invited me to a holiday gathering at a foo foo French restaurant that will include some of his colleagues.

In keeping with the energy of attraction, I am also meeting men online, sifting through the idiots and losers, and have made a few connections that may result in a date. I am so much more selective these days, I rarely get past a few messages before I lose interest. One guy seemed promising, only to remain on "text mode" and treat me like an afterthought. I quickly brushed that aside. The next guy who seemed real was informed that I think texting is for kids, and that I'd enjoy a phone call. He said he would call today. ALWAYS TALK TO THEM FIRST before meeting them! It will tell you a lot!

With regard to the above comments from other women suffering at the hands of users and losers, I feel your pain. "When a person can walk away from you, let them go!" I subscribe to that 100 percent! While CG and I have intertwined destinies, I am, finally (and I mean FINALLY), ready to let him go. Even if things don't turn into paradise with New Guy, I needed that to step back and see what it was like, once again, to be really wanted by a guy. That feels really good. Don't settle for less.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. I've been reading all your posts and most of the comments.
Indeed they have helped me a lot with my insecurity.
I know I have control issues ever since a child, that I like to stick with the plan unless you have a good explanation why you cannot follow it, which might make other people feel a little pressure.
By going through your posts, I try to think differently and relax if something I cannot control.
However, I donno how to react when my boyfriend (soon to be an ex) does certain things that just hit my spot. I don't even know if I'm over-reacting or it's my control issue..

M bf has this tendency to change or cancel the plan last minute, usually due to illness or work load. I've talked to him I don't like that, but he said he's sorry, but it's something he cannot do anything about it.

So this Christmas break, he told me that he wanna travel somewhere with me, and have asked my available vacation time etc, not once, couple times. I took the days off and haven't seen him planning anything. I let it go because I don't want to nag (usually my control issue will kick in and start asking the plan). Few days before Christmas, we made a plan to see Christmas tree in the city, got cancelled on that morning because he's having headache and toothache. I was pissed, he could let me know on the day before or at least hint me. His excuse was he wanted to sleep it off to see if it goes away, but it just got worse, so he had to cancel. And then few days later, which was yesterday, he told me he booked the ticket to fly back home (Europe) to fix his teeth (his mom is a dentist), he leaves that night.
I was like... wtf.. We made a plan to travel, I took days off for you, and now you're leaving me behind? He could have gone to local dentist to fix but I guess it's holiday time and nothing available.
But still, I donno how to react.. I'm pissed yes, but at the same time I wonder if it's me lacking empathy and control issue or it's him cannot keep his words and takes me for granted..
This behavior is NOT acceptable, but he has a good reason (?)
I'm confused and don't know what to do... For now I've deleted his phone contact after he sent me last text msg that he's leaving, and I did not respond to that text. I'm sure at some point he's going to contact me (maybe through email), but I'm not sure what should I respond..

Will be glad if you can give me a little advice. Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 24, 4:31 PM,
It's one thing for cancellations to happen occasionally, that's life. However, when you begin to see a regular pattern of this behavior developing, then it's no longer acceptable because most likely, the individual is now just making excuses.

Beyond that, he knew you took off work for this holiday with him. If he were able to think of others and not only himself, he would understand what that meant, and he would understand that the proper thing to do is to address it in advance.

Otherwise, it's selfish behavior to not think of the sacrifices others have made for you, and how your behavior is affecting others around you.

"I wonder if it's me lacking empathy and control issue or it's him cannot keep his words and takes me for granted."

Because this is now happening regularly, it appears he's taking you for granted. Taking you for granted in that, no matter what he does and no matter how poorly he treats you. . .you'll still be there for him, willing and waiting.

He's assuming that's the case, and he's taking it for granted that you'll still be there.

"This behavior is NOT acceptable"

Then don't accept it. And don't respond to him until he either issues a sincere apology for his lack of attention lately or asks for a talk.

Don't let him manipulate you into thinking you just need to calm down. You don't. If he doesn't have enough time to date, then he shouldn't be dating. It's not fair to expect someone to be okay with, and accept, what little you have to give.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, thanks for the kind reply!

"He's assuming that's the case, and he's taking it for granted that you'll still be there."
I think that's the case. I have a weak spot for him, that's for sure.
I tried all method to reason with him or the silent treatment (2 weeks), nothing works. He just pretends nothing's wrong and keep contacting me with small talks.
I even calmly trying to break up with him last month, saying we're not right for each other and we want different things. (I told him I want a family, he knows that clearly) Then he convinced me to have another try, and he will make a decision.

I don't understand, if building a solid relationship with me isn't what he wants, then why convinced me to have another try? We click very well together, but when we're apart, he's mostly a lone wolf. Maybe he's never a relationship material, but he also wants someone to have fun in the mean time?

I guess I'll find my answer by not contacting him as long as it should be.
If anything, I'll update here. Wish me the best.

Sophie

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous Dec 24, 4:31PM.
Listen to MOA. I was in a similar situation to the one you are in. The guy I was seeing was taking me for granted in that no matter how poorly and disrespectful he treated me, I always excused it. So he would just treat me poorly again. Not a pretty cycle. So Finally, I had enough and went No Contact on him ( I did not initiate or respond to any text messages or phone calls) No contact has helped me to regain control, my dignity and my self-respect. He's slowly getting the message (I think) as he stopped by my house over the weekend and gave me a little Christmas gift. This is a big step because in the past, he would have never done that. And note, I did not give him anything in return. He was not on my Christmas list this year because of the way he treated me (especially this past Spring and Summer) and I refuse to reward bad behavior (something I learned from MOA). So as MOA says, DO NOT accept your guy's behavior. Go No contact on him and let him think about how he's been treating you (Trust me, he'll know he's been doing you wrong. contrary to popular belief, men aren't stupid). Respond only when he apologizes or asks to talk to you about the situation.

loretta said...

Happy New Year's Eve Eve, everyone! I just returned from a mini vacation in the Motor City (and nobody vacations in Detroit, hello!), mainly to meet up with a guy I have been friends with for 3 years. We met online way back in 2013, and mostly talked over the phone, shared interesting links, books, websites, etc., and a few times we met in person, and he has stopped by en route to take his son to college. But, the 3 hour distance between us was prohibitive. We made a little bargain that if neither of us met a good match by the time my son graduates from high school, we would get together and sail off into the sunset.

It was a fun dream to have, and so far, it seemed like it might happen. However, when we met in Detroit to spend a couple days together - as an experiment, with both of us hoping we'd have some chemistry - it was not to be. I won't go into why, but suffice it to say, I knew I could not be with him in any way beyond friend. I don't know if this ruined our friendship; I hope not, but you never know. He was just too bossy, controlling, hovering, critical, and not at all appealing when I observed his personal habits. Oh well. I have been a free little bird so long, I suppose any guy will seem bossy to me!

Meanwhile, I have a suitor who lives almost an hour away, he is very mellow, I like him pretty well, but he is kind of lazy. To deal with that, I was very cool and unavailable the last time he contacted me after we spent both Friday and Saturday evenings entertaining or doing a holiday party. We had a great time. Then....he is crickets except for a couple of texts. When he texted me that he would call later and he didn't until the next day? I let it roll into voicemail. Texted him a few hours later, saying I was busy at Casual Guy's house in a writing meeting (He is probably really jealous of CG.) Then he called and asked if I wanted to come over on Saturday. I said probably not. He then was surprised. So he suggested we meet closer to my house and I said, ok. He drove out to the bar we go to with his friends (and it's really fun), and I met him there. When he said he missed me, I said, "No you didn't." He was taken aback. He said, "Yes I did!" I said, "You didn't show it." and I was Miss Cool but nice for the rest of the evening. He offered to take me home with him and bring me back. I said, "No, thanks." He wanted to go downtown to the casino, I said, 'Not tonight. I'm tired." So, I gave him the big brush off. He realized he had blown it. I got up to leave and he followed me out. I said, "I'm going home, I'm bored." He said ok. He apologized for being an idiot. I said, "Ok, whatever." He called me when he got home, and we talked a little. I said, Hey, you want me to be all warm and fuzzy after you ignore me all week? Ain't gonna happen. So, he asked me to see him New Year's Eve or any days I was free, and I said, Ok, I'll let you know. Then I went to Detroit to meet Michigan Man.

That's the way to keep yourself out of being desperate, clingy, neglected, and upset. I am totally in the driver's seat, now.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA! I love your blogs. I need some help. I met a significantly younger man on the Internet. He found me on Instagram and initiated contact. He had some insecurities (abt my appearance and any attention from other men), but I soothed them, and he was THE best boyfriend ever for abt 3.5 months. He is in the military and was in Bahrain at the time. I'm in the states (NJ). He was slated to come home in nov and then to South Carolina for 3 months. He demanded exclusivity from the door. He said we were in a relationship. He was kind, consistent, , attentive, and perfect. We made plans for nov and spent a weekend together in dec. All this time, he was telling how he was so in love with me, he talked about getting married, babies, and requested to be placed in NY after SC.

As per your blogs, I leaned back - never initiated contact or expressed emotions unless I was mirroring him. After our weekend in December, he choked. We agreed to change our fb status. He never changed his and the drama began. He decided that he couldn't commit bc he wasn't sure where he would wind up. I asked why he would do that to me, and he said he loves me and wants to be with me but hadn't thought it through. He a
Said he was selfish and cold and that I'm better off w someone else.

I know his feelings were real. I just don't understand why he was ok w an ldr in Bahrain, but not going fwd (and that was just in case he didn't get placed in ny). He apologized for wasting my time, and after trying to bargain with him and listening to him apologize, I have up and went no contact. The thing is, we were really in love. He flew 15 hours and then drove 4 hours the same day to see me the day he landed. I'm a single mom of two. He says if he winds up in NY, that he could commit fully. I was so angry that he asked for so much from me and got cold feet, that I totally blew up on him.

Will the 30 days of NC help?? It ended very ugly...he went cold and I went hysterical. Is this a hopeless situation that I need to walk away from and forget? He seems so hurt and conflicted, but I also am afraid to let him back in, since he showed me that he's capable of being deceitful and distant and throwing me away with no warning. Please help.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mon, Jan 4, 6:58 PM,
"I met a significantly younger man on the Internet. He found me on Instagram and initiated contact. He had some insecurities (abt my appearance and any attention from other men), but I soothed them . . . He demanded exclusivity from the door. He said we were in a relationship."

Had you ever met him face to face before he asked? And if so, how long did you date him before agreeing (i.e. how much face to face time did you spend with him?)

Because when a man asks for exclusivity up front, particularly without having ever met the woman or spent time with her - it's a BIG red flag. No one, no matter who you are, can possibly know if they truly love or care for someone right off the bat like that.

And unfortunately, when that happens, when things start off fast and hot - they burn just as quick. Those situations generally result in a brief fling of about 3-4 months, which I see is what happened here unfortunately :-(

"He decided that he couldn't commit bc he wasn't sure where he would wind up. . . he said he loves me and wants to be with me but hadn't thought it through."

THAT is why you cannot agree to exclusivity from the get-go :-(

Because again, it's not possible to really know how you feel about a stranger and whether or not you'll want to spend any length of time with them. It takes a LOT of time to truly get to know someone and decide whether or not they're the right person for you. So when he says he hadn't thought it through - that's the exact reason you can't agree to that right away. . .because it's simply not possible to know. And a man asking for that right away should signal to you that he couldn't have possibly thought it through, ya' know? You can't think these things through in a week or two.

So when a man asks for exclusivity right up front - again - BIG red flag :-(

"He said he was selfish and cold"

Then you better believe him. When men tell you something like that - BELIEVE IT.

When they say they don't want a commitment, believe them. When they tell you they're selfish and cold, believe them. When they tell you they're not sure of what they want, believe them. Don't give the benefit of doubt.

Because they're telling you things about them that they already know, and that they ALREADY HEARD FROM OTHERS (other women) repeatedly. . .so believe them.

"I know his feelings were real"

How do you know this though? How do you know this to be fact? He was a virtual stranger and unless you spent 6, 8, 9+ months dating him face to face, how can you possibly know if it was truth, or simple "good intention" and nothing more?

Because if his feelings WERE real, he wouldn't be wavering on them right now :-( Instead, he'd be taking ACTION to make things happen.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I just don't understand why he was ok w an ldr in Bahrain"

Because it's lonely when you're serving dear. These men need someone to talk to, and the thought of a woman waiting at home for them is comforting to them, as it would be to you if you were in his shoes, ya' know?

"we were really in love. He flew 15 hours and then drove 4 hours the same day to see me the day he landed."

Maybe it felt that way, but taking that trip doesn't signify love, it signifies curiosity.

Real love involves much more sacrifice than that, it involves consistency with your actions, it involves actually taking action (versus simply talking about it), it involves work, a lot of time spent, investment (emotional, time, etc.). . .there's a LOT that goes into real love. It takes a LOT OF WORK over a LONG period of time for it to grow, ya' know?

When it comes on quick - that's infatuation.

Infatuation can feel like love because of it's intensity, but it's not real love. Because again, real love requires a LOT of work, time spent, sacrifice, etc. The intensity alone doesn't make it love. The definition of infatuation is "an intense but short-lived passion or admiration." So it can feel intense, it can feel passionate too. But it lacks the time spent and the hard work required to build something real together and develop deep feelings for one another.

"Will the 30 days of NC help?"

It will help you to emotionally detach from him, yes.

"he went cold and I went hysterical"

But - he already told you he's selfish and cold, and while that's unfortunate - it shouldn't come as a surprise, ya' know?

"Is this a hopeless situation that I need to walk away from and forget?"

That's for you to decide. You have to ask yourself if this man is worth this or not, and whether or not he's willing to do the WORK involved that would be necessary for this to actually work (i.e. relocate, spend lots of time together, make you a priority, invest emotionally, etc.)

If it were me - I'd believe what he told me "he said he's selfish and cold" -- especially after seeing it firsthand myself :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, is it ever too late (post breakup) to start no contact (with a taurus man)?
A little background: He broke up with me in late October and we still talked, he invited me to dinner, out with his friends, christmas gifts (with a handwritten note from him saying even though we arent yogether I still want you to know that i love you dearly),he calls, gets jealous,still had feelings for each other. He is extremely stubborn likes control, etc. It has been 2 months post breakup and I have talked and talked with him. I feel like he takes me for granted. I didn't want to start the new year in limbo or always be there for him. So he called on nye and we texted later. After his last text I havent texted him since nye. So, is it ever to late to start nc?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 7, 1:50 PM,
"is it ever to late to start nc?"

It's never too late. NC will help you to emotionally detach. Because as you can see, going backwards from lovers to friends is something that generally doesn't work, keeps you emotionally attached to the person and "locked" in place -- and requires a LOT of maturity to be done successfully.

When you make yourself overly available to people - it tends to invite poor treatment from them (i.e. take it for granted that you'll always be there for them, no matter how bad they treat you.)

Anonymous said...

Hi! This is Anonymous from January 4th at 6:58. Thank you for the feedback. To answer the question, we facetimed maybe three times a day for about three months. We had movie dates every weekend. He insists that his feelings were genuine. I'm not sure what happened, but I told him that I thought it would be best if we stopped communicating. I was lashing out at being used - I get the lonliness of serving, but he didn't have to play with my emotions and mislead me- and he was being distant and apologizing.


I'm definitely in active no contact. I blocked his number so that I wouldn't be checking for his texts. I don't think he will ever contact me again bc I have "served my purpose". Plus he thinks his actions are so hurtful that I'll hate him forever. He even talked about how karma was going to get him. He talked about having insecuritues and thinking he didn't deserve good things. He is estranged from his mom (ugly divorce and lives w his dad, brother and step siblings). I think attachments are hard for him. The reason he distanced himself keeps changing. He got everything he asked me for. He's a Sag and I'm an Aries. I'm toying with the idea of reaching out in 30 days. I have a really strict diet,(no gluten or dairy or soy due to migraines) and he went through all this trouble to modify a recipe and cook for me (he was very thoughtful like that). I wanted to try making it,so I was just going to say hi, and ask if he could give me the name of it so I can google it at the end of 30 dats.

I'm a mental health counselor by trade. He seems so conflicted. He said he felt controlling and manipulative and that he never wanted to e that way with me or anyone. But, I'm not at work....I was in what he said was an exclusive relationship until he wanted to downgrade me to a chick he talks to and sees sometimes. I said absolutely not. I miss him a lot, but the communication addiction is fading. I just really didn't see this coming.

It took about three weeks of communicating for him to start really pushing exclusivity and needing reassurance that I wasn't taking to anyone else. It's not my job to figure out though.m he came home, and just didn't want me anymore even though he still insisted that the same feelings were there. Idk why he went through all the trouble if he didn't want anything. #wastehertime

permalosa said...

Dear Mirror

3 years ago I ran into this guy at our mutual friend’s birthday party; I hadn’t seen him since college (I am almost 42 now). He lives on the East Coast, I live in the middle of the country. When I ran into him at the party he told me he was coming to my town a lot these days for work, and told me all about his project. I was in a relationship at the time so was just like ‘hey, cool’ but never thought another thing about it.

Last February I get an email message from him asking if I would like to have dinner.
We had dinner from February to May, maybe once-twice a month, whenever he was in town.
During that time he told me again that he was separated and that they were currently filing for divorce (he had told me that when I saw him at the birthday party 3 years ago). I believed him and was not concerned because our mutual friend had vouched he was very unhappy with his marriage. In May he stayed over at my house but nothing happened.
Over May I saw him more and he would stay over and there was a little kissing.
At the end of May I was supposed to go abroad for the entire summer so I initiated some conversation with him the day he was leaving. For better or for worse, I told him that I didn’t know what kind of relationship we might have but that I was not interested in a LDR or an on-off weekend thing. (I guess I led with my emotions here : ( I was nervous about going away for the summer and we hadn’t talked about whether or not we would see each other. I see now that I should have just sat tight to see what he would bring up, even after he left town.)

His response was that he was not interested in playing around with anyone’s emotions and that he would show me - and over the course of the summer he kept in touch with me regularly and came to visit me (abroad) three different times, once for each month I was away. Half-way through the summer we got physically involved. Even though I was trying to be realistic, I started looking forward to what might happen once I was back in my town and we could visit more regularly. Over the summer he made a point to tell me that his divorce should be finalized by the summer’s end and that he hoped to be visiting my town with a lot more regularity so that we could move forward, with the implication that we might eventually end the LDR. At one point at the end of the summer I asked him if we were exclusive and his answer was “I think at this point that goes without saying."

permalosa said...

Well. Once I got back to the US (he picked me up at the airport), things never developed as I thought. From September to December things stalled out. He travels a lot with his work, a very high-pressure job, and he also has a child. Those 4 months I might get on average 1 phone call a week (though he was texting most every day), and perhaps 1-2 short visits a month. By the end of October II felt very unsettled and not sure what to do, so I spoke to him about it (instead of backing off, which I now know would have probably been the best move). I asked him if anything had changed. I explained (all in the same single conversation) that I felt like I would like to know that we would be seeing each other twice a month and talk more on the phone if we were going to continue (in an LDR! because the moving thing suddenly seemed off the table, with the way things were going), and that I would like to feel more included in his life. Needless to say, in hindsight I see that I should have just backed way off or gone NC. I didn’t realize about the training or the games… I thought we were having open communication, or at least trying for it. His response was to verbally appease me, but nothing really changed. He always has a good ‘excuse’ because his work is incredibly high pressure (involving life and death, really) and he has a child. So plans tended to be last minute, and we had no holiday plans made. I had planned to visit his town in mid-December to see him as well as other friends but by this past December 10 I called off the trip (we had not spoken on the phone for about a week) and we broke up. He said that the divorce was going slowly and that he was having financial problems (both of which seemed true) and that his work commitments/stress were preventing him from giving the relationship the attention that he knows it deserves and that he could not see circumstances changing in the immediate future, and that he was feeling a lot of pressure about not being able to meet any of his obligations. I asked him if it had to do with his feelings for me and he replied that he had strong feelings/cared deeply for me for some time now, and that I was misreading his current life circumstances as neglect. But he did not offer any solutions or seem to offer any direct hope for the future, other than refusing to say it is definitively over.

Boy. I have not known how to read all this. It seems pretty straight forward, except we had great times when we were together, he seemed to enjoy spending time with me a lot, we had fantastic chemistry, and when I asked him why he was pursuing me long-distance, he said that he found it really hard to find someone he likes. He had also said on several occasions that he would like to be with me in the town where I lived. So in spite of all the circumstances, I had hope for our relationship and he (at least vocalized that he) did too. It really was, however, that from September to December when we broke up, his actions fell short of his words, pretty consistently. The few times that I asked him about it, he never broke it off but insisted that things would change with time.

permalosa said...

In the 15 days or so after the breakup a few emojis were exchanged, but since then I have been strictly no contact… Some 12 days now. He texted me 12 days ago to say he hoped that I am well, and I did not respond. Since then I have not heard from him either. It is getting really painful, but I have still not contacted him because I know that is not the solution right now, no matter what. It’s just so hard to come to terms with, in this silence, that our whole relationship might have been a lie. I can’t make sense of it. I also cannot decide how I feel about him… why he could never level with me about his life. With all of his issues he has not been able to be around much for me, but at the beginning I could feel that he liked me and so I hoped things would grow. Even though he alludes to problems (financial, relationship, otherwise) he was very guarded about sharing many specifics about those areas. I never got to visit him on his ‘home turf’ to get a sense of that, either. The truth is that he is a pretty quiet/private guy so it seemed to be his personality (my friend again vouches) so at the beginning I was not particularly worried and tried to let him be, not prying into his life — and that felt ok because I could feel, instinctually, that he was into me and the relationship. Over time, however, as it felt like he was withdrawing some, I wasn’t sure what was going on. It seems now like we were mostly just operating on ‘potential’ - although in terms of feelings and chemistry and intellectual compatibility, there seemed to be a lot there. Stuff that is hard to come by. Some part of me still hopes he will come back, or at the very least get back in contact. He still comes to my town, no matter what… Does it seem like he might resurface? And if so, is this even worth giving a second shot? Insight welcome.

loretta said...

Hi everyone. First, I want to comment to permalosa above and say that all of us here have read/heard this tale so many times, it's become almost like a playbook. Do these guys have a playbook? I wonder. I realize that when a guy acts that way, it makes me want to try harder, to chase him, to make him realize what an awesome chick I am. That's my problem. I've had to learn to not need his validation and to quit trying to prove that I'm worthy. How could he not want me? That's my ego talking. Ever since 2009 (never before), I was attracted to emotionally unavailable men - men for whom I was way too good, way too nice, way too accommodating. I had gone so long without a relationship, I was willing to at their mercy. No More! I don't need anyone's approval.

Update on New Guy (and Casual Guy) As I mentioned, New Guy was a good friend of Casual Guy's once upon a time. I was over at CG's on NYE day (we both had the day off) and I noticed his dog sitter girl (who is 30 something?) was texting him about plans for the next day. I ignored it, but asked why he was acting all squirrelly again. He gets really uncomfortable when I call him out on that. After a little jousting, I finally told him who I had been seeing for the past 3 months, and when he found out he was really surprised. He seemed to enjoy the idea that I was dating a friend of his. I'll call him RC from now on. I didn't elaborate on it, but mentioned I had plans with New guy for NYE. At midnight on NYE, CG texted me, which I found odd. It was as if he wanted to get my attention knowing I was out on a date with RC.

The next time we got together, his car had broken down and I went to pick him up for our meeting, the first thing he asked me was How's RC?! I pretended not to hear, and asked him which street to turn down. He didn't mention it again.

The following week when I was there, the first thing he asked me was, "How's RC? I meant to call him and catch up!" I pretended not to hear the question and said, "I sent you some notes about the timeline, did you read them?" He didn't mention it again.

Meanwhile, RC and I live kind of far apart and winter has arrived. This makes visiting each other very challenging. I like him ok, he's very nice and is not playing any games with me, but he's starting to get frustrated because I'm not getting very amorous with him. I can't. He hasn't earned it yet. We are still getting together here and there, but nothing much. I have other suitors on the back burner, and one is so clingy and annoying, I'm going to cut him loose. I have to find the guy who gives me the right balance of attention. When they are too attentive, it's weird and annoying. When they neglect you, it triggers insecurity or indifference. I'm not really in any hurry to get involved.

Today, CG and I had to plan a meeting and in the conversation (phone - I don't text him), he once again brought up VC in context with some stock market idea, and I said, "I think he mentioned that." That's all. I do think it's funny.

Mirror - what do you think of CG bringing up VC all the time? You've been following this saga for months. What is his deal?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Loretta,
"Mirror - what do you think of CG bringing up VC all the time? You've been following this saga for months. What is his deal?"

Well, generally speaking, when someone keeps repeating a particular topic - it usually signals they have issue with it in some manner. Meaning, it's either a topic that annoys them, that they're angry about, that they're insecure over, that they're curious about, etc. In some way - there's an issue of some sort.

Now whether it's general curiosity, annoyance, anger or insecurity (competitiveness), that's hard to tell at this moment. But there's obviously something behind it that keeps it top-of-mind for him.

This part is a bit troubling however, "How's RC? I meant to call him and catch up!"

I highly doubt he's truly interested in catching up. If that were the case, he'd have made a telephone call a long time ago. I suspect the only thing he really wants to "catch up" on is the backstory to how all this happened between you and RC, and possibly comparison of notes - he may start to pry. Even worse, he may start trouble. He may tell RC stories that aren't flattering or that are half truths. He may attempt to undermine this relationship in some small way. I'm not saying that's what he'll do, but I am saying it's suspicious that all of a sudden, he now has a desire to "catch up" with this man. Situations like this strike me more as "stir up" - he says he wants to catch up, but it may end up that he stirs up a bunch of trouble instead.

Insecure individuals tend to behave like this. Their issues cause problems when it comes to their ability to develop healthy relationships, and when they hear of an ex or someone they've dated moving on and possibly entering into one. . .they can't help but work their way in their to somehow attempt to undermine the situation.

Because if they're successful at that, it makes them feel better about themselves.

It makes them feel superior to the new individual. Like, "Ha! I'm the better man. See, I knew she couldn't really move on and away from me." And it's generally all about their insecurities and proving themselves ultimately more valuable than the new guy. It's not about them truly wanting a relationship, they're not capable of that. It's about issues of pride and ego. It's about them "winning" - which ultimately helps them to feel better about themselves and more superior than the new individual.

I sense he may be toying with the idea of involving himself. And whether he'd admit this or not, the end result could be that this is simply another tool, another opportunity, for this man to exercise his ego in an attempt to make him feel better about himself by trying to prove he's superior to this other man. A man whom I imagine there was already a bit of existing secret competition between if they were truly close friends at one time.

permalosa said...

@Loretta: Thanks so much for your comment! I would still love to hear anything that Mirror might have to say as well. I felt like until September he was quite available and that the divorce was going like it should. He was consistently in contact (although I did not get as many phone calls as I would like), he was always in touch about when he was coming to visit and was texting regularly. It was weird how things intensified over the summer, but then something changed in September. I felt things were not matching but does it have to be for the reason that he was deceiving me? I do have a strange feeling that he will be resurfacing and I'm not sure what to do when that happens. He seemed to really like me when we were together, and when we broke it off (I did not beg or whine, I just said "OK - it doesn't seem like there is anything more that you can do.") he responded "I am not f-ing OK with this!" I know his hands are not tied no matter what his circumstances -- he could have reassured me in so many ways. But does it have to mean that he was lying to me? Even though Loretta says this is by the book, I have trouble deciphering his behavior. 8 months is not a short time for him to pursue me cross-country and then into another country... Is there no possibility that Sept.-Dec. *was* just a fluke, like he says, due to the high pressures of his job and a divorce? I'm sorry if I sound 'hard-headed' about my situation -- I just tried so hard to take it slow and suss out what was really going on : ( I talked to friends along every step of the way : ( From February to June we went as slow as molasses, just spending time together and hanging out, and no relationship talk, and not rushing anything physical. That seemed like such a promising start. And then him coming to visit me. Over the summer he asked me if I was interested in having a family (!) which was odd (for many reasons: our age, etc.), and he brought it up. It just seemed like we were really starting things off on the right foot. I do wonder if in the Fall he just felt in over his head, which was what he was communicating to me, with regards to all the demands in his life. He never ever spoke of breaking it off with me, he just seemed to be asking me to be patient -- but that was hard towards the end when I felt that things were really stalled out and he was not sharing details of his life with me. Rather than ask him/keep talking, I did just step away, by not going to his town for that visit. When I told him of my decision, that is when he said that he felt like things felt a little sideways, because of his life circumstances and the effect that they were having on our relationship -- and when he told me that he couldn't seem them getting immediately better, it was me who said that I did not want to be in a situation where he did not have time for the relationship... Is it not possible that the guy really is just in over his head with a divorce and a kid and his high-pressured job where he has to travel every week? I mean: I know the next question is, does a person like this really want/need a real relationship? If his life is that complicated... But we really hit it off and we had some past in common, so to me it seemed at first that he was investing in developing a relationship with me, before things hit a snag in September. Thanks Loretta, for shedding some light with your opinion that this is a textbook situation. Does anyone have any other perspective? I will probably hear from this guy again and want to have my head screwed on straighter than it is now. Thank You So Much.

CapriconBeautie said...

Hi MOA,

I do not know why i did not find this site 2 weeks ago. There is this guy i met at work. I have had the longest crush on how forever but i never spoke with him or anything. One of ma colleagues knows him and he travelled out of the country for work but comes back a lot. A few months ago she handed me the phone and told me someone wanted to speak to me and it was him. I played it cool and he said he would call me. He did and kept in touch and was super sweet to me.He would call me when he was on holiday or in another country. He was on me like crazy so i thought damnnn that's my MAN!!! He came back for work for a few weeks and we hung out over the weekend. I was going to go to his country on holiday but also to spend time with him but he had to come back for work and i was dissapointed but he said he would make it fun and we would do a lot of things together. We work in the same company and i know that work has been REAAALLY hectic at the office but i have only spent time with him twice during his one month trip. He closes super late hours so i tried to cut him some slack,(YES we did have sex on both occasions) .
-When i call he doesn't pick up. He might call back sometimes or send a text. Infact he has virtually turned me to a "missed call girl".
-When we make plans he cancels last mins and says he is still at the office.
-I once tried to see him after work and told him i would come over to see him after work. I called he didn't pick up. I honestly didn't think i was looking crazy. BOYYYYY if i knew then what i know now.
-He missed my birthday dinner because he was at work and yes he was at work for a fact but i felt he could have tried to make some effort.
-I told him i was not happy with his behaviour and his disregard for me and he said 'its not what you think im sorry u feel this way babe"
-He has not initiated contact or said for us to spend time together.
-The last thing he did last week was not respond to my whatsapp message for three days straight"

I have not reached out to him and have initiated no contact method. This website has made me so strong and i DARE any man to try any crap with me anymore. The truth is we know the right thing to do but its just scary to do. If he walks away i am fine with this as i do not care about anyone's feelings but mine right now and i have always being a very strong and indepemdent last but when it comes to a man i like i forget all that and want to be super sweet and caring and understanding. I will always come here to re-read your posts anytime i feel myself slipping!!!

Gem50 said...

@Permalosa,
I read your posts the other day and my thought was similar to Loretta's, but different. I thought, "No matter the income level, or class in society, it seems the behavior (you described from guy) is the same."

Where Loretta sees the similarities coming from the same playbook, I see the similarities coming from human experiences. Each one of us is having a human experience, including the men we get involved with.

Ms. Mirror is amazing at identifying and helping us understand the possibilities of people's motivations, how to see poor behavior early, and how to prepare for people's next "move."

You've asked for other's comments as well, so I'll share what I've heard from you dear and what your post has me thinking. I hear you hurting and wanting answers to understand this man's behavior. Hurting is normal when someone hurts us. We should hurt when someone hurts us. If we didn't feel hurt, we also could not feel joy (or any other adjective you want to use opposite of hurt)

When we are hurt, we need to take care of ourselves. Us. You. Me. We. We need to tend to ourselves to heal. I understand you thought you did everything right and want to understand what happened so that you can catch the warning signs you might have missed, but dear, this relationship consisted of two people. Two independent people living their independent lives, coming together, sharing and departing, coming together, etc. Until people open themselves to share the reasons for their actions with honesty, we may never know the true reason anyone does anything. Thus, our only option is to continue to look and move forward.

It is my guess this man will come back. Until he does, you need to take care of yourself first. You.

Ms. Mirror has repeated in several articles tools for taking care of ourselves and the reasons why we need to do it.

I am sorry you are hurting. People suck sometimes. People lie sometimes. People get stuck in their own shit sometimes, and other's are hurt by them. But we are all having human experiences and, hopefully, if not at the time, eventually, we see these experiences as lessons or tribulations that was needed in order for us to continue our growth.

I apologize if this isn't giving you a clear answer. Hold on to yourself tight. Do something - a lot of things - nice for yourself. Breath and carry on and watch.

Hugs to you.

loretta said...

Hi Mirror - thank you for your interesting and insightful response (as usual!) I would normally agree with you on all counts, and with your speculation, except for the fact that CG and I have been working on something really serious and important to both of us, that it eclipses any personal issues he may have with my dating a former colleague/friend. It's kind of weird and uncomfortable for him, and I find it totally amusing. I am like the cat that swallowed the canary, since I never give him a single morsel of information. He has no idea what's going on, only that I am seeing his old partner/friend. What were the odds of that happening?!

You said: "I highly doubt he's truly interested in catching up." That made me laugh. No! Of course not! He's terrible, the WORST, at keeping in touch with people. Heck, he doesn't even keep in touch with the people in his present life, let alone past friends. It's a bluff. If he were to ever call RC, it would be so awkward for him. I don't know the depth of their relationship, but I know RC was responsible for many good things in CG's life, and could be credited for CG having a decent livelihood right now. RC is like me in that he did a lot to help CG succeed despite his myriad of personality problems and alcoholism.

You said: "He may tell RC stories that aren't flattering or that are half truths." Now this, he would not do. He is extremely private (secretive, even) and would never say anything about our relationship beyond that we are writing partners. He would not kiss and tell, nor would he pry. He would never jeopardize his relationship with me, knowing full well anything he said to RC could get back to me, and it would constitute a betrayal of my trust.

It's more likely that if he called RC, RC would jokingly say, "I'm stealing your girl." This would be a little rivalry between them. RC would probably love the idea of stealing me from CG, but I don't belong to CG (so you can't steal me), and I don't really know if I want to get serious about RC. So far, no.

With CG, the simplest explanations are always the most likely: he is jealous. He is curious, since this is someone he knows (even better than I do), and it is someone he probably can't picture me with at all.

I will continue to ignore any inquiries he makes into RC, and if he or RC have to talk (for work reasons in the future, which could happen), I'll let them duke it out - metaphorically. Meanwhile, he will get zip, zero, nada from me. That makes it much more fun and drives him nuts. (He deserves that!) He's like a little old lady that thrives on the gossip. Oh well!

Anonymous said...

@CapricornBeautie- Your story is similar to mine. The guy I was seeing was very attentive at first and things seemed promising. but then he flaked on me. I would send text messages and he would respond to some and ignore others (which only made me send MORE messages). I would call him and get his voice mail. he would not call me back. When I would ask him what the deal was, his (lame) excuse was that he was always BUSY (yeah, sure). So I implemented no contact on him and boy is it empowering. He's getting a taste of his own medicine and he's not liking it so much. It's throwing him completely off center. so much so, that he's circled back a couple of times to "test the waters". After about three months of no contact, I sent him a text message saying I hoped everything was working out for him the way he wanted (that's another story). He jumped on my text lightening fast and responded by asking me how I've been. I've not answered that text. As MOA says, He needs to stop and think about what he's done and how poorly he treated me. He was really mean and I KNOW I did not deserve that--I was nothing but nice to him and supportive of him and his family. So no contact has certainly been my best friend these past few months. I love it.

CapriconBeautie said...

Hi MOA, (update)

So this dude sends me a message after the fourth day and says "I CANT BELIEVE I AM JUST SEEING YOUR MESSAGE.I TRIED TO SAY HELLO TO YOU ON THE GROUND FLOOR BUT YOU LOOKED AWAY. I HAVE BEEN WANTING TO COME CHECK UP ON U BUT WORK HAS BEEN GETTING IN THE WAY" Hmmmmmmmm. No Apology!TALK TALK TALK!!Now even accusing me even tho i did see him and did look away! Hell Im not going to notice u when u have not read/responded to my message.I was tempted to reply but i will leave it unread for three days before i respond. Now i am a little confused as to what to respond. Pls help me out here. I was also in a meeting today (JAN 22ND) and i saw him come to my floor and he was peeping into my office looking for me and he did not see me so he said hello to a few other people i know he is not really close to.Guess to while away time. I thought he had left so i came out of the meeting room and BAM!! I see him walking out with another colleague. He tried to get my attention with his eyes but i walked past him and did not act like i even noticed him!! I was so proud of myself but i was going crazy inside. I have never done this before and it felt so empowering. NOW HE DEFINITELY KNOWS SOMETHING IS WRONG!! The funny part is he came to look for me but he did not call me and when he left he still did not call. I have not responded to his message and i will not respond till sunday morning. MOA plssss tell me what to do to win this and get him to sit up. I really like this guy and dont want to scare him off but show him i am not one to be messed with. Thank U!!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@CapriconBeautie,
"No Apology! TALK TALK TALK!"

His ACTIONS (or lack thereof) are also saying something to you:

- When i call he doesn't pick up. He has virtually turned me to a "missed call girl".
- When we make plans he cancels last minute.
- I once tried to see him after work and told him i would come over to see him after work. I called he didn't pick up.
- He missed my birthday dinner because he was at work.
- I told him i was not happy with his behaviour and his disregard for me and he said 'its not what you think im sorry u feel this way babe."
- He has not initiated contact or said for us to spend time together.
- Last week he did not respond to my whatsapp message for three days straight."

When it comes to dating, in the very early stages, you have to disregard and ignore what's being SAID - and focus on the man's ACTIONS for the truth. Regardless of what comes out of his mouth, his actions tell the true tale.

And if there are no actions taken by the man, that's also telling you something :-(

"Now i am a little confused as to what to respond. Pls help me out here. [He text] "I CANT BELIEVE I AM JUST SEEING YOUR MESSAGE.I TRIED TO SAY HELLO TO YOU ON THE GROUND FLOOR BUT YOU LOOKED AWAY. I HAVE BEEN WANTING TO COME CHECK UP ON U BUT WORK HAS BEEN GETTING IN THE WAY"

There's no question to answer, his text is a statement and nothing more. Therefore, no response is necessary.

Additionally, let's not forget that your commenting on an article titled "When, Why and How to Use No Contact." ;-) Remember the words in your last comment and stick to them. You'll feel much better and more confident if you do "I DARE any man to try any crap with me anymore. The truth is we know the right thing to do but its just scary to do."

"plssss tell me what to do to win this and get him to sit up. I really like this guy and dont want to scare him off but show him i am not one to be messed with."

Unfortunately, you can't make someone care for you, love you, or want to be with you. You can't control others, you can only control your reaction to them. And while you may not want to scare him off, the truth is, if his actions (or lack thereof) indicate that this may not be the RIGHT man for you, or indicate he's a man who is not capable of fulfilling your emotional needs and making you happy. . .then scaring him off is the wise thing to do.

Otherwise, you may waste a lot of time, energy, mind space, and emotions on a man that's only half-interested, or simply interested in hooking up (sex) and nothing more, that eventually disappears on YOU.

So as women, it's very important that we "filter" and "qualify" men prior to "investing" in them emotionally. Is this man qualified to date you? Has he proved he's genuinely interested in his actions? Has he proved that he's WILLING to go out of his way to make you happy? If the answers to those questions are "no" - then he's disqualified and it's time to move on :-(

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

This may sound harsh - but that's the reality. You either settle for less than you deserve and sacrifice yourself and your own happiness to make someone else happy -- OR you don't bother worrying about making any sacrifices for a man that isn't sacrificing for you and you worry about nothing but your own happiness instead. . .and you spare yourself from getting hurt.

As women, if we do not "filter" in this way and instead we overlook, dismiss, or make excuses for a man's behavior. . .we, ourselves, wilingly walk right into situations with "half-interested" men (or men simply seeking sex and nothing more) -- and we get hurt.

At this point, this man's actions (and lack thereof) are signaling that he's only half-interested unfortunately. He may be interested in hooking up for sex from time to time, but it doesn't appear he's interested in anything more than that regretfully :-( Men who are genuinely interested in a woman, or genuinely interested in seeking out a committed relationship, take action. They take the lead and they initiate calls, texts, dates, time spent together, etc. And they do these things consistently, not sporadically from time to time when it's convenient for them.

If a woman has had sex with a man and the man does nothing afterwards but hit her up sporadically afterwards (hookup), chances are that he's a half-interested man seeking sex from time to time and nothing more. That behavior is not the behavior of a man genuinely interested in getting to know a woman better or a man that's genuinely interested in a committed relationship. Genuinely interested men increase the speed and pace of the relationship slowly over time - they take actions that slowly "build" towards something (a relationship).

As well, it's important to remember -- when casually dating (no commitment), you can't expect relationship type communication (commitment). When the man has not yet asked the woman for a committment, the woman cannot expect regular, consistent (committed) communication from the man -- because he has not agreed to, or made any commitments, to do so. So when casually dating, you cannot expect regular phone calls. You can't expect the man to keep in touch with any regularity. You can't expect him to recognize holidays, birthdays, special occasions, etc. While that would be nice and would indicate the man is serious about the woman, the truth is that type of behavior is the behavior of couples - those who have made commitments to one another. So when a man has not asked you, or made any committments to you, it's important to keep your expectations in line with that. As women, we tend to set ourselves up for disappointment by not recognizing the difference between the two - casual dating and committed relationships.

So we have to very mindful of not projecting expectations onto another that they themselves have not committed to.

Because if we do that, we get hurt. When we expect more than the situation itself agrees to, all we do is set ourselves up to be disappointed by the outcome :-(

Right now, this situation appears to be a casual dating situation. He has not asked for a commitment, nor has he agreed to any. As a result, you can't expect him to stay in touch regularly, you can't expect to hear from him consistently, you can't expect birthday recognitions (even though it would be nice), and you can't expect him not to continue dating others. However on the same token, you are not required to do any of these things either. You are not required to stay in touch, you are not reguired to check in regularly, you are not required to do anything for special occasions, and you are not required to commit yourself to this man.

Truth be told - YOU are not required to DO anything here.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

All you have to do is continue living your life and moving forward with it. If this man wants you, he knows exactly where - and how - to find you, and HE will seek YOU out. If that doesn't happen, then that tells you something - it frees you up to continue moving past him.

When dating -- doing NOTHING is actually doing SOMETHING.

And this works both ways. When a man does nothing, it actually tells the woman something. It tells her that the man isn't serious or seeking a commitment from her. And when a woman does nothing, she actually receives clarification from the man on where she stands with him. Because if he seeks her out regularly, then she knows he's serious. If he does nothing, then she knows he's not.

Either way you have your answer.

So I'd suggest sitting tight, taking no action, providing no response - and putting him to the test. Is he serious or not? Is he interested or not? Will he ask you out again or not?

His next few moves, or lack thereof, will answer those questions for you ;-)

permalosa said...

@Gem50: Thank you so much for your kind response. I have been reading these pages for several weeks now and have followed your story on other threads. It seems like it is a learning process for us all and the solidarity we women can show to each other in this process is really empowering. @Gem50 I appreciate the generosity/ compassion of what you say. Very very helpful.

My backstory here: tomorrow I will be 42. I divorced when I was 32 after 12 years of marriage. I have spent 10 years 'learning how to date' and I'm still not sure if I have learned the lessons well. That's what you hear, Gem50, when you hear me wanting to do everything the right way... I have made so many of these mistakes in the last 10 years that I want to see where I might still be 'messing up'! But you are right: it always takes 2.

I do wish I had found this blog sooner! Between not finding the right person(s), or finding a person and getting too excited... I feel like it somehow gets harder, not easier, as time goes on. (Boo boo boo to that thought.) My life is full in so many ways, but I did hope to find another partnership (eventually) after my divorce. I am surprised that it has been so difficult. It seems like some of it is the age (in society) in which we are dating. Another part of it, I wondered if it was *my* age, but reading this blog, these stories are happening to females in all age groups. I am determined to stay positive and to keep learning. It is all a journey.

@MOA: Maybe you prefer not to respond to my situation because the guy is married? I read yesterday you say that in some thread that you don't bother responding to us if the man is married : ( In this case I have proof that he is in the process of divorcing... (although I guess you can't really really know unless you ask to see the papers lol).

permalosa said...

Tomorrow will be the 20th-or-so day of no contact since he wrote me saying "I hope you are well." (wtf does that mean, anyway?!?!?) On some days I miss him so much! But I will not reach out. I was reading MOA's comments to CapricornBeautie and I do have to try to remember: My guy did not always "go out of his way to make me happy." Sometimes I felt like he was not available to do so... I always chalked it up to him "doing the best he could" since I know it's not wise to make a man feel "inadequate." But when I felt that way I could have backed off instead of just sucking it up in so many small ways. I guess I was nervous about producing more distance in what was already a LDR... I didn't want to lose him : ( But at the end of the day, with the way it ended, I was not sure of his feelings for me... If someone really cares for you, they won't let you go!!! They will fight!!! I know MOA has also written about how it is normal for a man to distance... Does that include a breakup, though? Like saying something to the extent of, and I am super-paraphrasing: "I am unable give you more right now than what I am giving you, even though I feel "very sorry" about that." Ugh.

When I said I couldn't accept that (I wanted to be in a relationship with a person who was available), he seemed disappointed - I'm sure that he would have like for things to continue on his terms/status quo! I admit that in the lead-up to that conversation, over the month before, I was 'testing' him a bit in so many ways... pushing just a little bit harder (saying "I miss you" or "I am excited to see you") and I know that came off as pursuing. But on the other hand... part of me just wanted to know : ( I felt like I couldn't just wait wait wait for a lost cause. NOW I know I could have stepped way way way back and explored other options. I got kind of hung up too because we'd had the exclusivity talk back in August, and it made me nervous to tell him in November/December that I was taking a step back to explore other options. I didn't feel right about dating other people *without* telling him, but telling him I wanted to date others also felt WEIRD (because the truth is, I would have only been dating others to regain my power... I was feeling love for him so had *NO* interest in dating others.) So I got stuck, right there... I felt I should have been dating other people when I felt him distancing/needing more space, but wasn't sure how to navigate that after we'd had the Talk.

In the meantime. I am moving on. I am living my life just like everybody says. I've gotten my new haircut : ) and mani/pedi : ) and this month am returning to my working out and all of the other things that make me feel more like me. I am going out with friends and such. I am not very psyched about dating, though. Online dating makes me cringe, and believe me, I've done it. One of the things I liked so much about this guy was that it happened 'organically', with him pursuing me and with us having a shared past, however small (common friend(s), and having met a few times back in college!). That alone was different, than all these guys that I don't know from Adam, and who come and go, hot and cold. Too bad it was LDR. Too bad I don't know what is really going on with him. I wanted this story to be different than the others. I would love to hear MOA's impressions too (a small birthday gift?) of this guy's story with me. Thank you again to those who have responded. I will try to share the love by responding more to others on this blog if I ever feel like I have something useful to say, as Loretta and Gem50's comments have already been very helpful to me in the healing process.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Permalosa,
"@MOA: Maybe you prefer not to respond to my situation because the guy is married? I read yesterday you say that in some thread that you don't bother responding to us if the man is married"

It's not that dear, it was simply the fact that your direct questions to me are questions I can't really answer:

"Does it seem like he might resurface? And if so, is this even worth giving a second shot?"

Will he resurface? Probably. Is it worth a second chance? Only you can decide that for yourself. I really can't assist there, short of providing the knowledge I've learned here on this site.

However, in your original comment you stated that you had decided, and informed him, that you're not interested in a long distance relationship.

If that's the case - you've already answered your own question ;-)

If it were me, and I decided I'm not interested in a LDR, I would not put any more energy or effort into a situation that I've already decided will not make me happy anyway, ya' know?

loretta said...

Hello all - very amusing and empowering update for anyone following the saga. As is his habit, CG started acting like a passive-aggressive 10 year old again. It always seems to happen when something important is going on with our project (and prior, with my getting too close to him). We were supposed to have a meeting on Thursday evening to review the changes we need to make in our script. Before the meeting, I spent many hours writing 10 pages of suggested changes (and new scene ideas, cutting other things), and did some new research. We also spoke several times over the phone about what we were planning to do. The meeting was going to be very intense and difficult, but that's just the process you go through when you are working on a creative project. I was looking forward to it. I sent him the notes on Monday, but before I did, I said, "I'm not going to send you my notes if you aren't going to read them." He has a habit of not reading what I send him until I get there; which means I have to read them to him and start from scratch. He doesn't prepare, and hasn't given the ideas any thought. He said, "Send me the notes, I'll review and we'll discuss." So I sent him the notes. Tuesday night I checked with him about an email we got from one of our contacts, and he was out drinking watching SNL with friends. I texted him I would respond to the email. Wednesday he called about it, and I asked him did he read my notes? He said he hadn't but would. Thursday I called him at 3 pm to verify the time we were to meet, asked him if he had read my notes. He still hadn't. I said, "If you haven't read them by the time I get there, I will turn around and leave." A half hour later he texted to tell me he had to pick up his son and couldn't meet. I texted back, "Fine. Until show me you are ready to take this seriously, I won't spend any more time or angst on it."

At 1 am he sent me an email with a link to a video regarding a movie that was made about a true story (like our script). I didn't respond. After consulting with my close friends, they advised me that CG is punishing me, because I am seeing a friend of his (and very casually, but I tell him nothing). He's punishing me by blowing off the terms I set with him in early December. Fine. Meanwhile, I am working on this without him. I will not present any more material to him or meet with him until he starts to act in a professional way.

I do find it amusing, however, that he is so jealous that he's acting like a child. Mirror already predicted this back when I told her I was going to keep working with him after we broke off the romance. He got very upset last week when I told him I was thinking of scrapping the project (which would mean scrapping him, as well).

loretta said...

CONT.

Meanwhile, RC, the guy I've been seeing casually since October (and who would probably like it to be more serious, but he's not doing enough to earn that yet), texted me a few times and called a few times this week, but made no firm plans. He's pretty lame in that area. I am cool and nice, but I'm not volunteering to do any major work - that is, drive to Siberia to see him (joke, but he lives in a very snowy part of town), or make plans. He called Friday evening to ask if I wanted to meet him and his friend at the casino downtown, to give them luck (because I have really good luck at the casino), and then drive them back to Siberia so they could drink. I said, "wow. what an offer." He laughed, said he wanted me to come home with him, and that this way I could drive. I said, "I don't know about that." A little later he texted me from the casino and said he was downtown and was I coming? I texted back: I am not your lucky charm or your designated driver.

A little later he called. I let it roll. He left a message apologizing for implying that I was their designated driver, and if I wanted to come downtown he'd buy me dinner and would love to see me. I responded via text about an hour later saying it was too crowded downtown with all the events, and too cold. Sorry.

Today he texted me one sentence about the weather. Then later about him having a flat tire and a donut spare and couldn't drive very far. I texted back, no, you can't drive far with that. I didn't volunteer to drive over there. I didn't call him. He knows he is screwing this up. And I am standing my ground. If he can't figure out how to make plans in advance or give me a good reason to visit him 45 minutes away in the winter, he will not see me. I have lots of other things to do.

Ladies, you may not like to play it this way, if it means you're home on a Saturday night, but I guarantee you will feel like a million dollars, as opposed to feeling like a cheap pair of flip flops. I have not slept with this guy and it's been 3 months. He ain't gettin nuttin from me until he demonstrates that he knows how to court a lovely woman like me. He may never improve - and you know what? I won't be upset. I have not attached to it at all. Meanwhile, CG is imagining me with his old friend and is coming to terms with losing me. He may even lose me as a writing partner if he doesn't shape up. You have ALL the power, ladies! RC is jealous of CG because I spend so much time with him (and we have a romantic history), and CG is jealous of RC because now he has lost all his mojo with me and I treat him like a co-worker that I have to manage all the time. It's not much fun for him anymore. And who knows what he's imagining. Hilarious. I might have to write a movie about it. LOL

permalosa said...

@MOA, it is true. I did not want to be in an LDR. My last significant relationship, 3 years ago, was an LDR. We made it for 2 years but at the end of the day, it was still an LDR, and so we broke up. You just can't go on like that forever, you know? So I said "no more" for the future. I tried dating here for 3 years and not much compatibility with those efforts. And then this guy shows up. I told him that I didn't want an LDR (certainly had not been looking for one!) but then I gave him a chance, as he made those trips to see me while I was abroad, having planted the idea that I would only do LDR for so long. (That's the problem with LDR. Makes it difficult for it develop organically, without pressure.)

Thank you for reminding me of what I told him. It was the original problem, the original stipulation (I told him what I wanted and even then I was pressuring, because I was saying, I will only go so far with this if we remain in two different places.) He works here pretty regularly, and I think (IF he had a divorce) that he could live here (IF he wanted to) but them there's a lot of IFs. His Mom used to live here and he always told me he liked the city and that a lot work is developing for him here, which is true. Thank you for weighing in. I'll keep you gals posted if there is anything to post you on. But really, today's my birthday, and if there were a day for him to break our 20-day silence, this would be it, and still, not a peep. Not that I could respond to him, anyway, since I'm devoted to the NC for 30-60 days. But that speaks volumes, I'd say. It makes me think again that he was just not that into me. Ugh. So sad to feel that today. Thank you for responding.

permalosa said...

Does anybody care to comment on what it *'means'* if you don't hear from a guy for 30 days? Doesn't that mean that it's really truly over or that he definitively does not care about you? If a guy doesn't write you for 30 days of NC, what would be the (positive) purpose of him ever writing you again? Do they ever resurface after 30 days for anything positive (meaning, anything other than sex or an ego stroke?)? Do they ever resurface after 30 days with a sincere desire to be with you again? Have you guys ever seen a case when there's a *good* reason that he has not contacted you for 30 days (other than that "he is just not that into you"?) I am trying-trying-trying to move on. That's the point, I know, of the NC... (*not* to be waiting to hear from him.) But every day that I don't hear from him I still wake up with an ache in the pit of my stomach. It really really bothered me that I heard CRICKETS from him on my birthday 3 days ago. So painful! 8 months together LDR, then we break up over the phone, and now nothing... he must have found someone else. I can think of no *good* reason not to contact me for 30 days other than not ever wanting to be with me again.

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone! My original post was December 10, 2015 at 10:44 PM. This is an update on my current situation.

So, I lost count on how long I was doing NC because it was so long. I think it was the 9 week mark before he contacted me! I did not say anything to him during the NC period. The last time we talked was the in-person break-up. I lived my life, stayed active, and then considered dating again. Anyway, a week before he contacted me, my friend introduced me to this other guy and we really hit it off! We took things slow and have been on 2 amazing dates so far. Just when I've moved on is when HE (the guy who broke up with me) contacts me again. He asked me how things were going in my life and I didn't respond. I responded that evening and told him things were great and I did not ask about him. He stopped talking to me and I didn't hear from him until a couple of days later. He's been starting conversations with me and I haven't been answering or giving him brief responses. I'm not sure if I want to meet up with him again if he asks. I never thought I would get to this point because it was SO hard in the beginning for me after the break. I'm really enjoying this new guy and want to see where things go with him. The NC period really helped me to see that the original guy isn't worth my stress and might not be a good partner in the long run. Funny how that works.

My story shows that the NC does work and I thought my situation was hopeless because we weren't in a committed relationship and only had a few amazing dates. In the beginning of NC, I was doing it to get him back. But, after a few weeks, I was doing it for me and I felt SO much better and started to move on. Then, out of nowhere he contacted me. It's not always going to get someone to contact you again, but it helps you detach from that person emotionally and helps you move on, which is just as good (or even better in some cases).

So, to all of you employing the NC right now, keep doing it! But, make sure it's for you!

Thanks MOA, your advice was really helpful!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Permalosa,
"Does anybody care to comment on what it *'means'* if you don't hear from a guy for 30 days?"

It doesn't mean much. Because many show up 2 months, 3 months, 6 months or even a year or more later. Additionally, no contact is really for the woman even more so than the man. It's more about the woman helping herself to emotionally detach, more so than it is to attempt to lure a man back.

"Doesn't that mean that it's really truly over or that he definitively does not care about you?"

In some cases yes, in others no. It all depends on the individual, the man, and his level of interest (genuine or half-interested).

"If a guy doesn't write you for 30 days of NC, what would be the (positive) purpose of him ever writing you again?"

Not quite sure I understand the question. Because it implies that only positive action can be taken within 30 days and anything thereafter is not positive.

"Have you guys ever seen a case when there's a *good* reason that he has not contacted you for 30 days (other than that "he is just not that into you"?"

Not that I can remember.

"Do they ever resurface after 30 days for anything positive, meaning, anything other than sex or an ego stroke? Do they ever resurface after 30 days with a sincere desire to be with you again?"

Truthfully - no, not from what I've seen here in the hundreds if not thousands of stories shared on this site. And men who disappear are generally not men seeking a commitment from the woman. If they were serious about the woman, they wouldn't have disappeared and risked the relationship in the first place :-(

I wrote a piece here years back: http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

And on that piece, you will see 5,000 comments. Literally thousands of women sharing stories of disappearing men. Disappearing men coming and going, coming and going. And in all the years of maintaining the thread on that article and responding to stories shared there, etc. -- in those thousands of stories of disappearing men, there was NOT ONE single happy ending :-(

Not one.

Disappearing men generally don't return to live happily ever after.

They may return for a few more romps in the hay (sex), or for an ego boost, or for entertainment to play more mind games, or because they're "just bored" (I've heard man men say this). . .but they generally do not return to become one half of a committed relationship with the woman.

Their returns are brief - and then they disappear again.

That's the pattern I've seen from the stories shared on this site over the years. As a result, I felt compelled to follow that piece up with this one a couple of years later:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/11/dating-a-disappearing-man.html

Bottom line - if you permit a disappearing man to return to your life, he will return only to disappoint you again and again and again, as many times as you'll permit him to. And your situation with him will be on again, off again, on again, off again.

"When people walk away from you - LET THEM WALK." ~ T.D. Jakes

loretta said...

Hi Everyone. First, I want to recommend this post by Mirror if you have not already read it (and memorized it! Haha)

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

I had to re-read it for the umpteenth time today, because it always bolsters my resolve to give Casual Guy (and anyone else in the future) the consequences of his continual, unrepentant disregard and disrespect of me as his colleague (and friend, and sorta ex girlfriend).

After a week of silence on my part, and several anemic middle-of-the-night outreaches by him (he texted me at 1, 2 and 3 am a few nights with idiotic things that required no response), he texted me last night at 2 am saying he would "review the notes" and call me today about the work we have to do. He didn't call me by noon, which is the latest I require a confirmation that he will be available for our Thursday meeting (we meet every Thursday or more if necessary). I finally grew bored with it all and sent him a reply to his drunk text at 2:00 indicating that he would need to present a very persuasive case for me to continue working with him, and that his treatment of me and the project was unacceptable.

Despite Mirror's view that you don't have to feel bad about doing this, I do feel bad that I HAVE to do this, after we have come so far in both projects and I thought we had a very workable situation: I stayed out of his personal life, he stayed out of mine; we had a common objective and shared passion for the work, and he would be reliable, considerate of me, responsible, and afford me the creature comforts (heat, clean space) and be prepared for the meetings.

He has had the notes for 10 days now, and told me on over 10 occasions (via phone, text, email) that he would review them. As of 2 am this morning, he still had not. He seemed concerned he hadn't heard from me and hoped "all is well." followed by a smiley emoticon. He definitely knew I was off the radar again.

So, instead of playing games and going NC with him again, I simply told him he'd have to change the way he operates. I will not budge without first seeing a heartfelt apology and his plans to make things right. Meanwhile, I am working on the changes by myself, and I am still very enthusiastic about the work. I'm very proud of it, and I will see it through.

I hope Mirror is right in that he will - after some time, and after realizing I am not bluffing - set things right for this friendship and our future business relationship. However, it does make me sad to have to get to this point finally. I don't have high hopes for him.

Fire & Water said...

@Loretta,
Thanks for the reminder about that post! Like you, I often go back and re-read and re-re-read Mirror's posts, depending on what I need to hear at the moment :)

Also, I think you are right on in choosing to continue this project alone. As a creative person, I completely understand how hard it is to let go of someone who truly contributes to, inspires and assists your creative process. It's like losing half your engine...at least temporarily. I know you really value his involvement and it sounds (I've read all your updates :)..sorry..I stalk this blog :))like you've given him chance after chance to just be the working partner you appreciate so much. But he can't even do that. He tries hard for awhile and then falls apart again. This probably has a lot to do with where he is in his own life - it sounds like he just can't keep his shiz together. Don' let that hurt you or your project. I think you want him involved, but you don't *need* him involved. You've indicated as much. So this time, go ahead and do it...finish it without him, whatever it requires, whether he apologizes or not. Maybe you can give yourself the mental image of "firing" him - not for him, but for you so that you switch your perspective to one of him not being there to work on it and have the idea of it being 'your' project instead of 'our' project. It may take him a long time to figure out that you're serious because you've been really generous with him in the past in terms of coming back when he tries a little harder. When we really want the best for someone, it can be as hard on us to do what needs to be done to possibly help them as it is for them to experience it. But sometimes pain is the only thing people will listen to. And sometimes they don't listen at all. And that shouldn't stop you. Don't let the quagmire this guy has his life in derail your project, your dream.
I hope my $.02 is helpful. And of course, if it isn't, please disregard it :)
Wishing you the best!
F & W

loretta said...

Thank you F&W for your kind and valuable insight. In order for me to accomplish the rewrite, I had to center myself and call Casual Guy to request a time to pick up the consultant's notes. We paid a script consultant to critique the first draft, and I wanted to see what her notes looked like. We had received an email from her summarizing the issues she found with the script (many of which I don't agree with, but some are good points and I have already made a lot of changes that will make the script better). At first, I did not take this criticism of hers very well, and it made me think I might just scrap the project altogether. Then, I changed my mind, did some research, read a few scripts and redoubled my efforts. Which resulted in those 10 pages of notes I sent CG last week.

Apparently, while I thought CG was much better at taking criticism and disappointment than I, as the days went by, he got more morose about the whole thing, and his way to cope was to avoid it altogether. And the longer he went without dealing with it, the worse it got. He knew I was getting impatient, and then he started dreading dealing with me.

Today, I went over there to get the script. The dog (I gave him) went crazy, of course. (It's hilarious. His dog loves me, because I raised it for 4 months). Anyway, we had a talk, and I told him I was going forward with or without him. He seemed to have his head screwed on, and his house looked like he was trying to get organized again. He had my notes (email) up on his big computer screen, so at least made a show of reading them. He did like my new ideas, we had a very animated and intense conversation and decided what to do next. He scheduled two meetings next week, and seems to be on board again. If I can get through this rewrite without killing him, I think it's going to be a great success. He isn't going to change. He's still going to flake out. He's as predictable as rain, so I just have to expect that and work as hard as I can to accomplish my objectives. I feel a shift in my own feelings about it. I know he was scared of me. That's always good. ;)

Gem50 said...

@Loretta,
Your 1:32am post reminded me of conversations between me and my therapist during the end of my marriage.

My husband was a drinker. He was irresponsible, careless, had issues, and he was young. I countered by being SUPER responsible, SUPER motherly, and, although I too had issues and was young, I worked my ass off to be the grown-up.

An example of a portion of dialogue that became too familiar between me and Nancy went like this:

Me > ... and I told him if he ever did that again, it would be over. (staying out all night for example)

Nancy > What are you going to do when it happens again?

I was totally bewildered by the question, wondering what part SHE didn't understand. It all seemed pretty simple to me: His actions were wrong. I was right to draw the line in the sand. NOW he knows what is "right" to save our family, so he won't do it again.

Me > He won't because I told him what will happen if he does.

Nancy > But what are you going to do when he does?

could not grasp any part of her question.

I can't tell you how many times I went back 2-weeks later for my next appointment and said, "You aren't going to believe this, but he did it again!"

Nancy did believe it, because she knew it would happen again. It was me that didn't understand. I was working off of my own understanding of life and values and changes I would make if given such ultimatums, and I thought everyone thought the same way.

It took awhile, and ALOT of's, "You aren't going to believe this," for me to understand it didn't matter what I said to my husband, it didn't matter how many threats I threw at him, anything I did or said simply didn't matter. Nothing I said changed his behavior. NOTHING. Not the threat of losing his family, hurting his children by our divorce, or losing me changed his behavior.

Loretta, what are you going to do when it happens again?

loretta said...

@Gem50,

Oh, it will! Ha! I'm sure of it. The good thing is that I'm not married to CG, nor am I a hostage, nor do I have to live with him or have any romantic expectations of him which makes my relationship much less stressful than it was when I was seeing him romantically. And, of course, this dynamic is really ironic, because I am very familiar with alcoholism, having been in recovery over 20 years, and having been to hundreds of meetings, sponsoring other women, etc. I have a strange understanding of how CG operates, and there's a part of me that wants to rescue him. It's totally natural.

You are so right in that I overcompensate for him, and I'm super responsible, but I am that way with everyone, not only drunks and children. I think the fact that I know how he thinks and what's going on with him mentally, physically and spiritually is how I can cope with his inconsistencies and lack of maturity.

I don't have to work with him at all. It's a choice I made to see this project through. If it wasn't his concept to begin with (say, if it were my set of stories, my original material), I wouldn't feel obligated to work with him at all. Since this first screenplay is based on his work, I can't really abandon him and make any major decisions without him. I could do a lot of work alone on it, and maybe see him once a month to go over the changes. But I want to finish this thing once and for all and cast it to the winds of fate to see if it has a future.

The other two scripts are based on my original material, so I could easily write them alone or with other collaborators. There may be money and legal issues involved if I abandon CG now. I will see this through and manage the best way I can.

It's great to have other distractions in my life, and he is nowhere near the center of it, although the project does occupy too much of my time these days. When it's rewritten again, I will decide how to proceed with anything else without him.

loretta said...

CONT.

And speaking of distractions...Casual Guy DID call RC recently, with the pretense of asking about a stock market thing (they are little investors, nothing big). I met with RC last night and he told me. I was surprised and a bit uncomfortable with the idea.

Of course Casual Guy asked RC about me: were we seeing each other, how were things going, etc. I guess he said nice things about me, but it felt like meddling. Mirror predicted this would happen, too. (She is psychic. haha) I don't think he would have called RC if I had volunteered any information about RC to him, but I have been mum on it all month since I told him about it New Year's Eve.

I mentioned to RC that I would prefer that he not discuss my personal life with CG. I know they are old friends, but keep me out of it. He said, Ok, Sure. He didn't see any harm in it, but I think he probably made our relationship out to be more than it is, to One-Up Casual Guy. That's how men operate. I am no stranger to it. RC thinks I spend too much time with CG and on the movie, especially since I haven't made any money. CG is probably jealous of RC, even though he passed up numerous opportunities to have a real, committed relationship with me. It's all very predictable.

Nevertheless, I will continue to be a sphinx on the topic of my love life. I am not super interested in RC, he doesn't show me nearly enough attention or court me in any way that would reward him with lots of my time (or anything intimate.) And I expressed that to him last night in very clear terms. He got it. Let's see if he acts on it.

I am still playing the field, and there are a couple of new prospects I will explore. I do feel like I'm in the catbird's seat for a change. It's a good feeling! My dating and focusing on other areas of my life (work, sports, art), can only make me more attractive and much less vulnerable to be affected by CG. He can feel the difference, I'm sure. His jealousy and curiosity completely blow his cover: He now wants what he can't have. Typical! Hilarious, really.

Gem50 said...

@ Loretta,
At the end of your 1:32a post you said, "I know he was scared of me. That's always good. ;)"

What are you going to do when he doesn't show up again?

permalosa said...

Hi Mirror! Thanks for your comment from 1/28. Follow up question. In your mind and from your experience: is the "Disappearing" man the same (and all of the things you wrote in that post) as a man who speaks with you and breaks off a LDR because he says his circumstances (divorcing, finances) do not permit him to give you the time/attention he would like to at this time? I was asking for more and he said he was unable to give more due to present circumstances... and that he couldn't give more until circumstances changed. And then I said I can't visit you and "NC, please"... 30 days ago. He has texted me since but no questions, or asking to talk (yet). I don't respond. So does all the same stuff still apply? I am moving on, I promise. But my head is still processing, trying to understand and learn from this crap.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Permalosa,
"is the "Disappearing" man the same as a man who speaks with you and breaks off a LDR because he says his circumstances do not permit him to give you the time/attention he would like to at this time?"

No - a disappearing man is a man who disappears without warning, and without ever telling you why. He simply vanishes.

Fire & Water said...

@Loretta,
I'm glad you found my thoughts valuable :). I have found so many of yours valuable to me that it's nice to be able to return the favor.
"Since this first screenplay is based on his work, I can't really abandon him and make any major decisions without him."
Ok - I get it now..I see where you stand. Legally, you feel like he's enmeshed in this project. So, let me ask you the same thing Gem is asking you: as much effort as you've put in to the project, as much as you believe in it and want to see it through, are you prepared to drop it and walk away? Because if he's tied legally to the project, then that gives him the legal hold to destroy it with his inability to see it through, as much as it gives him the hold on it if it sees any success.
What would happen if you let this project go and focused on those projects you have sole control over?
F & W

loretta said...

Hello F&W - based on copyright law, we jointly own the project. As a partnership, we have 50-50 control, and we make decisions jointly. We don't have one person who gets to decide anything, it has to be a mutual decision.

If I walk away and abandon the project, he will never finish the script. He might send it off to a few agents we know, or find someone to look at it, maybe even some interest in it, but if he did that, I would have the same rights to it. I won't do that, because that would constitute a huge waste of my time. No, I'm going to see it through.

We are pretty close to finalizing this. If he gets flaky again, I will finish it without him and find a producer without him. He would share in anything that resulted from that. We have a writing meeting tonight, and if it's really productive, we will have most of the problems solved.

I told him last week I wasn't going to work on this forever - that we had to finish it and be satisfied with it until someone pays us to do another rewrite!

As far as the other two scripts, those are mine. I don't have to share anything with him unless he contributes a lot more than he has so far. We will address that in future discussions.

Unknown said...

Hello MOA I wish I'd seen you'd site lying ago. My guy if 15 months never got me a Christmas gift. I indicated my disappointment and he got defensive. Told me he intended getting me belated gift!! I backed off. New Year's Eve he messaged to say he'd hurt his back and had only been out once to go to physio and shop, but it was improving. I texted back saying how sorry I was to hear about his back and hoped he was doing his exercises. I decided to do 30 day nc. 9 days in he texted to say he was disappointed that I hadn't offered to visit or help him ( his sore back( and that he'd been through hell. I stupidly broke nc and replied 3 days later by saying had I known it was so bad of course I would have visited. That was 28 days ago. Nothing since. He's twisted this to be all about him. I'm going to extend this no contact. Is that the right thing to do? Fiona

Anonymous said...

@Loretta, @Gem50, @Fire& Water,@Ladies

Hi Ladies

Wow may I join this amazing dialogue. I say amazing because I see major potential here for personal growth.

I’ve held back from commenting to see how this would play out, until I can no longer and it would be a disservice for me not to comment now in the name of sisterhood, personal growth and spiritual evolution.

So what I’m about to say is with the bestest of intentions. I have a policy of if someone comments about my behaviour and it’s with the best of intentions then I metaphorically ‘try the tee-shirt to see if it fits’ – meaning what this person is saying is it me? can I see some truth in it? Is there some value in what they are saying? Could I learn from this (even though I don’t like what they’re saying) the truth does hurt sometimes, it’s a fact of life. So at least try the tee-shirt on, be warned you have to face the truth and practice total self honesty which can be painful and we are pain avoiding creatures, it takes great courage and honesty. Some people go to great lengths to avoid the pain (truth) and be in denial and make excuses (form of denial). Of course if someone comments on your behaviour and it is completely untrue after trying the tee-shirt on then you discard.

But here goes in the name of helping each other grow.

First of all I’d like to comment on Gem’s post, what a fabulous therapist you had back-in–the-day. Such a simple yet powerful question ‘what are you going to do if it happens again?’ I’m not sure if it was a counsellor but this is counselling at its best. Because ultimately it is a very brilliant and clever way to get a client to face the issue and develop their awareness around the issue in order to change. From what I remember you said it worked in the end.
And I see that when you asked Loretta this same question I thought it was quite brilliant, also to offer her this gift of what you’d learnt to help her apply it to her situation.
I can’t seem to find Loretta’s response to ‘what are you going to do if it happens again?’
But I’ve read the response to Fire and Water ‘are you prepared to drop it and walk away?
‘As far as the other two scripts, those are mine. I don't have to share anything with him unless he contributes a lot more than he has so far. We will address that in future discussions’

Forgive me for my directness but why address anything in future discussions? Why do that? If you truthfully really have to finish this project and it's not an excuse to remain attached to him then I’d finish it and let that be the end of your creative partnership.
Because I don’t mean to sound harsh here but it is classic co-dependency and an unhealthy attachment and the creative work that you’re doing with him well it’s just a way to say attached to him basically.
And I think on some level you are refusing to acknowledge this ‘I don't have to share anything with him unless he contributes a lot more than he has so far. We will address that in future discussions’

Anonymous said...

CONT...

If you’re into books a brilliant one for this is ‘Women who love too much’, by Robin Norwood. If you’ve read it read it again, it talks all about this kind of stuff.
And I when I read your comment:
‘And, of course, this dynamic is really ironic, because I am very familiar with alcoholism, having been in recovery over 20 years, and having been to hundreds of meetings, sponsoring other women, etc. I have a strange understanding of how CG operates, and there's a part of me that wants to rescue him. It's totally natural.’

This book sprung to mind!

‘and there's a part of me that wants to rescue him. It's totally natural.’

From what you’re saying you have a need to rescue him and I’m really sorry to say but it’s not natural it is an unhealthy attachment and classic co dependence.
And the need to rescue him is a need to be needed and your needs in this relationship will ultimately trap you.

All this stuff between CG and RG it’s all drama, it’s another way of keeping you attached and entangled in the drama. RG on some level will have picked up on your attachment to CG you’re not free and single energeticaly - you’ve an attachment to CG, therefore you would not get him RG to step up.

And the same goes for the other potential dates, the universe will not bring you a healthy relationship while you have an unhealthy attachment with another. It is not energetically possible.

We’ve all been there, I do understand but it is your willingness now to become truly aware that will be the pivotal point. It’s up to you.

So I’ll leave you with my question ‘does the tee-shirt fit Loretta:)?
Best

Anonymous said...

Hey ladies and MOA,
(Jan 7th 1:50pm) So to follow up, My ex bf (who i met online) broke up with me late October and we still stayed in limbo. I would ask for clarity on us because he would call me often, text everyday as usual, buy me a xmas gift with a note, "Even though we arent together i still want you to know i love you dearly." On Dec 29 he said his heart isn't skipping for anyone except me" He was hot and cold. We last spoke on nye he called told me to hit him up later if i wanted (he said nothing wrong he was optimistic about something he wanted me to see in Feb) but some reason something clicked and I finally did full nc. Starting off the new year without him. Though I still love him and I understand he is stubborn and is used to me coming back within 3 days if he ignored me and being weak. This time I have stuck with it and gained clarity. I've been on a dating site and while on there in mid January I got a message from a user who created a profile and deleted it at 2 am saying "too bad you are far away. Btw my name is *my exes name* (the exact spelling)." The next day, around the same time (2am) I get a message, "Hi baby" from username "I loved you baby." I just thought it was weird. But my mom and friends think it's my ex. Do you think it's him? I feel like its not because he has my number. He could easily text me. Btw hes a Taurus if that makes a difference lol


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous February 8, 8:19AM and all the Ladies,
Very powerful stuff - thank you so very much for contributing to the discussion.

The concept of rescue - ladies, if this sounds like you, take heed to this contributors words. Co-dependency is:

". . .a type of dysfunctional helping relationship where one person supports or enables another person's addiction, poor mental health, immaturity, irresponsibility, or under-achievement."

And I love that you recognize this is with the best of intentions "in the name of sisterhood, personal growth and spiritual evolution."

They don't call them growing pains for nothing. It hurts - bad. And I've given myself more than one black eye along the way LOL.

But you have to look at it like. . .well, like the Phenix for example. The Phenix symbolizes the cycle of death and rebirth, rising from the ashes after destruction to begin again. Experiencing the death of one life in exchange for a rebirth into a new one. Picture your personal growth like that, and picture yourself as the mighty Phenix.

Because seriously - WHO does NOT want to be that badass fiery bird LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Fiona,
"My guy if 15 months never got me a Christmas gift. I indicated my disappointment and he got defensive. Told me he intended getting me belated gift! New Year's Eve he messaged to say he'd hurt his back and had only been out once to go to physio and shop. . . days in he texted to say he was disappointed that I hadn't offered to visit or help him. . .I replied 3 days later by saying had I known it was so bad of course I would have visited."

So - this man doesn't bother to acknowledge you or show appreciation for you by providing a gift at Christmas. . .then he misses New Years Eve with you and doesn't invite you over that night. . .and then you tell him that had you know it was that bad, you'd have visited him?

So basically, you would've been willing to REWARD all of that POOR TREATMENT - with more of your time and attention?

Poor treatment doesn't deserve the reward of more of your time and attention. There are CONSEQUENCES for poor treatment:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

You can't take people for granted and treat them with disregard and then turn around and expect them to be there for you. If you do that and you treat others that way, then you can't expect them to jump through hoops for you.

And as a woman, if you PERMIT poor treatment and you reward it with more of your time and attention - you will only ensure that you get more poor treatment.

"That was 28 days ago. Nothing since. He's twisted this to be all about him. I'm going to extend this no contact. Is that the right thing to do?"

Absolutely. This man doesn't appreciate you. And if he's not going to, trust me, some other man WILL. He sounds very selfish and self-centered. He didn't bother to lift a finger for you, yet he expects you to shower him with attention.

If this man isn't capable, or willing, to fulfill your emotional needs - it's probably time to make a decision about whether or not he's even the right man for you.

In the meantime, stick to the 30 days no contact. Because by the end of it, there's a high likelihood that you may not even want to be with this man. If he isn't capable of making you happy and only causes you anxiety and worry, what's the point, ya' know? Sticking to the no contact for 30 solid days without breaking it or responding to him will help you to emotionally detach from him, so you're in a better place to make a final decision about him without your emotions interfering with your decision making process ;-)


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 9, 10:03 AM,
"But my mom and friends think it's my ex. Do you think it's him? I feel like its not because he has my number. He could easily text me."

I suspect it's him.

Sure, he has your number, but you're missing the point. The point of him doing this is to signal to you that HE KNOWS you've moved on.

Which is a good thing, because he doesn't know what he really wants and until he gets clear on that, he's wasting your time and his. So it's best to separate until he gets himself clear on exactly what it is he wants.

And there's another reason the separation is best. Know why?

Because it appears he's dating online anyway. You met online, so it's not surprising that he'd return to it again as well. And who knows? Maybe that's the entire reason he could never fully commit to you in the first place, ya' know?

He may not have a viewable profile in search. He may have blocked you so you don't see him there. And that would explain why he created a fake profile to communicate with you there in a cryptic manner.

Him contacting you there versus via text or the phone wasn't about talking to you. . .it was about him seeing you there (because he's there too obviously) and seeing that you've moved on.

So he's trying to derail that.

He's trying to derail your progress moving forward and away from him by placing subtle, seemingly unrelated cryptic messages and events on the dating site to derail you and make you feel guilty.

It's an immature move. But I have seen this MANY times, and it happens a LOT on social media. I'm sure just about everyone reading this has witnessed it. Those posts that people make on social media that don't mention any names, but include cryptic references that you just KNOW are MEANT for THAT PERSON to see.

I actually had a ex do that to me on Facebook. At first it was funny. Then it became obnoxious. Then it looked desperate. Then I got bored with it. Then I unfriended him.

Voila' - problem solved LOL ;-)

loretta said...

@New Anonymous above (who recommended "Women Who Love Too Much" - yes, I've read that book, and every other codependent book written, probably. HA! I'm not going to defend my weird relationship with CG, because it's a gypsy curse. I have never had this kind of relationship before - I have never stayed around a guy who was so messed up. I had a 9 month relationship in 2007 with a guy (after a 5 year hiatus from relationships) where I helped him function again. I knew it wouldn't last, but it helped me get back in circulation and lead to lots of nice experiences. He married the next girl he met. It didn't break my heart. Subsequent relationships were with nice men who were much older than I, and eventually the distance was too hard.

It's hard to explain if you are not an addict or a recovering addict to understand the strange bond we have with each other. It's a visceral, hard-wired thing that is difficult to overcome. I have cut CG more slack than anyone in the history of my love life - and I've been single all but 5 years of my life; the vast majority of which I didn't even pursue romantic involvement. I mostly have raised children, worked really hard, started businesses, played in orchestras, wrote books and plays, and played a lot of tennis. LOL

CG is a broken man. You are RIGHT - I do want to feel needed. If I step back, I know I am needed in other areas of my life (my kids, my job is a very service-oriented commitment); however, winning him over somehow became an obsession with me. I eventually - truly - gave that up. Finally.

Now, I am all business. He is trying to make our work environment more pleasant for me. We have had some great sessions lately, and I see a light at the end of the tunnel. At the very best, we may remain friends after this is over. We will have to stay in contact to some extent if we sell this script. But, I don't have to work with him anymore. You are RIGHT.

I'm not an idiot, even though I play one on this site. HAHA

I do believe that if I met someone I could really connect with (and it's possible, and I'm still looking), it would break this gypsy spell. I can let go of CG and put that energy into some other man who can reciprocate. I have rejected dozens of men who were not up to par. Despite the fact that I put up with CG, he is replaceable in my heart.

Thanks for your kind and helpful remarks. I am aware, I am awake, and I am ready for something better.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Moa! Lol Glad I'm not the only one. I think ill stay off online dating lol. I didn't think it was him because i tried after the break up to work it out and he never wanted to hear me talk about were we stood, how to improve, etc.
You're right! I was making sure that i didn't bump into him online. Ironically, he joined the same site we met mid to late Jan. Also, his friend follows me on instagram so im sure she see's everything I post or like.
There was no betrayal or anything. Something just clicked after he called on nye. I went nc and stopped counting. I didn't want to go into the new year accepting crumbs of a relationship. He would say, "I own you. Remember that." "I had hope for you" after he was cold or send a crying african child after i asked for clarity. He'd say, "i know what you want. The title." I felt like the girl from that Geico commercial with the fisherman with bait on a fishing rod. "Oh. You almost had it, you gotta be quicker than that" lol.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Loretta,
"I'm not an idiot, even though I play one on this site. HAHA"

I see. So this site is just fodder for you. You're acting here and playing with us all.

loretta said...

@Mirror: "I see. So this site is just fodder for you. You're acting here and playing with us all."

No, no. It's just a joke - a spoof of that old commercial with Marcus Welby when Robert whatshisname says, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV" and then goes on to endorse some medical thing. I am not playing with anyone here and everything I've told you is true. I may sometimes seem like I'm being obtuse with the ongoing frustration with CG, but in real life, I have a lot more going on than those few hours a week I spend with him. He's not really that big of a focus. So, it may seem I am hopelessly codependent or blind, but I'm not.

I comment here about him, because this site has been so helpful with not only how to deal with him, but other areas of my dating life. You and your community here have saved me all sorts of time and effort. I have learned a lot. Wish we had met 20 years ago!

Gem50 said...

@ Best,
Yes, it was a therapist that asked me that question. Nancy helped change the course of my life and I am forever grateful for/to her. I was 22,a young wife and mother of two toddlers, when I first reached out for help and then spent quite a bit of time learning how to trust another, how to cry, learning I was more than a wife and mother. Then the REAL work happened lol Work that would not have been accomplished at that time without the guidance, support and love of Nancy. So, to any people visiting Ms. Mirror's site who work in the mental health field, I would like to say Cheers! to you (raising my coffee cup) and Thank you :)

@Loretta,
I understand how hard this one simple question is, I've been there. It seems you are avoiding the question; only you know the reason why. From your last comment, consider this, no one has asked you to defend your relationship with CG. I asked you a simple question: What are you going to do when it happens again?

The answer is yours, and could be, "I'm not going to do a damn thing differently." Your choice. By giving your answer you put your cards on the table, and show respect for everyone who has been following and responding to your posts. I also holds you accountable and is a base to work from when you come back to say, "it happened again."

I asked the question for two reasons: 1) I hoped making a plan -- whatever it was -- would help give you some direction, a plan of action to help address it instead of always being on the receiving end of his behavior. 2) We older women here on this site (older in age, experience, time being involved here, etc.) have a valuable gift to share with the younger and newer women coming here. I suspect some of our comments are considered valuable to them and may make an impression on them and some of our words may help them.

Well Loretta my question to you was not handing you a t-shirt to try on as Best did, my question was holding up a light on your behavior. I was concerned that your aggression and game playing with the men you claim to be dating would be seen as "success" by the younger women here. It isn't. And it is polar to what Ms. Mirror teaches.

continued

Gem50 said...

2 of 2 @ Loretta,

I have sat back and read your stuff keeping my thoughts to myself, not believing anything that you posted since you shared something that seemed to go unnoticed: You lie about your age on your dating site. That was a red flag Loretta, and it was worth noticing.

That one red flag signaled many more but I couldn't connect them until Best identified your behavior: drama.

I am not anyone special, I'm just one simple woman trying to make it in this crazy world, and my opinion of your behavior doesn't mean a hill of beans.

So, this comment is for all of the women who have stumbled on to this site as I did many years ago seeking information and finding help, encouragement and love: Ladies, we don't need to chase anyone, badger anyone, make anyone fear us in order to live a good life. Loretta's behavior is not the answer.

The answer is in loving yourself first, taking care of yourself first, and when you do that, well, you will be living your honest life.

I heard someone throw around "To thine own self be true," a while back as if it was a license to live their life to their own needs without consideration of others. I looked it up, it's from Shakespeare. I've never read Shakespeare before, but read Hamlet. 86 pages of though's and thee's and much I didnt' understand.

But here's the quote: To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, though canst not then be false to any man.

What I understand that to mean is if we are gut wrenching honest with ourselves, try to live our life in honesty, acknowledge our failures, take responsibility for them and work towards correcting them, then nothing but honesty can come from us -- just as everyday the sun comes up and goes down.

And what is one form of respect for another? Honesty.

Hugs to Ms. Mirror and all the ladies.

Anonymous said...

Hey Mirror, I have been dating this guy for about a month and had four really good dates (kissed on the 3rd and 4th). We spoke for about three weeks before meeting. We've been messaging every day pretty much and conversation just flows and continues for hours sometimes! Anyway, I haven't heard from him for 4 days now (the last break like this was 2 days and I messaged him then). I jokingly said at the time that I messaged him first and he said about giving me peace and quiet from him?! He seems like a genuine guy who gives me full attention on dates, has great date ideas (not just pub dates which I have had a lot with other lazy guys) but this whole not texting me for four days seems a little out of character. I don't want to the one messaging him first but as an Aries I am starting to lose patience! We haven't got our next date arranged (I'm not free the next couple of weeekends) so he did suggest meeting up on a weekday, but this hasn't been arranged yet. Any advice would be appreciated! Have tried not to overanalyse or doubt myself with this guy as he hadn't given me any reason to until now. Please advise!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 13, 6:30 AM,
"I haven't heard from him for 4 days now. . .I am starting to lose patience! We haven't got our next date arranged. . .Any advice would be appreciated!"

You don't have to "do" anything here, except keep living your life moving forward, dating other men and exploring your options.

You're not in a relationship with this man and no one has made any commitments or obligations to one another here. He has no obligation to contact you regularly because he has not committed to that. And you have no obligation to wait on him as you have not committed yourself to him. You're both free to do as you please because you're only casually dating one another. You can't expect relationship type communication (daily) because you're only casually dating (sporadically).

If you attempt to slip into the masculine role (leader, initiator) in order to take control of the pace of the relationship, you risk him distancing himself from that. Because when a woman does that, it feels unnatural to the man and it also signals to him that the woman has expectations fore "more" than he's currently agreed to. He may feel pressured to start behaving as if he's in a committed relationship, when he hasn't agreed to or asked for that, and he may decide to remove himself from the situation as a result.

Men need space when dating, and they enjoy dating women who they consider "carefree" and fun. If a woman starts to pressure a man by taking control, she's no longer carefree and fun. Instead, she appears demanding and controlling to the man. And if the man cannot get the space he needs, again - he may decide to remove himself from the situation. Men need this space to check in with their feelings because they tend to "feel" them differently than women do. Women tend to "feel" their emotions during times of togetherness, while men tend to "feel" their emotions during times of absence. When they're dating they're like, "Cool, this is fun." But after a while they're like, "Do I have feelings for this woman, or am I just having fun?" To answer that question and determine how they feel, they need space to do that. They need to place space between themselves and the woman and then wait and see - do they miss her? Do they think about her constantly? Do they want to reach for the phone to contact her? Do they miss the sound of her voice? Do they miss spending time with her?

Men equate "longing" for someone with love.

If the man finds himself longing for you during these absences, then he knows - yep, I have feelings for her. If he does not, then he knows he's simply having fun and enjoying her company, but he doesn't necessarily have feelings for her. If a woman becomes insecure and anxious and worried during these times of absence and attempts to take control and take the lead and pressure the man into moving at the pace she desires and he's not ready for that and doesn't know how he feels yet - or if he even wants a relationship with her - he may bolt away from her and disappear :-(

So I do not suggest "doing" anything here. You can't control others anyway. You can't force them to love you or want to be with you. So in the end, it's a fruitless effort anyway. And you don't want to come across as insecure to the man, as if you had to take control because you were going nuts over a few days absence. And that's not the impression to give a man about yourself because if you do, you give your "power" away to him - he instantly knows he's got you right where he wants you. And if he wants to push your buttons or try to get a reaction from you, all he has to do is toy with you and your emotions by disappearing for a few days.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Instead, stand strong, be confident in yourself - and do nothing.

Keep moving forward with your life, exploring your options, dating other men, spending time with friends and enjoying life. That's all you have to do. If this man wants you, he knows exactly how to find you.

Because the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested - is to see if HE pursues HER ;-)

Unknown said...

Hello MOA just a little update on my situation. Today I sent my guy a "dear John" letter ending our relationship. Today was day 33 of second no contact. Got fed up waiting. Let him know he disrespected me by not giving a gift at Christmas. Also told him that I hadn't seen his selfish side before. Let him know that the gift I had for him, I gave to a homeless gentleman. Stick that in your pipe!! I feel STRONG. Oh I have a date with another guy on Monday. Woo hoo 😊. Will keep reading your site for guidance. Thank you

Anonymous said...

@Mirror 'If this man wants you, he knows exactly how to find you.' Thanks so much Mirror, I needed that advice! I was good and resisted texting and you know what, HE messaged ME! He even said later on in the message that 'absence makes the heart grow fonder'! So definitely agree that men need that space. No date mentioned yet but I think I will leave it to him to suggest, as you say, it's not wise to take on the masculine role. Thanks again! :)

Ralphie Harrison said...

Listen ladies! This stuff works and don't be an idiot like me who has wasted so many years telling myself that I don't play games. Well you better learn or else you will always loose.

Most of the time, I did this without even realizing it, it was not intentional at all. With my ex, I was hot and cold with him in the beginning because I was still in love with my other ex. This made him jump throw a million hoops to get me and after 10 mos of dating he proposed to me. Fast forward a year later, he started to back off and get cold feet. The more emotional I became the more he backed off. Finally he broke off the engagement and I moved out. For months I tolerated his disrespect post-break up, I went from being the woman he was going to marry to nothing but a booty call who he wouldn't even let spend the night. The more I gave to him and the more love I showed him the more ruthless he became. He literally played me like a fiddle, disrespected me and was juggling me and multiple women. I finally got the courage to walk away completely. I ignored him, told him I'd call him but never did. Cancelled plans to see him multiple times, and even dated other men. And then one day I finally felt completely free of my emotional attachment to him. And ladies, he flipped the f*ck out and damn near began stalking me. He called me non-stop, left voicemail's crying, drove past my job trying to get me to talk to him. And he did this for a year straight!! All of the sudden he wanted to marry me again. But I was actually all the way done with him so I never went back.

Fast forward to the new guy. Boy did I jump in head first with him. He was the first man in years that I honestly liked everything about him! The sexual chemistry was off the radar and the intellectual chemistry was even better. This is where I went totally wrong. After a month of dating, I was so sprung that I gave him what ever he wanted. I cooked for him, I was available when he needed me, I was flexible with his busy work schedule, and I was way more open to try new things with him sexually than I usually do with other men. And of course, after 8 months of dating he began fading out, became an asshole, and then finally disappeared. I was distraught and emotional during the fade out period because I knew he was fading on me, so I did what lot of women do, I became clingy because I knew he was pulling away and he left.

Fast forward 6 weeks later, no contact. It had been a month and a half and I did not try to contact him at all, not even once, nor did he. I was finally content and happy and just met a new guy, who I was pushing away because I just went thru so much emotionally with the last guy that I wasn't ready for him either. And of course here comes Mr. MIA. He's back telling me how much he misses me, apologizing for disappearing and wanting to take me out on a date. HA! I ignored him...not on purpose but because I'm just in a different place now and rather not deal with the baggage. It hurt the last time he left so why let him come back to hurt me again, no thanks! Then he called, again, and again and sent more and more texts. I finally answered and have mostly been nonchalant with him too.

Long story short, I now have two guys trying really hard to get my attention and I can take or leave them both. Mostly because I care about myself more and if you touch fire and it burns then you should not touch it again.

Chleo said...

Hi Mirror and Ladies

I have to say that I haven't heard from my former boyfriend in a long time, although some time ago he tried to reestablish contact with me, but I gave him no answer. I think it was mostly a curiosity thing. Either way, that story is over. I am writing to say that I met a new man through my work, and have been following the correct procedures. He is usually the one who contacts me, who initiates texts and so on, he just waits till the last minute to ask me out, like on a Friday for us to go out the next day and I have been saying no. There was something he told me which looked bizarre. He told me he still had feelings for a lady that works with us, although he didn't say her name. He is a Scorpio btw. I think I should tell him that I am not willing to go out with him considering he still has feelings for another woman. I can't stop thinking why he told me that. Was this a test and is this common with Scorpios? Or he is hoping for a one night time stand?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Chloe,
"There was something he told me which looked bizarre. He told me he still had feelings for a lady that works with us, although he didn't say her name. He is a Scorpio btw. I think I should tell him that I am not willing to go out with him considering he still has feelings for another woman. I can't stop thinking why he told me that. Was this a test and is this common with Scorpios? Or he is hoping for a one night time stand?"

I believe that comment was meant to gauge your reaction.

Meaning, your reaction will tell him 1) If you're open to hooking up even though he's got feelings for another. And 2) If you become insecure at the thought of him having feelings for another (in which case, you'd begin to pursue him in an attempt to prove your worth and end up doing all the work to keep the situation with him afloat).

Bottom line - this guy is going to be emotionally unavailable to you because his feelings lie with another. As a result, unfortunately, he will not be worth investing any of your time, effort, feelings, etc. into :-(

Chleo said...

Thank you very much Mirror. I just feel slightly insulted for the fact that he thought I could be happy in spending time with him, when he has feeling for another woman. Now he doesn't stop asking me not to tell people at work that he is in love with someone. Really bizarre. Oh well, thank you again Mirror and keep up with this very good website

Unknown said...

Hello MOA yet another update. After sending my guy a letter ending our relationship( which I really didn't want to do) he messaged me, saying he was sorry, had lots of things going on at time etc etc. I stupidly replied that I was pleased to hear from him, and offered help!! Wtf. Now I realise my crazy antics, and am backing off again. Never replied to his last text. Was doing well and now my emotions are all over the place again. This time I'm not chasing, I will leave him to walk and get on with my life. This is so hard, but great advice. Thank you

Anonymous said...

Dear The MOA, I appreciate your comments to the other questions they have really helped. Long story (kind of) short, I dated this guy off and on for about 8 months. About 3 months on, 2 off, back together again briefly, then off again. He cheated on me and was dishonest with SM etc too. This caused a lot of distrust etc. as you can imagine, but we tried to move on. A little over a month ago we were starting to get back together officially again, he started to share more feelings with me again (even though he told me first that he loved me early on in our relationship), but then he dropped a bombshell that he possibly got a girl pregnant allegedly during our break and I believe this was the girl he had cheated on me with. I wanted to really talk to him to get an understanding of what happened, because when he told me it was not the most convenient time and I had a lot of unanswered questions. I in some ways would like to have that conversation in the near future. I cut off contact with him for a month. He did reach out previously, but I have not heard from him during this time, which is different from previous when I did cut off contact with him after the cheatation. He may have moved on, and I have too, in healing and in a much better place. Not necessarily needing closure, but wanting to come to a better understanding, because I really desire to be in the right relationship. I have forgiven him and part of me still wants to have a peaceful conversation and understanding. I did tell him in the last text and contact I made with him almost a month ago telling him I cared about him, but his actions hurt me and I would possibly be open to a conversation about what's going on and that I hope all is well... to which he has not responded. Should I contact him after this month or two and have that conversation that we never got the chance to have? Or should I continue to move on (and just let things end the way they did) and only have that conversation if I want to if he contacts me again. I appreciate your response, because I do need your wise advice on this. :)
Anonymous: {Peach to Apple}

Anonymous said...

P.S.
Dear The MOA,
from Anonymous {Peach to Apple}
When I said sharing his feelings he was asking me in a hypothetical way if I would take him back in such a scenario and then laid that bombshell on me. When I say "move on"... I feel he could possibly be dating someone else or not, but not with the the alleged girl he allegedly got pregnant. I feel a little in the dark, because he said what he said and we have not spoken since then. He reached out a few times, but it was weird at first he could not hear me on the phone. Then I probably ignored other call and he texted me and then I decided to respond with text content above.

Thank you.

Anonymous {Peach to Apple}

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous {Peach to Apple},
"He cheated on me and was dishonest. . .This caused a lot of distrust etc. as you can imagine, but we tried to move on."

When a man shows you his true character like that, he gets no second chances. . .instead, there are CONSEQUENCES for treating others like that (no more access to you). Sacrificing your own happiness for someone who is not making any sacrifices for yours will not lead you to a "happily ever after" ending. Most times, you will only end up experiencing an exact repeat of your first experience with the man.

"he dropped a bombshell that he possibly got a girl pregnant allegedly during our break and I believe this was the girl he had cheated on me with. . .I wanted to really talk to him to get an understanding of what happened"

Why do you want to gain an understanding? Is it so that you can attempt to convince yourself to overlook this behavior so you can permit yourself to continue seeing him?

You don't need to gain an understanding - all you need to do is ACCEPT the reality of who this man is, and the consequences his actions have rendered for himself (not you), and then leave him on his own to face those consequences alone.

You are not required to experience the consequences of his actions with him.

"wanting to come to a better understanding, because I really desire to be in the right relationship"

This man can offer you nothing when it comes to what it takes to be in a good relationship. Your actions did not cause his behavior. He is responsible for that all on his own.

"Should I contact him after this month or two and have that conversation that we never got the chance to have?"

I see no point in having that conversation at all. Because again, there won't be anything for you to gain from it. This man has nothing to teach you about relationships or commitment. He clearly doesn't know anything of value regarding either one.

"I feel a little in the dark, because he said what he said and we have not spoken since then."

The story is over dear. His chapter in your book of life was written and has ended. You're not in the dark, you know everything you need to know that's important and of value here for you to make wise decisions for yourself.

Who he's dating now, or whether or not he's with the woman he got pregnant is of no value to you whatsoever. Knowing that information will in no way have any great impact because again, you know everything important that you need to know. You know this man cannot be trusted, you know that this man isn't cut out for commitment, you know that this man is deceitful, you know that this man is capable of betrayal - and that's all you need to know to make a decision for yourself to move on and never look back.

Besides, a man like this is NEVER going to be completely honest with ANYONE, anyway. You're never going to get the truth from a man like this. So having a conversation with him will only provide worthless information to you anyway. Therefore, it's unnecessary to do so.

You've already made the break from him, you've already removed him from your life. I see no reason to pull him back into it. Keep moving forward, don't look back ;-)



Anonymous said...

Dear The MOA,

Thank you so much.

(In all honesty, I did call the day after I wrote this and before you replied, but Thankfully (!!!) there was no place to leave a msg. –so hopefully it will just look like an accident hahaha.)

You’re right! I believe I was trying to give myself a reason to mend things with him, because I do care, but it would only open myself for more hurt -I realized that after calling and your timely response was the confirmation I needed. He has not ever really taken responsibility for his actions and I am not to blame for them. I have nothing to gain in a conversation with him, because one thing he has done consistently is be deceitful, so how can I expect the truth anyway… It’s over and I am thankful this chapter is over. I have learned lessons and in a much better place, so no time to go back. The right choice in this situation is that I am going to move forward. You mention value a lot and I realize that he did not recognize my value or truly value me and proven incapable of treating me with that value in mind -I should not cast my value down to be with him and I won’t. ;) The right man will recognize me and value me )

What you said is very insightful, a wake-up call and what I needed to hear to empower me to keep moving forward. I have already logged 30 days and happy with my emotional healing and progress. He did show me who he was and I need to believe him. I want to be available for the right man and he has shown me he is not. Thank you The MOA, I appreciate your advice and wish you many blessings your way.

Peach to Apple <3

Anonymous said...

hey MOA-
sucha long story but ill try to make it short. so long story short i was dating a guy for 5 months last year everything was perfect we werent bf & gf yet, but we were heading there because we MUTUALLY agreed that we wanted something serious. October comes and i simply say im ready to be in a relationship etc (I know now i shouldnt have brought it up) and he basically says he wants to be with me but time was hard, he was "busy" and he was going in the navy come januarary so he didnt want to hurt me so he ended things. of course i was shocked and upset, cried that night when he left, but i got over it and i havent been in contact with him or reached out in the entire 5 months. I really have been great. Occasionally/rarely i go in this eatery place he works at but only because im going in there for food not for him.But everytime i go in he gives me everything for free. last week on monday he texts me (SHOCKING) basically saying how i dont have to pay for food when i go in there because he still feels bad of how things ended etc. n then we wind up getting into this semi long convo thru text and hes not going into the navy, and he deeply regrets ending things, because he knows he made a mistake by letting an amazing woman like me slip away. and if he could take back that night in october he would bc it kills him everyday. and he still has feelings for me. Long story short i give him a SECOND chance. because i feel like theres unfinished business, but i feel like hes taking me for granted and this is WEEK ONE. we were suppose to meet up wednesday at 5 after he got out of work. and i never recieved a text, bc his brother supposedly got "jumped" but i feel like i got semi stood up and its rude he couldnt take 5 seconds to let me know. he said hell have to "raincheck" that date, long story short its been 8 days already with 0 attempt to reschedule, or see me so his ACTIONS are proving hes still not serious. so i call him n tell him thats not going to work with me bc its rude, and this is a warning, i just said im going to give you another chance so ill stick to it. so he apologizes and says he'll try his best to prove himself. then he asks if ill be up later i said yes, so he sed hes going to call me. He NEVER calls.so thats when i started pulling back and being less available. then he texts me "hey" the next day and we have a boring convo with his last text didnt deem a response so i didnt reply. he then texts me "hey" the next night i say "hey whatsup " n then he ignores my text, and iknow he ignored it because he was on social media (he doesnt know i know his social media account) and then texts me the NEXT NIGHT saying " my fault i dipped last night" when i know he checks his phone in the morning, or early afternoon before work and this isnt the first time he ignored my text ( i was responding to his text last week, and i asked a question and he ignores it) Ive never initiated contact only that time i asked whatsup?? when he basically stood me up.) so then i dont respond at all. he texts me today "hey" and i dont respond. because i feel im being taken for granted when he should be on his best behavior bc im giving him a Second chance. so now im instilling "no contact" because im not happy and losing interest bc hes showing none .really. so my question : do i respond to if he asks "whats wrong"? or wait for him to say "can we talk/ i need to talk to you" OR should i just walk away and stick to no contact forever. because if we do talk itll just be me saying this isnt working for me. and ending things because my needs arent getting met, and im not happy in this situation, and his words and actions arent matching...at all. and if it didnt work a second try, then its not meant to be, and im just over it.

Anonymous said...

Ok friends: Gem and MOA were kind enough to weigh in back in January (1/18!) when I first wrote. Here is my news since then. 3 months to the day of posting in this blog, I get this text this morning.

"Hi. I don't mean to disrupt you but I want you to know that stopping everything was hard and unpleasant. I think that you should know that that was not a matter of flipping a switch. I am very sorry that it did not work out and that my inability to deliver what you would need, what would be merely reasonable to provide, caused the end of it. In any case, I really, really want you to be happy. I want you to be clear about that and I feel that respecting your desire for a categorical break, which I have understood, left things too much to the imagination. On the bright side, you surely are better off. This note has no artifice. I want you to know the above and hope that at this date it is not toxic to say that. I think it might be relevant to your making sense of that chapter and it may pay a modicum of respect to you. You deserve all there is of that. And very much more."

No response necessary, correct? Or just a simple "Thank You" (in 3 days). Arghh. To me it just sounds like he wrote me after 3 months just to break up with me all over again. Why?
Signed: PERMALOSA (posts from January 18-30 2016)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I would appreciate your opinion on a situation I'm currently dealing with.

I recently spoke to (my now ex bf) about him cheating on me. We have been broken up for quite some time, but he had been trying to contact me for days asking for answers (I ended it without really giving him a specific reason for the breakup + ignored his calls). When he contacted me to talk, he said to me that "I have turned my back on him, but he hasn't turned his on me" and that he 'is not trying to win me over but needs me as his friend'.

While we were together, I had lingering suspicions that he was cheating. I asked him more than once if he had/was, and he said no, even getting a bit defensive. I still had suspicions, so I did some digging in his email. Well...in addition to very inappropriate pictures, I found a Whatsapp conversation where inappropriate things were said.

I had screenshots of the convo, so I sent it to him. He denied the whole thing. In fact, he denied that the person in the convo was even him (even though his name was clearly one of the participants, plus I found the convo in HIS EMAIL INBOX). He had emailed the chat to himself from his phone (for what reason, I don't know). After sending him the screenshots, the first thing he said is that it's not him and that 'it is under his name, but not him in convo'.

He then went on to say some BS that didn't make sense, something along the lines of it was someone pretending it's him, and that he's not even going to try to justify himself because he knows it's not him and I am wrongly accusing him. About a minute later, he essentially says to me that he is annoyed and will back off. Not once did he ask me where I found this convo. Not once.

I should have left things there, but after that, I sent him another message, telling him that the reason I ended things the way I did was because I was hurt over the entire thing. You know what he asked me after that? If I am dating anyone. Of course, I did not reply. Two days later, he reiterates the question and then some hours later sent another message, saying “Are you going to answer the question”. A bit demanding, don't you think?

Since then, he has been sending me messages every two days or so, saying things from "Just wanted to say hello" to "good morning" to "Hey wassup" to "You seriously can't even reply to say hi or hello". Then last night he calls me (ignored) then sent me a photo of my graduation picture than I gave to him.... which somewhat confused me.

Mirror, I have been advised to not only go No Contact with him, but to completely protect myself from his contact and BLOCK him for my own peace of mind in the long run. I did not mention this before, but when I sent him the screenshots of the convo, I was going to also send him screenshots of inappropriate photos of himself he had emailed to girls (I had seen some of these exact photos before), but I didn't bother, because I knew he would deny that too. Now, I find myself wanting to send them now to have the final word, THEN block him.

I want him to know that I have nothing more to say to him, I cannot be his friend and he is not capable of being honest, even if evidence was staring him dead in the face *then send the screenshots and block him finally*

What do you think Mirror?

Gem50 said...

@Permalosa,

“This note has no artifice.” Sounds a lot like, “I’m not a Player,” or, “I’m not a liar,” statements that Ms. Mirror has explained do not need to be said if they are someone’s truth.

Go with your first comment. “No response necessary.” :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 21, 3:24 PM,
"spoke to (my now ex bf) about him cheating on me. . .he said to me that "I have turned my back on him, but he hasn't turned his on me" and that he 'is not trying to win me over but needs me as his friend'."

When you betray someone, there are consequences for treating them poorly. And one of the consequences of treating someone poorly is that - you lose them. If he needed you as a friend, then he should've valued you as a person.

And when you betray someone, you can expect them to turn their back on you. It's not wise to keep company with someone who has betrayed you and cannot be trusted. Additionally, it's a VERY SELFISH request to EXPECT someone to do that for you. . .after you've treated them poorly and betrayed them and their trust.

"I find myself wanting to send them now to have the final word, THEN block him."

That's your ego dear. Meaning, you really do not need to do this to prove anything to him or yourself or anyone else. The truth is the truth. And the truth can reign supreme - with or without taking this a step further. The only thing sending those images is going to do, is perpetuate this entire situation, which isn't necessary.

You don't have to PROVE to him that you're right and he's wrong. You don't have to prove anything to him at all. The only thing that you need to do is take care of yourself, look out for yourself properly, and move away from him as he's betrayed you and your trust. Proving who's right or who's wrong really doesn't matter at all.

He KNOWS YOU'RE RIGHT. He KNOWS EXACTLY what he's done.

So walk away and let what he's done sit on his conscience for HIM to deal with. You don't have to prove anything to him.

"I want him to know that I have nothing more to say to him, I cannot be his friend and he is not capable of being honest"

And you do that by walking away and never looking back - without any explanation whatsoever. Because again, this man KNOWS exactly what he's done. And if you go to him again to perpetuate this situation, all he's going to do is act cowardly and attempt to make you think you're crazy.

I wouldn't even grant him the opportunity to do that - cheaters get left in the dust, high and dry ;-)

MarinaMarina said...

Mirror, I do not even know if you bother checking this page or these comments anymore...and if you dont, I am so so saddened that I am three years late in discovering your blog and this article.

I was seeing a Sagg. man that was older than me by 12 years...I am in my 20s, he in his 30s. Well I will admit, I was intimidated at first because I listened too much to the words of my friends and my long time single god mom haha and let the year difference frighten me a bit, when my initial reaction saw no issue in the age difference. I kept my cool at the start of it, I enjoy letting a man be a man and so it was easy for me to let him take the lead. He would contact me when he wanted to take me on a date, and contact me consistently but by no means was he texting me hours on end, or at wee hours on the night. I would let him lead in communication too. If a day or two went by when I didnt hear from I didnt worry or reach out because i knew he was not big on texting like me (older, i am younger), i also learned that he is the type to compartmentalize things. When he is at work he is at work, if he has to run errands he has to run errands, he is not like a woman who thinks of the person she is interested in all day long. Now the issue. We only went on three dates, on the third date I made the mistake of being too vunerable and sharing too much of myself with him. I had followed his lead, he had shared some really personal things with me and I appreciated his honesty and wanted to be transparent too. Well instead of him appreciating that, he disappeared on me.he disappeared for about 2 days and then texted me, only to stop responding to me. He has since been silent for a little over a week, going on two weeks come this weekend. I have not reached out to him. I have not tried texting or calling him. Not only did he disrespect me and lack compassion by being insensitive to what I shared with him, he then just blantantly stopped talking to me im the middle of our texting conversation in which he initiated.

Anyway after 5 days of not hearing from him, I accepted the possibility that I may have scared him off. I am very transparent, very honest and people always say they appreciate it but I have learned my lesson that especially in dating it may not be the best to get tooo deep tooo soon. Clearly he couldnt handle me being vunerable, despite him being vunerable.
Well he called my phone and stayed on long enough to where my voicemail picked up him driving. He didnt leave my a message saying hello, call.him back or explaining his absence, but he stayed on long enough where I could hear he was driving.

That call was 4 days ago, and he has not texted me or tried calling since. But that voicemail lets me know he was thinking about me, probably wondering how i could just appear unphased by his disappearance.

But i am wondering, should i call him back? Or should i let him reach out to me and either text me properly or leave me a proper voicemail expressing his interest in speaking with me?

I still would like to keep seeing him. But we only had 3 dates, and he has a bit of a history of being a bad boy, though he says he is more mild now, i do not know. But i am wondering if i ruined things for good and he is just gone gone gome, and i missed my chance to make things "right."?

If you see this please respond. I am doing no contact for my own dignity and self respect but i also would like to make a second chance possible.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@MarinaMarina,
"But i am wondering, should i call him back?"

If he left no message and made no request for a call back - no, don't call him back. Because this may be a game he's playing, and you don't want to fall prey to that.

A genuinely interested man will pursue a woman. If he's interested, he'll seek you out ;-)

"Or should i let him reach out to me and either text me properly or leave me a proper voicemail expressing his interest in speaking with me?"

Yes - let HIM pursue YOU. It's the only way you're going to know if he's genuinely interested.

"he has a bit of a history of being a bad boy"

Yea, I sense that. The old "accidental butt dial" game he's playing with that call while he was driving. If you phoned him back - that's what he'd claim. He'd claim that he never MEANT to call you, and it must've been an accidental dial.

When the reality is that is was most likely that ole' "accidental" trick, meant to make a woman chase the man (and hand her power over to him) - don't fall for it ;-)

When a man disappears on a woman like that, and he's got a history of being a player, that is meant to bring the woman's insecurities to the surface, so that she'll chase, hand over her power, and the man then starts yanking her around.

Because "bad boys" are actually VERY insecure men who feel the need to use manipulation to win a woman over, because deep down inside they don't feel they have real social skills that enable them to do that without using manipulation:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html

And I will warn you, dating an insecure man is a VERY exhausting experience, fraught with grief, confusion, and a lot of wasted effort:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html

"But i am wondering if i ruined things for good and he is just gone gone gome, and i missed my chance to make things "right."?"

It's a game dear. You didn't ruin anything. He's just trying to make you THINK you did, so that he can gain some power over you. Players do this on purpose because they know insecure women (like themselves) will start worrying about where he is, what he's doing, why he doesn't like her. . .and then the woman chases them - to which they then feign disinterest (while secretly loving all the attention and ego boost they're getting from seeing her squirm).

"i also would like to make a second chance possible"

Careful what you wish for dear LOL - my gut is telling me this man IS indeed a seasoned player. And if I'm right about that, unfortunately, dating him is not going to ultimately be as enjoyable as you may think :-(

Players attempt to make women feel insecure so that the woman is more attainable to them. Weakening the woman emotionally makes her more susceptible to sexual advances. And players are generally not looking to enter into committed relationships (even though they'll mislead you into thinking that's exactly what they want). Which means that dating them usually amounts to a one to three month brief sexual fling or affair only, and nothing more :-(

MarinaMarina said...

Thanks MOA,

I really appreciate you getting back in touch with me, I had no idea if you were still active on the comments (I was on the first page of comments and did not see you still were taking comments up to this year haha). So thank you for being such a devoted and truly helpful blogger.

As for this sagg man. It is interesting that now he tries to show his side of being a player...up until that date...and in particularly that point in the evening, he was the complete gentleman. He had numerous chances to make this sexual and he did not. We would kiss and I would take his arms and wrap them around me, he never would allow his hands to drift. He is definitely a very sexual man, he has 3 kids with two different women from his 20s...i know, i know, red flag. But you know up until that revelation (it is that revelation that caused my reaction which has led to this distance from him), his treatment was only gentleman like in nature. On our first date he took me out to a really fancy dinner ($$$), now i am not naive, i realized once i heard about his history as a "ladies' man) that he could of very well wined and dined those women...maybe not to that extent because he was in his 20s then, but he had to have done something to at least convince the 2nd woman to be crazy enough to be his second baby mama.

I know it all sounds crazy for me, i am young and in my 20s, why would i want an older man, let alone this one. But I do. Do I naively see it as something that will trun into marriage, hahaha no not at all, but i would like to date him for a bit, for the experience i suppose, so long as respect exist.

What is interesting that I failed to mention...2 days after our date, in which i got too vunerable, and he pulled back for two days, and then texted me...before he stopped responding to our text convo, he had sent me a pic of him...something we would do (no sexual pics, just smile faces). He normally would call me baby or angel, but I noticed he just called me baby girl...maybe that is no big deal and i am reading into that, since we only went on 3 dates. But anyway i was being playful and responded "hey sexy, let me see a little bit of that chest," because he had his shirt slightly unbottoned. He sent me back the hysterically laughing emojis and then replied, "well if i do that, then i have to see all parts of your body," i knew flirting would escalate things and i was okay with that because i wanted to take things to the next level eventually, but i didnt expect such a forward response from him. Well I was originally going to say something along the lines of "someday baby, someday" and a kissy face. But my best friend said I sound desperate and too forward and that I dont want to make him just categorize me as just a hookup instead of something serious and concrete. So she told me to send something like, "Nice try baby, but you know I am a lady and a lady never gives it up that easily..." (cringe just thinking about how corny that now reads lmao...i dont think a lady has to SAY she is a lady, just be...but i thought maybe an outside persepctive, i.e. my friend was better cuz she had no attraction to him, so i took her advice and sent THAT text that she suggested.) Well, he sent me a hysterical emoji followed by a "you got me." And then i replied, "aww no kissy faces (because he usually sends me those), did i get you in your feelings that much!??" With a wink face to show i was playfully teasing...no response.

Cont.

MarinaMarina said...

Cont. from Mar. 29 9:28 PM

That is the full backstory to the stop in texting, and then he went silent for that next week, reappearing that thursday with the vmail (with no message left.)

So now it seems like he is playing games, but before he seemed serious. He would contact me consistently, ask me on dates and follow through on plans, he did not try to force sex early on, he was alwayd asking questions to get to know me, liked to talk about a myriad of intellectual topics with me, aside from calling me baby, and kissing me if we were at the dinner table (kissing my forehead, hand, holding my hand), he did not really come onto strong. The only thig that i say happened fast was him telling me a lot of deep stuff about his upbringing and childhood...which you know, i mirrored and shared with him. (My childhood equally traumatic) and that i think freaked him out and led him to start this silence to begin with.

Part of me thinks he is testing me, i felt this instinctually before i even found your blog, the he was testing me to see if i am emotionally unstable because of what happened between us when i slipped up and was too open and vunerable with him.But the other part of me wonders if maybe he was seriously interested in me, but that i somehow shifted it and now he just wants to play games with me. Because the whole texting thing, him coming on suddenly strong sexually and then disappearing is totally different from his normally treatment of me.

I have not contacted him since he ended our texting conversation. So i am happy to say i am smart enough to know not to chase a man. I actually told him when we first met that i did not chase men and that i like to let a man be a man because i like being and feeling every bit of a woman. He said he liked that, that my mom taught me well, to which i said, no, ot is a preference that no one has taught me. That was genuine on my part but that impreseed him more.

So my point is, i am stubborn and i dont appreciate his insensitivity and lack of tact to what i shared with him. I shared it for a reason because a. He had gotten deep and personal with me and i am an incredibly honest person. I like transparency. And b. The work he "SAYS/SAID" he did on his job, is similar to what i experienced as a child, so i naively thought he would be sensitive and understanding. His lackthereof lets me know he is not as involved in that line of work like he led me to believe.

Nevertheless, i am wondering if the nc works, will i be able to get things back to that courtship state. I am dating other guys, and who knows maybe i wont want him, each day i dont hear from him the less i care, i am not crying over him, but i guess i still am curious because he would be differemt than i am use to because he is an older man and i would like to experience that...respectfully though...not causually through sex.

MarinaMarina said...

Also, one more thing sorry haha. I dont know if he is insecure per say, I think he is just like how you described in your other posts, he is a man with an ego and a SAGG ego at that.

The reason I say this is that he is a good looking man, he certainly has his pick of women and is probably use to getting things his way, which is why i think nc may work on him...just him calling me (even if he wants to try and pretend like it was an accident...although from what i do know from him, he is the blunt type and would probably not use such an obvious lying line) lets me know i am on his mind. I just wonder how much because well that phone call was almost a week ago, i did not return his call because i think i deserve a proper message from him, and i know he has to wonder how i am so cool with just dropping him and letting him disappear, which for the most part i am. I would be disappointed if it is truly over but i would not feel broken...hell just today i got asked on a date by another equally attractive, if not more man. But if it reaches another week of no contact from him, it makes me wonder.

I feel like nc should work on the classic sagg and he is for the most part the typical sagg--more enlightened than dark, but that is based on only what i know---.

I also know that he told me he does not like titles on relationships but will be exclusive with a woman. But that he likes his freedom, and is very much a sagg in those regards.

So this is why i dont think it as much insecurity on his part, as it is his sagg ego trying to get a rise out of me, and i think it is like i initially felt, a test.

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,

I hope I can get some help and guidance regarding my situation. I recently met a guy through a dating app back in January. We immediately clicked and there was amazing chemistry between us. We shared alot in common. This might sound cliche, but I never felt this way about a guy before, and I was starting to have feelings for him. Anyways, things were going well: we went out a few times and kept in touch through texts and phone calls.

However after about two months, I noticed that he started to become distant. I was initiating the majority of the contact. And when I did reach out to him, he would reply quickly and our conversations always went well. Since his distance was starting to upset me, I decided to back off and give him some space. After the first week of March (and after reading posts here)I decided to implement the no contact rule. Its been about three weeks and I haven’t reached out to him via phone or text. I’ve been focusing on work, getting back into shape, and hanging out with friends and family.
My question is: will no contact be effective in my situation? Is it possible to “get him back” after a month of no communication? I’ve been trying to tell myself to move on, but then I become weak and start thinking about him again.

A.E.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@A.E.
"will no contact be effective in my situation?"

For you - yes, it will be effective. It will help you to emotionally detach so that you don't invest more emotionally into the situation than the man is currently investing. And once you're detached, you're more able to move forward with your life with more clarity and less confusion about the man, the situation, and yourself and your own feelings.

"Is it possible to “get him back” after a month of no communication?"

Anything is possible. But there are no guarantees in life.

Anonymous said...

Dear Gem and MOA,

Thank you Gem for weighing in. I found that message to be so painful to receive! Why send it? There are no answers to these "whys."

I found it interesting that you zero-ed in on the "This note has no artifice" comment. Such a weird thing to say. I noticed it too but did not cut to the chase on it like you... You read it as fakery?

But I definitely, intuitively followed your advice, even before receiving your response... I have not written anything at all back to him.

I am still in love with this person somehow, after 3-4 months of NC. His message shows no such feelings towards m that I can see. Again, to me it just sounded like an unnecessary reaching out, only to say goodbye again = "It was hard for me to not hear from you, but it is for the best." Is that what you hear? In any case, I will not respond to him. Thank you for your support and input.

Signed: PERMALOSA (in response to Gem50 3/21/2016)
MOA - please post this message as anonymous - not sure if my last one went through.

Gem50 said...

@Lottie,
Kudos to you for walking this new path. Don't worry about the time it takes -- life takes as long as it takes (and that's a good thing) :)
hugs

Gem50 said...

@ Permalosa,
"There are no answers to these "whys."
Exactly. We can't know why people do things unless they tell us truthfully. We CAN handle every life experience as best we can with the knowledge and tools that we have/are practicing.

Don't worry about the love you still feel for this person. Instead, recognize it and continue to live your life. Love is not a bad thing to feel towards someone. If we look at love with love, we can see that no matter what, it is beautiful.

That being said, there are often a whole lot of other emotions tied into love: want, need, etc., and these emotions need to be managed. We manage them as Ms. Mirror has said by taking care of ourselves; learning and applying tools to help us get through sadness, fear, etc. as you've been doing for the past 3-4 months.

As far as his message goes, it makes me angry. I am a very protective person of others, and when it comes to fight or flight, I am quick on the former (I'm working on that). That being said, my first reaction to the paragraph you provided is, F him! He sounds like a pompous ass, and I'm not buying what he's selling.

Now that that is out, here's a better response: I think he's thinking, and I think he's bothered. But until he comes clean to himself and you, there is nothing you should do about it.

How many stories have we read here of men coming back. Most of them don't come back with the best of intentions, but so many of them do come back.

Continue to live your life dear, continue to look up one day at a time. If he's meant to be in your life, he will, but we don't sit and wait for them. Who knows, maybe at times we are meant to move ahead before them.
sending hugs for you

Anonymous said...

Dating a fellow for 6 months now and have some contact pattern concerns. I have been keeping a journal of his contact times. Since I work in the legal field, I tend to document lots of things in my life that are important to me.

I see a consistent pattern of tons of attention from him via phone or text, then switching to silence for 3 days. On the odd occasion it would vary – 4, 2 days or 1 day. He would never say what he had been doing during those periods of absence. I did not ask so as to not appear to be prying. He is a very private individual.

Does this indicate to you he may be harboring another relationship? He really does not talk about anyone in his life - friends, co-workers, siblings. Obviously this has aroused some suspicions but I would like another opinion, in case I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 6, 4:09 PM,
"Dating a fellow for 6 months now and have some contact pattern concerns. . .Does this indicate to you he may be harboring another relationship?"

It's always a possibility. The other possibility is that he's been an active member of the PUA community (pick up artists) -- and he's following their methods to an absolute T.

Do a bit of googling "pick up artist advice" and read some of what you see being taught there. You'll notice that it's part of the programming to teach men how to "put a woman on ice" for a while like that, to keep her interest, to keep the power in the relationship in their hands, and to try to bring your insecurities to the surface:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html

If they "weaken" you by making you question yourself constantly about whether or not they're interested or what they're up to all the time - you become insecure about yourself. And when you become insecure about yourself, you become emotionally weak. And when you become emotionally weak, you become more "attainable" to them.

And when you become more attainable to them -- they hold the power in the relationship.

It's blatant misuse of psychological tendencies and it's being taught to men day in and day out.

And while this can also signify a significant other on the side, when that's the case it's not usually quite so consistent. Because people are people, they have busy lives, and things cannot become to patterned with such regularity.

Things that generally signify a significant other would be things like:

1) He can never spend any weekends with you, and he's never available to speak to you during them either.

2) He has never taken you to his home.

3) He's never available, or rarely available, during the evenings either to speak or to see you.

4) He has not introduced you to any of his family.

5) He has not introduced you to his friends.

6) He will drop off calls suddenly and without explanation.

7) He's full of excuses (really strange, elaborate ones).

If you've been to his home, met his family, met his friends, spent weekends together, spend evenings together and this is taking place. . .it begins to look like "The Game" and not necessarily a significant other in the picture.

Anonymous said...

I'm a Capricorn I'm not sure if that matters but he's a Taurus .Its a long story but we met as coworkers at first and I never showed intrest due to our age difference .We started talking 2years after and had only been talking four months before I let my insecurities chase him away .i kept throwing doubt about us his way and he wasn't making it any better by not finding time to communicate with me .claims he's not a Phone person .but he was working full time n the no communication was killing me .so I called it off & in the same instant took it back .the stupid girl in me thought that maybe he'd hold on .but instead he's convinced himself that I'm all about games.hes a bit of a know it all (stubborn Taurus ).i don't know how to get through to him .because we were only dating and not in a relationship could this still work .he seems to take friendship very seriously because he has trouble maintaining friendships and I don't want him to accept my distance .

Anonymous said...

Hi, I started talking to this guy the beginning of this year who has a pattern of playing games and acting hot and cold. Every conversation we have is over the phone, but he doesn't call consistently. He'll call me maybe 2 to three days in a row and then dissapear for a few days and come back. When I call him out on this he explains that he "has his gaurd up" and that talking to me too often will cause him to catch feelings. He pulled a ghosting stunt on me when he disappeared for a month and came back on Valentine's Day. I believe he did this because I was starting to persue him more by trying to make plans. Anyways when he came back I returned his call 2 days later and we picked up where we left off. I did express that I didn't appreciate him doing that but I've realized words don't really work with him. We hung out not too long after he came
back (no sex but it got physical) and things went well he even called me when he got home. But not too long after that he immediately went back to his typical game playing of avoiding me for a few days and then calling me again. Recently he pulled the ghosting stunt again, and dissapeared for another month. It happened after I was trying to make plans with him, he ignored my message and call. It seems like he doesn't like when I take charge or pursue him, and really likes the game. Anyway he called me just this past Tuesday and obviously I didn't pick up because I can't just make myself available to him whenever it's convenient for him. I'm thinking its best not to call him back and and wait to see if he calls again and I might answer that time. Is this the right move ? I do like him and I still want to talk to him but I'm trying to get the message out that this type of treatment will not be tolerated. I understand that he's the "bad boy" type and and doesn't really want anything too serious but I still need to be treated with respect in order to have any sort of involvement with him, no matter how much I do like him.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror! Thank you for your articles and wise advice. Always a pleasure reading it during tough times.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 14, 7:44 PM,
"When I call him out on this he explains that he "has his gaurd up" and that talking to me too often will cause him to catch feelings."

Well, if developing feelings for someone is a "bad" thing to him, like a virus that he doesn't want to catch -- then this man is going to be, and remain, emotionally unavailable to you. It appears he does not want a relationship unfortunately.

"It seems like he doesn't like when I take charge or pursue him, and really likes the game."

He likes the game because it enables him to remain aloof and emotionally detached.

"I'm thinking its best not to call him back and and wait to see if he calls again and I might answer that time. Is this the right move?"

If you're only interested in "hooking up" with him and NOT having a relationship with him, then yes that'd be fine.

However, if your desire is to have a committed relationship, then it'd be wise to pull away from him and move on so that you can actually find that for yourself. Because this man does not want a committed relationship, and he keeps himself emotionally detached on purpose -- so that he doesn't have to be part of one.

His actions are showing you that he does not want a committed relationship, and that he's not going to permit one to develop here :-(

If a relationship is what you want, I'd suggest that you cease any involvement with this man so that you can meet a man that wants the same thing.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror, I desperately need your advice.
So I have been dating a guy for 3 months (9 dates). Got on really well, had proper dates/ day trips out. 9th date we slept together (I was a virgin). He was aware of this and was happy to wait and no pressure. So I haven't heard anything from him since that night which was 3 days ago, no message, nothing. He also didn't stay the night, left around 2am... I literally feel like I'm now questioning everything. I mean no message after sleeping with me for the first time to check I'm OK etc, to me seems uncaring and shows lack of interest. I'm tempted to wait until a week has passed since that night and if I haven't heard I may message saying I was disappointed not to hear from him since that night especially as you knew it was a big deal for me. If he says something like I thought we were casual, I will say that's not the impression you were giving me and I felt lead on. What do you think? I know you say no contact, but I think he needs to know that I'm calm but disappointed not to have heard from him.

Fire & Water said...

So, remember A - the traveling consultant who works in my avocation? Well, I run into him periodically and this last time, he mentioned a project we had discussed a year ago. Last year, I set up a contact for him and he completely dropped the ball. I spoke to the contact - someone I've known for years and trust professionally- and the contact told me he tried to get in touch with A a couple of times and that A hadn't responded to the last two attempts. A's behavior toward myself made that quite believable. So, last week, A brings up this project to me again. I told him he'd been talking about it for a year. He said we're both busy and that if he were to do it, he'd need a contact. I reminded him that I had given him a contact, but that he hadn't made use of it. He said that he had tried to. I told him I had spoken with the contact and was told he had not. He reiterated that he had tried. I let him know that I didn't believe him and changed the subject. All of this was done very matter of factly, with no strong emotion.

Was that correct or was showing my cards too much? I was hoping it would get him thinking about what happens when you make promises to someone and don't keep them, how it destroys the person's trust in you. I know I have no influence over whether he does or not. I would just like to set the board right so that he could step into that experience if he chooses to.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Fire and Water,
"Was that correct or was showing my cards too much?"

I don't think it's showing your cards too much because the situation you're referring to has nothing to do with your romantic situation with this man. All you've done here is hold him accountable and responsible for his own actions on the project, which is fine ;-)

The Hypergamous Mindset said...

Wow you blog is amazing! I found you after searching PUAs and some of the stuff I've read so far is what I've been telling my friends for years. I'm happily married but I still have single friends and they keep getting screwed over by guys.
But this no contact thing is something I have practiced all my life but not because I did it on purpose. That's just the way I am. I felt so guilty because my friends complained about it all the time, but now after reading this I feel like it have served me in many ways. My friends are always annoyed with me because I don't answe whatsapp messages until days after. When me and my husband were courting he would complain that I never answers his texts or return his calls. But I knew where he work so on my day off I would show up at his job and told him that I read his texts and thanks for leaving nice message. And he was like but you didn't return my call and I would say I was busy so, but this is my way of returning your call because I rather talk to you in person than on the phone. When we went on dates I had to get at least three days notice because I'm the worse. It takes me that long to get ready for an event because a lot of thought goes into my look and outfit and it takes me that much time to think up a look.

I'm still not a huge fan of texting and talking on the phone for long periods of time. I only do that with my sisters. I believe when it comes to dating, meeting face to face and doing fun stuff together is the best way to bond with someone. I will share this article with my friends. Hopefully they will stop being pissed when I don't answer text until days later. They know where to find me anyways.

Myl said...

Hi mirror.
My x broke up with me this april 2. Said that he is not interested in relationship anymore.i accepted it and do the NC. A few days later he msg me to ask how r u? I still stick with NC. Then after a few days aprl 10. He ask if we can get his things from our house. Then i respond ok. We can see each other somewhere. Then no response from his side. It took another days before he insist to get his things. This time i stick with the NC. Until now he keeps on texting, chat or send a miscall every week. Should i give his things? I dont respond to any mesages he sent cause i dont know his motives. I really do want to get back to him but im having a doubt in his action... if this is way to have some time to talk to me or he just want his things.

~ myl

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@myl,
"He asked if he can get his things from our house. I responded ok, we can see each other somewhere. Then no response from his side. . .Should i give his things?"

He's playing games dear. If he really wanted his things, he'd have responded to your offer to meet somewhere in order to do that. The fact that he was actually granted the opportunity to get his things back, and then did not initially respond or follow through -- but then began texting and asking the same question all over again, signals that he's playing games here.

So the next time he asks for his things back, respond with something firm along the lines of, "We can meet on Wednesday at 7PM at [name of place to meet]. I will have your things for you there at that time." And if he does not respond, then you do not meet him at that time.

Or you could respond and say, "Yes, please be here at the house on Wednesday at 7PM. Your things will be on the porch for you (or in the garage, etc.)." And then have his items there for him.

Or better yet, send him a letter in writing (send it certified and keep a copy for yourself as well), that informs him that he has 30 days from the date he left the property to retrieve his items. If he does not make arrangements to retrieve his items within those 30 days, they will be donated.

You'll want to check with your local authorities about that, but I'm pretty certain that 30 days is a standard time from for an individual to claim their property. After those 30 days, the property is then considered "abandoned" if not retrieved. Again, check with your local authorities on that to be certain.

That way, you're actually working with him to help him get his property back, but you're also handling it in a professional manner within the requirements of the law -- and he's no longer permitted to play games about it. (i.e. He knows you're serious and you mean business, and you will not be housing his items for months while he continues to play games and use it as an excuse to continually contact you ;-)

Unknown said...

Dear Mirror,
What do you say if they ask why they haven't heard from you and why you haven't been responding? Do you directly tell them your issue or act like nonchalant? -Zenn

Myl said...

Thank you mirror! Its been 1 week since his last msg to get his things..before he cant make a week and only days before he msg me. actually it just a helmet and pair of slippers. Hahaha maybe he already gave up... he's a good guy but suddenly change and pull disapering act. Since i ignore him he suddenly brokeup with me. Im keeping the NC and currently on my 3rd week. Im still hoping..
But like you said, we should let the man initiate a contact and it should be backup with actions.

~myl

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Unknown,
"What do you say if they ask why they haven't heard from you and why you haven't been responding? Do you directly tell them your issue or act like nonchalant?"

Well, it's a fact that "uncertainty" heightens romantic attraction:

https://psmag.com/uncertainty-heightens-romantic-attraction-643cf19b5a84#.h2aqyb76o

Therefore, I would use that to my advantage -- and keep him uncertain about how I feel, or why I'm behaving the way I'm behaving ;-)

I'd be nonchalant and simply say what THEY say most of the time when THEY do this, "I was really busy." And I'd say nothing more, until they do one of two things. Either ask for a "talk" - or apologize for their treatment. If those two things do not take place, carry on with business as usual. You do not have to explain yourself to someone who is not explaining themselves or their behavior to you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, how do you know if a man is just playing mind games with the no-contact? Rather than not being interested?

I have been seeing a man for about 3 weeks. He seemed really into me during the first week, texting and calling non-stop. A couple of times I did not get back to him right away due to being busy and sick. I did not keep him in the loop about what was happening. He wasn't pleased and kept saying it was rude of me to just stop the conversations, when he was waiting for replies.

I responded to this by telling him I was busy or sick in bed. Now he is suddenly waiting hours or into the next day to respond to me. He will suddenly pop in with a text, I answer, and then he just ghosts! Also he will send one or two texts in the middle of the night (2 or 3am), which he never did before. His texts can now also be just one word - like "sweet" or "cool". His behavior has turned inconsistent.

Do you think he is just getting back at me for taking so long to reply to him, or losing interest?



Unknown said...

Dear M.O.A.,
First and foremost I want to ask if you have a way for us to donate money to your website/brand because you give such good advice it still amazes me that it is free. This is going to be long so read whenever you have time…
I have asked you about this situation about 6 months ago. I have been involved with a man—let’s call him Sweet-- for a year now. From the beginning I made it clear that I was not looking for a relationship (I was not over my ex, and I was still dating around). He did not seem too happy about it and would say things like “I blame him for the mistakes of other men” but he did not seem to protest the situation much either. I found myself thinking about him while on other dates and I became uninterested in all of the other guys I was seeing, including my ex. This happens every time I attempt to date someone new. Our “relationship” progressed normally, he started calling me “baby” after 4-5 months we said “I love you” around 8 months. I know I know, you told me to let him go and find a relationship if I could not give it to him. But I was selfish, I tried to ignore him, but I ran into him at my job (I work in an athletics office and he’s a football player) and he was very upset about it. I felt so bad so I started communicating with him again. I simply do not want to see him with anyone else, I would love to be with him in the future but I know now is not the right time…we’re both students, I’m about to graduate.
We speak every day and see each other about once a week. I admit that I am not as responsive as I should be, it takes me hours to text back and I would much rather talk on the phone or face to face. Lately he says things about me “having another man” and gets upset saying that I don’t want to see him and that I don’t like him. He texted me “We need to talk” he said that I have been “slackin” and not seeing him as much as he wanted. I assured him this was not true, I told him I cared about him and that I loved spending time with him.I thought everything was fine…until last week. He became very unresponsive to my affection, he wouldn’t say “I miss you” back or wouldn’t say “I love you”. I told him I was upset and he did not seem to care at all. He still attempted to see me, but it was because he was near my apartment anyway, not because he made a plan to.
That night he kept asking me I was going to party, he asked me twice which I thought was strange and I felt he was hiding something. When I got to the party he danced a couple of times with the same girl, of course I was jealous but I played it off. He stopped dancing with her to talk to me a couple of times but did not ask to dance with me I did not contact him after than because I was pretty upset even though I did not have the place to be so. He contacted me the next day to ask why I was acting strange, I told him that I wish he would listen to be more but he kind of joked the entire conversation off.
cont...

Unknown said...

...cont.
The last time I spoke to him was two days ago (his birthday) when I happened to drive past him, I texted him and asked where he was headed to but he never texted me back. This is strange because we had been texting all day. I know 100% he did something he does not want me to know about and he never lies to me, so not responding is his way of hiding it from me without technically ‘lying’. I understand that I cannot be mad that he is seeing other women as I was seeing other men in the beginning but it hurts because I can’t help but feel as if he as lost interest in me since after all this time he decides now to start acting this way. I made a huge mistake and slept with another guy last week that I’ve known for about 6 months and I realize it was a mistake because I felt so guilty like I had betrayed Sweet. And it has taken that for me to realize that I want more from him but I’m also feeling really insecure.
Even though it has only been two days since we’ve spoken I am miserable and feel sick. Mirror, what should I do? I have decided to implement NC for about a month because I am still angry that he so blatantly ignored me, but what comes next? Is it too late? Could his love for me really be gone? Any advice is appreciated. Thank you so much.

Pisces girl said...

Amen to that sister Mirror!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sun, May 1, 9:38 PM,
"how do you know if a man is just playing mind games with the no-contact? Rather than not being interested?"

Well, I'm not sure it matters either way. If I understand correctly, this man was not understanding of the fact that you were simply ill -- and when you did explain that to him, rather than be understanding of that at that point - he's taken to using no contact possibly as a game, or has taken to not being as interested as before.

Either way you slice it dear, if a man is going to react like this simply because you were sick. . .is he really a man worth dating in the first place then?

Because life happens. People get sick. People get busy. And when this is the case, if you fly off the handle about it immaturely, instead of accepting an apology and an explanation, then all you're doing is proving that you'd be difficult to date. If he didn't receive an explanation, then I could understand him being a bit upset.

But once someone explains to you that their absence is due to an illness - if you chose to act like a jerk about that instead of showing maturity and understanding, then all you're doing is showing that you are NOT immature, and you are NOT understanding.

And that is someone that will be difficult to date. Due to their lack of maturity and understanding about real life issues that happen every single day, to every single one of us.

"Do you think he is just getting back at me for taking so long to reply to him, or losing interest?"

I don't think it really matters. I think what TRULY matters is that he's proving to you that he's a bit of an immature jerk that's incapable of showing understanding.

If you did this to him 4 or 5 times and he saw a pattern of that excuse popping up all the time, I could understand his behavior. But seriously, ONE TIME you're sick in bed and unable to respond and he acts like this? Even after you've explained that you were ill?

I'm sorry, but that's not a good sign dear. And it's certainly not an excuse to begin no contact, just because someone was ill once.

"I have been seeing a man for about 3 weeks. A couple of times I did not get back to him right away due to being busy and sick. I did not keep him in the loop about what was happening."

You don't have to keep him in the loop of every single step you make. You've only been dating him for 3 weeks. And I'm going to assume that he hasn't asked your for a commitment yet. . .so if there are no commitments in place, then why is he behaving as if there is? Why is he expecting you to answer to him, when you have not obligated yourself to do that and you're not in a committed relationship with him. . .that actually involves a commitment to answer to someone like that?

"He wasn't pleased and kept saying it was rude of me to just stop the conversations, when he was waiting for replies."

But - you DID reply.

It's not like you disappeared and never answered this man ever again. You DID reply. It just wasn't fast enough for him. Again, there are no commitments in place here. And you are not obligated to answer to him in lightening speed as a result.

The only time someone can expect that of another, is when BOTH have made a commitment to one another (entered into an exclusive relationship).

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"First and foremost I want to ask if you have a way for us to donate money to your website/brand because you give such good advice it still amazes me that it is free."

Thank you for asking and acknowleding that dear. There is a Donate button at the very top of the right sidebar on the site (when viewed on a desktop). I've also just created this shortned link to it here:

http://bit.ly/21r9q5Y

"Mirror, what should I do?"

Well, you're going to have to decide if you can give him what he wants. And I suspect what he's wanted all along is to enter into a committed relationship with you. And when he realized that probably wasn't going to happen - he decided to do this.

If you decide that you do not want to give this man a commitment, then I'll have to repeat the same advice you stated I provided you previously, which is -- to let him go. It's not fair to expect him to hang around and wait for you to make a decision about him. So if you do not want that type of a commitment, release him to find one with someone else, as painful as that may be.

If you decide that you are ready to commit to him, I wouldn't make any moves just yet. Instead, I'd wait to see how this all plays out. . .and see if he ends up coming back to you. If he does, then at that time you can share your feelings with him, and inform him that you're ready for a commitment.

I would not confront this issue now with him, because chances are he's use the other woman against you, to hurt you and prove a point. So don't walk into that. Instead, let this situation with this other woman play out. If he does care for you, he'll find himself in your exact shoes. You said, "I made a huge mistake and slept with another guy last week that I’ve known for about 6 months and I realize it was a mistake because I felt so guilty like I had betrayed Sweet. And it has taken that for me to realize that I want more from him."

Sometimes, bad things happen for good reasons. And it's those experiences that help us really drill down to what we do want, and what is important to us. So let that play out, don't interfere, and if it's meant to be dear. . .he'll come back to you. And you two can discuss this at that time, once you've both learned from a similar situation and experienced growth from it that helped both of you realize what you want.

"I have decided to implement NC for about a month because I am still angry that he so blatantly ignored me, but what comes next?"

Only the universe knows the answer to that question ;-)

What comes next depends on a lot of things. It depends on how you feel, how he finds himself feeling, and whether or not this situation was truly meant to be. So don't try to "plan" for that, it's a fruitless effort anyway as so many things can happen, and change, between now and then. Again, let it play out. In 30 days you two may be feeling very different. And that could be in a good way, or in a bad way. The only way you're going to know what to do, is to what and see what happens and how this all plays out.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Is it too late? Could his love for me really be gone?"

Just because someone else comes into the picture doesn't mean they're going to ride off into the sunset and experience a happy ending. Most times, that doesn't happen. Particularly when there's already someone in your life that you care for.

What happens then is, if it's meant to be -- this other new person is actually the very thing that helps you realize that. Helps you realize just how much you do care for the other. It happened to you. You being with that other man didn't end with you running off into the sunset with him, or even wanting to be with him again at all for that matter.

Instead, what it did was actually help you to realize the feelings you had for Sweet.

And the same can happen with him, regarding you, via this other woman. It's very possible that he could come out of that situation realizing just how much he doesn't have feelings for her, and how much he does have feelings for you.

As difficult as it is, let that play out. Because this other woman could end up being the very thing that actually brings the two of you closer together, with you finally realizing you're ready to enter in a committed relationship, and him realizing just how much he does care for you, and understanding where you're coming from ;-)

Unknown said...

Hi MOA,
It has officially been about 5 days since I’ve contacted Sweet; although it feels like an eternity. This NC is a lot more difficult than I expected especially because he has not contacted me. I can’t help but feel like he doesn’t miss me as much as I miss him and that hurts my feelings. How did we go from communicating every day—to this?The longest we’ve gone without speaking in the past year is a week. I ran into him at work 2 days ago and he looked kind of nervous/afraid to see me and he rushed by me all he said was “Hey, how are you? What time do you get off?”. I kept it short and said “good, 1 o’clock”. I have only seen him act like this once and that was when I attempted to ignore him for a week or so (but only lasted 3 days) and he was upset.
Mirror, I am not tempted to contact him at all because I am angry that he can actually go this long without speaking to me. And I feel like if he cared about my feelings he would not ignore me. But that doesn’t stop me from missing him. I feel rather stupid for missing him so much, I feel like I am going through an actual break-up. I feel very sad for most of the day and feel like crying often. Do you have any advice on how to keep myself form going insane?
I know he cares about me but why am I feeling like this? I feel lost and alone. Why can’t I just calm down? I feel like I am always on edge and the only time I feel at peace is when I am sleep. I want my power back. I used to feel so strong but I feel like he has become my weakness.
I also feel like I am viewing this situation from the wrong lens and overthinking things like I always do. I just need some clarity and reassurance; and some motivation to keep going.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"It has officially been about 5 days since I’ve contacted Sweet . .I can’t help but feel like he doesn’t miss me as much as I miss him and that hurts my feelings."

In order for folks to miss each other - the time and space to actually cause those feelings to surface must exist. And I can tell you, 5 days in a mans world, is nothing LOL. Which is the reason that NC is initiated for 30 days. Because it takes that long for feelings to surface, and for people to begin to actually sort through those feelings.

"I ran into him at work 2 days ago and he looked kind of nervous/afraid to see me and he rushed by me all he said was “Hey, how are you? What time do you get off?”. I kept it short and said “good, 1 o’clock”."

Then - we're literally talking about 2 days here dear. Certainly not enough time for any of this to even surface, let alone be sorted through.

"Do you have any advice on how to keep myself form going insane?"

Stay busy - it helps. But short of that, there is no magic pill or magic fix. When we experience pain in life, if we truly want to GROW and evolve. . .that requires walking through the pain, experiencing it, processing it - and coming out the other side stronger for it.

"I know he cares about me but why am I feeling like this?"

It's fear and anxiety - and nothing more. And when it comes to these things, we have to rely on our coping skills to walk us through them. You can live in the fear and anxiety, or you can actively manage it through coping skills. The choice is ours - we just have to be strong enough to make the choice to overcome them.

And I'm not saying that's easy - it isn't. Change is never easy and it's never comfortable - ever. But if we face it head on and learn how to cope with it and manage it successfully. . .we end up much stronger and better off for it.

And ultimately, we become the change we wish to see as a result ;-)

"I want my power back."

Then you take it back. And you do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel good about yourself again, to empower you. If that means a new hair color or hair cut, then so be it. If it means entirely reinventing yourself, then so be it. If it means picking up a hobby you once enjoyed again, then so be it. If it means exercising to release the anxiety in a healthy manner, then so be it.

The pain is going to be there - but if you counter-act it with an overwhelming amount of positive behaviors, it doesn't hurt so bad and eventually it diminishes.

Combat the negative with the positive.

And I wrote this piece about the things I think every woman needs in order to become the strongest version of herself. Some of which may seem counter-productive and negative, but that actually grant you strength in the long run:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/12/woman-must-have-happiness-dating.html

Anonymous said...

@Jasmine,
"I want my Power Back". Then definitely implement No Contact and stick with it. No matter how tempted you are to reach out and initiate a call or a text. If he calls you, let it go to voice mail. If he sends you a text, Ignore it. (Unless, he's left you a message saying he wants to talk about the situation--then respond). That's what I did. I implemented NC with a guy and he tried to contact me in the midst of it, but I totally ignored him. when he left messages, I could hear the frustration in his voice. It was hard, but I totally ignored him. He was not calling or texting to apologize (which he certainly should have done), so I had nothing to say to him. That was over the summer. he's since called and texted again. when he does, sometimes I ignore, other times, I'll respond two or three days later and then I'm very generic with the response (not my usual, bubbly responses). You HAVE TO let these guys know that you are getting on with your life and not at their disposal. The guy that I implemented no contact with is someone I really like. and probably against my better judgment, I still like him. But this time around, I'm doing things a lot differently.

Unknown said...

@Anonymous May 6, 2012 11:12 AM
Thank you for your response and your advice. I miss him a lot but oddly enough I am not tempted to contact him because he has not even tried to contact me yet. I'm getting frustrated because I need him to contact me in order for him to know I'm ignoring him. It's officially been a week since we've spoken and that is the longest I've gone without speaking to him in the past year. Sometimes I just wonder what he is up to. Sometimes I feel guilty because there has been signs and he's told me that he's wanted a relationship and so many times I have denied him and brushed his feelings away. He started to push back lately and I could sense something was wrong and then all of a sudden he stopped texting me even after I asked him a question. Am I stupid for still loving him and still thinking about a future with him? I know men don't think like women but I find it hard to believe that he actually misses me if he still has not reached out to me. Out of all of this I do feel like I've learned a lesson and if I get another chance to show him how I feel I will. But until then, I guess space is what he needs.

Fire & Water said...

@Jasmine,
I totally understand how you feel - that this is really hurting for you right now. But keep in mind what Mirror told you: a week is nothing, literally *nothing* in a man's world. If you read through the site, you'll see how often she says it takes a man at least a month to start processing his emotions. So, all those thing you're feeling right now? He won't even start feeling anything like that for another three weeks (as long as you don't contact him in any way). Hang in there, girl! Don't feel guilty and keep your thoughts happy & positive - that's what will draw positive energy toward you. Sending good wishes your way!
Fire & Water

Anonymous said...

Hi Jasmine. This is Anonymous May 6, 2016 11:12. As MOA would say, A week is like 1 minute in "man time". They usually contact you around the two month mark. that's what mine was doing. after no contact for two months, he sent me a text (a lame one at that) and I ignored him. then two more months after that (it was Christmas time) he stops by my house to drop of a gift. I had nothing for him and did not regret it one bit (I no longer reward bad behavior). I accepted the gift he gave me and sent him on his way. about a month after that, I needed him to do some work for me, so I contacted him. kept it very business like. when it came time for me to pay him, I told him when he could come around to get his money. well, he was up to his old tricks and didn't contact me for days. I really think he wanted me to call and text and chase. well that wasn't happening. so I just mailed the money to him. See, before, I made myself too available to him and as hard as this is for me to admit, I did do a lot of chasing. Well that is not the case anymore. I no longer initiate calls or text messages (which is very hard for me but it's getting easier). When he does text, I'm not so quick to jump on his text. I may answer in a day or two (if at all). As for your situation, you have to give him a chance to really miss you. Brace yourself because it might take 2 or 3 or 6 months. In the meantime, take care of you. Do things that make you happy. go out with your girlfriends etc. if he does call you to make plans, you choose the day and time--make him accommodate your schedule. Like you, I've learned some valuable lessons. And like I said, I'm doing things a lot different now.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, why didn't I find your site 6 weeks ago??!! Would have saved me a lot of tears and humiliation. Will maybe still tears but definitely would not have acted so pathetic. Is it too late now to start no contact?

My situation is sort of different and to make a long story short, my boyfriend of 3 years asked for a break after a huge fight over suspicions and some misunderstandings. I was fighting the break for the first three weeks but later submitted. During this time we would still communicate via email or text. Mostly he would text me asking some things. I was still helping him out with some things so I couldn't break communication. But even than I would still be telling him how much I miss him and to come back. By the 4th week I was the one who suggested no contact up to the end of our break which was 2 months. We started the break end of March. He texted me a couple times but I didn't reply back. Our no contact only laster 1 week and I had broke it because I had car issues and texted him for help. It's both our cars but I am currently driving it. He texted me back so fast which sort of made me think no contact worked because before he would always wait half an hour to an hour to text me back. But than that evening he texted me first asking how the car was and I said I was over worried. Than I know I shouldn't have but I texted him asking how he was. He said the no contact was not a good idea and he didn't like it. It sounded as if because of my no contact suggestion, made him realize he didn't just want t break anymore. We texted back and forth some more mostly with me wanting him back again. Ugh ... I know I'm pathetic. Anyways, next day i wrote him a "letter him" letter and my plan was to just let him go. He never responded to my letter but has continued to text me. I don't want to be friends. I'm so confused by his actions. Will implementing the NC work now? Or should I even be implementing this? I feel like doing it now he will take it the wrong way and just hate me. On the other hand if I keep communicating than soon I will just be a "friend". He has just texted me now, what should I do?? Just spring this NC on him all of a sudden???

Dilemma

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dilemma,
"I was still helping him out with some things so I couldn't break communication."

Not sure I understand why you couldn't break communication. Meaning, if someone tells me they need a break from me - there's no way that I'm still going to be putting myself out to help them. Why continue making yourself available to someone who just informed you they need a break from you, ya' know?

"He said the no contact was not a good idea and he didn't like it."

Perfect - that means it's working.

If he doesn't like it, then that means he likes having access to you. And if he likes having access to you, the only way to accomplish that is to reinstate the relationship and work on the issues that are causing challenges within it.

The entire point of no contact is to make the other person uncomfortable with the fact that they've lost you. . .so that they realize they miss you. Which then forces them to rethink why they've let you go in the first place.

"I don't want to be friends. I'm so confused by his actions."

As long as this man can still have access to you whenever he chooses without a commitment from him in return - that's what he's going to do. If he can get away with seeing/talking to you, without having to commit to you, that's what he'll do. If he can get away with bopping out of and into your life whenever he chooses, that's what he'll do.

And why wouldn't he when you think about it - it's the best of both worlds. He gets to live the single life, while falling back onto an old girlfriend for the support he needs whenever he chooses. He's expecting an ex girlfriend to remain committed to making herself available to him - yet he doesn't offer that same commitment in return.

When a man breaks up with you, all bets are off. Period. Case closed. And you then give him exactly what he's asked for. . .a break. That's the consequence of asking for one. When you do that, you're actually going to receive one. You're not going to get the luxury of bouncing in and out of that other persons life at will anymore, and having them be there for you.

Instead, the CONSEQUENCE of that decision MUST be felt:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

The only time someone may realize that they can't live without you. . .is when you force them to attempt to live without you. And that means you cannot be available to them at all, ever, no matter what.

You have to keep reminding yourself that this was HIS choice, not YOURS - and now he has to LIVE WITH IT. He doesn't get the luxury of having the best of both worlds - living the single life while falling back onto an ex girlfriend for support.

"I feel like doing it now he will take it the wrong way and just hate me."

But - why would that matter? He did break up with you, and quite honestly, HE should be worried that YOU might hate HIM for doing that. Why worry about how the person who's just asked for a break from you feels? Why worry about what they think about you? They're not worrying about you or how you feel or if you might hate them, ya' know?

"He has just texted me now, what should I do?"

Only you can decide what's best for you dear. You have free will, and at times that can change things. . .but that change usually starts with you.

When you change your actions, others tend to change their actions towards you. So if you want his respect, you have to respect yourself first. If you want his attention, you need to give yourself the attention you deserve first (love yourself). If you want him to highly value you, you have to place a high value on yourself first.

And in order to garner someone's respect, gain their attention and have them place a high value on you - you have to become something "scarce" to them. And once you become scarce, they place a higher value on you (instead of taking it for granted that you'll always be there no matter how poorly they treat you, they're now excited you're finally speaking to them after being scarce for so long). And once they place a higher value on you, they begin to respect you more (because you respect yourself and no longer put up with their crap - instead, you set boundaries and draw a line in the sand). And once they begin to respect you more, they will have a natural desire to draw nearer to you (they will begin to seek you out).

It's a psychological process. But it cannot take place and begin to unfold unless, and until, you are no longer available to them in any way, shape or form. . .and they are forced to feel an "end" and believe they've lost you for good ;-)

Anonymous said...

There's a saying which I love: Once you know your value, stop giving people discounts. I had to learn that lesson the hard way. I've been on your site since the summer and everything you say is so right. I've employed a lot of the techniques and mindsets that you suggest and I have to say, I've been feeling so much better. I never realized I was doing things the wrong way until I came to this site. As much as it hurt me to realize that the guy I was seeing was taking me for granted and disrespecting me, once I did, I started doing things differently. I went complete No Contact on him. every time he tried to contact me, I could hear the frustration in his voice. One time, I had to lift the NC, and he was back to his old tricks and was sometime-y about answering my texts and was forcing me to chase. Well, this was not happening this time. When he sends me texts messages I either ignore or at the very least, I mirror what he did. Another great saying: A taste of their own medicine makes them sick.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 12, 10:40 AM,
"I've employed a lot of the techniques and mindsets that you suggest and I have to say, I've been feeling so much better."

And that's what it's REALLY about. Whether you get the guy or not is not what's important.

What's really important is that us women come out of these experiences relatively unscathed and stronger, able to stand on our own two feet without needing validation or acceptance from a man to provide us reassurance of our value.

Dating is miserable when you're seeking that type of validation and reassurance from a man. It's MUCH more ENJOYABLE when you don't "need" that from them, and instead, already carry that within yourself ;-)

"I never realized I was doing things the wrong way until I came to this site."

Well, it's not that it's wrong necessarily - so much as it's self-sabotaging and causes lasting damaging to approach dating in an opposite manner. ("Needy" versus self-fulfilled and confident.)

"Another great saying: A taste of their own medicine makes them sick."

It's a bitter pill to swallow, that's for sure.

And what it TRULY signals to us women when we encounter men that feel the need to use manipulation to get us to chase -- is that you're dealing with a man that secretly feels insecure and lacks the confidence and social skills to go about dating in a masculine, leading, upfront manner.

It signals that YOU are STRONGER than the man you're dealing with ;-)

Dating rituals exist everywhere in Mother Nature. And it's when we try to divert from them and our natural gender rolese that we create confusion, self-doubt and unnecessary complexity.

I'm very happy to hear that you're feeling stronger and more valuable than ever before by shifting your mindset from one of "less" to one of worthiness :-)

Anonymous said...

I'm Anonymous May 12, 10:40am. Thank you MOA. I wish I knew about your site 3 years ago. I think I would have spared myself a lot of heartache.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Thank-you so much for your response. I really wish I had this sort of support from the beginning. I would have been much stronger with more will-power. I am planning to not contact him until or if he wants to resume our relationship. I will come to your site whenever I am feeling weak. This morning has been a major setback in how I feel. I love him so much even though I know he doesn't deserve my love. I have done so much for him and he can just walk away w/o any remorse. There are days when I'm angry and hate him. But most of the time its just heart break and despair. I've cried every day since our break. I've been trying to keep busy, working on myself but I can't stop crying.

Although no contact will help me heal, I do still hold on to a glimmer of hope that it will bring him back. Its been 7 weeks since we took our break. We saw e/o twice in the 7 weeks but just for a brief period. I still believe he is the love of my life. I've never felt the way I have with anyone. Fyi, he is a Sag and I'm a Leo. I also read your forum on Dating a Sag. You are so right about everything. When we first met, I was so confident and a bit full of myself. Now all I feel is loneliness. Even with everything he has put me through I still see the good in him. I know its still there. Thats what I am holding onto, the him I fell in love with.

Am I lying to myself? Has it already been too long apart for breaking contact to work? He also has baggage. Ex wife, kids, a close friend who has also been in love with him forever and who will also do anything for him. Just feeling completely hopeless today.

Dilemma

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

One more thing, he is also a very smart guy. He can surely out play me in no contact. :( He has me totally figured out. Would seeking out his friend for friendly companionship be considered bad?

I know I don't need him but I want him. I don't need him to validate me and I know I can get another. But right now I can't imagine feeling this way towards anybody else.

Thank-you
Dilemma

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

Me again, I read previous posts where you said men like submissive women. You hit it right on the head. My boyfriend or ex or whatever he is now always wanted me to be submissive. I have no clue how. I didn't pursue him. He pursued me. I never wanted to be alpha. Every time we had a disagreement he always pointed out that I had to have the last word or I always have to fight til the end. Is having my own opinion considered alpha? I'm a Leo and in Chinese astrology an OX. Both are the most stubborn signs. I've also been very independent for most of my life. But with him for three years I have changed quit a bit. I have tried to be submissive but I honestly don't know what that means. I've even asked him teach me to be submissive. Again reading all your posts is keeping me intact. Thank-you!!

Dilemma

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dilemma,
"Would seeking out his friend for friendly companionship be considered bad?"

Bad for you? Yes, it would be. Because let's face it, friendship is not what you're seeking. As a result, you will always want more, and being around him as a friend, or even speaking to him as one -- is only going to cause you a great deal of pain :-(

And there's no reason to willingly put yourself through all that dear. It's much easier to make a clean break and leave him in the past. . .versus dwelling in the past indefinitely, secretly longing for more all the time.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Thank-you for replying back so quickly. My last post "Would seeking out his friend for friendly companionship be considered bad?"

I actually meant seek out his friends, who I know either liked me or had a crush on me, for companionship. Nothing more except just have a drink with friends from his side. He has not said anything to his friends about us taking a break. In fact he is flat out avoiding any social events that would normally involve us going together.

There is no way I would seek him out for just friendship. One of the main reasons he asked for break was because I flat out told him I could not be "just friends" with him. I guess it reaffirms what you said that he likes having access to me .... sigh :(


Dilemma

Unknown said...

Hi everyone,
It’s me again, I’ve posted a couple of times in the past few weeks if you want to see my situation. Tomorrow marks two weeks since I’ve implemented NC. Well actually, it also marks 2 weeks since Sweet has not texted me back. I would just like some advice and maybe motivation coming from personal experience from anyone who is familiar with my situation. We’ve literally talked almost every day for EXACTLY a year, lol. Two weeks is by far the longest we’ve ever been without communication, and I cannot seem to figure out why I miss him. I feel like I should be angrier than I am, but I am rather sad and regretful.
How can he go this long without talking to me? It seems as if he is not afraid to lose me or live without me. Any other time he has acted rude he has always contacted me within 2 days apologizing, and he always seemed nervous that I may not forgive him. But now…this? I know that I sound repetitive but he is literally the first thought on my mind when I wake up and every time I check my phone I’m hoping there is a message from him.
I am definitely not against dating other men but I feel as if I would be doing them an injustice because I am in love with someone else and I would just be using them for company and attention. I am also feeling vengeful and tempted to rub another guy in his face (he gets really jealous but tries so hard to hide it, it’s rather cute actually;)) but I know making someone jealous only turns them away and does not make them want you. It’s just my immature side freaking out, wanting attention from him.
I need advice from people who are not my friends because I honestly feel like they have no clue what they are talking about, especially viewing their romantic life. Some of them only tell me things to make me feel better. Do you guys think that I am overreacting?
I know it doesn’t matter much but he is a Taurus in every sense (I find myself very attracted to Taurus’ romantically and friendship-wise even though I am a Sagittarius and we are not supposed to be compatible). He is very stubborn, last time I ignored him for a three days, he ignored me for exactly 24 hours before responding back, lol. He is not confrontational so I know that if he thinks I’m mad at him for ignoring me he will avoid the situation for as long as possible.
I know that he loves and cares about me but I also feel sort of delusional for saying/thinking this because if someone cared about you that much would they do this? Wouldn’t they consider your feelings? But it hurts to imagine that all of his feelings for me are gone. Sometimes I feel like this is Karma for things that I may have selfishly put him through. Or maybe it’s a sign. Thank you all for reading, it honestly makes me feel better just talking about it. Thoughts? Am I crazy? Over-thinking?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dilemma,
"I actually meant seek out his friends, who I know either liked me or had a crush on me, for companionship. Nothing more except just have a drink with friends from his side."

No - I would not do that. Not unless they were YOUR friends FIRST. Because that looks like a plotted move. It would look like you're moving in on his territory, setting yourself up in his circle so that you create opportunities to see him, keep tabs on him, etc. And men can, and do, often interpret that as desperation. And that's not the impression you want to give to a man about yourself.

Instead, you give the impression of confidence. You stand strong on your own, and you keep moving forward with life, never skipping a beat. As a matter of fact, you're so busy, and others are in demand of your time so much as well, that you hardly even notice his absence. Because you're having fun living life and enjoying yourself - without him.

When a woman behaves like that, it makes a man view her a differently. He begins to view her as "in demand" and valuable, and then he starts to wonder to himself why he let her go in the first place. And he starts to think, "Hmm, maybe I had her all wrong? She's doing fine without me. How can she do fine without me? How is she even living without me right now? Why isn't she at home crying? Why isn't she blowing up my phone right now? Why isn't she begging me to take her back?"

And before you know it, the more you're out having fun and living your life, the more those questions begin to roll around in his head - so much so, that eventually, a large majority of men circle around to find out the answers. . .because their ego cannot believe that they weren't as valuable to you as they thought they were.

And you're acting in the EXACT OPPOSITE manner that they EXPECTED you to after walking away from you ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"Do you guys think that I am overreacting?"

I think your feelings are valid. However, I think you're expecting immediate results and this expectation is setting you up to feel a sense of "urgency" when there should be none. And this sense of urgency is creating heightened anxiety.

It doesn't matter how long you've gone without speaking the past dear. That's the past. This is the future and new pages are being written. Please understand that you may not hear from this man for a month or two - or even three. And please understand that that can actually be a GOOD thing. Because many times, that kind of space is needed for someone to understand that they really do care about another.

You don't reach emotional epiphanies in life or major learning milestones in a few days or even a couple weeks. And it's not possible to entirely process your emotions and feelings within that short time frame as well. There are times in life when you have to rely on your coping skills to get you through these periods and you have to let things unfold in due time, as they need to.

You have to suppress the desire to jump in and begin attempting to control things, and instead have faith that if things are meant to be -- they will be.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I also feel sort of delusional for saying/thinking this because if someone cared about you that much would they do this?"

Sure they would dear. Because there are times in life when people realize they have to take care of themselves and provide themselves enough time and space to work their own feelings out. Please understand that right now - he's taking care of himself most likely. He's testing his emotions, testing how strong they are for you, and testing to see if he can move on without you, because you've stated that you're unwilling to commit to him.

And that's a VERY natural way to feel in that situation dear.

Put yourself in HIS shoes. You're looking at this from your perspective and wondering why he's not giving you his attention. But you have to look at this from his perspective too. If you dated a man that repeatedly denied committing himself to you, would you not eventually reach a point where you felt you needed a break to process all that's happened, and how you feel about that man, and whether or not you wanted to continue trying with him?

Again, that's a very natural way to feel as a human being dear.

"Wouldn’t they consider your feelings?"

Sure - but hasn't that been what he's been doing for years already? I believe you stated you've been involved with him for a considerable amount of time, and that entire time - he's accommodated you and your feelings of not wanting to commit to him, and he's stuck by you all that time, placing his own feelings and wants and needs aside, so that he could accommodate yours instead?

So again, looking at this from his perspective dear -- when does this man get the opportunity to tend to his own feelings, ya' know? He's been give, give, giving for a long time now, without receiving what it is that he truly wanted in return. That's exhausting, and rather unrewarding for all that effort. . .and he's simply taking some time to himself most likely, to be out there single for a while and see how he feels about it. Does he want to continue doing so, or is he willing to set his own wants and needs aside to participating in this with you again because his feelings for you are so strong? That's most likely what he's doing right now, and it's understandable given the situation.

"But it hurts to imagine that all of his feelings for me are gone."

Feelings for someone don't disappear in 14 days, and just because they're currently not in contact with you doesn't mean they don't still have them.

"Sometimes I feel like this is Karma for things that I may have selfishly put him through."

Maybe, maybe not. But either way, you need to stand strong, and let this play out and unfold as it may. If it is karmic repercussions, you cannot control that anyway. And if it is karmic repercussions, let it play out so that your debt is paid off -- and you get to start fresh with a clean slate, with or without him.

Because again, if things are meant to be - they WILL be dear. Have faith that whatever is meant to be will be. And whatever path that takes you on, be prepared to travel along it with strength and confidence, knowing that it's for the best ;-)

Unknown said...

Dear MOA,
You are so right. I suppose I have been rather selfish throughout this entire thing. I guess I just felt blindsided because he never told me he was fed up with our situation and wanted space; he kind of just…disappeared. I never took time to think that the lack of commitment from me would bother him so much. He was free to date around as well. He was getting all of the benefits of a relationship (sex, company, someone to talk to and help him) just without commitment (nor access to my company whenever he wanted); I thought men liked that…I thought he was okay with that, especially since we are so young (early 20s). I just wanted to keep it light and fun.
Now that I think about some of our previous conversations, when we first began talking he told me he was looking for something more serious, he did not want to just “chill”. A couple of times he’s mentioned that he felt I was only using him for sex (LOL, SO NOT TRUE). I probably should have paid attention more when he expressed himself because I know it takes a lot for him to do that. Especially when he started questioning me about my future goals and when I wanted to get married and have children and looking for his place in that (yikes!). Sometimes I did not know how to respond to his affection because I am not good at that. I am very loving but not affectionate (I have been told I come off as cold:( ) I never knew that about myself I just assumed everyone knew how I felt about them. I honestly think that my last relationship did more damage than I realized. I am afraid of commitment because I am afraid of being hurt….after putting so much effort into something only for it to fail.
Overall I think that I need to calm down and be patient, something I am definitely not, but definitely something I need to learn to be. And I want to thank you for being honest and putting me in my place. What I am taking from your advice is that I need to give it time and not have any expectations. What will be, will be.

Anonymous said...

Can you create a post of all the comments in which NC actually helped rekindle their relationships? From all the comments read, majority were NC newly implemented or it didn't work or they did come back but they didn't want them anymore. I would like to see success stories of when NC worked to renew an old relationship.

Thanks!
Dilemma

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

I'm crazy and confused. I'm softening because of his last text. Should I have implemented NC in my situation? He asked for a break not a break up. He said he needed to work on himself. Clear his head, whatever that means. Get healthy again. He has been depressed about gaining weight and not feeling good. Although thats not the main reason for the break or our last fight that is his reason now. Should I be so unsupportive and turn my back while he insist he is working on himself for "our" sake? I don't know what to believe or what to do in this case. I will try not to post twenty thousands comments and just create one long one. Sorry for taking up so much space. I just really want another chance with him. Really need your help and I only remember or bring up questions as they pop up in my thoughts. And I have a million thoughts running through my head.

When he texted asking if I've moved on, does he hope I've moved on? Does he care? Maybe thats what he wanted all along. For me to move on so he can not be the bad guy ...?? As you can tell I'm a mess.

Should I just respond saying oh work has been super busy and not answer him about anything related to relationship or should I just keep him wondering? I think now he is upset and he is guessing if this is a strategy. I'm not good at chess. whats my next move?

Dilemma

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...


@Dilemma,
"I would like to see success stories of when NC worked to renew an old relationship."

That's not really how I advocate using no contact, because the reality is that we cannot force someone to love us or want to be with us - regardless of what we do. So going into it having that expectation can often set us up for disappointment.

While it will often work to get their attention back, that does not guarantee a happy ending unfortunately.

The real benefit of no contact is to help you emotionally detach. So that you can gain clarity once more, without emotions influencing decisions. Which is why you see so many women here not even wanting the man back. . .because once they gain clarity, they see him for what he truly is.

Which is often a man that wasn't treating them right, and one that wasn't worthy of their attention and affections in the first place ;-)

Anonymous said...

And think about it: do you REALLY want a man back who disrespected you and treated you poorly the first time? That's like giving someone a loaded gun and saying "here, try shooting me again because you missed the last time"

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Dilemma,
"He asked for a break not a break up."

A break is a break. Whether it's temporary or not really doesn't matter. Once you break from something, you're not longer attached to it.

"Should I be so unsupportive and turn my back while he insist he is working on himself for "our" sake?"

I don't feel this man is being straight with you. He's changing his story as time goes on, "Although thats not the main reason for the break or our last fight that is his reason now."

And if he intends to work on himself, then that's great. He needs to go and do that on his own. It's not fair to ask someone to wait for you while you're getting your life or yourself together. He asked for a break. And the consequence of that. . .is actually have TO EXPERIENCE ONE.

"I don't know what to believe"

When a man's WORDS and his ACTIONS do NOT align - then you cannot believe the words. That signals to you that honesty is not taking place.

He says he needs a break (WORDS), but then he contacts you regularly and expects you to make yourself available to him (ACTIONS). He says the break is for one reason (WORDS), and then the next week he now says it's for another reason (WORDS), and still - this man has not actually even taken the very break he's asked for and instead, keeps leaning on you and expecting your support in return for him pushing you away (ACTIONS).

This man doesn't know what he wants.

And if you stick around for this, because he doesn't know what he wants, your going to place yourself at risk of him stringing you along and yanking you in different directions every time he vacillates and is indecisive about what he wants. He needs to go figure that out on his own, and not pull you into his confusion, placing you at risk of being collateral damage to his indecisiveness and experiencing pain as a result.

"I just really want another chance with him."

Why dear? Why wish to be with a man that chose not to be with you?

"When he texted asking if I've moved on, does he hope I've moved on? Does he care?"

He's afraid you're going to get wise to what he's doing here, and no longer make yourself available to him as a result. He's afraid that you're going to figure out that he's attempting to string you along right now. He's afraid that once you figure that out, you're going to do what you should be doing. . .which is walking away and giving him the break he's asked for.

He's expecting, and waiting, for you to leave dear - because he knows that if it were him, and someone did this to him, that's EXACTLY what he'd do. He'd walk away. So he's waiting for that to happen and for you to figure that out, because he's expecting it. (And probably secretly wondering why you haven't done so already.)

"For me to move on so he can not be the bad guy"

It's quite possible. I've seen people do this. Men and women both. I've seen people create a fight, create distance, and play the "whoa is me" card - expecting the other person to be the one to make a real final break, so they can then blame that person for ending the relationship. And in those cases, the individual is seeking a way out, but is not strong enough to make the final break and let go for themselves.

"Should I just respond saying oh work has been super busy and not answer him about anything related to relationship or should I just keep him wondering?"

Well, you're commenting on an article titled, "Dating: When, Why and How to Use No Contact." And you're attempting to implement no contact. Responding to him and answering to him -- is contact.

Chleo said...

Hello Mirror and Ladies

Mirror I am curious about one thing, if I may: do you think flirting is a good practice or it should be avoided? I have got no experience on the matter and there is a man who tries to flirt with me all the time, although he hasn't made other moves, at least not yet. Thank you

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Chleo,
"do you think flirting is a good practice or it should be avoided?"

Well, I think there's a time and a place for everything. Because every action you take says a lot to others about you. I believe the goal of flirting is to use it wisely to encourage a man you're interested in to continue advancing towards you.

I don't believe it should be used as a tactic to receive male attention from anyone and everyone, and I don't want to encourage men that I'm NOT interested in to continue advancing towards me.

So for instance:

I wouldn't walk into a party and just start flirting with random men. (I wouldn't be the aggressor, and I wouldn't want to give the impression that I do this with every man I meet and, therefore, I'm just a big tease that isn't to be taken seriously by ANY man.)

And if a man I wasn't interested in started flirting with me, I'd keep a sense of humor and be kind and courteous, but I would not reciprocate and flirt back. (Because I don't want to lead anyone on or encourage more flirting and/or advances from men that I'm not genuinely interested in.)

And if a man I was interested in approached me and began flirting with me, I'd reciprocate and flirt back. (Because I AM interested in this one, and I want to encourage him to advance towards me - with either more flirting and/or ask for my number.)

The signals you send out to others will determine their actions towards you.

So it's best not to send the wrong signals to the wrong people for the wrong reasons and instead, use flirting wisely to draw men that you are interested in (and that are expressing an interest in you) -- closer towards you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

My boyfriend of 6 months broke up with me about 2 and a half weeks ago. He said that he doesn't see a future with us, that we fight too much, and that he's too stressed out with me. We broke up once before for a short period and didn't talk for weeks (I employed NC and he contacted me). He didn't think we could ever resolve our issues and I guess he didn't love me enough to want to work things out. I think these are workable issues. After our breakup, I tried 2 times to talk to him and get him to change his mind. He didn't respond!!! I know that was dumb of me. I tried because he didn't seem sure when he was breaking up! He kept on saying how confused he was and unsure, then he just said, "OK, I'm done" and made the final cut. But, he paced for a good 10 minutes before leaving.

From then, I completely cut him off. I deleted him off everything. Haven't talked to him since. I've been hanging out with friends, working out, etc. I talked it out with friends and have been trying to dissect everything, but finally stopped trying to overanalyze it all.

I am pissed because he went on dating sites just days after he broke up with me! It makes me feel like ill. Makes me feel like he never loved or cared cause he moved on so fast and is trying to date other women. He didn't respond to me and went on dating sites instead. He is friends will all the girls he's dated in the past, except for me. I refused friendship and told him that if we're done, I will not be his friend.

Thing is, I want to go on dating apps and date others. I'm done overthinking things and hoping for reconciliation. I've accepted it. I am employing NC. But, how can I employ NC and go on the same dating apps as him? Wouldn't that still be "access" to me? Doesn't NC require that the person has no idea what you are doing? Your help is appreciated.

Unknown said...

Dear MOA,
I am on week 4 of NC (and not hearing from him) and it's not seeming to get easier. But I am still going to stick it out, seeing as though I have no choice, lol.
But I wanted to ask you a question about Social Media. Does it make NC less effective if they can still see your posts on SM like Twitter? I don't want to block him because that would make it seem like I cared. Also, I don't know if you are familiar with SnapChat but is it bad if he can see things that I post on SnapChat?
I see that he posts things on SnapChat but I don't click on them because the app tells you who views your snaps and I don't want him to think I care enough to view his Snaps.
It also seems like he's posting a lot more on SnapChat lately and it makes me sad because he seems happy and unbothered. Unlike myself, whom just acts happy and unbothered.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"Does it make NC less effective if they can still see your posts on SM like Twitter?"

I'm not sure it makes NC less effective. Because you're not speaking directly to one another. Naturally, however, to not have access to snapshots of your life like that would obviously pique more curiosity from them.

"he seems happy and unbothered. Unlike myself, whom just acts happy and unbothered."

What makes you think he's not acting? You do realize that social media is hardly even like real life anymore, correct? More than two thirds of what is seen and shared on social media now is used to create a false illusion. The false illusion of an adventurous and fun lifestyle is probably the number one thing that is most often misrepresented.

I've seen people take pictures to post on social media. And while this is taking place, things are just - kinda' boring truthfully. You're bored, so you want to post a photo to social media. So you do. And then I've looked at these posts and thought, "Gee, that LOOKS like a lot more fun than it actually was. That was a pretty boring day and a rather mundane event. But in this photo, everyone looks like they're having a blast."

The blast lasted the entire 3 seconds the image was shot. After that, everyone went back to their seats and resumed - mundane behavior LOL.

It's so very easy to create a false impression on social media. As a result, you really can't take anything you see there as hard fact. Because it's too easy to manipulate into some other false impression.

Family reunion in real life - snooze fest.
That same family reunion as portrayed on Facebook - wildly exciting.

It's way too easy to manipulate social media dear. Don't take it too seriously, and don't read too much into it. Because a LOT of what's planted there is MEANT to mislead those viewing it ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 24, 2:59 AM,
"Makes me feel like he never loved or cared cause he moved on so fast and is trying to date other women."

Actually - that behavior can also indicate that someone is in pain and attempting to cope. Using that as a distraction and an attempt to move forward.

I often suggest that here to women experiencing the same. However, to do this 2 or 3 days after a break up is a bit of a rush. It does pay to take some time to heal and process things a bit first. After a few weeks would seem a bit more reasonable.

Either way, he's in pain, he probably is unsure of himself and his decision, so he's kinda' seeking a distraction from it all. He will be forced to take some time to process things though. If he's not going to do that right after the break up, it will catch up with him later and he'll need to take a break and pull back and think about things.

Which is why 30 days is such a magic number LOL ;-)

For some reason, it seems human beings struggle to process feelings for that average amount of time, before they begin to see a bit more clearly and possibly come to the conclusion that they feel otherwise, and made a big mistake.

So don't write him off just yet ;-)

"how can I employ NC and go on the same dating apps as him?"

Don't worry about that. At this point, all bets are off anyway. If things change later on down the line, or feelings change later on down the line, then so be it. But for right now, it sounds like you have processed your feelings about this and you're ready for something new. And you should explore your options at this point.

"Wouldn't that still be "access" to me?"

Not if you're not contacting him there or responding to him there. If there's no contact on the dating site, it's still no contact.

"Doesn't NC require that the person has no idea what you are doing?"

It varies for different people and different situations. But the ultimate goal is to no speak to, or respond to, the person for at least 30 days. Even if they contact you, the point is to not respond. It helps both individuals explore their feelings, process things, and gain clarity about the situation. Because our emotions can skew our realities and our perspectives. Sometimes when you're too close to a person or situation, it's hard to see what is obvious to others.

So not only will it help you emotionally detach, it will make you feel empowered and stronger, and it help you gain clarity as well.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the advice MOA! Sorry for the repeat comment. I wasn't sure if the first comment went through, but it did. So thanks!

I am strict NC now and not even going to bother on that dating site. I did hear that he is starting to date this girl. He was somewhat interested in her before me and him moved to the relationship stage. I'm trying to move on, but hearing this pissed me off. He is already dating this other chick, just less than a few weeks after our break-up.

He signed up for those sites after I blocked and deleted him off everything (what else was I going to do, especially when he didn't respond to my attempts to reconcile the relationship?).

It really makes me feel horrible, cause all I can think of now is him and this girl getting along, getting into a relationship, and being happy together and him treating her so good. I heard from my friend that he hasn't logged on in awhile, which might mean that he's trying to explore things with her. I am so upset. It makes me feel like he didn't care about me at all. That he's forgotten me, after all we went through together.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 26, 4:16 PM,
"all I can think of now is him and this girl getting along, getting into a relationship, and being happy together and him treating her so good"

How often have your dating situations turned into what you describe above? How often do they end with "and they lived happily ever after?"

LOL, get what I'm saying?

We always naturally jump to that conclusion, but the reality is that that is really tough to find. You don't just stumble onto it. And it only comes around a few times in a lifetime, if that.

The odds of him riding off into the sunset with her to live happily ever after. . .are about as good as your odds of getting struck by lightening LOL ;-)

If they're together a year or two from now, or even 6 months from now, then they'll have hit some pretty astronomical good odds.

Yea sure it's possible. But it's more likely that the fact that he jumped out of one relationship and right into another instantly is going to catch up to him. And who knows what issues she'll bring into the mix that will crop up, cause we all have them.

They've got a long road ahead of them to reach that sunset dear. Don't sweat this - he'll probably get struck by lightening on his way there LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, need ur wise insights on this matter. 7 months ago I broke up with a DM after he went MIA for a few days. He claimed that we were in an exclusive r/s but at the same time he said his heart was not into the rs. I felt disrespected and I broke up w him. Throughout these 8 months he did contact me on and off of which i reply only when i feel like it, bcos he did not offer an apology or a talk watsoever for his jerk behavior.

Anyway 8 mths on I am dating someone new now (a gentleman who treats me w consistency and respect). DM msg me out of the blue and told me he was having a sports shoe sale and asked whether was I interested. I ordered a pair from him and he asked me to collect it from his shop which was in quite a deserted place. I got my bf to go w me and DM looked surprised and sulky that i brought along another guy. He was also rude and not very friendly. Anyways aft this episode DM has ceased contacting me (just as well). However, Im feeling kinda guilty now but i honestly only brought my bf along bcos that place was deserted and i am not sure of my directions there.

So wise mirror can I have ur insights on the above? Thks v v much

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 26, 11:11 PM,
"I'm feeling kinda guilty now but i honestly only brought my bf along bcos that place was deserted and i am not sure of my directions there."

No need to feel guilty. I believe your intentions were pure here. You meant no ill will and weren't attempting to make him guilty (because you've clearly moved on and do not want him back). So I wouldn't sweat this one. Additionally, 8 months have passed. If you had done this within a few weeks of the breakup, then it might appear differently. But it's almost been an entire year that's passed.

Actually, I think the one who may have been up to something deliberate in this particular situation is your DM. I imagine he could've easily shipped a pair of shoes, but instead chose to have you show up face-to-face to get them. I imagine he may have had ideas there. But that doesn't mean he's changed. All that means is that he may have had some ideas (to stir up some drama again).

You've moved on and now you have a good man by your side, that appreciates you, cares for you, and treats you right. And that's as it should be. So appreciate that, and appreciate the man you're with -- and forget about the DM. Worrying about his feelings really isn't necessary, because he didn't seem to concern himself with yours in the past.

And sometimes in life - well - karma. . .is simply a bitch LOL ;-)

And it's a good thing that this caused him to cease intruding in your life and interjecting himself inconsistently whenever he saw fit. Because now you won't have that negative distraction and you can move into the future with without any lingering "baggage" so-to-speak ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank You Mirror for ur kind and wise insights. May all ladies here be strong enough to banish all DMs who does not know how to respect a relationship and women from their lives =D cheers!

From Anonymous May 26

Anonymous said...

MOA. Six months have gone by and I have not heard a word from my EX BF. I broke up with him and went into NC to see if he really did care about me. He always gave mixed signals. I figured if I just vanished from his life, he would come looking if he really loved me. He hasn't.

I have not reached out, neither has he. Can I assume with 100% certainty that since has made no attempt to text or phone during this period, he never cared about me?

Hanna

Unknown said...

Hi Mirror!
A week ago after a little over 2 months of NC, Sweet and I began communicating again. He was so excited to be talking to me again he was very eager to see me again as well.
If you remember, he was the one who didn’t text me back when I asked him a question and he was the one who began to act distant; but he mentioned a couple of times “you just stopped messing with me” once we began to communicate with each other again. When we hung out it didn’t seem like our time apart upset him, I was a mess these past two months. He carried on like we never stopped talking. That bothered me for some reason, rightfully so?
These two months made me realize how much I care about him and how much I took him for granted. It’s like all I want is to be close to him again. I miss how much he valued my opinion and how much he wanted to see me and how much I meant to him. I miss how much he wanted me to be his. I am so full of regret because I feel as if I lost my opportunity and it feels like he is “the one who got away”.
For a week he maintained communication with me but then it started to die off a few days ago. Of course this made me sad because I was so anxious and overanalyzing every action of his. I just expected him to try harder, I wanted him to pour his emotions out and tell me that he missed me and wanted to be with me. I fear I may be living in the past, and the man I loved is gone.
I sent him a message saying how it was hard going those 2 months without him and that I really missed him. I told him that I was sorry if I ever hurt him. And that I cared about him and respected him as a man. He responded the next morning with a “Thank you!” and then he proceeded to tell me about a community service project he was going to that day and that he was awake really early that morning. I was heart-broken. He continued to engage with me in conversation but I stopped responding because we are obviously not on the same page. Do you think I am wrong here? Couldn’t he have at least expressed that he missed me too? I mean he told me he missed me when we hung out but if I semi-poured my heart out to you and all you say is “Thank you!” seems like he meant “F*** you”.
Do you think that he is only communicating with me out of niceness at this point? Do you think I should cease communication with him and just forget about it/him? I know it’s only been a week since we’ve began talking again but he really hasn’t expressed any real emotion towards me yet.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"If I semi-poured my heart out to you and all you say is “Thank you!” seems like he meant “F*** you”."

Maybe, maybe not. Either way, the reality is that just because you're ready to address this and you've processed your feelings about it and you're ready to talk about it -- doesn't mean that he's done the same yet, ya' know? He may just not be ready to "go there" with you yet.

"Do you think that he is only communicating with me out of niceness at this point?"

Only time will tell. If he's only responding to you and not initiating contact, then that could be the case. However, if you cease contacting him and then he begins to initiate contact with you - it's probably not just him being nice at that point.

"Do you think I should cease communication with him and just forget about it/him?"

I would cease initiating it, but I would still respond to it to see where he's going to lead things.

"I know it’s only been a week since we’ve began talking again but he really hasn’t expressed any real emotion towards me yet."

He may still be confused about how he feels. He may not have processed any of his feelings about this yet. And he may not be ready to talk about this yet. Relationships take time to grow. And two people don't always move at the same pace.

I think what might have happened here is that you placed expectations onto him, and had high expectations from him, and he did not fulfill those expectations so now you're disappointed. But the thing is - you set yourself up for that disappointment by placing the expectations, ya' know?

It's always best not to do that. It's always best to just go into things with an open mind, no expectations, and a carefree attitude about where things may or may not go. That way, you're not setting yourself up for disappointment, and when something good does happen - it's a nice unexpected pleasant surprise ;-)

Give this time. It's only been a week since communication began again. Give him some time to make sense of this. And in the meantime, keep living your life as if he were not in it, do not set expectations, remain open and carefree and continually moving forward. . .and see what happens.

Unknown said...

Hi Mirror,
I did as you suggested and did not initiate any contact with Sweet and let go of any expectations about the situation. He began to contact me every day and initiating conversation, I will admit that communicating with him more made some of my expectations return. He has also been asking to see me. However, he does not make any concrete plans. It seems like we can never get on the same page as far as availability. I know he is very busy this time of year, however I can’t help but feel disappointed. Even though he acts like he wants to see e often, I believe that if a man truly wants to see you…he will make the time.
I have already accepted that he doesn’t feel the same about me as he used to. Although that hurts, I can no longer deny the truth that his actions are showing me. I still care about him, and I wouldn’t be totally against trying with him in the future after he has matured a little bit; but holding on to hope seems dangerous. Should I maintain communication with him and just keep a friendship that could develop into more when we are both ready? Or should I just implement NC again to try to detach myself from the situation once more? Or should I straight up tell him that if he wanted to see me he would have and that he’s not showing enough effort to keep me around?
I am moving a little whiles away soon and he was eager to see me before I left, but that still hasn’t happened and it doesn’t seem like it is a priority to him. I feel like he’s making excuses and stringing me along. I don’t want to never speak to him again, but he doesn’t really seem like the same guy I knew, the one that was in love with me and would do anything to see me. How do I detach myself from this situation and not allow my heart to be too involved while still keeping him as a part of my life, but a much smaller part?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"Should I maintain communication with him and just keep a friendship that could develop into more when we are both ready? Or should I just implement NC again to try to detach myself from the situation once more?"

That's a personal decision, the choice is yours. Do what's best for YOU (and don't worry about him).

"Or should I straight up tell him that if he wanted to see me he would have and that he’s not showing enough effort to keep me around?"

I wouldn't bother doing that. It's a confrontational approach that will only lead to defensiveness on his part.

"How do I detach myself from this situation and not allow my heart to be too involved while still keeping him as a part of my life, but a much smaller part?"

You use NC and you refrain from initiating conversations, and only respond to his contacts. That way, you're forcing yourself to only focus on him when he's made the effort to contact you. And when he hasn't, you're in continual forward motion with your life.

Anonymous said...

A man I have been dating for about 2½ months (have been talking for at least 3) broke up with me the other day. He always treated me really well, setting up and paying for dates, staying in contact, bringing me flowers. I had been hesitant to start anything because he has only been divorced for about a year, but he treated me so well I didn’t want to throw away a good guy just for that reason, I decided to give him a chance. Things were really good for about 2 months, however in the last few weeks I noticed that he was starting to withdraw a bit. I let him take his space and didn’t pressure him. He was still contacting me regularly, but starting to pull back on making plans as often. I didn’t make a big deal about it, I was busy and living my own life and we were just casually dating. So two weeks ago, we went out on Tuesday night and had made plans for Friday night as well. All his planning and ideas, not mine. I could feel he was still pulling back even further between those dates and come Friday morning he cancelled, citing a health issue in the family. I didn’t really believe his excuse but I didn’t make a big deal of it, told him I hoped everyone was ok, we could do it another time, etc. I was out of town for the weekend and he messaged me the next day saying he hoped my weekend had been going well. I was busy and didn’t have my phone so I didn’t respond for about 6 hours or so, which he replied to immediately after. We talked sporadically over the next few days. Then I didn’t hear from him for about 5 days, at which point he sent me a text message saying that he had a wonderful time getting to know me and is sorry to be doing this over text but that he didn’t see any long term potential with me and that we shouldn’t bother wasting either of our time but that he wished me all the best and he has since deleted me as a friend on Facebook, which he initiated as I don’t usually add people I am dating for this exact reason. I didn’t really know what to say so I just told him thank you for letting me know and take care. I’m not sure if that was the right thing to do or not, whether I should have said something more, but I don’t think it would have made any kind of a difference in any way. If he’s going to go, I’m not going to try to convince him to stay. I kind of felt that it had been coming but I’m heartbroken all the same. Man, it hurts when the good ones leave, and just as I was starting to get a little excited about this one. It’s hard not to look back and see what I might have done to bring this on, but I’m going to try not to dwell on it. In the back of my head I still have that little hope that maybe he will realize he made a mistake, but I know that’s unrealistic and I’m not going to wait for that to happen. I don’t anticipate hearing from him again as I think he’s made himself pretty clear about how he feels and I think it was too short of a time period for him to make any real emotional connection with me, but I will start no contact to help me detach and move on. At least he had enough respect for me to actually end it instead of disappearing as most of them have done.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 26, 4:38 PM,
"Man, it hurts when the good ones leave, and just as I was starting to get a little excited about this one."

Never say never. Keep moving forward but understand that a LOT of men circle back around. Generally, only a small percentage disappear for good. And you'd be surprised at the long lengths of time this can happen over. Sometimes they're back in a month or two or three. Sometimes it's 6 months, 8 months or a year. And sometimes it's three or four years later.

Don't hold onto hope and wait around. But also don't be surprised if this guy resurfaces in a couple months acting like nothing has happened LOL.

He likely disconnected from you on Facebook because he doesn't want you to see pictures of who he's dating or is now "in a relationship" with. Because even if it doesn't work out, there's no real reason to do that (unless stalking comes into play). I can see not being friends in the real world and talking all the time, but remaining Facebook friends in the virtual one isn't as concrete as that.

And my point is. . .if that's the case, and this relationship goes South (and mind you, most do unfortunately) - you may hear from this man again ;-)

And if that's the case and he is with someone else, don't blame yourself for that. And don't think that he picked her over you. Because for all you know, he had been dating her before you or met her before you, etc. Sometimes timing is everything. You stated that you hadn't been dating long enough for him to form an emotional connection. And it could simply be that he's know this woman longer and therefore, feels a tad closer to her. It could be that she lives closer. It could be that they've dated off and on for years now and do this regularly.

Who knows.

My point is that it's more likely that some external circumstance prompted him to make this decision. . .versus any internal feelings/reasons about you.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mirror for your kind words. I suspected another woman may be in the picture when he deleted me from Facebook as there was no real reason to do so as I never paid much attention to his page. I never liked anything or left any messages. I only even noticed that he had removed me after he was no longer listed as a friend on a picture of mine that he had liked.

I will just keep moving on and if something were meant to be it will be. I have no intention of contacting him and will move on and date other men, but how do you handle it when someone who never really treated you badly circles back around? Do you still make them wait a month with various attempts before you respond, ignore them until they come back with an apology and a need to talk, reply with a friendly message several days later?. If he had disappeared on me or been treated me badly I wouldn’t even waste my time with any sort of a response, but I would be a little unsure of how to handle this situation if he ever does circle back around. If he ever does, I may not even care anymore at that point but just curious about how to handle a guy who wasn't a jerk.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

Why is it that these DMs can be so thick skin to circle back aft such a long length of time acting like ntg has happened with no feelings of remorse watsoever? My ex DM has circled back after 2.5 mths of no contact after he found out I have a new bf. Best of all, he acted very concern of my chronic gastric condition and showed me articles in which 'researched' on how to improve gastric discomfort. I juz cant seem to fathom these enigmatic DMs. Whats ur view mirror?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 2, 9:49 PM,
"Why is it that these DMs can be so thick skin to circle back aft such a long length of time acting like nothing has happened with no feelings of remorse whatsoever?"

Because they lack self-awareness dear.

They do not understand, or bother to think about, how their behavior has affected you or hurt you. They do not understand the feelings that their treatment creates in you or the damage it has done -- because they're not aware of how their own behavior is harming you.

They think everything is fine and it's no big deal, because they don't bother to think of it from YOUR perspective. . .because they're not on the receiving end of their own treatment and do not understand the negative feelings it creates.

Anonymous said...

Hi there, I loveee this blog. I swear for the past 2 days I have been reading every single comment and your response and I just felt compelled to get your advice about my situation.


So I had been in a exclusive relationship with this man for 7 months and things were great for about the first 5/6 months. He seemed to like to flirt alot on FB which bothered me cause I have some insecurities from past cheating. I brought this to his attention and he worked on it. After that he really just kinda fell off a bit with the attention, affection and time. He is a loaner and likes being at home by himself, he is also on blood pressure meds so it affects his sex drive and his energy. Anywho, I tried to be understanding but my needs not being met just took the best of me and I found myself almost weekly bugging/nagging him about us and him not doing what I needed him to do to fulfill my needs. He really and truly tried to be there and tried to do what he could to make me happy but I wasnt. So the last drawl was he posted something on FB about his child (she had passed at the age 2) and he also told the mother that he loved her too and it sent me through the roof. I texted him and screen shotted what he wrote and sent to him asking for an explanation. We were due to go on a mini vacation the next day, He texts back and says "You know I am not going on vacation now, I need a break from everything and everybody, sorry for the inconvience but I need this". I only replied okay. I was okay until I saw he did in fact go on vacation without me and then the hurt, insecurities and crazy kicked in. I texted him a book apologizing and that I was sorry for being inconsiderate, he texted back (a day later) and said thank you, I was "very" upset but we will talk when I get back home. From that point on I texted him a couple more times about me being sick and he would take a day or so to respond asking how I was feeling and saying he was happy I was okay. He got back home and I was looking for a call in which I never got. He texted and said he got back, and I asked if I could see him so we could talk, he never responsed. I texted a couple days later and asked if he could help me to get my tv from the store and he hit me back and said he could do it for me tomorrow. I told him I found someone else to help and he never said anything else. The next day he texted and said I am happy you were able to get your tv, I would have taken you, how are you doing? I hit him back and was like I am good, then I asked how he was, his health, job and stuff, he never responded and that was almost a week ago.

So after reading your blog I have initated the no contact rule, however I have a question, we are still FB friends and he posts pics and stuff that he knows will get lots of likes and stuff, is he trying to make me jealous? And if he can still see me posting and the things I am doing on FB and IG will it not give him a chance to miss me since he can still follow on me on FB or will it make him miss me cause he sees me living my life without him? Do you think that he will contact me, or did I push him too far. I mean he was the iniator to everything in our relationship and I have met everyone in his family and him mine.

I would truly appreciate your advice, because although I am prepared mentally to move on if things dont work, I do think of him daily and miss him a lot.

Signed Paris

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Paris,
"I found myself almost weekly bugging/nagging him about us and him not doing what I needed him to do to fulfill my needs"

This probably won't be the solution you're seeking, however, when this happens (and it happens all the time). . .trying to pound a square peg (him) into a round hole (you) will yield little results.

Why?

Because we cannot control others - we can only control our reaction to them.

When you boil this down, what that means is that you either have to accept people for who they are and what they have to offer - OR - you need to decide if they're willing or even capable of fulfilling your needs, and if not, make the deliberate decision to let them go so that you can move on to find your happiness.

That's really the ugly truth right there. Changing them and/or controlling them or forcing them to fulfill your needs really isn't an option :-(

You have to either accept them for who they are, or decide that they're not able to make you happy and fulfill your needs and end the relationship as a result.

"he posted something on FB about his child (she had passed at the age 2) and he also told the mother that he loved her too and it sent me through the roof"

Try to understand what that really meant though. These two lost a child together. They had a shared experience - one that happened to be tragic unfortunately. And because of that shared tragedy, they will likely always love one another.

But that DOES NOT mean that they are IN LOVE WITH ONE ANOTHER.

There's a big difference between loving someone, and being IN LOVE with someone. I love my parents, sibling, aunts/uncles, grandparents, close friends, etc.

But I am not IN LOVE with them.

And the love I suspect he has for her is of the "familial" level. Meaning, he likely loves her in similar fashion to a sister at this point, or a close friend. But that does not mean that he's IN LOVE with her, ya' know?

One is romantic love (being IN love), and one is affectionate love (familial love that does not include any romantic feelings).

Cont. .



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"he posts pics and stuff that he knows will get lots of likes and stuff, is he trying to make me jealous?"

That likely has little to do with you, and lots to do with him. Meaning, chances are he's active like that on Facebook seeking validation. And when people seek, or need, constant validation from others, it signals that they're insecure and need the attention to feel important, better about themselves, popular, etc. It's a bit of an ego boost that validates that they matter to others.

Social media validation in reality has NO VALUE WHATSOEVER. People lie, give false impressions, and pretend to lead fantastic lives their every single day. It's pretty much all pretend so in the end, it doesn't matter (cause it's not real, it's only virtual). However, a lot of people use it for purposes of self-esteem. For instance, folks with narcissistic personality disorder (having an excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one's physical appearance) post a ton of selfies there - to receive validation from others that yes, they ARE beautiful. And the reason they NEED that type of constant validation is because secretly, they're very insecure and don't feel beautiful at all. . .so they need others to help them believe this every day.

So if I had to use my gut here, my guess is that his FB activity has little to do with wanting to make you jealous and more to do with secret feelings in inadequacy, insecurity, failure, etc. So he's using FB and the community their to give him an ego boost to help validate for him that yes, he is good enough, people do like him, and view him as popular (the opposite of how he may truly feel about himself).

If you're having trouble seeing it daily, and it's causing you anxiety, and self-doubt or paranoia and you think it's directed at you. . .then unfriend him and shut that down immediately. It will not benefit you at all to keep placing yourself in front of things that cause negative feelings day in and day out.

"Do you think that he will contact me, or did I push him too far."

That I do not know. But that's the beauty of NC -- it will help you find that out, while permitting you to emotionally detach in the meantime to gain clarity ;-)

"although I am prepared mentally to move on if things don't work, I do think of him daily and miss him a lot"

Cont. .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

You have to accept that this is a process that will take place. It's a grieving process and there's no magic pill available to speed you through it unfortunately.

In the past, one way I've successfully managed that process is this:

1) When you're sad or want to cry - do it - for TEN MINUTES ONLY.
2) After ten minutes are up, you get up and get moving. And I mean literally get up and get physical right away. Clean your house, crank happy music and do chores, go for a walk, meet a girlfriend for lunch, exercise, make your bed. I don't care what it is - get up and GET MOVING.

What that does is, the physical activity disrupts the thought process taking place in the brain. It forces you to:

1) Focus on the physical task at hand.
2) Release pent up anxiety in a healthy manner.

Being active permits you to release the pent up emotions and heightened anxiety that gathered during the ten minute window you were grieving or sad. So you let that build, you experience those negative feelings for ten minutes, and then you release them.

And you do this over and over again each time you're sad. You don't fight the feelings, you let yourself experience them. But you set limits with how far you're going to let yourself experience them and for how long (ten minutes). And then once you've permitted yourself that grieving/sadness session and experienced those emotions. . .you get moving immediately afterwards and you release them via physical activity of some sort.

Letting them go physically is important. And stopping yourself from experiencing negative feelings at ten minutes is important.

Why?

Because if you let LONG periods of sadness take place, what you don't know is that while you're doing that and permitting yourself to go down, down, down -- deeper and deeper into those feelings and residing in them. . .your brain is actually getting enough time in the experience to REWIRE ITSELF to connect those new thought patterns.

In otherwords, the longer you live in sadness. . .the more your brain begins to reconstruct new neural pathways and connections that lead to them more often.

Picture it like this. Your on the side of a river. You need to cross the river, but you can't. You're now sad that you cannot get to the other side of the river. So you build a bridge, and now you can get to the other side of the river any ole' time you feel like it.

How that works with the brain is this. You're standing on the brink of sadness. You're looking back at the past (the other side of the river). You want things to go back to the way they used to be (you want to get across the river). So what happens? Your brain builds a bridge to the other side of the river (the past).

And now you can zip right back to the past whenever you want to. And before you know it, you'll be living there in the past. But you notice that on the other side of the river, the one you just left, is the future -- and here you are, mired in the past all day (the side of the river you wanted desperately to be on).

Do NOT give your brain enough time to build new pathways to negative thought processes by remaining steeped in periods of sadness for long lengths of time. If you do that, you just dig yourself a deeper hole every time you permit that to take place. You just give your brain more time to build new connections to negative thought patterns that will eventually lead to paranoid thinking 24/7 if left unchecked.

Which is why it is SO IMPORTANT to consciously control your thoughts on a daily basis ;-)

Anonymous said...

Wow that you so very much, I honestly didnt expect you to write me back so fast. You gave me soo much sound advice and honestly I had come to grips with all that you were saying about him and his childs mother and about him and his ways. Today is my birthday and he was the first to text me at 12:15 in the morning and he said this " Happy Birthday, I know things havent been good with us lately, but I wouldnt and couldnt forget your special day. I hope you enjoy your day, I will call you later and see what your schedule looks like so I can get you your birthday gifts. GN (blowing kiss emoji). It truly made my night Mirror, I wont lie because I had already braced myself that I may not hear from him on my special day and he was the very first one. I prayed on whether I should response and I took everything I read on your blog to heart, I thought about the NC rule and I truly wasn't going to but I felt that because it was my birthday and he had did something nice for me (I remember reading on one of your comments that you said if the guy was trying to do something nice for you). So anyway I didnt respond last night, nor first thing in the morning (as I normally would) I waited and then I just responded. Thank you, that means a lot. Was I wrong? If he calls should I answer, should i meet up with him to get the presents? We have not yet talked at all about what went down (the blow up about his child) in a week so I figured if he is ready to see me then we should at least talk if he wants that. Your thoughts?

Paris

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Paris,
"If he calls should I answer, should i meet up with him to get the presents? If he is ready to see me then we should at least talk if he wants that."

If he's ready to talk, and you think you can do that in a clear, non-emotional manner, then when he asks, I'd proceed with that. However, I would NOT proceed with that at home or alone anywhere. I'd do that in a public place, over drinks or dinner or something, so that both parties keep their emotions in check to ensure successful communication ;-)

Unknown said...

Hi Mirror!

I want to thank you for helping me along this journey of sorts, lol. As always, I have taken your advice, you have never steered me wrong. I am focusing on myself and moving forward. I just moved, I am getting a new job and making major purchases and I am excited about my future.
The last time I spoke to Sweet was around the last time I wrote to you 2 weeks ago. He kept saying that he wanted to see me before I left and acted sad that our schedules weren’t “allowing” it. I got really angry bc I wanted to see him after I went to the bar that night but he said he would be sleep, I thought he was lying but it turns out he did have to work early the next morning. Before I knew that I asked him if we should just call it a day on it and he “regretfully” agreed. I sent him this message:
“It’s okay, I can take a hint. No hard feelings” I honestly didn’t expect to hear from him again anytime soon.

A couple of hours after he got off of work he contacted me saying that he cooked a dinner for me. I was pleasantly surprised. We had a fun night together. He never directly expressed his sadness that I was leaving but I could tell by some of his remarks and actions (or I could be delusional). He contacted me again the next day trying to invite me over again but he was not being direct so I brushed it off as him not really wanting to see me. That was the last communication we’ve had.

For over 3 moths I have prayed, meditated, conditioned myself to think of him less, worked out to relieve anxiety, I have cried and yelled at myself in the mirror “HE DOES NOT WANT YOU! LET IT GO!” But I cannot yet get my heart to believe it. I may be in denial but I am giving myself time. Either I will be with him in the future or I won’t care to be with him at all.
He has asked if I will come to his games and watch him play this upcoming football season and I said that I probably would…would this be a bad idea? I want to give him ample space to live his life so the decision to come back together will be his as well and he will pursue me. I do not want to be strung along or be fooled by whatever charm Taurus’ are notorious for.
Some of my friends say that that he is guarding his heart from me. Others say that I waited too long and once a man (especially a Taurus) is done with someone, they are done for good. I really hope not. He KNOWS that I care for him, and as you said; after a year of him trying to be with me he probably lost hope and became fed up.

Unknown said...

I never before believed in soulmates, but I know that he is one of mine. I’ve asked my angels and the universe for signs…specific ones, and eerily so, I have received them. I won’t be moving back close to him for another year. However, I know this time apart will be beneficial, it’s really what I needed and exactly what I asked for. Time to make myself better mentally and physically and time for both of us to mature. I sincerely hope that when I move back we can start fresh and if that is not meant to be then I pray that I will have absolutely no desire to do so. But this process is SO HARD. Negative thoughts fill my mind sometimes, bouts of sadness and jealousy. When I got out of my 3 year relationship with my ex I was very sad but ready to move on. Thinking about moving on with him gives me extreme anxiety for some reason and I am completely content with not seeing anyone and just being to myself right now. When/if it is time for me to move on it will feel natural, right?
Tell me mirror, have I angered the Bull? Has too much damage been done? Is it ever possible for him to want to pursue me as a girlfriend again?
Yes he was being kind to me, initiated contact, was affectionate but that could just be in his nature. He is no longer pursuing me with the vigor he once did and that is evident. I have no desire to reach out to him right now because I feel as if it’s pointless.
I am just stuck in between “What will be will be” and “If you want it, make it happen”. I just don’t want my “lack of effort” to imply that I don’t care. He loves routine and reliability and stability. I want to be that for him but I don’t know if it is a good idea to put in that effort right now. Sometimes I feel like I am too quick to “fall back” and see what happens and act like I don’t care when on the inside I care a lot.

I really want to know if I sound crazy or if I am being stupid? I have found peace with my plan and my thoughts but there is always that smidgen of fear and doubt.

Anonymous said...

Thank you! So you don't think I messed up by responding to his birthday text since I was trying to do the NC? I realllly thought about you lol before I pressed send but I was like since its my bday and he wanted to give me a gift I felt it would be wrong if I didnt respond. I do agree with what you said tho about emotions... I can say I am 70% okay with my emotions because I have gone through so much uncertainity about this that I kinda came up with my own closure in a sense. However if he is ready to talk then so be it, I will mirror him and I will allow him to lead, watching my emotions and talking level headed.

PS I have neverrrr been to a therapist but you truly feel like that to me, a person that has no connection to neither one of us so can give sound advice from the outside looking in...thank you!

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for responding. He actually didnt call me yesterday for my birthday which hurt me and honestly pissed me off. He sent me a text saying Hello I hope you had a great day, then went in to talk about him having a sinus infection. I didnt even respond and have no desire to do so. I feel like he is just stringing me along or trying to make me pay now by sending this lil bait "dangle carrot" text messages. I respond the he responds hourssssss later or sometimes doesnt.

Paris

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Jasmine,
"I just moved, I am getting a new job and making major purchases and I am excited about my future."

That is AWESOME to hear. There is NO BETTER investment that will provide more satisfaction than an investment in yourself ;-)

Interestingly enough, this is not the only moving story I've heard this week. I just received word that a long time reader moved states away to start fresh. It's amazing the impact these men and their behavior can have.

But you know what?

I believe that sometimes, people come into our lives to deliver a "lesson" as a "teacher" of sorts. They're not "the one" -- but they ARE the one who can affect you in ways that prepare you to meet the one, or create a situation that sends you on the path you need to be on to meet the one.

Think about it. Had none of this ever happened, would you have still moved? Maybe, maybe not. But isn't it interesting to think that they were the catalyst for that move? A move that will likely place you exactly where you were meant to be, to create the life that was intended for you?

Oddly enough, I've ended up being very grateful for a lot of assholes in my life -- because had it not been for them and my experience with them. . .I probably would not be where I'm at right now in life either LOL ;-)

I like to associate it with a game of pool. All the balls (people) are on the table. It's anyone's game. You take your shot, and you catapult other balls into position for their shot. Each shot, every move, is a "jolting" one with a lot of impact on all the other balls (people). But every jolting shot that contains a lot of unexpected impact is important to reaching the end goal and placing the other balls into position to achieve that.

All the balls (people) are receiving a heavy blow -- but amazingly, it's those very blows that line them up and place them exactly where they need to be to win the game ;-)

"He has asked if I will come to his games and watch him play this upcoming football season and I said that I probably would…would this be a bad idea?"

Give yourself and your new life some time to unfold first and then see how you feel after that happens before making that decision. Don't worry about it now. Don't pressure yourself to decide now.

Enjoy your new life first, worry about him last ;-)

"Others say that I waited too long and once a man (especially a Taurus) is done with someone, they are done for good."

I disagree with that. I think that applies more to women than men. Once a woman is done -- she's DONE. But men? They have a tendency to be done for a few months, and then circle around again to give it another go LOL ;-) More of them tend to come back than disappear forever.

"He KNOWS that I care for him, and as you said; after a year of him trying to be with me he probably lost hope and became fed up."

Of course he knows. If you didn't care, you wouldn't bother speaking to him, let alone seeing him again. Your ACTIONS show you care.

It's never over till it's really over. And this isn't really over. It's still taking place. Maybe not at the speed or intensity it once did. . .but it ain't over till it's really over. There are still pages being added to his chapter in your life. The story is unfolding a bit slower, but it's a story that is still being written ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Jasmine, I really admire your story and your last post. You are such a beautiful woman, I had to say that from your picture. I could honestly say "wow I couldnt see how a man would mess up with that beauty" but then I look in the mirror and say "LOL I sure can". Its such a great thing having someone like MOA to talk to and give great advice. I honestly dont feel alone in my feelings, fears and relationship challenges any longer. I cant or should I say dont talk to my girlfriends because I feel they will only tell me what "they" would do and not the right thing to do, I also feel that different people have alternative motives to the advice they give, so I keep it to myself.

Well good luck in your new journey, please continue to keep us posted because I would love to see how things play out in your new page, and even with Sweets :)

Paris

Anonymous said...

I will make this note, that every single man I have ever been in a relationship with and some that I just "dated" have ALWAYS came back. Some yearsssss, even after marriage (some tried while still being married) but they all came back to me. So I know that the NC works for a fact. However, as MOA said by that time you have mostly moved on and no longer want or desire their asses lol ;)

Paris

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Paris,
"every single man I have ever been in a relationship with and some that I just "dated" have ALWAYS came back."

Funny how women tend to worry SO much about losing a man. . .yet fail to realize that, generally speaking, the majority of men really don't want to be "lost" and just keep coming back LOL ;-)

BUT - many men instinctively know women suffer anxiety over the thought of loss, and the savvy ones take advantage of that fear. They start to push boundaries knowing that they can get away with murder because the women's attachment is being driven by fear and self-doubt instead of confidence and independence.

That's why it's important to KNOW YOUR VALUE as a woman, and NEVER settle for less than you deserve. Once you settle, they've "got your number" (know that you'll stay out of fear). So from day one, it's crucial to stand strong as a woman so that you send the clear message that you're not fearful and you don't suffer self-doubt. Instead, you are confident and independent. . .and you are not afraid to walk away from a man or be alone without one period. That message has to be made clear when dating from day one.

Because the minute, and I mean the minute, you suffer a lapse and reduce your value. . .they've got your number and the power now lies with them (to use YOUR fear to THEIR advantage).

A few years back, I did an informal poll here on this site and asked women to jot down all the men they've dated and been in relationships with in one column, and then in a second column, jot down all the one's they heard from again (those that reappeared).

If I remember correctly, the average number of men who returned was about 92 - 94%, with very few disappearing forever LOL ;-)

This may sound inappropriate, but the cold truth is that WE have something THEY want (the va-gi-gi) -- the power is clearly ours. And that high percentage of returns validates where the power truly lies.

We just need to learn to confidently wield that power wisely, and fairly ;-)

Anonymous said...

Yes sooo very true... I am learning so very much MOA, I cried last night because this was my first birthday alone and the man I love so deeply didnt even have enough respect to call like he said he would. He was the one that texted me telling me he would call me on my bday for my gifts and never called but sent a lousy text. It hurt my feelings but it made me mad to where I was like the hell with this dude. What are your thoughts on that? Him telling me he would but sending a text instead?

permalosa said...

Yes, but it makes me think about what you wrote above on January 28 (2016)... There you said that they may return but it is rarely any good. You said you had seen hundreds of cases but rarely a happy ending. It's like once it is broken it can never be fully repaired. I would like to believe that this is not the case... but it seems like you are speaking from lots of experience in life and from this blog. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, Permalosa

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Permalosa,
"you said that they may return but it is rarely any good. You said you had seen hundreds of cases but rarely a happy ending."

Yes - they come back. . .but that doesn't mean it's a happy ending.

Truth be told, I've NEVER heard one report back of a happy ending with a man that resurfaced after disappearing. NEVER - not ONE.

The report I usually get is that yep, he came back. . .just as big a fool as ever. And the woman gained clarity from the time apart and no contact and this time when she did see him again. . .she was able to clearly see him for the fool he proved himself to be.

And wanted nothing more to do with him.

In all the years I've been doing this, not one positive report of a man that disappeared, returned and ended up marrying the woman or even ended up in a serious relationship with her. That's based on 5,000 comments/stories shared on one article, some 2300 shared here on this one, and some 800 shared on another. . .over the course of about nine years doing this.

Which is why I ultimately wrote this article:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/11/dating-a-disappearing-man.html

There's a video at the very end of it that sums it up beautifully:

"When people can walk away from you, let them walk. I don’t care how wonderful they are, I don’t care how attracted you are to them, I don’t care what they did for you 20 years ago, I don’t care what the situation is. When people can walk away from you, let them walk – because your destiny is not tied to the person who left.”

AuthenticScorpio said...

Congrats, Jasmine! I was in the same position you were last year - moved from my home state to a new state and was terrified about leaving family, friends and guys I've had romantic interests in. Almost a year later I've grown so much, thrown myself into my new job, networked and made new friendships. Went hiking for the first time ever lol. And just this past week for the first time EVER in my career I sat down with my boss, showed her all the hard work I've been doing and asked for a raise - and I got one! A few years ago I would have NEVER done something like that.

Definitely think these people and catalysts can spur a lot of growth - it helps wake you up. And for the guy friend I was afraid of "losing" - even though we don't live in the same city anymore, he's still "around", I just pay less attention to him now and only if he initiates it and I feel like talking at that moment in time. I'm more open to new romantic prospects and am no longer set on any one particular person, which I think is good and more healthy. And now I'm planning out my life based on what I want to do, rather than waiting in the wings for 'what ifs' and 'maybes.'

I've gone to Hawaii this year by myself on my first solo trip ever and have so many other trips planned as well. I'm excited about life and planning out goals and things I want to work on. Makes me wonder if this is how men feel - waking up every day deciding what they want to do/pursue and focusing mostly on themselves all day every day. I must admit, it feels kind of nice lol. And DEFINITELY have Mirror to thank for that guidance and assurance.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@AuthenticScorpio,
"I sat down with my boss, showed her all the hard work I've been doing and asked for a raise - and I got one! A few years ago I would have NEVER done something like that."

You know why you never did that before?

Because you didn't KNOW YOUR VALUE back then. But you do now, and so do others. Because YOUR ACTIONS showed them your value -- and the investment you've made IN YOURSELF has reaped the rewards of OTHERS INVESTING INTO YOU ;-)

"now I'm planning out my life based on what I want to do, rather than waiting in the wings for 'what ifs' and 'maybes.'"

You've taken control and moved yourself from a powerless position into a powerful one by doing so.

"Makes me wonder if this is how men feel - waking up every day deciding what they want to do/pursue and focusing mostly on themselves all day every day. I must admit, it feels kind of nice lol."

Healthy selfishness that doesn't hurt others but benefits you is a wonderful thing, no LOL ;-)

Unknown said...

@MOA
Thank you for your words! They are exactly what I wanted, but most importantly, NEEDED to hear. I will read them every time I need motivation or reassurance. What I’ve learned from you is that the best thing to do is to focus on yourself until the focus is on yourself. It’s always best to remain confident in yourself and that your desires will come into fruition.
@Paris
Thank you so much! The best thing that I have learned is to pray that God (or the universe) guides your heart to desire what is good and what is right for you. Also to give you peace when you make the right decision. With my ex when I finally made the decision to stop talking to him for good I was sad and cried but I felt peace and a weight lifted off of my shoulders. And it turns out that was the perfect time for me to let go of him. Trust that the universe is a kind and friendly place that wants to benefit you. Sending positive vibes and prayers your way!

@AuthenticScorpio
Thanks! I’m so glad to see that your life is unfolding so wonderfully. And YES! I honestly do think that’s how men feel. They have this amazing ability to put themselves first always and go after what THEY want no matter what. Surprisingly, I think that we can learn something from them, lol. I always feel the need to be in control so when I fall in love I feel as though my power is gone and it becomes a power struggle filled with stress and anxiety that I created for MYSELF. I am working on that, I am focusing my need for power and control on my health and career and not my relationship. Power struggles and love cannot exist harmoniously. When I feel more confident in myself I can be a better partner and a better person all around. I am learning to be thankful for this time to focus on myself, because I prayed to God for this I just didn’t think it would be this hard emotionally. Congrat$$$ on your rai$e by the way, LOL.

Anonymous said...

Ill let the kids keep playing the games.
I think wehn you meet the right one, there is no need for that shit.
Games just break trust, they dont strenghten things long term.
If you let your partnewr play mind games on you, your a sucker ans are the reason we have this while situation. There was none of this crap 50 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Question, will this work when a man doesn't have strong feelings for you? can the law of scarcity apply here too? where missing the person will actually open the heart and build feelings??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 25, 7:59 AM,
It can pique their curiosity, however, it really does depend on the level of interest the man has for you.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Its Paris and I am back. Well I still havent talked to him since my birthday on the phone or face to face. We have been going back and forth with the text messages here and there but he will not call me or take my calls or see me. Its like if I go silent he reaches out and then when I respond he will say something and then for a few more text we will talk. Well now he has went completely silent and wont respond to my text or even the email that I sent him. There has still been no closure, nor an "official" breakup. I truly dont know what to do, I have been pretty good but then this morning I woke up missing him horribly and feel strong anxiety to talk to him. I sent him a long text message (I know I shouldnt have but I was overwelmed with emotions) and I am sure he probably wont reply. Should I initiate the NC now and just move on or what do you suggest I do?

Paris

Anonymous said...

This is a great and empowering blog and I feel much better about my decision for NC. I am 9 days into NC and he was taking me for granted and disrespecting me, and I realized that I was giving it away for free and being too available. I see that now and I am only 9 days into this NC, but I can see more clearly. It's unacceptable to me and I will not allow it, so I have set him free and I have released myself from the pain and misery of wanting love & romance and not getting it. I am going to get back to the woman I was before I met him and I was pretty awesome and full of life when he met me. Whether he calls again or not is not the question, because I know that I will be a better woman and the sun will shine again.

Anonymous said...

dear Mirror,
i am so humbled to have encountered your insight this issue:) its crazy how many of us women do not know how to deal with some things to get the results we deserve.
being from an african background where as women we are quite submissive it is a challenge to date men in todays modern world.
anyway here is my story and am desperate to get a plan of action.,...
i met this lovely taurean on line told me he is separated and was open to dating...we hit it off almost immediately so much in common,am a leo....chemistry is great etc...
but he is still very much involved in his family life as they have a kid together not to mention business interests.
so eight months i was my natural self...i would text and chekin,meet up for dates when it suited his work schedule...so eight months in a lot of sleeping together we kind of got so comfortable and never had the where is this going talk...absolute gentleman pays for everything..my birthday he was really generous and all...
anyway i was then invited to see him in a different country as he is working there and we had dinner
i suggested we go dancing and thats when the ball dropped...
went to the loo got back and he is chatting to this woman...ps prostitute...
didn't realise we was in a club full of working girls... anyway i played it cool..and got really drunk...my drink must have been spiked by one of these women.. because normally am pretty good at my drinking
so you can imagine i was total mess but..prior to that i had a really lovely time dancing and all..
again very genlemanly took care of me got to hotel and rested ....
last night dinner together he tells me his work is his priority....so i responded by saying respect that and i would sign up for online dating again in a very casual way we even laughed about it...
so i get back no contact from him for two weeks i sent a text saying how are you...short response... and two weeks in no contact from him...
anyway i decided to do the no contact thing as well now almost two weeks.....
should i continue with this and mirror his actions....or should i give it a month and true to pull him back in?
taurus and leo you know how we can both be stuborn....
confused lolwould appreciate your input....was i just a botty call when it suited him

Anonymous said...

My husband didn't come home all night so the next day I left. It's been two days and haven't heard from him unless it involves the kids. Still haven't responded to him. When do I go home?

Kat said...

So I've met a pretty confusing guy. He's Danish. Known for being a bit aloof. We text everyday, he sends me really elaborate long messages, but absolutely no flirting. But when I do see him in person he is all over me. I take my time to respond, he asks me how I am, he comments on things I say etc. However, this weekend I asked him if he wanted to meet up this coming weekend after responding to everything in his previous texts. He responded by asking what I did this weekend and commenting on a few other things. He then said that he'll get back to me later as he was about to have dinner with friends. I responded about 2 hours later saying what I did on the weekend and that I hope he had a good dinner. This morning he responded with an 11 line texts apologising for not getting back to me and that he fell asleep, he told me what he did yesterday, that he's feeling better (he was ill) and commented on how beautiful the day is and he's disappointed that he has to be indoors to work. Absolutely no response on my suggestion of making plans for the weekebd. You can probably understand why I am a bit confused. So I'm thinking I should employ a bit of no contact? Suggestions please!

Anonymous said...

@Kat: Nothing confusing here; he likes being a pen pal. Don't you find it somewhat rude that he doesn't respond to you asking him to do something? Nevermind, that you shouldn't even have to ask in the first place. Might be a good friend, but romantically, may be a dud.

Anonymous said...

My ex-boyfriend of 5 months recently broke up with me. We've been broken up for about 2 weeks now and I've employed strict NC, which means I did not speak to him after the break-up and I deleted him off everything (Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, etc.). Our relationship for the past month has been so easy and great. We've had misunderstandings and small fights, but we communicated well and talked them through. Background on him: I'm his first relationship ever (he's 30), he's introverted but has a good group of friends and has an active social life, and I'm the first person he's ever slept with. He's always been confused about what he finds attractive and what turns him on, what a relationship is all about, etc., because of his inexperience. But, this didn't seem to be a problem because of how well things were going.

Anyway, we've introduced each other to our families, my mom and step-dad love him and his parents kept on telling me how much they love me and happy their son met me! I met his entire family, friends, and extended family. We went away on vacation together for a week just 2 weeks before he broke it off with me. He brought up talks about the future, said he saw us having a future together and invited me to his work trip next March, his family for the holidays, etc. So, I knew that talks about the future didn't scare him. I was on a work trip for about 4 days and we were apart, so he did some thinking and we broke up shortly after I returned.

Anyway, on the morning of the day of the break-up, I talked about the future jokingly and we had a disagreement about making things work in the future to stay together. I didn't think it was a big deal because we usually smooth these kinds of things out by talking. After a couple of hours, he said he couldn't do this anymore (the relationship), that he couldn't be a boyfriend, that he saw me in the future but stopped seeing me there for the past week and saw himself alone. He said he doesn't know what he wants, that he has feelings for me, but since I was gone he felt unsure of his feelings (he said maybe he lost feelings for me or they're not as strong as mine). I was upset because we had so many upcoming plans in the next couple of weeks and I thought this relationship was going to stick cause everything seemed to be going well. He told me he felt bad because he wants to feel the same but he's not sure he does and doesn't know what he wants. He's confused about relationships and is trying to understand his own sexual desires, etc. I stayed at his place that day and we talked through the break-up and I just got so upset and fed up that he didn't want to try and work on it, because it's not like he doesn't have any feelings for me, they're just not as strong, and I know that's something that can be built because the rest is there! It's not like he's not turned on by me as well.

I don’t know if he’s going to come back. What are the chances? I mean, he’s never been in a relationship before, so unlike other guys, he’s never had to deal with this. I told him that I felt tricked, that I felt he was forcing himself to be with me, which he said wasn’t true (and my gut tells me that he wasn’t faking his feelings). He said they changed that week before the break-up and it’s been bothering him since. He said maybe he’s not ready for a relationship and can’t give me what I want, but I am confused because he wasn’t showing this during the relationship! He talked long-term, introduced me to his circle of family and friends, etc. He didn’t treat me badly until the break-up and I genuinely want to be with him. I’m just not sure if he’s coming back and I’ve employed strict NC. And I'm not sure he even knows how to come back even if he wanted to rekindle things.

Unknown said...

MOA

I don't know if you will read this because this thread is old. But - I meet a guy online at the end of June 2016 we talked everyday thru text for hours and we finally meet in person on Aug 2016. We hit it off and had a great time . I made the mistake of trying to act like I was okay with having casual sex with him in the future since he said he didn't want a relationship because he worked alot and we live like 2 hours away from each other so we wouldn't see each other everyday .But I started to have feelings for him and I started getting emotional and he broke it off with me. Does no contact count now because he ended it or do I start no contact once he reaches out again.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

Thanks for the insight you've provided on your page. It has been really helpful.

Here's my issues. I'm a Cancer female (38), and he's a Scorpio male (37. We met online 6 months ago. Since we've exchanged numbers, he has contacted me solidly by phone each day for the past 6 months without fail. When we first met, I went to his house for movie and a pizza but didn't have sex with him although he tried it. His uncle had just died, and he called me crying asking for support as in friendship presence. We'd been talking by phone for two weeks prior to this. I know, I know. The second day, you guessed, he ordered food and we watched a movie. I gave in. Since, every day has pretty much been in doors. I know, I know.

During the 2nd month of dating, he was totally distant with the exception of calling. He didn't invite me to visit at all. From the 3rd-6th month, I stayed over his house nearly every single night without fail. The problem is, we've only kissed one time. He doesn't cuddle with me at all. He's an obese guy and I'm a small woman. I thought maybe this had something to do with it although he cuddled extensively with my on date #1. We've only had sex in one position the entire time with me turned away from him. I know, I know. Yes, his profile is still active. Lately, I've sensed he's starting to talk to other women via text or calls. I exploded and expressed my concerns about a lack of commitment. Plus, I have not met any one his family although he invited me to a work trip where I went and met his coworkers.

Ten days ago, I initiated No Contact as self-preservation and to restore my dignity. He still contacts me regularly via a phone call or a text. Five days ago, he wanted to talk if I didn't mind. I still didn't respond.

Question. Do I allow a conversation for him to speak to me? Or, do I continue the NC for the entire 30 days?

Note: He texted and said that he likes me a lot and hate that I'm no longer there. I feel as if his liking me is not enough, and that he is using me as company and nothing more. Additionally, I've realized my errors of always being available, giving in physically too soon, allowing house dating, and not setting healthy boundaries. My emotional outburst was also an attraction killer. The only outside of the house dates were on my birthday. Also, I just feel as if he's not into me.

Thanks for any insight you can provide.

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