Dumper or Dumpee: Dating Help With A Break Up

We’re going to take an in-depth look into the concept known as dumper versus dumpee in the world of dating and a break up.

There is much debate as to who suffers more after a break up - the dumper or the dumpee? We’re also going to explore the likelihood of one or the other requesting a renewed relationship after the break up.

After much consideration, study and research on the subject, it could just be that the pain involved is not what affects the ultimate outcome. But we’ll get to that.
However, it does pay to explore where both, the dumper and dumpee’s, minds, thoughts and feelings may be at the time of the occurrence of a dump as well as month’s afterwards.

So let’s break this down by first taking a look at what might be going on in the mind of both the dumper and dumpee in this situation and then we’ll move along from there.

Dumper or Dumpee: Who’s Hurting More?

That depends. And I believe it depends on the reason for the dump. So let’s explore a couple of the most common reasons for this:

Man Disrespects or Disappoints The Woman

In this scenario, the reason for the break up is apparent – the woman feels disrespected and/or disappointed by the man in some way and, as a result, she feels compelled to stand up for herself and dumps the man before he begins taking her for granted. She doesn’t necessarily WANT to do this, yet she HAS to do this if she’s to be respected and treated properly by men.

As a result, I believe the woman, the dumper here, would be very open to a return from the man to reignite the relationship (unless he cheated). Chances are she’s hurting badly and left wondering why he did what he did that forced her to take this action. So if the dumpee, the man, returns to make amends, I believe he will have an increased success rate of actually repairing things and making amends, as long as his intentions are genuine, he apologizes, becomes accountable for his actions and shows the woman the respect she deserves.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumper is hurting more than the dumpee.

Woman Disrespects or Disappoints The Man

In this scenario, we have a couple of additional dynamics involved when compared to the situation above. And those would be 1) male ego and 2) male pride. These can complicate things and create a very different outcome. If a man feels embarrassed (pride) and emasculated (ego) by the woman and he dumps her as a result, he will be very hurt and the chances of him returning to reignite the relationship are decreased. As a result, I believe the man here would be less likely to return to reignite the relationship.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumpee is hurting more than the dumper.

A possible variable to that would be – if HE did something to bring this disrespect or disappointment from the woman upon himself and she then dumped him. In which case, after a considerable amount of time has passed since he’s last communicated with her (one to three months), he may begin to miss her and rethink things and realize that his actions caused the woman’s behavior. As a result, he may return to make amends and attempt to reignite the relationship.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumper would initially be the one hurting and the dumpee would begin to hurt some time later.

The Woman Chases and “Spooks” The Man Away

In this scenario, the woman is taking the natural order of things, man leads and woman submits as set by Mother Nature, and she’s turning things on their head here. Men view this behavior from women as very unnatural and, as a result, they start to make assumptions about the woman like, “needy,” “desperate,” “clingy,” and “emotionally unstable.” None of which make for a healthy relationship. Men instinctually recognize the signs of an unhealthy pairing and, therefore, tend to avoid one like the plague.

Men will run from the above scenario to take a breather and come up for air. To a man, this feels like one minute - he’s floating happily in a sea of possibilities. Then, all of a sudden and out of nowhere, Jaws grabs a hold of his leg under the water and begins pulling him into the dark depths of the ocean – and his possibilities are now all gone.

Given enough time and space (generally one to 3 months) in this scenario, a man may begin to miss the woman (if he has not had any contact with her since the break up) and there is a high likelihood that he will return. However, it won’t be to reignite the relationship – chances are it will be to start all over again, from square one, casually dating the woman, in an attempt to see if she’s really as crazy as he first thought she was.

Who knows, maybe he was wrong about her? That’s what he will think if the woman initiates no contact after the dump and disappears on him. The fact that she didn’t chase (as he expected her to) and act like an obsessed psycho will make him rethink his assumptions of her so he’ll begin to second guess himself and return to see if he might have been wrong.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumpee is hurting more than the dumper.

The Man Aggressively “Spooks” The Woman Away

Yes, ladies. Women run scared, too. I’ve done it myself. If a man begins to pressure a woman and move in on her quick, like lightening, and issues ultimatums to her, she may bolt and run scared - just as a man would do. She’ll develop suspicions about the man and she’ll wonder, “Why is he in such a rush? Does he have ulterior motives here?” Her trust for him will decrease; her suspicions of him will increase. It’s a fine line.

In these scenarios, it’s all about trust folks. Women are preyed upon as sexual objects by men daily and, as a result, their guard is up when they meet a man. If they feel that the pursuit is becoming unnaturally aggressive in some manner, much like a rabbit being chased through tall grass, she’ll feel like she’s being preyed upon. Her defenses will rise up and she’ll spring into action and run from what she perceives as an oncoming threat.

In the spook scenario, for men the oncoming threat is one of commitment. For women, the oncoming threat is one of being eaten up and devoured for dinner (sexed up and dumped) and left for dead.

However, much like men in the spook scenario, given a considerable amount of time to process what happened, the woman may eventually reach the conclusion that she might have been wrong about the man – that she might have misinterpreted his actions.

As a result, the woman may circle back around to the man in an attempt to communicate with him once again, to see if she was wrong about him. Or, after a considerable amount of time (one to three months), the man may return to touch base with the woman in an attempt to test the waters. And if his approach is soft, the woman will likely give him a second chance to reignite the relationship.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumpee is hurting more than the dumper.

Man Dumps Woman For No Apparent Reason

Hey, it happens. And usually, the dumpee, the woman, will spend most, if not all, of her time consumed with “why” this happened. Reliving it and rehashing it in her mind, over and over and over again.

There is a reason behind the break up. However, it could be one of many and trying to suss out the real reason is generally a waste of time, energy and effort. The reasons may include:

He’s a player and only intended to use the woman for sex and had no intention of a relationship.
He tried dating the woman in an effort to get to know her, and he did – and concluded that, for whatever reason, she wasn’t the one.
He’s a coward and he cannot communicate his feelings emotionally.
He’s cheating on the woman.
The woman pursued him and spooked him away.
The woman was emotionally needy, unstable, clingy and overbearing.
He thinks she’s cheating on him.
He got what he wanted, sex, and it’s time to move onto the next conquest.
An ex has resurfaced that’s distracted his attention from you, to her.
He met someone else more interesting while dating the woman.
He’s emotionally unavailable and has a deep rooted fear of commitment.
He lives far away and doesn’t want a long distance relationship.
He lives in another country and realizes that the two will never be together.
He’s a serial dater.
He was simply bored and looking for something to do at the time.

As you can see, attempting to boil down the reason to one single factor becomes near impossible to do. In which case, his level of interest will tell the tale. (And we’ll get to that below in a moment.)

The likelihood of the man returning is high here – IF the woman disappears and does not contact or attempt to communicate with and/or pursue the man after the break up. The chance of return is diminished if the woman who was dumped begins to pursue the man who dumped her because this will decrease his respect for her, his value of her and make her even more undesirable to him.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumpee is hurting more than the dumper.

Woman Dumps Man For No Apparent Reason

Much like the scenario above, it happens. And it can happen for all the same reasons listed above. And again, attempting to boil it down to one single reason is a fruitless effort.

Additionally, much like the scenario above, the likelihood of a possible return here from the woman is high. But if the man starts blowing up the woman’s phone or filling up her Facebook wall with pleas and attempts, his chances are then greatly decreased. However, if he waits a considerable amount of time (one to three months) and THEN makes a soft approach, a woman has a much higher likelihood of giving the man a second chance and viewing him in a different light. Because as I mentioned above, it’s the man’s level of interest that will tell the tale.

Who’s hurting more: In this case, I believe the dumpee is hurting more than the dumper.

The Level of Interest Tells The Tale

As much as there are a number of variables and clear dynamics involved in the dumper versus dumpee break up debate, I believe it’s the level of interest of the man involved that truly tells the tale.

It’s clear to see from the scenarios listed above that most times, it’s the dumpee that’s hurting worse. And this is simply because rejection, in and of itself, just plain hurts the human soul, man or woman. However, it’s the level of interest of the man that truly affects the end result.

And this is where it pays for men to pursue, not women – and I’ll explain why.

If a woman has a high level of interest in a man: She will begin to pursue him after the break up.

If a man has a high level of interest in a woman: He will begin to pursue the woman after the break up.

The Big Difference Is The Outcome

If a woman has a high level of interest in a man and pursues him after the break up: She willfully puts herself at a very high risk of being used by the man (for sex) – and being dumped by him - a second time.

If a man pursues a woman after a break up, regardless of who dumped who: He actually has a very high chance of winning her over, repairing things and entering into a long term relationship with her; he proves himself to the woman. It sounds strange, but I’ve seen it - time and time again. When you ask couples in long term relationships about how they met, many times you hear the woman say something to the effect of:

“When I first met him, I didn’t like him. But he pursued me – he grew on me and he won me over. I just couldn’t resist.”

Honestly, I think the relationships that have a greater chance of longevity are the ones where the woman rebuffed the man initially – and the man worked to prove himself to the woman.

As you can see, the same exact behavior can result in two very different outcomes.

This is because each gender, male versus female, views this behavior quite differently. Women view pursuit by men as the natural order of things – man leads, woman submits. It’s very primal.

However, when those natural gender roles are reversed – woman leads, man submits - the outcome can be very different.

And just a note of warning, ladies: If a man insists on YOU pursuing HIM, he’s insecure and chances are, won’t make a good boyfriend, lover or husband because of his insecurities and his inability to man up. If he can’t man up in the beginning, he’ll never man up during the relationship – when you need him most. You will always feel like it’s YOU working to hold things together while he sits, does nothing, takes, sucks you dry and completely exhausts you.

Men view pursuit from women as unnatural and desperate, while women view pursuit from men as the natural order of things, the way Mother Nature intended it, and see it as chivalrous, romantic and a sign of genuine interest.

Let’s face it, there’s nothing sexier than a man going to the ends of the earth to win a woman over. That’s the definition of Prince Charming. It’s reminiscent of John Cusack’s famous boom box scene in the 1989 movie, “Say Anything.”

However, when a woman does this, it’s not sexy at all. It signals emotional instability to the man, it angers and frustrates them, and decreases their attraction for the woman - FAST. It’s reminiscent of the “I will not be ignored” scene in the 1987 movie, “Fatal Attraction.”

The Natural Order Of Things

It’s simply the natural order of things, on a very primal level, for the man to lead and the woman to submit. So when a woman reverses those natural gender roles and turns things topsy-turvy, the end result is very different.

So in conclusion, it could just be that within the dumper versus dumpee psychological scenario – it’s not really who’s hurting more versus who’s hurting less that determines the ultimate outcome.

It’s the INTEREST level of the man – and the REACTIONS of the woman – that appear to be the single most important factor in determining the final outcome.

My advice to men: If you truly think the woman may be the one for you, after giving things considerable room to breathe, pursue her with all you’ve got. Set your ego and your pride aside, do not be discouraged, and pull out all the punches (romance) and go for it. Win her over.

My advice to women: Don’t overreact, keep your emotions in check and don’t over analyze the situation and heighten your insecurities. Give things considerable room to breathe and wait to see if the man’s genuinely interested. If he is, HE will pursue YOU.

If you want the relationship to work out in the end: Men, bring your “A-Game” to the plate. And ladies, keep your emotions “in check.”

“Do not allow negative experiences to make you bitter. They should make you wiser, and with that wisdom you shall find joy.” ~ Leon Brown

455 Comments:

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The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "I Was in a very serious car accident. I called him to tell him, he was having ice cream with his kids and just said for me to let him know if I need him. . .meanwhile my car was totaled"

WHAT??? The response a therapist has to a traumatic event being suffered by his loved is "Meh, lemme know if you need me." You shouldn't have to let him know you need him in an event like that. He's expecting you to invest and be a full blown step-mother without marriage, yet he can't even bother to invest by being a good boyfriend or lover first during a traumatic event?

The mere fact that his concern for you was only in passing for a moment and quickly slid off his back is probably the most troubling thing I see here in this whole thing. This man is manipulating you and epecting you to make huge emotional investments into him and his family, while he barely lifts a finger in that department for you himself?

"This made it more clear that I will never come before his kids which is not going to work."

The kids aren't even the issue with regards to the accident. Kids aside - where is this man's LOVE FOR YOU? Where is his CONCERN FOR YOU AND YOUR WELL-BEING and STATE OF MIND? Where is his INVESTMENT IN YOU? And weaving the children into this, why weren't they concerned as well? Why didn't they all drop their damn ice-cream cones and go to the hospital to comfort you, be by your side and show support for you? Why didn't he lead by example there and bring everyone together as a family? That was an opportunity for ALL OF YOU to become closer, and he completely blew it by instead showing his children that they can and should instead disrespect you and not care for you. He showed them that you're not a priority, you're not a family, and you're not worth missing out on an ice-cream cone for. He expects you to be a full blown step-mother to them for the next decade without marriage, while he shows them that they can disrespect you and show a lack for concern for you instead? This is truly unbelievable.

"I told him he should have fought for us, he said he did by telling me his issues."

You don't fight for something by running your mouth and using "words" to accomplish things - only "action" accomplishes things. And he has not taken one action towards showing an investment, showing respect, and leading his children and yours into a blended family.

I know this hurts right now. I completely understand the amount of disappointment you're feeling. And I understand completely that any hopes you had here about this situation are completely dashed. But things happen for a reason. Things that are meant to be will be. And things that are not won't. Everything happens for a reason.

Cont. . .; July 11, 2015 at 12:17 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: There's an old saying. . ."People come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. When you figure out which one it is, you will know what to do for each person:"

Reason (stepping stone): When someone is in your life for a REASON . . . It is to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally, or spiritually.

Season (expansion and lessons): When people come into your life for a SEASON . . .it is because your turn has come to share, grow, or learn. They may teach you something - but, only for a season.

Lifetime (put the work done and lessons learned to use): When people come into your life for a LIFETIME. . .your job is to love the person, and put all you have learned in all other previous relationships to use.

It appears this man may have entered your life for a reason and a season - but he is not the one that a lifetime should be invested into. THAT MAN, you have not yet met. THAT MAN will be one that is ready to invest a lifetime as well. THAT MAN, will be one that has also done the work and learned the lessons of his journey. And as a result, THAT MAN will instinctively know, and also be willing, to fulfill your needs. THAT MAN will not seek to deplete you, he will arrive with his cup full and anything he takes from you. . .he will willingly draw from his own cup to joyfully replenish yours.

Stand strong - this happened for a reason. And that reason is because. . .the BEST is yet to come ;-); July 11, 2015 at 12:18 PM
Gem50 said...: @anonymous 7/9 1:19,
when I read your post, my gut wrenched From memories of an old relationship with a man with kids. I was 27, he was 37. Our kids were basically the same age. His girls were "perfect" my son was not. My daughter was no problem.

This aries man eventually picked me apart as u said your guy has done; and I put up with it for too long.

After I learned he was not supporting his children as he should (by his father who verbalized his disgust towards his son sitting with me on a picnic bench slurring his words and mixing up his thoughts due to a stroke) I finally ended it for good.

And I can tell you that after I got through the grief, I was so very thankful to be away from him. Once the toxins are no longer infultrating ur life, you will feel the same.

Good luck to u dear, keep your kids as your priority. They will remember it always.; July 11, 2015 at 4:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Thanks for both of your responses! They have helped me tremendously.; July 13, 2015 at 10:25 AM
Jessica said...: Hi Mirror,

My boyfriend dumped me almost two weeks ago. Him and I had been experiencing some difficulties as to me being out of the country due to work for the last couple of months. I had told him that I would visit him back home but due to work circumstances I had to cancel more than once, that I do feel very guilty about. Here's the thing though he never made the attempt to come to me and visit me. All he did was complain that I was not going to him and he was waiting for me to visit and putting more stress on me to go. On top of that he never even offered to pay for my plane ticket to visit him, i felt as if he was acting lazy and almost like a woman and I had to be the man. Well the past 2 months I noticed a change in him he became flaky, not communicating with me as much, not calling really and I felt like I had to always look for him. But then he would come back super strong and be literally up my butt in looking for me, wanting attention, and being lovey dovey. I felt something was wrong, my gut was telling me that there was someone else on the scene. So I told him that I was able to visit him at the end of August so we could celebrate our one year anniversary together he said he was excited and couldn't wait for me to come but in my heart I knew something was wrong when he began dragging his feet letting me know about his vacation dates, etc. The breakup happened the end of July, he texted me telling me that he waited for me and I never came to see him. That he loves me and still loves me, his feelings haven't changed for me but he tried he swore up and down that he tried. I told him I sacrificed alot too for this relationship and he did not try he just sat there and waited like I was supposed to land on his doorstep and he wouldn't have to so any work. Your going to kill me Mirror but I asked him to try it again as I do love him very much. Now I cant believe I even said that to him.

Here's the kicker, the night before some woman sent me a friend request on Instagram but when I went to go check it she revoked the request. That sane woman made a fake Instagram profile and sent me a private message saying she was his GF and if I had anything to say to her. I was in shock..... I decided to take the high road and told her no she could have him. Right after that woman confronted me he blocked me on Whatsapp probably thinking Oh CRAP!!!!!!!!!! You see him and I have a very good mutual friend in common this person is the one that hooked us up together. This mutual friend was his former boss, the person that gives him clients on the side (both guys are lawyers) , and my ex would go to this friend for help being that he has more experience between the two. My ex ran and called him right away to find out if he had knew what had just happened, he did not get to speak to him because he was on a business trip. Needless to say the friend found out what happened, the mutual friend is like a family member to me so he heard it from me first.

Cont...; August 10, 2015 at 5:26 PM
Jessica said...: Part II

When he found out what happened he was pissed and could not believe that he vouched for this guy. He believed he was a good guy and wouldn't do something like that to me and practically a family member of his. I noticed a couple of days after the breakup my ex unblocked me, probably hoping I would reach out first. Dream on Buddy!!!!!!! Last week he posted a status on his whatsapp profile saying " if someone is important to me I demonstrate it everyday to them not one day yes and one day no". As soon as I saw that I laughed knowing what this fool wanted, he probably wanted me to react to that and text him first. What a TOOL!!!!!! He can't even except responsibility for what he did, no accountability what so ever. He left it up for 24 hours and left me unblocked when I didn't bite he blocked me again. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

These fools crack me up playing these kid games. Our friend called him and ripped him a new one telling him that he was disappointed in him and hurting his family and for that woman to confront his actual GF was very low class. At that point my ex asked what her and I spoke about? WHAHHHH ask her what was said that's your chick now right. Why does he want to know what was said? At that point our friend said he couldn't keep talking to him due to him being very immature and hung up the phone on him.

I continue my silence, I have nothing to say to him. If anything he needs to apologize to me, reach out to me for what he did. I wonder if he feels guilty at all? The friend told me I don't think anyone else in his family knows about her, he just spent time with my exes mother and she was gushing about me and how much she loves me. I am not breaking that fool can kick rocks. But as you say Mirror they all come back and yes I too have experienced men coming back. I have a sneaking suspicion these 2 won't last long, its as if he ran to the first person he could find like a desperation. I have a sneaking suspicion that fool will be reaching out to me, we are still Facebook friends and all. My silence speak for me and the treatment he gave me will not be tolerated.

What is going on in his head? Do needy, insecure guys like this come back? Do they feel remorse? And why did he want to know what me and the chick spoke about? Just ask her.....; August 10, 2015 at 5:50 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Jessica,
"Why does he want to know what was said?"

So that he can start concocting stories, excuses and lies around the truth in an attempt to slip out of all of this. But before he can do that, he needs to know how much of the truth was told.

"I wonder if he feels guilty at all?"

If he doesn't hear from you ever again - he will. It may take a while because at first he'll attempt to ignore those feelings of guilt, but after a long length of time, he won't be able to run from that anymore and chances are. . .it'll eventually come around to eat him up. Particularly since he lost not only a relationship with you, but a friendship as well due to this situation. So yea, I think that eventually guilt will be felt. And if that never happens, then he's a sociopath and it's best that you and your friend separated from him anyway.

"What is going on in his head?"

He thought he could have his cake (you) and eat it too (GF). But what he wasn't planning for was that the other woman he chose to pull into this would become unpredictable and uncontrollable LOL ;-)

"Do needy, insecure guys like this come back?"

Most of the time - yea. Their insecurities cause inconsistent behavior and nine times out of ten, men who are insecure cheat. I believe this happens because they need so much outside female attention to make themselves feel good, and feel like men (because they secretly don't feel good about themselves or much like men), that it's inevitable that they ultimately end up cheating. Because all of that attention seeking behavior draws a lot of women into their social circle, they suck up all the attention being given, and before you know it. . .they're "involved" in one way or another with multiple women.

"Do they feel remorse?"

Some do, some don't. It all depends on the individual. If they've got sociopathic tendencies that they've exhibited in the past, this could mean they won't feel remorse. But if they don't experience those tendencies, then most times, after a long period of them being ignored and not getting the attention they seek, they will feel guilt.

I read a book once, "The Manual: A True Bad Boy Explains How Men Think, Date, and Mate--and What Women Can Do to Come Out on Top" by Steve Santagati (who I believe is still an ass LOL) and in it he made a statement about that. He said that if a man treats you poorly, and breaks up with you poorly, and you ignore him from that day forward and never give him the time of day again. . .it eats the man up. And this is coming straight from the mouth of a self-proclaimed "player" and womanizer (who claims to be reformed but is still an ass in my opinion ;-)

Let your silence speak for you - and it just may eat this man up ;-); August 12, 2015 at 9:33 AM
Jessica said...: Who is he going to tell the stories and lies to anyway because no one believes his mess. Does he think he's going to come back around to me and try to feed me BS....I will let my silence speak for me. I will not speak to this fool ever again, yes he hurt me but I refuse to show him that he hurt me. Ultimately it was his loss, as our mutual friend told him that I was an amazing girl and therefore gave him the opportunity.

Mirror what was up with him blocking and unblocking me everywhere. I'm not stalking him or even looking for him. Does he just want a reaction? Do they keep tabs on us when we just vanish and never say a word to them? Also being that she is so unpredictable and uncontrollable do you think this relationship between them will last? Funny enough he made her his GF now ( he had no choice but to do so) which made me laugh, she knows what he's capable of heck she helped him.; August 12, 2015 at 1:27 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Jessica,
"Mirror what was up with him blocking and unblocking me everywhere."

People who are insecure exhibit inconsistent behavior because their behavior is driven by negative forces of fear, anxiety, worry, rejection, etc:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html

"Also being that she is so unpredictable and uncontrollable do you think this relationship between them will last?"

No, LOL. A man who will cheat WITH you, will surely cheat ON you - and when he does this to HER (and most likely he will), he's going to experience a world of unpredictable behavior that he will have no control over whatsoever.

The only way this situation with them will work, is if SHE is just as insecure as he is. . .and she's easily fooled, gullible, not strong enough to walk away, and willing to settle for the drama and games that he will surely put her through.

The best predictor of someone's future behavior - is their past behavior.

People tend to exhibit patterns of behavior as human beings and once you're "onto them" and clued into what those patterns are, it becomes relatively easy to see where things will ultimately end up in their future. My guess is that these two will be in la-la land here and very pleased with themselves for about oh say. . .a month or so, maybe two at best. They'll probably start spouting off about how in love they are, showing the world all their "stuff" on social media, and playing it up big time there. (Hint: The more they overcompensate for what they've done with big displays, playing up how in love they are for the world to see - the more likely it will implode quickly. When you're spending a large amount of time and resources trying to convince others that you're happy. . .it usually means you're not.)

And then after that, reality will set in, emotions will need to be dealt with and faced, insecurities will surface and begin to get in the way, arguments and troubles will begin that revolve around those insecurities (jealousy, lack of trust, etc.), things will slowly start to spiral downward as a result (because neither are probably emotionally equipped to successfully navigate that), eventually picking up speed until they've crashed and burned completely by the 3 month mark. At least that's what I foresee potentially happening here.; August 12, 2015 at 2:16 PM
Jessica said...: Mirror I was thinking the same, in being that she saw what he did to me she can't possibly think it will not happen to her. Like my friend Jason said she got to see first hand what a scumbag he is, trust me women are not stupid. She saw what he did but more importantly how he did it, she might have been cheering him on as the side chick but she saw what he was doing. She is just along for the ride really, he also feels the guy is a screw up and this wont last. Wow Mirror he said the same regarding "their happiness" , I asked him if he thought they were happy and glad they got me out of the way. He said no he's just trying to convince himself and others that he is and since he is stuck with her he is rationalizing it. This has nowhere to go but down. They are parading all over social media posting pictures left and right, throwing it in peoples faces.

Originally I felt like wow they must be super happy together but now I see what everyone sees about this imploding. Its good to have guy friends, he also said I see this DOUCHE coming back around to contact you when things don't work or start spiraling out of control with her. Great let him come back so I can give him the same disrespectful treatment he gave me but instead of using words I'll be doing it through SILENCE!!!!!!

It's what men understand right.... so I say give it to them :); August 12, 2015 at 3:37 PM
Jessica said...: Hi Mirror,

I wrote to you on August 10th regarding my ex that broke up with me. I have an update, I had previously stated that I was looking to be in his area to visit him and we were making plans. Well the breakup happened at the end of July and I had already requested those vacation days from work so I decided to go on vacation around the end of August, in fact I would be in his area somewhat. Well my friends and I went on vacation and while there I changed my profile pic on FB and of course he is watching on FB he likes my photo and leaves a comment. Stating how nice you were able to come for vacation!!!! I sensed him being a little sarcastic and condescending so I ignored it but then four text came in through Whatsapp and I thought it was a friend of mine. No! It just so happened it was him. I'll never forget it was August 23rd, Mirror is right they come back. He asked if I was okay, to take care of myself please and he apologized for what he did and asked for forgiveness. I was not going to answer but since he apologized I figured he's probably still with her and I don't really care. So I told him I was okay, I accepted his apology but I did not tell him if I forgave him or not. He then began to beg for my forgiveness, I told him I didn't know if I could forgive what he did to me. He said he understood but that he is no longer happy without me in his life, basically telling me he cares for me and loves me. I told him if he forgot that he know has a new GF or did he forget about that, he said NO I do not want to know about that woman she is not my GF. I don't even want to hear her name. Hmmmmm I wonder what happened sounds like she kicked him to the curb and his ego is hurt now. Hahahahhah!!!!!!!!!!!! These fools crack me up. Oh so now you want to run back to me and you realize I'm the love of your life.... RIGHTTTTTT. Well not only was he texting me but he began calling me everyday. I never picked up the phone. He said he was thinking of showing up at the hotel I was staying at if only I would tell him that I wanted to see him. Needless to say I never told him anything was super cold and didn't respond for hours if I even did. I would disregard some things he asked me. He began liking all my pics on FB and leaving comments. I came back home and his pursuit continued telling me I have a home where he is and that his place is also my place. Saying he was planing on coming where I was was in December. He began to get all lovey dovey as if he thought we would pick up right where we left off, I told him no too many things have happened. Whenever I would bring it up he would just tell me to stop because he did not want to be reminded of the stupid mistake he made and he lost me. He knows he was an idiot and a jerk for making that mistake and treating me as such. I told him I was glad he realized what we all knew already. He's been calling me repeatedly sometimes more than once in a day, I don't pick up and I think it drives him nuts. Hahahahaha!!!!!! I'm not ready to speak to him even if he does tell me how badly he wants to hear my voice, he sends me voice notes so I can hear his voice, He's sent pics of him and his son and says he wants to take custody of his son since the mom as of the beginning of August has left the country and left the kid with her mother.; September 8, 2015 at 5:32 PM
Jessica said...: Part II

I'm wondering if that had something to do with him and the chicks breakup. Anyways hes been up my butt but to me I fell something is not right, he said his son dropped his phone there fore he was chatting with me through a tablet so we only chat in the mornings or at night when he's home. Now someone gave him a loaner phone he could use but he doesn't want to download the app to the phone when I asked him why he didn't answer. It made me think he was lying to me because why wouldn't you wasn't us to talk more if you supposedly like you said were trying to repair this relationship with me. I told him that I saw what he was doing which was the same thing as before, this way he could hide me and not have to explain to anyone why we were chatting. He has not answered any of my texts but he has time to like other peoples pics on FB so I chalked it up to he's doing a disappearing thing.

Mirror did I over react or is something not adding up here? I feel like even if he is not with her since I feel based on his reaction that she gave him the boot that he is chatting up others. Something for me is just not right and when he contacted me my anxiety came back. I was fine until he contacted me and I began to feel this anxiety like before, maybe my body is trying to tell me something. I know the douche will contact me again probably waiting for me to forget and settle down. What do you think happened here with the chick and with me?

**Almost forgot Mirror not only did my ex come back and contact me but when I got off the plane and all my texts starting coming in I also received an text from another ex from 10 years ago. I call him Peter Pan hes delusional and doesn't take a hint to leave me alone. He keeps texting and calling me so I blocked him. What is the universe trying to tell me!!!!!!!!!! hahahahhaha. They all come back, its true. My most recent douche is no exception he'll be back again too with some BS excuse but I do not care.; September 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Jessica,
"Mirror did I over react or is something not adding up here?"

You didn't over-react. Your gut is speaking to you and you should listen to it. This isn't adding up.

"when he contacted me my anxiety came back."

That's how you know someone is no good for you - when the only feelings they bring you are of anxiety and misery :-(

"What do you think happened here with the chick and with me?"

I'm not even convinced she's entirely out of his life. What proof of this is there? Or is it just all a bunch of words flying out of his flapping gums LOL?

If things aren't adding up, don't make sense, there are no actions being taken that prove otherwise, he's shady and avoiding direct questions, and you're receiving nothing but a bunch of manipulative talk meant to appeal to your emotions. . .I'd keep moving forward, and have a laugh over this one.

His presence might be making you feel anxious - but how rewarding is it that he's come back groveling? That HAS to make you feel good. . .at least a little bit, whether it's BS or not LOL ;-); September 9, 2015 at 5:57 PM
Jessica said...: Yes Mirror,

It did make me feel very good and I had a good laugh and a huge smile on vacation when he kept calling me and texting me every day like a puppy dog. How pathetic!!!!!!!!! Not sure if they broke up or not but if they did not things must not be going to well he sure was giving me lots of attention. I suspect he has a phone and was giving me bullshit excuses to only speak to me at certain times which was when he was home. Telling me when I come over we won't have any problems seeing each other. If she accepted to be the chick on the side, I sure as hell was not going to accept that and he knows it too. I just felt that him using the tablet was a way to conveniently disappear for long periods of time and not have to justify it. Like oh I left the tablet at home and was out with my son so I couldn't talk to you. The simple fact when I asked him why he wouldn't add the app on the phone he borrowed and he didn't answer I knew it was BS. Cuz why wouldn't you want to talk more to a person, he had been calling me like a maniac even when I wouldn't pick up but that did not stop him from calling ;-) Always want what they can't have!!!!!!!

Mirror I have a sneaking suspicion this fool will be back again, the fact that it only took 3.5 weeks of me disappearing on his ass for him to grovel makes me think he'll be back again. Gosh it feels so good to know I have this power over this fool when all along he thinks he has power over me. I think what is driving him mad is the simple fact that he has not had me, in any form whatsoever and its irking him to no end. He becomes desperate to track me down, get me , see me, want to have me.... HAHAHAHA ;-)

What do you think or foresee happening Mirror!!!!! Love your insight :); September 11, 2015 at 11:09 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Jessica,
"What do you think or foresee happening Mirror"

He'll be back LOL. He might disappear again for several weeks or a month or so, but chances are he'll be back, trying to get your attention again.

And be warned. . .that may be all he's seeking here.

He may be the type that does this sort of thing for an ego boost. He may be insecure and as a result, he may needs lots of female attention to make him feel more like a man. And if that's the case, those types aren't reliable, consistent or committed. They go wherever their "need" for attention takes them. And whoever is giving the most attention is usually getting the most attention from these types.

And when that attention runs out and they hit a dry spell. . .they circle back around to others from their past in an attempt to receive it from them. Any way you slice it - these types can be like vampires. They go around from person to person sucking all the attention they can get from them.; September 13, 2015 at 1:00 PM
Jessica said...: OMG!!!! Mirror you are right on the insecure part. Check this out he is a 34 year old guy that lives with his mother, has no car, I'm sure his mom got hi the job he has. He is a lawyer but yet his job function is more like a paralegal. Now he has a son with an older woman who had two daughters when she met him. As I write this he checks off so many boxes in the insecure article you have here. His sons mother left to another country, this is the woman he keeps telling people that she still wants to get back together with him. Yeah so much so that she left to another country, now I hope she is just establishing herself and will send for her kids to come over.

When he contacted me now he told me he is going to get his own place because he wants to become more independent and wants his son to live with him. Now I just laughed because so far he can't even take care of himself. He walks around in designer clothes and gaudy sunglasses like he's the man and ladies love him. He has so many women that he follows on Instagram and FB and he likes the super tacky, ghetto chicks that are drinking in photos. Seems like he needs lots of female attention but once they talk to him enough they realize he has nothing to offer no money, no car, and no place of his own. He's a loser!!!!!!!!!!!! Now It's so unattractive and as I sit here I wonder why I ever liked him but he presented himself to me in a different light because he knew this would turn me off and that is exactly what I feel for him turned off. He is pathetic really. I have a sneaking suspicion that the woman that confronted me has also dropped him, I could never understand why he would risk a relationship with a woman like me beautiful, great job, responsible, etc for some tranny looking chick that looked more of a man that he did and loves to drink and hang out at bars. It seems a bit too easy to not use the " I had to leave her and I told her I wanted to be with you and I love you" excuse. It would have been very easy to make her look bad like that but he didn't he said "I don't want to know anything about her and please don't remind me of her and the mistake I made". That's when I said AH HA!!!!!!She must have done or said something to hurt his ego, something that was unforgivable.... HAHAHAHA!!!!!! These guys are such fools......

Your right Mirror he will be back and all I do is laugh really because he truly is pathetic and super needy. When I ignored his phone calls and such he came after me even more. He noticed I was pulling back but that didn't stop him from contacting me like a maniac. Fact of the matter is he has nothing to offer a woman and I believe that is why he is insecure.; September 14, 2015 at 12:33 PM
Jessica said...: Mirror he has disappeared, like he does not want to be found at all for what he did now. He blocked me on everything except FB where he can still see my profile and see what I am doing. He did this back in July when we broke up so it seems like its par for the course and its a repeat of the same thing until he makes his reappearance...... He seemed to clam up when I called him on his BS and he went to go hide for a few. What a Douche.; September 14, 2015 at 4:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror, (part 1) I wrote to you back on July 9, 2015 1:19PM and you responded on July 11, 2015 12:16PM, the 2 year relationship, blended families etc. Well I have an update and need you thoughts. After 4 months, I received a 3 page letter in the mail last Saturday. Now I have not called, texted, emailing nothing during our break-up, neither did he. I wish I could email you the letter so I will try to keep it brief. The first page was very nice and sincere, he missed me, grateful for our time together, named things he remembered, how our children were amazing together.He explained the summer was beautiful and filled with sunshine almost every day but for him came feelings of deep loss, beginnings of deep grief and sleepless nights.He kept fighting the feelings of our breakup until he couldn't anymore and everything hit him towards the end of august.He has gone back to his therapist to heal himself for the loss of me to find out that there was more to his grief than he allowed himself to know.So he brought up some disappointments he had in our relationship and discovered a pattern in his life. He was adopted and his adoptive mother was always emotionally unavailable to him so whenever he gives his all in a relationship and it ends, he finds himself in a dark pit. Also, his daughter was going through a really bad time, talking back, disrespecful to him, ungrateful etc.It was a pretty bad stage she was going through and my daughter who is 2 years younger, looks up to her, was picking up those bad habits.During that time, I said I didn't want his daughter rubbing off on mine. I apologized because it wasn't nice of me to say, but he said that devastated him.I understand that I was wrong for saying it, but at the same time, it doesn't change how I felt. I also am the type of person that just says how I feel, no sugar coating so if he takes to heart what I say, it's not my fault, he should know me. So he apologizes for all of the things he did, his faults, expectations etc. He thinks we could work through everything, as he did then but he ran and tried to protect himself, control the pain etc. So at the end he wrote that it's an open invitation to communicate, the door is open, I gave him a special gift in realizing that he could now heal etc. So, I was sure of what I felt. I was getting my thoughts together and taking my time........; October 18, 2015 at 10:51 AM
Anonymous said...: Part 2 of 10/18...As I got my thoughts together, Monday, 2 days after I receive the letter, he called my mother boyfriend(they have been happily dating for 12 years and he is like a 2nd father to me). He wanted to talk to him. I decided to write an email back to him to stop that because it's unfair to get him involved. So I write a kind of short and sweet response, that I have no bitterness towards him. I faced the hurt the second he left me when I was crying uncontrollably and my healing was accelerated when I saw him on match.com only 3 weeks after our breakup (a friend saw him so I looked for myself). He didn't fight for us and actions speak volumes.I wrote about the accident and how wrong it was and it's a horrible feeling I will never forget.I wrote his concerns were "duties" and nothing to do with love or a relationship and even though I am a full-time single working mother, I have a million things juggling but I made him feel nothing less than the love of my life.(I forgot in my previous post, he also wrote that he thought of reaching out to me everyday, but also deep down was hoping I would reach out and apologize.) I wrote that I have nothing to apologize for, I already apologized twice for saying what I said about his daughter.The "connection" with his kids didn't happen because they weren't open to it and they also don't have the same personalities as my kids.That he isn't ready to accept this and is in denial. I said I was happy I gave him a gift and that I realized we are in different stages of our lived. Mine was ready for our relationship where his wasn't. I was only looking for someone to share my already great life with, no restrictions, specifications or expectations.He was looking for someone to nurture him like a mother and looking for me to compensate for all the issues he has with his kids. My ending was it's nice to hear you are on your way to healing.When you get there, your life will be amazing and at peace like mine is, all the best.I was leaving it at that and he replied right away.he said I was correct in all I wrote, he apologizes for his faults especially with the accidents and wishes he could change it.even when he went on match(like the food that he was) he was searching for me and all that we had. he is truly sorry and wishes we talked sooner and asked if we can talk. he is still in love with me and never stopped and believes in us.I write I didn't see how things could be different,i'm me and he is him, 4 months, all of a sudden why? he write, not sure why 4 months, maybe so he ould face his demons. if we truly forgive and truly have love, we can conquer it.He knows we have a lot of work ahead but we have a strong foundation. So I end up calling him and we go through things and talk about them.I had to go after 30 min to take my daughter somewhere. He asked how I felt and I said I just don't know. He said that's OK, and he hopes we can talk again.Later I receive a text with him thanking me for being strong and speaking with him. he knows how difficult it must have been, I said yes it was and I needed time to process everything.He wrote I completely understand.We both know none of this was or is easy.I have so much more I want to talk to you about and maybe you do or maybe you don't.Either way, he will leave the communication up to me, again thanks. This was Monday so it's been almost a week. Oh and during our conversation, I said are you reaching out because you haven't had luck dating and it's easier to fall back on me etc.He said not and explained. So, I do love him, but not sure I can get past the accident, that he just left me like that and didn't fight for me. I think he thought he was more of a catch than he was. I am not perfect, but I really don't have issues, my kids are well-behaved, my life is set. He is kind of the opposite. Part of me wants to meet him for drinks and kind of let him talk and me defend myself and just to see what I feel like when I see him.; October 18, 2015 at 11:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Part 3...Other than the things I have mentioned, we didn't fight, we enjoyed each other, but the end was just a disaster that went down hill quickly. If I did try to move forward, I wouldn't be involving the kids and I would still continue to date other people. I am the type that once I am done, I am done so he would have to put in some serious effort to turn me around. I felt like he is so particular and expected these certain things, where I was just enjoying life and not letting things bother me. So I did enjoy being with him, but it sounds like he has a lot of issues. I thought of just seeing him now and then and keeping it at that, but I think eventually he would want more but it would give me time to see if things really change or was he trying to be someone he is not and then things just went on a downward spiral and he couldn't keep up the faced anymore, I don't know. I am torn. I have also been reading those books on dating etc where the woman shouldn't really do much and I gave him a lot but he brings up those duties so I feel like he isn't like a normal man and maybe is looking for a "mother" which I don't want to be. And I did say that to him. I don't want to regret not meeting and talking to him more so I feel like I have to do that at the very least. I would love to think we can work this out and live happily ever after, but not sure I believe that. I do know that at this point in time, I don't want to get married and I don't want to live with him and his kids, not sure I want to do that with anyone. I have a happy fulfilling life so I don't need this from anyone, not sure I want it. And it's nothing something, I have to decide now and I won't. I am just living life and what happens, happens. I tried to give you as much info as I can. What are your thoughts? Again, I appreciate your advise so much, it helped me tremendously.; October 18, 2015 at 11:32 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Oct 18, 10:51 AM,
Well, clearly as his therapist has uncovered - there are some deep rooted "mother" issues here.

Which explains why he was so demanding that you mother his children and him. It also explains why he was so disappointed in your attempts at that. It wasn't because you did a poor job and it or weren't trying hard enough. . .it was because you weren't his mother - literally. I think he thought someone could step in and fill that void and provide the things he felt he didn't receive from his mother, but in the end he realized it wasn't the same, and thankfully he went and got some help to deal with the real issue.

If you'd like to explore this, you're going to need to keep a healthy distance this time, and I think you understand the value of that. It will provide you a much needed observation period. And that's necessary because this guy isn't healed yet. You don't repair a lifetime of emotional damage and suffering in 4 short months. This will be a work in progress for him for years in truth. And it will be hard for him not to revert back to old ways of thinking and old expectations. The good thing is that he's aware of that tendency now, and he's acknowledged it - which is half the battle in and of itself.

So if you proceed, be mindful not to become emotionally involved early on. Keep him at arms length. You can support him in that manner, you don't have to be standing right there next to him. And you don't have to take his "stuff" on as your own, or turn him into some years long "project" and attempt to "fix" him. Let him work through his stuff on his own, because it's the only way he's really going to be able to move past it.

Leave the kids out of it - all of them, yours and his. And look at this as a friendship only for right now. You're supporting a friend in need, nothing more. And if you see him starting to revert back to old behaviors and expectations. . .that's your cue to pull back - way back - on him. Don't get caught up in his "stuff" again.

If you can do that, you may be able to set a new course with him. That's not a guarantee and a lot of this actually depends on HIM, not you. But this isn't going to happen overnight, and it's not going to be easy. So be mindful of how deeply involved you let yourself become. And be mindful of how much of yourself you put into this. Make no emotional investments for a very long time - like months.

And if all of that goes well, and you decide to give him another go. . .I'd suggest that you do not do that until you have had a couple of visits with him and his therapist as well. That's where you will truly get the opportunity to have a "voice" about this. You will be able to share your side, and your feelings, in a safe and secure environment without judgement or admonishment. And you will have a therapist there to help you get your voice across to him.

And when you find yourself too drained or too emotionally exhausted to deal with him or his "stuff" - then you don't deal with it. Again, you pull back and you place a nice healthy distance between you two and you take time to take care of yourself and refresh your spirit. Again, not investing too much.

First and foremost, take care of yourself - always - as you explore this.; October 20, 2015 at 8:33 AM
Anonymous said...: I did speak with him and apparently his "mother" issues aren't as deep seeded as I was thinking. This is what he said to me. He is still in therapy "learning and discovering things about himself". So he is obviously not seeing what we are, which is concerning. He suggested for me to go. I said I don't see why I would, I am in a good place. He said because you learn about yourself, etc. He said it was a suggestion. We decided that we will continue to talk over the phone. I do want to see what I feel when and if I meet him because right now, I can take it or leave it. I am in defense mode and I told him that. He said he is too, we both protect ourselves. I didn't say this to him, but I think if things work, he will want to get married and I just don't think I want to get married again or move in with his kids. I will keep that to myself for now and go slowly, I guess. I really wanted him to sound like he was fighting for me and us and I wanted him to almost not take no for an answer, but he didn't. I know I shouldn't have expectations, but if he did that, I would be more open to this. I will continue to date other people and see where this goes at the same time, but I don't have a good feeling. Maybe it's normal, I don't know. Neither of us know if we will move forward, but are just going to talk and see what happens. We did have a lot of good, but I still don't think he will ever get past or admit the issues with his kids. I guess I'll know after we have a few more conversations.; October 20, 2015 at 12:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror-- I'm sharing this note as I've seen a number of comments over the years where women get dumped, don't know where they stand, or lose emotional control after sex.

Several weeks ago, my dating situation with a man ended via a text message where he decided that he thought i was 'awesome, but we should just be friends for now' because he felt'this was starting to feel too serious.' I haven't contacted him since and neither has he so I consider it over. We were casually dating for 4 months, and hooked up 3 times starting on the 8th date. The courtship process was amazing, we did many fun things, and he treated me special. Things fell apart after we started hooking up, and our dates became sporadic while I wanted more. After the third hook-up, I realized that I couldn't continue hooking up without some form of commitment and hinted about the removal of myself from the situation. He would always leave with a lame excuse and never even call the next day save for one drunken 2 AM text..I felt very disrespected at that point and was honest with him about it. He asked me how I felt after the final encounter (fully intimate, and we were both hesitant during the act) and seemed apologetic, but I hadn't heard from him for two weeks until he finally asked me out. For the last date, I did call with a slight change of plans. He sounded very disappointed, and I felt bad and mistakenly offered to accommodate despite realizing that he wasn't very respectful of my time. The very next day he sent the break up text and asked me to 'chill'.

This was my first actual dating situation, first man with whom I was intimate (I told him this), and first real heartbreak all in one. I did notice that after our first hook-up, he became a little distant...and I went into overdrive trying to save it or at least preserve a friendship--even hanging out on his birthday (he seemed bored with that). Deep down inside, I knew I was settling and was so anxious or overthinking his and my own behavior in those final weeks. Throughout this dating situation, I heard bad advice from other women that essentially told me to pursue him instead of trusting my gut, which was screaming that I either lean back or end it altogether.

Since then I've been battling with sleepless nights and daydreams of what could have been had I waited longer to have sex with him or hadn't brought him to my apartment at the end of that eighth date. What if I had fully walked away after hinting at commitment--would he have turned things around? Did I ruin my chances with a potentially good man? Will there ever be another man who could treat me well and offer me the commitment? Was I acting like a fool? He was a decent guy, who was honest, genuinely liked me, and treated me with respect until the hook-ups and that final text.

I've slowly continued dating others casually (no sex) and none of them compare, but I want to forget the other guy and remember that there are full gentlemen out there. I've even thought about calling him to share my perspective, but do not intend to based on the points you share in the article when a man dumps you for no apparent reason and not wanting to lose even more of my dignity pining for a man or being used for sex and dumped a second time. It's painful and humiliating, but I don't regret taking the chance at love for the first time and am now starting to understand that there are no guarantees in dating or relationships anyway.

This note is more of a thank you for helping us women to hold our own when dating. The heartbreak around getting dumped is harsh--especially when it could be one of many reasons--but seeing your blog and reading the stories helps me to put it all into perspective. So, once again, many thanks to you and for all that you do; you are sincerely appreciated :-); December 8, 2015 at 6:09 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Dec 8, 6:09 PM,
Sigh. . .you live and you learn dear :-(

It happens to all of us. We can't control others and make them love us or want to be with us. And when they don't, it's simply a sign that the RIGHT one is STILL OUT THERE.

Have faith in that - and believe.; December 8, 2015 at 6:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Okay so I don't know if you guys still write back in this thread or not, but I'd like to share my story and maybe ask a question?

Me and my ex girlfriend split up about a month ago, it was out of nowhere and her reason was we have been growing apart. We've been dating for 3 years and lived together for 2. The first 2 years were amazing and we ended up moving out of state together because she was offered a new job. We loved it, fresh start, new apartment and we finally had a great area to walk our dog we adopted two years ago. I found a job when we moved but eventually I had to quit because the hours sucked and I began looking for a new job. Unfortunately the last 4 months of our relationship I couldn't find a job and became very stressed and lazy. My ex never seen me like this because when she met me i was always focused on my future career and health. I spent time thinking after the breakup and noticed we made some bad mistakes during our relationship. We spent everyday together, never had time apart, to dependent on eachother and we just became bored because of all of this. We haven't really spoke since the split. Maybe like 3 times? First time she contacted me about some mail I had got and she continued to have a conversation, the next 2 times I began the conversation and she always wrote back to me and we had decent conversations. About two weeks ago I decided to cut contacting her so I could begin to work on myself and get back to who I use to be. My only question is, I tend to read alot and people always say don't contact her because it'll come off as me being "desperate, needy" but then I read this article and it seems like your saying I should be the one trying to win her back after some time apart from each other?
I've decided to give it another month and continue to get my life back together and get back on track. Should I contact her after this month ends?; January 9, 2016 at 2:58 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Male, Jan 9, 2:58 PM,
"Should I contact her after this month ends?"

This is a personal decision. However, if you decide to do so, It'd probably be best to have found employment before doing so. That way, when you do make contact, there's some positive change that's taken place. Because I think this may have been part of the major cause of your breakup.

Ambition is a very attractive trait for a man to have and women admire it in a man. It proves he's a "take charge" kind of guy that you can rely on. One that's consistent and steady - like your "rock" so-to-speak. And I imagine that when the both of you moved out of state together, you were acting as a team at that time. And unfortunately, that isn't the much needed momentum the relationship was able to maintain and I suspect that disappointment set in with your girlfriend as a result.

You say the breakup came out of nowhere but in truth, I suspect you know where it came from. For just a moment, look at the situation from your girlfriend's perspective for just one moment. You two are a team, you're taking on the world together, you're both taking a big risk together moving out of state, away from family, friends, etc. and relying on one another to make it a success.

But then you quit your job.

And after doing so, by your own words you then became "lazy." So now all of a sudden, the team is no more. And in making the choice to quit your job prior to finding another one, you chose to place 100% of the risk and burden of making this a success onto your girlfriend's shoulders.

You bailed on her, ya' know?

And I suspect she felt very disappointed, a bit like she had the wool pulled over her eyes, and waited for that to change but it never did. And when she realized nothing was changing, she also realized her feelings had changed as a result.

I really don't think this breakup was about spending every day together and becoming bored. I think it was much deeper than that. I think it was about issues of trust being broken. I suspect she trusted in you that you would perform your agreed upon part as one half of an operating "team" so-to-speak. And when you chose to quit your job before having a replacement position, you quit the team. I suspect she probably feels that may have been a bit selfish as well because in doing that, you had placed all of the responsibility onto her and her alone without giving much thought as to how that would affect her. And as much as you may have felt entitled to do so, the reality is that once you've entered into a committed relationship with someone, you're making a COMMITMENT to them. You're making a commitment to think about them, to include them into your decisions (because your decision now affect someone else, not just yourself), and to make choices that help the team, not hurt it or place it at risk.

So in essence, I suspect that your girlfriend felt you did not honor your commitment to her, or to the relationship. And instead, you acted as a singular being and made a choice for yourself that did not include her, that affected the relationship and put it at risk, and affected her and her feelings.

As a result, if you're going to make an approach, I'd make sure that there's something positive to report when you do. Because if you make this approach and you're still in the same circumstances as before, you will have less influence.

Cont. . .; January 11, 2016 at 9:02 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "I tend to read alot and people always say don't contact her because it'll come off as me being "desperate, needy"

While that can be true in many situations, in this one I don't think that's the case. If you return, it won't be because you're desperate or needy, it'll be to right the wrong that was made. And in this case, I suspect the "wrong" that took place was breaking the commitment to your girlfriend and the relationship by acting as a singular being when the reality was that you actually made a commitment to be one half of a team.

Does that make sense?

When you enter into a commitment with someone, you no longer have the right to make singular decisions. Instead, you have to make these decisions together as a team. You have to sacrifice your own needs at times and think of the team instead. You have to do things you don't want to do to support the team and honor the commitment made.

It's all part of the "work" required to have and maintain a healthy relationship.

And if someone does not want to make that type of a commitment, they're free to make that decision for themselves. Sometimes we think we're ready for committed relationships but in truth, we're not. We're not ready for the sacrifices, we're not ready to give up our ability to make singular decisions for ourselves, we're not ready to do things we don't want to do in order to make someone else happy, etc. And that's okay. If that's the case, that's entirely acceptable. . .but that also means that if that's the case, you're not ready for a truly committed relationship. Because again, relationships require work and sacrifice.

So if I were you, I'd continue doing what you're doing - getting your life back on track and getting yourself back to a good place where you're confident and positive once again and standing on your own two feet. Once you've accomplished that, I would contact her without expectation. Meaning, I would contact her and I would take responsibility for my actions by apologizing for them and showing empathy for the situation that my singular decisions placed her in. I would acknowledge that, at that time, I failed to honor my commitment to her and the relationship, and I would apologize for that.

And then that's it. I wouldn't expect anything else at that time. I would simply take responsibility for my actions, apologize, and acknowledge my part. And then I would let that sit with her. I would let her think about that. I would let her think about the maturity that action shows, and I would let her think about me taking responsibility for that and showing her some understanding.

If she still cares for you, I suspect this will all resonate deeply with her. Because I suspect these may be the types of things she needs to hear. And if I'm correct in that, and she still cares for you, it's quite possible that once this has all sunk in with her and she's been acknowledged. . .the feelings she has for you will be able to surface once again and the relationship might have a chance at slowly building itself back up again. She may not trust you right now. She may feel she can't. She may feel you've let her down and broken that trust. But taking these actions can help her heal her trust. Her seeing you actually DO these things (instead of simply talking about them) will help build her trust in you once again.

Nothing is a guarantee in life, however, doing the right thing very rarely steers you in the wrong direction ;-); January 11, 2016 at 9:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes I totally agree with everything your saying!
When we use to spend time together, I'd always ask her if she wanted to go do something else but she always said she liked spending time with me at home and with the dog. When she first split with me it was supposed to be just a break but I did stupid stuff "desperate, beg" and eventually she called it a break up and she mentioned us growing apart but I thought that was just her trying to soften the blow. I asked her the next day to reconsider and she said "not right now" and then I said well what am I doing? Am I moving on? Or do I give you space and time and she said "I'm not worried about moving on, I'm focusing on my job and you should focus on yourself but I'm not making promises" so I never contacted her again after that.
Since I moved out I've gotten 2 new jobs, I've already saved up enough money to put a down payment on a new vehicle next month since we only had one car and I've started online classes to finish my degree in programming. It's hard for her to actually see my changes because I moved back to our hometown 2 hours away and of course I don't want to "tell her" all these things I'd much rather show her.
So my plan is to wait until the end of the month which will be 2 months since we broke up reach out to her, but nothing about the past, only casual talk and then eventually if she warms up, I'll ask her if I can meet up with her for coffee or maybe see if she wants to see our dog. Then we'd be able to talk face to face.

that was my original plan. Your thinking I should contact her and tell her I'm sorry for everything first?; January 11, 2016 at 2:59 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Male,
"my plan is to wait until the end of the month which will be 2 months since we broke up reach out to her, but nothing about the past, only casual talk and then eventually if she warms up, I'll ask her if I can meet up with her for coffee or maybe see if she wants to see our dog. Then we'd be able to talk face to face.

That was my original plan. Your thinking I should contact her and tell her I'm sorry for everything first?"

Well - my only thought there was that it's possible that in order to warm up to you, she needs "acknowledged" first (her feelings need acknowledged). Otherwise, it may simply appear to be "more of the same" to her at first, and she may clam up as a result.

Let me explain.

As a woman, there have been many times in life and in relationships that I've felt taken for granted and undervalued. It's almost as if, in these times, I became too nice, too reliable, too agreeable, too predictable, too consistent that what was originally me "going over and above" actually turned into something "expected" of me. And once it became expected of me, it was no longer viewed for the act it truly was - which was me going over and above the normal call of duty.

So what I had been putting an enormous amount of energy into (going over and above) - actually became the very thing that, in the end, caused me the most grief (constantly being required to go over and above without acknowledgment).

Eventually, this would lead to a feeling of unfairness. And yes, next comes a feeling of growing apart. And that comes from the fact that all the weight you're towing and all you're doing to go over and above is no longer being acknowledged. So you feel alone, and you feel unheard.

You begin to feel invisible.

You begin to feel as if you're simply a means to someone else's end. Like a nameless, faceless tool or an appliance like a washing machine. (No one ever thanks the washing machine for doing such a consistently good job at cleaning the laundry again, and again, and again LOL. The washing machine is "expected" to a reliable tool and appliance.)

And this person no longer recognizes you, no longer appreciates all you do -- and ultimately, no longer values you as highly as they once did.

This is a very normal, very human pattern of behavior, to respond to that type of environmental stimuli in that manner. You begin to shut down. You begin to shut down emotionally. (Like the washing machine whose gears worked so hard and ran consistently for so long that they're now battered and malfunctioning.)

And once that shut down takes place - it's only by "acknowledging" that the individual finally feels "heard" and "valued" and "appreciated" once more. It's really one of the only things that can break down the wall that's been built up in self defense to even hold a healthy, productive discussion.

Because when I've felt like this in relationships, and I broke up with the man, and he returned a few months later with "Hey, how are you?" Or, "I was thinking about you, how have you been?" A lot of times I wouldn't respond because it looked like "more of the same" to me. It looked like the guy was fine and was just swinging by to say hello and just wanted to make small talk.

Cont. . .; January 11, 2016 at 5:40 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: He wasn't really "talking" about what needed to be addressed. Like - there's a big huge pink elephant in the room, and he's looking at the dust bunny in the corner instead and ignoring the elephant he can barely see around LOL. And I'll admit, there were times stuff like this infuriated me.

Because I'm still feeling invisible, the big pink elephant is what's standing in front of me. . .and he's still pretending it's not there LOL.

Does that make sense?

When you don't acknowledge someone's feelings, it basically signals that's because you place no value on them. In order for healthy communication to take place, people's feelings need to be acknowledged first. When you don't do that, you're treating them like an appliance (like the washing machine that has no feelings).

I'm not saying she'll feel this way. And I'm not even saying that would definitely work. But I am vibing off my gut here as a woman and I do know that acknowledgment can go an awful long way to influencing positive relationships.

Because without acknowledgment, they remain invisible (because you're treating them as non-human).

LADIES - there are lots of you here with me - any thoughts here about this? Can you relate? Do you think "acknowledgment" and bringing to light the invisible here will open the door to communication?; January 11, 2016 at 5:41 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Male,
I should clarify that what I feel may have been her going over and above here was the period of your unemployment and her supporting you during that - and doing it even though you didn't "acknowledge" your commitment to her and the relationship by making the decision singularly, instead of together as a team.

And then watching you become "lazy" (your words, not mine LOL) after doing so.

That is a situation that will build resentment, and will also require the one left as "expected" to put twice as much energy and carry twice as much responsibility (like an appliance).

I hope I'm making sense here. (Or maybe I need to go have a talk with my washing machine LOL ;-); January 11, 2016 at 5:47 PM
Anonymous said...: No I know exactly what you mean. I actually told myself that a few weeks ago, it's exactly why I don't hate her for the choice she made to leave the relationship. I backed her up into a corner and forced her hand when I became lazy and unappreciated her. Ultimately even though she may have been showing me that she loved me, she really probably felt alone in the relationship without a helping hand. We use to be a team and near the end of the relationship I took that team apart and was dumb enough to not realize it.

I understand that maybe I should apologize to her, like an actual really apology (not the first apology I did after she left me when I said I'd change and blah blah lol).

I guess the only thing holding me back from doing that is if she doesn't reach out before I do, wouldn't it be alittle awkward for me to just apologize the first time we spoke?
Like should I maybe start up a conversation and once she warms up, then tell her I'm sorry for my faults? Or do I just flat out open up with an apology, wish her the best and then wait and see if she ever responds?; January 11, 2016 at 6:21 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Male,
". . .wouldn't it be alittle awkward for me to just apologize the first time we spoke?
Like should I maybe start up a conversation and once she warms up, then tell her I'm sorry for my faults? Or do I just flat out open up with an apology, wish her the best and then wait and see if she ever responds?"

Well, how about a little of both -- combined with a romantic surprise?

Why not send her flowers (something unexpected and surprising to make her feel special) with a handwritten note that says, "I miss you and I'd like to talk. I feel you deserve a sincere apology and I'm hoping you'd be open to meeting me for coffee."

And if she's a good girl, meaning a nice girl, she'll feel compelled to do the right thing in response to that -- and she'll either pick up the phone to thank you for the flowers, or she'll text.

And the door is now open.

If she ignores that and does not respond, well then. . .you have your answer. If she responds and thanks you. . .you have a crack in a slowly opening door ;-)

I know this might sound cheesy, and yea, it might feel awkward. . .but you know what they say - the magic always happens right outside your comfort zone LOL ;-)

It's an admirable, noble gesture. And even if she never responds, that's the last thought of you that will stick with her - a good, positive, romantic thought. Which could ultimately land you in a good place later on down the road at some point in the future, you never know.

But hey, if it ends up that you're going out the door anyway - why not go out with a big bang LOL ;-) Either way, it's a very nice thing to do for her and most likely, she'll respond to it, or at the very least remember it fondly.

Ladies, thoughts at all?; January 11, 2016 at 6:50 PM
Gem50 said...: @Anonymous Male,
I agree with Ms. Mirror with her perception of your gf's actions.

I'll answer your 6:21pm question with this thought: You say the relationship ended with her making a choice based on your "weak" behavior (lazy, unappreciative). So move forward in strength.

If you start off with b.s. lame stuff, she's going to think it is more of the same. You can be direct AND be respectful. Tell her you understand how your actions must have hurt her, apologize for putting her in the position of having to make that hard choice. Let her know you've made some changes (don't tell her what they are) and then ask if she will meet you for coffee (name a public place near her).

And then leave her alone. Do not contact her again... give her time. I am sure she will contact you eventually, but she may first test you to see if you respect her right to choose to see you and/or check around first to see what you've been up to.

Actions speak louder than words, and it sounds like you've taken action to address the lazy. When you meet, apologize again looking her in the eyes as your equal. Then you can tell her of the changes you've made: moved, work, school. But do not present it to her as if you are trying to get her back. You've been doing this because it is the right thing to do (period). Don't push her to give you feedback, but if she does, just listen. And if she doesn't say anything right away, don't be afraid of the silence. Don't push, don't defend yourself, don't try to make your case, just listen and accept her feelings (this is your strength). Don't ask her to make any decisions about you, don't ask about her personal life, don't push on anything. This is a first step by you to acknowledge your behavior and apologize.

At the end of your meeting, if you want to see her again, tell her you'd like to but you will give her time to think about it, and if she would like to get together again for coffee, you will be happy to hear from her. And then don't contact her. You continue to move forward in what you are doing.

Living our lives honestly is the best of what we got. Without it, we aren't truly living. I commend you for being honest with yourself and doing the work to see your mistakes and to get yourself right.

All the best :); January 11, 2016 at 7:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Wow... lol what are the chances of this. I get done reading your post and my phone goes off, I look down at it and it's my ex.. she just asked me if I wanted to be with her for valentine's day because she wants to "talk". I agreed and she said she had to go but would call me tomorrow night. What's the odds of that?; January 11, 2016 at 8:34 PM
Unknown said...: I absolutely love MOA and always agree with just about everything said. And in the past I might have agreed with the final advice in this blog article for men to seriously and romantically pursue a woman he loves who is no longer in his life. However, I just read an article on a different site which has given me a whole new perspective on men who chase hard after a break up. The article suggested that men's "persistence" is aggression. It implies that a woman has NO AGENCY within the relationship (or her own life). It implies that "no" is not a complete sentence. Society tells women that we have the right to say NO and that our answer should be respected. Period. But if a man pursues a woman "with everything he's got" after a break up, and wears her down over a period of time or activates her people-pleasing good-girl tendencies, what he is doing is not actually "romantic". It is busting boundaries. Assuming that women don't really know what they want, that saying "no" or "it's over" to a man actually means "maybe" or "try harder" is a dangerous message. I wonder how we can honor the natural instinct of men to pursue (which I endorse completely) while still respecting a woman's RIGHT to say NO when enough is enough, and mean it. I have had men pursue me after a break up and I completely shut down emotionally and became afraid and repulsed by their aggression, disrespect and blatant disregard of my wishes. No means no ladies (and gentlemen).; February 4, 2017 at 10:38 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @J Forsythe,
Thanks for commenting with some very good insight. I think it's important to note though, that extremism (stalking, harassment, repeated contact, etc.) is not what I'm recommending here when I say "pursue her with all you've got."

What I'm suggesting is to simply make one last attempt to repair whatever it was that caused the break up in the first place - "after giving things considerable room to breathe" first - via one last romantic gesture. That could be an invitation to dinner. It could be sending flowers and asking to meet for coffee and a discusion on neutral ground. It could be sincerely apologizing after things cool down in the hopes that she'll do the same and a fresh start can be gained. A last gesture along those lines, that is respectful and infused with something romantic, after things have been given considerable room to breath - so that clear communication can be attempted one last time after heightened emotions have subsided.

The woman has free will and the power of choice in the situation. She can choose to attend, or she can choose not to. If at that time she chooses not to participate, then you know it's over for good and you did all you could to attempt a reconciliation.

I'm not suggesting that repeated harassment, stalking or badgering after that should take place. It's simply about one last attempt at reconciliation and clear communication AFTER heightened emotions have subsided. Because if you attempt this immediately, while emotions are heightened, clear communication will likely not be able to take place.

After a break up, a roller coaster of emotions is generally felt. And many times, weeks later a desire for communication or even "closure" as many say moves in. I'm simply suggesting making an effort to communicate with the woman in a gentlemanly manner after both parties have worked through all those emotions, so that they do not interfere and hamper a possible reconciliation. (Because emotions are causing too much bickering to take place, therefore, neither party is feeling validated or "heard" and a true understanding of one another is unable to be had.); February 6, 2017 at 9:04 AM
Anonymous said...: Oh, Mirror...Where do I start? I am 64 and have been widowed for 2 years after a wonderful marriage of 35 years. I have read and reread your insightful posts to help me spot players, deal with disappearing men, and use NC.

About 8 months ago, I met a guy who pursued me relentlessly. He was very considerate, the one who pushed for the commitment, said he loved me first, etc., I kept the pace slow and steady, and over time, a nice relationship took hold. Just for quick background, many would consider me to be out of his league in looks, finances, education, and so forth. I don't mean to sound conceited, but for him, I should be considered a great catch. Despite the differences, in my opinion, our similar interests and enjoyment of each other's company more than compensated.

Two weeks ago out of nowhere (no fights, arguments, or known problems), he said he wanted to take a break, but would not tell me why. I'm almost positive there isn't another woman. I told him that unless he wanted to work on the relationship (give me reasons) then we were no longer together. I left the door open by saying that if he wanted to date me again, he could call me and we could talk about it. Then I went total NC. Of course, I'm taking this hard. I miss him and would love to have him back, although, logically, I know I will eventually bounce back if it ends. It bears mentioning that he has had 5 failed marriages over the course of his life although I was clear that I wasn't interested in remarriage. In so many ways, this relationship was great. I'm sure that he is somewhat insecure (yes, I read that post a bit late. Ha!)...perhaps he has a bit too much "quit" in him after many rocky romances.

So, finally my question: Should I continue NC forever, or should I extend a friendly text in a couple of months as an olive branch so that he doesn't give up? I want to maintain my dignity and self-worth, but I am going crazy wondering what the hell happened. I thought we had a great relationship. I tend to be a pleaser by nature (typical nurturing woman), and I never gave him reason to think I was anything but happy. I know that many people would wonder why I don't give up and find someone closer to my "level", but I never felt like I was settling. So, do I ever break NC and if so when and how? What are the chances he'll realize on his own that he lost something great and come sniffing back, or will he just go lick his wounds in his man cave, too afraid to deal with me? At least at this point, NC has allowed me to be more curious than furious. But I'm getting tired of letting him live in my head rent free.; March 21, 2017 at 10:48 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Mar 21, 10:48 PM,
"It bears mentioning that he has had 5 failed marriages over the course of his life although I was clear that I wasn't interested in remarriage."

I don't mean to sound judgmental but the reality is that the best predictor of future behavior is - past behavior.

People who leap from relationship to relationship (otherwise known as "relationship jumpers") and marriage to marriage are, generally speaking from my own opinion, people that are:

1) afraid to be alone (insecure)
2) in love with the "idea" of being in love (fantasizer)
3) confuse the "high" of the early days with love (lust)

And then reality sets in, and the fantasy dissipates. So they free themselves only to be caught up in the wind, feet floating above the ground, excited by the "high" of new possibilities. So they rinse and repeat.

But once that "high" wears off and those feet hit the ground again, they're off. . .to recapture the high again. (It can't be recaptured with someone they've already experienced, it has to be new to be exciting for them.)

And while this all sounds very magical and dreamy and utopian in a sense, it's not very realistic to think that you'll feel that same excited high with one person forever. Which is why they keep chasing it and chasing it and chasing it.

They confuse LUST (the excitement and high of the early days of dating) with LOVE. And find themselves disappointed all the time because they don't realize that true love is not always exciting and it changes and morphs over time and is laced with elements of companionship.

They're like "love junkies" (i.e. lust junkies). Desperate for their next "fix" (muse).

"perhaps he has a bit too much "quit" in him after many rocky romances."

I don't think that's the case. . .he has a lifelong pattern of behavior that's consistent with his current behavior. And again, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

He's been inconsistent and endless "searching" his entire life, never really settling down for a lifetime with anyone :-(

"Should I continue NC forever, or should I extend a friendly text in a couple of months as an olive branch so that he doesn't give up?"

That's up to you. And here's what you need to think about. Having come out of a solid 35 year marriage and seeing what it takes to maintain one. . .do you really think this man, given his past history, has what it takes to maintain a lengthy relationship or "forever" love like that?

If your answer is no - then chances are you should let him go and seek out a stable, consistent man that's reliable and knows what it takes to maintain a lengthy relationship, warts and all.

"I am going crazy wondering what the hell happened"

I wouldn't bother wasting time and energy on that. This man has been married 5 times. . .how many women do you think he dated before and between those marriages? If he walked down the aisle 5 times, my guess is he's dated a lot of women. . .and behaved the same exact way towards ALL of them (inconsistent, unreliable) - married or dating.

His behavior is a reflection of his own issues that have remained unaddressed, not yours. He's got a lifelong pattern here of inconsistency and restlessness.

"I'm getting tired of letting him live in my head rent free."

Then see him, and the situation, for what it truly is. . .and give him to boot ;-); March 23, 2017 at 5:59 PM
Anonymous said...: I so appreciated you responding to my questions. I've been reading a book that refers to exactly what you mentioned - the chemical reactions of the brain as far as love and lust are concerned. Just like a drug addiction. Very insightful. And you are spot on as far as the past behaviors predicting the future, the old, tried and true "track record" - Ha!

I think that if I were 40, I would have blown this guy away without all the mental anguish. I try to embrace the concept of the abumdance of the universe, but, at my age, it is quite difficult to find guys who aren't straight-out emotionally unavailable, life-long players, or complete emotional or physical wrecks, let alone someone with commonality. Looking at the online dating sites makes me cringe and I live in a very small town without a whole lot of "prospects."

That being said, I feel very fortunate to have had 35 great years with a fantasic guy. That should be enough to be grateful for. So many people never get that.

Thank you again for taking the time to help me sort this out and giving me a more rational perspective. You are simply fabulous!; March 25, 2017 at 2:45 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous March 25, 2:45 PM,
I'm not sure what your circumstances are or what your financial status is, however, I thought this worth mentioning as some food for thought.

After 35 years in a successful marriage -- maybe this is now your time. (i.e. without a lover or boyfriend).

Consider finding a group of women or gathering existing girlfriends and weave THEM into your life (instead of a man). Create little traditions that enable you to see each other regularly, and travel together.

Meeting once a week for dinner and a girls night out, and then traveling together once a year, once every 3 months - whatever your schedule and finances permit. And if you cannot afford to take big vacations, plan weekend getaways. Five people can split rent for a really great cabin, hotel suite, car rental, etc. quite affordably. This can even be as simple as planning a great shopping trip a 2 hours drive away that includes an overnight stay somewhere.

Not only does this practice do well for your spirit and emotional state, it also enables you to expand your social circle - and possibly meet someone while on these trips and weekend excursions ;-)

If this situation doesn't already exist for you, you can join a women's club or take some classes somewhere that would enable you to make a new circle of friends.

There's a LOT of living that can be done that's very fulfilling without a man ;-); March 27, 2017 at 9:08 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mirror,
Before I begin, I want to encourage others who make use of your time and wisdom to donate as shown in the upper right. I just did. I firmly believe that no one should have to listen to my BS without some compensation. And you are probably too far away for me to take you out for wine. :)

As for your above suggestion. I had been giving that idea a lot of thought even before your reply. You must be channeling me now.
First, if I may, let me share an observation with your readers. I had the best marriage anyone could ask for. He loved me, worked hard, traveled the world, and was an outstanding provider. He had some close friends who were work and golf related. For my part, I adored him and focused my time on making a good home and raising our kids. I had casual friends through the kids’ sports and school. We didn’t have typical couples friends to hang with. As a warning to all your female readers: No matter how terrific your husband is, DO NOT submerge yourself so totally in your marriage that you lose sight of who you are as an individual. Alas, unless you “check out” first, someday you will be either divorced or widowed. Without a strong sense of who you are apart from your marriage, you will have a much tougher time righting yourself when the stuff hits the fan.

My husband’s death was sudden. He left me very well off financially, but I spent the first year just trying to get a grip on everything. He left me with a restaurant to run and other property which demanded my immediate attention. I have a small, tight-knit family and some incredible staff (they are like family) at work. These people are responsible for shoring me up. But sadly, I don’t have any close “buddies.”

The restaurant was a blessing in disguise because, while demanding, it forced me to get up, dress up, and be among the living when all I wanted to do was hole up in pain. It does provide me with an opportunity to enlarge my social circle and after I survived the first year, I looked for opportunities to make new female friends.

I know I could plan things that don’t require tons of time or capital, but so many of the women I know are strapped for cash or are very involved with husbands, careers, and kids. I know I will need to generate more initiative and creativity in this area.

I’ve always been more comfortable around guys (can we say latent daddy issues?). I bet I haven’t had female besties since high school. I think I would be a rollicking fun gal pal, but I just haven’t located my tribe yet. Maybe like romance, I am looking for that spark or connection that signals a new potential girlfriend.

I know that clubs, activities, and classes are the go-to for meeting all sorts of new people. For some reason, that avenue just leaves me feeling “meh”. That’s a lame excuse and I guess I need to do better research to find something that appeals to me.

Just to update, I am at day 21 of NC. I have not heard from Mr. Ex. As the oxytocin from his presence drains from my system, it is easier to use that logical part of my brain to take over the emotional part. THIS IS WHY YOU GO AT LEAST 30 DAYS LADIES! If I choose to, I always have the option to shoot him a friendly text, but the desire to do so lessens all the time. There is no need to rush that. He’ll still be out there in another week, month, or year. And who knows? I’ll be in a much stronger position if he is the one to get “his bad self” together, address his issues, and initiate contact. If he never does, his loss.

Meanwhile, I am focusing on the restaurant, babysitting my first grandchild, planning a trip with my son, and “friend-spotting.”
Why doesn’t somebody start a Match-like web site to help lonely widows and divorcees find female pals? Something like eHermony or Plenty of Miss. ;-)

Thanks again for all you do!; March 29, 2017 at 8:56 PM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Mar 29, 8:56 PM,
I received your generous donation dear - thank you so very much for that kindness :-)

"As a warning to all your female readers: No matter how terrific your husband is, DO NOT submerge yourself so totally in your marriage that you lose sight of who you are as an individual."

I absolutely agree 100% with this statement. My situation was a bit different from yours as I found myself divorced. But nonetheless, I had completely been absorbed into my husband and his life and when that ended, the silence of the loneliness became almost deafening. And in my case, while he began socializing and running around town being the life of the party on weekends. . .I was at home alone renting movies, stuck in my head and my thoughts with no one to even talk to.

Soon after however, I reconnected with old friends from childhood (that I had history with and could trust and fully knew), and now many years later they are a part of my daily life. We meet regularly every Friday night for a few drinks. It's now a new tradition. And as others have sadly divorced as well, that group continues to grow. It's really nice to have the opportunity to be in their lives once again.

So ladies - stay in touch with who you are, where you come from, and what makes you happy. And surround yourself with people that support you. Do not let those ties wane, no matter how good your marriage is or how wonderful your new boyfriend is.

"But sadly, I don’t have any close “buddies.”

You can change that ;-) You can take the time to reconnect with those from your past, and you can join women's groups or take classes and meet new people and make new friends. (Lots of women attend those painting and wine classes by the way, and the Red Hat Society is also a pretty popular way for women to connect with one another.) You can also weave your "family" at work into some very meaningful friendships as well.

"I know I could plan things that don’t require tons of time or capital, but so many of the women I know are strapped for cash or are very involved with husbands, careers, and kids. I know I will need to generate more initiative and creativity in this area."

You need to find like minded individuals that have experienced similar in their lives and that are in the same mindset (i.e. ready to be "selfish" for once and make it all about them lol ;-)

One other thing that just came to mind - Meetup.com. It's not a dating site, it's literally what it says it is, meetup. People go to the site and create groups. People join a group, and then that group meets up for whatever floats their boat. Dinners, movies, travel together, sporting events, book clubs. . .whatever their common interest may be is generally what the meet ups are created around.

Cont. . .; March 30, 2017 at 8:57 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: "I’ve always been more comfortable around guys (can we say latent daddy issues?)."

LOL - same here. Not sure about the daddy issues, maybe I have them, although I will say my father and mother are still together and my dad is a fantastic guy. The group I've reconnected with from childhood are mostly men. I have a summer camp and they've been incredibly helpful to me there, and we've had many great time there and created a lot of new memories. The 4th of July at camp is another new tradition we've all established together. And the male friends that are married or have remarried - their wives are now a part of all of that as well.

"As the oxytocin from his presence drains from my system, it is easier to use that logical part of my brain to take over the emotional part. THIS IS WHY YOU GO AT LEAST 30 DAYS LADIES!"

Exactly!

"Meanwhile, I am focusing on the restaurant, babysitting my first grandchild, planning a trip with my son, and “friend-spotting.”

I just want you to know that, over the years I've heard literally thousands of stories shared, experiences shared, inner thoughts, etc. and I just want you to know that after reading this latest update from you. . .I STRONGLY feel you're poised for success in what you'd like to achieve here.

Your attitude is going to see to it that you make it. You're going to be fine and you're going to eventually create some meaningful friendships, old or new, that are going to become a regular part of your existence. Rome wasn't built in a day. Took me probably about 4 years. . .but with the right attitude, a strong sense of self, and some grit and determination - we can literally freely will the existence we desire to manifest. I firmly believe that. I've seen it happen. I've done it myself.

Free will is the one thing that separates us from every other living creature on this earth. It's a gift ;-) And it's there for the taking.

I haven't used this myself but - check out Meetup.com. Maybe even consider creating a group yourself and then patiently wait to see what happens. Or search for a female travel group possibly. You never know. But I DO KNOW that when you take steps like that to help yourself, the universe has a funny way of rewarding those efforts by delivering surprising results back to you ;-)

You're a strong woman, I can tell. Ladies - pay close attention to the attitude here - the mindset. It can literally make or break your success in life. The right attitude can get you a hell of a lot further in life than any other skill set you may have.

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right.” ~ Henry Ford; March 30, 2017 at 8:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror & Everyone,

I thought I would share a quick tidbit about my friend's experience with her guy (now ex) because I think it backs up what Mirror says about men in general and how the man's level of interest really determines a possibility of reigniting a relationship.

My friend was dating her man for a while and called it off in college. She told me she never had any contact with/from him other than maybe a Christmas card from him which she always responded to but never let it grow beyond formality. Finally, after 30 years, he built up the gumption to contact her directly outside of the holidays.

He told her that she was the nicest girlfriend he ever had and that after they broke up he went through a series of woman who did not treat him right, making him regret letting her walk out that door.

In conclusion, she rebuffed this man and as a result he could not stop thinking about her and always compared his other dates to her. She never burned any bridges but the fact that she made herself somewhat unavailable afterwards probably heightened his attraction for her and that attraction had a chance to grow over the course of time.

Essentially, Mirror is right to say people do come back after breakups even years later so long as there is time and distance and the man's level of interest is there. This man held out for years after she dumped him and while he still moved on and dated others, SHE was always at the back of his mind.; July 30, 2018 at 1:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Is it possible to undump a guy? Any tips?
Thanks!; April 25, 2019 at 9:20 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous Apr 25, 9:20 AM,
"Is it possible to undump a guy?"

I don't know about that one. Because here's the thing -- there's a reason you dumped him.

Unless the reasons you dumped him have changed, it'll be nothing but more of the same so what's the point, ya' know? You could waste some of the best years of your life trying to change a man to suit your needs, only to finally realize he was never the man that was going to fulfill them in the first place.

I'd think long and hard about that before even deciding if I wanted him back.

Because in order to ask him back, you're going to have to give up your power to do so. And that will obviously place you into the lesser position and make him think he's got an unbreakable hold on you (and he could abuse that or take advantage of it, depending on what type of guy he is). It's a risky situation.

When this stuff happens, I think it's best to let time do it's thing.

And by that I mean time for you to decide if you really have genuine feelings for the man (or are you simply feeling jealous seeing him move on with his life so you suddenly want him back). Time for you to decide if this is a man that's even capable or willing to fulfill your needs. Time to see if he's doing any thinking about the situation himself and making any positive changes in his life, etc.

Time is one of the greatest healers in the universe. Give it room to work and it just might surprise you ;-); April 26, 2019 at 8:45 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

Thank you for your response. It’ll take some courage on my part to let time take over but what you said gave me some hope for healing.

As for some latent jealousy I probably do have some of that and I also have some fear that I made a big mistake and I won’t get to see his plucky self again. Think I could go the friend route?

Also, I always have trouble posting here because of my cell so if you received an earlier notification about this then my apologies.; April 26, 2019 at 9:57 AM
The Mirror of Aphrodite said...: @Anonymous April 26, 9:57AM,
"As for some latent jealousy I probably do have some of that and I also have some fear that I made a big mistake."

NEVER - and I mean never - let negative feelings like jealously and fear steer the wheel in your life and become the basis for decisions you make.

That's the point I was trying to make earlier. Been there, done that. And it pretty much took me from the fire and placed me right into the frying pan.

It's best to let your emotions settle before making ANY decisions at all. Otherwise, you risk letting negative emotions (fear/jealousy) become the basis for what could potentially become really bad decisions for you.

Again, there's a reason you broke up with him. So don't overlook that or dismiss it.

"Think I could go the friend route?"

Nope. And here's why. In order to REALLY pull off the whole "friend" thing successfully. . .BOTH parties (this means you, too) MUST NOT possess any secret feelings of wanting "more."

And in your case, we already know you secretly want more. And for this reason, the whole friend thing will not work. Not only that, it'd be incredibly unhealthy for you emotionally and psychologically. You'd be willingly placing yourself into a situation where you'd have hidden ulterior motives and anything this man does or doesn't do, and says or doesn't say -- could potentially hurt you. (Because you want more and he'll be doing his own thing, and you'll be forced to watch that from close by which will be painful.)

In all my years on this beautiful earth, I've never really witnessed a successful example of two people demoting themselves from lovers to friends. Never. One of the two always gives themselves away and acts a fool LOL ;-)

So don't let that be you.

Instead, have confidence in your decision. Have confidence in yourself. And have faith that if things are meant to be, they will be. You don't have to figure out HOW that will happen. If it's meant to be, the universe will arrange things in your life to lead you there without you even realizing it.

Right now you're simply experiencing self-doubt. It's a very normal thing to experience after a painful decision. So my suggestion would be to let those feelings pass and stand strong with confidence in your decision for right now.

You know what's best for you. You know what you need from a mate to make you happy. And you made this decision for a reason.

So don't second guess it right now simply because you're experiencing some very normal negative feelings following that painful decision.

Again, if it's meant to be -- the universe will see to it that it manifests.

Have faith that you made the right decision for yourself and keep moving forward with your life. Set a goal of 30 days for yourself before you're going to make a decision at all about this.

If those 30 days pass and you feel strongly that you've made a mistake -- THEN you can revisit the whole thing at that time. And if that happens, when it comes time to communicate, it'll be best for you and him both because again. . .time heals all wounds.

And that time for you both apart to think and experience and process your emotions will do you good - both of you - when it comes to clear, honest, open communication without the influence of emotions interfering in it :-); April 26, 2019 at 1:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mirror,

Thank you for helping me weigh my options and telling it to me like it is. I guess I needed the reminder because while the negative feelings are very normal as you said, they hurt. I’ll set the 30 day timer and make sure I take extra care of myself and see what unfolds for me since that seems like the safest bet. :) Thanks again!; April 28, 2019 at 10:43 AM
Tiff720 said...: Hi Mirror,

I'm hoping I could get your thoughts about my current situation.
Background: I met my BF who is a single father to a pre-teen at the time in March 2019. I moved into my condo in April 2019. By Jul 2019, I found out I was pregnant. Pregnancy was not easy for me. I struggled with serve hip pain and carpal tunnel. I couldn't open a bag of chips. I met his daughter quickly while assisting him with his homework. he was in school at the time. During that quick introduction, I recall not good energy from her. Her dad told me she had been through alot. She had lost her bio mom at 2 yo. then her stepmother and her dad divorced after 10 years and walked away from his daughter. she also lost two grandparents and from what my BF says, her bio mom people never liked her stepmother and made certain that she knew that that was a her stepmother. my BF told me that his daughter and her stepmother relationship was toxic. the home environment was toxic. His daughter behavior and attitude is down right awful! She is a liar and untrustworthy. My BF tells me all the time that he doesn't trust her and that he created a monster. My BF says he raised an ***hole! Even there relationship is toxic. His mother doesn't want to be bothered with her, her bio grandfather relationship is strained. She uses her dad's stepmother for her personal gain. the only grandparent she is with constant is her bio mom's mom.

continue..; June 9, 2021 at 8:19 PM
Tiff720 said...: Fast forward, now the end of October 2019 and my BF suggested I move in with him and his daughter since I was struggling with my pregnancy.I thought it would be a good idea to combine household's. I ignored all of the red flags. I was skeptical at first because they were not the cleanest.Not good dog owners; much neglect. I mean the dog would crap on the livingroom floor or the family room floor and they'll just leave it sitting until they were ready to pick it up. There would be a foul stench that they have become accustomed to. OMG that was disgusting! yet I managed to let them know that that was haphazard. So BF would mop the floors to hide the smell for only a little while. My BF had to throw out his couch because the dog pissed and poo and ripped it apart. the dog is not trained. his daughter room had a horrible stench and there was trash,dirty dishes, dirty clothes,period stain clothes, bed was Bloody murdered. it looked liked a horrible crime scene. I just didn't understand! When she would used the bathroom and if she was on her cycle, she would leave blood on the toilet seat. I was told by my BF mom that she had talked to her about it. Well apparently nothing changed with that convo. However, when I moved in and she did that, I immediately woke her out of her sleep and talked to her. I told her ladies check themselves after using the bathroom. If they created an oops on the toilet we wipe it up. Then there was a time she put a used sanitary napkin in the kitchen garbage all exposed. Im pregnant and saw it and almost puked. I said disgusting outlook. So her father asked her why she did it, she lies and says it wasn't hers. Then he tells her don't do it again. so i tried to show her how to properly dispose the sanitary napkins. My BF said he tried talking to her about keeping her room clean and he'll even clean it and to no good turnout. then he tells me that she's just a kid. So I decided to help her clean her room one day and I bought some new bedding and a rug to make it girly and some air freshener. Oops that didn't last very long. I didnt understand. so I ended up going into preterm labor the day after Christmas. I gave birth to our daughter 7 weeks early. my sweet little baby was rushed to nicu immediately because she was born with an umbilical cord hernia. then two days later I was rushed to the hospital because I had developed postpartum eclampsia. I was hospitalized for about a week. My BF was right by my side. he's not a bad guy, he is just clueless, lazy and stuck in his ways.
continue...; June 9, 2021 at 8:19 PM
Tiff720 said...: our sweet little baby spent 79 days in nicu. I spent my entire maternity leave going back and forth to the NICU. There would be times that after leaving nicu and getting into his truck I'll just burst into tears. All I'll get from him was could you please stop crying. Or when we get to the house I would run to the bathroom full tears crying. Not once did he console me, comfort me. I should've known that was a red flag but I wasnt thinking about that. this was a painful experience for me. I dont wish this on any woman. then we were able to bring baby home the same day our state went on lockdown. now I'm back to work yet working from home. my bf house was not a pleasant environment to stay and too small for us all so we decided to move into a much bigger place. now we're living in this new place, at first I didn't realize it that they were letting their dog go to the bathroom in the basement and just leave it sitting there oh I became livid. I was so disgusted. I told them both that I want my security deposit back, dog owners pick up after there animals and they don't go to the bathroom in the house. and when it's time to turn on the heat I don't want that god awful smell coming through our vents. plus we live in an upscale neighborhood and I think the landlord would be very upset if they knew there was a dog in this house and the house was being neglected. I told them that I talked about people like them. yall don't deserve to live in a nice environment and house. so they cleaned up their animal mess. now they started letting the dog go to the bathroom outside. here we go again now they letting the dog poo on the deck. oh no! wait a minute. I don't want to open the windows/blinds to see dog crap disgusting! I would have to ask EVERYDAY about them picking up after there dog.This was becoming tiring. Then my BF would get irritated at me for always asking for them to pick up there dog mess. say that I want them to clean it up when I want them to. Saying that I am trying to control him. Not when they get ready to do it.I just never understood why have a dog and not want to be a proper owner. they don't walk the dog, they don't groom the dog. his daughter keeps the dog in her room, the dog has pissed on her bed. That mattress hasn't been replaced either so of course you know her room smells. I haven't seen her wash her clothes weekly. Her responsibility is to clean the main bathroom since that's what she uses but she hasn't done so. So I told my BF if he could keep the bathroom clean.My mom and his mom saw first hand the lack of help im getting around the house while im nursing and working from home. I refused for the dog to come into the areas of the house where my BF and I and baby will be.
Continue 3...; June 9, 2021 at 8:20 PM
Tiff720 said...: now his daughter is 15. since we've been living in this house. it hasn't been no walk in the park. I am constantly asking for them to pick something up, clean something up. common sense that I shouldn't have to. then there has always been tension between his daughter and I. for one I am not trying to be her mother. I should be the fun person but we never got to that. she is very disrespectful! My BF mother told him that his daughter needs some chores and responsibilities. I agreed. I never knew of a 15 yo that did not have any chores or responsibilities. she's messing up badly in school. her dad tells her that he hates school so what do you think she's going to do. duh!! he doesn't believe that his words affect his daughter mind you again they have a very toxic relationship. we've come to disagreements a few times but this last time I believe broke it for me. I was so tired of constantly asking/requesting to pickup cleanup after themselves when we have a now toddler that likes to put things in her mouth and the constant disrespect from the both of them. I don't know the things my bf is telling his daughter. I have to go to him if i want his her to do something. However there would be times, I didn't awake him so I'll just clean it up and tell him about it later. we got into an argument something that was not my intent but his daughter started mumbling under her breath so that I could hear her saying *** me etc. I grabbed my baby and told her I don't want my baby to be subjected to this type of behavior and you better be lucky I haven't yoked your ass up. then My BF jumps in and tells me that that is his child. you don't say that to my kid. we living in a house divided. this was/is not my type of home environment I want to raise our daughter in. so the house was tense environment for days. i have decided to move out. my soul is not feeling good. my BF says his daughter was wrong. I suggested family counseling and of course he feels that wont work. I never got an apology from his daughter.My bf never has my back when it comes to his daughter and I. I get it that's his daughter. he created the division in the house. I have to come to him about his daughter. I mean common sense that if you don't want me saying anything to you then clean it up. that's all I ask. but that's not how it went.
Continue 4...; June 9, 2021 at 8:20 PM
Tiff720 said...: I also started to noticed that my BF isn't being engaged in my life. it's always "I" with him and not "we". I started to feel like an after thought. I've mentioned to him few times that I liked to be asked to go with, random kisses/hugs, hanging out/running errands together. Doing things that couples do. I understand we're in this pandemic. We don't have to stop anywhere, but let just go for a ride. To get out of the house. Nope, he sees that as an issue.he's response would be like you showing me how much incompatible we are. I told him then I don't think that im the woman for you. awkward silence. then he will say that he wants our daughter to be in a two parent home. we had bought some things together in this house. we've had other disagreements and arguments. he showed me his anger issues. he would throw things or attempt to destroy something that he probably bought. he would curse and yell at me. oh no! I don't get down like that. we should be able to have mature grown up conversations. i have told him repeatedly to not talk to me that way, that i promised myself to never let a man talk to me that way again.we're both in our 40s.

I moved out with our daughter. Everyday hasn't been easy. It's been very emotional for me. We're still both trying to adjust. I find myself always crying feeling guilty for moving, separating my "family ", breaking his heart. I'm feeling so sad that he didn't even attempt to fight for our relationship and me staying. Plus, with the toxicity between his daughter and I, I honestly don't see it getting any better had I decided to stay. I will never come before his daughter. And me constantly feeling like I have to beg to be praised, compliments, ask me how I'm doing or feeling or if I need something makes me feel like he doesn't want me. I felt like I was a single mother living in a house divided yet while he did the bare minimum. I wasn't happy with him and our relationship and I feel that I need to focus on myself and our daughter and really find my happiness and peace. Now when he came to visit our daughter, I was so emotional and tears roll down my face. Now he wants to be engaged with her get down on her level to play with her. He wasn't doing that while we were living together. Then he asks me why I'm crying. I told him that I needed to remove myself. I asked him what happened between us and our relationship. It had shifted. He said that it probably shifted when I called his daughter a monster to her face. I was hurt because he has called her way worse things to her face.he told me that I am the outsider! He's the parent so he can do that. I help pay the bills in this house, grocery shop, cook and clean ans yet I'm an outsider. That furthered my unhappiness with us. im being blamed for everything, I'm not feeling loved. I'm feeling like we're just there coexisting. That's hurtful! I'm know relationships go through its rough patches but I felt like it was just me putting effort in to the relationship. I never wanted to break his heart or trust even though he hurt me betrayed and hurt me for so long. I feel bad for leaving. I'm scared! Being a single mom this is not what I desired to ever be. He told me that it was a mistake dating me. But he doesn't regret our daughter. Any tips for getting over this guilt? Any tips to start healing? I need something; June 9, 2021 at 8:20 PM

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