"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Why You Should Not Date Insecure Men

I’m pretty sure that when you set out to start dating, you didn’t intend to date insecure men. But the reality is that’s exactly what ends up happening, and most times, without you even realizing it.

Insecure men are actually quite adept at attracting the perfect “victim.” And much of this goes back to the theory of the Law of Attraction which states that “like attracts like.” In otherwords, similar energies are, by nature, naturally attracted and drawn to one another. Which means that your insecurities, can actually be drawing insecure men back towards you.

An insecure man needs constant reassurance and validation of himself as a man, and his ideal woman is also insecure and feels “unworthy” of love and therefore, is eagerly willing to constantly sacrifice herself and her needs, thus directing all of her energy towards being his biggest “cheerleader” in life, and completely losing herself and her own identity in the process.

The Negative Cycle of Co-Dependency



This exchange of energy leads to a co-dependent relationship in that, he’s dependent on receiving the constant reassurance and support he needs from others (her) to keep himself feeling like a man, and she’s dependent on receiving the validation she needs to feel “worthy” as a woman by constantly proving herself “useful” to him.

But there’s a problem. This is one-sided and not equal. The man is “receiving” on a constant basis, while the woman is “giving” on a constant basis. (And for any men reading here, this piece is obviously geared towards women. But understand that much of this works both ways and the roles can actually be reversed.)

It becomes a feeding frenzy of negativity. A theme of “reassurance and acceptance” starts to play out. He needs to feel reassured and validated as a man, and she needs to feel accepted and worthy as a woman.

Are You the Perfect Victim?


Insecure men generally tend to seek out women who are an empty vessel. Meaning, similar to a blank slate, much like a brand new computer on the assembly line that’s just been pieced together, with an empty hard drive that’s ready to be programmed. Insecure men do not want to be challenged or questioned and they will eventually flee from strong women who are able to assert themselves. (Hint, hint ladies – “the disappearing man.”)

Insecure men prefer a mild woman who will worship them, not question them, not challenge them, and instead bend over backwards to please them. They prefer a woman who is very pliable and one who makes herself available all the time, forcing her to place her own life aside. (One of the reasons why very young, naïve women are highly sought after by men. It’s not always about sex.) Having that type of a woman makes an insecure man feel good about himself and more like a man.

Insecure men are an emotional wreck internally and to hide that from the rest of the world, they actually become very adept at overcompensating by creating a very refined external image that makes others believe they’re actually very successful in life.

What an Insecure Man Looks Like


Insecure Men Tend to be Loud, Boisterous Frat Boy Types

Insecure men are the guys that are the loudest in the room, the guys that are the life of the party. They are the guys that brag a lot about the successes they’ve had (20 years ago as a high school football player). They are the guys that, when challenged by other men verbally for their offensive behavior, either run away or throw a punch instead of providing a smart intellectual rebuttal (because they have no good excuse for their behavior). These types are usually found wearing Affliction Clothing line tees and True Religion jeans with heavy white stitching, sporting a few tattoos, dig MMA, have a close buzz cut on the sides, treat dating like a sport and have dined on a plethora of steroids. (This explains why they’re always exhibiting hostility and are usually “top heavy” with giant arms and a big upper body that is teetering on skinny legs).

Insecure Men Tend to be all Talk and No Action

Insecure men are the guys who are all talk and no action. The ones who have a tendency to constantly “school” others in a “know it all” fashion in an attempt to fool them into believing they have valuable knowledge to share with the world - while they produce no actual viable results whatsoever.

Insecure Men Tend to Exaggerate Stories

Insecure men are the guys at the bar telling exaggerated stories of sexual conquests with the ladies, yet are never actually spotted with a living, breathing one by their side. Insecure guys tend to have a long, long line of “crazy” exes in their past (not just one or two who truly may have been emotionally off balance), yet fail to realize the women weren’t all crazy and instead, were simply women who called him on his crap all the time.

Insecure Men Tend to Exhibit Offensive, Obnoxious Behavior – Towards Everyone

Insecure men are the guys that are quick to point out the flaws in others. They are the guys that drop small “negs” (negative comments) all the time directed at those around them, in order to bring insecurities in others to the surface, so as to misdirect anyone from noticing their own flaws and insecurities.

Insecure Men Market Themselves Well

They are the guys that have learned to “sell” themselves quite well on the surface, when in reality, they have no job, no car, are skipping out on child support payments and financial debts and are living in their parents basement.

Insecure Men Are Narcissistic Attention Whores

Insecure men are the guys that go around approaching women in nightclubs that are complete strangers and asking to take a selfie with them, and then publishing these photos to social media sites, thereby making them look like they’re in demand with the opposite sex. Their Facebook page is a constant stream of party boy selfies with the occasional self-deprecating post geared towards garnering a ton of compliments for themselves. As a matter of fact, I saw one recently that read, “I’m going to quit being such a man whore and start looking for a good woman.” (As if good women are going to jump at the chance to be with an old man whore.) And to my surprise, that comment garnered a lot of “Awe, you’re not that bad of a guy” responses from women. (Clue: If he’s telling you he’s a man whore – then that’s exactly what he is.)

Insecure Men Can Tend to Look Like the Cat That Ate the Canary

Can you say “smug?” Yea, insecure men create the impression that they’re very self-assured.

If you’re looking at a guy and he’s constantly sporting a “Billy Idol Smile” or a silly Cheshire Grin, and you get the feeling he knows something you don’t know – guess what?

He DOES know something you don’t know. . .he knows that you’re the canary and he’s about to swallow you whole.

Insecure Men Pull Stunts to Create False Appearances

They are the guys that, when on a date with them, leave their phone out on the table and are all too proud to openly inform you (and constantly remind you) that women all over the place are chasing them down. Yet they fail to mention that all the texts and calls they’re receiving are actually responses to the lame “hey” text they sent to every single woman in their Facebook account and on their phone 15 minutes before meeting up with you - so they can receive all these responses in front of you, thereby creating the impression that they’re in demand with the opposite sex.

Insecure Men Are Lazy, Lack Ambition and Seek a Free Ride – Single Mothers Beware

Insecure men are completely okay with riding someone else’s coat tails to the top, namely a woman’s. If there’s not a financially eligible woman to latch onto, they’re usually okay with a mediocre “status quo” for themselves (such as living in their parent’s basement). And when I say financially eligible woman, I’m not talking about a woman earning $100k a year. A lot of times, a single mother receiving financial assistance, child support and food stamps can fall victim to an insecure man because she’s got a home, food on the table, a reliable income stream, and an already existing living situation that the man simply slides right into.

Insecure Men are Flaky, Inconsistent and Full of Empty Promises

He’ll keep you floating on empty promises that he never fulfills. He’ll be like a magician who disappears and reappears at will. He’ll stand you up or cancel last minute for what he considers honest to goodness dates, which are most times actually sofa dates. And he’ll make good use of the learning theory called the random interval reward system to keep you hooked:


Insecure Men Cheat and are Opportunists in Life

The needs of insecure men are so hefty that many times, almost all the time, you’ll find that they’re also cheaters (insecurity and cheating tend to go hand in hand). Because the needs of insecure individuals are so very hefty, many times it takes more than one individual to fulfill them. Even if they weren’t outright seeking to fulfill those needs from several others, rest assured that when the opportunity presents itself - they will take the offer up. This is the reason that a lot of the cheating that occurs with insecure individuals is actually “opportunistic” in nature. When someone has cheated on you and you ask them why, if you hear responses along the lines of, “I didn’t mean to hurt you, it just happened” – then you know you’ve been bitten by an insecure man who took action on an opportunity that presented itself.

Insecure Men Move FAST

In the beginning, they lay it on thick and heavy, telling you everything they think you want to hear, zipping you into the bedroom and a relationship with lightning speed. (Warning: Moving too fast is a big red flag.) They’re pulling a number on you and the speed at which it takes place is mean to disorient and distract you from their real motivation – which is to use you and control you until they decide they’re done with you. They're not good at consistency though or maintaining any of this initial "flowery" behavior, which is why it's important to make a man repeatedly prove himself to you for a consistent length of time. The flakes won't be able to keep it up and they'll soon run once they realize they'll have to work to win you over.

Insecure Men are Emotionally Unavailable and Have a Shallow Orientation

Their inner world will rarely, if ever, be anything you get a peek into. They’re usually immature jokesters who won’t “get real” with you and they’re not interested in hugs and kisses, long talks, affectionate caresses or fulfilling your emotional needs. Being with them feels more like having a child to take care of instead of an intimate lover who’s an equal to you. Their primary goal is to get their own needs met, much like a child, which usually has a shallow orientation focused on nothing but primal, sexual needs and survival – and nothing deeper than that.

Insecure Men are Adept at Using Guilt to Their Advantage

Insecure men are never responsible and never accountable. And if you attempt to make them become that, they are not above spinning that back onto you somehow and making you feel guilty for asking too much of them, and not accepting them for who they are and what they have to offer – which is nobody with nothing to offer other than a mere presence in your life.

The Words and Actions of Insecure Men Do Not Align

Insecure men are men who say one thing – yet do something else completely different. Their words never align with their actions and in essence, they’re full of crap and constantly spewing a lot of BS at you.

The Manipulation


Insecure men (and women) are incredibly manipulative. They’re very adept at getting their negative needs fulfilled by others (because they can’t provide that for themselves). One can almost view them as the vampires of society in that they tend to suck the life out of those they’re partnered with via the hefty need for constant reassurance they have. “Maintaining “ them becomes a full time job.

An insecure man is not much of a provider, he’s more of a taker (the vampire) and contributing in any way other than his mere presence in your life is really not going to be his thing. He may work a mediocre job for a while at your behest, but eventually he’ll have a personality clash with someone at work or he’ll get a hang nail or some other ailment that he’ll use as an excuse to get the hell outta’ there - and then he’ll blame you for the entire debacle.

That reminds me of a National Lampoon movie with Chevy Chase and Randy Quaid, who played Cousin Eddie. Cousin Eddie is an insecure guy, constantly attempting to impress Clark and overcompensate in ways that ultimately make him appear as a buffoon. When asked about his job, his wife (the ever willing cheerleader in his life) does damage control and tells people, “He’s holding out for a management position.” And then it’s pointed out that he’s been holding out - for 7 years.

The End Result of Dating an Insecure Man


Insecure men won’t lift you up – they will only ever control you and pull you down, down, down with them – to their level. You can tread water for a while, but eventually, you’ll exhaust yourself, you’ll never be able to get ahead, you will feel like a 200 pound ball and chain has been tied around your ankle that you just can’t shake, and you’ll realize that it’s either sink or swim. You’re either going to go down with them, or you’re going to have to get away from them.

And mind you, if you don’t leave them first, nine times out of ten, they will eventually leave you. . .and most likely - in a lurch - and much worse off than when they met you.

After all, they are the vampires of the world and once they drain you of your life’s blood, much like a vampire, they have no use for the empty carcass that’s left behind. They are relationship jumpers who consider 3 and 5 month flings honest to goodness real relationships. And if they’re married, guess what? Most times, they’re still conducting those 3 to 5 month flings on the side anyways, or taking up the various one time opportunities that float their way. And beauty isn’t what it’s about when that happens, it’s about their insecurity.

Ever notice how many times the “other woman” in a situation like that is always a hot mess of sorts, and you wonder why the heck the man risked a relationship with a great, beautiful woman for – a bar fly that’s akin to a doorknob who’s permitted everyone in the building to take a turn? It’s rarely the Pamela Anderson’s or Scarlett Johansson’s of the world that play that role. . .it’s always some unassuming, non-descript woman that was like a scrap left on the floor for bottom feeders that leaves you shaking your head asking, “Why, why?”

The reason why is because the woman was pliable and therefore - made a good victim - and fulfilled a shallow need at the time. Remember, insecure individuals are very “needy” (man or woman).

Loyalty is not their thing and they will start to be dismissive of you entirely (not that they were ever really that attentive to you and your needs in the first place), eventually disposing of you when another more promising opportunity (victim) comes along. And if you have a child or children with them, it won’t matter. They’ll easily walk away from you and their own blood without pause, and in keeping with their status quo, will bail on child support, visitation, responsibility, accountability, and/or any financial debt residue left behind.

They will skip into the next relationship as if the one with you never even happened – and you will fast become one of the “crazy” exes he’s telling stories about and receiving sympathy from others over (like he once did with you). And don’t be surprised if, when telling others these stories, he begins to exaggerate it and starts to “project” onto you the very sin that he, himself, committed – cheating.

If you meet a guy who claims that every single ex (not just one or two) he’s ever had has cheated on him, you need to question why that is. He’s either an incredibly lousy, neglectful, apathetic mate – or he’s lying.

Are You Dating an Insecure Man?


In the beginning insecure men come on fast and strong, spreading compliments thick, for about the first 3 or 4 dates and professing to love you by the fifth. They talk strongly and often about a future with you very early on, too early, and tend to fast track you into the bedroom by doing so (because they know women, by nature, bond with men through physical contact).

Insecure men pick their victims well, identify their needs immediately, and then start to fulfill those needs fast – only to yank that all away from you and completely turn the tables once they’ve hooked you.

All those compliments, promises, talk of future, exchanges of love and hot sex. . .yea, that was the bait on the end of the hook. And once you bite, they know they have a winner and they pull back hard on the line, quickly and without warning, reeling you out of the lovely pond you were just swimming in - and onto very dry land where they will watch you eventually suffocate and die without remorse.

If you’re dating a man that’s leaving you feeling completely exhausted, totally emotionally drained, financially wiped out, incredibly neglected, abused and taken advantage of, entirely confused, suspicious and constantly questioning and second guessing yourself – you, my dear, are most likely dating an insecure man.

Get rid of him – NOW.

Protect Yourself



If you want to protect yourself from falling prey to another one in the future (hey, we’ve all been there) - work on yourself. Change always starts with YOU.

Behavior that is self-destructive need no longer take place. Hookups and one night stands, settling for less than you deserve, not demanding traditional first dates where you’re treated like a lady, drinking too much, giving men who treat you poorly a second chance or the benefit of doubt, not carrying yourself with dignity, behaving desperately – no more. It’s a fallacy planted into women’s heads by society that if you smile, sacrifice yourself constantly and “do, do, do” for others like a household appliance. . .you will receive love in return. So forget about that because the only thing that will get you these days is victimized and taken for granted.

Ladies, there are good men still out there, trust me on this. Yes, the “gentlemen” is nearing extinction and entering the realms of the dinosaur, however, they do still exist. And if you work on yourself and participate in things that actually build your confidence, rather than take part in self-destructive behavior that actually chips away at it– you will find that you are no longer attracted to insecure men, you will develop a radar that can see them coming a mile away, and good men will admire your strength, independence and strong will. . .and will begin to enter your life.

If you’re not ready and haven’t done the work, you won’t recognize them, you’ll pass them over, you’ll experience fear and you’ll confuse the “high” of sexual attraction with real emotion and love. If you have done the work, and you know your value and begin to understand what it is that you truly need from a man to be happy – then you can’t miss them.

If you’ve done the work, insecure men will no longer be drawn to you. Instead, they’ll sense immediately that you wouldn’t make an ideal victim - and they’ll quickly flee from you without explanation.

Seriously ladies, be thankful for all the disappearing men in your life - they actually saved you a lot of grief.

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414 Comments:

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The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
"what happened to being a self sufficient man and acquiring things for yourself"

LOL, well - you'd have to ask them about that. But I think it's apparent to a lot of women these days that men, not all men mind you, but men in general are back sliding on us somehow. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of strong, independent young and older men out there. I know quite a few myself and I admire that about them. But then you have those. . .well, you know. . .the one's that can't stand on their own two feet yet. Or the Peter Pan's of the world that simply do not want to grow up. This will probably always be the case - just as there are differences much the same in many women, young and old.

"I get some guys are trying to save money or whatever but by 30 something I think a man should be somewhat established with his own place it doesn't have to be a mansion but something that he can at least call his own."

Well you know, it's funny. The more I'm thinking about this based on my own experience I have noticed in the past that men, as they say, do mature more slowly than women on an emotional level in general. And I noticed that a lot of my male friends. . .most really didn't settle down till after 35. And the ones that settled down sooner - are mostly divorced now.

I'm not sure what that means, but it popped into my head and I felt compelled to mention it so - there it is LOL.

These days, women are the #1 home buyers, and they're also the #1 car buyers too I believe. Single women now represent about 21 - 23% of all home buyers. It is what it is apparently.

"would you ever accept this situation?"

Nope. I own my own home and truth be told - I'd feel very foolish going over to some dude's apartment to hang out with him and his "roomies." Something about that would feel unnatural to me at this stage of my life. It has too much of a frat house ring to it for me.

Maybe if like one was a writer, and one was a member of the symphony and one was a scientist - and all three were very intellectual, solid dudes LOL. But if I'm walking into a situation full of video games, beer pong, and pot bongs. . .umm, no LOL.

Gem50 said...

Hahaha... "Maybe if one was a writer, and one was a member of the symphony and one was a scientist...."

That made me laugh out loud!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 29, 3:50 PM,
"He never talked at all about family or friends. Is this normal? Wouldn’t a guy mention his family/friend names once in a while?"

Yea - unless he's married, or in a relationship :-(

When people are hiding things or rather - not being incredibly forthcoming - it's a red flag. Especially after a year. Long distance or not, after one year of getting to know one another, these things should have organically worked their way into conversation by now.

"Said he was married and only looking for FWB, he could not host at his place and we had to be “discreet”."

Bingo :-(

"what do you think happened here?"

He's a married man that's out to use women sexually, and he'll say whatever he has to in order to accomplish that unfortunately.

"I feel completely devastated and hurt."

I understand. And to help you and keep this from happening to you again, I'd like to point out some red flags. So that in the future, rather than dismiss them or overlook them by giving a stranger the benefit of doubt. . .if you notice things like this - do NOT proceed. Instead, pull back a bit.

Things like this are red flags, "At the beginning he was looking to “text or email.” If someone is truly interested in getting to know another human being, they won't reduce their opportunities to do so down to text and email only. Instead, they'll pick up the phone and call, or better yet, make it a priority to see you.

"Texting pattern was fairly consistently two days” on” and then two days “off”."

While this doesn't seem unnatural on it's own, when that pattern NEVER changes, and it's combined with other odd behavior such as "He never talked at all about family or friends" - somethings up. And if you combine that with this "He kept saying “I love you” - it signals something's "off" a bit. Because while you can develop a deep affection for someone, to truly be in love with them, you have to love them warts and all. And if you've only ever spent 2 days with the individual face to face. . .how can you truly know everything about them? It's really not possible.

Then on top of all that comes "his disappearing acts and no explanations" - which are another red flag. When a man's words and actions do NOT align, something is not right. If a man says he's loves you, but then takes the action of disappearing at will whenever he pleases. . .that behavior is not in line with someone who truly cares. Because if the individual truly cared, or loved as they said they did - they would not treat their significant other disrespectfully like that.

Don't be upset over this - be THANKFUL. This man has been lying since day one. Be glad you caught him and beat him at his own game eventually. Because had that not happened, you could've wasted years of your life investing into a lie. So take something positive from it - a valuable life lesson - and be very thankful because this is actually a blessing in disguise. It may not feel that way right now, but someday I think you'll be thankful.

piscesgirl said...

"Maybe if one was a writer, and one was a member of the symphony and one was a scientist...."LOLL this made me laugh out loud too! thanks Mirror <3 and yes I agree entirely I feel foolish as well when I walk into a ''frat house'' type setting like that so I don't think I can accept this sort of situation for myself again. You also made a good point I too have also noticed that the ones who settled younger are getting divorced and it makes it harder as I get older because the crop I have to choose from mostly has baggage-ie. they've been made bitter because of their ex's or they have a kid or two or a lot of debt etc. There don't seem to be many older men that im finding who are mature and really ready to settle down and don't have any baggage. And then there are the ones who may not have much baggage but just seem to wanna live that bachelor life forever. The last guy I was seeing wanted to drink and party and take trips to Mexico with guy friends all the time and he was 35! like grow up already..what's with that!? He justified it by saying his job was highly demanding and stressful so he needed to do those things to keep his sanity. I know his parents were also pressuring him to settle down and give them a grandchild and I think that a strong part of him really wanted that life-a wife and a family and that feeling of love and warmth that comes with that. Its not like their best guy friends can give them yet but their friends seem to be more important than a woman -a woman who can cook for them and give them babies down the road and unconditional love and support. But they just aren't willing or ready to give up that other lifestyle. I noticed the successful ones with good jobs who make pretty decent money seem to be the most wild and crazy sexually and otherwise! they really go wild and let loose outside of their 9-5. I think they are also terrified of commitment because it means a loss of freedom and that scares many men(or grown boys I should say) or they are still momma's boys and their mommy still babies them so all they are missing from a woman is sex which is easily and readily available. It makes sense why there are so many woman like me who have everything going for us but cant seem to find a man on our level..very frustrating :(
on another note what you responded to @Anonymous Sep 29, 3:50 PM was spot on!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror i need your advice .This guy that i've dated for 2 months is making me confused now.I can see that he is interested to see me at least once in a week.At the end of the date he mostly set up a schedule for our next date.But the problem is he barely contact me in between dates.He is just sending me an sms once or twice a week saying that he is thinking of me ,then i just reply.We even didn't text back and forth.Also he never called me except when i asked him to call.But when we see each other i can see that he is into me as he is very attentive and communicative .He is a taurus guy and likes to touch ,hug and kiss me in the public. I am confused if he is really interested in me.He never called me unless when i asked him one time when he was trying to invite me through text ..i made him call instead as i was following your blog.I like him a lot but i cannot connect with him emotionally in between dates.We are in 8 dates now and i don't still feel a deep connection when we don't see each other but still he likes to see me and all our date was formal.What should i do? Please mirror help :) Thank you !

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 2, 8:39 AM,
"i cannot connect with him emotionally in between dates.We are in 8 dates now and i don't still feel a deep connection when we don't see each other but still he likes to see me and all our date was formal. What should i do?"

You need to give some thought as to whether or not this man is capable of fulfilling your needs and making you happy. If he is not leading the situation towards progressing forward - and you're not feeling a connection with him as a result, then you might want to consider cutting your losses now before investing any more time into this situation, and moving forward on your own with him so that you can find a man that wants what you want.

Because this man is signaling that what he wants is a casual situation (irregular, sporadic) - and it doesn't appear he's moving things forward towards a committed one (regular, consistent) unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with the clever/crafty ex.

So, after his last attempt at contact (not a genuine attempt but rather to ascertain if I was overseas from the ringtone), he pulled out the mother of all nuclear weapons ... crickets. HE disappeared, in an attempt to get me to sit up and notice HIM again, think about him, wonder about him ... if he's gone for good (creating uncertainty and heightening attraction), etc. That was almost 3 weeks ago. If I had not had the benefit of Mirror's teachings, the old me would have gone off the rails by now.

It really made me muse. One year on, and it seems we are back where we started. He hasn't changed. Also, I am trying to be ok with it even if I never hear from him again. I have to be.

pisces girl said...

Hi Mirror I know ive touched on this topic before but I don't remember under which topic so here I am bringing it up again because its something that comes up quite a bit between me and my girlfriend and its about a woman's age when dating and her chances of finding someone suitable. My girlfriend is 32 and im 30 and she keeps going on about how its harder at our age to meet someone and one of her friends who happens to be the same age agrees with her and tells her that at our age its almost impossible to meet someone good because guys/men are chasing after the 18 -22 year olds but I remember what you said about how that's just my own insecurities talking and I tell her that but sometimes I do wonder if this is the case because I read that men want someone they can show off to their friends and who their friends would high five them for I know its so silly but guys/men are so shallow and superficial even older men! they want a hot young woman. Then there are the men who make us feel insecure by asking us why we are still single. It seems to be more common and acceptable for men to be single and live that bachelor life but women are seen as desperate or flawed or something totally stupid like that!?!. I think that's why many of us try to hang on to a man and relationship so desperately because we fear if we don't land one by a certain age no man will want us. I wonder how other women's dating experiences have been in their 30's and up as they get older and how to feel less insecure about being over 30 and still single.
Also why are men less likely to commit nowadays like what does it take to make him commit!!?!? it seems like losing their freedom and independence is their biggest fear.
Any responses would be much appreciated xo

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Pisces Girl,
"men want someone they can show off to their friends and who their friends would high five them for"

Well, it's important to understand, when taking a statement like the above into consideration, that this will be the goal for emotionally immature men only. Because having "arm candy" isn't what's important - it's a shallow, egotistical goal. So the only men that will be important to. . .is immature, insecure men. They're the ones worried about impressing their buddies.

True gentlemen that are confident and emotionally mature know that there's a lot more to a relationship besides shallow issues like looks and impressing your buddies. Confident men don't feel the need to impress anybody. They have confidence already, and they don't need to attempt to receive it from anyone else (their buddies) to make themselves feel like successful men. They're ALREADY successful as far as they're concerned, and they don't have to prove anything to anybody at all.

So that statement above WILL apply to immature, insecure men. But it WON'T apply to confident, mature gentlemen.

"I know its so silly but guys/men are so shallow and superficial even older men! they want a hot young woman."

Not all men. Not all men are the same and you can't lump them all into one category. That's like saying all women are the same and they're all gold diggers. It's simply not true. You have men that are shallow and immature, and you have women that are gold diggers (dependent on men). You have men that are mature and confident, and you have women that are independent and don't need a mans money. So while that statement may be true for some, it's not true for all.

"I think that's why many of us try to hang on to a man and relationship so desperately because we fear if we don't land one by a certain age no man will want us."

But even if you "land" one - there are no guarantees in life. I was married at 26 - and divorced by 34. And I know couples who've been married for 30 years - and end up divorced by their late 50's. There's no guarantee that once you land a man. . .you'll be set for life. The reality is that no matter what stage of life you're in, you will always only have yourself to truly rely on. And no matter what stage of your marriage you're in, you have basically a 50/50 chance these days that you'll end up alone again someday anyway.

So landing a man isn't the end-all, be-all in life. It does not guarantee that you'll never be alone. There are no guarantees in life unfortunately.

"I wonder how other women's dating experiences have been in their 30's and up as they get older and how to feel less insecure about being over 30 and still single."

I dated a lot in my 30's, and I met morons and good guys. Same with my 40's, morons and good guys. Same with my 20's, morons and good guys LOL. No matter your age, you're always going to meet men of different "flavors" - you'll meet morons, you'll meet good guys, you'll meet men who aren't ready, you'll meet men who want to rush down the aisle, you'll meet men who like being single and can't commit, you'll meet men that are great but you're not ready, you'll meet men who are out to use you sexually. . .you'll always have all types of experiences, regardless of your age.

And for me, I was insecure when I was young - and it wasn't until I was past the age of 35 that I became secure. So for me, i was never insecure about being single past 30. I experienced the opposite - the older I got, the more secure I became with myself as a woman.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Also why are men less likely to commit nowadays"

Truth be told, it's our fault (women) they're less likely to commit. We now live in a "high sex supply" society. Sex for free and in high supply everywhere for men. Women no longer demand to be courted before giving up the goods. Men barely have to lift a finger for it. And when something is in high supply, it's value decreases.

Men don't have to commit - because back in the day sex was scarce. And because it was scarce, it was highly valued. Women didn't give their bodies away for free. So committing is what used to guarantee a man a steady supply of sex through acquiring a mate. Nowadays, they don't have to commit to get that need fulfilled. They no longer need a mate to supply sex - sex is no longer scarce, it's in high supply to them everywhere - and it's free.

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? If someone is giving you the milk for free, there's no need for you to own a cow LOL.

A good example of this, and one that I've shared before - is the diamond industry.

Most people think diamonds are scarce, which is entirely untrue. Cashmere sapphires are rare. Tanzanite is rare. But there's an endless supply of diamonds. So what the mines do, particularly the De Beers mine, is they HOLD BACK the world supply of diamonds and they stockpile them and only release a certain amount into the market each year. They do NOT FLOOD the market with all the diamonds available.

Because if they did that - the value of the diamond would drop tremendously.

They know that by holding back the supply and tightly controlling it and keeping good diamonds scarce means they'll remain highly valued. They know that good diamonds will ALWAYS be sought after if they are not easy to come by. And they know that they'll be able to keep the prices high for something considered scarce.

If De Beers released their entire supply of diamonds onto the market - you'd be able to get a good one carat diamond for $100 bucks because there are hundreds of thousands of them. They understand the Law of Scarcity in economics and the Law of Supply and Demand - and they're controlling the supply - and in doing so, they're keeping the demand high. They intentionally keep their product scarce. And in doing so, they're able to charge thousands for a good one carat diamond.

So take that concept and apply it to sex. Back in the day, women intentionally held their product (sex) back, and they tightly controlled the release of it. And by keeping the supply of sex low - they kept the demand for commitment high. But what's happened is that nowadays, I'm sorry to say but women do not view sex or their own bodies as highly valued anymore. Instead, they've flooded the market with free sex, and by making the supply of sex high - they've forced the demand for commitment to drop.

It really boils down to a math equation of sorts that's that simple:

High supply = low value, low demand.
Scarce supply = high value, high demand.

And right now we're living in a high sex supply society, which automatically means that the value and demand drop. Women hold the ULTIMATE POWER. WE have what THEY want. And if we don't realize that and reclaim it. . .we are devaluing ourselves and the committed lifestyle in general. :-(

piscesgirl said...

Thank you so much for your lengthy reply Mirror as always you enlighten me and really give me some food for thought. You are a very intelligent woman and after reading one of your replies under no contact rule i had tears in my eyes because if i had always applied what you said to my dating relationships i would have saved myself so much undue heartache and pain and my self esteem would of remained intact instead of plummeting so much like it did and taken years to rebuild because i put up with shit from a non committal ass ..... "And as a woman, when you easily LET a man slip and out of your life constantly like that, without forcing him to PROVE that he's finally ready first before giving into him again. . .all you end up with is a man that takes it for granted that you'll always be there, no matter how poorly he treats you, so he doesn't have to try, he doesn't have to prove himself, he doesn't have to be consistent or reliable - and he can come and go as he pleases. Keeping you on a yo-yo string, yanking you in when he wants, and then reeling you out and letting you loose when he wants.

And I probably don't have to tell you - that type of relationship is NOT healthy, and it WILL damage your self-esteem and self-worth as a woman. You will start to feel "not good enough" and you will begin to question your own value.

NEVER let a man do that to you, or treat you that way."

i think so many of us ladies here need to sticker this on our mirror and read it over and over again until it really sinks in.

piscesgirl said...

For your response to my question i really like how you point out that no matter what a woman's age we're going to meet different flavors and it couldnt be more true Mirror because when i think about it in my twenties i was meeting just as many morons/douchebags as i do now!! and back when i was younger and more naive i couldnt recognize the bullshit as well as i do now (a huge thanks to you!!) so in reality dating is actually easier now at 30 than at 20 because i can recognize a playboy's game better and cut it off almost immediately instead of being manipulated, taken advantage of and lied to. Im also more confident in myself as woman overall and where i am in my life and i think confidence is highly attractive to most men. I actually have younger really good looking guys still hitting on me still so i guess age really doesnt matter and to most its not a factor to them. One younger guy (25)even said age is just a number what does it matter when i told him i couldnt date him because he was younger and currently a really fit and good looking 28 year old is telling me how beautiful i am and how much he would love to take me on a date. So really i think my friend and her friend are wrong and a successful relationship boils down to chemistry and compatability and you're right there are no guaranteed that just because you land a man that hes gonna be around forever. Then there are countless women who turn a blind eye to many things such as cheating and other bad behaviour just so they can continue to post "happy" family pics on facebook.....

piscesgirl said...

You are absolutely right its only the insecure, immature guys that age makes a difference too and they will try to make u feel old and insecure especially if you reject them. They will say something like thats why your ___ and still single or no man will want you cause your ___ .Thats happened to me a few times so now right off the bat even though i may feel self conscious at times about getting older amongst other things i never make it known to a man that i am. In fact i say i love the confidence and knowledge i have gained over the years and im happier now than i was when i was when i was in my twenties and things like that so that way they can never use something they know im insecure about against me later on because i made sure they believe that im self assured and confident. Sometimes you do just have to fake it till you make it. I see now why it is in a woman's own best interest that she doesnt tell men all her inner most thoughts and feelings and insecurities especially early on so the insecure assholes cant use it against her later on especially when the relationship ends that seems to be when they are the biggest A-holes. but you are right (again) real men- real gentleman would never behave like that. You make so many excellent points Mirror and really it all boils down to us. Im starting to realize you attract what you are so if you are insecure you will attract mainly insecure guys and if youre confident and mature that is what you will attract more of. So focusing on becoming the best version of yourself is so vitally important. And you're right about men receiving sex too easily nowadays and it being in such high supply that they really dont see the reason to commit makes sense. More reasons i think a lot of men just get bored easily and like variety and also i find men are getting cheaper and cheaper and see having a wife and kids and house as a huge expense that they dont want and even with divorce comes the big payout and alimony so they'd rather stay bachelors and spend their money on themselves and not have to deal with a nagging wife. "why buy the cow when the milk is free" my mom would always tell me that too and if she read what you wrote she would be saying yes! and agreeing with it all. I guess even now in this newage generation where women are independent and sexually liberated we still have to remember and practice the values of our mothers/grandmothers time when sex was in scare supply and only happened with real commitment from a man.
thank u Mirror <3 <3

Anonymous said...

MOA said "Well - there actually IS good that can come of it. Let me explain.

Sometimes people come into your life to be "teachers" for you. Sometimes they're not meant to be your lover or your husband or your friend - sometimes, they're meant to be a teacher. And the life lesson they are teaching you, while very painful. . .is also VERY valuable as well. Because through your painful experience, this person, this teacher, has actually taught you what NOT to tolerate, what NOT to do and in doing so. . .actually helps you better determine what you need, what you SHOULD do and how you should expect to be treated by others."

OMG, you hit it right on the head. I've read your piece on insecure guys and you described the guy I WAS seeing to a Tee. But as you stated, I think he crossed my path to show me what is NOT acceptable behavior from a man. Yes, the lesson was painful, but one I had to learn. I wish I had read this 2 years ago. I hate to admit it, but I really lost myself in this guy and I let him get away with a lot of bad behavior. But I've learned my lesson and next time around things will be very different.

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror..... Hi everyone
I want your opinion please......

what kind of men say to a woman " I want to buy a cage and put you in it and see you cry"

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 17, 12:16 AM,
"what kind of men say to a woman " I want to buy a cage and put you in it and see you cry"

A man with sadistic tendencies (derives pleasure from inflicting pain, humiliation and suffering onto others).

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with the clever/crafty ex.

As you might expect, crafty ex re-appeared, 1 month from his last text (the magical number). He texted: "Hi [my name]. How are you?" No response. Then, 1 week later, "Miss talking to you. How are you? Are you ok? Just reply ok or not ok?" No response. So, the no contact is working. It has taken almost 4 months of constant on-again off-again texting and calls, for him to get to this point (progress!). He has never before said he "misses" me during NC periods, preferring to text questions about other topics (work, sports, shared interests, etc.).

I have been reflecting a lot on taking care of myself first and foremost, of putting myself first. It does get easier, and I feel stronger, more in control, more empowered. In short, a lot better. But there are bad days too, which surprises me sometimes, but I allow myself 5-10 minutes of "down" time and then I get up and going again. I don't know if I have gotten to the point of practising to the point where my insecurities are now effectively being managed and no longer manifest, but the "new me" has manifested in other areas - work, attention from different guys, etc. All good things.

Here's the thing. I still think of him often. Truth be told, I do miss the fella sometimes. This does not mean I'm not staying the course. And when I search my heart, I have to admit, I still love him. Is this normal, Mirror? I don't think I have an attachment disorder, or anything like that.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. Just started dating a guy only looking for FWB but then says it could lead to more. Thought I would give it a try. We have been attending various activities and getting to know each other.

My concern is that he is regularly highly critical of other people. His words are very strong - like controlling, domineering, manipulative, etc. He claims to be caring, supportive, affectionate with me but I wonder if somewhere down the line I will be the next target for his foul mouth. He is quick to try and minimize his criticisms, saying he is just passionate about things.

Mirror, should this be a huge red flag for me?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 10, 2:53 PM,
". . .he is regularly highly critical of other people. His words are very strong - like controlling, domineering, manipulative, etc. He claims to be caring, supportive, affectionate with me but I wonder if somewhere down the line I will be the next target for his foul mouth. . .should this be a huge red flag for me?"

It is a red flag. And when someone has that type of personality, generally speaking, it's only a matter of time before that silver tongue starts lashing out on those close to them, using them like a beating board, should things sour or go sideways.

I should mention too, that those that are overly critical and harshly judgmental of others without cause, are usually deeply insecure individuals. And rather than deal with their own shortcomings, they're instead quick to point out what they perceive as shortcomings in others. This is to keep the focus away from them and on others at all times.

When dating someone like this, you have to understand - and be prepared for - what may come during arguments, tiffs, disagreements, or a break up/separation of some sort. Because it won't be pretty. Rather, it will most likely turn extremely ugly very quick. Additionally, being exposed to that type of negative energy daily by being around someone like that can affect you negatively as well.

People enjoy being around other people that make them feel good, about themselves and about life in general. When you're around someone who is constantly focused on the negative, it can wear you down. On top of that, it's simply unattractive. People like that have a tendency to isolate themselves from others unknowingly through their own behavior and treatment of others. They don't realize it, but their behavior causes people to move away from them, versus drawing them in.

This man only wants a FWB situation. He's offering nothing else. If that's not what you want, I wouldn't risk exposing myself to this regularly on top of participating in a situation that in the end, most likely will not make you happy anyway (if it's a relationship you truly seek). And if he's this judgmental of others on a regular basis, one has to wonder - what does he secretly think about women who are willing to enter into a FWB situation? Does he respect them, or does he secretly consider them weak? Will he treat them with respect, or will he intentionally emotionally abuse and manipulate them simply because he can? It's a lot to think about, but I'd give it all some serious thought before exposing myself to it any further.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

Started dating a guy a month ago. He said he was divorced and it was extremely hard on him emotionally. In fact, he regularly says how much he hates his wife for putting him through so much hell.

He knows some people that I also know. One day recently, one of those friends mentioned talking to him at a social function. My BF apparently told her he was married. I was completely baffled as he told me he already went through this 6 months ago.

I brought this up and his answer was that yes he is still married but the divorce has not gone through yet, his wife won't agree to a settlement. WTF??? I have invested 6 months of my heart and emotions on someone who makes up stories. I asked him why he said he was divorced then. His reply was that he meant to say he is going through a divorce only. Should I even believe his explanation to me? What is going on here? My head is spinning.

Help!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mon, Nov 30, 5:21 PM,
"Started dating a guy a month ago. He said he was divorced. . .he is still married but the divorce has not gone through yet. . .is reply was that he meant to say he is going through a divorce only. . .I have invested 6 months of my heart and emotions. . .Should I even believe his explanation to me?"

Nope. There's a very big difference between being married and being single, and going through a divorce versus actually BEING divorced. And he chose to tell you he was divorced. That's not some small thing that you can get out of on a technicality. He's had many opportunities, I'm sure, to clarify his situation, yet he chose to continue to let you believe he was single.

And most likely that's because he KNOWS single women aren't all that thrilled to become involved with married men. Had he been honest and explained he's in the process of a divorce, which who even knows if that's true at this point now, then at least he's being honest. But instead, he's choosing to go about dating in a manipulative and deceitful way.

NOT a good sign.

It doesn't speak well to his character as a man, it doesn't speak well for his respect for you, and trust is the foundation that any good relationship must be built on - which he has now broken completely :-(

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

Need your advice. Starting dating a guy I met on POF a month ago. Was impressed with his ability to communicate and talk expressively. Certainly a welcome change from previous BF who never opened up.

Lots of chemistry between us but we have not become intimate as yet. I have set down a rule to get to know each other first. No problem at his end waiting for sex. Anyway, it is always my policy to do some research on guys I date to avoid heartbreak.

I searched on google and the courts online system in our area. To my horror he has been charged twice. Once for stalking, and another someone feared for their safety. There is also a court reasons of judgement article online that says he is bipolar with a history of going off his medication. He becomes violent when this occurs. I confronted him about this and he says he has this all under control now. He wants a chance from me.

Mirror, should I even get into a situation like this? I am very nervous and wonder when he will suddenly go off medication again, physically hurt me, or worse, kill me? Should I turn and run?

Thank you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 4, 11:08 PM,
"I searched on google and the courts online system in our area. To my horror he has been charged twice. Once for stalking, and another someone feared for their safety. There is also a court reasons of judgement article online that says he is bipolar with a history of going off his medication. He becomes violent when this occurs. I confronted him about this and he says he has this all under control now. He wants a chance from me. Mirror, should I even get into a situation like this?"

NO.

He may have this situation under control right now, but that doesn't mean it will always be under control because he's got a history or not taking his medication. If there are 2 reports, that means there are probably even more instances that have gone unreported.

Some people are simply not ready to date, or are incapable of actually being one half of a healthy relationship for whatever reason. And in this case, I'd say this because of this man's medical situation, he's not truly capable of being one half of a healthy relationship - which makes him undateable.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Thanks so much for your blog and sharing your wisdom. I recently got really hurt by a guy who strings me along for 7 months. Been treated like a hookup and booty call. Although we had decent dates by exploring nice restaurants, going hiking and watching shows during that period. He can only see me once a week on weeknights. He said he'd rather rest on weekends because his job is really "demanding". He distanced himself quite a bit before he completed disappeared around Thanksgiving. Haven't heard back since but I didn't reach out either.

I wonder, Mirror, is he insecure or what? That once a week meetup thing and the fact that he never introduced me to any of his friends. He also joked a lot about how all women are Bitches. He mentioned he should never gets married...Big red flags like that. He refused to take pics together and very secretive about this phone and weekends. He is very active dating apps and one little details I noticed is, he has his ex's pic as his phone and desktop background(a very small profile pic in the corner)! Anway, I am curious what type guy he is? Insecure? player?

Thanks,Anna

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anna,
"I wonder, Mirror, is he insecure or what?"

I'm not sure he's insecure so much as - possibly attached.

Meaning, he's behaving as if he's a man with something - or someone - to hide. . .like a girlfriend :-(

It would explain why he didn't want to be in any photos with you, and also why he wouldn't introduce you to family and friends, and also why he could only see you once a week during the week. As well as why he's secretive with his phone.

"he has his ex's pic as his phone and desktop background(a very small profile pic in the corner)!"

Hmm, I'm not too well versed in tech itself however, are you sure that's a photo thumbnail - and not possibly a live "chat" link of some sort?

Anonymous said...

Hi MoA,

I suspect he has a girlfriend in the beginning, but he is still so active on dating apps. Wouldn't he worry his girlfriend might find out about that if that's the case? Now I suspect he is still hung up and talking to his ex, the girl who is in that photo thumbnail, and trying to get her back. He uses girls like me to get laid or when he is bored. I have to say, he is a very good looking man with a high pay job. Girls probably pursue him.
Anyway, Mirror, he stopped initiating since three/four weeks ago and we haven't talked since. He always reply my text when I initiate. Before his disappearance, we met up every single week for 7 months. He always planed something fun or special. I wonder what changed? I never asked what we are or push for a relationship, do you think he will circle back and reach out again? It has been almost 1 month, I fear he would just disappear for good.:(

Thanks so much,
Anna

Anonymous said...

Hi MoA,

It is Anna again. After read your post, I did some digging and found out the man I have been dating for almost a year is married. That really explained why he is so secretive this whole time. I am devastated. How could he be so messed up. I really wanted to confront him about lying about his marriage. What should I do? This kind of guy needs to be punished.

Anna

Anonymous said...

Hello ladies. Insecure man here and I would like to point out how wrong and insulting this article actually is. I do believe it makes good points but they are not about insecure men, they're about assholes. Being an insecure man is a curse. Not feeling comfortable in your own skin is awful. They just want to be submissive people. They do not need or want to be vampires. They are not manipulating you. They are so worried about not doing anything so they don't make people angry. They are scared. This probably stems from an early childhood tragedy or from a from toxic relationship. In my case it was both. All they really want is to be loved. I understand it's a problem that they don't show or reciprocate as much love back in relationships but they are afraid of rejection. At any point in time. They don't try to use guilt. They feel guilty themselves. They don't love themselves. It's more of a mental disorder than anything else. They don't expect compliments and they can make them feel uncomfortable. Yes they're damaged goods but everybody wants to be loved. Also what perpetuates this is that they need somebody to love them to feel love for themselves. That's about it just wanted to put my 2 cents in on what clearly seems to be a confusing problem. Luckily I'm in the process of healing. Hope this helps women understand this better.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Insecure Man,
Thank you for sharing here. And yes, I feel you're partially right about this ". . .they are not about insecure men, they're about assholes." You're right about the second half.

Because here's the rub - people who are deeply insecure behave strangely. Their insecurities cause this behavior. As a result, they do tend to act like assholes. And this works both ways, for men and women. When a man behaves strangely and acts out on his insecurities, he comes across to others like an asshole. Just like how when women behave strangely and act out on their insecurities, they get hit with the "crazy" label.

We all have insecurities on some level, but not all of us act out on them. Many people instead confront them, do lots of very hard inner work on themselves, and deal with them in a manner in which they learn to properly manage them.

"I understand it's a problem that they don't show or reciprocate as much love back in relationships but they are afraid of rejection."

While this is true on some deep level, it's no excuse to treat others poorly. There's no excuse NOT to do the hard inner work on themselves, to learn to manage their insecurities - versus projecting them onto others and forcing them to accept that treatment and that behavior.

It's not fair for someone to give another their "all" - while the other only takes because they fear rejection. If the person fears rejection so deeply that they cannot behave in a manner that is fair and equal in a relationship. . .then they have no business dating. They need to work on themselves instead of dating and expecting others to accept what little they have to give.

"Yes they're damaged goods but everybody wants to be loved."

But if you don't love yourself - no one else can love you either.

"Also what perpetuates this is that they need somebody to love them to feel love for themselves."

Keyword here being "need" - yes, insecure individuals have very hefty "needs" and as a result, can come across to others as extremely needy (hence the vampire reference).

Needing somebody to love you in order for you to love yourself. . .is actually not healthy at all. Your value as a human being does not come from others, it comes from within yourself. You cannot expect others to constantly be putting aside their own needs in order to constantly be filling you up with what you need in order to feel good about yourself. That's asking too much of others and it's not healthy.

Instead, you need to do the hard work of facing your insecurities and then learning healthy ways to manage them, so that you can be one half of a healthy relationship that has an equal exchange of give and take - balance. You can't ask so much of another that you leave them feeling exhausted, drained and completely used. That is not a healthy relationship.

"Luckily I'm in the process of healing."

I'm happy to hear that. There are many women here on that very journey themselves. And I myself took that journey many years back. It's not an easy road to walk, and taking a good hard look at yourself can be a very painful process.

But in the end - it's worth every ounce of effort you place into it. The best investment anyone can make - man or woman - is in themselves.

Much luck to you on your journey ;-)

Beth said...

Hi Anna,

I've unwittingly become involved with men who are attached and for your own sake, it's best to quietly walk away. The first time it happened, I *knew* something was up but refused to acknowledge it, I was in denial.

Now after a month or less, if the guy is acting too elusive-like never inviting me over, contact mainly during business hours, only wanting to get together during the week, I give them one chance, and I will say "I'm really busy on Tuesday but I'm free Saturday night or Sunday afternoon". If they don't accommodate this perfectly reasonable request, I'm out and I tell them, this is no longer working for me.
Insecure is too nice of a word for any person that does this.

Anonymous said...

Hi Beth,

Thank you for reminding me what I need to do here. I also knew something was up earlier on and I was in denial. I definitely wouldn't get involved with that man again. I wasted almost a year on that man, I need to focus on healing right now so when the right person come along, I will be ready for him.

Like MoA said, the process of getting to know yourself, love yourself and be more self-aware is a painful process but it worth every bit of effort. I beat myself up so hardly this year and get emotional drained really bad. He came to my life to teach me a lesson and I shall get wiser because of it.

Thanks,Anna

Anonymous said...

MOA:

On and off BF for approximately 6 months. It is unclear to me from his behavior if he is just a commitment phobic or attached/married. How can you tell the difference?

I have not seen where he lives, met his friends or his family members. In fact, he never even speaks about these people. He only wants to text and on the rare occasions we have talked on the phone, his voice kept alternating between high pitch and regular tones. I asked him outright about his status and he said he has been divorced for awhile.

Can you provide some clues as to whether this character is hiding another relationship or if he is simply a "chicken shit"? Frankly, I am fed up trying to figure things out. I have dumped him so many times and gone back that you could list my experiences in the Guinness World Records.

Help, I am going crazy!


Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with the clever and crafty ex.

I haven't posted in some time. (I think I may have posted once since my last comment in October but it somehow got deleted.) Since the last post, clever/crafty ex has texted sporadically, less and less often, each time using the guise of "so and so was with him and wanted to speak to me." He clearly remembers me telling him not to "push" me to respond by referencing returning $$ owed, referring to work contacts, or just plain threatening to cease communications - all of which he did previously, all of which garnered him no response. Still, this is just more of the same.

Anyway, he has disappeared for over a month, since his last attempt at contact. Whatever the reasons (him doing his own NC in an attempt to trigger my fears and insecurities, get me to chase and gain the upper hand, etc.) does not matter. Perhaps it is the "end". And if it is, perhaps, this is for the better. You were right when, in January this year, you said that a third time round with this one would not end any differently - no "told you so's" necessary. As many others have observed, we women tend to issue the benefit of the doubt, for WAY too long, even where there are no grounds to warrant that benefit, and even where it is not deserved. For so long, I have let my emotions cloud my better judgment, to not let me see him for who he truly was, and too hope too much for the good that might be in him and for what might be. Again, no "told you so's" needed.

Why am I posting now? Because I, myself, am finally seeing the "end". Whether it's what he intended does not matter. Again, you were right in your observations. That if he really wanted to change, he himself must want to. That if he had a shred of human decency, pride and ego issues aside, he'd have apologised. It's common human decency, nothing more. I am not worth even that to him, it seems.

I suppose I am getting maudlin because it's that time of the year, which I have always detested. I can't wait for it to be over. Perhaps it's my time to get hammered flat so that I can rebuild.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is the same Anonymous (again).

These past 2 weeks, my thoughts have been racing and emotions in turmoil. I think partly this was because I was travelling through the countryside on very long drives and away from my usual work routine. Honestly, it's been a huge struggle. Even after I returned to work and familiar surroundinga and routine.

Is this me struggling to let go? Revisiting everything because I'm on the cusp of letting go?

I've read all your articles, the comments and a heap of literature, practised all the tools and other coping devices referenced (both with ex, friends and work - the latter two with positive results), but am still struggling.

I know you're busy but would appreciate your advice and some tough love. Happy holidays to you, and thank you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 19, at 3:02 PM,
"I have not seen where he lives, met his friends or his family members. . .he never even speaks about these people. He only wants to text and on rare occasions we have talked on the phone. . .I asked him outright about his status and he said he has been divorced for awhile."

Hmm, none of that sounds quite right. And generally, they indicate that there's something, or someone - to hide. Because if a man is casually dating and has nothing or no one to hide, he'll usually eventually have the woman over to his place, especially after 6 months, and he'll mention family, friends, etc. in conversation.

When someone is NOT doing that 6 months in - it's a red flag :-(

I believe very recently in this thread, there was another woman experiencing the same exact thing. After looking into a bit more and doing some digging around. . .she discovered he was married :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 23, 11:56 AM,
"Is this me struggling to let go? Revisiting everything because I'm on the cusp of letting go?"

Most likely, yes. And it's a very normal thing to do. You're "processing" all that has happened, which is very normal.

"I've. . .practised all the tools and other coping devices referenced (both with ex, friends and work - the latter two with positive results), but am still struggling."

Struggling is part of the process of recovery. Think of it like addiction - relapse is a part of recovery. It's to be expected. No one bounces back 100% without that taking place in any situation.

And don't miss the VERY important message in your comment there - "the latter two with positive results."

Forget about the struggling part and instead, try to stay focused on what IS WORKING. Try to stay focused on what's bringing positive results. Because if you do that, those positive results will lead to more positive results and so on and so on. THAT is the path that will guide you to your happiness - so do you best to stay focused on what's bringing positive results and energy into your life, and do your best to not give too much of your energy to the "struggling" portion, because that's to be expected, and if you stay focused on the positive, you can move past it eventually ;-)

Fire & Water said...

@Anon w/ the clever & crafty ex,
"I suppose I am getting maudlin because it's that time of the year, which I have always detested. I can't wait for it to be over. Perhaps it's my time to get hammered flat so that I can rebuild."
I hope you don't mind, but I wanted to jump in here. I know this can be such a hard time - to have something you wanted ending right at a time of year when there is so much celebration going on. I think you're right about rebuilding. Maybe your first step is to make this season one you don't detest, by starting your own tradition...with ANYthing that makes you happy. There's more discussion on this under Mirror's "Beware The Holiday Hookup" post, but instead of doing what you've tended to do, what if this year you could do something different, that you love? If you feel alone a lot, what about inviting a bunch of girlfriends to dinner? If you're stressed, what about giving yourself a movie night with a special bath or a day at the spa? If you want to be active, what about volunteering for any cause which is near and dear to your heart? What you choose to do doesn't have to be holiday-ish, only something that's special and important to you and let's you bring the year to an end on a note that makes you truly happy. I've mentioned this before, but my best girlfriend and I have dinner together at my house. I decorate and cook for us and we have a girl's night, sometime between now and the middle of January. I call it our "2nd Christmas" :). I hope this idea is helpful to you. And, as it seems you are hurting right now, please know that there are good wishes coming to you from my corner of the world!
Fire & Water

Anonymous said...

Mirror, Fire & Water, thank you for the encouraging words.

I have always detested this season for various reasons. Without going into the details, I have always spent this time taking stock of the year - what I have done, achieved or not achieved, etc. and usually, I find myself falling short. I am very hard on myself, I know. Also, this season coincides with my birthday, and I have never liked being reminded of becoming a year older! Plus, this year, I am reminded of the birthday stunt ex pulled last year.

I do have friends, family and activities. Even in the midst of these events, however, introspection hits and I find myself thinking and musing about other things. But perhaps you are right, it is time to start my own "tradition", perhaps in a small way.

Re-reading the older comments, it hit me a few days ago what clever ex is doing. He's pulling back and feigning a disappearance (or fading) to send me into a panic - "where is he? where did he go? is he not interested any longer? is this the end/goodbye?" - and to galvanise me to take chase (and hand the upper hand and control to him).

Re-reading Mirror's other articles, it also occurred to me that he is a PLAYER, and he's "playing" now. He plays head games, messes with people's emotions, all to gain the upper hand and control. When we were together he never really struck me as a player or player-type, because of his background and experience, and perhaps because of my own preconceived stereotypes of a "player", but Mirror as usual is spot on in her analysis and assessment. For example, one morning, after he did not come over the previous night because of a misunderstanding, he was feigning pulling back - taking 30-45 minutes to answer texts, ignoring previous texts, etc. I knew what he was up to and mirrored him (thanks to this site and the tools taught here), until his texts came every 3-4 minutes, before telling him "you don't tire of your games tricks and stunts but I do. Call me when you grow up, if I'm still single we'll see." And bingo! He called within 10 minutes saying he loved me and so on. Later that evening, he called me an "a**hole". Yea, you got beaten at your own game, pal, and the a**hole met his match, a**hole. They don't admit to playing games and being manipulative but somehow I am fiendish and diabolical for beating him at his own damn childish game?!

So I thought, if he wants to play, then game on, I'll be the coach. But then, he may not be playing. Maybe this really is the end. But then I think, I am tired and I am done with this. He put it all on the line by doing this and he has to live with the consequences. I deserve better, my worth and value are not determined by one man - or any man.

I will continue to move on with my life. As they say, onwards and upwards.

Best wishes for the new year to you, Mirror, and all the ladies here.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 27, 9:41 PM,
"Later that evening, he called me an "a**hole". Yea, you got beaten at your own game, pal, and the a**hole met his match, a**hole. They don't admit to playing games and being manipulative but somehow I am fiendish and diabolical for beating him at his own damn childish game?!"

OMG, that made me laugh out loud. I actually had an ex one time tell his mother right in front of me - "Listen to her, she's diabolical." She was in the midst of dealing with her ex husband who was doing a bit of gaming himself and she was getting run over because she was "too nice." I couldn't watch it anymore, so I interjected myself one day and told her what I would do if it were me. And that's when my then boyfriend told her I was diabolical and she should listen to me LOL ;-)

Generally speaking, many men enjoy thinking that they're smarter than the female race because they're logical, and women are "crazy emotional" which they feel hinders a woman's ability to be slick or smart about things.

So when they come across a woman who is slick and smart, and that plays it cool and eventually outsmarts them - suddenly she's a drastically different creature to them, and one that's along the lines of devilish for being one step ahead of them LOL ;-)

I'm still chuckling over that one. . .

Anonymous said...

Actually he called me an "a**hole" several times. We were in his car and he kept muttering under his breath and shaking his head whilst repeating "a**hole".

Anyway, update. Just when I thought I was done (had not felt the "shift", but mentally told myself that I am moving on and tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life), clever ex resurfaced.

He sent roses, expensive whisky (he knows I collect) and a card. It would be impolite to not at least thank him (as many women myself included dream/wish for such gestures but seldom receive them), but I don't wish to get into something I'm not ready for and undo all the work I've done over the past 6 months (yes it has been that long). Nor am I certain I am strong enough to just remain "friends" with this man. Everyday I give myself pep talks to be strong, keep it together and keep moving forward, some days are better than others . What would you do Mirror?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 29, 1:10 AM,
"he called me an "a**hole" several times. . .He sent roses, expensive whisky (he knows I collect) and a card. . .It would be impolite to not at least thank him . . .but I don't wish to get into something I'm not ready for. . .What would you do Mirror?"

I'd send him a thank you card in the mail and consider the matter closed.

Because while this is a kind gesture, it's also one that's a day late and a dollar short. Meaning. . .it's too late for this, the damage has been done.

And most likely, this isn't so much a kind gesture as it is a "stunt" to get you to contact him and open the door for conversation. He's a player, you've determined this and feel it in your gut. And he runs hot and cold regularly - one minute playing games and taking almost an hour to respond to each text, only to realize you're onto that game, to next swing into professing his love for you. . .only to end up later that same day calling you an asshole half a dozen times.

Sorry - roses and gifts are nice - but they're not going to repair that kind of behavior, ya' know? And just because you make a kind gesture like that doesn't mean that someone will be able to overlook all of the cruel, hurtful things you've done and said as if they never happened. That stuff does damage, and that damage lasts -- and roses can't really repair it.

So for now, I wouldn't make this too easy on him. I would send a hand written thank you card, plop it into the mail and be done with it. If he's genuinely serious about you, he'll make another attempt somehow. Which is what he should do because quite frankly, calling your girlfriend an asshole repeatedly really doesn't make her feel loved, wanted or appreciated.

It's very childish, it signals immaturity and frustration (brought on by his own actions), and I believe he needs more time on his own to think about his part in this. So I'd do the proper thing and I'd send him a nice thank you card, but I wouldn't open up the door for conversation just yet. Which is why I wouldn't thank him via a phone call or text. If you do that, he'll probably start off okay. . .but once he hears something he doesn't want to hear, he could be back to acting childish and calling you names in no time. As a result, I wouldn't give him that opportunity just yet. Being called swearwords and names is incredibly insulting and it's not something that I would easily overlook - it's verbal abuse. And if you easily overlook it, generally more of it follows. Abuse of any type needs to be strictly dealt with.

But I would send a thank you card LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.

I should clarify that that incident was nor particularly hurtful. I've told him previously that he is an a**hole, and he accepted that. Not as a badge of honour or anything like that, but this man does have self-awareness. He knows he is an a**hole. One time, he commented that men would not be given the benefit of the doubt for their bad behaviour (and continue to receive such benefit), if they were not men.

What did hurt were past incidents which led to two periods of NC, including one where he deliberately made himself scarce to get me to chase. I really wanted to spend some time with him before a long trip so that was really upsetting. And the more upsetting incident - the stunt he pulled of purchasing for himself an item he had wanted to purchase for us, then showing off that item. It was like he was throwing that in my face and challenging me to do something about it. That was incredibly hurtful and that's what made mE go into 6 months of NC (and more).

So, yea, roses whilst nice certainly do not repair these things. They don't realise just how terribly hurtful some of their little pranks can be.

So - yea, I'd hang back. And - so has he! He's not called or texted or contacted me in any form. It's almost he pre-empted this entire thought process by doing the exact opposite thong which he would be expected to do. As I'm saying this in marvelling at the cleverness of this man.

Anyhow, you are right in everything you say and advise. It's not like I intend to take chase or let fear steer the wheel in any way. I will continue to take care of myself and carry on with my life. I'm still trying to grasp the concept of the power of being a woman, I continue to see glimpses of that everyday in the women role models in my life, and in my own.

Happy new year! ;)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.

Update. Clever ex has been texting. I totally missed those texts as they had gone into the spam folder (I forgot that I had added clever ex's numbers to a list of spam numbers that get auto-rejected, LOL).

I've ignored all the texts and only said (3 days after the last text): "Hi, how are you?" So we'll see, I'm playing it cool. I keep reminding myself, with help from this site, that WE have the power and I come first.

And - another ex has returned. It's really strange, I had a fleeting thought of him about 2 weeks ago. And bam - here he is. I've not seen him in some ... 15 years at least, and he wants to have dinner. I think I'll go. I'm curious, and it would be nice to see him again. At the very least, it'll be interesting.

Will keep you posted!

loretta said...

Hi all - my daughter (who is almost 20) gave me some very interesting advice yesterday, when we were discussing her ex-boyfriend (who has turned into a real punk), and my ongoing frustration with Casual Guy. Quick recap: Casual Guy and I re-ignited, briefly, a little romance back in September that fell apart yet again because he is so bad at maintaining any kind of relationship. So, I resumed meeting with him strictly as his writing partner, but with new terms and conditions upon my continuing that arrangement. He agreed with the new terms and then proceeded to lapse on them. Most of them had to do with our working conditions at his house. We finally had a conversation about this (again) and I brought up the way he gave me mixed messages all the time, and was never clear about his intentions. He all but accused me of throwing myself at him, when in fact he was the one who started that all up again. Anyway, I won't let that humiliate me, since it's not true, but it made me angry. I didn't express that anger at all. No point. Meanwhile, he started up a little fling (doomed) with this young woman in her 30s who's been dog sitting when he goes out for more than a few hours. She is recently broken up with a boyfriend and lives a few doors down. It's a bad idea, and I find it hilarious.

My daughter told me: If a person in a relationship does nothing wrong to the other person, ever, and the other person breaks up with them, turns cold, disappears, or just acts like a jerk, than it's really easy to let them go. It's just as if they cheated on you. When they cheat on you, for me (and for her, too), it's so easy to walk away without any regret. I agree with her. I never did anything to hurt Casual Guy, never made any mistakes with him. I probably rewarded him more than gave him a hard time; although in the past two months, he has gotten a serious comeuppance. But, she's right. When you do no wrong, it should be pretty easy to let them go. I never thought about that before.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. You might find this amusing.

So clever ex wanted to do drinks, and he provided two dates - I chose one. He proposed a venue, and offered to pick me up at a certain time. So far, so good. I then suggested that we go separately and meet at the venue, as I wanted to put in my usual workout. He then asked if I had other appointments after the drinks, to which I answered vaguely something along the lines of "I have to be somewhere at [time]. So see you at [earlier time]?" To which he said ok.

Then, this exchange:

Ex: "For logistical reasons, can we have the drinks at [another venue - more convenient for him]? Easier for us to proceed to next engagement."

Me (40 minutes later): "You don't miss [favourite food item at first venue]? Sure, if you prefer."

Ex (4 minutes later): "I do but transportation and parking problems [admittedly first venue is "difficult" for visitors]. Likely to spoil my time-limited, 1 hour drinks."

[Wow. So the fear and insecurity are emerging full force already; he resents that he will have to work at this and doesn't automatically get the cat bird seat. After 6 freakin' months? In your dreams, bud. Plus, he's sulking and throwing a tantrum! And acting childish.]

Me (5 minutes later): "I had intended to make arrangements for your parking. But I don't want you to feel put out over a couple of drinks. If the stars are not aligned, we do drinks some other time."

Ex (16 minutes later): "I wanted to have the evening with you but you had other plans. So I cab it in and out to the next engagement. Very messy. So I drive and you drive. Problem over, but [favourite food item] gone! [Then a mini poem about the moon, and love being in the air with the stars in alignment.]"

Me: Crickets.

Ex (45 minutes later): "Please acknowledge my text ..."

Me: Crickets.

Next evening. Ex: "Can we meet [at his choice of venue at a time a half hour after the originally planned time]? [Followed by some comments about when I would finish my workout.]"

Me (25 minutes later): "As I said, if the stars are not in alignment, we should do drinks another time."

Ex (23 minutes later): "Do you want to?"

Me: Crickets.

Ex (9 minutes later): "Sounds like you want to drink another time. Don't stress over this. It's ok."

Me (22 minutes later): "Not at all. I'm totally relaxed. But I think you're stressed, and drinks should not be stressful. It's OK if you're not ready."

Ex (2 minutes later): "You decide, [my nickname]."

Me (8 minutes later): "I thought you are the man."

Ex (3 minutes later): "OK. We meet and drink 'next' time when I am back. Cheers."

So, Mirror, you're quite right. I haven't seen this man for 6 months, and it seems he has not quite learned. He's like a little boy throwing hissy fits when he realised he's lost control and running scared from the situation instead of manning up. That's a big fat F as in "Fail" for him. Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 7, 9:38 AM,
"I haven't seen this man for 6 months, and it seems he has not quite learned."

LOL, well what I'm sensing here, and I could be wrong, is that this man somewhat expects for things to pick up right where they left off. If he hasn't seen you for 6 months and wants to spend some time with you to repair this back up, then an hour or so meeting is a good place to start.

He should've accepted that opportunity. Because had he done so, and it went well for you, he could've asked to see you again. And that time, maybe it'd be 2 hours time spent together. And if that went well, then he could've asked for a third date and this time, maybe that could've run 4 hours or so.

The point is, he had an opportunity to get his foot back in the door. He had an opportunity to build this back up slowly, step by step, building comfort and trust along the way with each new date. And he made the choice not to do so -- because of parking concerns and his favorite food dish being unable to be consumed, LOL.

His reluctance to move at YOUR pace - a pace that YOU are comfortable with - shows his unwillingness to compromise. He wants a 5 or 6 hour date where he can lay on the charm, corner you, get into your head. . .and probably take you home with him. He wants things to pick up right where they left off. So yea, he wants things HIS way, and he doesn't seem to be able to view this for the opportunity it truly was. He was handed an opportunity to prove himself, and all he proved is that he's unwilling to compromise, and unwilling to move at your pace.

So it does appear that he feels he's the one who should be fully in control. And it does appear that he's more concerned about fulfilling his needs (an entire evening spent), than yours (a need to move slowly in small steps), which comes across as selfish.

Personally, I think he's in shock, LOL. When he told you not to stress over drinks, you're right in your assumption that it's HIM stressing over drinks. He's stressing over the fact that he's lost some power here, and he's stressed over the realization that YOU actually have some now.

And I think he's shocked that his request didn't go as planned. Because what I suspect he secretly expected when he originally asked for another time was for you to rearrange your entire schedule around him that evening. He's acting cool and collected about pushing this back to another time, but we know that's not the case because of his mention of "stressing over drinks." He gave himself away there and you picked up on that. And what I really think he was secretly expecting to happen there is I think he expected to still have a lot of power over you, I think when he suggested moving this back to another time he expected you to become insecure and start scrambling to accommodate him.

Because notice on the first day when he suggested another time, you were fine with that. You said, "If the stars are not aligned, we do drinks some other time." That was pretty much the end of it right there. You were okay with rescheduling, and he should've accepted that because HE is the one who made a request to reschedule.

BUT - what does he do instead of accepting that?

The next day he says, "Can we meet [at his choice of venue at a time a half hour after the originally planned time]?"

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So instead of accepting the reschedule as he, himself, requested. . .he takes to making another attempt to have things HIS WAY. He asked for a reschedule and he got it. Once he gets it, he doesn't want it. (He never really did want a reschedule in the first place. What he wants is to stick to his original plan and attempt to get you to rearrange your entire schedule for him). Instead, he returns the next day pushing for things to go his way again, only this time he's simply switching the times around.

He flat out says, "I wanted to have the evening with you" and he seems unwilling to accept that that's not what you want or what you're comfortable with. He doesn't seem to be thinking about YOU at all, he seems to be more concerned with pushing his own agenda onto you.

Bottom line: He blew his opportunity at getting back into your good graces all because of his ego. He does want control and he does want things to go his way. And his ego is at work attempting to fulfill that need (instead of his compassionate side accepting a compromise). He's pushing (ego) instead of accepting (compromise). And in letting his ego reign supreme here, he ended up blowing the date period. Now there is no date at all.

Oh well. Boys will be boys LOL. Too bad for him. He had the opportunity to take the first step at working his way back into your life and he walked away from it all because it wasn't going to completely go his way and he was going to have to make some compromises.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
This should be mandatory music for all you mp3 players - the song is "Down the Road" by C2C:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI-AFAiGtHY

iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/c2c/id207573488

The song has an "attitude" that's empowering. So tell the jerk to go back to resting on his sofa LOL, put your earbuds in, hit play. . .and down the road you go LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Update. Clever ex ... disappeared. It's only been in a week and as Mirror says, this is nothing in a man's world.

The usual rationalising process has taken place ... it's a power struggle, he's trying to regain control, he's retreated and rethinking strategy and next approach. Whatever. I'm tired and feeling out of whack. There's a lot going on in other areas of my life and if he isn't going to step up and contribute to making my life better, happier - then be gone.

Anonymous said...

My insecure ex started out as a dream and ended up as a nightmare. He was so attentive in the beginning, basically over-the-top attentive, to the point where it made me uncomfortable. But I told myself it was "cute" that he was so into me, because I could tell he was a little insecure. Admittedly, I also liked all the attention he was giving me at the time. I was at a low point in my life and he was feeding me everything I needed.

Things were great for a while, but his intensity eventually started to scare me. He could not take ANY criticism, even though he joked around and picked on other people all the time (another sign). He would give me these random silent treatments out of nowhere, and when I'd ask him what he was angry about, he would refuse to discuss it, like a child. He'd just seethe at me for hours, sometimes days. I would also wake up every now and then to him sitting over me, just staring at me with this cold, icy stare. He told me he liked watching me sleep. I felt like I was an object that was being possessed or consumed by him.

Towards the end, I couldn't keep my mouth shut anymore about his negative behavior and overall...weirdness. Throughout most of our relationship I was "nice" about all this, because I knew he was a very damaged person and I felt bad for him. I also felt that he "needed" me, and he would frequently tell me that if I ever left him, he would kill himself. But eventually I started calling him out on everything he was doing, and he did NOT like that at all. I think our two-year relationship dissolved within two weeks of me starting to speak up. It was like as soon as I started asserting MY needs and voicing my dissatisfaction with his behavior, he was OUT the door. It became very clear to me that he did NOT care about me, but only wanted me there as an extension of him, in the exact way he wanted me to be there. It was a traumatizing experience for me to realize that he didn't actually love me and probably never had; that once I stopped playing the role he wanted me to play, I was dead to him.

What I'm working on now is stopping myself from "feeling bad" for guys who present as insecure or damaged, and swooping in to rescue them. For some reason I do this, and as a result I've attracted a string of more insecure, damaged guys who are incapable of loving me. Thankfully I haven't dated any of them seriously, and I've gotten out soon after I see the signs. But the fact is, there's still some kind of draw between that type of guy and myself, and I want to neutralize it so that this never happens again.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.

Update. Clever ex is back. There was/is a work-related emergency, and I had to speak to him urgently- although we have yet to meet as he is overseas. It's clear he's happy - very happy, to be "back" in my life or at least in contact, and so far he has been "good" (LOL). I'm still processing my thoughts and feelings - and hanging back, observing, so will post a more substantive update later. I'm very mindful of your warnings that it's always a risk to let them back in, a return carries risk.

Anyway, I wanted to seek your thoughts on the other returning ex (not the clever one LOL).

Brief background. We dated for a while during grad school. I never "felt" it with him and that is perhaps the reason I didn't get upset etc. when we drifted apart and he moved to another country for work. That part of my memory of us is frankly, a blank but I think I was already dating someone else seriously when he left. So there were no hard feelings.

So, we had dinner. Which he had said "is on" him in email (already keeping track I see). He looks the same (actually he looks good - as though time had hardly taken its toll), and he said I looked great too. In fact he said that thrice as I recall.

Dinner was pleasant - and he's married with a family. So there were no expectations and I had approached and treated it as such. But it was clear to me he wanted to impress, from the venue, to the food he ordered and even to how he ordered it (speaking in the native language of the server), etc. And he seemed keen - even intent - on telling me what happened after we parted ways, and how he met his wife. I had no interest in that information and merely listened politely without more. He wanted to know if I was dating etc., and more than once tried to tell me to read a book he thought would be interesting/good for me to read. When I pushed back with questions ("why?"), he backed off. He asked and I told him what I was reading, and it was clear he could not relate. All in I think he was surprised and intrigued by the very different me he met that evening.

This obviously cannot and isn't going to go any further, and I have absolutely no interest - but why do you think this man looked me up (googled me), stalked my LinkedIn page, asked me to dinner, only to display his best/perfect self and life, then try to trigger my insecurities (he failed). What's up with these guys? I'm just shaking my head in puzzlement!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 22, 11:48 PM,
This is an interesting insight into a concept I've discussed on this site before - the concept of the Law of Attraction which dictates that "like attracts like:"

"My insecure ex started. . .was so attentive in the beginning, basically over-the-top attentive, to the point where it made me uncomfortable. I told myself it was "cute" that he was so into me, because I could tell he was a little insecure. Admittedly, I also liked all the attention he was giving me at the time. I was at a low point in my life and he was feeding me everything I needed."

This is an example of this concept in action.

You were admittedly at a low point in life, where you "needed" a lot of attention. The end result was attracting an insecure "needy" individual back to yourself.

Been there, done that LOL ;-)

It's one of the reasons why now, when I hit these periods in my life, periods where I know I'm "off" and not quite secure or confident myself. . .I don't date. Because as humans when we're in these periods, our decision making capabilities are also "off" to an extent. Our emotions are being compromised by the current conditions we're in and as a result, we're rendered incapable of utilizing all of the tools required to make wise decisions.

It's one of the reasons why, when I hear women reporting men saying stuff to them like, "I'm just very busy with work right now." Or, "Sorry I haven't called, life is just very hectic right now" -- these men have no business dating at a time like that, if that's indeed the honest truth. When you're too busy to give someone the attention they deserve, or you're too busy to give a dating situation the attention it deserves if it's to have a fighting chance, then you shouldn't be dating. . .because it's not fair to expect others to settle for less than they deserve simply to accommodate you.

No relationship is ever going to have a fighting chance to stand the test of time if one of the individuals involved does not actually HAVE the time to INVEST properly into it.

So when I, myself, find myself in these periods in life (a stressful period in life), I do not attempt to expand my social circle or meet new people or men during that time. Because I could risk meeting a really good man and screwing it up by not investing properly. Or, I could risk accepting a man into my life that's not really an honorable man because I'm so distracted by my current circumstances that I'm rendered incapable of making wise decisions at that moment. Or I could risk meeting the WRONG man for me, because of "negative" attraction -- meaning, the attraction that actually existed was one that was based on negative energy (insecurity attracting insecurity, needy attracting needy, low self esteem attracting low self esteem, etc.)

Either way, the outcome is not good :-(

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So the next time you find yourself in a period like this, it might be best to not attempt to date during it. Because speaking for myself, I've ended up in some of the most horrible relationships I've had, with some of the worst men I've ever met. . .by dating during these periods. Had I met these men when I was strong, I'd have never looked twice at them.

However, because I met them during a period when I was weak so-to-speak, when my emotions and decision making capabilities were compromised by my current circumstances. . .the devil got right through the door :-(

I learned the hard way that every single regrettable relationship I've ever had - was "birthed" during a "weak" period in my life.

"Throughout most of our relationship I was "nice" about all this, because I knew he was a very damaged person and I felt bad for him."

Next time you find yourself prone to wanting to accommodate a "very damaged" individual remember this -- very damaged people should not be dating. They should be working on geting themselves "right" instead, so that they're capable of being one half of a healthy relationship.

Remind yourself that you can't have a healthy relationship with very damaged people.

You can't expect something positive (healthy relationship) to come out of something negative (damaged individual).

"I also felt that he "needed" me, and he would frequently tell me that if I ever left him, he would kill himself."

Next time you hear that from a man - RUN. We were not put on this earth to "fix" broken people. It's not our job, it's not why we were born and damaged individuals have to do the work of fixing themselves if true progress is actually to take place. As women, we tend to want to believe that if we invest this heavily into someone there will be a return on that investment - a big payoff somehow. But the reality is that's never the case and all we end up doing is sacrificing ourselves and our happiness for a vampire that continually sucks the life spirit out of us to the point of complete annihilation.

"What I'm working on now is stopping myself from "feeling bad" for guys who present as insecure or damaged, and swooping in to rescue them. For some reason I do this, and as a result I've attracted a string of more insecure, damaged guys who are incapable of loving me."

And THERE is the SILVER LINING here -- right THERE is the VALUABLE item gained from this experience ;-)

While the entire experience is devastating and hurtful, if you can look past that, you will see that in truth - when people like this enter our lives, we can actually be thankful for them.

They have shown up as a "teacher" of sorts, to bestow a valuable life lesson to us.

Sigh. . .I have so many dip shits to thank for the lessons I've learned LOL ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

People come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. And in cases such as this, it's for a reason (a lesson), and they only stay for a season (long enough to bestow the lesson).

If you're able to look at these situations from that perspective -- it enables you to shed lasting effects and walk away healthy (versus permanently affected and therefore damaged, as they are).

"Thankfully I haven't dated any of them seriously, and I've gotten out soon after I see the signs."

There you go, see how truly valuable this was afterall? You can now rest confident that you will never permit this to happen again :-)

"But the fact is, there's still some kind of draw between that type of guy and myself, and I want to neutralize it so that this never happens again"

If you feel that way, the best way to counteract that is to work on yourself. If you're feeling a draw to this type of an individual, then that means there's "need" that remains that's acting as the binder - the common ground. If you cease dating and you do the work on yourself that's required to replace need with confidence.

When you're confident, you don't "need" from others. Instead, you're able to fulfill your own needs, with or without them.

This is sometimes hard for folks to understand and accept. People tend to think, "But I need to be loved. I need to have sex. I need a man. I need these things."

But the hard truth is -- you don't NEED any of this AT ALL -- you simply WANT it.

It's easy for us to replace the word "want" with "need" without giving much thought to how that word swap changes the game entirely. Feeling we strongly "need" these things in order to be happy and survive somehow makes it all more legitimate for us as humans. But the truth is, we do ourselves no favors when we do that easily.

We don't NEED to be loved by a man in order to survive or be happy. The truth is that we simply WANT that. We don't NEED to have sex in order to survive or be happy. The truth is that we simply WANT that. We don't NEED a man in order to survive or be happy. The truth is that we simply WANT that.

Not having these things doesn't stop us from living. Life goes on without them. And not having these things doesn't stop us from being happy, unless we permit ourselves to believe that without them, we will be unhappy.

A man can ADD to your happiness - but he should not BE your happiness.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

He should not be, or represent, your entire happiness in life. You should already be happy (whole and confident) when you meet someone. If you are, then you attract happy (whole and confident) people back to yourself. And when two happy (whole and confident) people meet, they each ADD to the others happiness. . .kind of like a "bonus" of sorts.

As women, when we place 100% of our happiness into the hands of others, it's a reckless decision. Handing your heart off to someone who can walk to the bridge and toss it into the water below without giving it a second thought.

Think of YOUR heart as something INCREDIBLY VALUABLE and VITAL to your survival - don't place it into someone else's hands. It belongs to YOU, and NOT to them. They can help you fill it with joy, but it's YOUR JOB to SAFEGUARD it. Even when you're in love, you're still the keeper. You can't hand it off to someone else to look after; it belongs to you.

Think of your heart like it's a child -- people can help you care for your child, but it's still your child. Ultimately, it's still your responsibility. No one can ever take your child away from you. Even if physically separated, the bond exists. And that bond cannot be broken by ANY outside forces, unless you, yourself, break that invisible bond.

Because as women, when we're reckless with the care of our own hearts and we do not take responsibility ourselves for looking out for it properly, what tends to happen is -- our world temporarily ceases to exist. We become absorbed into someone else's lives completely until we, ourselves, disappear. When people say, "I need to find myself" this concept is what they're referring to. They've completely disregarded their own happiness and traded it off to instead be 100% focused on SOMEONE ELSE'S happiness. As a result, they stop investing in friendships, they stop investing in activities that make them happy, they stop investing in all the things that brought THEM joy. And now, all of their "investments" are going into someone else's heart - they're investing 100% of themselves into someone else and ignoring their own heart.

So what happens when the person or thing that 100% of yourself is being invested into disappears?

You're left with this HUGE VOID - a gigantic empty space that now exists.

And what happens when your heart has been ignored for months or years on end?

It's left barely beating.

You're standing there with all this stuff in your hands to give to someone else, and no where to place it. You're looking to give all this stuff away to someone else, when the reality is that YOUR OWN HEART needs these things to continue beating.

And it is then that you realize just how unkind, uncaring, and irresponsible you've been with your own heart. And the huge void that's now in your life -- was actually created by your own hands. And you realize that this heavy investment you've made into someone else has led to nothing but your own demise.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Again, been there, done that LOL ;-)

Another lesson I've learned the hard way -- you can't care properly for others if you are not caring for yourself properly. And even when in a committed relationship or a marriage, you have to maintain responsibility. You have to continue investing in yourself at all times. If you do that, you do not create a huge void in your life if anything or anyone in your life happens to disappear.

If you're in a relationship that you're investing 100% of yourself into, when it's gone you have a giant void. If you're in a relationship that's balanced, where there's equal give and take, then there's equal replinishment being had as well. Your heart remains full at all times. When it's not being fulfilled by the relationship, YOU are caring for it and keeping it full in the meantime (with friends, family, enjoyable activities, participation in hobbies, etc.) If you do that, and the situation is balanced, then when someone or something disappears from your life, a gigantic void is not left behind.

Instead, only a small fraction of your happiness has disappeared and the majority of your happiness is still SAFELY intact (friendships, family, enjoyable activities, participation in hobbies, etc.)

Stay solo for a while and repair your heart. It's suffering right now and it needs fulfillment. It needs friends, family, enjoyable activities, participation in hobbies and fulfillment from other sources that most likely have taken a bit of a backseat, or at the very least occupied less of your time temporarily while in this type of relationship.

Because when you're investing so heavily of yourself into someone else - these are the types of things that are the first to be overlooked many times. It may not seem like that, but I suspect that if you dig deep enough and you're honest with yourself, chances are that you'll discover that you were actually sacrificing a LOT for this relationship. . .because as humans, we only have so much of us to invest at any given time into outside sources. And relationships like this tend to occupy most of it. They have a tendency to become "all consuming."

Find yourself again dear -- and you will find your happiness.

And once you find your happiness again, and start filling your heart with happiness from sources other than a romantic relationship, you will be whole once again.

And once you're whole again, you'll be able to confidently stand on your own two feet, with or without a relationship or lover.

And once you're able to stand confident -- you will attract confident individuals that are able to stand on their own two feet right back to yourself.

And it will be THEN that you will meet the RIGHT man for you and become one half of a healthy, balanced, fulfilling relationship :-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Wise Mirror,

I want to ask you about men "going through a divorce". Have been seeing a guy for two years who says he filed for divorce. After a year, he said a settlement was reached and I was thankful at that point things could finally move forward. He really did not move anything forward up to then, talk about future plans or make a whole lot of effort period.

So now I ask how the divorce is going, at the 2 year mark. The man says he is still in the midst of this divorce and his wife is not wanting to settle things. WTF? Why the two different stories? I reminded him of what he said prior about it all being done. He would not clarify things and simply repeated what he already said the first time.

I wonder if I am being deceived or even if he is getting a divorce to begin with? When men tell you two different stories, alarm bells go off. He is also talking to other women and doesn't hide that from me either.


Should I even try to ask more questions, or just dump him? I am not getting any straight answers. Help!


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 23, 9:54 AM,
"why do you think this man looked me up (googled me), stalked my LinkedIn page, asked me to dinner, only to display his best/perfect self and life, then try to trigger my insecurities (he failed)."

It's not uncommon to "catch up" with an ex years later. Sometimes it's for closure, sometimes it's to set things back to right again, sometimes it's curiosity, sometimes it's simply being nice. . .there are many reasons, and the truth is, we'll never know what his are.

Either way, one dinner with a married family man is enough LOL - if he asks you to do this again in the future, the answer should be a big ole' N-O ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 24, 1:26 AM,
"now I ask how the divorce is going, at the 2 year mark. The man says he is still in the midst of this divorce and his wife is not wanting to settle things. WTF? Why the two different stories?"

Most likely because one of them is not true :-(

He either lied the first time, or he's lying now. Once a settlement is reached, it's final. If it was reached a year ago, it's final now. However, if it wasn't reached a year ago and that was just a lie to string you along for another year, well then that signals that something is VERY wrong here.

As in - this man is married typed kinda' wrong :-(

Have you ever been to his home in these two years? In these two years, does he venture out in public with you? Or does he hide you away on dates?

"He is also talking to other women and doesn't hide that from me either."

Well in that case, either way - married or not - it's time to move on.

Two years and no commitment yet? I hate to say this but if there isn't one asked for by a man within the first 6 months, there's never going to be one :-( Two years is MORE THAN ENOUGH to determine if you want to be exclusive with someone or not. If after two years, you do not have that desire. . .then you never will.

And given how suspicious this man is acting about whether or not he's married on top of that - this doesn't bode well. And let's say he's not, let's assume he's single. Even if that's the case - two years and no commitment whatsoever.

Time to move on.

If you don't, he can string you along for two more years. Three more years. And before you know it, you've got four or five good years of your life gone - invested into something that never really becomes real - and you can't get those years back.

Two years investment and no commitment - means it's time to move on.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.

Clever ex and I met for drinks, then dinner, then live music (and more drinks). He was very happy - in fact overjoyed, to see me again. We talked, and had a good dinner, he said he loves me (several times) and it all went so well that he stayed the night. I was a little tipsy and perhaps I should have resisted more. I know, I know. :(

We met again 2 days later as he wanted to introduce some people to me for work purposes. I should say that he has always been very concerned about my work and has gone out of his way to help me with that, to the extent of spending a lot of his time and money to do so. This occasion was no exception - he paid for everything, and it was all good - except later that evening, when he did something that was rather hurtful. I don't wish to go into the details but it was very hurtful. I called him out on that and he replied the next morning with "Talk later." There was no further contact that day. But it was clear to me that he knew what he had done. His response was typical of him "taking cover" when he had done something wrong, which he was always and still is aware of. You're right - men know when they've done something wrong.

Then, the day after that, we had to meet for work purposes again. This meeting had been arranged prior to all this. After that, he wanted to have drinks - and dinner. The dinner was not planned, and I already had another event lined up that evening (to which he was not invited). So he asked if I would join him for dinner after that event, and I agreed. Perhaps I should not have agreed but I think he wanted to soothe things over. While having the drinks earlier, I made it clear that I was very upset and he got defensive. It was a mistake on my part to articulate why I was upset, I suppose, as opposed to going NC again (?!)

Anyway, yesterday, I texted him to thank him for everything, and told him that it was good seeing him again. To which I got 2 texts within the hour asking to meet for "quiet drinks" without "a lecture". I have not responded.

Mirror, I feel totally off balance. I think I need to detach, breathe and find my equilibrium again. Today is better than yesterday (which was totally "off" so I just kept very quiet and did nothing). Perhaps it's those damn chemicals and Mother Nature, as you put it. To be honest, I was totally caught off guard by my own reaction this week, it's not like my usual "post-Mirror"/"post-Argov" self. It's like I threw everything (well, almost) that I have learnt from you and this site out the window this week, by articulating my feelings instead of just pulling back (which I had no problem doing prior). Truth be told, I am feeling rather overwhelmed right now. I am not sure if I am overreacting but I am listening to my gut, and hurt is hurt, right. What do you think? Give him another chance and hear him out?

Thanks as always.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous with Clever Ex, Feb 4, 8:03 PM,
"What do you think? Give him another chance and hear him out?"

Truth be told, I'm having trouble understanding why you're continually putting yourself through this dear. Give him ANOTHER chance? For what - an exact repeat, for the third or fourth time?

You've already given him another chance - and another - and another - and another. The definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results."

So no - I don't think giving him another chance here is the answer.

And I suspect that you keep issuing these chances again and again because secretly, you're expecting this man to change - instead of accepting the reality of who he is.

He's already shown you his character as a man on many occasions. He's failed to prove himself genuine time and again. He's failed to remain consistent and reliable. He's not trustworthy as a result.

What more is there to know to make a final decision about this man, ya' know?

I hate to say this dear, but you're hurting right now - because you permitted him to hurt you - again. Unfortunately, this time you can't blame HIM. It's time to take responsibility for your own actions and accept that it's you that keeps permitting this to happen to yourself - and then adjust your actions accordingly to ensure that it does NOT happen again, ya' know?

If you don't want to be hurt anymore -- YOU have got to change YOUR actions to protect yourself and stop this from happening to you anymore.

And that requires you to 1) accept that this man is never going to change and/or be the man you want him to be 2) cease all communication with him 3) never respond to any communications from him ever again 4) never agree to see him again.

If you do that - you will never have to go through this again.

OR - you can give him yet another chance, and experience yet another repeat.

The choice is yours. You're the only one that can protect yourself.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Mirror, I hear you. I do blame myself to an extent. The logical side of me says to just pull the band aid off quickly, and get it over and done with. Part of me is teetering on doing that, in spite of my love for him. The other side says to just fade off into the ether silently.

It is not as if he is a total jerk/a**hole (which he can be). A long time ago, much earlier on, he had unintentionally said something hurtful and he apologised immediately, repeatedly. And he did apologise for hurting me when we first broke up in August 2014, and for the birthday stunt he pulled in December of that year. His subsequent pranks and stunts were done to reassure himself (as you said insecure men are apt to do), trouble is, he didn't realise just how hurtful some of these could be, in addition to being exhausting (for me). Were these done deliberately, i.e., to wound/hurt? Honestly, I don't know - and it doesn't really matter, does it.

There is also history and context I haven't stated/explained. He has always been there for me in many things, including my family and work - most of all work. It is hard to explain the context but essentially, I would not have survived for the past 4-5 years if it were not for his help and encouragement. And there were some extremely problematic aspects, legacy issues, which only he understood and is in a position to help with. Some of these issues are way beyond me. I know I'm not expressing myself very well and it's difficult to understand this, but the short of it is if anything, he's a good friend who has always shown himself to be reliable and dependable in these areas. During one of my lowest, darkest periods, he was there for me.

So, I am torn. My emotions are in such a state of flux right now that I think I need to do nothing at all.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous, Feb 6, 11:09 PM,
"There is also history and context I haven't stated/explained. He has always been there for me in many things, including my family and work - most of all work. It is hard to explain the context but essentially, I would not have survived for the past 4-5 years if it were not for his help and encouragement."

Well, while that may be the case - it's not a reason to stay in a relationship that's exhausting you, making you unhappy and stressing you out. What happened four or five years ago, happened then. What's important is what's happening now, and whether or not the current situation is fulfilling your needs and making you happy.

Staying with someone because they were good to you years ago, even though they're currently not treating you the same way, isn't a reason to stay.

For instance, say a woman marries a man that's treated her well. And they've been married for four or five years. However, for the past 2 years he's been verbally abusing her, taking her for granted, is emotionally abusive towards her and she's unhappy and sad all the time as a result. The last 2 years have also damaged her confidence and self-esteem as well, so now there's permanent damage being done.

Should she stay with this man for the next 30 years of her life, because he was good to her for the first 3 years of their marriage?

What happened in the past is in the past. And if you concern yourself with someone else's happiness over your own, it's possible to sacrifice your happiness entirely as a result. So as selfish as this may sound - you really do have to focus on YOURSELF, and your OWN happiness, above all others. Because if you do not do that, it can lead you down a path that places you into an unhappy situation for an eternity.

"My emotions are in such a state of flux right now that I think I need to do nothing at all."

Then don't make any moves just yet. Because when you swing from one day, desperately thinking about ways to remove yourself from the situation even to the point of moving out - to the next day suddenly coming up with various reasons to stay that are all based on things that happened years ago and have nothing to do with your current situation. . .that's too wide of a swing to make any definitive moves just yet.

As a result, I wouldn't make any moves until that gap is closed, and you feel confident in the decision you've made. And confident that the decision you've made is actually what's best for your at this time.

Because once you feel confident about the decision you've made, you will suffer a minimal amount of regret, if any at all, once you've taken action on that decision, whatever it may be.

So take plenty of time to think things through logically, process your emotions about the situation and any decisions you may be coming to thoroughly, and then let those decisions ruminate in your mind a bit before taking action. That way, if you decide to stay or go, either way you're not making any moves at all until you're absolutely assured that they're the best ones for you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

Two months ago I dumped a guy (for the third time by the way) I was seeing for close to two years after discovering he was deceiving me. He was keeping me as an option the whole time, while chasing other women. All this time he said we are going to get married and have a future. What a joke! I was humiliated.

I read online about the NC rule and that this is the best way to heal and get over someone. So I implemented it immediately. It also advocates this is a trick to get your ex back, so they will miss and pine away for you – then eventually getting in contact because you’re wondering what they are up to.

I was missing him terribly and contacted him a couple of times to ask how are you. I was not wanting to get back with him, but just ask how he was doing because I am a caring person. A part of me thinks he is really messed up and couldn’t help behave this way.

Do think my contacting him displayed a weakness in me, that I am wishy washy and that I still want him? He never ONCE ever reached out to me first by the way but was always very happy to hear from me and sent long texts. Should I have just shut down my feelings and turned cold on him? Frankly, I find it really hard to do this with anyone in my life, whether we go our separate ways or not.

Do you think I need to get some counselling about this? Help!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Tue, Feb 9, 2:00 AM,
"Do think my contacting him displayed a weakness in me, that I am wishy washy and that I still want him?"

Well, possibly :-( And I say that because there's seems to be a pattern of this with you. You stated, "I dumped a guy (for the third time by the way). . .I was missing him terribly and contacted him a couple of times."

When you accept poor treatment from someone, and/or leave and then return for more of it, the man recognizes that you're willing to "settle" for less than you deserve. And once he recognizes that, his treatment of you can become even worse. Because in his head he's thinking, "She won't leave. I treat her like crap and she never does anything about it. She's not going anywhere, and she's never going to."

And before you know it, the man is taking you for granted. He's taking it for granted that no matter how poorly he treats you - you'll still be there :-(

"He never ONCE ever reached out to me first by the way"

His actions are telling you something dear. The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested is to see if HE pursues HER.

"Should I have just shut down my feelings and turned cold on him?"

You should have processed your feelings to accept that this was not meant to be, he's not the right man for you, he treats you poorly and you deserve better than that. You don't shut your feelings down, you process them. And during that process, you focus on "acceptance" - accepting that this wasn't meant to be and it's over.

And you don't turn cold on him - you just NEVER turn in his direction AT ALL, ever again. You place him in your rearview mirror and you chart a course forward and keep your eyes on the road and the future ahead of you ;-)

Anonymous said...

You forget that many emotionally insecure men are often the ones who had their childhood trashed by the ones you described. To the point of not being able to trust anyone and being unwilling to open up to even their own mother.

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous March 14 - 10:27pm,
This may be so, but that does not give someone a license to harm others. If we are awake enough to understand where our damage comes from, then we are awake enough to seek help to heal from it.
Blaming others for our own behavior is taking the easy way out. It's lazy. It's a victim mentality with an expectation that others are to blame and pay the price for our pain.
Life sucks at times Anonymous. Life is NOT fair and if anyone has ever told you that it is, they lied to you.
We are responsible for our own behavior.

Anonymous said...

Mirror. Been dating a guy for 7 months. He is the very insecure type, shy, quiet and lacking in confidence. Here I come along and shower him with compliments, kisses and affection. Often found it hard to get to know him as he would never offer any personal information beyond the superficial. He wouldn’t ask me much either. Felt at times that I was in love with a ghost.

He regularly texted me loving picture quotes about how two hearts are meant to be together, my love for you grows each day, etc. Naturally I felt he had true feelings for me. Then a friend informed me he is messaging other females online. Not entirely clear to me if he met up with anyone. Now I feel foolish for believing his protestations of love.

How could he have all this love for me and then seek out other women? Is he a complete imposter?

Julia

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Julia,
"How could he have all this love for me and then seek out other women? Is he a complete imposter?"

If all that fluffy talk wasn't backed up by ACTIONS that support it, then yes, it appears he would be a complete imposter :-(

When a man's WORDS do NOT align with his ACTIONS - then something is not right, and the words are not true.

As well, after 7 months of dating, a man that genuinely cares would be sharing emotionally with you, and also making efforts to have you do the same, in order to lead the relationship into more serious territory. If a man is being superficial after 7 months, chances are he's emotionally unavailable. And when someone is emotionally unavailable, it literally means what it says. . .they're unable to invest into you, or the relationship, on an emotional level:

"They're evasive, make excuses, or are just inept when it comes to talking about feelings or the relationship. Some use anger, criticism, or activities to create distance."

A man who makes professions of love will also make big investments into the relationship itself that align with those words. He will lead the relationship towards something serious and genuine. Hish actions will back up his words and he e will want to be with you more, see you more, and ask for more of your time. He will tell you he's in love with you and he will ask you for a commitment (so that no other man can have you).

If a man only talks about all those things, but doesn't actually DO any of them, then his words are not to be taken seriously :-(

Anonymous said...

I love your website.*****LOVE IT******. I always come back to it to reread sections. So much valuable info, and it's so SPOT ON. Thanks Again :)

Anonymous said...

Where do I get the strength to "nip it in the bud" and cut losers loose immediately when they start to show red flags? I very much recognize red flags early on, always (they don't go unnoticed), but I normally choose to give the guy a break, allowing him to try to explain his way out of something I view as negative, all while thinking to myself...he won't win me over anyway, so i'll let him talk, and i'll still remain in control and not forget this negative of his. However, what seems to happen over a short period of time after, is that I end up falling for these losers who I never really even liked (never viewed as up to par/or up to my standards) in the first place, and I end up getting hurt by them. I wish I had the courage?strength, self esteem? to stand with 100% conviction and drop an asshole as soon it's apparent he is one. what am i missing/or need to be able to be more hardcore in protecting myself, like you Mirror. Do I need to be more cold, more self protecting? more confidence? less emotional/less caring for him? This is a serious question, would love your thoughts/input/response. thank you!

Dear ChristinaC said...

Wow amazing article! I recently free'd myself from this type of toxic relationship of almost 3 years! What a mess, but how grateful I am to have experienced it which made me into a stronger and wiser woman!

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous March 14 - 10:27pm and all,
I've been thinking about my last comment here on 3/15. Sometimes I wish I was less direct, and my last comment is one of those instances. So here goes a re-write:

Many have said that mental disorders are not recognized as legitimate medical issues because we can't "see" what is broken like we can see a broken arm or leg.

From Anonymous' comment,"... many emotionally insecure men are often the ones who had their childhood trashed by the ones you described..." we may be able to agree that in this instance, there has been damage done to a child by an adult family member.

Consider that damage to be a fractured arm. Some s.o.b. adult broke a child's arm just because the child was there and available and not able to protect himself.

Let's say the break was taken care of by the child wrapping his arm up himself and not telling anyone how much it hurt. When people saw the bandaged arm, he told them it was just a sprain that he did to himself.

The arm heals, but not perfectly. He never tells anyone what the adult did to him. When it rains, it aches; if he twists it a certain way, it hurts; if someone touches it, he remembers every part of what happened and feels the break like it was yesterday.

Eventually the boy becomes a man and is no longer under the rule of the adult who hurt him. He still deals with his arm issues, not only the physical pain but also the memories that sometimes kick his legs out from under him psychologically.

Does he live with the unhealed arm AND the memories AND the emotional scars by allowing the adult who did it to stay in his thoughts and using the adult's behavior as an excuse to take out his anger on others? "My arm hurts, no one cared about me as a child, so I don't care if I hurt you!"

Or does he say, "That was f'd up! The adult was wrong. I'm going to seek help to get my arm fixed because I am an adult and NOW I CAN, and I am going to seek help to get my psychological/emotional issues fixed because I am an adult and NOW I CAN.

If, as a society, we are going to raise the treatment of mental disorders to the same level of medical care as physical disorders, we not only have to speak of acceptance and recognition for others, we also have to take responsibility for OUR own health by seeking help -- whether for a past broken arm, or for a past we had no control over.

Thank you for the opportunity to try this response again Ms. Mirror.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 25, 9:10 PM,
"Where do I get the strength to "nip it in the bud" and cut losers loose immediately when they start to show red flags?"

The best way to do this is to speak logic to yourself. This means you have to be brutally honest with yourself about the outcome, and the fact that anything negative you may experience as a result of not leaving, will be of your own doing.

So instead of issuing the benefit of doubt and believing that something good will somehow suddenly come out of something negative -- you have to accept that the situation is negative, that nothing positive can come from something negative, and that if you stay, there's a high likelihood you'll be hurt and/or used. And if that happens, it will be the result of YOUR decision to stay.

When you hold that conversation with yourself, and you accept responsibility for your own actions and decisions and the outcome they will likely lead you to. . .it's much easier to say, "No, I'm not putting myself through that."

And it's much easier to walk away then ;-)

"what am i missing/or need to be able to be more hardcore in protecting myself"

Possibly, the part that is missing is the "responsibility" part? Meaning, you accepting responsibility for your own actions and being honest about the fact that it's actually YOU hurting YOURSELF (through your own decision making process)?

In these situations, once a woman accepts that it's her own actions and decisions that are the reason she's getting hurt, it can be VERY eye opening. Being too "nice" is actually NOT a good thing.

"Do I need to be more cold, more self protecting? more confidence? less emotional/less caring for him?"

I think possibly - you may need to be more honest with yourself that it's your own decisions that are placing you into these situations where you end up getting hurt.

When I went through this phase myself many years ago. . .that was a "game changer" for me (to realize I had total control over that ultimately ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA,

I really like your posts.It is really very useful.

MOA what does it mean when guys don't use capital letters in typing?

Do you like to date guys who smoke?Because i usually ignored guys who smoke,maybe it is
not correct doing this ,but i don't really like smokers.What is your opinion about this?

What is your criteria in finding the right guy,if you don't mind me asking? :)

Thanks again MOA and i really appreciate everything from you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Wed, Mar 30, 10:43 AM,
"what does it mean when guys don't use capital letters in typing?"

It doesn't mean anything.

"Do you like to date guys who smoke? Because i usually ignored guys who smoke. . .i don't really like smokers. What is your opinion about this?"

I don't mind dating smokers. Everyone has bad habits, it's somewhat unavoidable.

"What is your criteria in finding the right guy,if you don't mind me asking?"

Reliable, emotionally mature, consistent in behavior and action, trustworthy, compassionate, generous, kind, forgiving and maintains a stable lifestyle, willingness to be a gentleman, not afraid of hard work - has a healthy confidence.

Anonymous said...

Hi Wise Mirror

Dated a guy LD for 9 months, thought I was in love. Discovered he was actually a lier, and dating other women online behind my back. He even had the nerve to email an electronic Valentine Card and keep saying I love you. Suffice it to say I dumped him.

The question I have is: why when you find the prove they are conning you, bring it to their attention - that he doesn't provide an explanation or say sorry? I really believed his text messages that he loved me. Got tired of it being so on and off and started doing some investigating on my own and talking with his friends. One day he was all lovey, the next rather indifferent in tone.

Do not want to trust men ever again after what I went through. Another major concern is that he is seeking out other victims and dishing out the same virtual "crap" to them. Sweet talking, then coming around to see you for sex every now and then.

How can I warn other women out there that he is a fake?. It is very damaging to our emotions. The only good thing that came out of this was that in future I will be able to spot a "player" in a heartbeat and never get involved with such a creep again, no matter how charming he is.

Thank you. andrea

Anonymous said...

Hello, this may seem like a dumb question, but how does a woman build self esteem? Every single guy I date or come across literally is out to get me, predatory style, purely for their own benefit. They want to TAKE from me. It's exhausting. I always end up feeling used by men, and feel like no man actually ever truly cares about me. I don't understand it. Everything I read about men and dating is about the woman "having a life" and "teaching him how to treat you". But when it comes down to it, one can have a full life and still really want to share it with a significant other, I don't see that as being needy or not having a life. Also, if a woman has to "teach" a man how to treat her, to me that sounds like a child, that sounds like a criminal attempting to take advantage of a situation over and over again, and having to be corrected and guided by a woman on how to properly act, no thank you. Am i wrong here? I guess i'm just really feeling down and out and ready to give up on dating and men altogether. It doesn't seem worth it honestly. Men are always after sex, no matter what type of charade they present to a woman.
My issues always comes back to, why I am attracted to and chase jerks who clearly show me that they have no respect or care for me. I attract emotionally/verbally abusive men, or at least those are the type of men I "fall for". I keep asking myself what is it about me that I keep doing this to myself over and over again. On some level I must enjoy pain, heartache, and being used, or believe I am unworthy of a good guy on some level. Most good guys are boring to me, as ridiculous as that sounds. I suppose I am emotionally unavailable myself on some level. I guess I need to figure myself out and face reality? :( what would u suggest about my above mentioned problems? I always come out as a the "loser" in my dealings with badboys. I never win. Any tips/input is appreciated, Thanks Mirror

Lottie said...

@Gem,

I have been meaning to write when I saw your note.
It was very poignant and really hit home for me.

"Many have said that mental disorders are not recognized as legitimate medical issues because we can't "see" what is broken like we can see a broken arm or leg."

Yes I second that. You are spot on with your analysis.
Unfortunately there are scars and they need healing like any other external scar and we all have them.

"If, as a society, we are going to raise the treatment of mental disorders to the same level of medical care as physical disorders, we not only have to speak of acceptance and recognition for others, we also have to take responsibility for OUR own health by seeking help -- whether for a past broken arm, or for a past we had no control over."

Yes - absolutely.
I don't think I have shared this on here before, but I am about 1/3 of the way through the first year of course in this profession. Having gone through this years ago and the transformation & healing that took place in myself I most certainly know the benefits of it.

We don't talk about it and when we do there is almost a stigma attached. People aren't aware.

I don't know if I will make it to the end of 4 years [it is part time] but it seems like a mountain for me and to think I might actually be able to help people seems unfathomable right now.

Well written Gem.
Lottie x

Lottie said...

@Ms Mirror/Ladies. Hope you are all well.
It's my birthday tomorrow. Always time to take stock of life.

I have not dated for about 7-8 months now. I came off internet dating and made no active attempt to "date". Which is quite bizarre, but I really didn't want to.
I just enjoyed my life and tried to be the most I can be. I have been very happy.

Anyway on a slightly glum note. I have had 2 guys contact me recently.

One from back in 2014, where we had corresponded briefly through email. I sensed back then he seemed a little angry [we only emailed] however there were some tones I picked up in his email. He was also recently divorced I believe. The conversation fizzled out.

However, he contacted me through email a few days ago. They are 1 - 2 lines at the most. I have been polite, however I have reciprocated in the same manner. He sent me his number in the email. "my mobile number btw" Period.

I didn't reciprocate. He said it was great to "talk after so long". I said it probably didn't "classify as talking though"

He said "spot on, what are you suggesting".
I rolled my eyes and thought it's not rocket science. You are a grown educated man.

Another - who contacted me several days ago. He had been given my number by someone. I am of Eastern origin so there is always a network of aunts busying themselves with this sort of thing.

I got a text from a chap introducing himself. We have conversed briefly over text, although it's been a struggle. I believe that is just the nature of communication through technology.

I had told him - I wasn't that good with texts and if he wanted to chat it would be good to know more about him. He sent me 4 lines about what he did and what his interests are.

Ms mirror, is it a crime to just want a guy to pick up the phone and talk? Am I asking too much?
I know the guys that have done it and even though things didn't work out we had a lovely time.

It just says a lot for me when a guy wants to call me. It shows he is not afraid and there is a maturity about him.

Anyway onwards and keeping smile. I am actually very happy right. A lot going on and I just keep practise being myself.

I still believe in these words I came across a few months ago from the poet Rumi

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”

I thought I have done.
Take care everyone.
Lottie x

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 1, 8:31 PM,
"how does a woman build self esteem?"

By recognizing her VALUE as a human being.

Your value as a human being is not determined by the value men place on you. Your value as a human being exists, with or without men. And as a human being, we all have valuable things about ourselves. We all bring value to our families, our friendships, our careers, etc.

So think about what it is that people (not men) value you for? Do they value your mind? Do they value your opinion? Do they value your usefulness? Do they value your presence?Do they value your insight? Do they value your assistance? Do they value your caretaking abilities? Do they value your carefree attitude? Do they value the energy you bring to a room or a group of people?

If you're unsure about what others see as valuable about you - ask them. Ask your friends. Play a game that will not only help you, but others as well. Next time you're with a group of people (friends, family, work associates, etc.) say, "Hey, let's play a little game! Let's go around the room, picking one person at a time, and then everyone in the room has to say one nice thing about the person that they love and value about them."

And then you start, one by one. You identify one person, and then all other individuals have to say the one thing that they absolutely love about this person.

By the end of that game, you will be able to perceive yourself as others perceive you, and you will know what it is that they value about you. And once you see how valuable you are to them, and once you see how subtle the things are that they value about you. . .you will realize that men have very little to do with your value as a human being. And that it's not always great, extraordinary things that make use valuable to others ;-)

"They want to TAKE from me. It's exhausting. I always end up feeling used by men, and feel like no man actually ever truly cares about me."

But they can only use you if you GIVE freely. And when it comes to giving, you should not be doing so for anyone that isn't doing the same for you. If you're giving more than the other individual in the relationship is giving, then you're setting yourself up to be hurt and used :-(

However, if you do not give until, or unless, someone else is giving to you -- then they cannot hurt you or use you. Give and take is reciprocal and not one-sided. And trust is EARNED, not given freely.

"Everything I read about men and dating is about the woman "having a life" and "teaching him how to treat you."

That's most likely because women give, give, give and "do, do, do" much like an appliance, without ever realizing that all that leads you to. . .is being taken advantage of by others. When you are too nice, too accommodating, too eager, too willing, and too pliable -- it tends to invite poor treatment from others :-(

So people gear these things towards women, because women are the ones guilty of behaving like that.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Women are the ones who tend to make their entire world about a man (i.e. giving up their own personal life after settling down with a man - hence, no longer "having a life" of their own and losing themselves in a man). Women are the ones that are more easily "guilted" into "do, do, doing" for others (i.e. placing a lower value on themselves and sacrificing their own happiness in order to make others happy - hence, accepting poor treatment, thus making it necessary to "teach a man how to treat you" -- because we tend to settle for poor treatment moreso than men).

"one can have a full life and still really want to share it with a significant other, I don't see that as being needy or not having a life."

It becomes "needy" when you begin to design your entire life, and your entire value as a human being, around men or a man. Because it signals that the woman is willing to LOWER HER PERCEIVED VALUE in order to win the affections of a man.

For instance, a confident woman that really wants a significant other will NOT design her entire life around a man in order to get it. Instead, she will stand strong and wait for the RIGHT man to come along, even if it means many lonely nights doing so.

However, an insecure woman that really wants a significant other WILL design her entire life around a man in order to get it. If he doesn't like her friends, she'll distance herself from them. If he doesn't want her dressing sexy, she won't anymore. If he doesn't want her working, she may quit her job. And she won't be willing to spend lonely nights waiting for the RIGHT man to come along. Instead, she'll "do, do, do" for ANY man that comes along, so she doesn't have to be alone. This means that she'll SETTLE for ANY man, instead of standing strong waiting patiently for the RIGHT man to come along.

As you can see, there are vast differences here in how a confident women conducts herself when dating versus how an insecure woman conducts herself when dating. The confident woman has a WANT (desire), but does not have a NEED (that makes her settle). The insecure woman meshes her WANTS WITH HER NEEDS (which causes her to settle for less than she deserves). And when men sense insecurity and need in a woman, they know she'll tolerate poor treatment just to be with a man.

As a result, many authors focus on the woman -- because SHE is the one more apt to quickly sell herself short and settle for less than she deserves. When men aren't happy in a relationship, or they're with someone who isn't making them happy. . .they don't tend to stick around talking and talking and hoping it'll work out. They leave and remove themselves from the situation. Women however, have more of a tendency to issue the benefit of doubt to those who aren't deserving of it and make excuses for the poor treatment and stick around to talk endlessly in an effort to make it work.

As much as I hate to say this, women are much more apt to settle for less than they deserve than men are :-(

Which is why a lot of the dating advice is geared towards them. Think about it. How many women do you know that are tolerating poor treatment in a relationship or marriage compared to men you know that are doing the same exact thing? How many men stay in marriages and relationships where they know the woman is cheating? Not many. Their ego cannot let them live with that. But how many women stay in marriages and relationships where they know the man is cheating? A hell of a lot more than men. They make excuses, the issue the benefit of doubt, and they "do, do, do" even MORE to make it work.

The number of women tolerating shit treatment and hanging onto bad marriages and relationships is MUCH higher than the number of men doing the same :-(

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And I believe this is a societal issue. As women, we are raised under the false impression that. . .if you're nice, if you smile a lot, if you're helpful and you "do, do, do" for others much like an appliance, you will receive love in return for that sacrifice.

When in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

The more you "do, do, do" for others, the more they take it for granted that you'll stay -- no matter how they treat you. Because they sense that as a woman doing that, you're basing your value as a human being on how useful THEY find you to be to them. Appliances are useful. My washing machine is useful. It "does, does, does" for me every time I need it to. It's reliable. It performs the task. It's consistent.

But I do not give my washing machine love in return for all it's usefulness to me.

"if a woman has to "teach" a man how to treat her, to me that sounds like a child, that sounds like a criminal attempting to take advantage of a situation over and over again, and having to be corrected and guided by a woman on how to properly act, no thank you. Am i wrong here?"

Well, you can't "teach" anyone how to behave necessarily. What that really means is that you have to SHOW a man how you EXPECT to be treated. And this means that when you're treated poorly, the man is not rewarded with more of your time and attention for it. Because if a man treats you poorly and you accept that poor treatment, all you're doing is signaling to the man that -- if he wants to make progress with you and receive your attention, all he has to do is push your buttons and treat you like crap to reassure himself that you care about him.

I'll use the confident women versus the insecure woman again as an example. If a man stands a confident woman up for a date, she does not date him ever again. She makes no excuses for his behavior. Instead, she holds the man ACCOUNTABLE for his behavior and forces him to experience the CONSEQUENCE of that poor treatment instead. (No more access to her.)

As well, if a man expects a confident woman to be available to him for last minute date requests (he calls Friday afternoon for a Friday night date), she does NOT accomodate that type of disrespectful treatment of her time. Instead, she signals to the man that her time is valuable as well, and that others wants portions of it too. . .and she does not make herself available for, or accept, last minute date requests from the man. Instead she says, "I would've loved to join you, however, I didn't hear from you and made other obligations instead."

These responses/reactions tell the man that this particular woman -- will NOT lower her VALUE as a woman to accept poor treatment. And that if he wants to see her, he has to treat her, and her time, respectfully.

Lesson learned for the man? This woman will not settle for improper treatment. She's a confident woman with other existing options and as a result, her VALUE is high.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Now let's look at how an insecure woman would handle the same exact situations. If a man stands an insecure woman up for a date, she'll accept whatever excuse he throws at her and she'll continue to date him. Why? Because her "need" forces her to accept poor treatment. The "need" to have a man and not be alone is much greater than her confidence level. She's afraid to be alone, therefore, her confidence is low and she believes she may not meet another man to date. So she hangs onto the man for dear life, tolerates poor treatment, and settles for less than she deserves. And then she takes it even a step futher. Not only does she tolerate poor treatment and accept excuses for it and fails to hold the man responsible for his own behavior - instead, she looks to HERSELF as the cause. She holds HERSELF responsible for the way the man is treating her. She starts to say to herself, "Am I not good enough? Am I not attractive enough?" Instead of asking herself what's wrong with this man, she asks herself what's wrong with ME?

Not only does she begin to view herself as the cause for the mans behavior, she goes a step further and begins to design her future behavior around the man, in an attempt to prove herself WORTHY of his attention. She starts to try harder. She starts to "do" more for the man. She starts to jump through hoops for him. She starts waiting around for his calls, and stops living her life in the process. She chooses not to go out with friends that Friday because this man MIGHT call her and ask for a date, and she's going to wait around all night long for that call -- and if it comes at 10PM as a last minute date request for a booty call, she's going to drop everything for it and go. Not only is she going to drop everything, SHE is going to go to the MAN at 10PM at night, much like he ordered a pizza and has it show up at his door.

If a man senses he can order a woman up at the last minute like a pizza delivery and she'll drop everything to accommodate him becasue she's been waiting all week for this. . .game on. You can expect disrespectful, improper treatment from that day forward.

Why?

Because the man senses that the woman DOES NOT VALUE HERSELF and as a result, HE will NOT VALUE her either.

People will only treat you as well as you treat yourself. Hence lots of dating advice geared towards women along the lines of "teach a man how to treat you."

What that really means is that if you don't value yourself as a real "prize" - no man is going to view you as a real "win."

And this is geared towards women because. . .when's the last time you read about a man complaining he was being used for a booty call? How many stories do you hear or read of women ringing a man up late at night asking for a booty call? And when you DO hear those stories about women behaving like that, what's the first thing you think about the woman?

DESPERATE. She's desperate. So desperate that she's offering herself up for sex on a platter and chasing men down, throwing herself at them. She's insecure. She's afraid to be alone. The man doesn't have to be special, any man will do -- just so long as SOME male attention, ANY male attention, is being received to make her feel valuable. Is that admirable? Is that how women aspire to be viewed? Is that something that makes you RESPECT that woman more?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Men are always after sex, no matter what type of charade they present to a woman."

Of course they are dear - that's how Mother Nature has wired them biologically. . .to ensure perpetuation of the species ;-) And as a woman, it's your job to only mate with those that are WORTHY. Those that PROVE themselves GENUINELY interested through ACTION, not a bunch of flowerly WORDS.

In nature, it's a PRIVILEGE for a male to mate -- not a right.

Male deer, elk, lions, etc. are ALL required to PROVE themselves WORTHY of mating rights through ACTION. They have to be male enough to step forward in the pack and take on another male fighting for the same privilege of mating in a fight. They are forced to be confident and take ACTION in order to even be CONSIDERED as a potential mate by females.

Males in Mother Nature that lack confidence and are insecure and unwilling to take action like that -- do NOT mate.

Females will NOT have them. Because what female wants to mate and bear offspring to a male that lacks confidence, is insecure and unwilling to take action? What's impressive about that? Only the strong survive in nature. And only the strong EARN the right to mate.

So as a woman when dating, if a man does NOT take ACTION, and does NOT treat you with respect, and does NOT value you or your attention - he does NOT get to mate with you. Period - case closed. Because let's face it, when a woman mates with a man she places herself at risk. Risk of creating offspring. And again, what woman wants to create offspring with a man that lacks the confidence and willingness to take action to help support them?

When dating, you have to take responsibility for your own actions.

You can only get used when you permit yourself to be used. And the only way a woman can get used by men who are scoundrels, is if she fails to "qualify" the man as WORTHY in the first place. (By forcing him to PROVE himself worthy through ACTION, and not just a bunch of flowery talk, before rewarding him with sex.)

"why I am attracted to and chase jerks who clearly show me that they have no respect or care for me."

Do you possibly have an emotional attachment disorder? Watch this video, "Why We Love Bad Boys:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs5KpdlA_L8

"I attract emotionally/verbally abusive men, or at least those are the type of men I "fall for"."

I hate to say this, but if I'm to help you I have no choice. . .that stems from insecurity and co-dependence. Emotionally/verbally abusive men "trigger" insecure women to. . .well, to become insecure. They withhold in order to bring those insecurities to the surface because they know once the woman is feeling very insecure, she'll chase and "do, do, do" to prove herself WORTHY. And this is an attractive arrangement for insecure women because it gives them the opportunity to receive VALIDATION from the man. Meaning, the woman secretly believes that if she wins this hard-to-win man over. . .she's suddenly VALUABLE.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And the situation is co-dependent in that, the womans worth is DEPENDENT on the man's VALIDATION of her as a woman.

The woman bases her worth on the validation of a man. So she "needs" the man to validate her as a woman, to make her feel worthy and valuable as one. Without the man, the woman feels valueless. So the "need" for a man exists and usually takes precedence over whether or not the man treats her right or is even a man worthy of her attention.

And that "need" is what makes a woman stick around in a bad relationship and tolerate poor treatment and settle for less than she deserves :-(

"I keep asking myself what is it about me that I keep doing this to myself over and over again."

You're basing your value as a woman and a human being entirely on how men perceive you. And I believe that deep down, you know this. Which is why you began this entire conversation with this question, "how does a woman build self esteem?" You sense that it's your self-esteem that's causing you to experience poor treatment from men.

"On some level I must enjoy pain, heartache, and being used, or believe I am unworthy of a good guy on some level."

BINGO - "believe I am unworthy." That's it, right there. You don't feel you deserve better, which is what causes you to settle for less.

"Most good guys are boring to me, as ridiculous as that sounds."

That's because the drama that validates you doesn't exist with them. A bad guy creates drama, you get to then begin proving yourself as worthy to him, and this makes you feel better. Whereas a good guy doesn't create the drama that gives you the opportunity to prove yourself worthy to them. It's creating a co-dependent situation -- you depend on a man to create opportunities for you to prove yourself worthy to them.

When the reality is that YOU ARE ALREADY GOOD ENOUGH, and these games and drama don't even need to exist in the first place.

"I guess I need to figure myself out and face reality?"

NOW do you see why most dating advice is geared towards women?

When we're brutally honest with ourselves, we begin to realize that WE are responsible for the poor treatment we've permitted ourselves to experience :-( These men can only get away with this stuff because we LET them get away with it. And we let them get away with it because we don't value ourselves, we are insecure, and our "needs" outweigh our confidence.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"I always come out as a the "loser" in my dealings with badboys."

Dating bad boys is ALWAYS a losing situation dear. You know why? Because bad boys ARE INSECURE AS WELL. Like attracts like - similar energies are drawn towards one another magnetically via the Law of Attraction. So when an insecure woman meets an insecure man it can feel energizing - because you're both vibing the same energy. . .that of insecurity. That's the common ground. The bad boy secretly feels bad about himself, which is why he resorts to game playing to win a woman over. . .because he doesn't feel he has the social skills to do it the right way.

And once he triggers the insecure woman's insecurities to fire-up full scale, she chases him and tries to "do, do, do" to prove herself worthy -- which makes an insecure man feel like king of the world.

Again, co-dependency. The insecure woman is dependent on the man to receive validation from him to make her feel worthy as a woman. And the insecure man is dependent on the insecure woman to receive validation from her to make him feel worthy as a man.

"Any tips/input is appreciated"

I'm going to sound like lots of these other authors you're talking about here LOL -- change starts WITH YOU dear.

If you want men to change the way they're treating you, then you have to change the way you're interacting with men. If you want to date stable men that don't play emotional games, then you need to be a stable woman that doesn't respond to them. . .because like attracts like. If that's the type of man you want to date, then you need to become that type of woman to date so that your energy attracts similar energy right back to you ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Lottie
Happy birthday to you! Good to hear you are enjoying your life as it is, just continue doing it no matter what men do or don´t do:-).

@Mirror and Anonymous April 1, 8:30 PM
Mirror, as usual, I like your advice very much. After several years of reading your blog I can say I have internalized most of the information you provide. Like many women here (and not only here) I have struggled similarly to Anonymous. Now, after years of struggling and educating myself I have reached simple conclusions: 1) I rely on myself and only myself. I don´t expect anything from any man. If he is interested in me, okay, if he isn´t, also okay (not as okay as in the former case but still okayLOL); 2) Based on my dating experience (mainly online) I have reached the point when I give men just one chance. Only one. If a man misbehaves and hurts me in the initial phase of getting to know me without any further regret or apology, I am moving on (whether I like him or not, whether I think he might be the right one for me or not, whether I think I will never have another similar option or not). Thus I can avoid a lot of insecurity, self-analysing, self-blaming, self-esteem sacrificing, self-doubting, etc. and use my energy for things which are beneficial to me. I just move on without thinking what went wrong, why he behaved that way, etc. It´s very simple. I believe some women do it naturally throughout their life. As for me, it has taken me literally decades to come to this point and it feels a m a z i n g. Absolutely fantastic. You know that only 1 -2 years ago I gave another and another and yet another chance to the cyclist I wrote about (not to mention a number of chances I gave other men in the past). I am not going to do it any more. And I don´t mean it in a negative way. E.g. with the aries chess player I wrote about most recently (who actually helped me to put this intention fully in practice) I am still nice and friendly although he played with my feelings but I know that after all his foolish behaviour even if theoretically I learned he was single and interested, I would refuse him not out of malice or revenge but simply because my peaceful and pleasant life is more precious to me than any man in the world who will confuse and imbalance me. As I said, it took me years and a lot of exhausting experience with men and dating to reach this point but other women with all this information can perhaps achieve this feeling of freedom more quickly. Of course, I am still practising but overall, I feel my (emotional) life is fully in my hands now. And it doesn´t mean I don´ t feel at all sad or frustrated over my dating experience but despite these feelings I feel much more powerful and overall happier than ever before. So it is possible to change and it is worth the effort. Step by step and life will change for the better.:-)

I wish you all the best,
Hopeful





Anonymous said...

Started seeing a guy 6 weeks ago. He says I am sexy, beautiful, I am his future soul mate, we will be married one day, and he is becoming more sure he has found the one, etc. What bugs me is we don’t spend that much real time together, it is mostly texting. He is very fond of talking dirty and shows up frequently by text in afternoon while I am working - saying he wants to get under my desk and remove my panties & it goes on from there. What a pig! I am getting irritated and don’t reply back to those messages.

How can a guy start talking about you being his wife when we have not developed a long term relationship? Is he blowing smoke up my butt? I have not even met his family yet!

He also disappears regularly for 2 days after showering me with attention for a day or so. I text him during that time and either get a reply 8 hours later or sometimes the next day. Sometimes too he will just drop off the conversations without explanation and reappear at 9pm or 10pm. When I bring up the inconsistencies he says he has been working 16 hour shifts or sleeping.

As well at times I get weird texts from him. Like - his mouth is really sore and he wants a candy to suck. Or “hey sweetie, did you buy a boat to get home”. I have not been away so this is strange. Another – “honey, did you get your reports done”. Then a few seconds later – “don’t know where reports came from, LOL”. I do NOT handle any reports at my office.

I am at my wits end trying to figure him out.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 3, 9:44 PM,
"How can a guy start talking about you being his wife when we have not developed a long term relationship?"

It's all just a bunch of WORDS meant to aid you into believing in the false illusion that he's selling you. If he can get you to believe in that illusion, he can pretty much get you to believe in anything -- and he KNOWS this.

That's how he gets his way with women without really having to DO anything (take any ACTION) except blow a bunch of hot air and flowery talk out his mouth. Talk, talk, talk. . .no ACTION.

When a man's words do NOT align with his actions, it's a big red flag (that there's a lie somewhere).

"He also disappears regularly for 2 days after showering me with attention for a day or so."

Game playing - all game playing.

"As well at times I get weird texts from him"

Another big red flag. He's either playing more games, or I believe most likely texting a LOT of other women and getting his wires crossed.

Men who "e-maintain" a lot of women via devices and text and email eventually trip up at this. They're talking to so many women that eventually they're bound to send you a text meant for another one. And some even do it on purpose to get a reaction out of you.

This guy is real trouble dear. I'd cease speaking to him ASAP. You're not enjoying dating him, so there's no real reason to stay anyway.

Anonymous said...

MY BF of just over a year and I were in love, or so I thought.

Just found out that he has some user names and profiles on 3 sleazy sex sites. Put a user name that I am familiar with through a Google search and WOW I could not believe what I saw!. One site is all porn and sex chat lines. There have been times when he hasn't answered my text or calls. Now I know why! I also want to get checked for STD in case he has been sleeping with these women.

My question - should I tell him what I found and let him explain? What possible could reason could he give? Frankly, this is disgusting. Maybe I am just a prude.

I am about to throw up. Your advice would be appreciated.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Fri, Apr 8, 2:18 AM,
"should I tell him what I found and let him explain?"

You can - however, you're not likely going to get the truth in response :-(

If these were just some straight porn sites, well, you know. . .boys will be boys. And what they do in their spare time alone at home is not something we girls really necessarily need to know LOL.

But - these are "porn and sex chat lines."

That's an entirely different story if you ask me. It's one thing to look. It's another to be able to talk and possibly touch in a meet up. And if that's what's taking place, he's likely never going to admit that openly and honestly.

"What possible could reason could he give?"

Well, he'll tell you it's something men do. He'll tell you men like to look. He'll tell you that this is for his own personal pleasure by himself at home. He'll minimize it and make it all sound rather innocent, much like reading a porn magazine.

But that's not what this is.

Chat lines are for talking. And many are for meeting. And if you're not meeting, in a lot of them you can talk to the woman and then view her online in real time. To me that's a hell of a lot different than viewing a porn mag or watching a video. To me, that's personal one-on-one interaction and it can interfere with relationships.

A lot of men these days form the baseline for their sexuality from porn. And by that I mean that they begin to confuse porn with real life. They think women really act like that on a daily basis in their own sex lives, and then they begin to expect their girlfriends to behave like porn stars in over-the-top performances all the time. And they eventually need to take things to higher and higher levels to even experience pleasure.

Porn is not real life - it's Hollywood.

It's a huge Hollywood ENTERTAINMENT industry. Sure, people are freaks in their own personal sex lives, but not to the level that takes place in porn all the time, and not on a daily basis. A woman should not have to act like a Hollywood porn actress to receive love and attention -- because it lacks intimacy. And intimacy is the glue that bonds relationships together.

The hard truth is that you're probably not going to be able to move past this I imagine. And it's not really even about the porn or the sex chats or possible meetings, it's about TRUST.

He's broken your trust. And now it's going to be extremely difficult for you to feel secure in this relationship :-(

If it were me, I'd probably end the relationship and cease dating him for the time being. And my reason for doing that would be lack of trust (not porn). I'd simply explain that I no longer trust him and because of that, I can no longer date him.

And then I'd take some time to myself to see how I feel about the entire ordeal. I wouldn't pressure myself to give him the benefit of doubt. I wouldn't pressure myself to stay with him. And I wouldn't pressure myself to move past this. Instead, I'd take time alone to deal with all these newly created feelings and emotions and I'd attempt to work through them. If I reached a point where I felt I could honestly move past it and build trust with him again, then at that time I'd consider reconciling. But I would not do any of this while dating him because I wouldn't want to be influenced by him during this period.

I wouldn't want to made to feel like I'm overreacting or crazy. I wouldn't want to be made to feel bad about myself. I wouldn't want to have my feelings ignored and minimized or dismissed. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to date a man I didn't trust and no longer felt secure with.

Anonymous said...

Hi,
Thank you so much your articles. These are things mothers should teach their daughters but unfortunately mine was insecure. I made a small donation as a token of my thanks.
Dee

Anonymous said...

This article is littered with sweeping generalizations.

Anonymous said...

Also, it seems to me, while on the subject of insecurities, that someone who has to approve posts before allowing their visibility, might be suffering from the very same dilemma. After all, the insecure are mortified of constructive criticism.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous April 20, 2:45PM,
In case you haven't caught on to what takes place on this site yet - I have to wait to approve reader comments. . .because I respond to just about each and every single one of them.

If I let them approve all day long the minute they're posted - I would never be able to track them provide responses to each and every one.

This enables me to provide BOTH the comment AND the response to readers - at the same exact moment.

If you think I fear your criticism. . .you have obviously not spent enough time on this site.

Anonymous said...

Been with my BF for about 4 months and things are going good. I was at his place two days ago. While he was in the shower I decided to use his computer for some online banking chores. After that was done, I happy to notice his email accounts and saw some from a dating site (where we met actually).

Anyway, I was a bit shocked as we are exclusive. After looking around a bit, I came to the conclusion he has been placing fake "female" couple ads (2) and answering the emails. These ads advertise for another couple to "play" and "experiment". I don't see a lot of emails but it really shook me up and I did not understand why in heavens he would do it.

Afterwards, I asked him what this was all about. He said he placed them for "entertainment" and did not meet anyone, just messaged back and forth a bit. He wanted to see what kind of responses he would get. By the way, we have NEVER agreed or even discussed getting together sexually with another couple.

I am wondering if this is normal behavior. It does not seem like it to me. Feel like I have to go into full suspicious mode and ask myself - what else is he doing?

Should I dump him? Help! Amanda

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Amanda,
" he has been placing fake "female" couple ads (2) and answering the emails. These ads advertise for another couple to "play" and "experiment". . .He said he placed them for "entertainment". . .Should I dump him?"

I would. Regardless of whether it's for entertainment or not (which, by the way, I do NOT believe at all), the simple fact of the matter is that this man is behaving in deceitful ways. And by not being honest with you about it, he's betraying your trust.

And trust is the foundation that healthy relationships are built upon - when that trust is broken, there's a crack in the foundation and the relationship standing upon it can then fall prey to crumbling down.

If you're dating a man that makes you feel bad, causes you anxiety and worry, and you simply are not getting anything positive out of it anymore - it's time to move on dear, before damage is done to your self-esteem and confidence :-(

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror:

My problem is my BF seems to be suspicious of me for no reason at all. He keeps asking where I have been, what I have been doing and who I was out with at night. He has been upset that I have not answered his text until the next morning. We have been going out for almost 3 months.

Why can't I have a life outside him? What is all this about? I have done nothing wrong and I don't see other men. I just go out with girlfriends or co-workers.

I am getting really stressed out and afraid he may start coming over here to check up on me.

Help!

Samantha

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Samantha,
"my BF seems to be suspicious of me for no reason at all. . .Why can't I have a life outside him? What is all this about?"

He's insecure dear. And the definition of insecure is, "not confident or assured; uncertain and anxious."

And as this article explains, dating an insecure individual (man or woman), is NOT an enjoyable experience at all. They're behavior is unpredictable and driven heavily by emotion rather than logic. And when someone's emotions are that of fear, worry and self-doubt - this manifests in their behavior as heightened anxiety, emotional instability, jealousy, anger, suspicion, and heavy "need," etc.

Dating a deeply insecure individual is exhausting and mentally draining. Because their hefty emotional needs for constant attention and reassurance are very taxing on your own mental and emotional well being :-(

Anonymous said...

I recently dated an insecure man through my church group. At first I thought it was God's gift to me for finally letting a righteous man with great heart and caring for others into my life. For that reason I ignore a lot of the warning signs despite the fact that I already know he has a lot of insecurities in him (he's a high school drop out who is self employ and lives with his mother and close to 40)...Needless to say our relationship was a disaster and he was inconsistent, flaky and neglect all my emotional needs...He's also flirting and texting other girls while out with me...

One final draw I have decided to end this. I told him that he had really hurt me and his behaviors are questionable. He just pretend he didn't know what he did and never acknowledge my feelings. I have a feeling he has already moved on to the next "victim". The only thing I can do now is to keep a distance from him (since we still have a big group of mutual friends together and they mean a lot to me)...However upon reading this I will avoid him at all cost...I will never let him suck my energy out again.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA!

I been reading and i can totally relate my story to a few of the comments here. Particularly from the story of this dear anonymous below:

"My insecure ex started out as a dream and ended up as a nightmare. He was so attentive in the beginning, basically over-the-top attentive, to the point where it made me uncomfortable. But I told myself it was "cute" that he was so into me, because I could tell he was a little insecure. Admittedly, I also liked all the attention he was giving me at the time. I was at a low point in my life and he was feeding me everything I needed. "

My ex bf dumped me 1 month ago. We were in long distance for almost 1.5 years. He dumped me after I had just visited him in europe for 2 weeks after I came back to my country. When i got back, we still had our constant skype calls and messaging regularly but i felt he had changed. Also we were constantly fighting after and i realized that he took it very personal of everything I said, to the point I got so frustrated with us because I felt exhausted emotionally and every energy of mine was sucking dry. So he asked for a breakup one morning after I had a discussion with him about my plan to pursue study and i was voicing out my opinion that I needed his support in it and all of a sudden he exploded saying that he felt that I have been blaming him everything. He said that he can't keep up with my insecurities and he has been waiting for me for so long to change my character/attitude as we have been constantly fighting. He said hurtful words like "oh you can'T take in constructive criticisms and you just like other people to pity you"

I was speechless to hear that from him. And of course, as how other girls would react, I begged and pleaded to give me another chance but he said "i dont want to be in a relationship with you anymore. I don't need/want you. Move on. Don't wait for me.. I'm not happy with you. I'm just sick and tired of the fights.just let me go"
One week after the break up, he texted me with "hey, i felt that there are still things to discuss but im not sure what it is.. How are you coping with this breakup? Do you still feel thr same?" So i replied him and we skyped for a bit and in the end, he just wanted to tell me that "i just want us to be on the same page and i dont consider taking you back in..eventhough we are no longer tgt but i still care for you as a friend and i wsnt to help you to move on from this breakup.."

When ai think about all these trying to let it sink in me to process, I felt that I was with a dangerous boy. All of a sudden I felt I don't know who I've been with...

Do you think this person will re-appear?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 17, 10:59 AM,
"Do you think this person will re-appear?"

I sure hope not.

While I can understand he may have had a need for a break, and I can understand that he may have been frustrated and wanted to distance himself to process his emotions. . .I can NOT understand his behavior after the breakup.

I can honestly say that I've never had a man break up with me. . .and then circle back around offering "help" to me so I can move past it. Like as if I simply cannot cope with life without him, so he's forced to swoop back in to save me from myself and the terrible pathetic state I must be in without him.

THAT insinuation would thoroughly tick me off. Not only that, it would make me think he's an arrogant fool who thinks way too highly of himself.

This man just let you know that he's picturing you sitting at home weeping uncontrollably over him. And you know what that says? That tells me that he felt he had 100% power and control over you and your happiness. That tells me that he thinks that your happiness depends solely on him, and whether or not he's in your life. That tells me that he thinks you can't be happy without him.

I also find it odd that he used the word "pity" ("you just like other people to pity you"). . .only to then circle around and then offer it to you. If that bothered him about you, then why is he participating in it now? If that bothered him about you and he wanted to get away from that, then why is he placing himself into that situation all over again?

Additionally, I don't buy that he's doing this to "help." Because he asked you this, "Do you still feel the same?" As if he's maybe reconsidering, only to then turn around and then say, "i don't consider taking you back. .even though we are no longer tgt but i still care for you as a friend and i want to help you to move on from this breakup."

You know what I would've said to that?

I would've said, "I don't need your help to move on. I've ALREADY moved on. I have a date tonight that you're actually keeping me from. So I'm going to say goodbye and go meet my date. Bye!"

And I would've hung up and ended the call right there.

This man has the impression that you're needy and unable to stand on your own two feet and that your happiness comes directly from him - and only him. And that without him, you must be suffering terribly.

And responding as I would've responded above -- could've aided in correcting that.

A response like the one I suggested above would make him open his eyes to the fact that he's not the center of your world, you don't need him to be happy in life, there are other men out there that want to date you, and you'll do fine without him.

And THAT will make him THINK - about YOU - nonstop.

"Did I get her all wrong? Is the distance causing some of this? Maybe she wasn't as into me as I thought she was? Maybe I'm not as important to her as I thought I was. Maybe she's stronger than I thought? Maybe I don't know her well enough yet? Maybe I misunderstood her? Maybe I caused her to act the way she did? Maybe I caused her to feel insecure by being aloof all the time and acting indifferent?

Maybe I made a big mistake here?"

And then I probably wouldn't take him back, even if he circled back around LOL ;-)

But at least I let him know that I'm stronger than he thinks, and I don't need - or want - his help ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,
Thank you so much for your reply! Appreciate it.
So yes, today marks the end of my 30 days of no contact rule since the last time he circled back in after a week he asked for the break up.

Totally agree with you, I felt so turned off and disgusted by him saying all those like he's so full of him and saying arrogantly like that. I did told him that I do not need his help to move on and he doesn't need to care about me anymore. He said, "well, I'm just offering and suggested this help as a friend because I know how you are. I know it will be difficult for you to move on...The faster we move on and get over this breakup, it will be better for both of us."

And yes, I understood that he needed some space to breathe and to process his emotions, because of my neediness and I realized that. There was a point of time when he said he needed some space and asked for a break because again we were fighting. We contacted as usual but I distant myself a little for a few days. That was when he realized it and he asked me why I seemed a little distant from him. I told him that was what he wanted and I was just giving him some space that he asked for, without being needy. Then after, he said "I know I asked for it. I'm so sorry about that. Tell me what can I do to make things better. I'll be better"

There was also a point of time when I was not feeling good so I whined about few things about myself. All of a sudden he asked me if I was asking for sympathy. With that, it's not because I cannot accept criticisms but as a girlfriend, I felt a little offended that he thought of me that way.

And when I went out with my friends, he would tend to check on me every hour by texting and asking me "what time will you be home?" "call me when you get home" "who are you with?" "how long will it take for you to be home?" etc.. And MOA! after reading your article on dating an insecure men, I thought he had those signs for seeking validation and affirmation.

For example:
- When we do shopping, he would ask me to pick new clothes for him that looks good on him.
- He would keep asking me about his physical looks, if he looks good and handsome.
- To the point when I asked him why he keeps wanting to go to the gym, he told me that he wants to make himself look better, just like a model whom I showed a picture of to him before.
But when I told him that I wanted to cut my hair or I wanted to try on colored contact lenses, his reply would be "oh no don't, you already look good the way you are. You don't need to change anything, I'm used to seeing you like that.."

After the breakup, I got to know from his friends. He told them that he was just hurt that I said to him that I don't get any support from him when in fact, I was only voicing out and discussing my plan/desire to pursue my studies and that I would need his understanding and emotional support.But I don't know why for some reason he took it that I was blaming him for not giving me the support when I have not started anything. LOL! that got me really confused. So his friends were telling me that I never realized what he has done for me. That hurt me so bad.

Was he manipulating me? Was he an insecure person? I don't even know anymore. The fact that he brought me to meet his family when I visited him in Europe, 2 weeks after I came back, he could shut me out the door like that. Hurt, devastated. I have always been an independent person to the point that when I'm in this relationship with him, I felt so tied down and I had no life for myself. The life I had being in relationship with him was just work and home, to call him. I sacrificed so much for him but in the end, he could tell his friends that I never realized what he has done for me and don't appreciate that.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous May 17, 10:59 AM, Yes, Listen to MOA!! I had a guy who was just that arrogant to think that I would not show up at an event (that he would also be attending)because the week before he broke things off with me abruptly. I admit, I did consider not going to the event, but then I thought "I refuse to give him that kind of power over me". So I showed up with my cute self (LOL) and I think he must have wet his pants a little when I walked in. And then after the event, he called (which I let go to voice mail and did not respond) and texted (which I also ignored) several times. And each time, I could hear the frustration in his voice. It was the greatest feeling in the world to me. Very empowering--letting him know that I wasn't all "crushed and broken up" by what he said and showing him that I can still hold my head up high.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
News just broke today about comedian Mike Faverman, who's apparently a real "tool" (tool = characterized by low intelligence and/or self-esteem).

And I'm going to share what he said in a recent text exchange with an anonymous woman who accepted his friendship on Facebook, and rejected his offer of a date that came immediately afterwards.

And I'm sharing this ladies because for those of you who do not understand just HOW MUCH and HOW OFTEN insecure men (and other less desirable men as well) TARGET women with low self-esteem to use them sexually. . .this will surely open your eyes.

Hold onto your seats gals because this is probably going to make you want to throw something. Here goes:

"Mike Faverman: When am I taking you to dinner?

Anonymous Woman: I’m sorry if [I] gave you the impression that I wanted to date you by becoming your FB friend... That wasn’t my intention.

MF: It wasn’t I just wanted to see if you would like to have dinner.

You have to remember I met you. So I know you’re not out of my league in the least, please stop acting as if I wouldn’t have a chance. Although I do have a thing for big woman [sic].

I hope me asking you to dinner doesn’t give you any impression that you are more attractive than you think you are. You just seem like an easy target with potential low self esteem. I also know fat chicks give good blow jobs and are easy to push to the curb when you’re done with them.

A plump chick with high self esteem is like a unicorn out here. It’s kinda refreshing and sad at the same time. You must be very lonely and you must cry often. It explains why you are cushy and bitter. When a nice guy asks you out sometime, try to be polite and cordial, being an angry cunt is not the way to go through life. You should be happy people are asking you out at all still, seeing in 5 years with that dumpy ass no one will give a shit. Best of luck, hope I didn’t give you the wrong impression that you were hot just because I asked you to dinner, PIG."

Story here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/comedian-has-horribly-sexist-reaction-to-woman-who-politely-turned-him-down_us_5739c5f4e4b08f96c1838eb1?

TAKE NOTE OF THIS PARTICULAR INSIGHT HE'S BEEN STUPID ENOUGH TO SHARE:

"You just seem like an easy target with potential low self esteem."

An easy target. A victim. He's preying upon what he considers to be easy targets.

And do you know why he's doing that?

BECAUSE HE'S AN INSECURE MAN WHO FEELS A NEED TO TARGET, AND ABUSE, THE WEAK -- BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE STRONG WILL SEE RIGHT THROUGH HIM (AND HE WILL BE UNSUCCESSFUL AT MANIPULATING THEM).

And now that this has gone public. . .I'm going to assume that no woman will ever give this POS (piece of sh*t) the time of day ever again.

And the best part? He's no Adonis himself.

I never do this, but with him, I have no problem ranking him. I consider him to be about a 4 on a scale of 1 - 10. . .if I were to be nice, he'd be a 5. But I don't feel the need to be nice to him - so he's a 4.

And I guarantee you this woman he was approaching WAS out of his league on MANY more levels than that of attractiveness.

Then after this fool slams her as if she's not attractive to him - he's dumb enough to turn around and openly admit that he IS actually attracted to her and women of her build.

It's easy to see right through this guy. He tries to make her feel unattractive (make her feel as insecure as HE feels), but then is dumb enough to turn around and admit he's actually attracted. . .then ends by calling her a name, as if he's a 5 year old on a school yard playground.

Yea, Mike Faverman is an absolute insecure TOOL -- with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. He has the initials, MF--PERFECT!!

Gem50 said...

MF's reaction to the woman's response does not make sense. MF has some serious issues. Just checked out his website. That guy is calling someone else a pig?? Picture that trying to put his hands on you. Yuuuuuck.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
Yea, I was on his Twitter stream yesterday and he's being an ignorant fool over this. He even had a cake made with some derogatory remark about women on it, took a picture of it, and posted it to Twitter. He now claims he'll be making a video to accompany that as well.

He's calling everyone a pig now. And he's foolish enough to believe that everyone talking about this is somehow going to make him famous.

Apparently he has no concept of time, because 15 minutes passes by pretty quick - especially in the online world LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 18, 12:23 AM,
"Was he manipulating me? Was he an insecure person?"

I believe you've already answered this yourself when you said, "when I went out with my friends, he would tend to check on me every hour by texting and asking me "what time will you be home?" "call me when you get home" "who are you with?" "how long will it take for you to be home?. . .when I'm in this relationship with him, I felt so tied down and I had no life for myself. . .The life I had being in relationship with him was just work and home, to call him."

Deeply insecure individuals reach for control over others. Confident individuals do not reach for that type of control because - they're confident. They're confident in who they are, and they're confident that the person their with is an individual that they can trust. Otherwise, if they did not trust them, they wouldn't be with them. . .because they're confident enough to walk away to do what's best for themselves.

"he could tell his friends that I never realized what he has done for me"

And there's the manipulation. He's verbally bashing you, controlling your every move, making very hurtful comments, and then swooping in to offer his help because you're supposedly going to be so "devastated" over the loss, it's going to be tough for you to live without him.

He's insecure. So in his mind, he's overcompensating for that by directing himself to believe that he's wonderful, so much so - that you're not going to be able to live without him.

Regardless of all the details dear - the bottom line is that this man isn't making you happy. And his insecurities and jealousy are making it even worse.

I'd suggest that you cease speaking to his friends. And that you cease contact and/or responding to any contact from him immediately. Use the tactic of "no contact" to get yourself through this period. So that you can emotionally detach from him, remove yourself from the negativity and show him that you're stronger than he thinks:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

Do this for 30 days - no contact, no response.

And I guarantee you that if you do that, you're going to begin to feel much better about the situation, and about yourself. If he contacts you, DO NOT respond. Give both yourself and him at least 30 days of silence to balance emotionally once again. And if he starts questioning why you're not responding. . .DON'T RESPOND. Just ignore it.

Because remember - HE asked YOU for a break. So now, you're going to give that to him. You're going to give him the consequence of his decision:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

Stand strong dear. You can do this. And if you do, as I stated, you're going to begin to feel much better. Do not permit negativity to enter your life. ;-)

Anonymous said...

MOA said "Do this for 30 days - no contact, no response.

And I guarantee you that if you do that, you're going to begin to feel much better about the situation, and about yourself. If he contacts you, DO NOT respond. Give both yourself and him at least 30 days of silence to balance emotionally once again. And if he starts questioning why you're not responding. . .DON'T RESPOND. Just ignore it.

Because remember - HE asked YOU for a break. So now, you're going to give that to him. You're going to give him the consequence of his decision:

Stand strong dear. You can do this. And if you do, as I stated, you're going to begin to feel much better. Do not permit negativity to enter your life. ;-)" And MOA is sooo right. I implemented NC with a guy and at first it was hard. but every day it got a little easier. It will give you time to think about how he's treated you (poorly) and then NC really gets easier. NC is so empowering. It proves that the guy does not have control of you and that you can get along just fine without him--and this is something they don't want to see. It really frustrates them. But like MOA said, this is what HE wanted.

Anonymous said...

@ The Mirror of Aphrodite @Anonymous May 19, 12:51 PM

I am definitely feeling so much better after I implemented 30 days of NC for myself. It does get easier each day and thus, it will make me stronger and better!

I pondered on MOA words that my ex bf "had 100% power and control over you and your happiness. That tells me that he thinks that your happiness depends solely on him, and whether or not he's in your life. That tells me that he thinks you can't be happy without him."

I know that I've always been an independent person, who loves to go out with a good and positive circle of friends. I told myself I needed to get up and get back on the rhythm that I have lost myself with during my relationship with him. To make up for the loss, I been going out with girlfriends, spending more time with family, I been taking a good care of myself physically too and I'm definitely getting better and happier with the strong support system of family and friends. I just keep telling myself to see my surroundings on a positive light, it definitely helps in my positive thinking!
And yesterday, I went out with a guy friend that I've always been close to. He picked me up from home, and he drove me to a cafe for some dessert and drinks. I had a good time going out with him (other than talking about my breakup), he was nice, gentleman, giving his listening ear and providing me his attention throughout that couple of hours we were out. Anyway, I managed to take a picture of him in the cafe and some of other pictures of the dessert we had.
The devil inside me was telling me to post it on Instagram, and I did!

But at the back of my mind " my ex might think of me like, wow this girl can easily go out with another guy like its nothing when I've just dumped her a month ago" i know i know but can't help thinking that way. Still, it was quite empowering of me to do that and I felt that pinch of satisfaction. Because I do not want to feel like he has that 100% control of power of me. And knowing that we are done and over with this relationship, I can go out with anyone without his 24/7 surveillance. I hope that picture of my guy friend did not trigger my ex thoughts to circle back. I'm happy this way now and I just hope he does not reappear out of the blue! Although I unfollowed him on Instagram, he still follows me and still able to see my updates. And like MOA said, this is what HE wanted, so I'm only giving it to what he wants. See, we women are still nice to men till the end to give what they want ;-)

- Finah

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah. I'm Anonymous May 19, 12:51pm. Glad you are feeling better and that you are moving on and living your life (going out with your girlfriends and going on dates). Don't be surprised if your ex does circle back. As MOA says, once he sees you getting along fine without him, he will see you in a whole different light. He'll see that he has competition--and men love competition and they always want what they can't have. Now if he does circle back, what do you intend to do? When the guy I was in NC with circled back, I ignored him. I kept thinking to myself "do I really want to go back to a guy whose first choice was to treat me poorly and with disrespect?" I think NOT!!

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous May 19, 12:51pm,

Thank you! Yes, at the same time I'm so glad to find this website, which has helped me so much in the process of healing/recovery. Can never be thankful enough, which of course sharing my experience here too. I'm definitely not alone in this!

Prior to your question, "Now if he does circle back, what do you intend to do?"

Tbh, I don't know what to do about that as I don't think he will circle back. When he asked for the breakup, he said to me that we will never be back together (funny he texted me 1 week after the breakup saying that he wants to help me to move on), neither he needs/wants me(does not want to have a relationship with me anymore) I took that as he wants nothing to do with me at all. So, I doubt he will circle back ... Unless, he's that desperate LOL!

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anonymous May 19, 12:51pm here again). I'm sure you are quite a catch (and if he didn't know it before, he knows it now) The guy I went NC on broke things off with me very abruptly and made it seems like everything was my fault.(i.e. didn't want to take the blame for any of it and he's the innocent victim). When I went NC on him, He has his (grown) daughter call me using his phone (how Jr. High school can you get?? she has her own phone and I know calling me wasn't her Idea because she didn't do it before when I got her kid something)she was calling to thank me for a gift I had gotten her little son. When I saw the call was from his phone, I let it go to voice mail, and when I listened and heard her, I didn't respond. first of all, I was in the middle of NC with her father and second, the call did not require a response and Third, he just wanted me to call him--which I was not going to do. a week later, he calls me again asking if I got her message (seriously??!! )again I let it go to voice mail and did not respond. Then the week after that, he calls again asking if I got the message. This time, I heard frustration in his voice (hey, dude, THIS is what YOU wanted). So this time, I mirror him and send a text response about a week later. I tell him in a very generic tone that I got the message. And I think HE got the message, because my response was not in my usual, bubbly voice. The guy I'm dealing with is quite a piece of work. I could go on and on, but I don't think you came on this site to read a novel. LOL.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous May 19, 12:51pm,

You are a strong woman! You really did not give in to that guy. Funny that he was the one that broke off things abruptly and then circling back in like as if its okay.
Do these guys think that its "greener on the other side"? Do these insecure guys meant well when they ended/broke off things with us? And I read somewhere in Mirror's website that 90% of the guys circle back after the breakup. I remember when there were few guys who I've contacted, they left for no reason and then circle back in after 2-3months, giving lame excuses to return back. So I wonder if it will be the same for my
Ex bf, even after he has said all those to me when he broke off things with me.

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anonymous May 19, 12:51 here) Don't be surprised if your ex circles back somewhere around the 2 month mark. He'll probably start with some lame-o text (that's what mine did). Then two months after that he came around with a gift (it was Christmas time). Then after that, I lifted no-contact to let him know that his Left brake light was out (He sends a text thanking me, but also suggesting that I don't know my left from my right--I was going to let that pass but then decided not to so I explained to him that I DO know my left from my right and that it was the LEFT light that was out). I recently had surgery. He heard about it and was texting me right before and right after. (I've come to the conclusion that he did that just to ease his conscience). But that's just a sample as to who I was dealing with. Incredible. But I am STRONGER AND WISER because of it. and you will be, too.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous May 16,5:28pm. You and I must have been living Parallel lives. the guy I was seeing was a "church man" and I thought he was God finally blessing me with a good man. WRONG, WRONG AND WRONG!!!! He might as well have been a heathen as far as I was concerned. He was arrogant, disrespectful, inconsistent, rude, flaky (and I'm being kind). They say people come into your lives as either a Blessing or a Lesson. This character was definitely a lesson. He showed me everything I DON'T want in a man.

Anonymous said...

@ (Anonymous May 19, 12:51 here) hey there! Finah here..
it seems like that guy loves to play a little childish games with you for no reason. Just to get your attention and to see your reaction.
Anyways, at this point of time, me and my ex have not been in any contact except that he can see my Instagram updates (i.e posts of food, my selfies, me and my friends)
I won't be surprised if my ex circles back. But for someone who has said that he "doesn't want/need me anymore, does not want to be in a relationship with me anymore, does not consider taking me back in, just wants to start a new chapter in his life", that was like a major sign that he really meant it well in what he said. So what are the chances of him circling back? I think its kinda low.

Don't you think so, Mirror?

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah. (Anonymous May 19, 12:51 here again). Oh yes, he's quite the game player and manipulator. He likes for me to chase him (which ain't happening anymore). I no longer initiate texts or phone calls with him. He has texted me, but I take my sweet time answering (if I answer at all). I'm just "mirroring" what he does. and he gets frustrated (yes, a taste of his own medicine makes him sick). I don't know, Finah, I think your ex might come circling back. when/if he does, just stand strong and let him know you are doing just fine without him (they can't seem to handle that and as Mirror says, they see you in a whole new light). The Ex couldn't believe that I wasn't crushed when he broke things off abruptly with me and that I didn't harass him with texts and phone calls. I went complete and total NC and I've never felt so empowered. Hee Hee

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous May 19, 12:51 PM, @MOA
Well, guess what. He circled back!
He texted me with " Hey how are you?"
So of course, I'm ignoring him ;)
But really, what does he want now?

-Finah

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Finah,
"He circled back! He texted me with "Hey how are you?" - But really, what does he want now?"

Probably nothing, so don't read too much into it. Meaning, he's probably "testing the waters" to see if you're still going to make yourself available (as an "option") to him.

And many times, if a woman responds to these types of prods, once the man gets her response, he is reassured that she's still there - willing and waiting - so he places her on the back burner to simmer for a while and then resumes his normal life. Until it's time for him to check once again to see if you're still there, willing and waiting.

It becomes a big, endless cycle that leads nowhere. Which is why I say - don't read too much into it. Take the 30 days for yourself, free yourself of his drama, and just ignore this.

Because I can guarantee you that he has absolutely nothing earth shattering to say anyway LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anonymous May 19, 12:51 here) Told ya (LOL). Circled back with a lame-o text to test the waters. That's what they do. These guys are unbelievable. They break up with you and then when you are doing fine without them, they contact you to see if you are still "in the toy box". Grrr!!

Anonymous said...

@Mirror of Aphrodite
Finah here again. I replied him today with "Hi I'm good"
And shortly after,
Him: Thats good, how is work?
Me: Pretty busy
Him: I see,I've been pretty busy with school stuff as well. Well I'm texting you regarding my tablet I know its an awkward situation and all and I've kinda been avoiding it for a while but it has been a few weeks and yeah what I'm trying to say is I would appreciate if you could send it back to me." (he could just say it straight to the point, but LOL! one whole paragraph..)

My reply was simple: Sure, is there anything else?

Later, him: Thank you, no there is not. Let me know if you need the address,I can also pay for the delivery just tell me how much it cost and your bank acct no.

And then after, I left the message off as it is without any reply. I went wow, this guy is really asking for his tablet back when he was the one gave it to me. Always going around the bush to ask for something. I hope this would be a closure for him after getting his tablet back....

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anonymous May 19, 12:51 PM Here). I told ya!!! LOL. These guys are unbelievable. They break up with you and then come circling back to test the waters. To see if you are still "in the toy box" at their disposal. I can almost guarantee that he will circle back again.

Anonymous said...

@ (Anonymous May 19, 12:51)

I know! That's just because they are bored!! Ughhh
Eventually I returned my ex's stuff he asked for by mail. So probably that would take around 2 weeks for the package to arrive his place. And as I have already sent back his stuffs he asked for, I assume that we are done and there shall not be any form of communication after this! Just hope he does not re-open any contact with me

-fin

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anonymous May 19, 12:51) here. He'll probably call or text you when he receives the package. (don't be surprised. As MOA says, he wants to make sure you are "still there" at his disposal. Just stay strong and don't respond when he calls or texts.

Anonymous said...

Hi (Anonymous may 19, 12:51)
Well I just realized yesterday that he blocked my number after 1 week I contacted him to ask for his home address! I don't know why he did that all of a sudden and again I questioned myself what wrong I've done to him to the point he would block me on whatsapp. Just like the breakup and now blocking me on whatsapp, I feel confused with his moves.... He's doing this after 2 months of breakup! Its not like as if I harrassed him or spam any messages, there wasn't any sort of that. Even on my Instagram, I've only been updating pictures of me and my daily life and never once I mentioned once about the breakup on social media( he can view my instagram anyway) I been working and did few changes to myself, looking better and being more confident and showing how happy and content I have been.
So i thought that his move of blocking me was kind of unnecessary coz despite of what he has done to me, I made the contact for us open at all times... I can never understand him ...
- fin

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anon May 19, 12:51 here). You're better off. And don't even try to understand him--it will just make you crazy. Chalk him up as a distant memory. Continue moving on with your life and keep yourself open to meet a real gentleman whose first choice is to treat you special.

Anonymous said...

Don't we all have a little insecurities?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 15, 4:06 AM,
"Don't we all have a little insecurities?"

Absolutely. However, not everyone lets them guide their behavior and treatment of others. Self-aware individuals acknowledge them and learn to successfully manage them, versus ignoring them and projecting them onto others, forcing them to experience and live with the effects of them.

This article here is in reference to those that are deeply insecure and not self-aware. Those that have not acknowledged them and done the work on "self" required to learn to successfully manage them. Those that, instead, choose to project them onto others forcing them to live with them; thereby making them someone else's problem to deal with.

Anonymous said...

MOA, I met someone online.

What does it mean when he tells me about a girl he took out the night before, whom he ran into on his circuit and that she looked good in a tight black dress, and then asks what kind of formal attire I wear? I just said "I turn out". I made a joke and said ratchet. Not sure he got it. What sort of response should I have given?

He doesn't want to share his picture, since he likes talking in an anonymous forum and he says he has a lot to lose. So far we click and chat privately. He said earlier this afternoon after a fairly normal conversation about mutual workout styles that he would like to have his way with me, he told me before I was refined and overpowering (a positive he said) but now the shoe was on the other foot and I held back a little. He said he would be going to an event and would talk to me later. Admittedly I am at a crossroads in my life and have more time on my hands. I probably should not have tried to talk to him more than once in the day. I suggested we watch tonight's Strawberry moon and then asked how his event was and got the response about the black dress.

Conversation went downhill from there. Can I rescue it another day, MOA, and how? After the lil black dress incident, we talked about how I went with a guy on the same forum and it didn't work out. All since wanted to emphasize I like to dress and that's why he and I didn't work out, which is true. Then he of course wanted to know what happened between us and I said no. Then I said, I need to know if you will make me look good. He said not sure what that entails but I am the best looking person I know. Then I was up to my usual antics trying to elicit a response and I told him I wasn't in the biz, I mentioned a connection to the biz, I shared some song lyrics I had written. If this were a text by text comparison between him and me I would have lost.
So, now what,
How do I save face and rescue this for another day.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 20, 9:56 PM,
"What does it mean when he tells me about a girl he took out the night before. . ."

He's attempting to bring your insecurities to the surface (so that you become insecure, and therefore, more easily "attainable" to him). It's a well-know PUA tactic that's often taught to men in the PUA communities (pick up artist):

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/05/what-is-the-game-pick-up-artist.html

"He doesn't want to share his picture, since he likes talking in an anonymous forum, and he says he has a lot to lose"

LOL, yea I bet he does - he probably has a wife and family to lose.

"He said earlier this afternoon after. . .that he would like to have his way with me"

Yep, sounds like a PUA to me. He's not seeking a relationship or to date anyone regularly -- he's seeking sex and a one-night stand most likely.

"Conversation went downhill from there. Can I rescue it another day, MOA, and how?"

Why would you want to dear? This man is incredibly shady, and he's already signaling that it's sex he seeks (and he'll most likely disappear off the radar once he receives it). If that's what you're seeking, then a man like this would accommodate you there. But if you're seeking something meaningful and long-lasting -- this is NOT the type of man that's going to even consider something like that unfortunately.

"How do I save face and rescue this for another day."

I'd seriously reconsider that. This man has not shown you his face, is already signaling he's up to no good by preferring anonymity and then stating he "has a lot to lose," and he's made it clear that it's only sex he's after.

Doesn't sound even remotely close to Prince Charming dear :-(

Anonymous said...

Dear MOA

Just wondering - when dating a DM/Insecure man who is disrespectful and shady towards the rs, do we just walk away or do we communicate to them the reasons why the rs isnt working out before walking away? The reason I am asking this is because many of my female friends have commented that it would be rude to end things without having a closure with the guy. If u ask me i honestly wouldn't care less to communicate out the reasons to a rude guy who doesnt care about my feelings in the first place. Ur advice wise MOA?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 23, 8:32 AM,
"when dating a DM/Insecure man who is disrespectful and shady, do we just walk away or do we communicate to them the reasons why it isn't working out? The reason I am asking is because many of my female friends have commented that it would be rude to end things without having closure with the guy."

I'm a bit confused about why your friends feel it's important to be respectful and courteous to a man that is DISRESPECTFUL and IGNORANT to you.

Why bother? He's not showing you that type of respect, so why is it important to give him that type of respect? He's shady and vague with you, so why is it important to be honest and forthcoming with him? He's disappeared and treated you ignorantly, so why make an appearance in his life to show him common courtesy? He doesn't bother explaining himself or his own actions to you, so why bother explaining yourself and your actions to him?

Sounds like it'd be a lot of wasted energy and effort on someone who doesn't deserve another ounce of your time and attention anyway. Additionally, if he's disappeared, it's likely he won't even bother responding.

Being "too nice" tends to invite poor treatment from others. When you start to bend over backwards for another, they tend to take you for granted. I don't think being overly nice to a man that is treating you in a genuinely ignorant manner is a good idea, or a productive use of your time.

People get what they give dear. And when they give nothing but ignorance and disrespect to others. . .that's what they can expect to receive back from them.

"If u ask me i honestly wouldn't care less to communicate out the reasons to a rude guy who doesn't care about my feelings in the first place."

BINGO! Exactly.

Anonymous said...

From @Anonymous Jun 23:

Looks like we share the same sentiments Ms MOA! It really doesnt pay to be a doormat; nonetheless its so sad that there are so many 'nice' girls out there being treated badly by these shady and disrespectful DMs

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous June 24, 2016 at 3:07am: Yes, it really is sad. But it seems when it comes to these men, a woman has to act like a b*#%h. I was very nice to my DM and all he did was disrespect me and take advantage of me. He always wanted me to chase after him. When I finally refused and started acting like a B*#%h, He started acting different --acting like he had some sense.

Anonymous said...

MOA, this is Anonymous June 20, 9:56.

I keep missing opportunities. I wrote you in the past about a guy I went out on a date with once (about two years ago now), recently he wrote me "lost all our contacts".

Anyway without much background, this week I texted him (as part of a bit of a conversation about where we are in our lives) you should come to [my city]. He surprised me, it's really not far. So (and hopefully he wouldn't see this) he lost a business, his father has passed away, and I said "Charisma!" He says at least I still have that. I said, When is life not messy, it's just life. 'lay some of that charisma on me'. He texts me late at night, I'm working in X state through Saturday, is that close??

I thought about it and my best response was, "not especially, sorry".

I mean he should come to ME right?
Then, I said what sort of work is that. Then "frustrated?" He says: "very."
A day later he tells me what sort of work he's doing. Then I said, I don't know anything about what you just said, but you can keep blowing hot air in my ear if you want"

---"LOL"

That was Tuesday. Then Wednesday: What happens Saturday. Then later Wednesday: Come see me please? Then Thursday: I drive. (He doesn't for the moment.) This morning: Did you escape the bad weather in X for now? Then this evening: What are you up to?
These are facebook messages, so rather unfortunately I can see he has seen them.

Why didn't I just suggest we meet somewhere or anything else really??
What is happening here?

This is like.....last summer a guy I dated wanted me to meet his parents and was talking about engagement when I hardly knew him, but unlike the guy above he is too young for me and so I declined. And after we were intimate (a point to which I never got with Guy#1) he dropped me (although ultimately I moved to pursue work, so in actuality that is probably why it didn't go anywhere.)

So, what am I supposed to say to guy #1. He was actually pursuing me!

And in the meantime, for someone to talk to I think I have been chasing online guy, "PUA" and probably already attached, from post June 20 9:56. I haven't really found that balance. It was easier to not require as much from Guy #1 when PUA was interested in me, though we know that's probably a fantasy.

So, again what am I supposed to say to guy #1. He was actually pursuing me!

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA!
I don't know if my comment previously got through you. In any case, just a little update. Last Sunday, my ex bf messaged me just to let me know that he has received the package well. I didn't reply him. There wasn't a need to tell me because what mattered more that I don't owe him anymore stuffs and my job was done right after I sent back his stuffs.
But yesterday, when I woke up in the morning for work, ( it was midnight for him as we have 6 hours of different time zone) I received messages from him asking, "how are you? How is fasting month been? :) "
I didn't reply that either. I feel that im being sucked into an emotional turmoil again.. What's with this random questions? Not like as if he cares? For someone who has said that he does not want me anymore, why would he appear and text such? Its been almost 3 months since the breakup. Pretending that everything is okay just because we are moving on? I'm confused.

Finah xx

Anonymous said...

Hi Finah (Anon May 19, 12:51 here). Didn't I tell you he would contact you once he got the package?? They can be so predictable sometimes. Just ignore it. Like MOA said, he's just testing the waters and probably wondering why you aren't crushed and sending him millions of text messages etc. That's what mine did. He was thinking I should be crushed that he broke things off. and when he saw that I wasn't, he was probably wondering what was going on.
Stay strong.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 24, 9:15 PM,
"Why didn't I just suggest we meet somewhere or anything else really?"

Why are YOU asking HIM out?

"So, again what am I supposed to say to guy #1. He was actually pursuing me!"

But -- if I understand this correctly. . .he is NOT pursuing you if he is NOT taking ACTION, ya' know?

A man that is pursuing a woman takes immediate action, and will make the time and arrangements to see the woman he's pursuing ;-)

Anonymous said...

MOA I met a guy online. Assuming I learn enough about him that I am comfortable meeting him and he suggests it (which based on our conversations I think he may soon) how do I like turn into something other than just a hookup. MOA I am 33. I am not naive, just not a lot of long term dating experience. I had a lot of hookups as a teenager, then a few in college and after. I tried not giving it away on the first date but then I started chasing the guy to make it work. Which of course didn't work. Can you point me to your advice? Or something I can read quickly? Not like a book lol since Im pretty busy. We have some things in common but he hasn't shared a lot about himself. I myself have trust issues. So If he takes me to dinner and I havent decided I like him yet but if I do decide and then sleep with him? I am probably the last single woman of my friends. My career has been stalled and Im transitioning to a new one which could be to blame so much focus on career for so long.
Also, what should I know about him before I meet him?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 30, 1:28 PM,
"how do I turn into something other than just a hookup"

You refuse lame date offers (to hang out at home on a sofa), you wait at least 30 days (or 5-8 dates) before becoming sexually intimate with the man, you do not participate in overnight stays for at least 30 days (or 5-8 dates) and you do not participate in sexting AT ALL.

If you want a man to take you seriously as a long-term prospect, then you need to conduct yourself as a woman that's seriously seeking a long-term prospect (versus a woman who is simply down to have some casual, meaningless fun).

If you want others to value you, then you need to value yourself:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/08/how-do-you-value-yourself.html

"I tried not giving it away on the first date but then I started chasing the guy to make it work."

Cease thinking that sex = love. Or that sex is the path to a long-term relationship. Because the opposite is true. Sex early on is actually the path to a hookup. Because it signals to the man that you're not taking things seriously. Instead, you're seeking something fun and casual (and you're willing to sacrifice yourself to attain it).

The path to a long-term relationship is a meaningful connection that goes MUCH deeper than the shallow surface of physical intimacy. Not only that, but men do not bond physically through sex like women do. They can have sex with strangers, themselves and even animals (OMG LOL) and it means very little. Physical activity is not how men fall in love. It's how women tend to bond and fall in love. For men, a different bond is needed - and it's one of appreciation and mutual respect.

A man likes to feel appreciated by a woman. He likes to be seen as a "hero" in her eyes. He likes to be able to confide in her and for her to be able to listen without judgment or retribution. And he likes to have fun with the woman (without heavy emotional displays, drama, etc.)

Connect with a man on THOSE levels consistently over time and if he's attracted to you, he WILL eventually start to "feel" for you.

"Can you point me to your advice?"

There are many articles on this site that you can glean insight from ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

This one is often overlooked but critically important as it addresses the 9 laws of persuasion and what makes people like one another or find themselves attracted to one another. These are fundamental laws - they apply both professionally and personally:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2013/04/dating-tips-persuasion-influence.html

"So If he takes me to dinner and I havent decided I like him yet but if I do decide and then sleep with him?"

If you sleep with a man on the first date dear, you can almost guarantee that you won't be dating him a month or two later. So I wouldn't advise that. If you're looking for something meaningful, then you have to become more meaningful to the man than simply being a warm body next to him in his bed, ya' know?

You have to invest time, energy and WORK into relationships if you want them to be long-lasting. Taking shortcuts pretty much only guarantees that you reach the finish line much sooner - and the relationship tends to burn out just as quickly as it began. Because all of the small stuff in between that actually bonds two people together was skipped right over.

"what should I know about him before I meet him?"

I would worry to much about the facts just yet as they can, and should, be gathered in a face-to-face setting. For now, I'd simply observe his willingness to do things the proper way (and not the sleazy fast-track way), and his willingness to treat you special like a lady - and whether or not you feel you'd even like to meet him after speaking to him.

That's enough to deem if a first date is even necessary. Then once you're on the date itself, you move towards getting to know one another better on a personal level (not a physical one, because the only thing you're learning there about him are his "night moves" LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

MOA I went on 3 coffee dates with men I met online. They initiated the meetings. For all three guys I am at a loss. All of them touted how much money they were making (details of pensions, inheritances and other money coming), and went off on tangents when I asked some questions. I asked one guy if he had any pets. He said no but then proceeded with long winded stories - one about a rooster he knew as a child - second was a neighbour's cat he used to pet as a teenager. Who cares about the rooster and cat? Another guy explained in detail what he was going to do for the next 10 days since he just retired. Going on a long cruise with someone, starting to see a lady one day a week, then move to two days, then 2 or 3 times a week - this was only the start of it. One guy explained to me in detail the exact amount of child support he pays to his ex and arrangements of how he is going to pay off her credit card bill. Another said he went on a holiday with an ex but during the trip they bickered like crazy so they broke up soon thereafter. He said she said this him after: "she told me if I hit her she would marry me". WTF? Some of these men go into so much detail about their lives, there is nothing left to know about them. I believe in getting to know someone gradually, so I did not pour out my whole life story. Should I keep away from these types of guys, or is it just how the dating game is these days? Would you say these guys are very insecure?



Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, I've been seeing a man for a little over a month now. He told me he loved me about 2-3wks in. He came on really strong, and continues to come on strong, wanting to see me everyday and spend the night every night. It's been nice to feel desired and to feel like a major priority to a man, however i'm feeling exhausted from it. I feel smothered. I don't want to see him everyday, but when i tell him that, he tells me "well you're not ready for a relationship with anybody then". It concerns me he doesn't have any real interests in life outside of me, and doesn't seem to have many other people in his life either. I've also noticed whenever I do decide to spend time with him, he wants my constant attention. I can't get anything done whenever he is around, ever, not even get fully dressed when we're at my place, as he will constantly interject. Another example, we went to a store recently together, and the whole time he was in my face touching/kissing me, demanding my attention, and then pouting when I would tell him enough. His behavior seems needy, selfish, and bordering on disrespect. After every time I see him I always feel exhausted and run down, it's as if I can never give enough or be enough to him. I told him I needed some space recently, and that I'm also about to change careers and need to focus on that for right now. He says okay he understands, however, he still asks to see me everyday. Is this guy insecure, controlling, disrespectful? I feel like he only seems to genuinely care about his own needs. What's confusing is he is very generous on our dates, taking me wherever i suggest,and spending a lot of money on me. I just wish he'd slow down, not act so needy, and allow for a real and balanced relationship to develop naturally over time and maybe get a life outside of me. Am I asking for too much here, would could be going on? Thanks

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 8, 11:34 PM,
"Should I keep away from these types of guys, or is it just how the dating game is these days?"

Don't waste your time on these types. They're all hung up. They're not focusing on you, which is what a first date should include from both parties. Instead, they're focusing on themselves, airing dirty laundry, attempting to trigger your insecurities. . .all kinds of energy being spent on good-for-nothing attempts. Beyond that, if they're incapable of being any fun on a first date, they're not going to suddenly become more fun and enjoyable once they really get comfortable with you LOL. The bitching and moaning and misdirected energy will only get worse.

"Would you say these guys are very insecure?"

I'd say they are. . .because they're acting in a manner that's completely OPPOSITE from that of CONFIDENT men. Confident men focus their energy on the woman, they go out of their way to impress, they aim to leave a good impression, and they're very mindful of their own behavior (making sure it's appropriate).

Because when the date is over, they'll rank themselves on how they did.

Meaning, how they treat women is important to confident men. If they don't feel they did a good job, they'll be their own worst critic. So they strive to be their best selves always, no matter what. And because they're emotionally stable and mature, they're able to "keep it together" when around women and/or on a date with one.

Gentlemen don't get "diarrhea of the mouth" ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 9, 3:45 PM,
"He told me he loved me about 2-3wks in. He came on really strong, and continues to come on strong, wanting to see me everyday and spend the night every night."

That's actually not a good sign dear :-(

It signals insecurity and "neediness" (in both men AND women when they behave like that). How can someone love you after 2-3 weeks, when it takes a hell of a lot longer than that to get to truly know someone?

I suspect folks who fall that quickly are in love with the IDEA of being in love. They're not experiencing feelings of true love. . .but they love the idea of being in love. So they start to buy into that idea RIGHT AWAY.

"well you're not ready for a relationship with anybody then"

Actually, the slower a person proceeds, the more "ready" they are for a relationship. Because when you're ready, you realize everything must be done properly and with care, so as to not make any hasty mistakes that may jeopardize things.

Only fools rush in ;-)

"we went to a store recently together, and the whole time he was in my face touching/kissing me, demanding my attention, and then pouting when I would tell him enough."

Neediness. He's "needy" and insecure and requires a LOT of attention to constantly boost himself up. He lacks confidence, so he seeks it from outside sources with regularity instead.

"Is this guy insecure, controlling, disrespectful?"

Insecure individuals tend to also be somewhat controlling individuals as well. Because they internally realize they're somewhat out of control, they seek to externally control others and situations, etc. in order to gain a feeling of control back. I doubt his intentions are to be disrespectful. But when you're insecure and you expect others to deplete themselves in an effort to keep yourself constantly feeding off of them to boost yourself up. . .that's the end result. It feels disrespectful.

"I feel like he only seems to genuinely care about his own needs"

That's because he does :-( Extremely insecure individuals are obsessed with constantly getting their need for reassurance met.

He needs to stabilize himself emotionally and develop a sense of confidence about himself and your budding relationship. I suspect he's assuming that if he doesn't cling on tight, he'll lose it. So he's holding onto it for dear life.

If he'd release his grip a bit and instead fall back on the confidence in knowing that things are going fine, and he started to provide himself with his own reassurances (instead of seeking it from others), he'd start to feel much better about himself. He'd develop a sense of pride, accomplishment and he'd ultimately feel more satisfied with himself.

And the more satisfied with himself he feels, the less he needs to seek satisfaction and reassurances from others ;-)

Anonymous said...

can anyone tell me what this "X" neans at a end of a text? i been texting a man for moths and seeing him and this is the first time i got a twext with a X! at the end i didnt do it back was that rude? i wasnt sure what it was.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 14, 3:48 PM,
"can anyone tell me what this "X" means at a end of a text?"

XOXO = hugs and kisses. X = hugs (two people, arms crossed). O = mouth puckered for a kiss.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA. I need advice. Like really soon. I met a guy online in an anonymous forum with chat. We have been talking almost everyday for 1 month. About career advice, about life, everything. He unfortunately lives in Europe but he said he would be in New York in August and that we could meet up. No official word on that yet. I had given him 2 pictures of me. He gave me just one of himself.

The problem I believe stems from this. This site is anonymous, but members like to "out" or "doxx" other members. I joined the site knowing that someone I dated briefly last year used it. It became clear that he did not like the attention I was receiving from other men and finally last Friday he stole a picture from my Facebook and not only that, a very unflatttering, seven year-old picture with my name and gave it to another member who has a very real, unhealthy obsession with me. Since Friday the other member kept posting this unflattering seven year-old picture and saying "she's ugly". That seemed to be the consensus of the forum, except from a few of the women. I got the "moderator" to remove those pictures, but before that I got so fed up I posted the two pictures I had sent the guy I am interested in.

Just Friday before my guy interest disappeared for the weekend and before all hell broke loose we had this exchange:

Me: I'll have to give you some time to think of me.
Him: Please do.
Me: I walked into that one huh
Him:And what a lovely walk it was
Me: how do you feel
Him: what stride
Him: tired
Me: tired
Me: Ill bet
Me: You really are special X you really are something else
Me: I really feel we are on the same wavelength
Me: Probably shouldn't be telling you that
Him: sure you should :P
Him: It's nice
Me: Is it true:
Him: we'll see
Him: only time will tell
Me: nervous
Him: excited*
Me: You?
Him: Sure


And , MOA, he was sort of absent from the site this weekend. I sent him an e-mail to his anonymous email something benign like how is your weekend going, I miss u.
He was on chat briefly last night and said to me "I will answer you tomorrow (sunday)" I didnt break conversation with the others and then said: Ok, X.
So when I saw him today online and he hadnt answered me I was kind of crestfallen. I really should have waited but I couldnt.

So we had this exchange:
Me: Hi, so you on a date today?
Me: Am I dropped?
Him: Yeah
Me: Yeah what
Me: Still want to meet me? [and i know here was my mistake but i couldnt take him "ignoring me"
Him:Maybe
Him: I need to think about it
Me: What changed?
Me: Hm, I want 2 meet u
[he tells the public chat he is out]
Me: Can you hang on a sec
Me: Can you hang on here just a sec.

The thing is we really have a strong connection, I thought and he said so in the same words. "Strong connection." He is living in Europe but he grew up in the US. I recently dropped out of professional school and was even looking at getting a job in his industry, and even before I met him I took an interest in it. We talk about all sorts of things.

He kept teasing he wanted a picture of me in a swimsuit since we both were swimmers. I finally said I think you want this picture bc you think I look fat. I wish I had saved the conversation. He said "no I am sure you look great, besides looks aren't all that important to me anyway." So, is it really the new-old picture that caused him to change his mind?

I know it wouldn't be appropriate now or even after we first meet but I think I would move to Europe for him.
Maybe I could send him my number by email and quit the chat and say what……..?
[post continued next submission]

Anonymous said...

[post continued from above]
Maybe I could send him my number by email and quit the chat and say what……..?


I am just guessing that seeing the less-than-flattering pic of me is why he changed his mind.
I need to back off probably, but I use the chat in between looking for jobs and going to the gym pretty much everyday and have some attachment to it.
So it is hard to disappear and I wonder if I do, if he would try to contact me.
He has my real first name (and maybe my last if he saw the pic.)
Maybe I could send him my number and quit the chat room and say what....?

****What should I do? Please don't say I should give up on him. What should I say?

Thank you very much in advance.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 24, 3:22 PM,
"What should I do? Please don't say I should give up on him. What should I say?"

I think you're probably in the wrong place seeking suggestions here. I do not advocate pursuing men. And I feel that anonymous chat forums are abused widely and therefore, a waste of time. For all you know, you're being "cat fished" right now. You have no clue who you're really speaking to there. This could be your old boyfriend, it could be a woman, it could be a teenager. And it could also be someone living 5 miles away from you, not oversees.

The only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested in her. . .is to see if HE pursues HER.

If you pursue a man and you take on the masculine role (leader, initiator), you have no way of knowing if the man is genuinely interested, simply being nice, or just wants to take you up on your offer and eventually have sex with you and then disappear. And when a man is vague and evasive with you, it's a big red flag. Genuinely interested men do not behave that way with the woman they're interested in. Instead, they are transparent so that the woman feels secure, reassured and comfortable proceeding.

"This site is anonymous, but members like to "out" or "doxx" other members."

That's a very hateful practice, just like putting someone on "blast" on social media is. It's funny but. . .these "social" sites as anything but social. And many people use them for nefarious purposes, bullying being up there in the top 5. Why participate in a community like that? Why spend time in a place where no one is really who they are, bullying is considered a fun way to pass the time, and lying is pretty much the norm?

Nothing positive ever comes out of something negative. A negative environment only breeds more negativity, as you're now seeing.

So far this man has done absolutely NOTHING for you. All he's done is talk, and talk is cheap. He has not proved himself to be real. He has not proved himself to be genuinely interested. He has not proved himself at all. He's has not offered you anything of real value. And until that happens and HE'S PROVED HIMSELF -- I would not get caught up in the petty, childishness that takes place there. . .and I would not get caught up in him.

Because right now, you have no clue who is behind that profile. And until you do, I would not take any of this seriously :-(

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA. Do you think there is a problem with a guy who has no social media presence - no Linked in or Facebook? We met on a dating site and he has no photo there either. Asked him jokingly about why no picture and he just said he is a private person. At first on the site he said he would send a picture after we talked for awhile. Then as promised he did send me one privately. Does that mean he is a pretty tightly closed up individual?

The guy I am dating is quiet and shy and has a problem opening up and talking about himself. Most people I know, and even other guys I have dated, have at least been on Facebook.

I don't want to create drama here but it's just odd he is no where to be found online.


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 27, 10:45 PM,
"Do you think there is a problem with a guy who has no social media presence"

In and of itself, no that's not that unusual. Particularly when it comes to the older generations. I hail from Gen X and many of my friends have no desire for social media.

But if the there are other "anonymous" things like this that start stacking up as well, then it does become a bit suspicious. But in and of itself, lots of folks have no use for social media.

"Does that mean he is a pretty tightly closed up individual? I don't want to create drama here but it's just odd he is no where to be found online."

It's possible. To me, not having an online presence isn't anything unusual. As I stated previously, probably upwards of 75% of the people I personally know (Gen X folks) have no use for it whatsoever. The people they want to know what's going on in their life. . .they actually speak to face to face. The rest don't matter to them and are only considered acquaintances, not friends.

It only becomes suspicious when the individual is acting "anonymously" or vague and evasive both online and off. It's one thing to not have an online presence. It's another entirely different matter to want to act that way in real life, too. If you're suspicious about this individual, ask for more photos. Many more, that aren't posed and that seem like "real life" images (that aren't being lifted off the Internet or someone else's Facebook profile, which happens a LOT these days).

And then use Google Reverse Image Search to see if these are images that are being lifted from elsewhere off the net: https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/1325808

If a "match" comes up for a Facebook profile that has a completely different name from the man you're speaking to, then one of two things may be going on. The man is not who he claims to be and is using photos from someone's profile to pretend that's who he is. Or he is the man in the profile, and is possibly lying to you about his real name, identity, etc.

Anonymous said...

Lol MOA, @July 25 8:45 am. I asked him to a concert next week he just says "end of August" he replies pretty minimally. Seems to me I am remembering you post often on the guy who texts "breadcrumbs" (that's a thing I saw it in the NYT.
Are you saying by not replying that you are done with this story. Wish you would offer more advice :)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

It's been about a month since I last wrote here. I heeded your advice on No Contact rule for a month, in fact I did it for 2 months for myself. I stayed strong and emotionally detached myself from him. I am now able to tell you that life is progressing well for me, I am much happier and I am definitely better off without him :)


Anyway, last Friday was my birthday and to my surprise, he sent a text to me to wish 'Happy Birthday!' to me. I ignored that. And a week later (which was again on a Friday, he texted me again asking,

'Hey, what's up?'

I replied: Just finished work.

Him: That's good, how have you been doing?

Me: I'm great

Him: That's good to hear :) I finished my exam on Tuesday and now I'm going to Portugal with my friends. (This part MOA, WHO CARES? I didn't even ask anything about his life}

Me: okay good for you, and...?

Him: and nothing, I was just trying to do some small talk

Me: oh small talk? I see. Well I don't think its good for me to have small talks with you as I clearly remembered you saying that you don't want your ex girlfriend to be texting you when the girl you probably dating would be asking you about it :)

Him: I'm not dating anyone.I just tried being nice,catching up a bit but I do understand if me texting you bothers you :/



6 HOURS LATER...

my reply to him was: That's nice of you. Well I'm the one who should not be bothering as you are having a trip with your friends. Have fun and a great weekend.

Him: ohh trip only starts on Tuesday, that was my bad I explained it wrong :p you have a good WE too :)


And so, I left the conversation.

Was he for real? Was he again just testing the water with me? Or was he genuinely asking for just small talk and wanted to do some catching up with me? Or is there more to it? It's like as if he's the one who can't move on...

Fin



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Fin,
This happens quite a bit as it's natural to men for them to attempt to keep "options" for themselves. That way, should something fall through (for instance, him dating someone else), he can turn around back to you and just pick up where he left off. . .because he's kept you as an "option" for himself.

If you're not interested and hearing from him is upsetting to you, don't respond to him in the future. Because you can't move forward when someone from the past is holding you back ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Fin: Listen to MOA. Yes, this what they do. MOA calls it "testing the waters". I like to call it, "checking to see if you are still in the toy box for them to play with later". My DM did this (and is still doing it to some degree). Don't be surprised if you hear from him again in another month or so.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, I have been writing you about this guy who lives in Europe currently whom I may meet for a date when he is State-side very soon. I would like your advice for something particular. I would like to know how you think I should present myself about my recent past. I would like to be as honest as possible, but at the same time put my best self forward, especially if it means editing and omitting details.
So for a first date, how would I present this.
I withdraw from medical school 6 months into the first year, but the last almost 5 years have been rocky.
I started med school in 2012 (at 29), but the summer before my dad was in and out of the hospital as he was first diagnosed with dementia (now alzheimer's). So, I also had some academic difficulty and went on leave in the first semester and audited over the winter and came back next year, 2013. But the next year my dad got sick again during my orientation week. Fell in the supermarket, had atelectasis. My mother then "lost" her cell phone so I couldn't reach her for details. I was crying in school the second day and they took me out. I was hospitalized. I think if I told him this I would deemphasize the meltdown say I was crying and school and was hospitalized. So, school asked me to work for a year and live on my own in the city of school, since a lot of this was about separating from my parents. I was an only child and I have had a hard time with this and I think career has suffered as a result. So, I did that. Worked for a sole practitioner at a law firm and was fired. We are up to 2014. The good news is school let me back. 2015 I started school yet again, 6 months in I was given extra time on an exam but school was still in session, panicking I thought I could not catch up. (Med school is hard) and I really missed my dad and parents. So I made a split decision to quit. Actually I regretted that decision and contacted school about my mistake but didnt get an answer. So, after soul searching and searching for work, I thought about pursuing finance. I am considering taking a review course for the CFA, very soon.
He may or may not be in a similar field, but I made this decision on my own. Just for additional interest, in case it were to come up I dated a guy I met at the firm only once. He was a client. I also dated a guy who was a bit younger than I last summer.
Oh, and now I live with my parents temporarily.

I thought when we went out instead of trying to bring all this up also, that I would suggest we try this app put out by the New York Times "36 Questions" (you might search for this) which is based on a published study saying that if you answer these questions with a potential date you may get closer to intimacy and vulnerability with him. The study says you have 15 minutes for each third of the 36 questions but may not get to them all.

So this guy has been cool-ish. But he also said he is going to a conference in London and I joked "me go" to which he said will you? It is a big conference. But he is also going with 3 other ppl. I think that would be a big step and I should see whether we connect also first.
This is really important to me. We have connected on many levels online. It will just be up to whether there is physical chemistry and interest. Ok fine, he is in finance.
I love your site, thanks in advance.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 2, 12:31 PM,
"I would like to know how you think I should present myself about my recent past. I would like to be as honest as possible, but at the same time put my best self forward, especially if it means editing and omitting details. So for a first date, how would I present this."

You don't have to explain yourself on a first date -- or on the 8th date for that matter.

Never overwhelm people with TMI (too much information). The ONLY time you DO explain yourself in detail, is AFTER you've entered into a committed relationship with the man. If he asks for more detail PRIOR to that, you simply give an abbreviated version. You don't go into all the negative things that took place.

You simply say, "I withdraw from medical school 6 months into the first year because it really wasn't for me and it didn't work out."

Period.

You don't have to explain yourself to anyone or place all of the negative experiences you've had on the table for them. Everyone has had negative experiences in life -- but they don't go around explaining them to everyone they meet, ya' know?

"I thought when we went out instead of trying to bring all this up"

Why would you even bring that up? Meaning, why are you leading into a possible budding relationship by discussing negative experiences? That's not what you lead with. Instead, you lead with the positive and you leave the negative in your past where it belongs. A simple, "It just didn't work out" is more than enough to cover that territory. And if someone pushes, you could add "There was a lot going on in my life at the time, my father was ill."

Period.

"I would suggest we try this app put out by the New York Times "36 Questions" which is based on a published study saying that if you answer these questions with a potential date you may get closer to intimacy and vulnerability with him."

No - that would appear as "trying too hard." It also appears like an impersonal interview. Letting conversation flow naturally and organically build is a much more personal, authentic, genuine approach. You don't want to come across as if you're interviewing for a boyfriend.

"The study says you have 15 minutes for each third of the 36 questions but may not get to them all."

Why spend 45 minutes buried in app like you're taking an exam when you're sitting right there with each other and can simply talk and enjoy each other and get to know one other naturally?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Remember - the "get to know you" period is MUCH longer than one or two dates. Generally speaking, it's about a 3 to 4 month period of time. And about a year or more until you fully know everything about the individual. Trying to squeeze all that in on the first date comes across as trying too hard -- like there's some rush to hurry up and speed past that stage.

When instead, you should take that stage slowly, letting it unfold naturally over the course of several months and many dates.

"I think that would be a big step and I should see whether we connect also first."

I would not travel ANYWHERE for overnight stays with a complete stranger after one date. Nor would I travel anywhere for overnight stays with a man I've only dated a few times.

Overnight travel comes after about 3+ months of dating. After the "get to know you" period is well under way, and you have a much better feel for who the man truly is, and you're starting to build a solid foundation of trust.

You cannot trust strangers these days - EVER.

You have no way to know if this man will attempt to corner you alone and force himself onto you, or if he'll act strange and abandon you somewhere alone in a strange town, or if he'll get drunk and become hostile and ignorant during an evening out, or if anything he's told you up to that point is even true about himself.

DON'T rush past the get to know you stage -- because it's CRUCIAL to the development of a relationship. And while an app might assist with that. . .nothing compares to genuine, authentic interaction and the time necessary to build that.

"Ok fine, he is in finance."

That means nothing really. Money does not equal happiness. And just because a man has some. . .does not automatically mean he'll share it with you and treat you well. I know a lot of individuals in the finance industry that are tight with their money, and are rude, arrogant and ignorant about it as well.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." ~ Lord Acton

Anonymous said...

Wow you are really the best MOA ! I am just here reading all your posts and comments.
I always feel empowered through the knowledge that i've learned from you .Thanks a lot for helping us.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with the clever and crafty ex.

I had in the past posted on this and the No Contact article. I thought I would post this update publicly as there is a lesson here for everyone.

After the helpful advice you gave in our private consultation, I decided to end it / show him an end. I was not playing or pretending. I had thought it through and decided to move on. There is a part of me that is still processing my emotions, trying to accept "defeat" and release the feeling, but that is not the same thing as saying I will regret the decision because either way (whether or not we end up together), I will have "won".

So, after ignoring him for 4 days during which he was silent (after ignoring previous texts and calls), he returned in the morning of the 5th day and asked to have drinks/dinner later that same day. I turned that down (no last minute dates) and texted him that "there is something I would like to say, it will not take long". I had intended to deliver the "we want different things, let's be friends" line (but I never got the chance, as you will see). I also told him he had stuff with me, and that he should collect them.

Not content with that, he called twice more (both ignored), then texted "what time for drinks? [venue]?" In response, I said "another time", and we could do lunch [3 days hence] - I still wanted to deliver the "friends" line. He declined this offer/suggestion.

He then disappeared for 2 days, and on the 3rd day he called. I picked up and we chatted - I sounded distant and indifferent - and I knew he picked that up. He started to explain about not being able to do lunch that day (which I knew was BS since the proffered "reason" was not something he customarily did or would likely do); the truth of the matter was that he did not want to go down the "friends" route (by doing lunch). But when I said that he need not explain, he got really testy and annoyed ("of course I don't have to explain, I'm just trying to be nice"). Umm, ok. Anyway, he made another call attempt later that day, then nothing. He has ... disappeared.

Initially, I was annoyed because I thought this was more games, and it reminded me of something Mirror said - that men are in game mode 24/7. Then I thought, this a**hole is not even man enough to take it on the chin. And then it hit me - this is HIS way of getting my attention, of attempting to take back control, a "last ditch" attempt to get me to notice him, worry about him, think about him, etc. Any thoughts, Mirror?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous With the Clever/Crafty Ex,
"And then it hit me - this is HIS way of getting my attention, of attempting to take back control, a "last ditch" attempt to get me to notice him, worry about him, think about him, etc. Any thoughts, Mirror?"

You nailed it - now you understand LOL ;-)

You took control, he knew what was coming, he didn't want to face it or be held accountable for his actions/treatment of you. . .so he's wrestling to get the power and control back by attempting to trigger your insecurities (so that you'll become fearful it's truly over and chase him down).

Let him wrestle with that. He created the situation for himself. When you take advantage of people, take them for granted and treat them with disrespect. . .you are no longer someone enjoyable to be around and people will leave you. Period, case closed.

And that's the lesson he's grappling with right now. But that's not your problem. You keep moving forward and if he's unable to permit you to end it in a civil manner, then so be it and leave things as they are.

Either way, do NOT let this man distract you from your goals and your happiness with his shenanigans - keep moving forward ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is Anonymous With the Clever/Crafty Ex.

Update: He reappeared after one week, with texts and phone calls which were ignored, until he texted "Can you please pick up the phone? It's important." To which I replied "Is this urgent / work?" And got a rhetorical "What do you think?" in response - to which, of course, I did not reply. So he called, and I picked up. Turns out, he wanted to let me know that he had asked a mutual friend to invite me to an event (because it would be useful for my work); he was disappointed when he learned that the friend had already contacted me earlier that morning. So, like the cat that brought home a dead mouse as a gift (peace offering?), his thunder was stolen.

During that conversation, I sounded cool and indifferent. I did not ask how he had been. He picked up on this, muttering under his breath that I "didn't even ask how he was"!

Anyway, he has been texting and calling the entire week - all ignored (NC - or, at least, 7 days' silence to mirror his disappearance). Then, earlier today, he texted an invitation for drinks next week and to "settle the [$$] issue" (I had earlier asked him to pay me some $$ he owed, at his request). I was somewhat taken aback by this, as to me, there is no "issue", I had merely asked for repayment on HIS request. This text was followed by more calls and texts - no reply. Finally, he texted "Since my calls were unanswered, I propose an alternative arrangement: you keep the [some items] for the $$ I owe you. Is that ok? I don't expect an answer so silence is consent. Have a great weekend"

My reply? "That's a pity. I want a man who knows what he has when he had it."

Mirror - this guy has some balls (and an out-sized ego and sense of entitlement). It's ok for him to disappear for a week and five days prior, through the weekend, etc. and five days into NC, he throws this tantrum!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous With the Clever/Crafty Ex,
"this guy has some balls (and an out-sized ego and sense of entitlement). It's ok for him to disappear for a week and five days prior, through the weekend, etc. and five days into NC, he throws this tantrum!"

That's okay - let him throw it. A taste of his own medicine and being on the receiving end of his own treatment is what he needs -- so that he develops some sense of self-awareness and an understanding of how this treatment (his treatment) and behavior impacts others.

I think that last message was meant to provoke a reaction from you. He's frustrated that you're not making yourself as available to him as you once did in the past. But hey, that's what happens when you take people for granted. That's what happens when you don't treat them as if they're a priority -- they no longer treat you as one either. That's the consequence of treating others poorly. They risk you treating them the same way.

If he wants you to treat him as a priority, then all he has to do is treat you like one. It's really that simple. And hopefully, some time on the receiving end of that lesson will help him absorb it so that he can grow from it and show people his best self, versus showing them the not-so-impressive side all the time (yet expecting them to be "wowed" and impressed by it).

It's almost as if, when he decides he has time for you, he expects you to drop everything and stand at attention for him. Even though he does not grant you the same in return. Give him plenty of time and space to figure that out.

If nothing more, this will be a good lesson for YOU. If he misses the lesson in this for himself, then so be it. He will not grow, and he'll continue to make the same mistakes until he learns. But that's not your concern. Your only concern is yourself. So use this experience to learn and grow from, so that something positive can come from something negative ;-)

Anonymous said...

You are right, as always. If all that was not enough to make me even more determined to see through NC (possibly for good), his next text (in response to my last text about a man knowing what he has when he had it), mirroring my response time, certainly is:

"When you have that man, I am awaiting with a bouquet of roses to congratulate you immediately. May take time but don't despair because one is always lurking around to test those options. If you change your mind within the next 3 days, please text so that the drinks date will be kept."

Sorry for my French, but WTF?! I am done with this arrogant, entitled, selfish a**hole.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, they sure don't like it when you pull a "him" on him.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous With the Clever/Crafty Ex,
"his next text (in response to my last text about a man knowing what he has when he had it) is:

"When you have that man, I am awaiting with a bouquet of roses to congratulate you immediately. May take time but don't despair because one is always lurking around to test those options. If you change your mind within the next 3 days, please text so that the drinks date will be kept."

He's just revealed himself to you.

While his response reeks of emotional immaturity, it DOES give you a TON of insight into his character as a man, and also into his hidden agenda concerning you. Do NOT respond to that -- he's taunting you and that response is meant to provoke you. Instead, have a good laugh over it because honestly, all things aside. . .it is quite funny LOL ;-)

This response is actually telling you a lot. And what it's telling you is:

1) He's frustrated that he's lost control over you.
2) He's admitting that HE was "lurking around to test those options" - to gauge if there are potential sexual options that exist with you for him. He's projecting that onto other men, but the reality is that him even making that statement and thinking that way tells us that HE THINKS THAT WAY and likely behaves that way, too. Otherwise, there's no reason to make a very specific comment like that. He just completely gave himself away by doing so. He's playing games here, and he's not even smart enough to not reveal his cards.
3) He's obviously out of his mind. He thinks you're still going to consider keeping a drink date with him, or one that involves him, after he just basically told you in his response that HE IS NOT THE MAN WHO APPRECIATES AND VALUES YOU. . .which is why he's requesting to meet that men when you do find him LOL.

So there you have it -- the universe, with the help of the jackass it's working through LOL, just confirmed for you that this man isn't worth another ounce of your time or attention. That's a gift. You are now free to move forward without guilt or remorse so that you can find that man who DOES appreciate and value you. The one that WILL make you a priority in his life and treat you with dignity and respect. The one that WANTS to spend time with you, versus disappearing on you whenever the mood strikes him. The one that is mature, responsible,d dependable and knows what he wants, versus the one that is immature, irresponsible, inconsistent and unstable.

Spread those wings and fly dear ;-)

Stay silent. . .at least until it's time to text this Tool to arrange for that congratulatory bouquet delivery ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

P.S. Ladies, this man just gave you all a gift, too. Read this line he wrote again and again, "one is always lurking around to test those options." Keyword there: options. Many men tend to treat dating like a sport - a game. They don't necessarily always do this with malice, it simply leans towards their love of competition and the challenges that sporting games present. They can't help but view dating much the same - it presents competition, challenges, enjoyment and big wins.

And what gives you the upper hand to win in a competition like that? Lots of options.

So when dating, please, please, please do NOT put all of your eggs in one man's basket. Because I can assure you that HE has NOT put all of his eggs into ONE WOMAN'S basket. . .unless he's willingly entered into a commitment with her.

When you're single, you're free to mingle. Period, case closed. And you should keep your options open as well. When you're making huge emotional investments into one man - a man that isn't making the same amount of personal investment into you (priority) - all you're doing is setting yourself up for hurt and disappointed. So don't invest heavily up-front into those that aren't doing the same for you in return.

Do not rush in. Do not attempt to take control. Do not try to "do, do, do" stuff to speed things up. Instead, keep things fair, balanced and in perspective by proceeding slowly and observing the man's actions and behaviors towards you so that you can determine if he's even a man worth making investments into in the first place.

And in the meantime, just enjoy the entertainment that the hapless fools provide.

As for you Anonymous With the Clever/Crafty Ex, he's falling off his game here and that last move he made just gave you a big win today.

You should be proud of yourself for standing your ground with him and successfully navigating all the pranks he's pulling out of his hat in an effort to win. He's resorted to cheating and playing dirty, which signals you've got one up on him and he feels threatened and - dare I say it - out of "options" with you LOL.

He brought this on himself. He had you, was reckless and irresponsible with your heart during that time, took you for granted and treated you poorly, disappeared and walked away. . .only to re-enter the game with a lame strategy that landed him in the dugout after he stepped up to bat again, took a swing -- and struck out.

Current score: is Clever/Crafty Ex = 0 --- YOU = 1 ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you again.

Ex is basically saying that what we had, and I, meant nothing. That we and I mean nothing. I "get" this but on another level, I am still trying to absorb the message. Truth be told, I am still reeling from it.

He fooled me - and could have fooled anyone, I suppose. Those long periods of NC (4, 6-7 months), and he always tried and came back, saying that he missed me, thought of me, etc. He could have fooled me. And there were acts of extraordinary kindnesses, not only toward me but toward others, his friends, including those less fortunate.

It is hard to walk away and not look back. This is hard to read but I guess it makes walking away - then flying? - easier. Thanks, Mirror.

Anonymous said...

Love your site, keep coming back again and again. I have a problem, i've noticed a pattern with the men I date. They are all deeply insecure. The latest guy, keeps asking me if I'm talking to other guys, and if I've ever cheated while in a relationship. He also "jokes" and makes insinuations, saying I must be on a date if I don't respond to his text messages quick enough in the evening. He has told me several times now that he doesn't trust me. All of this and we have been dating for just a month and we aren't exclusive. I have tried to calm his insecurities by reassuring him often that he is the only guy i'm talking to. I've tried being very compassionate with him. I'm starting to feel like a fool though. Another thing he does is, anytime I do anything "wrong", for example I rescheduled 2 dates because work stuff came up unexpectedly, he will give me a very hard time about it, he guilt trips me and he uses it as leverage to put in less effort with me, reminding me that I was the one who is untrustworthy and who messed up. Recently, I became very angry and emotional at this manipulation and his waning effort and I blew up and called him a bunch of names. He told me what I did was not helping and is now using my blowup as excuse to create a lot of distance, he basically tells me directly that because I acted like "x" he now needs space to figure things out. I have since apologized and have even told him I'd like to meetup when he wants to apologize in person. He said ok, he would let me know when, but for now he needs to get back to work. Unsurprisingly he has yet to tell me when lol. I'm finding this all a little ridiculous and immature, and I see what's happening here for the most part. He has not initiated texts with me now for about a week, he just responds to mine. It seems as if he has taken the upper hand in this dynamic and everything is now on his terms, and I'm supposed to just wait around for him to come back, which I will not do. Should I just ignore him when he reaches back out or what should I do in this situation? Also, how can I avoid insecure men like this in the future, I sware every single man I meet is a reenactment of this scenario to varying degrees. Thank You Mirror :)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror ! I just need an advice.I am talking to a man via online,didn't meet him yet in person.He invited me to have a drink before but i declined,had many important things to do .He said that he will invite me again one day.I was waiting for it but didn't come.He disappeared ,i didn't contact him.Then reappeared ,i replied after weeks then he disappeared again during his holidays.After 2 weeks i got a text from him "hey how are you ,how's life goin on ?Long time we didn't talk." I replied after weeks and we talked a bit, then he disappeared and reappeared again the same thing " hey ,how are you?Long time without talking " . I didn't reply. MOA ,i need your advice if this guy is worth for my time or not? Lack of courage to invite me?

Thank you so much MOA !

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 6, 9:09 AM,
"for example I rescheduled 2 dates because work stuff came up unexpectedly, he will give me a very hard time about it, he guilt trips me and he uses it as leverage to put in less effort with me, reminding me that I was the one who is untrustworthy and who messed up."

How does having a busy work life translate into being untrustworthy? There's no betrayal there. There's no lie there. And that's not considered messing up - that's called being responsible. You're being responsible for your work, and you were being responsible by rescheduling with him. . .instead of standing him up, or simply leaving him hanging without a rescheduled date for another day.

"he basically tells me directly that because I acted like "x" he now needs space to figure things out."

That's okay, let him figure it out. It's probably for the best. He's projecting a lot of his insecurities onto you rather than working through them himself. It was his constant need for reassurance, and his manipulative ways to attain it, that ultimately drained you to the point of an emotional display.

"Should I just ignore him when he reaches back out or what should I do in this situation?"

Well - did you read this article dear? Dating deeply insecure individuals is very draining and exhausting. Their insecurities tend to create lots of drama and unpredictable behavior, and their constant need for reassurance is emotionally taxing. It can end up feeling like having the life sucked out of you by a vampire.

So the real question is -- is this a man that's even capable of making you happy?

Does he ever bother to concern himself with you or your needs? Or is it always just about him, and his need for constant reassurance in order to feel good about himself? Because if you're not getting your needs fulfilled from this man or this relationship, then there's really no reason to continue dating him, ya' know?

"Also, how can I avoid insecure men like this in the future, I swear every single man I meet is a reenactment of this scenario to varying degrees."

Are you dating a lot of "macho" men? Or men that tend to be gym rats? Insecurities can tend to run deep in those two situations. Macho men tend to be secretly insecure and overcompensate for it by becoming full of bravado (in order to give others the impression that they're confident). And gym rats also tend to be secretly insecure as well, and overcompensate for it by pumping iron and staring at themselves in the mirror constantly to reassure themselves that they're valuable and "better" than other men simply because of their physique.

Those that have been deeply hurt in the past also tend to be insecure, and overcompensate for it by maintaining tight control over the other individual. And then there's the possibility that maybe you, yourself, are insecure and the Law of Attraction is at work here - when "like attracts like."

Any number of things could be taking place. But those are some things to consider. If you find yourself dating the same type of man over and over again, you need to step outside of your comfort zone by dating men that you normally otherwise would not have considered dating in the past.

Change starts with YOU.

The choices and the decisions we make everyday tend to be the things that manifest our reality. If you find yourself choosing to date the same type of man over and over again, and you keep making decisions to NOT step outside of that comfort zone. . .then you will continue to have repeat experiences in your life.

The best way to bring about change, is to begin to willingly choose to make different decisions for yourself ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 6, 3:28 PM,
"i need your advice if this guy is worth for my time or not?"

It doesn't appear that he's leading the situation anywhere but in circles. A man who disappears, reappears, disappears, reappears is generally a man that isn't taking dating seriously. His lack of consistency signals that he's not committed to dating in a serious manner and is most likely out there just seeking some good times here and there in a rotation of women that he circles back around to time and again when their turn in his rotation comes up.

If a man cannot be straightforward, come at you confidently and seriously, with a plan of action -- then he's generally not worth your time (he's likely just out there goofing around childishly and not taking any of it seriously).

Anonymous said...

Hey there, I'm in a tricky situation. I reacted very volatile and emotional in texts when he pulled back after our 5th date. We went from talking everyday all day, to him suddenly pulling back. I reacted thinking I could tell him off and end it, before he could get the chance to. Then I felt stupid and apologized for it several times. We are now talking again, however he is using my episode against me, telling me that I need to earn his interest and attention back if I hope to get back to where we were with his level trust, initiative and caring that he had in the beginning. He also wants to take things slow, saying I scared him with my degrading comments. He is basically making me work for him now. He told me if I want to see him, I need to be direct and make plans. Also, he no longer initiates any contact, only responds to my texts and calls. I guess I have dug myself a hole, and I'm not sure if this is a game he is playing or what now. I feel like he either lacks respect for me, or that he has too much self respect and is punishing me for my disrespectful behavior towards him. He makes it seem like he shouldn't be talking to me after the way I talked to him, yet he is, though he isn't lifting a finger until i prove myself. He said I can prove myself with time and example. I feel like I have zero power here, and I don't know how to change it. I'm "trying" for him, but I feel like I may end up getting hurt. I'm definitely not going to sleep with him now in this type of situation where he has all the power. He also told me, "this isn't a 2nd date, you can take some initiative with make plans and contact me if you want me, I already did the work in the beginning and you played hard to get, so you won there." I feel like I'm being punished over and over here lol. what would you recommend i do in this scenario? thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 10, 12:01 AM,
"I feel like I'm being punished over and over here. . .what would you recommend i do in this scenario?"

He's treating this like a game, which is why he said "so you won there." He's keeping score.

If he's really accepted your apology, he would put the situation in the past. He would not use it to anchor himself into a powerful position over you. It's almost as if he's enjoying watching you grovel, and he's practically admitting that. While I can understand that he was hurt, he should just be honest instead of turning things into a grovel game for his own entertainment. He could've just as easily taken some space for himself, put the brakes on, and gave himself a few weeks to see how he feels after processing his feelings. He's also acting like 5 dates is in deep too, which is a bit strange. Like as if, "Oh well, my work is done here, I worked at 5 dates. Now it's your turn to carry this for the next few years."

Truthfully, once things like this have happened, it's very difficult to repair them. Particularly when the other party isn't really working through their hurt feelings and being honest about them, and is instead turning it into a power play. And how will he decide when it's enough? How long will he hold this position?

Truthfully, I'm not sure I'd invest too much into this now. And I'd be more concerned about investing into ME after something like this, so that I could ensure I wouldn't let it happen again with another man in the future. I'd apologize to him for all that happened, wish him well, and explain that I've decided to go work on myself instead. So that I can make sure I don't do this to another man.

Because truthfully dear, if you do NOT do that and you do not work on yourself at getting your emotions into a manageable state. . .this will likely happen again anyways. So everything you're about to invest into him may be all for not if you don't invest time and energy into YOURSELF, to find out what the real problem is, what triggered you, and why you go that route when you have been triggered.

Does that make sense? You could thank him for teaching you a valuable lesson (show gratitude and sincerity), wish him well, apologize once more in a mature manner - and simply tell him that you've decided it best to invest into yourself right now, to work on yourself so that you can make sure this doesn't happen again in the future.

Because if you keep going without dealing with the real issue within yourself that caused this behavior. . .it's only going to repeat itself anyway, ya' know? So it might be best to not date anyone for a while, do some inner work and exploration, and THEN date once again when you're in a better place and have higher odds of success working to your advantage.

Anonymous said...

HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST. I broke up with my ex four months ago, and all this article was his exact description. Omg. I simply can't believe how accurate your article is. mind you, I never slept with him. We lasted only two weeks but before that, there was a year of extreme crazyness with him and doing all of this. It's been merely four months and he's already been with two different girls. I pity them... mostly the girl that came right after me because she would see me and smile for herself, as in laughing at me... and well, seems like he probably used her for sex and dumped her to get his next prey. He is still trying to make me feel jelaous by walking in front of me holding hands with them or laughing or kissing them - truth is, I am so, so glad that I got rid of him for good. I tried to take distance two times prior to the breakup as a couple. A weight has been lifted off my shoulders and I have even improved. I wish luck to this new girl because god knows what he will do to her and for how long. THANK YOUUUU

Anonymous said...

I was married to an insecure man for 25 years. Unlike the characteristics outlined, mine was a good provider and successful. Don't be fooled that the insecure man is a user and a leech. Because I never trusted my own judgement (second guessed myself all the time), it took me 25 years to figure out why he was always right and I was so 'stupid'. He always said I was more intelligent than him, but his veiled discussions with me always left me believing him superior to my own thinking. I was 20 when I got married and didn't have a point of reference to compare to. Had I been my own woman long enough, I would have challenged his thinking more...but even my sister in law ,who is with his twin brother, was once a strong, independent, opinionated woman who eventually quit challenging her husband. In the end, trust your instincts, don't ignore them. Question them and if you need to figure out why you have your spidey senses tingle, see a therapist to help you make the link to why you feel the way you do and how to spot the triggers. My (ex)husband is a loving and caring man, and though we have been through too much for me to be with him again, had I had therapy at year 10, we could have lasted a lifetime together. The insecure man isn't a lost cause - learn how to communicate through therapy. If he isn't willing, then go yourself and learn how to communicate with him.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 7, 9:15 AM,
Thank you for sharing your experience :-)

While I understand that you attended counseling to assist with your 25 year marriage, most of the women here are not married. And while I think that was the wise thing to do -- I would not advise women who are only dating men to attend counseling just so they can learn how to specifically deal with an insecure man. It's a personal choice and if they are truly invested in the man, then I can see that being the case.

However, I do not think that a woman should be required to go to this extent just TO DATE a man. Married, yes. Dating - not so sure about that one. Again, it's a personal choice. But the general idea that a woman must INVEST, INVEST, INVEST to win a man over and teach herself how to deal with his problems -- just to date him -- not so sure I agree with that.

As it is, women already give and invest way too much into the men in their lives by "do, do, doing" for him on a constant basis, while sacrificing themselves and their own happiness in the process. In a marital situation, yes it's necessary to try harder and invest more because you've already make that commitment.

But in a dating situation, I do not believe that a woman should be required to go to this extent simply to date a man, when:

1) She's not married to him and has not made that commitment to him.
2) There are a lot of men out there that do not require this type of investment up front, and that do not need this hefty type of investment over the long haul.

I see you blaming yourself in your comment "we have been through too much for me to be with him again, had I had therapy at year 10, we could have lasted a lifetime together." Basically, you're stating that YOU were the problem, and had you received therapy long before, YOU could've fixed YOU and been with him.

So let me ask you -- did your husband attend therapy for HIS INSECURITIES??? Did your husband do anything to help HIMSELF or your marriage?

"If he isn't willing, then go yourself and learn how to communicate with him."

How are you supposed to work through problems with a man that ISN'T WILLING to admit that HE has any? And why should only the woman try to work through the problems, without the man doing his part and his share of the work as well?

I mean no disrespect and I truly thank you for sharing your story. Truly I do. However, I see you blaming yourself, taking all the responsibility to fix the marriage on yourself, and then participating in counseling all by yourself. . .and in the end, all of that investment you made did not help -- likely because your husband was "unwilling" to admit that HE was a BIG PART of the problem.

It takes two to tango dear. So do not blame yourself for your husband's unwillingness to do the work necessary to maintain a marriage and relationship.

And ladies, before you make this type of hefty investment into a man you're dating -- think twice about his willingness to do the same ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear mirror
I been reading your blog for the last few days and I am finding it so helpful .
My story is a bit different and I am hoping you are able to give me advice.
I am not after a relationship as I am recently divorced however I am looking at entering into a purely sexual and emotional relationship with no strings attached, but still with respect and integrity for each other.
I recently met this man who was chasing me a lot at the start. He took me out for drinks and we would simply get to know each other. On the third and fourth date he would kiss me and he would constantly text me interested what I was up to, but also we would exchange sexual desires and fantasies.we both agree that the relationship is not about commitment, but fun.
After about 2 months he slowly started to pull back maybe due to his new job and he would send a text, I would reply and he would disappear for a day or two. After a week of that he texted and I didn't reply for 3 days as per your advice. Once I did reply he was back at full strength for a couple of days and he asked me out Friday this week for drinks and then to see where that leads to. This is about one week ago and I haven't heard from him since which is very strange as he always used to be in touch every day or every second day.
As much as it may be strange that I am not after a commitment I simply don't feel ready but I do miss the emotional part and the feeling of being desired by a man. I also don't want to be played but to do his in a respectful way. I haven't ever really initiated much contact with him as I have been reading your blog and I understand the man should do the chase, but I don't know if I should initiate contact as I don't just want sex and I miss the emotional part of him texting me that I am beautiful, wanting me etc
Any advice in regards to my situation would be very much appreciated.
Thanks for your time.

Anonymous said...

Mirror I could use your sage advice. I want to share another example of why you shouldn't date an insecure man. I met a man 2.5 months ago through a dating site. My mistake upfront was that he was separated and I knew that going into this. I should have walked away but I didn't.

At first he came across as having his life together and a good plan in place for what he wanted his life to look like but I moved very slowly. He wanted commitment quickly and I said no. Things went from bad to worse for him (he lost his house) and I stood by on the sidelines trying to provide emotional support but that was it. I didn't offer money, advice, my opinion etc.

He used to get so upset with me, he'd get jealous of my male friends, my lifestyle, my family. He'd get mad at me for what I wore. He thought that I'd cheat on him. Most of the time I'd tell him to knock it off but eventually I started withholding stuff from him, like where I was going and who I was with, just to avoid a confrontation. He admitted he was very insecure and needy. He kept asking me why I was with him. Honestly, I had a hard time breaking up with him, I wanted him to end it since it seemed that life was kicking him again and again and I felt bad. I soon realized that life was kicking him because he was avoiding all of with his problems.

I continued to distance myself from him by spending time with my friends, exercising and my work and I wasn't really available. I kept busy but deep down, I was very unhappy. One night, I saw his phone and there was a text message from another girl. I asked him about it and it was a girl he hadn't seen in over 10 years, she lived in another state, they'd been texting for 1.5 months. He cried, he apologized and begged forgiveness. He said he did it because I wouldn't commit to him(he's right, I told him I'd consider it after his divorce and when he got the rest of his life in order.) He also said he was afraid to be alone.

I told him that I didn't think I could move past this. I didn't want to get all twichy if he was texting and I didn't want to worry he'd cheat on me. Well, that was it. He said "since you can't trust me, you'll cheat on me!!" I'm like WTH? I've never cheated on anyone in my life! He was projecting of course, because that's what I think he'd do. That was the last time I saw him. He was either fired (he was on the brink of being fired too!) or he quit his job and moved away within a week to be with this woman. I see he's back on the dating site we met-his profile is hidden but he must be looking online at women.

I know I dodged a bullet and that I shouldn't have been with someone who was separated. I guess the part I'm struggling with the most is the end, when he turned it on me. What the heck was that??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 8, 3:46 PM,
"I guess the part I'm struggling with the most is the end, when he turned it on me. What the heck was that?"

Have you READ this article?

If not, read it through. If so, re-read it. Much of what you're asking is explained in the article in detail:

"Insecure men are never responsible and never accountable. And if you attempt to make them become that, they are not above spinning that back onto you. . ."

"Insecure men (and women) are incredibly manipulative. They’re very adept at getting their negative needs fulfilled by others (because they can’t provide that for themselves). One can almost view them as the vampires of society in that they tend to suck the life out of those they’re partnered with via the hefty need for constant reassurance they have. “Maintaining “ them becomes a full time job."

"Loyalty is not their thing and they will start to be dismissive of you entirely (not that they were ever really that attentive to you and your needs in the first place), eventually disposing of you when another more promising opportunity (victim) comes along."

"Insecure Men Cheat and are Opportunists in Life - The needs of insecure men are so hefty that many times, almost all the time, you’ll find that they’re also cheaters (insecurity and cheating tend to go hand in hand). Because the needs of insecure individuals are so very hefty, many times it takes more than one individual to fulfill them. Even if they weren’t outright seeking to fulfill those needs from several others, rest assured that when the opportunity presents itself - they will take the offer up. This is the reason that a lot of the cheating that occurs with insecure individuals is actually “opportunistic” in nature."

Bottom line -- understand that HIS behavior is NOT a reflection of YOU. He is who he is. No matter how nice you are, no matter what you do or have done, nothing changes who these individuals are. . .except years worth of inner work that THEY have to do themselves.

Personally, I think that people who are constantly accusing others of cheating on them, are worried that their significant other is out there behaving like THEY ARE - making the same choices in life as THEY ARE.

When someone shifts the blame off of themselves and directly onto you without any valid reason to do so -- all that tells you is that they're hiding something that you were getting too close to finding out.

I'm not saying this man was cheating on you. All I'm saying is. . .thank your lucky stars that this ended sooner rather than later dear. Because that could've been you. You're correct. You dodged a bullet here. Don't question why - just be thankful ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 7, 11:11 PM,
"I don't just want sex and I miss the emotional part of him texting me that I am beautiful, wanting me etc. Any advice in regards to my situation would be very much appreciated."

Here's the thing -- you're looking to have your needs fulfilled by a man that has not made a commitment to you and agreed to provide that to you :-(

Don't get caught in that trap.

This is why I truly do not advocate casual sex. Women form emotional attachments via physical contact while men do not. So more often than not, women come out on the losing end of that type of arrangement unfortunately.

Any time you enter into a "fling" or "brief affair" with someone, man or woman, you have to accept that the situation has an expiration date on it from the day it starts. Casual flings and affairs are brief - always. And you cannot begin to rely on the individual for much of anything, let alone to fulfill your emotional needs, because of this.

"I am looking at entering into a purely sexual and emotional relationship with no strings attached"

You can't have an "emotional relationship" with someone without having strings attached. EMOTIONS ARE STRINGS :-(

I think that what you're truly seeking IS a relationship. You're seeking to make a deep emotional connection with someone. . .and that IS a relationship. While you may want to enter into it very slowly, the reality is that what you seek is truly defined as a relationship.

And if that's the case, steer clear of casual sexual arrangements - because you will get hurt in one if you don't. You will not find that a casual situation fulfills your emotional needs in the long run, because they will always end abruptly and without warning. And you will find yourself abruptly cut off from the emotional fulfillment you seek when that happens.

Before proceeding, give that some serious thought.

In the meantime, regarding this "I don't know if I should initiate contact as I don't just want sex and I miss the emotional part" -- if it's simply sex you seek, no harm in initiating contact. However, if it's emotional fulfillment you seek, there will be harm if you initiate contact. . .because this man has not agreed to a commitment that would require him to fulfill your emotional needs, and if you pursue that, he will flee. He will feel, and sense, that you secretly want "more" from him than just sex, and you'll get hurt as a result :-(

Anonymous said...

Great response!

Anonymous said...

Hello, wanted your thoughts on this. I exchanged numbers with a guy back in July, from online dating. We texted here and there, and had a few phone convos, since then up until now. I blew him off at suggestions to meet, because I was preoccupied dating other people. This entire time, he told me his status was divorced no kids. (he is younger than me) Well I decided to meet him last week for a date. We had a good time. However, some things seemed a little off to me so I decided to google his name, and found out he has 2 kids from 2 different women. I confronted him about it yesterday, very upset, and he said if I had known the truth I wouldn't date him. He was not remorseful at all for lying to me, and said it's just fact, and "it is what it is". He even got irritated with me for finding out. And now he seems mad at ME! I just have no words. I would have appreciated the truth from the get go in July. Neither of us are heavily invested in this yet, but his lying shows a lot about his character, as does his lack of caring/remorse after the fact. He comes off as a very insecure immature boy to me. What would you suggest in a situation like this? We're in our late twenties/early thirties.
Thanks Mirror!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 17, 6:11 PM,
"What would you suggest in a situation like this?"

I would suggest moving on and never speaking to this man ever again. A man who deceives you from day one is never going to be a man that you can trust. And if he's willing to lie about something like that, he'll also lie about a lot of other things as well.

Move on - and away - from this one.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror.I am really confused now.I dated a guy 3rd time already.He plans in advance,was very attentive when he is with me,he is so charming and open doors.I like him a lot.But i would like to know what his intention is,if he is for serious relationship or not.The problem is he only calls me when he wants to make plans in advance and then text me for the confirmation,that's all.Is this a bad sign or i should wait and observe first ?
Thank you Mirror ! :- )

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 20, 3:24 PM,
"Is this a bad sign or I should wait and observe first?"

You're going to have to invest the time to get to know him a bit better first, before you're able to determine his character as a man.

Anonymous said...

EX and I had on-off relationship due to a 2 hr drive distance between us. It started 2 years ago, we loved each other but parted, then we come back every couple of months to text or talk on the phone. He brought up his feelings out of the blue one day. Said he loves me and always will. I am a beautiful person, I am his sweetheart, we are compatible and he simply can’t let me go. I got all emotional inside after hearing this. I replied back saying similar things and told him I was worried I would lose him entirely one day.

Well we are looking at almost 3 weeks and he never replied back to me at all! I still love him. We have known each other for a long time, have kept in contact. Then I pour out my heart like that and he VANISHES. No further texts or phone calls, NOTHING.

I am extremely hurt and just wanted to keep in contact like we had been doing. I never brought up any “relationship” talk. Mirror, why would he bring up his feelings, I reciprocate and he just goes MIA? I have not reached out further as I wanted to see if he would follow up. He hasn’t!

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror.Thanks for your advice. This is from December 20, 2016 at 3:24 PM.

Now we are on fifth date and still he is using the same pattern :)
After our fifth date on Wednesday,he scheduled our next date which will be on Sunday.
I accepted it.
Thursday he texted me to say hi ,if i am okay.
Now the problem is when i replied and asked him questions ,he didn't answer but online
time to time.
Then i knew he would call me to confirm the date.He indeed called me today,Saturday at 10 pm but i didn't answer.He then sent me a text to say hi if i am okay but i remain silent.

What are your thoughts about this MOA? I felt like he ignored me while i am trying to communicate with him in between dates.Also i feel that he is dating many people ,a rotation, and now it's my turn.
I don't like that he will only contact me when he wants and when i try to talk to him he cut it off.
So i mirror and ignore him.

Am i doing the right thing or just over reacting?
Also after a month ,i am not impressed ,it's like he is still a stranger to me.
Plus he invited me to go back to his place by the third date just to kiss as it was cold outside ,but i refused.

I can give him one last chance only if he gets the hint that i want a real talk in between.
Tomorrow supposed to be our date but i don't feel to see him.

What will i reply Mirror if he will contact me again one day and wants to see me.Also if he will say that i ignored him and cancelled the date without a notice how will i respond?

Thank you mirror and sorry for my English by the way .
Happy New Year and i wish you all the best !


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 7, 6:20 PM,
"What are your thoughts about this MOA? I felt like he ignored me while i am trying to communicate with him in between dates. Also i feel that he is dating many people, a rotation, and now it's my turn."

If this man is not making you happy, and is not giving you the impression that he's willing to make you a priority to make you happy. . .then there's no need to continue seeing him.

Changing him is NOT an option.

He is who he is. And he's shown you what he has to offer you. If he's treating you like a casual afterthought and is not making you happy, then it's probably time to move on if your'e not enjoying yourself.

"Also after a month, i am not impressed, it's like he is still a stranger to me."

Then it appears that he's not making you happy, dating him is not enjoyable for you, and all he's doing is stringing you along, not moving things forward, and keeping you as an option.

As I stated above, you cannot change him. You cannot control others. You can only control your reaction to them. And if his actions are making you unhappy, there's no need to waste any more precious time dating him, because doing so is likely keeping you from meeting a man that WILL make you happy and treat you like a priority.

"I can give him one last chance only if he gets the hint that i want a real talk in between."

If he's not serious about this, and he's only out there casually dating several women in a rotation as you suspect. . .then chances are he's not interested in seriously dating one woman. Chances are he's not interested in establishing a committed relationship. And if he's not interested in establishing a committed relationship with one woman, he's likely always going to treat you and dating in general as something he's not really all that serious about.

But at least you gave him a chance, you've gotten to know him a bit better, and you've given him time to lead this forward. So now you know this isn't a good fit, and he's not the right man for you. Now you know that dating him is not really all that enjoyable. . .and you can make a decision for yourself to move on, and away from him, to find the right man for you instead.

"What will i reply Mirror if he will contact me again one day and wants to see me."

Tell him that while you've enjoyed your time with him and you think he's a great guy, you're actually seeking to establish a committed relationship with someone and you don't feel he wants the same. So you've decided to move on and you've met someone else.

"Also if he will say that i ignored him and cancelled the date without a notice how will i respond?"

You simply tell him that because he did not have any firm plans in place with you, you made other plans in advance. And that because you did not hear from him until the last minute, late at night the evening before, you obligated yourself to something else instead because you had not heard from him in days.

That way, you're signaling to him that it's HIS lack of actions that caused this (and not your actions). You signal to him that he did not bother speaking to you for days leading up to the date, and he did not bother contacting you until late the evening before the date. You signal to him that it's those lazy actions of his that led up to you making other plans instead.

alice said...

Hi mirror
I just want to thank you so much for your blog and all the advice you are sharing. It has truly made a massive difference in how I approach dating now.
To make my story short I been dating a man that disappeared on me once already. He started out pursuing me a lot and then he changed jobs which made him pull back. In the attempt to keep him I started pursuing him which made him pull further back and finally he asked me out and I didn't hear from him for a week leading up to the date and for another two weeks following. When he finally reappeared I had educated myself on your blog a bit. Things went like this. He texted me saying he had been busy and asked how I was going. I waited 3 days to reply and I said to him that the bottom line was that he had pissed me off. He bailed on our date and he didn't follow things through or have the decency to cancel. I kept it short and straight to thr point. He truly apologised and said he didn't realise his actions pissed me off and he tried to keep the conversation going. I then disappeared and let my words marinate so to speak☺Continued below

alice said...

two weeks into my disappearing act he apologised again and again and asked if I would consider giving him a second chance. I replied and asked him what had changed and he promised me he now had more time and would treat me with respect and value my time going forward. I agreed to a second chance with the condition that we take things slow. Btw we haven't had sex yet, but we did a bit of sexting before he disappeared on me☺
We are now 1 month into his second chance and we seen each other a couple of times. He has been testing me a few times with once not replying to my text during a conversation. I simply ignored his text the next day and funnily enough he sent me another text the following day actually replying to the text he ignored in the first place. Haha I laughed a bit to myself when he did that, because he must have realised why I wasn't replying. Another time he told me about a dream he had which was very sexual in nature and had me in it. He was obviously hoping I would jump into sexting with him so I just replied and jokingly said it sounded indeed like a steamy dream and then I changed the subject haha.
I am currently moving to my own pace and I never initiate any contact. I live my own life and keep myself occupied with what I like to do. And most importantly I am not afraid to loose him because I know I deserve a great man. If he is not it there will be better men out there waiting to date me. It's funny how things are working like magic. The other night he took a about 5 hours to reply and when he did it was a bit late and he was asking me all these questions via text. I was on my way to bed so I didn't reply and the next day I was busy at work. Around 4 pm I received a text from him saying "seriously you have been in my head all day". Again I had to laugh because your advice about keeping a man on his toes, moving to my own pace, mirror his behaviour etc is just working like a treat. He is coming on so strong and it's feels empowering being in control and let him pursue and do all the hard work☺
Anyway he has asked me out on a date Friday and I agreed saying im available but to let me know the details and we will sort something out. He said he will let me know, but I am wondering what time frame would you allow in this case. If he contacts me Thursday the day before with a time and place to meet - would that be too late and should I say I now how other plans even though we did agree on the day already?
Additionally I know that men always pull back at some stage during dating to come up for air and I want to prepare myself. I won't contact him during this time as I will never initiate contact again, but when they come back after say 3 days should I still take 3 days to reply? Or can I reply after a couple of hours saying something like: it nice to hear from you again and then answer his question.
What do you reckon?
I really appreciate Your help and advice. You are like a mentor to me from far away☺

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alice,
"Around 4 pm I received a text from him saying "seriously you have been in my head all day."

Funny how when you go silent in order to give them something to think about, all they can think about is you LOL ;-)

"Anyway he has asked me out on a date Friday and I agreed saying im available but to let me know the details and we will sort something out. He said he will let me know, but I am wondering what time frame would you allow in this case. If he contacts me Thursday the day before with a time and place to meet - would that be too late and should I say I now how other plans even though we did agree on the day already?"

Generally, I recommend 3 days advance notice for firm plans to be set, because that's showing someone courtesy and respecting that their time is important as well. To wait until the day before is assuming that they have the possibility of no other plans - no life of their own, and they're just sitting around waiting on you. And to assume that about someone is rude and ignorant.

Everyone has a life of their own. Their time is valuable. And there are likely other people that would like their time as well. Men (gentlemen) who understand this firm up plans in advance as a show of courtesy and respect.

This is a personal decision, however. But you need to realize that if you choose to accept plans that are firmed up at the very last minute. . .you will likely get more of those "last minute" plans in the future. Because once you accept that, he will consider it acceptable behavior from that moment forward.

"when they come back after say 3 days should I still take 3 days to reply? Or can I reply after a couple of hours saying something like: it nice to hear from you again and then answer his question. What do you reckon?"

Again, this is a personal decision. However, you need to realize that if the man disappears for days, and then you're quick to respond the same day you hear from him. . .he will consider that acceptable behavior from that day forward (because you permitted it).

In both situations, you simply need to realize that whatever decision you make for yourself, you'll likely have to live with it from that day forward. If you permit last minute date plans, and you respond after lengthy disappearances immediately. . .you will most likely get more last minute date plans and lengthy disappearances.

Because once you accept that, there's no reason for the man to think it's unacceptable ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi again MOA :-)
This is Anonymous Jan 7, 6:20 PM,

Update: After i stood him up ,the guy called me again and i explained that there was no firm plans so i made other plans. I am planning not to see him anymore by the way.But during our conversations ,i asked what is that he is really looking for,he said that he is actively looking for a future wife but he is also available for short term and is dating two more girls.I didn't question him more...
Then in my mind ... Bingo ! My intuition was right .

MOA,what are your thoughts about it?If he is really seeking for a future wife why would not focus on it only?Is there any chance for them to find the right person if they are wasting their time for short term and casual ?He also said that he is really so busy right now,a lot of work ,seeing friends,doing sports,he has no time even to write to those profiles online(OMG he wishes to catch more fishes in the ocean ) ,blah blah , it's like telling me that those are the reason why he didn't call or text me often last time.Then why he can find time to date more girls?It is really very interesting MOA as i always fall for these kind of men.I'd meet them through online.Some guys are indeed busy in their lives and careers but then why dating ?

I am so glad really that i have learned a lot through you ,MOA.I am so grateful for that.
During my dates with him, I acted like a lady and as i read your posts ,i did things correctly.Then during that phone call he also said that i am kind of a woman who is not for hook up or casual kind of thing."I was like ,bravo ,you noticed it finally".

So my advice to all ladies here,always act like a lady.
Folllow MOA's advice. Do not initiate text/calls/invites,do not accept his invitation to his place,do not have sex till you are sure that he is serious or till there is a commitment,do not accept last minute invitation and last minute phone call,do not accept to be treated poorly and observe him well.Do not fall for his cute charming looks and sweet talk.Btw he is indeed soo attractive and very hot !(Sigh,i can't have this man,only in me dreams ) But it is better for me :)

A man can see if you are a hook up girl or a girlfriend material base on how you act.He will label you.

And as what i observed this guy was only contacting me when he want to arrange a schedule to date me and invited me on third date to go back to his place.Now i realized that maybe he was trying before to put me in a hook up situation but he failed it so he noticed that i am not in for that.

MOA if he is really looking for a future wife then why he is acting like that?It seems also that he is doing it with other girls that he is dating.It is not bad for me if he is just dating and exploring his options as well but why would he invite women to his place and have sex if it's possible ? Why is he acting like that if he is really actively seeking for a future wife? And how will he able to find his future wife if he treats every woman like that ? And take not he is in for a short term relationship.

All your thoughts about this is always highly appreciated MOA .Thank YOU !





The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 7, 6:20 PM,
"If he is really seeking for a future wife why would not focus on it only?"

Generally speaking, men don't date like that dear. Instead, they view dating like a numbers game - gambling. The more active, the higher the odds. The more women, the higher the odds. If you're putting all your eggs into one basket and you're only dating one person at a time -- you're odds of success aren't as good, and you're not covering as much ground.

This is why I always tell women THEY should be dating others as well (no sex), until a man asks for a commitment. Women get "burned" a lot when dating because they do NOT play the numbers game. Instead, they meet a man, shun all others away, place all their eggs in his basket - start to view things as if they're in a relationship way before a commitment is ever even brought up by the man - as a result they start to expect too much from him, he starts to feel the pressure. . .and kerplewie. Before you know it, he's slowly fading away, and the woman is left there wondering what went wrong.

What went wrong was that she basically committed herself to a man that never even proved himself worthy of her let alone ever asked for a commitment.

Men do not date like that. They hang loose, they play the field, they get the odds stacked in their favor and they enjoy themselves. They have no desire to pound things into a relationship from the 3rd date.

"Is there any chance for them to find the right person if they are wasting their time for short term and casual?"

Sure, because they're also likely dating another woman that they're thinking a bit more serious about, and trying harder to get to know over the others.

"Then during that phone call he also said that i am kind of a woman who is not for hook up or casual kind of thing. "I was like ,bravo, you noticed it finally."

Be VERY proud of yourself for that dear.

Whether this man would ever admit it or not, what he was saying there was that he respected you (much more than the others). That doesn't guarantee chemistry. But it does build respect for you.

"A man can see if you are a hook up girl or a girlfriend material base on how you act. He will label you."

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

He most certainly will.

"Now i realized that maybe he was trying before to put me in a hook up situation but he failed it so he noticed that i am not in for that."

I think things happen for a reason, and this was likely a blessing in disguise. Think about it. What if YOU HAD gone to his place? What if he HAD talked you into being intimate with him? What then? He's dating two other women and chances are he wouldn't have jumped right into a relationship as a result. You would've started questioning yourself, wondering what's going on, etc.

You could've ended up hurt. Because this guy was attempting to fast track you into the bedroom by the 3rd date. Gentlemen don't do that to women. Gentlemen do not expect that of them on the 3rd date. And gentlemen do not place them in uncomfortable, compromising positions on the 3rd date.

"MOA if he is really looking for a future wife then why he is acting like that?"

This man may want a relationship as he says. But his quick advance towards sex tells us that it's not likely a high priority for him at this time. Chances are, he sees himself in a relationship "someday" - years down the road. If he were truly serious about settling down, he would not be rushing towards sex. Instead, he would be taking the time to get to know you, and making a serious effort.

"why would he invite women to his place and have sex if it's possible?"

Because I don't think he's truly serious about finding a relationship right now. He says he wants one, but it's likely that he's sees himself in one years from now - and not months from now.

"Why is he acting like that if he is really actively seeking for a future wife?"

I don't believe that he's actively seeking a future wife right now.

"And how will he able to find his future wife if he treats every woman like that?"

His future wife will likely be someone that carries herself much like you did - like a lady. She likely won't go home with him, she'll be different. That will catch his attention, much like it did with you, and he will find that curious. He will take her a bit more seriously than the others, and once he's actually invested his heart into it - he will cease seeing the others, and he'll focus on her only.

The only difference will be the timing -- he'll ACTUALLY BE READY to enter a relationship. I honestly don't think at this time he's ready.

You only had 2 dates with this man dear, so don't sweat it. It didn't work out, and many times, that's how dating ends up. You've gotta' be emotionally tough and understand that when that happens, it's for the best. The man is NOT the right man for you.

When the right man for you comes along, you'll know it -- because he will not be able to take his eyes off of you. He will pursue you, he will ask to see you regularly, and he will take steps to actively advance towards a relationship with you, without pressuring you into sex first ;-)

Anonymous said...

OMG !MOA ,you are absolutely right.Indeed,it was a blessing in disguise.

I understood now ,that this man is seeking a future wife but not now ,it maybe 2 years or 10 years down the road.Even he sees me differently but if he is not ready he will not make more effort and one day will fade away .You are really right that women don't play the number games ,and that we should date others as well.

Thanks MOA.It is a blessing in disguise indeed ..a valuable lesson that i learned again :)
Take care always MOA : )

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