"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Dating a Disappearing Man, Reached Your Limit?

Dating a disappearing man that reappears periodically without notice, and after rudely disappearing on you without explanation, is certainly an experience that many modern day females can relate to.

This can be seen in the discussion of the topic on this piece titled “Disappearing/Reappearing Man: What to Do” which is no longer able to accept any further comments on the site as it’s reached the 5,000 limit.

Yep, I’d say a lot of you have been dating a disappearing man and have reached your limit. I’d go even further and say it’s a modern day dating epidemic. So what’s a girl to do?

Well, I won’t repeat the suggestions I’ve shared on that piece because you’re free to go there and study up on it. However, I will say that after a couple of years’ worth of discussion on dating a disappearing man, and after many thousands of personal stories shared there, it has become apparent to me that the best way to deal with a disappearing man who reappears periodically to dredge things up (before disappearing again) is to focus on yourself – and try your best to forget about him.


Probably not what you were expecting to hear, I understand that. There are very detailed suggestions listed in that article referenced above if you'd like to give it a try. But after a couple of years of observation and lots of discussion with women dating a disappearing man, it has become clear to me that when these types disappear on you, even if they circle back, it generally leads nowhere. And that’s not because there’s something wrong with you – it’s because there’s most likely something wrong with them.

Men who display this pattern of behavior generally do not correct it. I’m sure you’ve heard the old saying, “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” And the reality here is that we’re dealing with old dogs, ladies. Plain and simple – and they’re not learning any new tricks. They’re simply repeating the old ones over and over and over again for as long as they’re permitted to get away with it, which brings me to my next point.

People Can Only Treat You as Poorly as You LET Them


When we permit these patterns of behavior to play out in our lives over and over and over again, it should come as no surprise that the same outcome is simply repeated again as well. Yet it perplexes us. If he didn’t like me, why did he bother to come back? If he wanted nothing to do with me back then, why is he ringing my phone again now? It must mean he likes me. It must mean he’s at least slightly interested, right?

Yes, no, and maybe – for all the wrong reasons.

Is he interested in sex? Yes. Is he ready for a committed relationship? No. Has he hit a dry spell? Maybe. Either way you slice it, after a couple of years listening to stories from women out in the trenches dating a disappearing man, I can honestly tell you – I can’t think of one time, not one time, that it’s ever ended with “and they lived happily ever after.” I’ve read a ton of stories about women outgrowing their disappearing man (DM), or boring of him, or tiring of him, or meeting someone else in the 3 months it took him to make his 3rd reappearance. But no, in the 5,000 comments and stories shared, I’ve never heard a story that concluded with a “happily ever after” ending.

What I do hear is a lot of women beating themselves up, blaming themselves, wondering what’s wrong with them, questioning why he hasn’t called and asking when he will. And after a couple of years of researching this topic, I can stand here today and tell you – it’s definitely not you – it’s a modern day epidemic.

Behavior that was once considered abnormal is now slowly becoming the accepted norm. Hiding behind devices in texts and emails is making it even easier to transition society as a whole into the acceptance of this – accepting sociopathic behavior that displays no sense of remorse, guilt or empathy for the individual on the other end of the line. It’s easy to just disappear these days, because half the communication that existed in the first place existed in the virtual world, on a device screen, and not in real life. Gone are the days when you’d have to hold these discussions face to face. Nowadays, don’t like someone; don’t want to see them anymore? Hey, no problem, you’ll never have to speak to them again – just don’t answer any calls, emails or texts from them and voila’ – problem solved.

Throw in online dating and the endless buffet of easy opportunities there and what you end up with is a bunch of kids in a candy store, running around experiencing a fantastic sugar high that they never want to come down from. It builds the ego, it gives them something to brag to their buddies about, and they rarely, if ever, have to face any consequences for it. Hence, the birth of the disappearing man.

Ahh, utopia does exist after all, no?

The Mind Trip a Disappearing Man is Running on You


Many of these bad boy “players” are using a psychological tactic that they’re not even aware of (although some are VERY aware and well educated on the matter). They think they’ve got some magic sauce about them that women just can’t get enough of. But really, all they’ve done is stumbled onto a very real fact about the human psyche:


I just watched two men, both mid 30’s, on a reality television show the other night talking about women and dating - the issue at hand? One man had two great women on his hands. Sigh . . . problems, problems. Yet, he was patting himself on the back proudly about the fact that it was only two – which apparently is down from his usual norm of 8. Yea, you heard me, I said 8. And the other guy he was talking to didn’t blink an eye at that number.

So I think it’s safe to say – rotating 8 women at one time, misleading them all to think you’re “relationship ready”, talking about having babies and a future with them, and using them for sex until it’s time to move onto the next gal in your rotation – is apparently “the norm” in the lifestyle of many young modern males these days.

Should you hold your ground and level the playing field when dating a disappearing man that you sense has you locked into a rotation that he hasn’t exactly been honest about? Absolutely.

Should you hold your breath waiting for him to circle back around again? Don’t bother; it’ll be your turn again before you know it.

Should you pick up that phone or respond to that text when he does circle back around? Probably not – unless you want the first outcome to repeat itself a second time.

So What SHOULD You Do?


Forget having a “talk” with him and instead, do something constructive that will actually benefit YOU - and have that hard talk with yourself.

Ask yourself what it is that causes you to keep taking this man back. What is it that causes you to want to continue dating a disappearing man, despite already knowing that he’s not capable of making you happy or fulfilling your needs. Dig deep, because the answers don’t lie with him – they actually lie WITHIN you.

I repeat - people can only treat you as poorly as you LET them. If you do not permit people to act upon you, then you don’t get hurt, you don’t get used and you don’t let other people make you feel like crap over their shortcomings in life. You check their baggage at their door and you walk away into your future.

I’m not an overly religious individual, although I do consider myself spiritual – but when someone says something that is so very powerful it sends vibrations to your very core . . . then the message must be shared. Having said that, I’ll let Bishop T.D. Jakes take over from here:


“When people can walk away from you, let them walk. I don’t care how wonderful they are, I don’t care how attracted you are to them, I don’t care what they did for you 20 years ago, I don’t care what the situation is. When people can walk away from you, let them walk – because your destiny is not tied to the person who left.”

Can I get an AMEN, ladies!

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1060 Comments:

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Grateful from Europe said...

Part 1

Dear Mirror,

Thank you for reading through my story and giving me your insight. It helps to write out my thoughts here as I am really hurt by this - although we never did become exclusive I got attached to him as we girls do- probably more of the fantasy of what it could be as opposed to him (he lacks quite a few things I thought were deal breakers for me but funny how the fantasy thinking overlooks all of that eventually). It wasn't easy to read but you are right. I knew this deep down but I lied to myself the whole time thinking or rather hoping it was leading to a relationship and making excuses for him like he is slow to get into a relationship when in fact if that is what he wanted he would have made it happen months ago.

No, he didn't specifically say he wants a relationship (I overlooked this based upon my 'slow' assumption- seems like I overlooked a lot of things silly me) just things like I am the only girl he sees himself with, talking about the future with me in it, not wanting me to be with anyone else, him contacting me all day, being affectionate and cute etc so I assumed this especially after our great date. He is obviously not ready. All his friends are so much younger than him and they still like to party every weekend although as a man of 31 he should be over this by now. He even told me he is sick of short term relationships which never last according to him and 'crazy' girls (like you said HE obv made them crazy because of his behaviour probably sleeping with them and then not seeing them for weeks) and how he is glad he met me as I am so different and special so it's so confusing. I don't get it. If this is the connection he was looking for and he is sick of short term rubbish then why is he not excited for this and moving it forward?

Also what confuses me is after ignoring him for days if he was half interested then why did he get all fearful about losing me and take the initiative to go on a date with me and then subsequently plan a second one? I have been different from most girls - never chasing him (I haven't even texted him once first in nearly a year) ignoring him when needs be and making out I don't care if he is in my life if he doesn't want to be, all good things but on the other hand I also played it wrong- for the first 6 months I have always been available to him responding to his messages within seconds and talking to him all day and night. Maybe this is why I only got proper treatment and a date from him when I did the opposite and perhaps I should have done this from the beginning.

Grateful from Europe said...

PART 2
I think he is used to just having 'friends with benefits' situations with all these girls and didn't have an emotional connection with anyone which he does with me but doesn't want to give that other side up yet. Doesn't there come a point though when they get sick of these empty sexual encounters? He even said at the beginning it is so hard to meet someone who you have a connection with and he is worried he will always be alone (this was right at the beginning before we got to know each other). I think he is emotionally unavailable, needy, insecure and not ready. It is time I distanced myself like you say.

The worst thing for me though is accepting this 'rejection' of not wanting to be in a relationship with me and after speaking to him every day for nearly a year I don't know how to move on so easily as I have a stupid connection to him now. Everyone says I am way out of his league and can do so much better so I cannot understand why he is being like this towards especially with the mixed signals. It does hurt my feelings and I always feel like I am being personally rejected :-( Why is it more of an issue with him and not something to do with me (although I know I have not done anything wrong and I am so much better than him in every way)? I know I can do better but I feel like as he is not chasing me down for a date I feel so down and rejected.

I still haven't heard from him since last week which is unusual- I have a feeling he is wanting reassurance again and that he is waiting to see if I contact him first which I have never done and don't intend to. He won't hear a peep from me so he can be alone and keeping having his 'fun' empty sexual encounters. One day he will think back on what he lost. I keep meeting these unemotional unavailable dim wits it's so frustrating. Maybe it's the ego and I just need to work on myself though....I am trying to do this.

You are right about Guy B- its too early to work out his intentions and like you say he didn't act upon his words last time so I will see what he does but this time I will not make any moves towards him :-)

Funnily enough today I got a text from Guy C who I haven't spoken to in over a year- another unemotional unavailable dim wit. They all come back, it's crazy. He sent me a silly message of just a kiss face. Little does he know I am now equipped with Mirror armour and a silly little kiss face will result in no response.

Thank you Miss Mirror - reading my post just shows how emotional us girls are. I would never dream of telling him all of the above of what I feel! Probably a good thing as we all know now- emotions= run for the hills. Thank god for your blog.

Anonymous said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

Thank you for your reply re: the Insecurity/control issues that my DM is displaying.

'Because the cause (insecurity) still exists, and the fulfillment is only a temporary relief from it'

Yes I agree it makes purfect sense and I'm guessing too that these negative needs are causing him to reappear to get these needs fulfilled but they're never fulfilled but this is the essence of codependency...

I think the insecurity is more to do with his fear of losing control due to something in his past rather than him being insecure about himself in a confidence way but I do think that by having multiple women on the go it serves to heighten feelings of control and almost guarantee that someone will fulfill his needs LOL.

'He needs to become self-aware, he needs to become aware of how his own behavior sabotages his efforts...'

Hmm self awareness I think that most of the time this comes in my experience from learning through negative experiences and pain and while he may have had various women on the burner it has served him well as you can rotate them and never really have deal with any pain or negative stuff as there is always another women to move onto. So I can only see that he would ever come to have any self awareness until that supply runs dry and/or he comes to the realisation that this strategy of getting his needs met is just not working and is in fact causing pain. I believe that people in the main only change and develop self awareness through pain.

'If you truly want it to stop and he does become a nuisance, then you'll need to block his number or change yours eventually'

Well I have to answer this truthfully and if the truth be known I don't want him to stop contacting me but I want it to be on my terms. However, the harsh reality is this - there has always been two elephants in the room - mine is the fact that I want a relationship...his that he doesn't or/and he's not ready. It's all unspoken yet it's known and out there. His behaviour and him disappearing and reappearing without me saying a word has allowed it to continue, alright I could of not responded at any point. However, I don't believe that this would of caused him to look at himself and become aware of what he's done, I think it's so deep-rooted and he's been happy so far to continue in this manner of getting his needs met.

...and so I issued the ultimatum it was plain and simple and unemotional...I realise now that is still may not stop him from contacting me, but then again it may because inherent but unspoken in the message well the bottom line is that he makes a plan to see me otherwise the consequences are that I'm moving on.

So in a way some form of commitment is needed and that is exactly what he is running from and the disappearing/reappearing act is definitely a strategy that has been working for him so far.

If he contacts me again I could ignore him and not respond but I feel that I would have to say something to put an end to it realistically and make him fully aware of my view on things...


thanks again

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

what I will write now I would never have thought I would ever write a few years ago when I was not on dating sites. Well, today I went for a date with another guy I have been shortly corresponding with. He asked for my number, we chatted on the phone twice, he seemed to be "safe" to meet so I went although I sensed that nothing would come out of it (I went mainly because the trainer still sticks in my mind although it´s much better now). So I went to meet this guy. After about ten minutes he started talking about going swimming, to the sauna, asked me if I go to nudist beaches, etc., which means sex basically. (When I started meeting men online I wondered how many of them stated swimming as their favourite activity LOL). I didn´t respond to that and he lost interest. However, I must say that although he was rude, I am grateful to him that he didn´t play any mind games with me, didn´t stir any emotional turmoil in me and in comparison with the trainer he was honest. So yes, a few years ago I would have been offended by his rudeness but today I am happy that he didn´t play with me. What times we are living in (!)

I once again read all your posts about the trainer and I see the situation exactly as you wrote. So once again I must say how useful your advice is, especially when a woman is emotional and can´t see the truth clearly. With the trainer you spared me a lot of suffering. He hasn´t contacted me, not even to wish me a happy new year by e-mail or text, which proves your words that it´s about power on his part. I think if he was really sincerely friendly and at the same time didn´t want to see me anymore, he would have understoond by this point through my silence that I am not desperate or anything and being my friend he would have at least sent me new year´s greetings. My gut warns me that he will be back and hopefully, I will have moved on by then because I am afraid I might succumb to his tactics when I feel lonely.

So my overall online dating balance so far: An on and off no casual no dating with the cyclist (led me on in the early stages, later revealed his interest in FWB, I refused, he disappeared "for good" 6 months ago and reappeared by sending me a Christmas greeting); long and "meaningful correspondence with the trainer, two long dates, mind games, dangling carrots and disappearance; several first dates with men I wasn´t interested in; today´s date in which the guy openly suggested sex. Superb, isn´t it? I think I need a break (sigh). On the other hand, I think it´s good that out of the men I met I liked two at least. They didn´t work out but at least I feel there is hope. Maybe the next one I will like will not disappoint me. And another positive is that I am completely over the cyclist.

Sorry for venting about nothing new but it helped.:-)
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

Morning MOA,
Lady here (with mountain guy) with no cell phone coverage. Well, after a week, he emails me again (1 week between emails) and states he is going into town today... to Home Depot for supples. So, I'm pretty confident there's is a large enough town around that he could have texted me or made a phone call within the last week. Of course he knows I'm working and can't answer, but the point is... In one week he couldn't make the effort to inconvenience himself a little to make a phone call on my time, after work? Am I asking for too much? I feel a little put out and feel he is either not that into me... Or has another lady friend around, which I already suspected, as he already "set this up" before he left -- about not being in touch. How should I handle this from here?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 7, 7:09 AM,
"How should I handle this from here?"

Well, I can't walk you through this at every single turn dear. At some point you're going to have to rely on what you've learned and your own gut instincts to make the right decisions for yourself by observing his actions and touching base with your own feelings about whether or not you think this man is truly capable of making you happy - and then proceeding accordingly, ya' know?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful and the Ladies,
Hopeful, before I get going here, I mean no disrespect and I don't want to minimize what you've been through - but given that all we share here most times is bad news, I'd like to take this opportunity to find the humor in these situations and just say --- isn't modern day dating a TOTAL TRIP! I mean seriously, it's like one long, bad, b-rated Hollywood movie -- you can't make this stuff up, it's astounding. And while others reading here might think that your recent experience with the nudist is a rare occurrence, I'm here to tell you that I, too, encountered one of these men (a nudist) years back - omg, what a TRIP these guys are nowadays!! And get this. With mine - HE judged ME.

Yea, you heard me right. This man that went to the bar religiously every single day after work to drink for hours on end, AND conducted a 2 year affair behind his wife's back WHILE she was PREGNANT with their 2nd child, AND was a nudist - judged ME LOL!! He took to laying out the reasons he didn't think he could date me, as if I gave a damn. I was something I'll never forget. The entertainment value in that entire situation, still to this day, is not lost on me - the male ego is a truly wondrous thing LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
I almost forgot about Dr. Hook in my dating experiences as another humorous situation. I always called him Dr. Hook because he had a gold tooth - yea, a gold tooth. And not the celebrity kind, like, the old gold tooth kind - and this man was VERY proud of this tooth, he led with that aspect when introducing himself, like as if a man with an old gold tooth smack dab in front of his face was really something to write home about.

And lest I forget - the "man who was afraid of trees" - yea, trees people. He didn't like to drive long distances because seeing all the trees bothered him so much so, that he claimed to suffer anxiety attacks from it. And when I mentioned that I had a camp in the forest, I swear this man just about fell out of his chair LOL. You could see the pure terror on his face, imagining himself standing in the midst of an old hemlock forest, surrounded by large, old growth trees EVERYWHERE.

I'm not lying. Like I said, you can't make this stuff up -- and as I'm typing this, it's all I can do to stop laughing. I don't mean to poke fun at folks issues, but you know, sometimes you just have to find the humor in it all or it all just becomes way too much.

Trees - the man who was afraid of trees - he's out there ladies, lurking somewhere in the murky depths of the dating world LOL.

Anonymous said...

hahaha LOL thanks so much for making me laugh Mirror with what you wrote about Dr Hook and TREE MAN!!! I wonder what would happen if you would dress up like a tree for Halloween lol!!!!!
p.s. I wrote a post the other day but I'm not sure if it came through :) (Mary)
Thanks again for the laughs!!

Anonymous said...

I want to know are these guys dms, jerks, guys who disqualify you... are there really women who put up with this and respond to it? does these tactics work for them? if so is it usually young or dumb women who fall for all this bs???

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Mirror, that´s hilarious, I can´t stop laughing, tears dropping from my eyes, I can´t see anything for my tears...LOL Unbelievable! LOL
Yes, I agree that it would be great if we learned to look at all these experiences with humour and with an attitude "and so what?".
Have a nice day,
Hopeful:-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Michelle,
"have you ever experienced a more substantial reappearing act.. a guy that reappeared after, 2 weeks, a month, 3 months.. however long it may have been that seemed to have a genuine desire to start fresh and pursue you after you may have thought initially his interest had genuinely faded?"

Actually, I did - and I made the mistake of marrying him LOL ;-)

And I'm sorry to report that, in the end, it was just more of the same - only it took some 8 years to realize it and pull the bandaid off the existing wound slowly to heal. Don't get me wrong, he made great strides at first, probably for the next 4 years dating and about 3 years of marriage. . .only for me to find out that he had pretty much been cheating when the opportunity presented itself the entire time anyway.

So in the end, nothing had changed - he had just gotten better at hiding it is all.

Which is why I am constantly repeating that people ARE who they ARE. Nothing you do, say, etc. will change who they are, unless THEY want to change. And in my exes case, guess what? He's been with another woman for maybe the last 8 years or so - and the rumor mill in town is that he's STILL not changed, and he's doing the same exact thing with her.

Again, people ARE who they ARE - and when they SHOW you who they are, again and again, you should believe them.

And based on thousands of comments on the first article on this topic here on this site:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

I'm sorry to report that in all those thousands of comments - there are NO happy endings :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
"He asked: "What can I do so that you will have sex with me again??"

You know, if a man came at me like that and all he wanted was sex like that - I'd tell him, "You know, if it's really that bad, I'll throw you $100 to go get yourself a prostitute who does this for a living if you promise to leave me alone and stop asking to use me like that."

"he also said on the phone that words are just words...and that he wants to SHOW me that he loves me...Probably by having sex"

Next time he says that, respond with "Do you even know how to properly seduce a woman? Do you know what a woman needs? Do you even know the kind of love I need? Because I think if you did, this wouldn't be this difficult for you."

"What do I tell him, Mirror, if he asks me again if we'll ever have sex again?"

Respond with, "If you learn what I need as a woman and how to impress me and seduce me as one, then yea we'll have sex again." ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Grateful from Europe,
"I don't get it. If this is the connection he was looking for and he is sick of short term rubbish then why is he not excited for this and moving it forward?"

Ugh, I hate to say this dear, but I'm going to because in the long run, I think it will help you. The answer to your question is - because it was probably all a bunch of BS meant to just string you along so that he'd have a sexual option with you. When a man's words and actions don't line up - then it's just a bunch of flowery BS talk :-(

"what confuses me is after ignoring him for days if he was half interested then why did he get all fearful about losing me and take the initiative to go on a date with me and then subsequently plan a second one?"

It could be because he didn't want to lose a sexual option for himself - he doesn't want to have one less option for sex :-(

"Maybe this is why I only got proper treatment and a date from him when I did the opposite and perhaps I should have done this from the beginning."

ALWAYS set the standards of how you expect to be treated from the very first day - day one. Because if you start off "settling" for less than you deserve, then the man never feels compelled to step up his game and provide more. If less was good enough to begin with, then that's the best you'll ever get.

"Doesn't there come a point though when they get sick of these empty sexual encounters?"

No, not always. I know men in their 60's that still live like that. And the one's who do end up with regrets, only end up with them much later in life most times - like when they suffer a health problem or some other traumatic event and suddenly realize no one is there to care for them.

"Why is it more of an issue with him and not something to do with me?"

It's clearly HIS issue dear - if it wasn't, he'd be in a relationship, whether it was with you or not. He's not rejecting you, he's rejecting relationships and commitment - period.

Don't beat yourself up over it. You're not the only woman out there experiencing this, it's a modern day epidemic. Do not contact him and do not respond to him and you will begin to emotionally detach within that space.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

Thank you so much for your reply! :) LOL yes it's true and next time he asks I'll offer him so money to go find himself a prostitute!! haha

And this

* " Next time he says that, respond with "Do you even know how to properly seduce a woman? Do you know what a woman needs? Do you even know the kind of love I need? Because I think if you did, this wouldn't be this difficult for you." "

And:

* "Respond with, "If you learn what I need as a woman and how to impress me and seduce me as one, then yea we'll have sex again." ;-)"

That really helps me. I'm going to translate it into my own language (English is not my native language) and then I'm going to learn it by heart just so I'll be prepared next time he asks me. Thanks again, Mirror, you have no idea how much I appreciate your advice.

Hugs,
Mary
p.s. he described himself as being 'capricious' and he acted as if this is the most normal thing in the world!! ( capricious: adjective 1.subject to, led by, or indicative of a sudden, odd notion or unpredictable change; erratic: - there are even worse descriptions of the word 'capricious')

Anonymous said...

Lol @ old gold tooth! That's certainly a great conversation starter alright...Hilarious :-)

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my message Mirror. I wholeheartedly appreciate your insight.

Well, I read his other two messages. He said Merry Christmas and also said he 'hasn't heard anything from me'. This was followed by him questioning what he has done. He has not reached out since Christmas day... and those two unknown numbers never called back.

So apparently I am the one at fault because I'm not chasing him down and blowing up his phone to keep the relationship afloat lol. This is really the best that he could come up with at his grand reappearance though? After all that time, all he could think of doing was to deflect the focus off of himself unto me and blatantly make it clear that he doesn't care to lift a finger?

I did not feel one ounce of positive energy from what he said. He didn't show interest in what has been going on in my world. Though I would not have responded, a "How are you?' would have been nice. It didn't even seem like he was trying to be genuine, or authentic with his approach, you know?

I am done. If he has even a drop of decency left, he knows exactly why I have cut him off. Crickets will forever be chirping on my end. That's all he will be hearing. He will eventually figure out that I am really gone, but by then it will be way too late. It has gone past the point of repair for me.

Have a wonderful week MoA :-)
Thank you!
-Writing from Jamaica

Anonymous said...

Oh man pressed the wrong bouton and have to rewrite my whole story FML lol

Hi MOA.. Michelle here (Jan. 3rd 11h09)

Dude in question just called me now.. 8 days after I declined his last minute offer to see each other.. Remember I had also ignored his christmas eve text and he texted again asking why I wasn't replying..

So I was really caught off guard by this call as he's only called maybe 3 or 4 times out of the 2 month period we were seeing each other back in sept. oct.

Maybe I shouldn't have answered? I felt as though since I declined his offer and he had been seemingly "amping his effort" it was ok.. but really I just picked up without processing the information.. anyways heres how the convo went:

Him: " Michellllllle!!"
Me: Yes?
Him: How have you been.. Ive been thinking of you.. Im in your neighbourhood and figured Id destabilize you and give you a call haha
Me: ya its rare nowadays eh lol
Him: Ya decided to pull a throw back 2008 haha
Me: So whats up
Him: Just wanted to check up on you.. see how ure doing. thinking of you. going at the chalet for the weekend with a cpl buddies.. wanted to know if I could contact you upon my return?
Me: why are you asking me that?
Him: I duno in case you've met someone with whom you've fallen madly in love with.. in case you're sad or mad..
Me: Why would I be?!
Him: (mumbling a few words)
Me: Nah Im cool.. You can contact me if you wish to do so
Him: Alright that sounds good you have a great weekend
Me: You too, talk to you later!

(maybe I'm missing a few parts obviously but this was pretty much it)

Urgh the nerves on this guy.. Sad?! Buddy are you outta your mind?? You need to check your ego at the door because this girl here is cool..

And why are you calling me in order to ask me if you can call me upon your return. its absurd.

Should I have brought anything up when he said "in case you're mad or sad" .. i.e. (intermittent reappearances.. inconsistency.. flaking )..
I felt as though you always repeat to act indifferent and not bring up emotions.. so I tried to do that but maybe I missed the point?? Maybe I should've set him straight a bit??

Any input, comments and or advice will be greatly appreciated as always..

My plan now is continue to not to ANYTHING.. answer texts a cpl hours later.. Sound indifferent and only reward (slightly) good behaviour AKA: proposal of traditional date (and following through)

Correct? Anything else I should be reminded of?

I really want to follow through with the best strategy.. I do not want to fuck this up ..

The first time around I was never initiating but I realized afterward I was applying pressure in other ways ..

Im in desperate need of guidance here

But ladies... Honestly.. Like MOA always says.. A little ignorance and apathy goes a long way.. My shift in attitude ever since I started reading this blog seems to be fruitful already!

Just love this blog and sharing with everyone.. Ive almost finished reading the 5000 comments on the initial thread.. Awesome read

Michelle

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Michelle,
Well, not responding to this man after his antics has proved valuable to you in a couple ways here. So this is a great example of how this works in the male mind (or anyone's mind truthfully, even yours when men do this to you). So let's explore.

"just called me now.. . 8 days after I declined his offer to see each other. . .[and] ignored his christmas eve text and he texted again asking why I wasn't replying."

When you set clear boundaries through action (not picking up) instead of words ("talking" to him about why he's failing you), men know what that means - and they also know what they need to do then in order to have success - which is, pick up the phone and call (because the text antics are no longer working).

"Ive been thinking of you"

Of course he has - because you ignored him. You see, when someone does that to you, it's human nature for that to "stick" with you. As a result, you can't help but think about the person - nonstop - because of their unpredictable behavior. Perfect, LOL ;-)

On the flip side of that, had you not ignored him and instead, reassured him by answering and always being available to him - he'd have nothing to think about. Nothing to worry about. And no reason for you to remain in his thoughts. . .because that type of reassurance sets him "free" of that.

"I'm in your neighborhood and figured Id destabilize you"

Ha! Okay, translation: "I'm in your neighborhood and I'm destabilized by you ignoring me, so I'm calling you to seek reassurance so I can stabilize once again." The use of that word "destabilize" is no coincidence here. . .it's what's called a Freudian slip. And a Freudian slip is:

"A Freudian slip is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that is interpreted as occurring due to the interference of an unconscious ("dynamically repressed") subdued wish, conflict, or train of thought guided by the ego and the rules of correct behavior. They reveal a "source outside the speech"."

HE is destabilized, HE has been thinking about that a lot, and HE slipped up and a word that revealed his subconscious mindset worked it's way into his communication, a word that revealed his repressed feelings. A word that became an "interference of an unconscious ("dynamically repressed"). . .conflict, or train of thought guided by the ego and the rules of correct behavior."

In his mind, your behavior wasn't correct and it impacted his ego. It destabilized him. It's been on his mind. He's been thinking about it and you - and his subconscious thoughts interfered and the word "destabilize" popped into the conversation, revealing what HE has been secretly thinking and feeling. It also reveals that he sees you as confident, and he'd like to destabilize that a bit. Meaning, you threw him for a loop, and now he's attempting to do the same to you (by behaving unpredictably and picking up the phone and unexpectedly calling).

He also reveals many a modern man's way of thinking about dating nowadays too, particularly phone calls in the age of information, when he says "decided to pull a throw back 2008." He views that as outdated and somewhat unnecessary.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Him: wanted to know if I could contact you upon my return? Me: why are you asking me that? Him: I duno in case you've met someone with whom you've fallen madly in love with. . .in case you're sad or mad."

The truth is he's calling you to ask your permission to call you again because he's now feeling destabilized and insecure and he's unsure of himself now and he needs you to reassure him that it's okay to call. He KNOWS that his behavior was flaky and inconsistent, he KNOWS that you pulled back because of that, and he KNOWS that you may have moved on or been upset in some way as a result. He KNOWS exactly what he's done here. He's just dancing around the topic instead of diving right into it.

"Me: Why would I be?! Him: (mumbling a few words)"

LOL! He mumbled because his ego won't permit him to humble himself and just admit the truth - which is that he's poking around the topic because he thinks you might be upset - because he started behaving like an asshole and he KNOWS it. He just didn't expect it to go this way is all LOL.

"I really want to follow through with the best strategy"

Well, as you can already see, this strategy is working with him and it's giving you some of the power back. It's leveling the playing field, and now he's gotta' approach you with respect, as an equal, and stop playing games and being inconsistent if he wants to speak to you. Because he's already been put on notice, and received that message loud and clear, that if he does otherwise - it will backfire on him.

"A little ignorance and apathy goes a long way"

There's an old saying, "Silence will speak for you - if you let it." ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks so much for your input MOA!
Ive also decided to buy Why men love bitches.. Figured I'd need all the help I can to get into the RIGHT mind frame .. The more I read the comments on this blog and articles.. It really does empower me. When you start seeing clearly.. its not that complicated.. afterward its just a matter of sticking to it.. Ya sometimes your mind will play tricks on you but you gotta keep conditioning yourself in the " I am the desired object" mind frame.
Will keep you posted
Michelle

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Michelle,
I strongly advocate that women read that book. If they don't read any other book ever - at the very least read that one. It's message is not an uncommon one, but it is delivered in a very digestible, understandable way.

"When you start seeing clearly.. its not that complicated"

No, it isn't - it boils down to logic and common sense. I strongly urge women to set aside their emotions and instead, focus on logic and the use of common sense to see clearly. Your emotions will cloud things and cause confusion and mixed emotions. If you want to get to the pure unadulterated truth, you need logic.

"sometimes your mind will play tricks on you"

Well, in actuality it's not the mind playing tricks on you - it's your emotions. Your mind will always think logically. It's when emotions enter the mind that things begin to cloud up and become confusing - because the mind is telling you one thing - and your emotions begin telling you another. Thus the end result becomes confusion and a lack of clarity. Remove the emotions and suddenly. . .everything becomes crystal clear ;-)

One of the best ways to get yourself through these situations intact is to see things logically. To not blame yourself and start "performing" like a circus monkey for the man's attention - but instead, to logically lay blame where blame belongs (which is with the perpetrator who ignited the situation), and then to immediately cease "do, do, doing" in an attempt to control things that are ultimately out of your control.

If you can do that, if you can master that type of control over the mind and the emotions and successfully separate the two, then you will always be able to cut right through the confusion and immediately get to the heart of the matter. Additionally, you will not waste time spinning your wheels, exhausting yourself and beating yourself up.

Dating will become more enjoyable and less traumatic, your judgment and decision making will become greatly improved, and you won't waste your time getting hung up with emotionally immature men who aren't really cut out or ready for true commitment or relationships.

Melanie Callina said...

Mirror, which book are you talking about when you say "I strongly advocate that women read that book. If they don't read any other book ever - at the very least read that one."
?

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror of Aphrodite:

What would you do about a guy that disappears within a long-distance relationship (e.g. behaviour like not talking to you for a couple days, returning, starting out warm then doing the same thing all over again after a week?) I have been travelling with him for the past couple weeks, and before I left I told him I loved him - this is after 4 months of being in a relationship (and the first time I have said it!!). He has never told me he loves me, yet I always felt his actions said it. Anyway, he did not say it back, but he did not shy away from my confession either. When I got back, he started out messaging to me the way he usually does ( every day, warmly, showing he cares), but now it's been a couple weeks and he doesn't talk as much, he's been oddly distant, and I can't tell if something is bothering him OR if it has something to do with what I told him. What are your thoughts on a woman telling a man she loves him first? Personally I feel the right man will be mature enough to handle that - and not afraid of a strong woman who is able to express her feelings.
Lastly, what can I do about his distance? Thank you MOA.

Anonymous said...

Ok MOA its Michelle again..

So in attempts to not focus my energy on the guy in question whom we'll call Cancer guy.. Ive started talking to 2 other guys online who have set up dates with me respectively on Wednesday and Thursday of this week.
Both are not my usual type... They seem a bit on the geeky side and introverted, yet very career driven (finance) which is what I find to be attractive as I am career driven myself and particularly crave financial security..

With that said.. the Thursday guy seems quite shy and its making me rethink even going on a date with him because Im afraid its clear it won't work as he is struggling to converse through messages, so I can't even imagine what it would be like in person as its supposed to be easier in writing. I am on the shy side myself but I have worked a lot on the introverted part of my personality and Im proud to say have really come out of my shelf these past few years and have become much more sociable and less anxious in social situations such as first dates for instance.

On top of that, he is lacking the masculine energy which is a deal breaker for me.
For instance he said " I'm sorry I do not know what kind of questions to ask as I am new to this site..."

Urgh.. Buddy its not that complicated.. but even if it is. You don't question yourself in such a way that lets me know you're insecure.. I'm not suppose to lead here you are. I can't give you a pat on the back and tell you you're doing fine.. U know??.. its not very attractive and kind of turning me off before having even met him.

I'm rethinking going on the date as Im afraid my attempt at trying to date guys who are not typically my type is proving to be unrewarding. in this case anyway.

What you think? Think theres any value to trying it out, knowing 90% sure this won't work out as he's too feminine in his energy.. Not taking the lead, etc...? Like is it ok for me to filter him out at such an early stage or you think its worth going anyway (urgh I hate awkwardness and the thought of the date being filled with awkward silence is making me anxious)


Thanks in advance for your input :)
Michelle

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Melanie,
Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Argov :-)

Anonymous said...

Love Sherry Argovs book(s) but I'm secretly hoping that you will write a book one day, Mirror!! :)
Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 11, 11:53 AM,
"What would you do about a guy that disappears within a long-distance relationship (e.g. behaviour like not talking to you for a couple days, returning, starting out warm then doing the same thing all over again after a week?)"

Well, first of all, I'd have to "check-in" with myself to make sure I'm not assuming we're actually IN a relationship when the reality is it just may be a casual dating situation instead. If the man hasn't asked for a commitment, then it's not a relationship.

If he has asked for a commitment and it is in fact a committed relationship, then I would take stock of the situation and ask myself if I truly think this man is capable and WILLING to make me happy and fulfill my needs. If he constantly disappoints me, then I'd answer my own question with a "no" and I'd end the relationship to free myself up for a man who wants what I want and is prepared to provide that.

If I do think the man is willing and capable of fulfilling my needs and making me happy, then I'd do nothing but leave things continue as they are (because he's making me happy and fulfilling my needs so nothing needs to change).

"He has never told me he loves me"

I don't think it's possible to be in a committed relationship without the man ever professing he has feelings for you. Meaning, if the man hasn't professed feelings for you or told you he loves you, then it's not a relationship - it's simply a casual dating situation at that point :-( The only time it becomes a relationship is when the man professes feelings and asks for a commitment because he doesn't want any other men to come along and steal you away.

"What are your thoughts on a woman telling a man she loves him first?"

I don't think that's the way it should be dear. Meaning, the "leader, initiator" role lays with the man, not the woman. As a result, I believe the man should be initiating those things and then the woman's role is to decide if she wants to submit and follow his lead or not.

"Personally I feel the right man will be mature enough to handle that - and not afraid of a strong woman who is able to express her feelings."

But if he is indeed the RIGHT man. . .he will express his feelings first to secure you in an attempt to claim you as his own - to make sure that no other man can steal you away from him.

"what can I do about his distance?"

Sadly, nothing dear. You can't make someone love you or want a relationship with you. They have to want that too, and nothing you do or say can make them want what you want :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Michelle,
"What you think? Think there's any value to trying it out, knowing 90% sure this won't work out as he's too feminine in his energy.. Not taking the lead, etc...?"

Well, if you think this is a ruse and he's a player that's trying to play dumb here so that you'll take the lead and chase him down, then no I wouldn't bother.

But if your gut isn't ringing alarm bells, it can't hurt to go on the date. Once he relaxes around you, he may pick up and take the lead from then on. Either way, it's early enough that you've got nothing invested here, which means you've got nothing to lose by going on one date, ya' know?

If you go on the date and nothing changes, then I'd let it go because in that case, it's going to firmly diminish your attraction for him and there's no point in moving forward.

Gem50 said...

@ The Ladies,

I just finished Why Men Love Bitches and agree every woman (especially us here) should read this book and practice the advice.

p.s. I threw the lid of my laundry basket away yesterday; slung it right across the garage with one swift shot into the recycling barrel lol -- I can't believe I never figured that one out before either. Sheesh :)

piscesgirl said...

I just reread disappearing reappearing man a couple times over and created a shortcut on my phone! lol so I basically got my answers to my previous questions in how, what and when to text men.I know me and him have only been talking for a like a month now and I really cant expect daily communication from him since he hasn't asked for a commitment and we aren't technically dating just casually seeing each other but it really sucks when they get you used to daily communication and you look forward to hearing from them and then it just stops abruptly. ..and your left wondering why and if they will come back around. Luckily this one did but I now need to try and gauge where his mindset is at and if he is actually interested in me as a person or just as a girl to keep his bed warm at night on occasion. I responded to his message very casually I said hope you feel better being sick sucks and I took a good 2 hours to reply. I thought 2-3 days would be too long since he only disappeared for a few days and we aren't dating. Then he asked how was work and again I took at least 2 hours to reply and kept it very short brief and casual "long and busy! glad its over" then on my way home he tried to call and I didn't answer and I waited till I got home to send him a message letting him know my phone was on silent(not true) lol and I just got home and will call him a little later. So now he can probably sense some distance from me. I don't wanna be cold because that will prove to him that I care.I just wanna be a little less friendly and giddy to talk to him.If this is a game of cat and mouse that they enjoy so much im not going to take the fun out of it for him I will keep him on his toes by staying unpredictable and somewhat elusive lol I find this fun too now that I know how to play this game. I thought about it and I realized he probably pulled back after our last more intimate encounter because he didn't want me to feel like it was a boyfriend -girlfriend situation between the two of us. I think this guy is still young and enjoying his bachelor life and I think he does find me attractive and enjoys my company but probably doesn't want to feel suffocated by me or any girl for that matter. So I took your advice and gave him PLENTY of space and he came right back around to check In I guess. I don't like that he used the sick excuse but i guess he felt like he had to explain himself a little hahaha

chk61 said...

Good morning to all!
Thank you MOA, for the chuckles after reading your dating stories.

@Hopeful. The guy you met who quickly started talking about swimming, saunas, nudist beaches, etc. It reminded me of a dating site (run by a male dating coach) where I saw the phrase "men look for sex and find love, women look for love and find sex". Maybe Mirror even quoted that phrase here. So true. Men are looking for sex, and the savvy ones don't let on that they are. Savvy men know how to flirt in a fun way without making a woman feel like an object. Women want sex too, but we don't want to be used, we want romance and to feel cared for, and we still don't have the sexual liberties that men have (double standard still exists, OK for them but not for us). I think many men want to fall in love also which is why it is important for women to control the pace of the relationship and to allow some time to let the the man 'fall' for her, before sex happens. None of this is breaking "news", but worth repeating. ;-)

I was also thinking about my D.M. and how he contacted me in late August while he was dating someone new (who incidentally, I met briefly at his party - they had just broken up!) About six weeks had gone by since our last contact and he sent me one of those breezy feeler emails. He "tapped" me, or was "e-maintaining" me. At the time, naturally I had no idea he was dating someone "exclusively", and I believe now it was exclusive at least in her mind (he had taken his online dating profile down). Another woman I talked to at his party told me they had dated for a few months so I know he was seeing her when he contacted me. In that email he mentioned going to a place I love, that he had NEVER been to....and then he "dropped" the convo. Another 2.5 months went by when he emailed me from across the world. I realize now that he had probably gone to my favorite place with the new woman (I have no proof but it's doubtful he would go there alone).

So approximately 6 months ago I stopped initiating with him and he has contacted me twice - the second time he was on the other side of the planet. It is now about 7 weeks since I saw him at his party and I see he's back on the online dating site, as of the week after his party.

I'm not "counting" the weeks, really just sharing my story so others will see that when you stop initiating, when YOU disappear, they do NOT forget you. Your absence does pique their interest, even if they are dating someone new.

Curiously, the man I dated and fell for before the D.M. (someone I also obsessed about for years and it went nowhere - cautionary tale) did the same thing. A couple of years ago when he was in a new 'exclusive' relationship with a woman, he started initiating and contacting me more. I think men who fear commitment or have been bruised from a past relationship(s) like to keep their options open when a new woman comes on the scene and they are ostensibly developing a relationship with her. Their fear of being 'trapped' with a new woman makes them think about the ones that got away. ;-)

As for me, I did meet someone from the online dating site after Christmas and the date went well, he contacted me the next day to ask me out, contacted me the day before the next date to tell me he had gotten very ill from perhaps food poisoning, I responded with my sympathies, we traded a couple more emails and then I never heard from him again. That is online dating for you! This weekend I'm trying a different tack, using meetup group events, although for the attendees expected, the ratio of women to men is 3 to 1. Sigh. It's just the way it is.

Anyway, life goes on ladies. Know your worth. Don't contact that disappearing man. Words to live by! It's a new year with new possibilities. :-)

Anonymous said...

Chk61, I too briefly dated a disappearing man in the past. While we where dating he asked me if you had to go anywhere in the world... where would it be? I answered New Zealand.
He disappeared for a month then he contacted me, stupidly I saw him right away (before I read this blog) and he assumed I would sleep with him which was weird. I made him take me out he showed me some pics on his cell phone, then I took the phone in my hand and the words New Zealand popped up with him and then pics of him and some red head beauty.. she was hanging off of him, kissing him they where sight seeing on some cliffs. He turned beat read, couldn't say a word, composed himself after a few minutes then told me he would call me the next week, took off and I never heard from him again.
Whats up with this trend of guys taking the other ladies to the destination you tell them you want to go???
Mirror why is this??

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 14, 4:45 PM,
That's always fascinated me because I, too, have had the same thing happen. I had been there before though. Told the man I was dating years back it was a great place and I wanted to go back. The situation didn't work out, I had broken up with him, and the next woman he dated - he took her there. And then he took it a step further by contacting ME to tell me LOL.

Either they don't have any original thoughts of their own so they steal yours, or you stick in their mind for some reason, and they begin playing out the things they may have actually wanted to do with you - with someone else. Either way, it is quite strange.

Anonymous said...

LOL, Aphrodite.. that's too funny and it is QUITE STRANGE.

The next time a man Im dating asks me "if you had to go anywhere..." question and I smell funny or player Im going to list the poorest most depressing place I can think of...LOL.

chk61 said...

@Anonymous Jan 14, 4:45 PM: Wow, great story!

By the way, my D.M. did not take this other woman with him across the world. After re-reading my last post, I see that it could be construed that way. I know for a fact he traveled alone. Upon his return and after attending his party when I reconstructed the timeline in my mind I learned that he was 'exclusively' dating this new woman when he emailed me the first time. I also believe they broke up before he went on his trip.

The place he went, most likely with her although I don't have proof, was a beautiful state park that is quite well known. I was quite surprised that he had never been there since he's lived here for almost 25 years and it's about a 20 minute drive from where he lives. I go there a lot and had mentioned it to him.

And after reading Mirror's comment above, the fact that he mentioned going there...knowing it was one of my favorite places and he had never been there...and then he disappeared from the email convo, made me wonder.

I agree this phenomenon happens though. I've heard other stories, e.g. woman mentions a new restaurant to her boyfriend/man she's dating, and suggests they try it out, but they never go there. They break up, he meets a new woman fairly immediately and takes her to said restaurant. Woman is still single and still licking her wounds, finds this out through friends or social media or he actually tells her (like Mirror mentioned).

Maybe the best way to take such news is to think of it as a compliment. ;-)

Anonymous said...

I recently met a guy that lives in an adjoining state. We spoke on the phone daily, as he would call me 2- 3 times per day. We scheduled a date to meet in my state, and he was going to spend the weekend at my house. I made it clear to him that he would have to sleep on the couch. He called me twice on Wednesday, confirming that he was still coming to visit with me. Today is Thursday, and I haven't heard from him. I telephoned him this morning, and received no response. I refuse to call him again. I am hoping that he will call, but am doubtful at this point. It is almost time for him to get off of work (he works 2nd shift), and he still haven't called me. I guess another one "bites the dust."

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, thank you for taking the time out of your day to tend to the broken-hearted, the confused, and the damsels in distress, in general. I admit, I've been here a time or two and now I'm back for some advice...

I broke up with my boyfriend (of over a year and a half) and we recently got back together. I've written before about the commitment issue and you told me to be firm with "do or die time" if he comes knocking again. So, when he contacted me, I told him only if we go shopping for rings and we start making firm plans for our future. He agreed... and I can really sense and see a change in his attitude. I showed him the engagement rings I liked and he asked the jeweler to get my ring size.

While at his house recently, he left his email open and I admit, I snooped. I found about 4 exchanges between him and a past girlfriend within the last month (we were not together). They were not friendly emails -- he wanted to get some things back and she mentioned to please not to contact her again and she would get the items back to him through his brother. (They have been broke up for over 2 years.)

The two things that bother me are-- he still has her saved under his contact list. If his contact list were huge, I'd get it. But there are only ten of us and they are all family or close friends-- besides me and her. Another thing about his email is -- that he contacted about 30 people with a change of address (because he got a new email address a couple of months ago) and she was included in this list. We were broke up at the time, as well. Anyway, that's when she contacted him and said that she found his christmas stockings and she'd mail them if he would give her his address. Then, ensued the email exchange that I read, concerning the other items she still has.

One more thing that bothers me is that he tried to contact her a year ago when we were still together about these items he wants back. They had been broke up over a year at that point -- and he had been seeing me for about 9 months. She apparently didn't have them on hand, as they were in storage. When he recently sent her the change of address email -- she mentioned she found some of his things, as she recently moved and took them out of storage. He replied back, something to the effect, "I contacted you a year ago and you still haven't gotten these things back".... I mean they are somewhat significant items, besides the Xmas stockings that are worth some value, but I just feel his lack of commitment with me before had something to do with her perhaps -- and he was keeping the door open by her keeping these things in her possession? Or ... She does live 4 hours away, so I can see that he wouldn't be thinking about it everyday and maybe the holidays approaching last year reminded him of the items she still had? (What do you think?)

Anyway, she sent an email a few days ago about not hearing back from his brother to pick up the rest of his things. I was pleased to see that he totally ignored the email and forwarded the email on to his brother to see about it. I can see that it's definitely over between them by these email exchanges, but I feel like like [possibly] the "option" here and not the priority... It hurts. Should I just move forward and forget about it... I feel deep down he is committed this time but like I said... I feel it's because this door was permanently closed. Should I say something? Thanks for any advice mirror.
- Feeling sad

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

the disappeared dance trainer evoked more emotional reactions in me than I would have expected. I am still thinking about him, I have dreams about him in the night and in the morning he is the first thing I wake up with. He has become part of my daily life. I have been on a date with the sauna man but it didn´t help. At work no news so nothing to redirect my attention to. At first I had a hope he would reappear (and my gut still tells me he might but who knows if and when) but now I am trying my best to detach from him. At a certain point I had terrible feelings of abandonment which have fortunately passed. There are photos and videos of him on the internet and I found pictures of his children who also dance. A son and a daughter - in my eyes a good, caring father and his loving children, all of them successful people, a perfect family, something which also triggered difficult emotions in me. I understand that he is more or less a trigger, not a cause of them, I hardly know him. And I realise that the pictures are an illusion, the reality is certainly different. But in my mind he is a perfect father who loves his children and this causes me pain for some reason. And I am not angry with him (which is surprising but makes me more vulnerable). Well, in this state of mind I contacted....the cyclist! I hadn´t thought much about what I was doing, it was more or less a spontaneous decision. He had sent me a Christmas greeting to which I didn´t respond so now I sent him a New Year´s greeting. He answered immediately, he is a little ill but he will join me for a walk. I liked walking with him because we could keep the same pace so he was a good companion. I think I will be able to deal with him because the trainer is number one on my mind now. After we agreed to go walking I feel better, partly because although the cyclist was often disrespectful, I can tell myself: He is a jerk but at least I know him, we know each other and I will stop obsessing with the trainer (who I don´t know actually). Otherwise I have no expectations... I am curious about how I will feel after meeting him (whether the trainer will disappear from my mind). I really can´t understand why I am so obsessed with the trainer - maybe because unlike the cyclist he was polite and we "connected" (most probably just my illusion) so he is a good guy in my eyes. When a good guy disappears it´s worse than a bad guy´s disappearance LOL. So hopefully, the cyclist will help me to get out of this stuck state of mind...

As I am writing this the trainer is hovering over me, it´s as if he was with me all the time, very confusing... I am literally looking forward to the cyclist, I firmly believe he will be able to distract my attention because he is real, not a confusing illusion...

chk61, now I understand better why you cannot stop thinking about your DM. You didn´t know him too well, right?

Mirror and all, have a nice weekend,
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Feeling Sad,
"I just feel his lack of commitment with me before had something to do with her perhaps -- and he was keeping the door open by her keeping these things in her possession?"

It may have - it may not have been - but either way, what difference does that make at this point in time? That was then, this is now. And if his hesitation previously was due to her, then he did the right thing by not committing at that time and instead, waiting until he was ready.

"Should I say something?"

About what? Meaning, what are you going to say? If you plan on telling him that your insecurities are surfacing, then no, I wouldn't do that. If you do, you're going to let your insecurities affect your relationship when the reality is that there's actually nothing done wrong here. If he wants his stuff back and he's forwarding the emails to his brother to make that happen, then that's not a bad thing, so you can't say anything about it. And if he wasn't committed before but he is now and you, yourself, see the differences in his actions, then there's nothing to say about that either because it was actually the right thing to do. So I don't see anything to say something about, ya' know?

I think these are your insecurities surfacing dear. And they're causing you to dredge up the past and rehash things from the past and apply them to your new situation with him now, which is the wrong thing to do because he's changed - and that was then, and this is now. If you've agreed to a fresh start, then YOU ALSO need to make a fresh start as well and leave the past in the past.

If he were attempting to see her or trying to start general conversations with her other than those of receiving his items back, then yea, maybe I'd see a red flag there. But it looks to me like he's been trying to get this stuff back for over a year, and some of it may have sentimental value to him so they're important items to him it appears, and he's not responding to her and instead, he's having his brother handle the matter for him so he doesn't involve himself, which is also the right thing to do in a situation like this.

Until you see him trying to start conversations with her or see her, there's nothing to be said here. Additionally, you'd have to reveal how you found out about this, which would require you to reveal your insecurities and the fact that you don't trust him - and that could open up a whole other can of worms.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
I think you already realize this, but just to reinforce the difference in an attempt to make you feel better so you can separate your emotions from the situation. . .realize that the attachment to the dancer, as you've indicated, isn't an attachment to HIM - it's an attachment to the IDEA of him. Meaning, the glorified version of him that exists as an illusion - the illusion of a "good guy."

Because the reality is that you don't know this man and for all you know, he's a narcissist or a liar or a player or a serial dater or a man who truly doesn't want a commitment and prefers only casual dating - you get the idea. . .the reality could be ANYTHING - and while it could be that he truly is a good guy, it could also be vastly different from the illusion of him that currently exists in your mind. Because as we all know, basing decisions on someone's "surface" appearance and the image of themselves that they sell to the general public - can actually be very deceiving and the reality can be vastly different.

So when you think of him, just realize that the image of him that you hold in your mind's eye may be vastly different from who he is in real life - and if you're able to separate the illusion and the possible reality, I think it will help you to move past him in time :-)

Anonymous said...

@Mirror

You are right and I am trying to move on. I myself can´t understand why I am so focused on him. I think it´s partly because he was nice and respectful on the dates and partly because of his carrot - on the whole I realize he just led me on at the end but at times I feel confused by his behaviour and this confusion makes me think about him. Yes, if you want to make somebody think about you, tell them that you will do something together, hint genuine interest and then disappear. And have some videos on the internet LOL.

A good thing is that the worst confusing and negative emotions he provoked are gone and I have achieved certain balance. As I wrote above, he was a trigger for me and I think I have already learned what I was supposed to learn from this. On Sunday I am going walking with the cyclist (maybe he will be disrespectful again but at least I can be angry with somebody tangible LOL) and I am corresponding with two new men who seem to be quite decent, so hopefully the trainer will disappear from my mind slowly but surely. By the way, he hasn´t signed in since he read my last e-mail. But he is alive and well because he uses his official e-mail address from time to time (I know I should give up detective work and I will).

Mirror, thank you for your kind words support, it helps a lot:-)
Best wishes to you and all,
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

@ Feeling Sad writes:
Thank you Mirror for your reply. I was jubilated to know it was my own insecurities playing with my emotions. I really want this relationship to work and I have almost 2 years invested. I went happily skipping away, until just a short hour ago….

I am staying over at his house this weekend to feed the animals while he is out of town. I invited 2 girlfriends over (he is fine with that, he said) and I was looking for some notebook paper and pens to jot down some ideas, as “we girls” are going to plan a surprise birthday party for another friend of ours, in a few weeks. In this drawer, I find a notebook and on it written, www.diamond ---- com. I am sooo excited as you can only imagine! He is thinking about me and we are on the right track and we are going to tie the knot, I say to myself. Oh wow! Silly me…

I am so excited that I look at the website he’s visited and to my total dismay, my heart just sinks right there in my lap. This is a “fake” diamond site. “….As seen on TV… The ____ collection proudly presents a true masterpiece. Even jewelers have a hard time distinguishing this diamond from a mined diamond. Each bridal set in a ring of sterling silver plate and offered at an incredible price of $20…”

Ok, so he hasn’t purchased it. But the thought that he would even consider it, just crushes me. I have thought of every scenario imaginable to give him the benefit of the doubt. So maybe he’s just getting ideas… he likes the style and look of the ring. Well, he also has the price of $20 written down, next to the website address. Why would he do that if he wasn’t considering purchasing it? Maybe a friend gave him the notebook and wrote down the information (even though it appears to be his own hand-writing). If so, the price of $20 is still there. If my friend told me about this ring for $20, I’d knot the paper up into a little ball and throw it into the trash and say, “My man deserves waaay better than that.” So, maybe he had a weak moment, right… but not really going to follow through? I thought if I could ever even consider doing that to him, even just a passing thought, if nothing else… absolutely not. I love him… I would want him to have the best that I could possibly afford, because it’s from me to him, the person I love so very much.

I welcome your comments, Mirror. And if you tell me not to worry, that would be wonderful. But somehow, this is not sitting well in my stomach. It’s almost seems as if he is pacifying me to get me back for the time being. And if it doesn’t work out…Well, he hasn’t wasted too much money…

-Feeling very vey sad now

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror Happy new to you and all the ladies.

Ms Mirror I still read your site quite religiously and I glad to see it going from strength to strength. I haven’t written in a while so I thought that I would share some of my experiences recently.

Last year I spent the best part of the year reading your site and pearls of wisdom and reading everyone’s stories. Last year for me was about healing but also about learning. There is so much that has sunk in with me now, I feel much stronger. I can’t believe the way I handled 2 situations with 2 difficult men last year [it was a non romantic situation]. The fact is I stood up to them and then some…and I remember at the time in both situations, thinking I wonder what Ms mirror would say. Haha, but the crux of the matter was, I came out unscathed and stood up to 2 very obnoxious men….I tell you they were not expecting that from me. More so, I was not expecting that from myself!!

At the end of last year, I think I became ready to seriously date again. Over the last few months I have really given thought to my future and what I would want it to look like. I have never dared to dream or allowed myself to visualise a future. As odd as it may sound I allowed my self to dream this time. And I saw a future with someone and children and a house in the country. Ms Mirror I even thought about my wedding day!!. I am 37 and I had never really given it a moments thought. It’s almost as if I suppressed it.

In December I created an online dating profile. This was a little different this time. My profile consisted of 3 lines summing up who I was and what I did. But the main part of my profile talked about dating [pre – internet]. Going back to a time when people courted, Old fashioned values and dating protocol. When Gentleman and Ladies although very different in character, complimented each other. My profile was something out of a Jane Austen Novel perhaps, but I hope you get the gist.

But you know, I was so very surprised. I had some amazing responses from men.
Some really lengthy emails saying that what I had written had struck a cord with them. It was refreshing for them.

Some talked of chivalry, another talked about how these customs and values were lost in the past and how it had become so easy to dismiss people without giving them a true and heartfelt try. How we very rarely get to see male and female individual qualities because out of fear of rejection we put up barriers.

One chap wrote to me saying that how he had gone on a first date last month with a lady he had been texting with for a couple of weeks prior with only a mild level of flirtation, and later a phone conversation with an even milder level. Much to his surprise (and distaste) she insisted on kissing him on the lips and planted one on him in public. He politely let her down. For him, less was more.

The most common response I got was from men telling me that they were a Gentleman but in a nutshell they did not believe that this carried any weight anymore or were unsure of how being a gentleman was truly viewed in this day and age. They felt they were a dying breed.
Ms Mirror how sad is that!

I have started dating, but with a different mind-set now and I will write again sharing my experiences. But for now, I just wanted to share with you the feedback I got from my profile. I do believe there are good men out there but I believe it is our mind-set that will determine whether or not we give them a chance.

Best wishes
Lottie.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. My DM man that we dated off and on for 4 years just reappeared after no contact for the last 6 months. I broke it off with him because he was back to scheduling a date once every 3 or 4 weeks and not calling for a week. He sent a text asking how I was and asked if I could do him a quick favor. He asked if he could have a contact at the bank I work at because one of his clients needed a loan (I do loans). Then told me to let him know if I wanted to go have a cocktail sometime. I wanted to ignore but thought since it was business related that I should answer so I just asked what kind of loan his client needed and how much. I kept it business like. He replied and then I told him I would get him a contact next week. My first thought is why would I want to do him a favor. But then I didn't want him to think he still gets to me. I didn't reply to his cocktail comment. What do you think about this type of contact from him. Maybe he thinks I would ignore him otherwise? I don't know. It sucks that after 6 months this is the kind of contact I get from him but I think acting like I don't care is probably the best? Thanks Mirror

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lottie,
Thank you for sharing that dear. It just goes to show you that yes, gentlemen still do exist. And even many men who aren't used to proceeding like that when dating can still identify with that process because quite frankly, it made everything easier. The men were honest and upfront, they wanted to date you, they asked for your number, called you, asked you on a date and - boom - you were dating.

Compare that with this complicated messed up head game process that many men go through these days using all this strategy meant to weaken women by triggering insecurities that make them anxious enough to give chase. If you ask me, that's a much more difficult process and I cannot for the life of me figure out why so many men are drawn to it. Because quite honestly, when this crazy process is used, the men start out signaling that they're actually in the inferior position, the powerless one - hence the need to manipulate the woman into dating you.

How crazy is that? I don't even think half these men realize what they're doing. When you are looking at a woman as an opponent that you have to weaken in order to win over - you're basically starting off by assuming she's better than you, smarter than you, stronger than you - so you have to cheat to win LOL. Instead of being the man, being direct and upfront, taking the lead and remaining ethical about it. Frankly it makes many modern men look like fearful cowards when they decide to take the manipulative route instead.

And I do believe that as a woman, if you set firm boundaries up front and you are clear about how you expect to be treated - you will attract the right men to yourself, or at the very least, ones worth getting to know a bit better. And there are many men who secretly appreciate the old ways but because so many modern women are so very aggressive about their sexuality these days, they don't do that because as crazy as it sounds, a lot of women think being a gentlemen is a wimpy thing. When the reality is that it takes guts to be that upfront and that proper about your behavior these days because everyone else is cheating and playing dirty so you risk looking like the "weirdo" in the bunch.

Either way, as you've seen, a profile like that can draw men that the old ways still appeal to. And while Prince Charming may never show up on your doorstep as a result, at the very least, the men that do make an appearance are most likely much more compatible with you and will at least treat you with respect, present enjoyable dates, and be worth getting to know a bit more :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 18, 2:08 AM,
"What do you think about this type of contact from him."

I wouldn't read too much into this dear. This could have very well all been just about a client of his. And the invite for a cocktail holds absolutely no weight with a man who dated you on and off for a full 4 years - because most likely, even if you do have a cocktail with him, he'll disappear again because that's been his pattern for years, "on and off", with nothing consistent and regular settling into place.

The cocktail would most likely be a casual thing and nothing more, and it would probably lead to him disappearing again, resurfacing, disappearing - and generating the entire "on and off" cycle all over again. So in the end, it really does mean anything earth shattering at all because chances are it'd just lead to more of the same anyway :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Feeling very vey sad now,
Well, at this point, this is all just speculation. Meaning, none of this has taken place yet, and as a result, nothing can be done about it because you cannot address situations that haven't actually taken place.

And there's another side to this as well. If he tries to fool you and lie to you about presenting a ring that's fake, then yes that's deceitful. But - if marrying him is truly your end goal - then the quality of the ring really shouldn't matter. It's not the ring that's important, it's the marriage, ya' know? And I know a LOT of couples that have actually purchased lower cost rings initially when just starting a life together because money was used to buy a home instead and make a life for themselves at first - and then at the five or ten year anniversary mark - a genuine or much nicer ring was then purchased and blessed to replace the first one.

On the flip side of that, I know folks who have purchased $10k rings and had $20k weddings - didn't have a dime to purchase a home as a result and rented instead always struggling to make a life for themselves - and then became divorced by the five year mark. And when that happens, those expensive rings and those fancy weddings don't mean anything. The rings never hold their true value and if you ever go to pawn one or sell one, you learn that very quick. And there are really no assets to split and in the end, the two walk away with nothing and are right back where they started five years earlier.

I also know folks who have passed over a diamond as an engagement ring entirely choosing gemstone rings instead. Things like morganite, topaz, citrine, etc. Those gems are still valuable gems and honestly are even more rare than diamonds. There are tons of diamonds, but the diamond mines hold the supply back to create a larger demand so that they can keep the prices of them high because they know if they release the worlds supply into the market, prices will hit the floor once the market is flooded with them. Additionally, if a gemstone is chosen, a five or eight carat ring is not out of the question and can be rather affordable and quite a nice change. Choosing something rare versus something that practically every woman on the planet owns at least one of can be quite nice actually.

After living and learning, you realize that all these material things are exactly that - material things. In the end what really matters is that the marriage itself is solid, and that there's money left over to actually build a life together and invest in your future as a couple so that you can settle into a comfortable lifestyle :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Hopeful,

I realise that I'm anonymous but I do read your posts and I hear that you're very confused regarding the dance trainer and your emotions towards him and the experience you've had...

I realise that this is sensitive ground but when I read your comments below I immediately recognised what maybe going on for you.... I hope it helps or a least it might be worth considering to gain clarity or at least rule it out as a possibility.

There's nothing worse than being trapped in situations, turmoil, emotional pain, feelings towards others that are unrequited but often the cause of feeling trapped is not the actual person or situation but about related past trauma. You say yourself that you recognise it as an illusion, obsession and this is amazing step in recognising the truth and that you are further on than you realise.

I believe this community that Ms Mirror has created is about healing, empowerment, sharing amongst many other things and and with that in mind I have to share with you what I can see maybe the root of your problem or linked to it and I'm sharing this with you from an intention of healing.

'At a certain point I had terrible feelings of abandonment'

There are photos and videos of him on the internet and I found pictures of his children who also dance. A son and a daughter - in my eyes a good, caring father and his loving children, all of them successful people, a perfect family, something which also triggered difficult emotions in me.

'But in my mind he is a perfect father who loves his children and this causes me pain for some reason'

Please forgive me if I'm wrong but if someone is triggering these extreme responses such as abandonment etc. in you then may I suggest that the root of this lies in your childhood and your experiences around this time. That's what you need to look at in order to heal. If the fact that it's causing you to experience difficult emotions when reflecting on him as a 'good father' and having a 'perfect' family life and loving his children then this may well reflect something from your childhood related to abandoment and the feelings of not being loved.

incidently no one has a perfect family life or childhood and the fact that the trainer is no longer in his whole family unit speaks for itself.

...and the trouble is until we really get in there and admit to ourselves that this is the root cause of our pain then we will be forever trapped in the related trauma and forever attracting men who mirror this trauma back to ourselves. Also, there's a tendency for us to project this pain of the past onto others and also try and heal our past by attracting these unavailable types to try and win them over to heal and undo the original wound and recreating the past into one that is 'perfect'.

However, this can never work and tends to creates more pain and gets us caught in the vicious cycle of the trauma it's akin to scraping at your old wounds so they never heal over...

but don't lose heart as like you say the trainer is a trigger, he is a trigger that can bring you to a place of healing if you allow it...he is a teacher in a way.

Your power and freedom is in your own hands I think that if you try and focus and realise on what is actually the truth behind your responses and the struggle you're having with regard to your trainer then it would be the key to setting you free from him and any associated patterns that are attracting men to you who are unavailable.

The power is in your hands. I've had something similar in my past, so I guess when I read your post I recognised it immediately and was moved to share my thoughts with you.

Best

Anonymous said...

@Mirror and the Ladies

My latest update: I have returned from a walk with the cyclist and I can´t help sharing the experience with you. As I wrote here before, we had been on and off non-dating (no intimacy) for months when he "definitely" disappeared half a year ago. He reappeared at Christmas sending me a text. So today we went walking and it was fun. He was respectful and everything was okay. My impression is that he did think about his past behaviour and me and life in general and probably came to the conclusion that I am a woman who has value (at last, unbelievable LOL). On the whole I felt that he can appreciate my good qualities now, which he wasn´t able to when we were in contact. Which doesn´t mean that I am interested :-(. But if he wanted I can keep in touch with as a friend. I am willing to give him a chance if he doesn´t disappoint me again.

Mirror, I like your reply to Lottie, especially the paragraph where you state that by manipulating women these men just show that they feel inferior to them. Absolutely! There´s nothing to add.

:-), :-), :-)
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

P.s.: Oh, I forgot to write the following: If I understand it correctly, the reason why the cyclist seems to appreciate me more now isn´t directly connected with me. It´ s because he is not fit now and none of the women from his harem seems to be interested, so it´s like "a friend in need is a friend indeed" and more importantly, he is starting to lose that delusion that he is a hero who can have any woman from 18 to 100 - on the other hand, my delusion was that I didn´t understand this delusion of his. Mirror, as you wrote, "male ego is a wondrous thing". It really is LOL.

Gem50 said...

@ Feeling sad,

I agree with Ms. Mirror; your ego may be hit right now, but love isn't about ego, is it? Don't place your value on a ring sweety.

There's one other thing I'd like to mention. I think this is the 2nd time you have shared that you have accidently found information while at your boyfriend's house. Please excuse my bluntness dear, but you may be getting close to running out of "accidental" luck.

The strongest partnerships are founded on trust. If you do not trust him to close his personal email when you come upon it, or refuse to pursue websites from notes he's written, then that shows your lack of respect for his privacy. If I were him, and learned your behavior while dating, I would wonder how you would behave if you had the (false) security of a marriage certificate?

When I have left boyfriends at my home alone, I have expected them to respect my privacy; and I have followed that rule in their homes. A girlfriend asked me once about my going to work and leaving a man I was in a new relationship with alone at the house. She asked, "What if he goes through your stuff and finds (whatever)."

"Well," I responded, "we have a bigger problem then, don't we?"

Stop snooping Sad. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't leaving stuff for you to find to test you -- to see how much respect you actually have for his privacy, personal belongings, and his home (which is supposed to be his castle, right?)

If you bring this up, $20 is not going to be the issue -- what he could do is perceive it as your lack of respect for his notes and his emails, and you'll have a much bigger problem than his x-girlfriend or an engagement ring.

I wish you all the best.

odyssie said...

Hi! I last left a comment on November 20 on this post about my disappearing guy situation. I wanted to come back with an update...

My disappearing guy kept showing up in the same gym classes as me for another two weeks or so from my last post but when I refused to engage him he backed off. He texted and called me a few times during December but with it being the holidays I really didn't want to deal with the possible emotional turmoil that might come with talking to him, so I let his messages pile up with no response.

In the meantime though I've kept dating and then something INCREDIBLE happened. I work at a gym as an instructor and over the past year or so the gym owner and I have become friends. He's not my direct manager in any way -- he teaches too but a different discipline than me. We started chatting between classes and hanging out sometimes and actually he was a great masculine mentor for me when I was trying to figure out what to do with my disappearing guy. After I'd found this site we were having a chat about my disappearing guy and the gym owner was telling me about a lot of women he knew who would chase after men that dumped them. And I replied (thanks to what I've learned here!!) that I had wayyyyy more value for myself than that and that if disappearing guy wanted me back, he was going to have to man up.

Something changed after that with gym owner -- he became much more flirty with me went out of his way to come see me when I was at the gym. He also made sure my gym room was always set up perfectly before my classes, asked me how things were going and generally became more interested in my life. He also shared a lot about himself! Without me even asking. Looking back on it, way more than most of my male friends do and I see now that he was dropping info to see if we meshed well based on my reactions. But I didn't think much of it because he isn't the type of guy I normally go for. He's several years older than me, he shaves his head (and I love full heads of hair!), he's not from my religious background either.

odyssie said...

In December while we were talking one day he said to me, very simply: "I think I'm falling in love with you and I want to take you out on a proper date. How would you feel about that?"

I was shocked to say the least! We'd never even gone to dinner, obviously never slept together and I hadn't even tried to get this man to notice me. I figured we were just flirty friends...and I felt like I'd done everything the books tell you not to do -- talked about other men I was dating, been emotional at times (though never towards him), and not really paying him much mind.

Thanks to this place though I see that what I WAS doing was being light, carefree, fun and myself. No pressure on him so it was easy to get to know each other and when he asked me out I realized that he is 1 - a gentleman who'd been slyly pursuing me for months; 2 - a man who always treats everyone around him well; and 3 - always left me feeling good after we'd hung out.

How could I say no? We've been dating since then and while it's obviously early days I feel great about how things are going! I know now not to pursue him...I keep my own life full and he's great about asking me out regularly. We still hang out at the gym too but keep it professional.

The best part is when he picked me up for our first date, he told me that he knew better than to play games with me because he knew I wouldn't stand for it! LOL.

So thank you MOA. Although my disappearing guy didn't come back the way I'd hoped, I've entered into something amazing as a result and the best part is I feel great about myself.

Anonymous said...

@feeling sad
Dear Mirror,
You mentioned previously that, "Until you see him trying to start conversations with her or see her starting conversations, there's nothing to be said here." Well, it just happened today... Remember the open email I mentioned.... It's still available, as I am pet sitting, as mentioned and still at his house. It's his b day tomorrow and I thought if something were going to happen, if would happen now. Sure enough, the ex girlfriend sent an email wishing him a happy birthday. I did not read it, as it would have been unhighlighted and he would had known. I have no doubt whatsoever that he will respond to it. My woman's intuition is that he saved her in his email contacts because he still has feelings for her. I think that ship has possibly sailed for her, but if not... I'm not sure if he wouldn't go running back. I have felt that he is possibly still in love with her and that is why he has bulked at a true commitment with me, even after 2 years. But my mind kept saying, "2 years... that's a long time. Surely not..."

In my opinion mirror, he had no business sending her a change of email address, as that is what started this recent communication in the first place. And my woman's intuition thinks possibly that is what he wanted to happen. We were broke up at the time, but we were talking things out and in contact with each other. He will be coming home in a day and I just don't know what to do.... I am just sick about everything.

I don't mind telling him at this point, that it was all innocent enough... He said I could use his computer, he left his email open, and I saw this particular email come through. But as he can see, I didn't read it... But what the heck is going on here? And why does she have your new email address?

As far as the ring - I couldn't agree more. I do not care about an expensive ring, and I have told him so. I am more interested in a permanent commitment and a ring just solidifies that for me. I could care less if we went down to city hall at this point, but I know that can't happen right now. He has a lease obligation for 8 more months and I can't move either. Even if he spent $500 on a fake diamond, I would get it. But when I saw the price of $20, it just made me feel less than special. In fact, all those insecurities you talked about (especially concerning the ex girlfriend) were blown up in my face once again with the "fake diamond" information. In fact, I initially thought... What a perfect plan. He can ride both sides of the fence: Make me happy by not investing too much, while he sees if she'll come back around in time...

I'm not downing myself, Mirror.... I feel I do know my self worth, hence the break-up on my part. But there has been a skeleton in the closet for far too long and I feel like I have been finally enlightened. I never knew exactly what it was... He blamed finances for the lack of commitment before. But by happen- stance and fate, I think I am seeing "the other woman" now. For the longest time, I thought this could not even be possible. I mean, it's been 2 years!! Surely this ship has sailed.... I said to myself. I am not sure it has sailed for him...

Mirror, your thoughts? But most importantly, should I tell him I found this all out by accident and ask him what is going on? I just feel proper boundaries are in order here for two people who are talking about getting engaged and say they want a future together. Deep down,'he has got to know she has moved on ( I think, I hope) and put all of this in proper perspective, or he is going too lose me too.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous Jan 18, 2015 at 9:49 AM

Thank you very much for your response. You dodn´t have to apologise for anything because I must honestly admit that what you wrote is true and I realise that I should do something with my life, or rather, with myself, and not just some "cosmetic" improvements, but something significant. Coincidentally, the trainer told me the same, he told me that I needed to change things but I didn´t understand what exactly he meant because I was quite overwhelmed by him and the whole conversation we had. I should have asked him to clarify but I was silent. It´s true that my whole life has been influenced by my father, who is a decent citizen, but unfortunately, he has never been able to connect with me and I have never been too important in his life. I am a single child and have always had a closer relationship with my mum. Coincidentally, I basically saved my father´s life today. He has heart disease and felt ill and lost his consciousness yet again this afternoon. Fortunately, I was at home with him, called an ambulance, he is in hospital right now. He is 78 but hopefully, he will survive this failure (as he has several times including heart attack so my mum and me have been in constant stress in recent years). Today it was a shock again although it didn´t happen the first time. As I am writing this and looking at your words again, Anonymous, I realise that perhaps I sabotage somehow realtionships with men because I am quite reserved and I need a lot of time to open up but men perceive it as disinterest or aloofness perhaps, which puts them off. I probably make such an impression even when I flirt or smile, so maybe some think I am a hypocrite and pretend. But it´s just my oversensitivity and vulnerability. I know that I have to learn to be more open, approachable and less vulnerable. In some ways I discourage potential partners. And you are right, it is connected with my father although in recent years we have had a good relationship as two mature adults, no problems basically because I have understoond where his behaviour comes from (his original family) and don´t have any bitter feelings about his past behaviour. And the trainer - I really don´t know. I was 99% certain he would contact me. As I said, he saw into me and I did too, so maybe he got scared... And maybe he was just looking for a fling and understood I wasn´t the right one for that, who knows... And maybe it was me sabotaging his interest unconsciously and unwillingly because yes, I remember that there were moments of closeness which I interrupted, so maybe he felt rejected (sigh). As I wrote here, at the end of the date he said we could exchange the telephone numbers, I said yes and then he said something, a sentence or two as he was leaving but I didn´t hear. Nervous as I was I didn´t ask him what he was saying and let him leave. I have no idea what he said. I forgot to write to you about it.

Thank you again for the response. Yes, I should do something, change something, adopt new approaches to things... It´s hard though because I don´t know what exactly to change.

Have a nice day,
Hopeful:-)

Anonymous said...

Dear gem (and mirror):
Thank you for your input. I was concerned that this would look like "snooping"; however, please know that I have also have been asking my higher power for clarity. I really just think these things were meant to be revealed. Yes, I did struggle with looking at the initial emails, but I have a friend who is a PI and he says, "trust your gut". Having said that, I thought... This is what a PI would do and I need to know; my gut has been saying there is an "elephant in the room/ in our relationship" and I never knew why. I know my BF loves me but there has been hesitation in moving forward, on his part. (This is past tense. However, keep in mind we have only been back together for 2 weeks.)

I don't regret what I did and I am prepared to tell him that he left it open and there was her name right in front of me. ( I don't have to say I read it... I feel that It's irrelevant.) That is the truth.... I was completely happy with "us" the day he left. I was excited about our future together. I was not planning on any of this, only decorating his house for his birthday and excitedly surprising him with that at his return.

I know my BF would feel the same way.... And he has expressed it to me that neither of us have a place in bars, having opposite sex as friends, etc. I have been googling stuff today and I came across this article by a psychologist, which explains accurately how I feel this very moment:

"....damage that is done to a couple is the fact that this activity is secret. Most often, the current lover comes across photos, emails and Facebook activity by accident. If keeping these things is so innocent then why keep them secret? Also, why not give up such things as photos and other types of contact? If someone is fully committed to their romantic partner why Is the communication still happening and why not be understanding of the partners feelings about this and stop it?

Secret or not, maintaining contact with a former lover dilutes or takes energy and focus away from the present relationship. In other words, this is a distraction that serves no good purpose. A secure and trusting romantic relationship rests upon a foundation of trust. This trust cannot be established if either one of the partners remains in contact with a former lover."

This is exactly my scenario. I want complete exclusiveness or I am prepared to walk. And I am also prepared to tell him that in a safe, loving way... When the time is right, in the next few days. I however, would like to know your input here, as well. I am open to "mulling it over" but my gut says this is the thing to do.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Feeling Sad,
While I understand what the psychology article is referencing, I think the "secret" activity they're referring to is actual conversing that may be taking place - meaning, making small talk and just generally continuing to talk to one another in a pleasant manner by keeping in touch.

But your situation is not that type of situation. He's not making small talk, he's not pleasantly conversiing - he's actually just trying to get his stuff back. And he's doing that through his brother, not even himself. Additionally, the $20 ring situation is a different situation entirely.

So just keep that in mind - because if you're going to confront him on this, things could go terribly wrong and the entire relationship could come to an end. If you're prepared for that to happen, then proceed. But if you're not, you might want to wait until your emotions level out a bit and subside somewhat before communicating any of this to him. Because if emotions are running high - communication tends to run low, and as a result, heated arguments and breakups end up being the end result - instead of real problem solving or sharing.

Either way - best of luck dear :-)

Gem50 said...

@ Feeling Sad,
I agree with Ms. Mirror, I wouldn't say a thing. Instead, get your emotions in check and observe.

Regarding your PI friend, ask her/him if they take the first thing they see/find, come to a conclusion and divulge the information immediately? Or, do they wait and watch and continue to learn where the action is coming from and where it is going?

Exactly what Ms. Mirror says above can happen. :-( And quite honestly, I don't think your DM has a chance right now to prove his good intentions if you bring this up. What can he SAY that will quell your fears and suspicions? Nothing. What can he DO? You have to watch to see.

Really, other than turning into your Night in Shining Armor and throwing his heart down on his sword to prove his love for you (I know, a bit dramatic), words are not going to resolve this for you.

But it will put doubt in his mind about YOUR INTEGRITY, HIS TRUST in you, and YOUR RESPECT for him. If I was him, I would see this as you not having respect for me to stay out of my personal things, you also don't have enough respect for me to take care of matters in my life. Ms. Mirror is right, he's done the right thing with the x-gf getting his stuff via his brother.

The x-gf is always going to be there my dear, in his past. Right now, she's saying happy birthday; my suggestion is to WATCH and SEE how he handles this.

It doesn't take too long for truth to come out my dear; especially if you are looking for it. :-)



Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,
Sending hugs and prayers for you, your dad and mum.
xo

Anonymous said...

Hi Hopeful,

Anonymous here again. I wish your father a speedy recovery, how fortunate you were there...

As regards the trainer I think you're taking on too much of the responsibility and internalising that it is you that's done something wrong or it's you that has to change. When in reality it's more than likely him... I wouldn't give your power away like that by giving it any credence that there is anything wrong with you. You are the supreme authority on your life and you. I think maybe if you look at it externally and instead of putting someone that you don't know well at all on a pedestal based on an in depth conversation you've had and first impressions then if you look at his behaviour and actions well they spell out that he has some sort of problem commiting and that is his problem and nothing to do with you.

I wouldn't take on the blame of why things haven't continued but you may well be attracting this type of man as part of a pattern that needs breaking but we are all here learning thanks to Ms Mirror and our own efforts and I think if you continue to work on yourself and address these patterns and tendencies then eventually you will attract a better quality man.

Best


Anonymous said...

@Anonymous January 20, 2015 at 7:36 AM

Thank you for your response and the supportive words regarding my father. Hopefully, he will recover yet another time (he has had a few collapses before). He is still in hospital. My mum has fallen ill out of shock (they have been together for almost 50 years) so everything is pretty bleak and I am functioning like a robot.

I am glad that I can visit this site and distract my thoughts from my father´s condition. Concernind the trainer, it´s very helpful to read someone else´s opinion because naturally, my view is fairly subjective. When I read your sentence that it must be him having some commitment issues, I felt relieved. The truth is that if he hadn´t liked me at all, presumably he wouldn´t have met me the second time. But he did come, seemed to have a very good time so it appears that when he understood I wasn´t the right type for what he wanted, he disappeared. And you will be right that I am attracting this type of men but how to break the pattern? The only way I see is to meet these men once or twice and let them go when I understand that they don´t want to commit. So basically, the trainer did me a favour because I didn´t have to do the dumping LOL.

I wish you and Mirror and all a nice, peaceful day,
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

@Gem50
Thank you. How are you and scorpio doing? :-)
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

I don't know if this is more common in New York or what, but I have just had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting yet another disappearing man. What is up with men and using this tactic as a break up these days? I dated a guy for a little over two months. I supported him. listened to him, and i saw him a few times a week.

As a matter of fact, I saw him just last week and everything was seemingly fine. We stayed up cuddling watching re-runs of our favorite show. I jokingly told him not to cheat on me and watch the episodes of the new season without me. He asked me to stay the night, I had to leave. Kissed him goodbye, I told him I would see him soon, and then poof he's gone. I suspect he went back to his ex, but i have no way of knowing because he decided that I didn't deserve an explanation.

Why is this an acceptable way to break up with someone?

Don't we deserve a little respect, don't we deserve some closure from these men? I would have more respect for him if he told me he didn't want to see me anymore. Now I just feel disgusted by this. Why is this ok?

I really wanted to tell him off. He can look me in the eyes when we lie in bed together, but he can't break it off. But then I decided not to say anything at all ,because what is the point?

I suspect this one might come back, but how can we trust them not to pull this stunt again? I think men like this take advantage of a woman's vulnerability. It simply is not fair. If they do it once, they will probably do it again. We need to realize this and not take them back, as tempting as it might feel at times.

Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,

Quick answer to your question: Neither of us have budged.
He has a girlfriend and wants me on the side. I’m not interested in what he's offering.
I have taken care of myself through this learning experience, put myself first, and I feel good. :-)

Please keep us posted on your parents, and please take care of yourself as well dear. {SUPER HUGS}

Anonymous said...

This is for January 21st dm in New York.
I live in nyc also, this is a fairly common tactic guys getting close then disappearing.. The reality of it is nyc is a meat market catering to men and they routinely have several women at once. They romance you disappear and then on to the next sometimes with like 8 women! The female to male ratio is high here so most women put up with it the men here are spoiled. The disappearing tactic is done deliberately to get you to chase them and it usually works. The thing is as soon as you start chasing they lose interest and so you lose no matter what. We have to play harder here than most women do most places, its terrible. I cant tell you how many of my friends find someone right away when they move away from nyc... guys come here to have fun. Its a Disney land of women. My neighbor whos 50 had a date with a young 20something (absolutely gorgeous) at the corner café Friday, had a sexy masseuse up with her table Saturday night, and hosted his weekly book club sunday where there where like 7 women and 1 other man, routinely has what I think are hookers, or perhaps tinder hookups... Guys don't come here to settle down, there are just too women.

Anonymous said...

@ feeling sad wrote:

Ok... Gem and mirror. I have been coming here for over 2 years. With mirror's advice I got the guy. The last year I have become impatient, however, with where I'd like us to be in our relationship. We are not spring chickens... We both have grown children. But because your advice has worked all this time, I will once again "sit and wait" and heed to your advice.
You know what's funny... I have asked my friends if they thought his hesitation I have felt this last year moving forward could be the ex girlfriend. They all assured me not. "Oh, they have had their chances to get back... Surely not". Something in my gut has said otherwise. And then boom... this. Could this be just all coincidence?
Does it not bother either of you that he has saved her in his contacts all this time that he has been with me? ( he only has close friends and family listed, besides me and her. I know he's dated other people and no one else is saved.) I have no exes in my email. Certainly if it had been over two years, I would not be sending an ex a change of email address as he did. That is asking for conversation, which is exactly what happened with her initiating, "Oh, I have your stuff, btw". (We were broke up at the time, but it shows me she is till on his mind - lonely or not.) Oh well, I guess time will tell.... As you say. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

@Gem50

Thank you very much. My father is still in hospital but stabilized and mother is in bed with flu. Mum should recover sooner or later and father will hopefully too. However, apart from this last one he´s had a few collapses over the past weeks (!) (from which he recovered by himself) and I am afraid the situation will most probably continue when he returns home so I am quite glad they have kept him in hospital for now. So a lot of stress ahead of us for both my mother and me as we don´t know what might happen in the near future.

Good for you that you decided to look after yourself and put yourself first. You deserve (we all do) somebody who is there for us. That´s one positive thing about my current situation - I´ve suddenly and for real lost interest in all the unavailable men and am determined to find somebody who really cares. No more wasting time and energy on unprospective men.

I have sent my photo to one man and he wrote "You certainly believe in fairytales, don´t you?". I don´t quite understand what he meant. I think I am tired of all these meaningless exchanges that don´t go anywhere.

Best wishes to everybody,
bye Hopeful

Gem50 said...

@ Feeling Sad, it sounds like we've been here relatively the same amount of time; have you posted under the same name?

If I recall your recent posts correctly, you said that you broke up with him (please correct me if I'm wrong) and you were broken up for months?? Without going back and trying to find your posts, I don't recall if you explained how you got back together.

I think you also said that the posts between your bf and his ex were about his stuff with some having value. You also questioned why he would keep her in his contact list.

To answer your question of whether it bothers me that she's in his contact list: No, because she still had his stuff. When he first tried to get it back, she gave him a run around, is that right? (that was HER power-play).

He could have taken action then, got into it with her to get it back, but it sounds like he just let it go, and hopefully saw he had better things to do spending his time with you. :-)

You broke up with him, is that right? I don't know if Ms. Mirror or anyone else will agree with me, but when you break up with someone, they are free to move on with their life as best they can (that includes us, ladies). It seemed when you broke up with him, he decided to contact the ex again to try to get his stuff back.

She has contacted him again, and now that you two are back together, he didn't respond to her, rather he forwarded the message to his brother.

From what I see dear, this man hasn't done anything wrong.

I have some of my ex's in my email contacts; I've never contacted them, but if I ever needed to contact them for some reason, email would be my preference.

I still have pictures of ex's in my photo albums, and I also have a work shirt from Scorpio and a sweatshirt of Virgo's hanging in my closet. I've worn both of them at home on occasion and they bring a smile to my heart and soul because their shirts are big and comfy and the memories I choose to remember are just nice.

If a man were to come into my life, find out where these shirts came from, made an issue out of it and demand that I get rid of the shirts or even get rid of my pictures, I'm not sure how exactly it would go, but I know it wouldn't go well.

Now if the next man I am with finds out about these shirts (and the only way he will is if someone else opens their big mouth), the smart thing for him to do is leave one of his own, not insist that I get rid of them to prove my feelings for him.

Do you see where I am going here dear?

Because when he leaves his shirt with his scent, reminding me of him and the good he is bringing into my life, THAT is the shirt that I'm going to want to wear to warm me up when it's chilly out or when I want a little extra comfort to my soul.

Until your BF gives you a clear reason for you to doubt him, (ugh! I am really struggling trying to say the right words here. I can't get them straight, so I'll let it go.)

I wish you all the best. :-)

Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,
You and your parents will continue in my to be in my prayers.

Looking after myself is still practice dear. Practice, practice, practice. It does get easier, and I have gotten better at it, but it is still practice.

These online dating guys are a hoot... trust your gut and hit delete! LOL

Anonymous said...

Hopeful, that disgusting comment was called a "neg" to get you to chase him out of curiousity. Online dating can work, I have several friends who met their hubbies online. One within the first week and the other after 2 years... so maybe its meant to be... don't give up hope.

Anonymous said...

@Gem50 and Anonymous,

Thank you very much for your support and encouragement. My father is back from hospital and mum is still ill in bed. I am living from minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day... because I can´t know what the furure will bring. I just hope for the best.

As for these men and their negs - I don´t understand why they do it. It is true that when they throw a sentence like that at you, you are confused but after confusion comes suspicion and disappointment. So overall, they don´t achieve much. Hopefully, there are some decent men on the internet but I have met so many jerks that I am not so sure anymore... Anyway, there´s always a sparkle of hope...

Thank you again for your responses, it helps to know that there are some friends there albeit virtual ones:-)

Have a nice Saturday and look after yourselves,
Hopeful

P.s.: The only positive this week has brought about is that I have forgotten the trainer for some time and now when I am feeling calmer I see him more realistically, not on a pedestal anymore (you were right, I had put him and his successful children on pedestal), and I see him as a coward:-(. And I am determined not to give him a chance if he happened to reappear. From now on - one chance per one (new) man.


Sunshine30 said...

Mirror,

I am writing to thank you for the awesome and uplifting community you have created here. Whenever I feel down, I come and read and re-read the comments. You have taught me a lot about observing men’s actions and how to stand strong as a woman.

Last summer I got involved with someone I already knew and trusted (a co worker). I had major surgery and he proved to be there for me after and was a huge support, sending me flowers, telling me he always wanted to be with me, etc. The bad thing was, he was moving away for work. I told him lets be friends and see what happens, but he insisted he wanted to make it work. We had an awesome couple of weeks together when I got out of the hospital. I got to know his child and at the time, I really could see myself with this guy.

A couple of weeks after he left, the communication started to dwindle, and I felt him begin to pull back. I followed your advice and gave him plenty of space and pulled back as well. I had planned to go on a vacation to California with my girl friends, and we agreed that I would go see him since it wasn’t too far of a flight. Well, he disappeared for 10 days before I was scheduled to depart. I did not reach out during this time, because I’m not about to chase. Shortly before he stopped communicating, he called me and I asked him does he still want me to come, to tell me now and I would not buy the ticket, no hard feelings. He insisted he did. His actions afterward showed otherwise.

My boss is his friend and saw me upset at work. He is a mentor to me and he knows me somewhat personally. He asked me what was wrong and I confessed that I started seeing the guy. He said he was not a good guy, treats women as conquests and he had knowledge that he was talking to another girl. He had proof via texts in his phone of the women he has conquered and bragged about. One of them was just a couple of weeks before he started seeing me, which he lied about. My boss told me I deserved way better and that the guy was stringing me along while he attended to another woman. I decided then I would not go on the trip, because the dose of logic my boss gave me provided me the clarity I needed. This man wasn’t making me happy... he was making me, a normally confident, attractive, and smart woman, feel insecure and miserable.

Three days before I was due to arrive the guy texted me and asked if I was still coming. Mirror, I was so hurt I couldn’t respond. That was the last time I heard from him. No call, no further texts, nothing.

For awhile I felt I did something wrong. After circling back around to this wonderful community of women, I realize that I did nothing wrong, he simply showed his true colors. He was an opportunist and seized an opportunity with me having surgery and having a death scare with my heart nearly going into cardiac arrest afterward. I knew he’d had a crush on me for a long time. It was all about the conquest. I wasn’t the first and I won’t be the last. After this happened, I thought my “gentleman detector” was broken, and have taken the past few months off from dating, and don’t intend to start until I move back to my home state in May. I have been observing my interactions with every day men, and have spotted a couple of good guys. I DO know what to look for. As for right now, I’m working on my schooling and myself, and will focus on dating later this year when I’m ready.

Thank you for letting me share my story. It has taken me almost four months to be ready to share it. Also, thank you to the wonderful women who have shared your story on this site. Gem50 and Hopeful I love reading your comments. It means so much.

Anonymous said...

Hi MoA,
i have written about this guy off and on and am very confused at the moment. We dated very briefly in late 2013 but never even kissed (though he hinted he would like to sleep with me) and then he sort of faded out, randomly keeping in touch off and on. We do get along well and he has a lot of respect for me I can tell. He even helped me out with something a few months ago when we reconnected.

Since we reconnected, he's been texting me every 10-14 days to say hi and chit chat a bit but didn't ask me out. Then when he texted around Xmas, I straight out asked him why he was so curious about me and whether he was just bored between flings. He said he thinks he must somewhat like me...I said I do too and that we should get to know each other better. He said that sounds good but how would we achieve that and I said he could ask me out. He then made some comment about sounds like a fairy tale and asked me when I was coming back from my holiday.

Then I texted him on NYE for a brief chit chat. However, he didn't wish me a happy new year and I next heard from him on the 17th asking how the year has started out. I was a bit annoyed by his random communication and didn't respond. He texted a one word prompt the next day again and I didn't respond again. Now I haven't heard from him in over a week.

My question is was I being too harsh in not responding? Should I be communicating more clearly about why I'm a bit bugged - that he only ever randomly texts me and this is not what I'm looking for...He seems like he's a bit shy and reserved and a bit insecure about whether I like him. On the other hand he may be cunning. I just feel like it's rude to ignore someone without clear communication especially if they've always treated you well. Do you think I should text him?

Lottie said...

Ms Mirror,

Thanks for your comments – I wholeheartedly agree with you. You have summed things up perfectly.

My profile still continues to attract attention. It has been so refreshing to receive emails which have so much thought behind them. A lot of them just loved reading my profile and were glad to find someone who respected old fashion values. I would never have thought that I would get so many lovely responses.

I said I would write a follow up to my recent online experiences because I have learnt a lot recently.

Equally I just want to let you know the frame of mind I was in when I decided I wanted to date seriously. I decided if I was serious about finding someone, then I needed to make time in my life. I didn’t stop my life but I put some things in my life on the back burner and I freed up time for myself.

I did not want to meet men half heartedly or to be distracted and not be able to give them my undivided attention. I decided if I was looking to find someone then I needed to apply the same tenacity as I would do, say if I was looking for a job or buying a house. These are big decisions in our lives and they need thought behind them so why not apply the same thought to dating?

I spent the best part of last year thinking about the narcissist doctor who bought me to this site. I replayed things in my head, I would think about him constantly and generally he just consumed my thoughts. Even when I met my friend for dinner a while ago and we had dinner at a place not too far from where I had gone on a lovely date with the doctor. I said to my friend even after everything that happened with him …’I was so happy back then and nothing has come close.. it’s fact’…and those feelings came gushing back.

I decided that I was going to make a conscious decision so when my mind regressed to the past I would snap myself out of it. I focused on the future and pictured my big ole house in the country filled with children…and that someone special [Although…I can’t seem to picture him]. It might seem a little far fetched but it was my only way to think forward…to think of the future rather than thinking of the past. I even looked at properties for sale on the internet and homes I could see myself living in in the future.

Effectively it’s a way to train my brain….a sort of mental discipline for myself. A bit like a work out for my brain and emotions.

But things have gone well, although I did get into an altercation with one chap. A highly educated guy who had written me a brief message, but a funny one at that and asked he if I wanted to ‘take things to the next level….and text or whatsapp’
I couldn’t help myself…but reply ‘cute…but I am not 16’. It didn’t go down too well, but I apologized for being facetious and just said that I preferred a man to call, it was nice to hear a mans voice. Like I said he took it the wrong way and wasn’t really interested in my reasoning, so I just left it.

I did meet someone through my online experience and I will share this with you very shortly.

Hopeful - I hope when I write next, that it might just give you hope that things are not too bad out there.
Unfortunately it is very late here now and I must sleep so I apologise, but I will write soon.

Best wishes Lottie. x

Anonymous said...

Goodnight Mirror and ladies, it's 'Writing from Jamaica' here

Still reading posts and comments from everyone. It's nice to hear from Gem50, Chk61 and Hopeful in recent times :) Hopeful, stay strong. I will send up a prayer for you and your family.

Well, since Christmas day and his 'what have I done' text, DM contacted me on two separate occasions.

Three weeks ago (Jan 9), he called me 4 times, then left a text message saying that he hopes I am ok, that he has been trying to reach me, told me that he has moved houses and told me the area where he is currently living. No response from me.

Tonight, while watching tv, at 10:30 he calls me twice. I let it go to voicemail. Surprisingly he actually left a voice message this time. I listen to it. 50% of it I cannot hear, as he was in an area where the reception wasn't great, so the message was quite choppy. From what I could decipher he again said to me that he has been trying to reach me, we haven't spoken in a long time...and IF(he emphasized the if) it is that there's someone else why didn't I just tell him, rather than ignore his calls. He went on to say something to the effect of 'he guess that that's just my way of expressing myself, so what can he do'. He said a sentence or two after that, that I could not make out at all.

He sounded calm in the message. Not confrontational or upset...perhaps even a bit sad.

So I sit there for a while thinking and I say to myself that he really has been trying to reach me for a while, repeatedly. An unknown number called yesterday. It could have also been him, who knows. I think to myself I don't want to keep avoiding unknown calls, just because it could possibly be him. I don't want to be weary of picking up an unknown number because if I do pick up, and it's him- that would be broken NC and I would have to start over.

For the past couple months, I really have been trying to focus on ME. I would be lying though, if I said that I don't still think about him. Continuing on the path of NC and looking after yourself DOES take practice as you have said Gem50....but after listening to the message I sit there thinking and I think maybe I should just speak with him, hear what he has to say and close this chapter once and for all. We were together for 7 years (this year will be 9 years since we met), he has been trying to reach me (as he has said more than once), so maybe he wants to have a conversation.

An hour later (and after my show ends) I make up my mind that I would call him back, to let him know that I received his message, but did not hear more than half of it - and give him an opportunity to say what he has to say. I call once, but it goes to voicemail.

He will see the missed call. If he calls back, I will answer. Otherwise, I'm not calling again. Ladies, Mirror, am I doing the right thing? I know that at some point I have to take what I have learned and decide how to proceed myself, but I really wanted to share with you all what has been happening with me. I am still a work in progress, so any input would be appreciated.

I wish everyone a wonderful week
~Writing From Jamaica

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 25, 4:06 PM,
"My question is was I being too harsh in not responding?"

No - his actions (and lack thereof) are already signaling that he'd be a waste of your time :-(

"Should I be communicating more clearly about why I'm a bit bugged"

No - again, it'd be a waste of your time. You don't have to explain yourself to someone who isn't explaining themselves to you. You don't owe this many any explanations.

"He seems like he's a bit shy and reserved and a bit insecure about whether I like him."

I don't see it that way dear. I actually see that HE is unsure about whether or not HE likes you "he must somewhat like me." His use of "somewhat" means it's not a sure thing and that He is the one who is unsure about how HE feels (which is why he's most likely not making any moves). :-(

"Do you think I should text him?"

No - the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested is to see if HE pursues YOU. When women pursue men, the tend to mistake that for desperation. Additionally, if a woman is pursuing the man, she'll never truly know if he's genuinely interested or not. Read this piece written by a man:

http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2011/09/dont-initiate-contact.html

And honestly dear, I'm just going to say this - but this man is already signaling he's a waste of time. A man that feels that asking for a date "sounds like a fairy tale" is completely out of touch. Dating is not a fairy tale - it's how two people get to know one another. All this man is signaling is that he feels SEX is how people get to know each other, which is incorrect.

A man who feels that asking for a date, or that dating in and of itself, is a fairy tale - is a man that is NOT going to TREAT YOU WELL dear. He's already signaling that he wouldn't treat you well - or like a lady - so why bother.

This guy just doesn't get it, and you explaining yourself to him won't change the fact that he's basically seeking sex - and isn't willing to go about dating properly in order to attain it :-(

Anonymous said...

You are so on point. I love the TD Jakes video. Please consider sharing tips on getting back to dating after being on a sabbatical

Anonymous said...

I know this guy and he was rude with me for a while but the problem is that I like him .... he becomes mad at me without any real reason and then return to normal and so on.....but in this one it lasts for a month now that instead of me being mad at him for being rude, he is the one who is mad at me ..... I don't know why, I've asked him twice if there is anything wrong and he said everything is fine. I don't think asking for a third time is a good idea

there is this girl who talked about him badly to me and I answered her that I don't want to intervene between you guys. i really appreciate him and never talk badly about him. I don't know if she lied and told him that I said something bad about him.

But recently he asked me to participate with him in a project, he is still mad though. But I am thinking that if she told him something then he'll just hate me and never suggest to work with me on this project that he knows it'll make me happy to participate in .....

Your thoughts mirror
Thanks in advance

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 27, 6:49 PM,
"Your thoughts mirror"

Well, I think it's wrong to "really appreciate him" when he "was rude with me for a while. . .becomes mad at me without any real reason." What is there to appreciate about that? If you signal to him that you appreciate that type of treatment from him, and that you still appreciate him even when he treats you poorly - then he'll continue doing it.

I would not signal, or tell others, that I "really appreciate" someone who's treating me like crap, ya' know?

"recently he asked me to participate with him in a project, he is still mad though."

I would NOT lend assistance to someone who treats me poorly, and exhibits anger towards me without explanation. I would not participate in anything with an individual who is taking me and my friendship for granted like that.

NEVER reward bad behavior with more of your time and attention - unless, of course, you want more bad behavior to come from the person.

When you reward bad behavior, all you do is encourage more of it. For instance, if you had a puppy and it peed on the floor - would you reward it with a treat? Would you want the puppy to associate peeing on the floor with a reward - thinking it'll get a treat every time it pees on the floor? If you give a puppy a reward, a treat, every time it pees on your floor, then guess what?

Every time that puppy wants a treat, it's going to pee on your floor. Not because it's a bad puppy, but because that's what YOU have signaled to the puppy through your own actions.

When a puppy behaves badly and pees on the floor, instead of a reward, the puppy receives a CONSEQUENCE - it no longer has access to you and is placed outside. The puppy then starts to associate a need to pee with being outside. As that puppy grows, in time, that association will have the puppy running to the door when it needs to pee, signaling it needs to go outside. And the puppy doesn't do this because it's the world's smartest puppy - it does this because YOUR ACTIONS have signaled what behavior you expect from the puppy. Additionally, the puppy learns that if it wants to be with you and receive love and attention from you, it has to behave properly - or it will receive the exact opposite and be placed outside - all alone.

People learn behaviors and what's expected of them in the same exact manner - through CONSEQUENCE.

Bad behavior = negative consequence. Good behavior = reward.

When someone treats you poorly, you do NOT reward them for that - or you will be encouraging more bad behavior from them. Instead, they receive a negative consequence for their bad behavior - which is no access to you, no attention from you, and no reward from you.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,
Yesterday I ran across this SICK article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2929498/How-woman-bag-man-dreams-just-60-days.html How pathetic is that????? This is so crazy, and it made me think of what you said about a man wanting to be someone's 'bitch' and wanting you to bring him flowers!!!!!!! Crazy!!!!!
Hugs, mary

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

It's Mary again... I'm just so annoyed right now. The DM never tells me when he's going to come by for a visit!! (He lives very nearby)
He's always busy and then 'this' and then 'that' yet he keeps saying "see you soon!!!!" and "hope to see you SOOOOOOON!!"

OK, so I wondered if he would finally show up today but no, first thing in the morning I get an email " I can't come because...." and then some excuse about his daughter (teenager) being at his place and feeling sick. OK, so that can happen of course ... He added again: "hope to see you very soon!"

I asked him when he thinks he can see me then because he never tells me!!! (and that's what annoys me sooooo much, he never tells me!!!!)
He replied with: "I can't say , but I'll try to come by some time after work next week." (He always works different shifts and next week is the week where he works the day shift... but that means he'll only have 10 mins to spare because then he has to make dinner again.

I'm just so annoyed! He can at least tell me at what DAY he can possibly come by???? Instead of always leaving me hanging???? So my plan is now to ignore his last email, and I'm thinking of being gone every time he comes home from work next week... Is that a good plan? Will that teach him that he has to make plans in advance if he wants to see me? (I don't think he'll learn anything but it's best not to be at home, don't you think? Or hide upstairs for all I care and lock my doors!!) Or do you think he'll think I don't care about seeing him?

xo Mary

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
That guy who wrote that book is a complete ass. He must've had trouble dating and manning up, so he created this false illusion that throwing yourself at a man is how one will fall in love with you.

Trouble is - HE'S A MAN. He knows NOTHING about what REALLY happens when a woman throws herself at a man - 99% of the time, they discard you like used garbage within months. And this jerk is hanging onto the rare 1% that actually works for.

Equally, I'd like to know just exactly how much dating experience this guy's really had because if he knew anything about modern day dating, he would NOT have made this statement:

"Women need to play it hot from day one. While everyone else is backing off and waiting to be called, you need to be proactive."

It's not 1950 anymore and the exact opposite is taking place in the dating world - the majority of women, particularly when online dating, are actually pursuing the man. Not the other way around as he's claiming.

"Even better, on the date, you should have paid for his drinks and dinner and 'put him on a pedestal'.

And honestly, to me, this just sounds like another lazy, insecure man -- instructing women to sacrifice themselves and their dignity to land a man, and to make thing easy on HIM. By the time I pay for a man's drinks and dinner. . .I've already decided that I'm doing so -- so I can get the hell outta' there because I have no intention whatsoever of seeing him ever again.

If the man is displaying feminine traits, sitting back on his laurels and expecting ME to court HIM like I'm the dude (in the masculine role) and he's the woman (in the feminine submissive role) - I'm never going to be attracted to him to even WANT to see him again.

Women want to date men - not other women LOL.

And thank God someone with a brain interjected in that interview and said:

"This Morning's resident relationship expert Denise Robertson disagreed with Blake's advice. She said women shouldn't make it 'all about the man' and put all his needs first and she was shocked that Blake was recommending women jump straight into bed with a man.

She said a healthy relationship isn't about a woman 'controlling' a man and treating him like he's stupid."

This guy is completely out of touch. He's feminine, he's instructing other men to be feminine -- and he's advising women to "man-up". He is the epitome of exactly what's hurting modern day men and making women lack respect for them -- laziness, lack of masculinity, display of femininity, and a deep sense of "entitlement."

All he's doing is perpetuating the unnerving flip flop that has taken place in society when it comes to Mother Nature's naturally assigned gender roles. He is completely out of touch with what's really happening out there and that book is probably nothing but a good laugh LOL ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mary,
Don't wait around on a man like this dear. He's doing this and not making time for you or solid plans because he thinks 1) you've got no other men in your life 2) he senses you're waiting on him. As a result, I believe this man is stringing you along :-(

DM's generally are not interested in committed relationships. So if you're expecting a commitment from this man, you may want to rethink that because his actions are signaling the exact opposite. He's signaling that, at best, this will only ever be a casual hookup situation when it's convenient for him and nothing more. Additionally, he's only talking about coming over for a sofa date. If this man isn't treating you well and asking you out on real dates, this is as good as it's ever going to get with him dear.

If I were you, I'd think about what I want and need to truly be happy. If I decided I wanted a relationship, and I wanted to date in the traditional manner in a way that could have the potential to lead to a committed relationship. . .I would not waste another ounce of my time on this man - who happens to be a DM.

If you re-read the article above dear - in some 5,000 comments and stories shared on the original DM article here on this site. . .not once, not one time - was there ever a happy ending with a DM. Their actions signal that they are not interested in committed relationships. They don't want them, and they don't enter into them. . .and they simply just don't make commitments period.

So if you expecting a commitment from this man to see you or make time for you - it may never happen :-(

chk61 said...

Good morning, ladies! Thought I would regale you with another story from the online dating front!

A man I was corresponding with, traded photos and other information with, seemed *very* interested in meeting me. He is my age, went to a prominent law school, divorced with a high school aged son. I was able to confirm his professional presence via Google, and that he was a real live, solid person. Sounds like an upstanding citizen, right?

I let HIM ask ME out, which he did. We made a plan to meet that I had to change and gave him two days notice. Since I was canceling I offered another option. Occasionally I perform at public events and I had a couple upcoming performances that coming weekend. He seemed so well-adjusted, friendly and normal that I threw caution to the wind and suggested he could attend one, and we could meet briefly there. He agreed and said he was looking forward to it. As the date approached, I offered a bit more information about the event as the weather was looking iffy and I knew he had a long drive. He again, seemed quite excited about attending and confirmed he would be there.

Well, the night came and went. No sign of Mr. Upstanding. No polite email explaining why he was a no-show. And to perplex me even more, he visited my profile (which has an obscured photo, I am going incognito at present, and I send photos to men I think pass the sniff test...he got a bunch of photos) at 2:00AM that very night he was supposed to attend my event. Yet, he has not contacted me since.

And despite my temptation to email him to instruct him what polite adults normally do when not showing up AT ALL, I have decided to just move on. Sigh.

Anonymous said...

"Women want to date men - not other women LOL."

Exactly! haha I figured I really had to send this article to you, because I'm sure you would have a good laugh about it ;). I was looking at this guy's pics and I thought to myself that he even looked feminine in the way he sits...

I also read quite a few of the comments underneath the article and thankfully most people disagreed with him, although there were a few lazy men who thought it was a good idea to have a woman chasing after them LOL!! (Oh and a few women who agreed with the feminine's man's book too and how it was a 'fresh new look' and 'no playing games' ....... hm............. )

Oh yes, I was so glad to see that there was a smart woman around too in the interview!! ;). It's so unattractive when a man acts the way he does
ughhhh

***
Also, thanks for the advice on the DM. I think you must be right about him thinking I have no other men in my life and that he senses that I'm waiting on him. He always acts like he has changed but I know he hasn't...

I'll be at home next week but I think I'll just lock my doors and pretend not to be at home. It really isn't too much to ask for to at least tell me WHEN he thinks he comes to say hello , but no instead he thinks he can come barging in any time it pleases him.
I hate it that he lives so close to me, because of him barging in whenever he wants to (or not).

Oh yes that's so true, I've read all the comments on every article and no happy ending ever... And I don't really expect a relationship with him anymore (although I'm sure he'll continue to try to have sex with me - but I have my replies ready and practiced them in front of the mirror)

Anyway, your reply was very helpful (it always is) and I will just be gone or pretend to be gone each time he comes home from work next week . That way he'll have even more time for himself, how nice is that!!!!!!!!!! :)

Mary

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everyone,

Since the last time I posted I had a bit of an emotional hiccup. After he left me the choppy voice msg (Sunday), I made the decision to call him back ONE time. He didn't pick up, nor has he contacted me since, to acknowledge the call or return it.

I am disappointed in myself that I broke NC, but as the sting wears off, I'm finding reasons to smile to myself now.

He actually had the chance to speak to me (or at least be mature enough to acknowledge the call), but instead he chose to play a game. He has to live with the consequence. The sting is not too bad because I only called once (I did not text at all, just called one time), so my dignity is still intact... and to be honest I’m GLAD he did not pick up. I don’t know what I was thinking at the time when I called because I do NOT want to speak to him.

Mirror I know you have heard me say I'm done before, but now I'm truly done. Perhaps he feels his manipulative and vindictive game is going to break me down to make me call again or send a text, but no.

Back to NC. When he realizes his game crashed and burned, probably what will start to drive him crazy is the fact that - he had his chance to pick up/maturely acknowledge – missed it – so now he has to go lie in the bed that he made. I’m leaving him to himself and the pending guilt he will likely feel soon enough, because guess what? I am NEVER looking back again.

I have one more question for you Mirror: Should I block his number? Or just continue to IGNORE (I don’t want him to have even a slight bit of reassurance that I’m affected by him WHATSOEVER, so if blocking is going to do that, then I’ll just ignore)

Lastly, I'll leave this song with you ladies. I’ve been listening to it every day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO40TcKa_5U

We have to be bad, bold and wiser as well as hard, tough and stronger! :-)
Love (the love we have for ourselves) will save the day

-Writing from Jamaica

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, its Anonymous Jan 25, 4:06 PM. So after I ignored his 2 texts, about 10 days later I get a very late night message on a social network asking if I'm OK and how come I didn't respond to his texts. I replied the next day saying I'm good, very busy and how was he. He responded jokingly (literally seconds later)- so I was just ignoring him and that he's been busy too. I said I guess I must've been and that I'm not a huge texter anyway.

Then at the end of the day he says we need to meet up and he wants to hear about my holiday and hinted whether I had met someone there. He's always been very curious about whether I was seeing other guys, I have no idea why. I said let's see as it's really busy these days. He said it's the same for him so no rush...( I may be off here but I think he may be hinting back to the first time we dated when he was kinda pushing for sex after the second date and I said I'm slow and take time).

I know it is all talk until he actually follows through but I don't get why he gets so activated when he thinks there might be someone else...not like he's dating me (he told me a few months ago that he was taking a break from dating to focus on his career btw)! Do you think I should be upfront with him that I need more than 5 word texts once in 2 weeks or something along those lines? Not sure if it matters but he's Taurus and I'm Pisces...

I may be talking complete nonsense here but I have an underlying feeling that he's in love with me (have you ever had that kind of gut feel Mirror and is it always right?). As for me, I often think he's the biggest idiot in the world...so maybe I am too! lol What do you advise Mirror?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jan 29, 4:46 PM,
"I don't get why he gets so activated when he thinks there might be someone else"

Because whether men admit it or not (and sometimes they're not even really aware of it because they lack self-awareness) - men like a challenge, hence their love of sports - competition. It excites them.

"Do you think I should be upfront with him that I need more than 5 word texts once in 2 weeks or something along those lines?"

No - instructing a man how to date you isn't going to get the results you want and it comes across as reprimanding them, much like a mother would do. The next time he says you guys need to meet up, say "Sure, I'd love to, dinner would be great. Pick a place and let me know the date and time and I'll be there."

If he fails to do that - then he's signaling that he's not a man that's going to date you properly anyway. He's also a man that's signaling that he's not serious about dating you. That's the green light he's looking for and if he doesn't take it - then he's not worth your time.

Anonymous said...

@Sunshine30
Thank you for your appreciation, it feels very good indeed:-)

@Lottie
Thank you for encouragement. Yes, while we are alive there is always hope... I hope yours is and will be a success story:-)

@chk61
I think there´s still chance that something unexpected had happened to him, he couldn´t attend, returned home late at night and routinely checked his e-mails and your profile as well. Since then he has been busy and burdened with problems and when he is available he will contact you, apologise and suggest another date. Anything is possible. Or maybe he was just lazy to drive because of unpleasant weather, at the last moment decided not to attend and now can´t decide what to do so he is doing nothing. I believe, however, that in both scenarios a decent man would have let you hear from him and said sorry so in my opinion if he doesn´t reappear, good for you. And these "good catches" know that about themselves and behave accordingly. They never seem to bother much about women because they know if nor this one, there will be another one:-(. I would like to be able to adopt this mentalityLOL. So in conclusion I would say there is likelihood he will reappear some time later after he explores some other options.

Mirror and everyone,
have a nice weekend,
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

P.s. Writing from Jamaica, I´d like to thank you too. Maybe your prayers have helped because my parents are relatively okay - not perfectly okay but the worst is over, at least for... nobody knows how long but every moment counts:-) By the way, this international community is really something special, I would have never thought of having a friend in Jamaica:-)

And the book you mention above - well, that´s something terrible, isn´t it? And ladies (especially the less experienced ones), please be careful about absorbing advice concerning dating or whatever. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious nonsense but there is some advice out there which sounds wise but in reality undermines women´s self-esteem and confidence. E.g. "He Is Not That Into You" - yes, it has been translated into many languages including my mother tongue! When I read it I thought - true. Yes, I still think it is. However, when he repeats on every single page of the book a man isn´t that into you it is as he was saying - you aren´t the right woman for this man, there´s another (better, more attractive, etc.) woman who will be able to capture his heart. Your self-confidence will definitely go down if you continue meeting men who are not into you. And the truth is that there are REALLY men who aren´t into anyone, I know about three or four such man, they have never loved a woman. So many of this books are bestsellers, the authors have earned a lot of money, there´s some truth in them but real life and real people are another thing.
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

@ feeling sad
Oh mirror... Oh mirror.. I am so devastated. Remember when I said I was asking for clarity from my higher power. I was finding things like emails and a fake diamond ring site? Again, I was asked to house sit. I promise you I am NOT looking under rocks... It's just fate, in my opinion.

I come across a bottle of anti-herpes medication. (The genital kind.) I was looking for an extra toothbrush and there it was... I decided I was not even going to stop and ask for advice from you this time. I just hit it on the head when he got home. Yes, he said it was true. For 2 years he has not told me. He said that as long as he takes his medication, no girlfriend/wife has gotten it. He's had it for 15 years. (It is true... I am a symptomatic.) I asked him when he planned on telling me and he said he told his wife when they were about to get married and his other girlfriend before me - at about the same time frame... 2 years when things got serious.

Any comments or words of wisdom?... I don't know what to think. I am just shell-shocked and devastated. He did ask me what I thought I would do... I'd like to think that I would have had this conversation way before now.

LittleMissConfused said...

Hi there Mirror

I recently found out about your website and let me tell you how amazing I think you are at giving advice to all women out there! :) keep up the excellent work!

I was wondering if you can help me with this guy I've been courting online in the last past 3 weeks. You see I'm Asian and I was introduced to this guy by my parent's friends. I've never met him in real life and this is basically a virtual 'getting to know each other stage'

On our first week he pulled a disappearing act on me by stopping at the middle of conversation or not messaging me for a day. This may have been an early warning sign but I gave the benefit of doubt. I kept on blaming myself for being too open/eager and aggressive at the start. I played the no contact rule and eventually he came back and pursued me stronger than ever.

I tried to act cool and distant and it worked in the last 2 weeks but 2 days ago after he was finishing a conversation with him messaging me 'have a good dream' I replied and said ' I hope I have another sweet dream of u' thinking it was a harmless flirt I haven't heard from him in 2 days. Now I know 2 days is nothing but he would usually message me for 6 days and then take one day off to give both of us some space.

No matter how much I try to hide my passionate Leo side I keep on displaying emotions which I shouldn't have. He's a capricorn and he seems a lot more serious and emotionally in control.

This time around he may take a lot longer to come back or not come back at all. I'm starting to really like him and this is causing me a lot of pain..should I keep on following the no contact rule to see if he going to reappear?

Any answer is appreciated Mirror :)

LittleMissConfused said...

Hi there Mirror

I recently found out about your website and let me tell you how amazing I think you are at giving advice to all women out there! :) keep up the excellent work!

I was wondering if you can help me with this guy I've been courting online in the last past 3 weeks. You see I'm Asian and I was introduced to this guy by my parent's friends. I've never met him in real life and this is basically a virtual 'getting to know each other stage'

On our first week he pulled a disappearing act on me by stopping at the middle of conversation or not messaging me for a day. This may have been an early warning sign but I gave the benefit of doubt. I kept on blaming myself for being too open/eager and aggressive at the start. I played the no contact rule and eventually he came back and pursued me stronger than ever.

I tried to act cool and distant and it worked in the last 2 weeks but 2 days ago after he was finishing a conversation with him messaging me 'have a good dream' I replied and said ' I hope I have another sweet dream of u' thinking it was a harmless flirt I haven't heard from him in 2 days. Now I know 2 days is nothing but he would usually message me for 6 days and then take one day off to give both of us some space.

No matter how much I try to hide my passionate Leo side I keep on displaying emotions which I shouldn't have. He's a capricorn and he seems a lot more serious and emotionally in control.

This time around he may take a lot longer to come back or not come back at all. I'm starting to really like him and this is causing me a lot of pain..should I keep on following the no contact rule to see if he going to reappear?

Any answer is appreciated Mirror :)

LittleMissConfused said...

Hi there Mirror

I recently found out about your website and let me tell you how amazing I think you are at giving advice to all women out there! :) keep up the excellent work!

I was wondering if you can help me with this guy I've been courting online in the last past 3 weeks. You see I'm Asian and I was introduced to this guy by my parent's friends. I've never met him in real life and this is basically a virtual 'getting to know each other stage'

On our first week he pulled a disappearing act on me by stopping at the middle of conversation or not messaging me for a day. This may have been an early warning sign but I gave the benefit of doubt. I kept on blaming myself for being too open/eager and aggressive at the start. I played the no contact rule and eventually he came back and pursued me stronger than ever.

I tried to act cool and distant and it worked in the last 2 weeks but 2 days ago after he was finishing a conversation with him messaging me 'have a good dream' I replied and said ' I hope I have another sweet dream of u' thinking it was a harmless flirt I haven't heard from him in 2 days. Now I know 2 days is nothing but he would usually message me for 6 days and then take one day off to give both of us some space.

No matter how much I try to hide my passionate Leo side I keep on displaying emotions which I shouldn't have. He's a capricorn and he seems a lot more serious and emotionally in control.

This time around he may take a lot longer to come back or not come back at all. I'm starting to really like him and this is causing me a lot of pain..should I keep on following the no contact rule to see if he going to reappear?

Any answer is appreciated Mirror :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Feeling Sad,
You need to decide if you really want to be with this man or not, and then educate yourself on this health situation through your doctor - a real doctor - not Dr. Google.

I don't believe this particular STD is a life or death situation, and although I do not know much about it myself and you would need to consult with your doctor on this, I imagine there is a large portion of the population that responsibly manages this daily in life. And if you find out from your doctor that it's a situation that can be responsibly managed, and he does responsibly manage it, and you decide that you truly do want to be with this man. . .then you both manage the situation together.

I do believe he should've told you sooner, but at this point that's water under the bridge and all you can do is make a decision about what to do moving forward.

As much as we hate to admit it, STD's are a fact of life and they DO affect a large portion of the population. But many of them can be managed responsibly.

Beyond that however, I do think you need to look beyond each individual situation that's happened recently and look at the big picture here and ask yourself if you truly trust this man enough to be with him. Because while you say these situations are happening by chance, whether they are or not, I think the REAL issue here is TRUST. I don't think this is about rings, emails, STD's and exes. . .I think this is about trust.

If you reach the conclusion that you do not ultimately trust this man - then you cannot be with him. Trust is the foundation that any healthy relationship is built on and without it, a healthy relationship will not exist. Instead, a toxic relationship that has an air of hostility, mistrust and constant turmoil will be the end result.

So the real question here is - do you trust this man enough to spend your life with him? If the answer is no, then it's time to move on. If the answer is yes, then you need to agree to put the emails, the ex and the rings behind you, work through the STD situation together after consulting with your doctor and educating yourself on the matter - and then let this relationship grow organically into what it was meant to be.

And while it is upsetting that he did not inform you of this sooner, and that will break trust, the reality here is that no one but you can decide if this man is the RIGHT man for you - and whether or not you trust this man enough to spend a lifetime with him. The reality is that you're going to need to look within yourself for those answers dear.

My suggestion would be to first consult with your doctor and educate yourself. If you decide you can move past the STD situation and responsibly manage it, then next you need to decide if you can leave the emails, rings and ex in the past. If you decide you can do that, then lastly - you need to sit with your emotions and your feelings and the new knowledge you have and decide if you can trust this man. And these aren't decisions to be made in a few days or during periods when emotions are running high. I'd suggest taking a break from the relationship a bit, pulling back from it a bit, and giving him and yourself some time and space to process all that has happened. Once emotions have settled and logic can reign forth, then it's time to make the final decision as to whether or not you will move forward, leaving all of this behind - with or without him.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@LittleMissConfused,
"should I keep on following the no contact rule to see if he going to reappear?"

My suggestion would be to do that - to not contact him and see if he reappears to contact you. It's the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested or not. Additionally, this gives you space and time to detach emotionally a bit to keep things in perspective and balance, so you don't become more emotionally invested than he is.

This also helps to pace things out in a healthy manner because the reality here is that you are not in a committed relationship with this man and therefore, cannot expect a commitment of daily, regular communication. You've never even met him yet so you need to separate the "illusion" from the "reality" here.

Meaning, right now, you hold an illusion of what you THINK he is in your minds eye. However, you have not gotten the privilege of seeing the reality yet. So you can't let yourself believe that the illusion you hold of who this man MIGHT be, is actually the reality of who he TRULY is - because you don't know who he truly is yet.

So let the time and space take place, don't panic and don't contact him. You don't know this man, he's a complete stranger at this point, and you have to remind yourself of that so that you don't start to believe that the illusion of him you hold in your minds eye is actually the reality here. You will not see the reality of who he is until you are able to start spending time with him over an extended length.

Until that happens - don't reach any conclusions about him - because right now, you're only basing your conclusions on what he's told you. . .which may or may not be true. And you won't find out the truth until you get to start spending time with him. If you want to know if a man is genuinely interested or not, the only way to do that is to see if HE pursues YOU - and then follows through with ACTION.

chk61 said...

@Hopeful:

Thanks for your thoughts. It has been over a week and still no email from this man. I know he has been active on the dating site, so it's not like he's been held captive or is in the hospital and unable to use his hands. ;-)

It's the nature of the beast with online dating. He's probably juggling 10 other women he has corresponded with, and they are all probably intelligent and attractive. With that much choice, how to pick just ONE? Obviously, since I have never actually met or spoke with this man, I cannot take it personally. I still don't understand why he could not take the 30 seconds required to send me an email though. Maybe he wants to keep me as an option as he wades through the hundreds of female profiles available to him through his fingertips. I just have to chuckle, shrug my shoulders, and continue to enjoy my own company.

I hope that you and your parents are doing well.

Lottie said...

i Ms Mirror,

I quite agree with you about that chap who wrote that book – What a complete and utter lazy individual. If only he knew how pathetic he sounded to woman and I am sure to men as well. No REAL man would ever say and do such a thing.

But I wanted to share with you a positive story following on from my recent online dating approach. One of the first chaps to contact me sent me a lovely email and said that my profile had struck a cord with him and that he considered himself a gentleman but he wasn’t sure if that was termed a compliment anymore by many people, as principles of honesty and keeping your word are seen as old-fashioned to many.

So a couple of emails back and forth he said that the best thing as a first step was to call. He asked for my number and followed up with a call. He was lovely to talk too, very smart and well spoken and we just had a very nice conversation. So we agreed to meet for some drinks etc. Now he is not from the same city as me but he made the journey down to see me. We had arranged to meet outside a hotel. I was suffering from one of those nasty winter bugs, and even the night before, I had text him that I might need to cancel as I was still quite poorly. I woke up Saturday, over the worst of it but with very little energy. I decided I was still going to meet up with him.

So we met outside this hotel – It was a very nice 5* luxury hotel, but I thought we would just find a nice bar somewhere and go for afternoon drinks. He insisted that we went in this hotel. He enquired at the restaurant which as expected was fully booked, but there was availability in the bar. He asked me if I would be happy with that. I had no issue. But being a very nice hotel, the bar was better equipped that most restaurants. We sat in these lovely comfy chairs with modest lighting, it was like old England. Just the perfect place to sit and talk. We talked, he was very knowledgeable and I was fascinated in what he had say. Equally he was interested in me as well and asked me lots of questions and the conversation flowed.

I was feeling quite poorly still and he insisted that I eat something and at least get something down me. I had no appetite, but I was conscious he had come a long way and would be hungry. So I opted for soup and then he insisted we order a pudding and then finished off with a liqueur. So 3 hrs later it was time to go and he asked for the bill. I knew it would be pricey. He took the bill and got out his card, I asked if could pay half [I know Ms Mirror you always tell us a man should pay for this] but it was a soft attempt and I was very glad he declined my offer.

So we walked out and I thanked him very much for the lovely lunch and company. He asked if he could see me again, which I said that would be very nice. As first dates go, that went surprisingly well.

So over Xmas, he called as he said he would. He was going away on holiday and texted me New Years Eve. Before he went he had asked me if I wanted anything, I asked if he could get me a fridge magnet of the country.

So things were going fine …he would call in the week asking how things were and he arranged a second date. It was so nice to get calls from someone where I could share the smallest detail that had gone on in my day. He was just genuinely interested. He was coming to see me again and we had arranged to go to a museum.

We talked more and went for lunch again where he picked up the tab, no questions asked. We were more open with each other this time, we could talk about our pasts and the future and so I guess we knew where we both stood. There were no red flags or alarm bells ringing at all and certainly no game playing. He asked me what I was looking for…and I said a ‘Gentleman’. I also told him that he behaved liked the perfect one an stood head and shoulders above most men that I had met.

Cont...

Lottie said...

The third time, He really wanted to pull the stops out and booked a very nice restaurant and a high end bar/club afterwards. I told him I didn’t need to go anywhere fancy. But he insisted. This is where I got a little uncomfortable.

I wasn’t ready to go to a club with him. I knew the reason why. I knew that if we went to a club there would be more chances to get a bit closer physically.
I wasn’t ready for that. I wasn’t sure what a guy would expect by a 3rd date, so I felt slightly pressured. I was unsure of my feelings at this stage.

I told him the evening sounded great, but that a club was not my cup of tea and that something low key after might be better. I know he was disappointed but he said we could play it by ear.

So we met at a very swanky place, had some cocktails followed by dinner. As the night drew to an end and he walked me back to station I knew that we had become friends and we had a lot in common, but that romantic connection had not developed for me.

My head had given my emotions the green light to proceed but it did not happen.
I didn’t feel that romantic connection.

I knew I had to tell him, it was best to be honest. So when we got to the station I told him.

Ahhhh…..it was so difficult. I didn’t want to do this to him. I told him I had a lovely night with him. He said he could ‘feel a BUT coming’ and so I told him. I told him my feelings had not caught up.

I know it’s not nice being on the receiving end but he handled it well.

But this is where he could be separated from the boys. Instead of lashing out, or saying something spiteful or mean…..which I knew could be possible, he said lets go for coffee and talk. I agreed.

So we talked, just openly and honestly. There was no pressure, we didn’t need to please each other or put on a pretense, we could just be ourselves. He said that I should have told him that I was not comfortable with going to a club. He said he was sorry if I felt pressurized. He put his hand on my hand and talked. He asked me if there was someone else. I told him there wasn’t. He said he didn’t think there was. He said he wanted to settle down, have a family and was ready for the next steps.. So we pondered life for a bit and all we really wanted was to find that someone we could take the next steps in our lives with.

He told me if I ever wanted to come up and see him I would be more than welcome. It’s been a week and we haven’t been in contact.

I ask myself should I have given it more time? Should we have remained as friends and see if things could develop? Should we have kissed, maybe that might have triggered something???? Lots of questions going around in my head which I don’t have answers for.

But it’s a funny old business, dating. He came along and treated me just like I wanted. No games and with respect. Any yes it was very difficult to have to say those words to him.

But I know there are gentleman out there. It’s not a fairy tale ending…I entered this with honest intentions so I don’t beat myself up too much. I would not have known if I had not given it a shot.

I have learnt a lot though. I would say when dating online, it’s best to date with your head first. You can weed out those that will give you heartache and waste your time. And don’t forget, on your profile don’t be afraid to ask what you are looking for. And those that past muster, ……well you hope that the initial buds of romance flourish into something big and wonderful and you really will have something solid to build on.

Best Wishes.
Lottie x

Gem50 said...

@Chk,
"Maybe he wants to keep me as an option as he wades through the hundreds of female profiles available to him through his fingertips."

I thought this interesting because of the "assumption" this refers to and seems prevalent with so many in society. If this guy is assuming you'll be waiting around for his next contact, I hope you surprise him by not responding how he expects.

I don't think it's just online behavior either. I went out this weekend for dinner and drinks at bar down the street with gf. We sat at corner of bar where four men in 50's-60's sat perpendicular. I was on the corner and the only single one out of the four was sitting on the corner of me. Early into our conversation, Corner guy asks me if I have cats.

"Yes, I have three of them".

He tells me that it's too bad that I have cats. I chuckled to myself and thought I'd have a little fun with this 56-yr old man who thought pretty highly of himself (and was clearly making assumptions).

I asked why it matters to him whether I have cats or not.

"I have asthma."

"Ok," I said, with a "I'm not getting where you are going" expression on my face. lol

"Since I'm allergic to cats, I can't come over to your place."

I looked directly at him. Pausing a second, I smiled and he smiled back. Then I laughed, and then poor 56-yr old Corner guy lost ALL his mo-jo.

I didn't really listen to anything he said after that, but bits and pieces of what he said were pretty self-deprecating.... "for a fat guy," and "3 minutes" and "hates football," and "doesn't read," "doesn't hike," and has used up 1/2 of his personal days for the year at work. I had to respond to that one asking, "Um, you know it's only January, right?" lol

When I came back from the ladies room, gf was in my seat and they hit it off the rest of the time we were there -- exchanging numbers before we left. Oh boy.

Don't give up Chk. I'm not. There ARE good people out there -- just few and far between. ;-)

hugs to all


Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This guy from my work asked me to go to lunch before Xmas, which I thought went fine. I had a Xmas party that night, which I told him about. He text me that evening asking how the party was. I replied a few hours later saying it was fun. He then replied around 10 that night saying sorry he got busy and asked if I was still at the party. I didn't want to reply to his text that late so I waited until the next morning to reply. I told him I didn't stay at the party too late and asked if he had soccer games that day. He never replied to my text and that was the last I heard from him. Didn't wish me a merry Xmas or happy new year or anything. I pretty much steered clear from him at work but then he was in the kitchen at the same time as me last week. I was nice and treated him like all of my coworkers. Anyway, I get a "hey" text from him last night (Saturday ). It has been over a month since we went to lunch. I again didn't reply until the morning because his text was late. I just replied hi back. He asked how my day was going and about my weekend. Then asked if I could go to get drinks this week. I didn't reply right away, but only about 15 minutes went by and he sent a "still there" text. That kind of stuff annoys me especially since he dropped off the face of the earth. I told him my boys had practice this week and I couldn't go and said maybe another time. He said ok. Then about 15 minutes later he sent another still there text. What are your thoughts? Is he already showing his colors after one lunch date? I'm honest not impressed with him at this point. I almost feel like he is a game player. Thank you so much for all you do for us here :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 2, 1:12 AM,
"What are your thoughts? Is he already showing his colors after one lunch date?"

Definitely - there's a pattern developing here, not to mention he's coming across as rather clingy and insecure.

Lunch, late night texting, then a disappearance after you didn't chase him down or permit him to preoccupy your time while you were out for the evening. Then a reappearance with the proverbial late night lame "hey" text, with him practically demanding the ability to preoccupy you by expecting you to hang on and make yourself available to him 15 minutes later. Then when you do respond that you can't make it, he acknowledges that and then proceeds with practically demanding once again that you make yourself available to him and permit him to preoccupy you. . .when meanwhile, this guy has absolutely nothing to say.

That behavior is signaling that this man expects you to "jump" on his communications and chase him down. And when you don't do that, he toys with you by almost teasing you into doing it with the "still there" texts. And I bet you if you DID respond. . .he'd disappear, not respond to you, and leave you hanging. It's a little bit of control, it's a little bit of insecurity, and it's a little bit of game playing.

Who asks someone if they're still there when they have absolutely nothing to say? This man is behaving as if he's incredibly insecure. Insecure men are needy - they need a lot of attention, particularly female attention, to feel good about themselves and generally, they don't make for good boyfriends, lovers or husbands. . .because their insecurities cause them to behave in ways that are self-defeating and dating them if flat out exhausting and draining and unenjoyable.

I'd steer clear of this one - his behavior is signaling that something's off about him and it feels as if he's attempting these things because he's assuming YOU are insecure and that this crap will work on you and begin to make you wonder, start to cause you anxiety - and trigger you into chasing him down. . .to which I bet he'd actually start swatting you away and disappearing then. This could be about insecurity, ego, and issues of control - and have nothing to do with actually dating. I wouldn't waste another ounce of time on him romantically.

Anonymous said...

Lol thanks, Mirror! You are so right. He really did have nothing to say after that "still there" text. He did something else after I first met him, but before we went to lunch. I was waiting downstairs in my building to go to lunch with another coworker. He walked by me and we both said hello to each other. Later that day I saw him and he said "oh, I didn't recognize you earlier." I was thinking to myself yeah right. I think it was one of those negs. I agree to let this one go and even our conversation at the one lunch date was a bit odd. Thanks to you and your blog and all the other women here and their stories for making me a stronger person and value myself more and also see right through the little games some of these guys can play! On to the next lol

chk61 said...

@Gem50 - Ha! Good story. Slim pickins' out there but hope springs eternal!

So, good ole Mr. No Show peeked at my profile again. WTH? I am considering the slight possibility that his email went to my spam folder and when I got home late that night - now 2 weeks ago - I accidentally deleted it. Yet none of his other emails went to my spam folder. AND if he *really* wanted to contact me, he'd try again to make sure his email went through (I did this with him once, when an email did not show up in my "Sent" folder). Strange behavior for a 53 year old man who (reportedly, per the interwebs) went to a prominent law school.

This weekend I'm trying something new: a meet-up group. This is way out of my comfort zone but it's close by, and involves wine tasting at a member's condo. It's sort of an all ages, mish-mash of people thrown together, but by perusing the list there appeared to be about 5 or 6 single age-appropriate men, out of a total of 40, in attendance. I have met at least two of the other people who are going. I've been a bit of a hermit lately with the mounds of snow in my city so despite MORE of the white stuff coming, I'm going to make the effort to walk there (probably about a mile).

In other news, over 2 months have passed and no contact from the D.M. I still think about him but I been steadfastly staying silent and my muscle in that department has gotten quite strong. Oh yeah, and he's back online but I blocked him from being able to see my stealth profile. ;-)

Lottie said...

Hi, Chk61, I joined a local meetup group too, mid last year. I went to a few events and It was quite good fun. A bit nerve wracking meeting complete strangers, I must admit. I’m not the most vocal person in a group and a little shy, so it was a big step for me.

What's more surprising is that this group has now sort of sub divided. We now have a females only group going on and kind of just have girls only nights out.

I don't know all of them, but we now have a whatsapp group for just the girls. In fact I just came back tonight from meeting one of them for drinks. We shared our dating stories :). Next week on Valentines day we have arranged to go and see a movie and then dinner after. I am guessing they must be all single. But it's nice to meet like minded single gals who are all local. I wasn't expecting that when i joined!

Your resolve to remain silent seems to be growing stronger. That muscle will soon been as tough as iron.!

Best of luck with it all.

Lottie x

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,
I hope all is well with you :)

A little while ago I asked you what I could possibly tell the DM if he would come ask me again if I will have sex with him again

("What do I tell him, Mirror, if he asks me again if we'll ever have sex again?"

Respond with, "If you learn what I need as a woman and how to impress me and seduce me as one, then yea we'll have sex again." ;-) --- January 7th 2015)

So he asked me and I responded with what you suggested, because I think this is the best and most brilliant reply ever. I made sure to memorize it!

You know what his reply was? OK make sure you're seated lol......................
He replied with (this was in an email): "I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT LEARNING SO IT WILL PROBABLY STAY THE WAY IT IS ;-("

And this comes from the man who tells me he loves me veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery much yet disappears for months whenever he feels like ignoring me. No surprise there!

Imo, his reply is absolutely ridiculous because if he'd wanted to, of course he could learn... But he doesn't to learn what a woman (I) needs , doesn't want to impress me. I really don't know what to say to that. Of course I always knew that he wouldn't make the effort to learn but still.........

He is acting now as if his IQ (or EQ) is too low or something, as an excuse.

But like I said , what you suggested is brilliant and the best reply ever, so I'm glad I'm told him that.

Thanks again!!!
Mary xx

Anonymous said...

@ feeling sad
Dear Mirror,
Thank you for all of the advice these past two and a half years. I took a few days to think about everything... Told him I didn't want to have any further relations until I saw a doctor first. He said ok. Later that week, I was having symptoms of a UTI and an urgent care confirmed that. It was the second one in two months and I got concerned. I asked him by text if I could come over and talk about things. He said something to the effect,"Can't this wait until saturday until we are both off work?" (It was Tues.)

I was hurt and angry at his lack of caring and concern and told him (by text) I was concerned about "being infected" but if he didn't give a **** never mind. He asked me by text -- what I was concerned about and I told him I was "not having this conversation by text". He then relented and said, "Fine, come over". I just told him to forget it.. Nothing... I then responded that perhaps the guy (living two doors down from my condo) would like to hear about it. (He's always implying that he has a thing for me.) Nothing...

I decided this was just juvenile and then I called him. I told him I didn't really mean what I had just said/texted except he was being so callous, I felt, with how I was feeling right now... and I wanted to bite back at him, but I didn't mean it, of course. I had wanted to come over and talk face to face. I didn't get the response at all what I expected. He became defensive when I mentioned that I thought I could have something and I was concerned. "Oh, this is just silly... Just go get tested. You're just scaring yourself, now". I told him that he had not taken his medicine regularly (he had a full bottle dated august 2014) and that concerned me -- and why didn't he protect me? " I know how to take my medicine", he barked back. "I've had this for 20 years". That set me off and I can't remember what happened after that -- except I ended up telling him not to ever, ever contact me again and I hung up.

Then I texted him how I thought that a loving conversation should have gone -- but I heard " nothing from you that was remotely kind or compassionate for what I am going through right now. Instead I hear defensive excuses which signal to me a big red flag". And I ended with, "I actually hate you this very moment".

He returned my key and some things the following day on my porch with a note that said " I am very sorry for the way things ended between us. I hope you can one day forgive me".

Wow... I just don't even know now to begin to process all of it. And I'm left wondering if I have something incurable...
Ya know, I came here devastated because of a disappearing man. Got better. Recovered. Started dating again.... Thought I'd found the one and would have a happy ending to tell everyone. If I can just pass on ... We still don't ever know, I guess. The moral is .. Guard your heart, trust your instincts I suppose.
* Sigh, tears*

Anonymous said...

Mary xx
Sorry, but can't you see he just the easy way? Every man knows how to court and seduce a woman, he is just not that into you, sorry girl. Stop waste your precious time on this fool, block his number and get to meet another men. Tell him ain't nobody got time for this s**t, for real.

Anonymous said...

@ sign and tears

Babe ur message made my heart ache. Just imagining how u must feel. But 1st thing 1st..... get tested and educated about it "IF" u have something. Do whats best 4 u. Its no time to be worried about him. Put urself 1st. no matter what the outcome may be forgive. Yep, i said it FORGIVE him and move on with ur life babe.

I can go on and on about he should have told u, but i can also say u should have got him tested b4 being intimate. i am not going there bc guess what we cant turn back time. So live in the NOW.

u dont have to call him, text him, or make any contact to forgive him either. Forgiveness comes from within. ur not forgiving for him ur forgiving so u can move on and let that hurt go. So u can be free to take care of U!

God bless u babe. I am praying 4 u. That God will wipe every tear from ur eyes. ur gonna make it! ;*)

Anonymous said...

Just a quick ironic update as I haven't posted in quite a while. I've written to you quite a few time over the past few years regarding my DM who was also a LDM (long distance man). During that time I also had a FWB but my heart was concentrated on DM. I unknowingly treated FWB exactly how you instruct in your teachings, giving him time yet never chasing him or initiating contact. Letting him take the lead and barely giving him the time of day really. Sheesh! Needless to say he was smitten while I was oblivious to this fact as I fretted over DM. Anyway, the light bulb in my brain/heart finally lit up in early January and I realized that I had the love of my life right in front of me the entire time. I don't even think about DM anymore and can't even imagine what I ever saw in him as my sweet man (who's a Taurus by the way) is so good to me and our relationship has deepened into a love I could never imagine. Thanks for all your good teachings and positive advice MOA. I still read the posts and honestly feel that your page changed everything about the way I think about men, relationships and communication in the most positive way. No matter what happens in my life I will always use your principles. I feel like a much stronger woman and am happier than I've ever been. I feel empowered yet completely relaxed. Thank you again MOA! Ladies, keep on keeping on. Peace & Light.

Astrid

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

you might remember my story with the disappeared trainer. I have an update. He hasn´t reappeared (fortunately). I wouldn´t be writing this if it weren´t for you, Mirror, and also the ladies who wrote here to support me and help open my eyes, because I would like to show you how right all of you were in your opinions about him.

Well, recently I routinely looked at an online local newspaper. As usual, I scanned the news headlines and incidentally noticed the list of bloggers who contribute there. One of the surnames was identical with the trainer´s . Believe me or not, I had almost completely forgotten about the trainer but when I saw this name I clicked on it out of curiosity. Lo and behold, it turns out this blogger is the trainer´s ex-wife. She has a photo there and has been writing for quite a few years. So I read some of her blogs - she mentions her husband (in later blogs her ex-), their children. her years as a trainer and judge, their family life, activities, even family conversations, her feelings, everything in quite a lot of detail. Quite bizarre in my opinion. I am a private person and I can´t imagine being so open about my family relationships in public. I only read a few articles but I understood the whole family atmosphere very quickly. Basically all of them lived in front of public eyes and behind closed doors their life was not very sincereor fulfilling . And she summed up their broken marriage with a sentence: "If we hadn´t got married out of neediness but out of love, our marriage might have lasted".

I must say I felt very strange when I came across her blogs and I am certain that I will never return to them. Surreal, isn´t it? How often does it happen that you find about somebody from his ex-wife´s blogs on the internet? However, I am grateful for this opportunity because I now know that I wouldn´t be able to function with a man like him (at least judging by the information in the blogs). And what is quite repulsive - he obviously lied to me and presented a lot of his wife´s thoughts and observations as his own when we were conversing, presumably in an effort to impress me, which he actually managed to do (he is over 50!). Reading the blogs was really sobering experience for me.

I still believe that it is possible to meet a decent, intelligent man interested in a real relationship online. However, my approach has changed. I don´t expect anything anymore and if I meet somebody who is worth something, I will be pleasantly surprised. And my message to all the ladies mourning over a disappeared man: Please listen to Mirror´s opinion and be glad he disappeared. If he was a decent person, he wouldn´t have disappeared in the first place. Thanks to the trainer´s ex-wife I finally absorbed this simple truth. The trainer isn´t a particularly good man, fullstop.

Have a nice weekend,
Hopeful:-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
Thanks for sharing your newly found revelation. In particular, I'd like to stress his ex-wife's summation of their marriage because it's VERY telling, and it's also something that I attempt to stress here regularly - and that is the topic of "need" - and how when you let fear and insecurity and neediness steer the wheel in your life. . .it will NEVER lead you to your happiness:

"If we hadn´t got married out of neediness but out of love, our marriage might have lasted".

And that applies to EVERY area in life, not just relationships. It applies to decisions, careers, all types of relationships - it applies everywhere.

She realized that what created her connection to him wasn't love, but rather, neediness and insecurity - and most likely, a "fear" of being alone. And because those negative emotions are what she permitted to aid her in her decision making process. . .she ended up on the wrong track, and with the WRONG man.

Ladies, if you're tolerating poor treatment, or abusive treatment, or "settling" or playing second best - or continuing to date a man that you're unsure of because you feel bad about yourself, don't think you can do any better, or you simply fear you'll end up along. . .leave. Just leave now - before you make one of the biggest mistakes of your entire life.

Because believe me when I tell you - mistakes like that will cost you dearly.

The price to pay is HIGH, and it will roll down hill and others will be affected by it as well. If you tolerate poor treatment from a man, someday your children with that man will be forced to tolerate the same. If you choose a man that is selfish and you have children with him, don't be surprised when, if you split, he wipes his hands clean of not only you - but his children as well.

If he displays that he's either not willing, or not a good provider early on (i.e. refusing to pay for dates), then guess what? Don't be surprised when, after you marrying him, he's unemployed and playing video games on your sofa all day long while you're working 3 jobs to keep the household afloat.

If he hits you or verbally and emotionally abuses you, don't be surprised when one day, your children experience the same from him.

If he was cold and unloving and feared intimacy when you dated him, don't be surprised when, after you marry him, that he's emotionally unavailable, doesn't recognize birthdays, anniversaries, etc. and never speaks or opens up to you and truly lets you "in."

If he's a mama's boy and lets or relies on her to make all his decisions in life, don't be surprised when, after you marry him, that she's a constant stress point in your relationship - and with her now grandchildren from your union.

If, when you dated him, your relationship was on again, off again - and he disappeared a few times and then returned - don't be surprised when, after you marry him, you're up 3 nights a week at 2AM wondering where the hell he's at and who he's with and why he isn't coming home to you. Don't be surprised when he cheats on you and then leaves you for the new next best thing to come along and grab his attention.

My point here is - there are ALWAYS warning signs and red flags.

Yes, none of us are perfect and there are flaws to be overlooked. But when it comes to these types of flaws - they are no small things. They are not to be dismissed and the benefit of doubt is not to be granted when it involves these types of things - they are not to be overlooked. And if you hang on out of fear, insecurity, etc. - it won't pay off, it'll only get worse and the ramifications will only be larger.

Lottie said...

Hi Hopeful,

I'm really glad you found that blog. I don't believe it was a coincidence. Not many people get a chance to find out about someone until after they have gone and they are left puzzled with no closure. That is quite extraordinary.

Ms Mirror - those are wise words.
"and how when you let fear and insecurity and neediness steer the wheel in your life. . .it will NEVER lead you to your happiness:

And that applies to EVERY area in life, not just relationships. It applies to decisions, careers, all types of relationships - it applies everywhere.

Ms Mirror, I still don't understand why I have not met someone? Maybe it's fear of some sort. I just don't know. People are surprised when they find out I am still single...and I have no explanation to give them. I wonder about paths and destinies....how much control do we really have?

I am sorry, but I am having one of those days.

Lottie x

Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,
That's quite a find you came upon. Although finding and reading her blog may feel unreal or freakish, it's a wonderful gift dear. Lucky you! :)

@ Ms. Mirror,
Great reminder. Your advice reminds me of a Maya Angelo quote, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

Queen said...

Hey Mirror of Aphrodite
Thank you so much for your well organized articles. They have been helpful but I feel like I am missing something or may be doing a step wrong.

Im trying to reverse my previous actions. I was in fact using this Scorpio man as a therapist , I had sex early, I definitely started going crazy on him & also chased him. 
He has explained to me that he doesn't like me the way he used to , he cares about me & that I need to stop being emotional or I will lose him as a friend . He also told me , which stuck out to me is that he wouldn't post anything on social media or say something that would trigger me because he knows how I get . (not trying to get me jealous ) 

I understood where he was coming from. I sent him screenshots of something I found & felt I was being vulnerable by admitting where I was messing up at. He ignored my message . 
That's when I found your article !
He ignored me for 2 days ( but liked my artwork on instagram ) 

I ignored him in return for 3 days . While I ignored him I noticed he kept posting ( usually he doesn't post so many times in one day ) he also wrote a status at 4am saying that "he's trying to keep it PG but look at the time " 
I felt that status was to get me jealous & evoke emotions out of me . 
Reason being is he only would write status' regarding his art . Plus the status has been deleted .

When I wrote him after the 3 days he was on me .
I wrote a positive status , he even comment on it saying "us or them , & words of encouragement for me " 
But now he's drifting again. He will write me something that's personal that he's dealing with . More so updating me on a personal family situation then stop talking . When he did this last time I asked was he alright .. He said he was fine & that he was going to smoke . I said okay love & put a kiss emoji ( I think this is where I messed up ) then he didn't write me until a day later. So I ignored him back and he wrote me again briefly.
We didn't speak for 2 days .

I ended up writing him & asking a random question about his artwork but it was a prelude to let him know I was having pregnancy symptoms & my body was acting different. I would take a test on Wednesday & I was just telling him because holding it in wasn't helping me . 
It took him an hour to reply & he said " oh .. I don't know know .. U should get that checked out " .. I said okay . He didn't open the okay message but obviously he got it . I told him this 2 days ago.

Today he posted a picture of a squirrel with his hands up  saying " please let me get a nut today " & he put in the caption that he's just a squirrel & this a corn tree of life . 
Obviously back in the day I would have said something about that pic & its making me more confused especially after I told him I may be pregnant he puts a picture like that . 

I'm confused if he's still testing me . I haven't been reacting how I usually would with my emotions & have been more positive but it's like he's drifting more
-Virgo 

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I wish I stumbled on this site before. could have saved myself a lot of heart ache. my story is similar to most women on this site. Man pursues, everything going well then I innocently pursue thinking I was being proactive. Then he begins to withdraw. I quickly realize this and begin no contact. but can't resist saying "hi I hope you are well" on Facebook. I get a response but he sounds irritated and pressured. So I decide to unfriend and block him on fb to ensure I stick to the no contact. Now a friend tells me that was too aggressive a move which tells him to never contact me. I just wanted to give him space. Plus I did not want him to see my posts. I felt suffocated to see him online and not being able to talk yo each other. I felt I would be better off not seeing his fb activities. Did I blow it? He seems like a good guy but emotionally sensitive. He is divorced.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lottie,
"Ms Mirror, I still don't understand why I have not met someone? Maybe it's fear of some sort. I just don't know."

Well, you are meeting people dear, and I believe, if I remember correctly, that recently - you actually met a very nice man who treated you very well and was emotionally mature. . .but you declined to move forward with him in an effort to get to know him a bit better, and give him a chance to win you over.

And I remember when I read that story, one of the first things I thought of was a fear of sorts, because of the very brief time involved before you made that decision. In a way, it reminded me of a "flight or fight" response a bit. Meaning, upon the realization that this man was for real, was genuinely interested, was treating you well and was emotionally mature and serious about you. . .an impulsive "flight or fight" response kicked in.

I think you may have reached a point with him early on where you realized, "This is real. It is really happening. And in my mind, I believe I should be swept off my feet right now, but instead, I'm not and I'm actually confused about my own feelings and response to this. So I'm either going to have to flee from this, or I'm going to have to stay and "fight" my way through these confused feelings I'm having." And then the decision to "flee" was ultimately made.

And it's a funny thing because, I cannot tell you how many couples who have been together long term - the relationship began with the woman feeling this way. I've asked a lot of couples about their first few months together and how they've met and a lot of those stories begin with the woman saying something like, "Well, at first, I'll admit - I wasn't very attracted to him and honestly, I kinda' blew him off. But he persisted and he treated me well and eventually. . .he grew on me, won me over, and I came to love him very, very much."

In those situations, the women didn't flat out tell the man she wasn't going to see him again, but they also didn't jump for the man, yet they continued to give him the opportunity to impress. And what happens in those situations I believe is - once the women worked through a bit of confusion and some mixed emotions of their own and continued to give the guy a chance. . .they came to love him - because of how much they FELT loved BY him. And once a women feels loved, desired, admired, appreciated, and safe and secure - it can create deep feelings for the man in return.

But that is a process that needs plenty of time to unfold. It doesn't happen overnight. No one goes through all those feelings in a few dates. And no one will work through all those feelings in a few days. You have to really get to know a person first and you have to hang on through the peaks and valleys to reach the serene plateau at the top.

I'm not sure if any of this makes sense or can help you - but it is what sprang to mind as food for thought for you when you brought up the question of why you haven't met anyone. You HAVE met someone dear. . .you just passed them over is all, because you were expecting what most people expect which is this reeling feeling that lifts you off your feet.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

When in reality, that feeling is only surface sexual attraction - a brief fleeting infatuation type feeling that generally only comes when a strong sexual attraction is present - and the real kicker is that a lot of times, when the right one comes along. . .that is not the reaction that is felt.
A lot of times the reaction that is felt when the right one finally does come along - is fear - because a lot of women deep down inside struggle with feeling worthy of receiving that type of attention and care, so rather than embrace it to see where it takes them. . .they can tend to flee from it instead, running right back into the situations that they used to and more comfortable with - which a lot of times can be. . .chasing a moron around and jumping through hoops to get a morsel of his attention. Because that's what feels normal, and that's what they're used to, so it feels comfortable and the sexual attraction is confused for true feeling. The opposite end of that spectrum - meeting a nice guy who doesn't make you "perform" for his attention - feels very uncomfortable, it is not what they're generally used to, they can't relax into it, have trouble accepting it, and sometimes have an impulsive reaction to flee from it.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Virgo,
You have to let go dear. Cease contacting him, cease attempting to keep the relationship alive, and cease attempting to control the situation. Instead, accept the reality that lay before you - which is that this didn't work and isn't working, regardless of the reason why, and that nothing you do or say can change that - because what's done is done.

There's never a second chance to make a first impression, which is why the first few dates and interactions are so very important. And it's a lot easier to start over with a clean slate elsewhere, than it is to attempt to revisit the past and bandage it loosely together.

If it were me, I would cease contacting this man altogether - and I would also IGNORE some of HIS communications to me. Only something severe and drastic may possibly change his perception of you. That's not a guarantee that that will work, but only a complete 180 degree turn will catch his attention at this point and set him on a course of pursuing YOU, instead of it being the other way around with you pursuing him.

I'd also cease attempting to read into social media posts. Social media isn't to be taken seriously. It's mainly for entertainment purposes and I really don't buy into the fact that it's even useful for communication purposes because - 1) everything that happens on social media is a joke and can't be taken seriously and 2) it's absolutely useless as a communication tool. . .because anyone who truly wants to communicate with you in a SERIOUS fashion and not in a casual fashion (entertaining, joking or jovial) -- would just pick up the phone and call you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 15, 7:29 AM,
". . .can't resist saying "hi I hope you are well" on Facebook. I get a response but he sounds irritated and pressured. So I decide to unfriend and block him on fb to ensure I stick to the no contact."

Well, instead of reacting emotionally and projecting your need to ensure sticking to no contact onto him (by unfriending him) - in the future, don't react and instead, attempt self-discipline and work on building coping skills in doing so.

And here's what I mean by that. When you found that you could not stick to no contact, instead of practicing building coping skills of self-discipline, you projected your inability to stick to no contact onto him, making him deal with your inability to control your reactions by unfriending him. Instead of you having to now practice self-discipline - you've made him deal with that instead by unfriending him.

And if you can't practice no contact and feel you'd reach out, I can understand that and there are instances where I would suggest just unfriending the man. . .if you're done with him once and for all. But if you're not and you want to leave the door open for the future - that has now become much more complicated by the fact that you've unfriended him. Because now, opening the door again would require you to friend him again, and he may not accept it, which means you risk rejection. And if he does accept the friendship, that move of you going to him forces you to explain yourself to him, and it also places you into the lesser power position.

In the future, rather than react, as hard as it may be - the change starts with YOU. Meaning, you have to be responsible for your own behavior, and in order to do that, you have to build coping skills that involve the practice of self-discipline. . .you exhibiting power over your own reactions and building the strength to be disciplined about them. It's not easy, and it does require lots of work. But in the end, it's the right thing to do for yourself because - if you don't practice self-discipline, then what happens the next time in life that you find yourself in a situation that you fear you may not be able to control your behavior? You can't continue to shift that onto others, ya' know? At some point you need to have confidence in yourself knowing that you can control your reactions and behaviors. And once you build that confidence in yourself, it will also build your self-esteem and your actions will begin to align with your wishes and then you will truly be in control of yourself and your future, ya' know?

We've all been there so it's not a big deal, don't beat yourself up for it. My real point here is that once you learn how to practice self-discipline and it becomes a skill for you, a personal asset, it can actually EMPOWER you and your days of confusion and regret will come to an end. Because when we react emotionally nine times out of ten, we regret it later and question ourselves and beat ourselves up for it, which is very unhealthy and undermines our confidence and self-esteem. Instead dear - wield power over your behavior through the practice self-discipline - which will make you proud of yourself and will give you the confidence to know that no matter what life throws at you. . .you can and WILL handle it like a pro ;-)

Queen said...

Thank you for replying back to me !
I like that you pointed out about the 180 degree turn because that's what I have been doing & I know he sees the improvement.
I looked deeper into becoming a better person & understanding the positive qualities a person should have . At the time I was quite negative.
He contacted me yesterday to wish me a happy Valentine's day . I sent him artwork I was doing & he told me I'm doing great while he has been slacking with his artwork.
I find it would be hard to cease contact because we both are artist and have business goals that we are working on together so that we can become self employed.

I hope that with your advice it will help me get him back On top of changing my negative behaviors & letting my control go.
Even tho 5,000 comments no one lived happily ever after . Maybe I will beat the statistic. Lol who knows .
He's a positive guy , and taught me a lot so far .
The take away I got from your article is to slow things down , because guys say things just to see if your interested in them . He is insecure . & I was also so I see how we rushed things .
I honestly think I have a good chance because of the changes I have made . But I don't know how interested he was / still is.

I'm going to keep applying your advice . ( except the cease contact , idk ) lol
-virgo

Anonymous said...

@Gem50, Lottie

Yes, it was really unusual to come across that blog. I couldn´t believe it myself! And it helped me sooo much. I am definitely over this manLOL. And not only am I over him, I am now ready to meet him (because my gut keeps telling me that when the cycling season starts, we will "accidentally" bump into each other on the cycling path) and know exactly how to respond to him if we do.

@Mirror
I must honestly say that I found myself in your response to Lottie. Reading it wasn´t comfortable for me at all, so obviously, it will be my weak point (to be exact, one of my weak points). I have done exactly the same as Lottie did and not only once. The reason you give is really valid although I didn´t realise that when I was in those situations (much younger). I always thought that I knew for sure (thanks to my intuition) that no relationship would develop on my side and I didn´t want to give the men any false hopes or string them along. I simply gave a chance only to men I liked from the very start. Now after reading your answer to Lottie I am not so sure I was right. And I have never met any of those men since then so unfortunately, I can´t look objectively at the experience. And about the sexual attraction - Lottie, look at my experience with the trainer - there was a lot of sexual attraction (sparkles were flying like crazyLOL) which I somehow confused for an overall attraction and on his side there was just some sexual needeness if that at all! Most probably he only needed an ego massage. So maybe as Mirror writes, it would be wiser to approach new men a bit more rationally and pragmatically. As for me, I definitely jump to conclusions about men too fast (sigh). Well, there is still a lot to learn...

Have a nice weekend:-),
Hopeful
@Mirror

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,
Thanks so much for the swift and honest response. I despair to know that my actions, and possibly my scorpio nature may have cost me the a good chance at a relationship. Anyhow, I must learn my lesson!
To give you a full picture, here is a bit of background. This man dissapeared on me 14 years ago. That was back in our late twenties. He chased and I resisted for a while. When I developed interest, he dissapeared and went abroad. I also have since pursued my career and went to work abroad (in a different country) since 2000. He later resurfaced by Email and has been in touch once in a while. Now we are both in our fourties and have children from previous relationships. He renewed his interest recently (mid 2014) and we became FB friends. He is claiming that he wants to return home and that he is looking to settle down, and has always loved me. So we planned to meet in December when we both return home to discuss further. When we met he laid his plan all out and pressed me for a commitment, which I accepted as it looked sound and I felt he was a gentleman. We had sex on the second date (I know!) and planned to meet again to hash out a strategy for getting the relationship to work before we both depart to our respective work countries two weeks later. I never saw him again. From there, a series of excuses came up, ultimately culminating with his illness from food poisoning. Although we were communicating, I knew he was avoiding me. In January when he had returned to his life abroad, he sent me an FB message that he was still sick but wanted to "assure me that the foundation we laid back in December would be stronger" . I replied with a affectionate message also wishing him quick recovery, then everything went quiet. I decided to apply NC. Two weeks later I broke NC and decided to contact him out of care, to check if he had recovered with the " Hi I hope you are well" message on FB. His response a couple of hours later was " I am well. I am in the process of writting you a detailed Email and will be done before I leave work". That Email never came. 24 hours later, I cut him off FB. He had lied to me several times before.
1. I felt that I did not deserve this behaviour from a man who had just pressed me into a corner for a commitment.
2. Secondly, I did not feel that FB texts was the appropriate way for a man I am in a serious relationship with to communicate with me, when he has my Telephone number and Email address (we had even talked about having better medium of communication outside not FB).
3. Thirdly, I felt dissapointed at his actions throughout December (excuses and avoiding me earlier) that did not match the vision he had laid out to me.
The whole thing felt off anyway.
So in view of this, and your clear guidance above, the scorpio in me has no intentions to ever re-friend him on FB or to explain myself to him. I will treat this as a break up at the early stages of a relationship. If he wants to get back together, he has my Telephone number and Email. And we will go from there. If he doesn't, I will survive, and on a much wiser level. For now, NC continues.
Lots of love!!

Anonymous said...

Thank you anonymous for your kind words and Mirror for letting me vent here. I did forgive him and I wrote an email telling him that I do forgive him; but forgiveness starts with doing the next right thing: He has a responsibility to disclose to others that he has a STD-- especially when it was about 14 dates, 2 1/2 months into our relationship (before relations) and he told me that he loved me before, as well. (Yep, mirror was right-- it takes about 2 months before the "man starts falling in love".) In other words, there were plenty of dinners, intimate conversations and quiet, alone time that he could of disclosed this information and he didn't. I even asked beforehand, "Is there anything that we should tell one another?" Short of us both going to the doctor together, I don't know what else I could have done...

Even MOA commented at the first month... "I like where this is going. He's worth further exploration here for sure and he seems emotionally mature: Gesus . . could we have a gentlemen here, ladies, LOL??!!" Good luck, I hope he's a keeper ;-)
February 12, 2013

Well, I thought so too... Things started to unravel at the "6 -month bump" in the relationship. Then, I came back here and wrote to Mirror with my concerns. MOA commented. "Well dear, this is why you don't base your decisions about a man on his WORDS - you observe his actions. And when a man's actions don't line up with his words - it's a big red flag.... Does he make you happy, or does he mainly cause you anxiety, worry and despair? Is this a man that can fulfill your needs? Is he a man that's even WILLING to focus on fulfilling someone else's needs besides his own?" -July 2013

Ahh, nostalgia... It's healing. I see my mistake of staying wa-aay too long (1.5 years too long, in fact) in the relationship. I don't know if there was anything else I could have done, except get out of the relationship sooner, obviously. I definitely should have... But then It would have not been revealed to me about the STD. And if I did happen to get it later down the road (no signs as yet, thank goodness), I would have always wondered, "Now where did this come from? Could it have been lying dormant from a long ago past love?" I would have never suspected him -- really, he was that good at pretending to have the utmost integrity. I will say, he doesn't appear to be a cheater, only selfish and doesn't apparently disclose pertinent information, which could have ended up being quite devastating, just as well, down the road, if I would have married him. (I was so concerned about a guy being faithful in the sexual sense, that I put blinders on in the other areas.)

I gave a lot of thought to what MOA posted the other day: "...when you brought up the question of why you haven't met anyone. You HAVE met someone dear. . .you just passed them over is all, because you were expecting what most people expect which is this reeling feeling that lifts you off your feet..."

That is the feeling I got with this past relationship. And although, it was initially 'good', it didn't take long for it to unravel. (About 6 mos). There are some men I dated (when we had a break up this summer for about 2 mos.) that I passed over because I could not get that same feeling. Really nice, decent men; so I ran back to "Mr. Mediocre", at his first text of him missing me. I've heard Mirror say this before: "...and the real kicker is that a lot of times, when the right one comes along.. .that is not the reaction that is felt and we sometimes have an impulsive reaction to flee from it." So, I'm revisiting that message from Mirror, letting it sink into my soul, as I start to heal... Thanks all.@ feeling sad ... To brighter tomorrow's

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Feeling Sad,
Don't beat yourself up over this dear. You invested the time to get to know him, he treated you well from what you could tell along the way, but eventually it didn't work out and as it turns out, he betrayed your trust. It happens - no one is immune to it - and no one can predict it. Which is why investing the time to truly get to know someone is so very important. And just because you're investing the time doesn't mean it will work out in the end - but it does mean that you're receiving an "education" about the individual along the way.

Things can take a turn in a different direction at the drop of a hat in life. That's just the way it is and we can't avoid it or control it. What's really the important part is that, when things do begin to reveal themselves or red flags pop up along the way and/or people words and actions don't line up. . .that you're wise enough to make the right decision for yourself, which is sometimes a very hard decision. That's where the "work" comes in. It's not easy to do the right things for ourselves, especially where our emotions are concerned. But when you do, when you're able to make those hard decisions in life that are best for you based on the information you've gathered - then you're on the right track, and you're strong enough to take care of yourself properly.

So the positive in this situation is that you now know you can take care of yourself properly - make the hard decisions that are best for yourself - and do the work of walking away if and when necessary. I know that doesn't sound like much and may seem like a "no brainer" to a lot of folks here. . .but the reality is that it's very difficult for many people to do that. And once you've conquered that, and you know that you're one of the people strong enough to walk away and make good decisions for yourself. . .you're on the right track and those wise decisions will start to guide you to your true destiny ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Those that are regular readers here have most likely heard me remind women time and again of how crucial it is to be aware of how our actions towards men, as women, can being erroneously perceived, or "overly" perceived by men.

And by that, I'm referring to things like how initiating a simple phone call or text can be perceived as "pursuit" by them - when you really just intended to say hello. Or how asking them where you stand can be perceived as "Run! She's talking marriage already!" Or that simply saying hello or making eye contact and smiling at a man is generally all that's need to catch their attention to draw them towards you (rather than throwing yourself at them).

And you've probably also heard me explain that the reasons for those responses are biological - and deeply ingrained in DNA - and also happen to be an area where men and women experience very different interpretations of the same event. An event where you're simply saying hello - and he's hearing wedding bell alarms sounding and is about to turn tail and run in the other direction. . .all because a few texts or phone calls were initiated by you.

I've come across this piece, which is a good read into the subject. A Nature (biological) versus Nurture (environmental) study was conducted on the topic in an attempt to see if this phenomenon was truly biological - or possibly environmental and dependent on culture, country, societal, etc.

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-17528/this-is-why-men-always-think-women-are-flirting-with-them.html

No real surprise to me that - Nature (biological) seems to be the culprit.

So once again gals. . .before you hit "send" or pick up that phone to say hello or see how his day's going - be VERY, VERY mindful of how HE will interpret your actions - because the inescapable truth is that men and women ARE very different creatures - and your simple gesture of kindness could be misinterpreted by the object of your affection as some seriously heavy pursuit.

On the flip side of that, when out in public, be very careful who you're smiling at kindly because that too could also be miscontrued as a "green light" and we don't want all the local "players" following you home like the Pied Piper LOL.

And lastly, when you're asking yourself "what should I do" to capture a man's attention, instead of taking an action of some sort. . .the reality is that all you need to do is smile, be warm, be approachable and inviting in your demaeanor, and make eye contact. It's not necessary to give chase and throw yourself at him - all it takes is a smile and that's really the only green light he needs to register "Okay, it's on!" in his head LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

You're a smart & tough cookie, MOA! I've been reading your articles and all the comments for quite some time now, very interesting and helpful indeed (thank you ;) I just read your comments pertaining to how to provide a man with the "green light" without chasing/pursuing him and also read some of your advice regarding "play hard to get." Could you please share additional tips on how to intertwine both?

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror/Hopeful,

Many Thanks for your responses. Ms Mirror I quite agree with your words. It was actually my approach this time around.

In fact, before I took to internet dating at the end of last year, I made a conscious decision to ‘reformat’ the way I think. . I knew instant chemistry/fireworks was not going to happen and in fact if it did and I was swept off my feet, it would probably involve danger. I did not want that to happen again.

Hopeful, like yourself, I too used to know very very early on as to whether I was going to like a guy and did not really take things beyond that if I did not like him instantly, ……because yes, I did not want to lead a guy on. It was all too black and white for me.

But I knew this time I would need to break through those barriers.

When I dated this chap, he physically wasn’t the type I go for. I normally go for guys that are taller than me, but he was my height

But I don’t think that was too important. Like I mentioned he treated me well and that was all that mattered. I just think I felt a bit rushed. He made me feel uncomfortable. He really wanted to go to a club and I must admit I really did not want to go to a place that was dark and had loud music and in a very upmarket place where I know there would be very scantily clad females. I am all for having fun, but that was not my thing so early on.

As a bit of a follow up – a few weeks ago I did send him a message to see how he was doing. He was on my mind. I did think that maybe I was a bit hasty – I had previously mentioned that I would have like to have gone to visit him in the city he lived, but we never got a round to it.

Anyhow, he mentioned he was coming to my neck of the woods and that it would be nice to join him. So I said great. Sunday afternoon we could meet for drinks or lunch. He said we had already done that and that he was coming in late on Saturday night and that I was more than welcome to join him at a club.

I said politely, thanks but no thanks again. Then he said I hope I find someone that I can take on new experiences without anxiety.

I can’t help the way I feel. It takes time for me to like someone and trust them I won’t be rushed and certainly will not do anything that makes me feel uncomfortable. Is that wrong?

It’s a learning experience for me right now, I don’t really have much to go on. There is no manual. I am still dating and finding out more about what I like and I suppose what I don’t

There is one guy, we have been out a few times and you know it’s a simple thing, but he actually listens to when I talk and shows real attention.
I really like that. It’s early days and nothing has materialized but it really registered for me.

So on it goes.

Best Wishes, Lottie. x

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, I've been dating this guy for six months. He's a nice and sweet guy. Takes me out on dates and pays for them. However, we never spend more than 4 hours togethe . I'm not sure why but we would go out to dinner then he takes me home. He does not ask me to hangout at his place or anything like that. I've been to his home before. You've mentioned in one of your articles about the guy saying I love you after 5-6 months. He have not say that but talks about "us" and our "kids". When I asked of he feels the same as when we first met he said yes that his feelings haven't changed. I'm not sure what to take of this or how I should feel about his respond. He knows I've been hurt before and maybe he's being careful? What do you think? So far he's a good boyfrien . I mean there are things I don't like about him but it's not a deal breaker. Than you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 22, 3:27 PM,
"Could you please share additional tips on how to intertwine both?"

Most of the pieces on this site share tips that are an intermingling of both. Meaning, the "green lights" are subtle, and therefore, kinda' dance in the realm of playing hard to get because you're not jumping into their lap and giving chase. And once you have their attention, you can't give it ALL to them immediately. Meaning, you can't make yourself available 100% of the time, dropping your own life to make a man's more convenient.

That doesn't mean flat out ignoring a man (unless he's treated you poorly). It simply means that if you've got plans with girlfriends on Saturday night, and he waits until Friday night to ask for a Saturday night date - you don't cancel on your girlfriends and go with him instead. You keep your plans and life in place, and you simply suggest another date night when you are available preferably 3 days later. And I say 3 days later because if you do that, without even saying anything, the man starts to understand that you have your own life, your time is valuable as well, and if he wants to see you, he has to respect that and make plans with you at least 3 days in advance. Handling yourself like that forces a man to respect you, respect your time, think of you in advance, and make you a priority if he'd like to see you.

There are a lot of examples like that but I'm sure you get the idea. The idea is generally just to not to drop your life, roll over and play dead, and hand yourself over to a man completely early on simply because he's showed some interest in you, ya' know? These things are all subtle, but they work on the "unspoken" level. They are part of the 75 - 90% of non-verbal communication that is unspoken between individuals, yet highly understood.

If you carry yourself independently, and respectfully with dignity - then people tend to follow suit and treat you - the way you treat yourself ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 23, 1:43 AM,
"What do you think? So far he's a good boyfriend."

Well if he's been a good boyfriend, then I don't think there's anything to worry about here - although, if this is not making you happy, then you should probably place a timeline in your head of when you will no longer continue to date him if things don't change. I wouldn't share this with him, but I also wouldn't spend another year and half doing this with him if you're not seeing any progress either.

And if you invest, say another 4 months into dating him and there is still no progress, then at that time, I would probably kindly explain to him that I've had a great time, really like him as a person, and enjoy all he's done for me and the time we've spent together - however, this doesn't seem to be progressing after 10 months, so you're going to move on. If he protests, then he will most likely open the topic for discussion at that time and you can see what's holding him back and then make an informed decision for yourself. If he doesn't protest and lets it happen - then you've done the right thing and didn't waste any more additional time.

I wouldn't try to "talk" to him first about it, that rarely goes well and most men take that as nagging and pressuring and shut down to it. But what most men DO understand and listen closely to - is action. So if you skip talking about it first, and instead wait a few months and if nothing's changed, just explain it's not progressing so you're going to move on - he WILL hear that loud and clear. And if he cares, he'll protest and open up on his own at that time about what's really going on - and you will either be able to connect with him, or learn something important you needed to know. . .and then proceed accordingly with your new knowledge to make the decision that's best for you.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA,

Hope you're doing well. I just came here to get your input from online dating when guy ask to send them pics. I mean they already see what I look like from my account, why do they need more? Particularly they want me to send full body pics, and I have 2 already on my page. Idk I just instantly get turned off when a guy asks me to send pics. I just want to know is that normal or am I being a lil too harsh?

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, first time commenter here...going through my on/off disappearing AGAIN and thankfully found your site. Truly a lifesaver, I wish I knew of it long ago. I would love your input on my situation

Met and dated 4 perfect months, out of no where he told me he met someone and was done. I begged (oh, how I wish I didnt, but oh well) he cut me off 100% and it was devastating. After maybe 6 months of no contact, guess who popped back in with a generic text? I responded a couple days later, and we went from there. The past wasn't mentioned, it was like we never stopped talking. Fast forward to another 6 months or so, and I was being needy, annoying and pretty much doing everything I shouldn't. He disappeared again. Will not respond to my attempts. So I'm back in no contact, nearing a month. Do you think there's anything I can do to make him come back? I know I chased him away and just want one more shot, without me sabotaging it. Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 25, 10:25 AM,
"I just instantly get turned off when a guy asks me to send pics. I just want to know is that normal or am I being a lil too harsh?"

I personally feel it's abnormal to constantly request images like that and honestly, I consider it a red flag when a man is going around online or in real life building an image library for himself of women like that - because it's actually a "player" tactic. And it's one that I discuss in this piece here in the section "Insecure Men Are Narcissistic Attention Whores":

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2015/02/insecure-men-dating.html

The point of dating is not to gawk at one another in photos, or gather photos to receive sexual gratification from (because remember ladies - men are VISUAL, they are stimulated sexually - visually) -- the point of dating is to actually speak to one another, spend time with one another and communicate to get to know one another.

These guys who are overly obsessed with "visual" and gathering images like that, their actions are signaling that they're not interested in truly getting to know you and instead -- they are OBJECTIFYING you.

They are looking at these images and viewing you as an "object" for sexual gratification purposes and/or bragging rights, and not as a real human being. They are looking at these images and blowing them up to see sexual parts in better clarity, they are dissecting you and looking for faults, they are showing their friends, they may even be masturbating to them and it doesn't matter if your naked or clothed. Either way, they're looking at you like an object of sorts instead of getting to know you like a real human being.

And if you think I'm wrong ladies - I'll share a little story here (that will most likely make your skin crawl).

A past acquaintance, a female, was a very insecure girl. As a result, she would jump through hoops for men and let herself be used sexually, she would let herself be treated poorly and taken advantage of etc. Anywho, she attends a high school reunion and meets up with an old friend there, a male. He suggests they "hookup" and she agrees. I can't remember if she got a room or he had a room, but somehow, he directs her to go to this hotel room. She goes, and inside is a bag. She opens the bag, and there's a sex toy in it.

Only God knows why she stayed, but anyway, this guy shows up and they proceed with the hookup. Trouble is, he can't complete the act. Sooooo. . . .he whips out his phone (see where I'm going with this??)

Now, you're probably assuming he pulled up previously gathered images of women to stare at on his phone so he could complete the act. Well. . .make sure you're sitting down, ladies.

He DID pull up images of a woman -- his SISTER -- and he masturbated in front of this female acquaintance to his sisters image on his cell phone (and she wasn't nude in it).

So there you go. That gives you a peek into just a little bit of what these men who collect images are actually doing with them.

Men who act like that and are constantly requesting images (even after they've already received or seen a few on your profile). . .I would NOT accommodate them in that request, nor would I bother continuing to speak to them either because they're already indicating that they're most likely going to "objectify" you in some way, rather than treat you respectfully.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 25, 2:12 PM,
"Do you think there's anything I can do to make him come back?"

Well, the reality is that we can't make people love us or want to be in a relationship with us. We can't control others, we can only control our reaction to them.

And rather than focus on getting him back, might I suggest focusing on the reality? Because I think if you do that, you'll feel better and maybe even think a bit differently about this and about him. The reality is that:

1) He's disappeared - twice.
2) The first time, he left you for someone else.
3) There seems to be a 4 - 6 month pattern playing out in his dating life.
4) His behavior is indicating that he may not be ready or actually even want a committed relationship.
5) You, yourself may not be quite ready for a truly committed relationship.

Notice this pattern "Met and dated 4 perfect months, out of no where he told me he met someone and was done. . . maybe 6 months of no contact, guess who popped back in with a generic text. . .Fast forward to another 6 months or so. . .He disappeared again." Now as much as you're blaming yourself here for what took place, what about his brief fling with the other individual that only lasted the same EXACT amount of time?

Meaning, yes your behavior may have had something to do with it, but the "big picture" here is also signaling that this guy possibly can't last with anyone longer than 6 months - whether it's you or not. And those types who have repetitive patterns like that are what I like to call "relationship jumpers." They're not truly ready for a committed relationship, they consider a brief fling of 4-6 months a "relationship" when in reality it's only a fling, and right around the time it's about to get "real" or serious as far as relationships go. . .they bail and move onto the next one, repeating the entire pattern all over again.

And they do this because they don't want to get "real" and they don't truly want a serious commitment - so they leave right before the time the relationship would be about to take a dive into that territory.

Based on his actions the first time he left, he clearly did not feel committed to you in any way and was obviously dating others at the same time he was dating you. So having him return will mean he'll most likely do the same exact thing. Remember, when dating - you're not in a committed relationship until the man ASKS you for a commitment. And until that happens, you have to assume there is no commitment. Which leads me to my last fact referenced above. . .you, yourself may not be quite ready for any of this. And I say that because you're exhibiting insecurity which you've admitted (and we've all been there) - but you haven't mentioned what type of work you've done on yourself to aid yourself in no longer doing this. If you haven't done any work on yourself and you haven't developed healthy coping skills to fall back on when you feel this way, then the reality is that most likely, your own behavior would repeat itself as well - and you may not be equipped at this time to handle the casual dating phase (the phase without commitment).

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So what's the point in wishing for any of this to return to you again, when a 3rd repeat of the exact same scenario could take place, ya' know?

Rather than put yourself through this a 3rd time, I'd be more apt to suggest that you let this man go and instead, love yourself. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. And I wouldn't want to see that happen to you. He's had two chances at this, you've had two chances at this - and it didn't work. I don't think there's a need for a 3rd repeat. Instead, I think in the long run you'd be much happier letting this go, ignoring this man once and for all if he does return a 3rd time, and instead focusing your energy and efforts on yourself - a much more valuable thing than a relationship.

Did you read this article above - there are NEVER happy endings with disappearing men. In some 5,000 comments and stories shared on a previous post here over the course of several years. . .there's not one happy ending to report with a disappearing man dear. Did you watch the video here? When people leave you and walk away from you, it's because they're not attached to you. And when they're not attached to you, their part in your story is over. That's the reality. If this was going to work with him - he would not have walked away - TWICE.

So you're much better off accepting that and not putting yourself through this a 3rd time and instead, just focusing on yourself, working on yourself, developing healthy coping skills to fall back on, developing ways to deal with anxiety (instead of acting on it), and participating in things that build your confidence, instead of accepting second best or poor treatment that chips away at it - and just loving yourself dear. Because once you do that, you'll begin to attract like-minded individuals back to yourself. You'll start to meet a higher caliber of men, ones that are ready for what you want and that don't run from it at the first sign of trouble.

Investing in yourself always brings a much higher payoff than investing in others. Love yourself, work on yourself, know your value, never settle for second best, never accept poor treatment, and when poor treatment happens - issue a consequence for it. Don't reward poor treatment with more of your time and attention, and always keep moving forward - never looking back and wasting time dredging up the past.

Because the reality here could be that - whether you're the perfect girlfriend or not, and whether he meets a woman who is the perfect girlfriend or not. . .this man may simply not be able to last more than 6 months with ANYONE, because he doesn't want a committment like that.

And if that's the case, nothing you do or say is ever going to change that with him. So you're much better off investing in yourself and working on yourself so that when the RIGHT man does come along - you've got this licked and you don't revert back to self-destructive behavior or letting fear and insecurity steer the wheel. . and you come out on top a winner, having found what it is that truly makes you happy, instead of settling for things that MIGHT make you happy if a million other pieces fall into place properly (which isn't likely).

kayla said...

Mirror (February 26, 2015 at 8:43 AM,

"1) He's disappeared - twice.
2) The first time, he left you for someone else.
3) There seems to be a 4 - 6 month pattern playing out in his dating life.
4) His behavior is indicating that he may not be ready or actually even want a committed relationship.
5) You, yourself may not be quite ready for a truly committed relationship."

Wow, you hit the nail on the head.. Seriously, the points you made are SO on target, it's crazy! You're good! Starting with the relationship times being less than 6 months, yes! He actually is 34 and when we met told me his longest 'relationship' was 6 months, but that he has never labeled anything, so I guess technically he's never had one. That's why when we hit 4 months and there was nothing official, I didn't worry. But I made the mistake and did assume we were exclusive; he invited me to meet his family after a month, talked the future years in advance (but I now know that's a red flag).

you're also completely right that I need to work on myself here
I have been struggling with why I NEED this person...the feeling of rejection (again!) has been painful. Also beating myself up because I knew my actions would make him run, yet I kept it up. So I for sure need some serious self-reflecting.

I have been crying daily, planning my first contact when 30 days is up and also having extreme anxiety that he will not even respond. The way he left last time there was NO warning. He wouldn't even respond when I texted asking what happened. Makes me feel like trash he threw away. Would it be wrong to contact for closure? I know it will occupy my mind otherwise.

for whatever crazy reason I keep thinking we'll be different and it could work in the future...but knowing it is so unlikely makes me know I need to move on, but why's it so damn hard?! Is it wrong I at a minimum wish he'd text so I could ignore??

THANK YOU! Your response was eye opening!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Kayla,
"Would it be wrong to contact for closure?"

Well, it's not that it's wrong - it's that it isn't wise (because you risk rejection again), and frankly - you won't receive it anyway. And here's why.

It's human nature for people to think that HEARING something will provide closure for them. But the truth is that never happens. What does happen is the words hurt you, slice right through you, and only end up creating even more questions -- to which you're then seeking more "closure" from. And before you know it, it's a vicious cycle that never ends and instead, becomes a verbally toxic situation. Either that, or you end up just being flat out lied to.

So anyway you slice it - the truth is that closure only comes from YOUR acceptance of the situation -- and NOT from someone WORDS about the "why".

YOU are the only one that can grant yourself the closure you're seeking -- through acceptance.

He can't help you achieve closure, because you have to ACCEPT what's happened, you have to ACCEPT the reality and truth of the situation to receive the closure you seek. He can say whatever he wants, but if YOU don't ACCEPT it, then nothing's "closed."

And you don't need to HEAR anything to receive closure -- because his ACTIONS have already delivered that for you. All you need to do to receive closure at this point -- is accept the reality here, ya' know?

And the reality here is most likely, had this particular situation not happened, most likely this man would've found another excuse to bail - because he's a 34 year old grown man that has NEVER been capable of commitment beyond 6 months. And the reality with folks like that is that they're commitment phobes. They bail right when things are about to "get real" or serious because they have no intention of ever letting a relationship get to that point.

That's your closure right there dear. That's the reality. That's the truth you seek. And all you need to do to feel at peace about this. . .is ACCEPT that truth :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and ladies

How are you all doing? I suppose you can say it’s ‘one of those days’ for me. I’m just trying to stay positive, remember my worth and stay focused on me.

Though I have had some good days (reading, journaling, exercising and doing things to become my best self), I have also had some not so great days. I have had a good cry a time or two and there have been moments when I let my thoughts and emotions override my mood. I came here because I wanted to share a little with you ladies. I know you all understand, so it’s nice to come here and share.

Believe it or not, the DM has not contacted me since I called him back that one time on Jan 25th (I posted here on Jan 26th). No return call or text, nothing. I don’t know why I am letting this person take up any of my headspace, when he does not deserve to be there – but it really hit me recently that he could have never truly cared about losing me. He initially made contact on Christmas day, then the second week in January, then Jan 25th. Three separate occasions. The day I ‘gave into’ the third occasion (with one phone call which was not answered by him), he disappeared.

After so many years, this is the way I am treated. What can I say? It hurts to come to the realizations I have come to (tears), but I am picking up the pieces and taking the steps to fully forgive myself, fully forgive him and take everything I have been through as a learning experience.

I hope everyone is doing well
– Writing From Jamaica

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

Someone gave me a book, "Date mate or soul mate". There is a chapter that asks you to identify your 10 must haves/10 can't stands, assessing important qualities that you want/ don't want in a relationship, even before you begin the dating process. It's a tool, obviously, to get to know yourself (as well as keeping your antennae up to being "other conscious") before getting swept off of your feet.

My previous boyfriend who "swept me off of my feet" had 5'qualities of my must haves (half of them) and 4 can't stands (out of 10). The author emphasizes that any "can't stand" to pay attention to, as it could be the ultimate deal breaker (such as lying or infidelity).

Anyway, 2 must haves on my list were: Chemistry and sexual attraction. I dated someone awhile back and i just matched these values up to how I felt about him... He had every must have, except the 2 mentioned above. On my can't stand list... he had none/ zero. (No lying, manages money well, etc.)

My question is... Do you think I can make this a happen without chemistry? I've been meditating on your comments that "nice guys can grow on us". I quit dating him because I found it even hard to kiss him. However, everything else matches up perfectly. What do you think?
@better tomorrows (formally @feeling Sad)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Better Tomorrow,
"Do you think I can make this a happen without chemistry?"

Unfortunately, there's no way to predict that. It's impossible to predict how someone will feel. To find that out, you have to actually participate in the situation for a couple of weeks and then see if anything's changed about the way you feel.

chk61 said...

@Mirror and Better Tomorrow:

The chemistry thing. Interestingly, recent popular dating advice tells women to avoid chemistry (Evan Marc Katz for one) because it usually doesn't last and doesn't make for a lasting relationship. I agree that when you're incredibly attracted to a man it can blow up in your face but I have a hard time getting past the "do I want to kiss him" test. If I don't want to kiss a man after spending a couple of dates or getting to know him through work or a shared avocation, then I consider him a friend and not a potential boyfriend. I guess it depends on what is important to you, and the importance of the physical aspect of the relationship as opposed to the other attributes, e.g. emotional support, a sense of belonging, someone to rely on, etc.

That said, I do think nice guys can grow on us although for me, it is rare. The initial spark does usually fade, yet I've wanted to feel a spark, at least in the beginning. With age, I wonder if a relationship based purely on companionship and less on the physical is possible. I've yet to find it but when I look back, I am sure I overlooked men that I did not feel "chemistry" with who otherwise would have made solid partners. I'm working on being open to a warm partnership rather than a "hot" one, focusing on a long slow comfortable burn rather than a sizzling, can't sleep, have butterflies, walking on air type attraction (as Evan Marc Katz likes to point out - "so, are you still with that guy?") Um, no...I'm not with that guy.

Interestingly, I don't believe men are ever counseled to consider dating women they are not physically attracted to. I could be wrong though. ;-)

Anonymous said...

@Writing From Jamaica
I am sorry to hear that you are feeling so sad these days. As Mirror wrote repeatedly in her articles, these DM often just check if you are still there for them and once they get this reassurance they usually disappear again knowing that they can afford to postpone contact (if they want any at all). I could recently observe this behaviour on the cyclist. He reappeared in my life, I said yes, we went walking and that was all. He wasn´t really interested although it was him who had contacted me not vice versa. I thought we would go walking or cycling again as friends but no, he just wanted to know I was still ready and waitingLOL. Fortunately, I have been over him for quite some time so his behaviour doesn´t hurt me anymore. And I guess your DM will be back too once he loses that certainty that you are still waiting. Also, I think he will be curious as to what´s up with you. Don´t be too sad. Continue focusing on yourself and if possible, try to move on. I know that it´s more easily said than done but it´s the best thing to do.
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@chk61 and The Ladies,
I agree with Evan and have often said myself many, many times - what most people confuse for "chemistry" is nothing short of shallow sexual attraction. Meaning, it's not real chemistry, it's only sexual attraction and nothing more, which does not constitute true "chemistry."

True chemistry is in how well you relate to one another on the levels that truly matter such as how well you get along, how well you argue and fight (yes, this can be done properly), how many interests you have in common, whether or not your morals and values align, whether or not you both have similar goals in life, how well you each support one another, etc. Those are the things that truly matter. They are the things that become the glue that holds a couple together for the long haul, once the looks fade and the sexual heat has subsided.

Because if you rely on the heat to be the tie that binds, it won't last long - but these other things will and in the end, they are what makes for a long lasting relationship and sex only accounts for a small fraction.

"I don't believe men are ever counseled to consider dating women they are not physically attracted to"

They're probably not counseled on it - because they do it regularly anyways LOL.

I've noticed, at least with my male friends, that even if they're not attracted physically in an "overall" sense to a woman. . .they tend to find attractive things ABOUT the woman to zero in on and hold onto. I've actually had many male friends say things like, "She's not necessarily a stunner, but she's got beautiful eyes and a nice butt." Or, "She's not perfect, however, she's fun and she likes sports." Or "She's a bit wild, but she likes to go dirt bike riding and so do I."

Believe it or not ladies, many men don't necessarily hold looks real high on their list. Sounds nuts, I know cause they run their mouths about it often, but --- it's their little secret and they don't want you to know the truth LOL. And the truth is -- they "talk" about how they want a super model, and they talk about boobs and sex a lot - but they date real women. Women just like you and me, everyday. They say these things cause it's "manly" and it impresses their male friends and it triggers women to try to live up to that.

But the reality is that these men are just talking - while their actions signal something entirely different. Behavior that many men are accustomed to doing regularly (as seen by the comments on this site LOL) - say one thing then do something completely different. Give one impression while the reality is something completely different. Men do this everyday - and they do it with women and when dating all the time. It's part of their grand "PR Marketing Campaign" they're running for themselves LOL.

Talk and act like you're larger than life, even if you're not - it's a guy thing related to pride and ego, ya' know?

I can't tell you how many times I've heard a man reference that all his past girlfriends were "hot" - and then when I see them I'm like, "Hmm. That's just a normal girl, like every other girl. She's not on the runway, nor would she probably even make the cut (cause runway standards are extremely high) - she's just a real girl is all, like the rest of us."

Trust me ladies, men find LOTS of things about women "hot" - things you'd never even imagine. Heck, the female form in and of itself is considered "hot" by male standards. You don't have to be a stunner, you just have to be a female is all LOL.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

The reality is that generally speaking, men are accustomed to - and often do - date below their "ideals." And the definition of ideals is "a person or thing regarded as perfect."

And women do this too, although I will say it's been my experience that women tend to create "wish lists" about their perfect man that they actually EXPECT to find - versus men who have a "wish list" in mind, but date below it regularly and without pause. And I'm sure you've all seen this - the handsome man with the average woman. The beautiful model type woman with the average man. It works both ways, but I do tend to see more women actually EXPECT to find all these qualities in a mate versus men, who would like it. . .but don't necessarily "hold out" for it and not date someone because of it.

Many men have wish lists but continue dating real, everyday women - and sleeping with them too.

I mean sure, men all wish for the super model girlfriend and many of them are starting to expect it nowadays. But what I mean is that, generally speaking, men will just as easily sleep with a woman they consider to be a 4 as they would with a perfect 10, ya' know? I don't like to rate women like that but you get the idea. Men date and sleep with women constantly that pretty much run the gammut of looks - hell, I hate to say this but some even have sex with animals, prostitutes - again, you get the idea LOL.

But again, this is just my personal opinion. And I often notice women holding this idea of "perfection" closely. Planning the perfect wedding and then stressing if cutting the cake was a half hour past the preapproved time, trying to be perfect in work and when dating, not leaving the house if it's a bad hair day, not going to the store without makeup on and always just generally feeling as if they have to be perfect in every aspect of life to the point that they run themselves ragged while attempting to achieve this sense of perfection.

Whereas men, generally speaking, do not hold themselves to such high standards (as we've all seen here in the comments on this site LOL). They pretend that they do, but then their actions signal something completely different because they will just as easily sleep with the girl next door as they would with a super model - in a heartbeat. Again, most times with men, you don't have to have super model looks for them to seek sex from you, you just have to be female - period LOL.

I saw a show one time where a counselor was working with women about this concept - the idea of perfection. She took these women into a sports arena where she had literally hundreds of men show up. She asked the girl to whip out her list (yea, this girl actually had a written list of "must haves" that was a mile long and she truly believed she could find this someday). Once the list was out, she said to the men, "When she hits something on her list that doesn't apply to you, I want you to leave the arena.

By the time this woman got to about the 6th or 7th item on her list - the arena was empty. And I mean not one man left standing.

And it proved the counselors original point which was something along the lines of "If you find 70% of what you NEED in another human being, not what you WANT - but what you truly NEED - you better snatch that person up quick. . .and forget about the 30% you want that ultimately doesn't matter."

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, ck61, Jamaica and the ladies,

Thank you for writing and all the food for thought... as always. Jamaica sweetie, I too, feel your pain. If there is any one reading this and red flags are starting to show in your dating relationship, PLEASE do yourself a favor -- and run. Jamaica and I are proof that with time, the relationship doesn't get any better; don't waste years of investment. My red flags and disappointments didn't show up until 6 months into it. Hindsight. 20/20.. I look back and see mirror telling me at every instance, "Are you sure this man can make you happy?" (Code for, "This isn't working out -- get out".) Relationships are work, but one that isn't growing and moving towards future goals (I.e. Keeps delaying the moving in together, won't acknowledge you as his girlfriend, won't make you exclusive, or keeps putting on hold the promised proposal, as in my case -- are not positive signs).

The past boyfriend was instant attraction and I also thought he was a person of integrity or I wouldn't have continued dating him. At 2 1/2 months, he gave me the first clue that he didn't have the character that I thought he did, but it was the next night, after I had slept with him. I remember sitting there a little jolted as he revealed something about himself, but my mind said... "Well, he was just trying to be honest and transparent; he's trying to be intimate,closer -- just let it go. It's an isolated incident".

Anyway, the "wish list" is a mental reminder for me not to ignore the fundamental characteristics that are a good foundation to any relationship. I ignored these in the former relationship; a lot of the "no brainers", such as: Bad money management, drinking 3 beers to my one, he had no interest in spiritual things (and I do).... you get the picture... And it's because I was sooo attracted to him that I ignored things that I shouldn't have. My intention is to become more observant, not have unrealistic expectations....

Anyway, my mother met the man that I am dating and having trouble kissing. And she said, "let me ask you something.... His teeth are kind of rotten looking, very discolored, like a grayish color (maybe from earlier tetracycline use)? And my mom said, "Envision him with beautiful teeth-- and now how do you feel?" Wow, that did the trick... I found him attractive when I closed my eyes and thought about it. It's not that I feel I'm shallow Mirror... even my 80 year old mother noticed it. But the interesting tidbit is that this man has money. It's not money holding him back, here. Is this even an approachable subject?

On a sidebar note, The DM (that brought me here) sports a look that I mentioned would look good on him. He was balding and he mentioned to me that it bothered him. I mentioned that a lot of guys shave their heads and grow a goatee and it looks great. Well, he took that idea to his hairdresser and she told him "how hot" she thought that look would be on him... so he did it; he then became a sought after bachelor and then dumped me... and still has the look, btw. (Interestingly enough, years later-- we are now friends ... Had dinner 6 months ago with him, but he's a "forever bachelor" -- I know it, he knows it -- it's all good). The point is, it went over well with him, however, he did bring it up first. Any suggestions, mirror? Of course mom was quick to point out that if he got his teeth fixed AND has lots of money.. The same thing could happen to me again (with other women) finding him quite attractive...
Thanks Mirror. @ better tomorrow's

Anonymous said...

@ Hopeful
Thank you for your kind words, encouragement and sharing your experience with the cyclist. I'm sure it feels great to be over him. I am better now than I was a few days ago. I was just a bit disappointed in myself that after knowing what I know about DM from Mirror’s articles and the advice she gave, I still contacted him…and I really started to see the reality that it was in fact reassurance that he wanted, nothing more.

I will not stay sad, but I am giving myself permission to feel and move through those feelings, rather than suppressing them. I don’t remember what article it was, but Mirror spoke about giving yourself only 10-15 minutes a day to feel your feelings, then after that, stop, get up and get active in any way you choose. Rather than sit in sadness, I’m moving through the motions of that.

What I have also realized is that, yes he is a DM, but I am also taking accountability for my own contribution to the prolonging of the relationship. It is a good thing to try to understand your own choices to keep accepting poor treatment. Ladies, sometimes you have to just downright get real with yourself, look yourself in the mirror and realize that *you* also contribute to your own hurt by choosing to stay in the relationship or continue communication (despite seeing and ignoring the red flags that present themselves sometimes from very early). Take personal responsibility, but don’t forget to give yourself compassion. I’m still learning to do that..

Ok I’ve rambled on long enough lol. Enjoy the rest of your weekend everyone,
- Writing From Jamaica

PS. Hopeful, how are your mom and dad doing? I hope you are ok :-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Better Tomorrow's,
"Is this even an approachable subject?"

Not at this time - that's a conversation for later on down the road, once you're closer and it looks or feels as if there may be a future here. Put yourself in his shoes, what would happen if someone you didn't know well and were in the early stages of dating made an improvement suggestion like that to you? You'd probably be hurt, and may even be too embarrassed to see them anymore. So my suggestion would be to set that conversation aside for a while until you're closer. If, as in the other situation, he's the one to bring it up, then he's open to discussing it and he's seeking your opinion, which you can then give at that time.

Anonymous said...

Dear Aphroditeastrology,
This is my Second time writing a comment to you in which I want to ask you for advice.My First comment i sent you on January 17th to which i received a response,Thank you!
Unfortunately i can't find it anymore eventhough I was looking for it everywhere.I'm the french girl living in Japan whose japanese bf started to disappear after 2 months of dating.He said he loved me contacted me everyday and we met almost every week.In late November he started to pull away due to workissues or other reasons i still can't figure out .
Like most people do when their Partner pulls back i was trying to get after him,which I know regret.After five days since his last mail,i asked him whether we would meet on Saturday.Since no answer came I asked him the next day,wether i've said or done something on our last meeting that made him uncomfortable.I remember i've been a little bit clingy that day,propably because i was insecure because I felt that something was different.He read it the next day but no answer. Five days later,I asked him whether his silence means that he is breaking up with me and if we are still in a relationship.Since i immediately realised how desperate it sound, I added that it is no problem, if he needs time for himself and that I just would like him to Tell me "i'm busy" and then I wouldn't worry.He read it the next day...but nothing.The next days he kept updating his line status non stop.One of his statuses was "tiring"and "too much work"2 weeks later i've sent him my last message saying that i'm sorry ,if i've put him under pressure when he's so busy with work.That i enjoyed my time with him and that i will go back to my Country over Christmas. We now should both concentrate on our lifes and when everything has calmed down, should meet for coffee.i sent this message on december 12th,so exactly 3 months have passed since I last reached out for him.The last months i was trying to keep myself busy with meeting other guys online but I just can't bring myself to exchange e-mails with someone.I'm tired of trying to be interested in other guys ,I get bored quickly and start comparing them with him.
I signed up for the gym,got a new haircut but I still can't help thinking about him,which propably has something to do with still being connected to him via facebook.He's rarely updating his status but his relationship status says he's still"in a relationship".He changed it from Single to in a relationship after he asked me to be his girlfriend.I removed my status after he started ignoring me for 2 weeks.First I was hoping he was just exhausted and pulling back because he needs time for himself and by not changing his facebook status ,he would secretly show me that he is not done with our relationship.However after so many weeks have passed I'm suspecting he might have a new girlfriend or got back with his ex.
Apparently they broke up 2 months before we got together.Maybe the thing we had was just the rebound relationship but I remember a year ago ,he already wanted to date me and started becoming really emotional after I told him I couldn't feel it.I know i propably would be better off without him but i can't forget him.Also I think he checks up on my via facebook from time to time.He hasn't blocked me on Whatsapp or Fb either..
My friends say i should block him or delete him but i don't feel ready to do that.Are 4 months too long to expect to hear from him again?Do you think he will contact me again?
I

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@French Girl Living in Japan,
No once can predict if someone will return or not. It all depends on the individual, the level of interest and their situation in life.

"The last months i was trying to keep myself busy with meeting other guys online but I just can't bring myself to exchange e-mails with someone."

Please realize dear that nothing will change, and you won't successfully move through this, if you don't help yourself, ya' know? Exchanging emails and meeting and talking with new people isn't a marriage proposal - it's socializing. And I see no reason whatsoever for your life to come to a screeching halt and for you to cease socializing all because it didn't work out with a man you dated for 2 months. If you don't help yourself by trying, then you'll remain "stuck" in this emotional space.

Life is always going to through these situations at us. People are always going to disappoint us. These things are part of the human experience. And when they happen, we need to fall back on our coping skills to help us move past them. Nothing will happen overnight and it takes time, resources, and an investment in yourself (because you're worth it), to successfully overcome these things. And in order to fully attempt to place yourself first and move away from the past, YOU have to take the steps that are necessary to help yourself do so. You have to let go of him. If you continue to cling to him or the thought of him or the thought of what "might be" instead of focusing on and accepting "what is" - you're not going to make progress dear. It takes strength to let go of the things we love and care about in order to love ourselves MORE. This man is not your world. He does not represent your future. You have your own life and your future is that of your own choosing. If you can accept that, you will find peace.

And one of the steps that I believe you need to take in order to truly cut the ties, take control of the situation for yourself, place yourself first, and focus on your future instead of dwelling on the past. . .is to cut him off on social media. Being able to view his life and his actions there is NOT helping you move past this, it's keeping you stuck in the past. Any human being is going to struggle with letting go of the past - when it's right in front of their face everyday. But you can take control of that. You can choose to hang on, or you can choose to move forward - either way, the choice is yours and that is something that you can control. If I were you, I'd take the first step towards helping myself and loving myself and placing myself first by breaking those connections.

If you can do that, you will see that in time, when his life is not in your face everyday and you have actually taken control and placed him in your past yourself - that he will indeed fade into the background as you have released yourself to move forward.

"My friends say i should block him or delete him but i don't feel ready to do that."

Well, do you understand what you're truly saying there dear? What you're actually saying there is, "I don't feel ready to let him go." You're hanging onto him, and because of that, you're suffering. Your inability to let him go is what is causing your suffering. Your inability to let him go is what's keeping you tied to him. Your inability to let him go is what's making it difficult for you to move forward. Your inability to let him go is what's making it difficult for you to meet other men.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Do you notice the one common thread in the chain link of events above? The common denominator there is - YOU. You're feeling helpless, you're feeling trapped, you're feeling tied to him, and your feeling as if he is still controlling you in a way because of these emotional connections but the reality is that it's YOU that's creating all these feelings for yourself. It's you that's punishing yourself and it's you that's not permitting yourself to move forward.

You actually have control of ALL these things dear - you just have to reach out and grab it, by letting him go. Once you release yourself from him, all of these things will begin to heal, and all of these painful emotions will be released into your past, freeing you to move forward. You can either chose to live in the past by holding onto it, or you can chose to explore your future by letting go of the past. You have free will and you can use it to help yourself. But in order to do that, you have to take the first step - which requires you to let go of the past.

Anonymous said...

@Writing From Jamaica and everybody,
Thank you very much for asking, thank goodness, my parents are relatively okay (at least for this moment). Hopefully, they will continue doing well. The experience with my father (he collapsed, I had to call an ambulance, he was taken to hospital) deeply affected me. He had collapsed and been to hospital before but this time it felt different. I realised one thing - you can´t always maintain control over a situation or influence its result. (Not that I hadn´t realised this before but this time it sank deeper somehow). I understood I had to surrender to any outcome which would follow. The whole situation and this realisation exhausted me. I had already been exhausted of my experience with online dating and my father´s situation was the last drop I guess. My immune system got weak and I fell ill. Now I am better but still in that state of mental surrender. I feel weak to fight with life, people, myself, anything, so I accept everything as it is including my situation with men. I am exhausted so I let everything go as it wants to go. I only hope that this state of mind will stay because actually, it feels good. it´s a relief... We´ll see whether it will stay or go... And I wish all the ladies here could enjoy such a peace of mind (at least temporarily and ideally without any previous negative experiences)...

Have a nice weekend,
Hopeful:-)







French girl said...

Thank you so much for your advice again ,
I've read your responses many times and let it sink into me.
I had to admit to myself that while he already moved up long time ago I didn't or better said i didn't.I hang on to something that doesn't exist anymore or propably never existed in frst place.Two days ago I saw that he had updated his cover picture on FB with a photo of a place he recently went to .I couldn't stop asking myself who he were with.One girl commented on the picture and he replied immediately.I broke my Head over where he must know this girl from and how many Girls he communicates with why he's ignoring me.I was so upset and all the emotions came back i thought it really is time to defriend him.
I Need to get him out of my head.Now that 3 days have passed i have to say i feel less pressure from myself to keep this situation under I was lying to myself thinking If i suffer long enough and hold on to him I could draw him back to me.
I feel better emotionally having deleted him.I don't have any more Access to his entries,pictures ,I can't Check if he's online or which girls he writes with.I feel less need to analyze his actions anymore and slowly coming to accept the situation as what it is.I was actually planning to keep him on my list so he can see what he misses out.Last weeks i was so focused on uploading pictures where he can see I'm moving on,I'm having fun.Even tried to make him jelaous by uploading pictures of dates ,when I actually only went there with a friend.Now i feel emberassed.lol
Anyway he is consuming to much of my thoughts so I think deleting him from my friendlist was a good decision.I didn't block him because I still have a tiny hope he might reach out for me one day but for now I will continue focusing on myself
Though i would like to ask you what other readers experience on deleting their ex bf from fb/What's up is!
Did the guys ever try to reach out for them once they were deleted?

Anonymous said...

@French girl

Why didn't you just unfollow your DM on FB so that you didn't have to keep seeing his posts on your timeline after he disappeared on you? That's what I did, and have not looked at his page in 6 months. The way I see it, it does not matter what he's doing or who he is dating because he is not in my life anymore. I have not quite worked up the indifference to unfriend him. I also think FB does not reflect reality. People only post good pictures of themselves, and they try to portray themselves in the best possible light always. People always look like they are positive and having the time of their lives on FB. That's not reality, and most people who spend a lot of time on FB become lonely as a result. It's just not real. All my pictures look great on FB, and I look like I'm having a lot of fun. The reality is, I have been struggling with the way my DM treated me, I have been unhappy. But I am just persevering through the pain and trying my best to move on -- even though I may seem happy on FB.

Anonymous said...

lol my guy is not really "disappeared".. he sends me snapchats everyday, but I usually ignore it... I need real text

Zoe said...

Dear Moa and everyone who is struggling with moving on and still thinking of the would should and could haves, a great read that I just stumbled upon:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/relationships/2012/01/the-healing-power-of-conscious-acceptance-%E2%80%93-what-it-is-the-power-of-%E2%80%98how%E2%80%99-you-respond-1-of-2/

Im trying to learn acceptance in every field of my life but the most difficult for me is when it comes to relationships, I think. We all tend to wait and hope and wish instead of accepting what is and moving on from a man that does not make us happy any more. I hope this helps everyone who needs some empowerment now xx

chk61 said...

@Hopeful:

I hope you are feeling stronger these days. After another stint at online dating (I did not have a full-fledged profile with photos, my face was hidden) I also felt exhausted by it and took my profile down. I'm not crazy about advertising myself on the internet for everyone to see so I offered to send photos to men that I was interested in. Anyway, over a 4 month period I did correspond with several men but none that motivated me to actually want to take the next step and meet them (other than the two I met in December but neither one went anywhere - one I was not at all interested in). It's really a crap shoot when it comes to online dating. About 4 weeks ago I disabled my profile. I then also fell ill and am still recovering, so I can relate!

At this point, I too am just accepting what each day brings and for now, I'm not trying to "find" someone or to manipulate my circumstances. I agree with you that it is a bit of a relief to just surrender to "what is" and just go with it.

I think I've also finally made peace with my D.M. and have let him go. It's been 4 months since I last saw him at his party. He has not made any attempt at contact. Even though I've considered trying to stay "friends" with him, I think it's best to just let it go. That is also a relief, like a weight has been lifted. Once again, he knows how to find me and he chooses to not contact ME.

Take care and happy spring!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. My DM man came back and asked if I could go to dinner and dancing with him and a
Group of friends. I went. We had a great time. It was for his birthday actually. I wished him a happy birthday on his birthday. He said thanks and that he was with his kids and hoped I had a great day and that he would talk to me in a bit. That was one week ago. He had said last week was going to be busy. I was out with my friends Friday night at a restaurant and he ended up showing up there with his son. He came and gave me a hug and I introduced him to my friends. He said he didn't want to interrupt. Now I haven't heard a word from him. Makes me wonder if he just needed a date that night. He said he missed me and loved me, but I don see it. It has now been 5 days and nothing. I'm not going to reach out because of every in the past. We broke up 6 months ago and that was our first time seeing each other. I told him that night that he didn't seem to care too much when I was walking out the door. His response was, "well, you made your decision". He just really seems like he doesn't care. Should I ignore his next contact for at least a week? Is this the point where I need to start mirroring his behavior? He is too busy, so I need to tell him that I am? He drives me crazy and I'm trying not to let him get to me. Thanks, Mirro

Anonymous said...

@chk61
I am happy to hear from you:-). Thank you, I am quite well now. The first sunny spring days did me good (although now it´s unusually cold here again, we even have snow showers). Hopefuly, you will recover soon, too. I think illness, when only minor, is not so entirely bad because it distracts one´s attention from problems and worries and makes them focus solely on their wellbeing. And it cleanses one´s system so it´s easier to start anew. I am glad to hear that you are at peace with your DM. I still think he will contact you some time, most probably when you start forgetting himLOL.

As for me, I have news-no news. Guess who has reappeared? The cyclist. We have resumed regular walks and unless we break up again by the time the weather is more favourable, we will presumably also go cycling again. I am not analysing our "relationship" anymore and as long as he behaves himself I am willing (and quite glad) to go with him. I can appreciate him more after my experience with the trainer, who seemed to be on the same wavelength and disappointed me deeply. He is relatively decent now but I am not sure how long it will last. I guess he is still on the internet but I don´t know for sure and I am too (although not very actively). Apparently, he can´t find anyone either. And these walks are fine - we chat, have movement in the fresh air and at the end stop somewhere to have a good cup of coffee. I always return home exhilarated, my skin is fresh:-)... My mum can´t understand what kind of "union" we have and me neitherLOL. But if he didn´t go, I would go alone anyway, so better with him.

I wish nice holidays to you, Mirror and all the ladies here. Keep smiling no matter what:-).
Hopeful

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror.

LD BF and I broke up. Told him I don't want FWB which is what it was. So we go our separate ways, don't hear from him at all, two weeks go by.

I start putting up ads in order to move on. However, I believe he was answering two of my ads incognito, under a different first name. The reasons for this are: he asked me the same questions, came from a Blackberry phone, never put question marks, said other things he did and liked that made me sure it was him. In essence, he is cyber stalking me.

He suddenly appears in an email to one of my ads saying he has a job interview in my city and will be here on a certain day. Keeps emailing me all day and night on that day. Then a week later another email saying he was asked back for 2nd interview and can we get together.

I am going crazy. Is he mind f---king me? Sounds like he wants to get the message to me in a covert way that he may be moving here.

Mirror, what do you think of this? Why in heavens would he go through all this trouble? If he wanted me back, wouldn't he just text or call?






Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everyone,

this is Hopeful again. In my previous post I mentioned the cyclist. Coincidentally, we have been walking today again and the situation between us took a turn. In our country there is a tradition that on Easter Monday men can come to a woman´s place unannounced and water and whip her (symbolically or literally) so that she is healthy and procreant. Most women dislike this old custom and young people don´t practise it anymore. Well, we were sitting over a cup of coffee after the walk and he (the cyclist) started hinting that he would come to my place on Monday. I replied that I would be at my parents´, he said he didn´t mind, he would be glad to meet them. We aren´t dating (at least I don´t understand our sporadic walks as dating and our "relationship" history is almost zero as you might remember) so of course, I was surprised to hear him say that. And at that point the moment of truth came to me. I realised I didn´t want him to come to visit our place and meet my parents. I couldn´t imagine it. I realised I didn´t consider him to have any boyfriend potential in relation to me anymore, at least not now. I must say that it quite struck me because in the past I had repeatedly tolerated his misbehaviour, kept forgiving him for disrespect, kept waiting for him, etc. and hoped our "relationship" would develop. Now it seems the tables have reversed and all I am feeling is emotional numbness and exhaustion. So I told him I hadn´t expected he would want to come and we had arranged a different programme with my parents (a lame excuse, I know). He understood and looked at me in disbelief. Apparently, he hadn´t expected refusal. Because actually, I did refuse him. For the first time in our history. And it´s strange because during the walk I felt fine, we joked and laughed, I felt okay with him... However, as soon as he expressed a more serious interest I got detached. Obviously, I have had enough of his misbehaviour and now I am unable to relate to him emotionally anymore. Perhaps I fear that he will mistreat me again when I feel interested.

I am sharing this with you for several reasons: to let you know how unusually my story with the cyclist has developed; to show that Mirror´s teaching is right - if you aren´t desperate men find you a more interesting challenge (although in my case my aloofness is not "played", I really feel it now); and to ask you for your opinion. Do you think that he might really have changed and realised his mistakes and rudeness? Because I guess that a great deal of my reservation is caused by my fear of being hurt again when I let myself feel anything towards this man. So far, over the few years I have known him, whenever I opened myself to the possibilty of being his girlfriend, he sensed it and let me down. On the other hand, as friends perhaps we have been more successfu than not. Shall I stop seeing him for good? He has expectations I cannot meet, certainly not now and maybe never. As I wrote in my previous post, I am still on the internet open to new options (although not so actively but still open). What do you think? I´ll appreciate your view, thank you:-)
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
Well this is an interesting turn of events ;-)

Me personally, I would not feel comfortable suggesting that you trust in this man - to follow through on anything he's saying unfortunately. Meaning, it's possible that even had you agreed, he'd have never showed up anyway. His history has not exactly been a stellar one as far as consistency is concerned, and for me, it'd take a LOT more than this "promise" for me to let my guard down with this one.

As for not seeing him anymore at all, I think at this point that's a personal decision for you. If you think you can remain friends without becoming emotionally involved and possibly getting hurt as a result (should he become inconsistent again), and you think you're strong enough to continue holding your own with him - then I'd say leave things be - no harm, no foul.

However, if this recent turn of events is making you feel uncomfortable or maybe even possibly creating a romantic sense surrounding this friendship now and you already know that you're not interested in that, nor would you ever be at this point, then I'd say let it go. No one needs to be placing themselves into uncomfortable situations that are ultimately pointless no matter which way they go.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 3, 9:52 PM,
"Is he mind f---king me?"

Quite possibly - YES.

"Why in heavens would he go through all this trouble? If he wanted me back, wouldn't he just text or call?"

Not if he's immature and insecure. If that's the case, those insecurities and emotional immaturity will cause him to exhibit whacked behavior.

Additionally, bear in mind that none of this really means he wants you back. With a guy like this, all this behavior generally always means is that. . .they want to continue receiving sex for nothing and having things go their way.

It doesn't mean anything has changed, it simply means he's attempting to keep you around as a sexual option, so keep that in mind when observing this behavior from him.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Thank you for your advice. I agree that it´s no point in trusting this man anymore - he´s had numerous chances, more than any other man in my life by the way (not because he is so special but because there are so few options to meet new people here) and he kept disappointing me and taking me for granted. I think another reason for his willingness to "move things forward" might be his financial situation - he told me he had invested a lot of money in a project which failed so he lost it all. Not that I am a millionaire but I am not broke either so perhaps he would like to allow me to help him a bit, who knows? Anyway, whether I will continue going cycling with him or not, I will certainly keep him at an arm´s length and continue in my effort to meet someone else. I am not romantically interested in him anymore but of course, if he was nice and respectful I can´t be sure whether I would fall for him again or not. As you say, I will definitely be cautious with him. And maybe he will not contact me at all after this refusalLOL. In any case, thank you again for your reassuaring words, it always helps me to have your support.

Have a nice rest of the weekend,
Hopeful:-)

Anonymous said...

I love your articles and responses to comment, you are spot on!!

Question I would like to get some clarification on!!

You say when he reappears that you should wait 3 days to call/text him back. Reading through the comments, I read one where you said to mirror him...example, if he takes 2 weeks to contact you, you wait 2 weeks to respond.

I'm a bit confused, can you elaborate a bit more on this?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 5, 12:08 PM,
"You say when he reappears that you should wait 3 days to call/text him back. Reading through the comments, I read one where you said to mirror him...example, if he takes 2 weeks to contact you, you wait 2 weeks to respond. I'm a bit confused, can you elaborate a bit more on this?"

Well it really boils down to a personal decision from several options that exist. Each individual's situation is a bit different and of course, some of more comfortable than others making bolder moves, so that's where free will and choice comes in.

When a man disappears there are several options:

1) Cut him off for good.
2) Cut him off until one of two things happens: he apologizes and/or invites a "talk" of some sort.
3) Wait a few days and don't jump on his contacts.
4) Mirror him and wait as many days/weeks to respond as he did to contact you.

In each of the situations, the bottom line is that you're basically "holding your own" in some form or fashion, with some options being more severe or stringent than others. And it's really up to the individual to decide what's best for them or what they're comfortable with or what they think the situation deserves. I really can't tell others what to do and can only offer suggestions that help to keep them from getting run over and left for dead - so that's why you'll see different suggestions and different uses from time to time.

chk61 said...

@Hopeful: Thanks for sharing your recent developments! I am curious as to how the cyclist reappeared? Did he contact you or did you run into him? I think Mirror's advice is very good. It seems that he really cannot disappoint you now since you've (or at least it sounds like) lost any romantic inclinations towards him. Do you think you can stay "just friends" with him and see how that goes?

And as far as his financial situation, that is interesting since over the years I've heard stories of women rescuing men who are in financial dire straits. Something I have never been interested in doing! Although I've noticed that several women in my age group tend to be the "providers" in a sense. I know of 5 long term couples in their 50's and early 60's. Four of these men moved into homes that were already owned by the women, and I expect the other one will eventually as well. The women are all more "successful" and provided housing for the men, and these women did not get their houses in divorce....they bought them on their own. Different world than the one I was raised in.

Speaking of money, I will admit I peeked at my D.M.'s online dating profile this week that he reactivated in the late fall, apparently in the wake of his last break up. It's been 4 months of no contact. He cannot tell that I looked, by the way. When I met him online and through the entire time I have known him, he never disclosed his salary in his dating profile (and I certainly understand why - who wants to be judged for how much money they make?). Now I see he has it on his profile and wow, he makes a lot of money (reportedly), more than I expected he did. It seems he's not having a lot of luck and he has to post his salary in order to attract women.

And I'm again reminded of how frugal he was with me when we were dating. Sigh. Well, it's all in the past. I'm sticking with no contact and I don't expect to hear from him.

In other news, I met some new people over the weekend, one man asked for my phone number and I gave it to him but now I'm not sure. At the party he was pleasant and I liked his gentle manner but I remembered that he mentioned his ex-wife and how annoyed he is that he has to pay her alimony. I can understand that but its not something I need to learn about someone at the first meeting...

French girl said...

He doesn't really update his Fb much or he had me under private settings,which didn't allow me to see any of his updates except anyway so deleting him wouldn't have been necessairy anyway,that's true.
However I couldn't stop myself from checking whether we were still friends on facebook or he had changed his relationship status to single. I was looking out for signs that he still liked me or if he was already over me/with someone knew.I deleted him because i thought it was the only way to get him out of my head.
Also i have to admit I hoped he would realize I'm trying to move on and start missing me again.
I think i did the right decision.I'm feeling much better though i have to admit it still bothers me that he hasn't tried reach out for me once after having said he loves me.I've recently got back into dating but so far no one I would like to see again especially not my rather creepy date from this saturday. Again i started to think about him more.However I'm not trying to analyze the situation anymore.Letting him go
If he was really into me he would have looked for me.He knows where I live and I haven't blocked him.

Mltn said...

Well, after another go-round with my DM/coworker/BFF, I have some thoughts and wonder about your opinion, Mirror.

I think, if I understand you correctly, you agree with the philosophy that feminine energy is in some respects a vulnerable energy. An openness. That the opposite of that kind of ideal feminine energy is hostility or closed-off energy, where you respond to past hurts by becoming bitter and insecure. The line a woman walks is to be observant of when you are being used or manipulated, while still being open and welcoming of opportunities, positive energy, and love. Remaining unjaded, if you will.

It seems to me that another way to look at men who behave this way is to recognize that they are closed off. Whether they are bitter/hostile/insecure because of past hurts, or whether they have just walled off so many options to where they are only seeking and only giving limited access to themselves (just sex, contact only in "x" amount, etc.), it seems like the essence of a problematic man or a disappearing man is that he is not open to you and not willing to be.

I think that I have been hurt because of the mismatch between my openness and willingness to follow where things might develop with a man, and some men's closed-offness, where they have, for whatever reason, strictly walled off what could happen between us. I think this makes it easier for me to see that there's really nothing that I can do, beyond recognizing this closed-off state - that there's nothing I can do to change or open up a man who has locked down the options for what could be between us.

I am sometimes still profoundly sad about "what could have been," but I think I finally really get that this situation is literally a dead end, that the sense of wonder and journey that I have felt when things were good with DM was solely in my mind and heart, because for him he was never open to what could be, and he never will be, and it's not a matter of timing or managing him or my own behavior. He wants small things, small doses of sex/affection/attention, only on his terms, not the big leap.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mltn,
"it seems like the essence of a problematic man or a disappearing man is that he is not open to you and not willing to be"

That's one way of looking at it. For whatever reason, with DM's, generally it's just not going to happen.

Whether they've been hurt, or they're insecure, of they're non-committal, or they prefer "variety" and the bachelor lifestyle, or they're emotionally immature and simply don't know any better - no matter what the reason, in essence, yes - they're closed off to anything "real" for themselves with another human being.

Mandy said...

Dear Mirror,
My ex bf texted me after 9 months saying he was cleaning up his house and found some stuff that I left there and asked what is the best way to get them back to me.
A little history: Based on your valuable lessons, I went NC after breakup and didn't use my stuff as an excuse to reach out to him and thought my dignity worth more than the stuff.
I think he probably found them earlier, but bring it up just now to maybe test the water ... Anyway, I wanted to get your advice on how to respond classy, I do not want to sound bitter and I do not want to sound enthusiastic. As honestly, I am neither at this point. But want to see what he has to say (if any). Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Mandy,
"I think he probably found them earlier, but bring it up just now to maybe test the water ... Anyway, I wanted to get your advice on how to respond classy"

Stay very "matter of fact" in your response, yet add an upbeat tone to it (so he knows you're "over it), and give him several options to choose from - let him pick. And then see what HIS response to THAT is.

Something along the lines of, "Oh wow, I had actually forgotten about that stuff. I'll actually be in the area on [provide a day, time when you know he won't be there cause he's working or whatever] and you can leave it outside [in whatever location] and I can swing by and pick it up. If that doesn't work, you can always swing by and leave it [on your porch, with a neighbor, etc.] And if neither are convenient for you, feel free to dispose of it. Like I said, I had forgotten about it anyway - but thanks for reminding me and asking!"

If you tell him to just pitch the stuff as if it's worthless to you, and you've long moved on and could care less about it - he probably won't be expecting that LOL. Additionally, it'll throw him for a loop and make him come up with Plan B and reveal his intentions (if he has any) of actually using that stuff as an excuse to communicate with you or see you.

So if he balks at pitching it, and instead seems insistent on getting it back you and says he can meet you somewhere - then BAM - he's just revealed his intentions in that single statement. . .and you know exactly what his intentions are at that point, which are most likely to attempt to see you ;-)

Anonymous said...

@chk61
I am glad to hear from you again after some time! You ask about how the cyclist contacted me. He sent me a text message - very elegant, isn´t it? He had already reappeared several times before - sometimes he phoned but usually he sends me a text. It has become a routine between us - he invites me for a walk or bike ride depending on the weather and I reply with a yes or no text. By the way, as for money. Similarly to your DM, at the beginning of our acquaintanceship he let me know he is well off. I was glad - not because I am interested in the man´s money but because I don´t want to support an immature person who has wasted money due unwise decisions. I think that if I have been able to save some money from my average salary, the man in my age category could have too. And this is one of many contradictions I have heard from this man - as I said, at the start he claimed he had enough money, now he says he has some financial problems. I don´t know how it really is and it´s not my business. The thing I know for sure is that he has "abbreviated the truth" a few times, which is a huge dealbreaker for me. So I have decided to become his weekend cycling buddy-acquaintance but nothing more. And guess what? He senses my withdrawal and is trying to win me over. Unbelievable. I am truly uninterested, I have even explicitly told him so. Just friends, cycling companions, nothing more. His actions have taught me to be very cautious with him. On the other hand, it is really difficult to meet somebody here. Now I am indulging in a break from online dating. I have just recently removed my ad for some time and feel relief. However, I will try again when I feel like it.

I don´t know the situation in your area but if it is similar to my parts, I guess your DM will definitely reappear. The cyclist has for this very reason - there are not enough new people to meet here. Sad, but that´s part of this dating thing. And I wish for you your DM would reappear because you know him only superficially, which is part of his appeal in your eyes. I would even advise you to contact him on his profile under a different name and identity to see if he was the same as he was with you. Because these men lie and you fall for their lies, not for the real men. Look at me, I am a perfect example of a woman who has woken up from her dream about the "attractive" cyclist. However, if you are still vulnerable to his charm, it´s not a good idea.

I wish a nice weekend to all of you,
Hopeful:-)


Sleepless In NYC said...

Hi MOA and ladies,

I posted herE a few times about two years ago about a disappearing/reappearing who I eventually let go, thanks to advice from MOA. Best decision of my life. He still texts me wanting to hang out, trying to plan dates in advance (which is never something he wanted to do when I was interested), etc. But this post is not about him. A little over a year ago, when I least expected it, I met a guy who was everything I was looking for: intelligent, funny, planned dates in advance, introduced me to his sister, told hiS parents about me, etc. etc. It was nice to finally meet a "good" guy after doing the online dating thing and having little success.

Something happened a month after we met, that has become significant now: He quit a job and was looking for something else but finding a job proved futile until this month. He is (very) financially secure but his career issues over the year took a toll on him and he was depressed. He had major success in his 20s and now in his late 30s he thought he had peaked. The industry he works it is booming in one state (but suffering in the state we both live in). He started looking for opportunities out of state, which I encouraged, although he didn't want to move. We had conversations about "us" but nothing in-depth and we would just defer until next time. He did ask me about my timeline and we discussed marriage and kids.

I was very encouraging about him finding a new position, even if it was out of state. And then it happened. A few days ago. He got an offer while I was out of town. I noticed he was being a little weird and wasn't texting me at much. I have also been very busy with work so I didn't think much of it. I returned to town and he sent a text saying he wanted to meet and talk about us and I got a bad feeling because I was expecting he would want to come over to hang out.. He told me about the offer and then essentially broke up with me (wants to be with me blah blah, i am wonderful...etc etc u know the usual but he doesn't want to ask me to move with him because he can't promise the relationship will work and he can honor the timelines we discussed. Also he mentioned that the relationship hadn't progressed to the point it should have in a year---which is also a product of the fact that he had the career issues so a lot was in limbo. I felt we were both scared of going all in). He didn't even give me the option to decide to move. He did mention possibly taking a break for a month or so but I dismissed it and said either we are together or not. I have really been caught off guard and felt like he had processed all this while I was away and I was playing catch-up. I cried like a baby (not cute) and had a panic attack (extra not cute) right in-front of him! He eventually left and said he is open to talking if i have any solutions but he can't think of anything.

After talking to friends and thinking about it myself, I realize I should just let him go because as you repeatedly say on here, if a guy wants to be with you, he will. It's just very hard on me. I really thought he was the one. i mailed him and told him I wouldn't ask him to come back (which he said he was open to) and that I will just try to move on. I am heartbroken and don't know how to move on. We never said "I love you" to each other so I guess that should have been a red flag. I just figured once he found a job and his mood picked up, it would be "happily ever after" and things would pick up but I guessed wrong. I just figured we would do the long distance for a short while (we both agreed long distance doesn't work) and then I would move. The company I work for has an office in the state he is moving to and making the transition wouldn't be a problem, but I guess I understand that he doesn't want me to do that for him because it's too much pressure on him. Sigh. Back into the dating pool...what a daunting task!

chk61 said...

@Hopeful: yes, it is amazing how the tables can turn. I'm glad you are no longer interested in the cyclist other than "friends" and you don't feel vulnerable regarding what HE wants, decides, chooses. You are in charge of you, you know what you want, and that's great. And yes, when we are unavailable it does make us more attractive - human nature. I live in a pretty big city so there are lot of options for single men here, and the popular opinion is that women outnumber men here so....kind of a different situation. Put online dating on top of it and you have an entire pool of eligible men remaining single because they have way too many options. Naturally, some of these men *do* want to settle down with one woman and they do, as three of my friends can attest to. But many of them, especially 40+, are waiting for the perfect woman and they are dazzled by the hundreds of attractive women, waiting at their fingertips.

It's been 5 months with no contact from D.M. I know he hasn't forgotten me (he contacted me from across the world in November) but he chooses to let 5 months go by, so....that's just the way it is. I was keeping things going, then I stopped last summer, he re-appeared in the fall, and....well, here we are today. Whether or not I hear from him? It's hard to imagine I'll never talk to him again but he is a very competitive person and I think it is indeed possible that I won't see or hear from him again, other than the random awkward bumping into each other in a public place.

He is still online but I won't contact him at all, and he doesn't know when I occasionally peek at his profile. If he contacts me? I'm not sure what I'll do. Hopefully I won't care much at all if indeed that happens.

Other than that, I have a few men pursuing me and it's kind of fun, although I don't imagine I'll be settling down with any of them. I dated one of them over the weekend, he is about 10 years younger, and a talented young lad :-) but we are at different stages of life. My dream and plan is to retire in about 6 years, to travel and enjoy life before my body starts to fall apart. ;-) He seems to be still trying to get established. Since I'm very relaxed and confident with him, he is already kind of crazy about me and it's flattering but also a bit worrisome. I think we can be friends though.

Lately my social life is quite full, I am meeting new people and really having a great time so it's all good. Definitely needing a fair amount of alone time as well. I would like to meet that special man to be the "rest of my life" partner so I am definitely open to it but not anxious about it, and I think that's when things fall into place.

Best of luck to you, and all the ladies here!

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, hope all is well. My DM went without contacting me for a month. He just came back and said he was having a party on Saturday and hoped I could go. He said let him know and he would send me the evite. I didn't reply and it has been 2 days so far. I'm thinking "really? You will send me the Evite". After one month with no contact, that's what I get. Do I continue to ignore for a month like he did me or should I reply and say I have plans? My friend thought I should reply because she said it would look like I was bitter if I didn't reply? I feel like the best thing to do is ignore. What do you think? Thanks, Mirror

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 30, 8:39 PM,
"I feel like the best thing to do is ignore. What do you think?"

If it were me, I'd ignore that. I don't think it'll come across as bitter (there are, or could be, a lot of people ignoring his invite like that besides you), and I actually think that by ignoring it, you'd be giving him something to think about. Something such as, "Gee, she didn't even respond to that, wonder why? What's going on?" And maybe that'll make him think, "Hmm, what's the last thing that happened that she could maybe be upset about?"

Which may lead him to realize that he disappeared without word a month ago and hasn't been in touch since. . .

Anonymous said...

Thanks as always, Mirror! I will ignore. I really don't want to talk to him at this point anyway lol

chk61 said...

Just wanted to respond regarding Anonymous Apr 30, 8:39 PM who received an email about a party invite from her DM. As I mentioned here before, late last fall after a couple of months of no contact, I received a friendly email from my DM's trip across the world and then the Evite to his party came about 10 minutes later. Since curiosity killed the cat and I thought it meant "something" that he wrote to me from an exotic land, I ended up going to the party with a male friend. In attendance were apparently other internet dating exes and "friends", and his ex-wife. Needless to say, it was interesting.

I had a reasonably good time at the party and was *very* glad I brought a male friend as a "date". The moral of the story: that was the LAST time I heard from the DM and that was FIVE months ago.

In retrospect, in the grand scheme of things, it really doesn't matter that I went. I emerge unscathed and yeah, he probably got a little ego boost. So what. It's over. I'm very glad that I did not contact him after the party to thank him (which would be further pursuit), and clearly since FIVE months have passed, he isn't chomping at the bit to keep me in his life. I believe he invited me to surround himself with women he had dated, there were definitely a few of us in attendance.

I am happy to report that I am fully committed to no contact with this DM and am now fending off suitors - it's crazy. I truly believe when you are nonchalant about men, they come out of the woodwork. And as for the DM, he is still searching for his "dream woman", still on the online dating site where we met.

Anonymous said...

To chk61 - thank you for your comments with a similar situation you had. I think it is great that you showed up with another man to his party. Let's him see that you have started to move on from him. I ignored his text with the invite and he text me again yesterday (the day of the party) and asked if I was coming. I ignored that one as well. I couldn't bring myself to respond to him because I'm so Over it with him. Sometimes I feel like he is inviting me to group functions to make it appear that he is with someone because last time we went out, one of my friends said she heard we were back together from one of his friends. I had to tell her I had not heard from him in a month! Like with yours, I think it may have been an ego boost to have a bunch of women at his party especially ones he has dated. I'm so glad I didn't go though!!

Anonymous said...

So, when you play the disappearing act on them and you do finally hear from them, wait it out before replying, how do you respond if they ask why you haven't texted? I wouldn't think you would admit to mirroring. (not hearing words but hearing actions). I finally got a text saying how he's making supper for him and his little girl and thought of me. hope I'm having a nice weekend. After being blown off last weekend to my invite to grill out, and minimal texting all week which half I initiated, I decided to back off friday night. Now it's Sunday afternoon and I get that text. How long should I wait this one out and how do I respond when I do text back?

Anonymous said...

I finally got some unexpected closure on the guy who disappeared on me last year. I found out via Facebook that he got married to a girl whom he just met less than year ago. He started hanging out with her the same time he stopped talking to me. Given the quick wedding, I suspect he got her pregnant. He was also in the middle of a bad child custody battle. Not the best time to get married to someone new. I feel like the lucky one now. Now I have confirmation that he's a messed up jerk. So glad I walked away and never contacted him after he disappeared. I regret the many months I spent being sad about it.

Life can be so lonesome, with so many bad people out there. I think I was really put to the test last year. I’m really tired. This has been so emotionally draining. Mirror, is that why you have given up on dating? I am just about ready to throw in the towel. I'm only meeting men with with some kind of narcissistic personally disorder. I am 41, so the timing is bad as the people available are the ones getting out of marriages and long term relationships. I'm finding out that often times there's a reason their marriages did not work out. Sigh. So emotionally tired of this.


Gem50 said...

@ Chk 61,
Loved reading your "happy to report." Good for you - made me smile.
Cheers girl!

Anonymous said...

I am so excited I found your site. So much awesome info and I haven't stopped reading for hours until I had to get some sleep. My issue is this: I met this guy 6 weeks ago. He already pulled a short disappearing act after 3 weeks. I kept quiet and by the 4th day we had the longest and best text convo yet. He invited me to his place for dinner and a movie (expensive bottle of wine) in which was to celebrate my birthday. He made it all about me. That was our 2nd date. Since then, I invited him to my place for a cook out. He texted "possibly" and I didn't hear from him till the morning after the cook out. We have texted a lot since then and I should have gone off the grid after that stunt but figured, our relationship is too new and he never committed to being there to begin with... And, not like I was waiting on him since I had other friends here too. Now, my biggest concern is his baby momma. He was married previously. Got divorced about 2 years ago and while going through the divorce, had a one night stand with a 23 year old and she is now his baby momma. They did live together and try to make things work once the baby was born but he said it just would never work so she is living with her parents now. She has a big grip and control on his life now. To the point that he isn't ready to let her know he is even seeing anybody. He's worried she will mess up the visitation and child support and make his life miserable. His buddy told me she even threatened to pick up and move away if he crosses her. ???? I'd guess I should stay away until that mess gets straightened out. He is 39 and this is his only child and he is the most awesome dad, loves that little girl so so much.

This was his weekend to have his little girl but the baby momma posted several pictures with the little girl at her parents house. They could be old pictures but, why does she post them hours apart? THen he texted me last night saying he was making supper for him and his daugther and thought of me and hoped I was having a great weekend. I have not replied (mainly because he hadn't replied to my text from Firday morning and I was waiting it out.) But, now, after seeing those pictures, I'm thinking I need to let him wait longer then the planned morning text back to him.

How do I express my concerns about baby momma without appearing insecure? I hate to lose him by coming off as insecure and I don't want to feel selfish. Is it almost like making him choose between me and his daughter? I don't want to be pushy. Just please help me find the right words.

Thank you so much for any adivce you can give.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 3, 4:42 PM,
"Mirror, is that why you have given up on dating?"

Well, that's the reason I gave up dating online years ago LOL. The entire online thing worked better as a "school" of sorts, for learning, realizing my value, practicing, meeting new folks, etc. - but for serious dating, it ended up being way too crazy.

I haven't given up on dating entirely, but regarding a relationship - I'm not in the market for that right now for many reasons. The most critical of which is because. . .quite frankly, I'm very happy with the way things are right now, the freedom that I have, the peace of mind that exists, being anxiety free from worries and cares, etc. In otherwords, at the age I'm at right now and the stage of life I'm in. . .I find calling the shots in my own life much more rewarding than the opposite of that.

Now that's not to say that I'm against relationships, marriage, etc. But I've been there, done that, don't long for it and when I compare that to the way I live now - like I said, at the stage of life I'm in right now, it's a choice and I find that my choice for how I live my life right now makes me much happier - so I choose to keep it that way.

Either way, it's a personal choice that each one of us gets to make about the way we live our lives. And I've found that when you live your life for yourself and you're happier - it shows and you actually become much more magnetic to others because of the positive vibes you begin to emit. Your happiness radiates out and those around you can feel it, and that brings a lot of positive experiences your way and I feel that life in general just becomes much more enjoyable as a result :-)

But to each his own - life is a journey and every one of us are at different stages in that journey, have different needs, different desires, different intentions, long for different things, etc. And you just have to find what it is that truly makes you happy at the stage of life you're in. . .and roll with it.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 3, 4:17 PM,
" it's Sunday afternoon and I get that text. How long should I wait this one out and how do I respond when I do text back?"

Me personally - I wouldn't even bother responding to that for a couple reasons:

1) It's a statement and he's not asking any question that even requires a response.
2) He blew you off last weekend and was rude and didn't respond. So the consequence for treating others that way is that you, yourself, end up being treated the same exact way you treat others (i.e. if you ignore people then you can expect to be ignored yourself).

"how do you respond if they ask why you haven't texted?"

I'd ignore it, I wouldn't address it and I probably would skip right over it. If you're not in a committed relationship, you don't have to explain yourself - particularly to those that are treating you rudely.

And if pressed, I'd simply say "just been busy" - which is a perfectly plausible explanation and all that's needed.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, this is @Anonymous May 3, 4:42 PM. Thanks for the uplifting advice. I think I will just focus on rebuilding my life for the time being. I just left my job and moved internationally. Dating just causes too much anxiety and worrying -- even relationships cause it to some degree. Some freedom from this would be a welcome break. I never intend to try online dating. Your experience, reaffirms my stand on online dating. I just don't have the patience for people's insecurities and sociopathic behavior. It takes a lot of effort to find a four leaf clover, and sometimes you need to accept that you won't find one. I wish you continued happiness. I hope to get to place similar to yours soon. All the best.

Anonymous said...

So what I have just experienced with a DM is that things haven't been working for a long time. I was ready to agree to a mutual split, he no that there is something still there, and then disappears! So am I correct in thinking these guys are 1) avoiding an emotional scene by ending it and 2) not officially ending it so if they want to come back later they think they may still have a chance?

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror! I've never posted here before, but I read your articles about the disappearing reappearing man and no contact, and I took your advice and stopped contacting a guy who had been starting to flake on me. It was really tough, but for some reason, I had a feeling is be hearing from him again at some point. I looked at my phone Sunday night, and there was a text from him... Exactly 3 months later! It's just so bizarre to me, and I've been starting to move on. I am proud of myself though for not reaching out to him. But I had a feeling he'd be back again at some point. Unfortunately at this point I've lost interest, but it does feel kind of nice to hear from him. Thank you again so much for the articles you write!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 4, 6:58 AM,
"How do I express my concerns about baby momma without appearing insecure?"

Well, truthfully - it's too early for that conversation. You don't need to worry about her yet because he hasn't asked for a commitment from you yet. When he starts talking about a commitment is when you talk about her.

When he asks you to be with him, you can then bring up your concern about her and at that time, you guys can work that situation out - when you're making plans for the future together.

Otherwise, bringing it up now may appear as "jumping the gun." Meaning, to him it may appear that you're forcing a conversation about the future before he's even possibly thought seriously of a future with you. Because it sounds to me like when he's ready for a future with you, he'll be taking care of that himself with her when he tells her he's seeing someone, and you may not even need to say anything. That's when this conversation will organically come up and that's when it'll be the right time to have it.

"He's worried she will mess up the visitation and child support and make his life miserable. His buddy told me she even threatened to pick up and move away if he crosses her"

Now mind you, I don't have any children. However, and if I'm wrong here anyone, please feel free to correct me but. . .if there's a court order in place - she can't mess with visitation, nor can she just pick up and leave the state without his consent. If there is no court order, then it's more likely she can do this however, at that time, he can file suit against her for custody and visitation. He has just as many rights as she does concerning the child, so he need not worry because he can exercise those rights.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 5, 6:20 PM,
Sure, either of those are possibilities. And men know that when they just disappear and give the woman some time to "cool off" - many times, what happens when he returns is that the woman becomes "hot" for him again. So this tactic works out to their advantage many times.

However, I'd suggest reading the section in the piece below titled, "What to do When Your Man Disappears:"

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everyone,

I have a bit of an update to share. Nothing major, just something that happened yesterday with the DM that I found strange. As some of you may remember, the last time I was contacted was late January (over 3 months ago). He rang me twice and left a vm. I rang him back an hour later – only for him to not pick up or make any additional attempts since then…up until yesterday that is.

Yep, he called twice. But here’s the part where I’m shaking my head. First of all, I did not realize he called until 2 or so hours after the fact. Not only did I delete his number from my contacts months ago, I also added his number to my phone’s auto reject list (for my own good). While at work yesterday, I went into my call logs after 5:30pm to make a call and I see his number with the symbol to indicate that it was A-rejected at around 3:30pm. I was a bit shocked, but went on with my evening.

It did not occur to me until this morning that that his phone calls came in about half an hour after I signed into Skype yesterday. I have not been on Skype in a very long time (we’re talking over a year here). I signed on yesterday to make a toll free call overseas (after signing in I put myself on invisible mode). I saw that he was online (Away), did what I had to do and signed back out. I did not give it any thought whatsoever that he might have seen me come online and that is why he rang me – until this morning.

It cannot be a coincidence that he called me out of the blue, minutes after I signed in and out of Skype, yet had not contacted me whatsoever since late January. Of course I’m staying no contact, but I just think it’s so strange.

– Writing From Jamaica

Anonymous said...

Cool website! I was searching the web for breakup advice and stumbled across this one. My second relationship ended a couple days ago so maybe you could give some advice about moving forward?

Our relationship was going really well (8 months, more than half of which were long-distance), we were making plans for both short and long term, and I thought we were both very invested and loving to one another. This guy was amazing at staying in contact every day, never made me worry about his care or commitment to me.

Suddenly a few days ago he blindsided me, saying he needed to take a break and couldn't see me any more, that there were personal aspects of himself ("personal demons") he felt he needed to work on and he cared too much about me and thought I deserved better than staying around while he went through this process. Apparently none of his feelings have changed toward me, he can "absolutely" see a future with me, and dating someone else is the last thing on his mind. His past relationships he said have been poison where I was like a "beacon of light" to him. And if he didn't care about me as much as he did, he would've continued to date me. He kept stressing that this is not what he WANTS but what he NEEDS to do in order to have any sort of future with me, and said this would eventually make him happy.

I was absolutely stunned, because when he learned that I thought a break meant we were still together in some way, he said we should just break up entirely so I don't have any false hope in case he hasn't finished working on whatever it is that is bothering him months from now. He doesn’t want me waiting around, but the thought of me with someone else makes him feel sick (and I told him I feel likewise), yet it would still be fair.

What confused me so much is why he doesn't want my care or support during this time. He just restarted a degree at school the same day we broke up, is already working a full-time job and volunteering, which I know were overwhelming him, but he always made time in the past for me. Why not now? And why wouldn't he explain what it was that was bothering him and triggered this thought process in him? He kept calling himself hypocritical for not being open with me, it seemed he was being very self-deprecating, but he can be a perfectionist about self-improvement.

After many follow-up texting conversations, we both established we care about each other deeply but need to give each other space and minimize contact for the time being, although if there was something important we needed to talk about, we could call or text. He especially stressed I should not hesitate to talk if needed, (I was more like, if you ever realize you're ready for us, or if it is something you need me for, you can talk), and in addition, that he would be happy to provide any sort of emotional, verbal, or financial support to me “while we are under these circumstances” (he had helped get a student loan for me, but it is in his name). I just told him that I felt uncomfortable about doing more financial stuff with him and I would pay him back what I owed him as soon as possible, and it probably wouldn’t be the healthiest thing to depend on an ex while I tried to move on. I've also deleted him from social media, and he said he understood and respected my decision.

His decision has been extremely hard to accept, I am trying to keep busy as I have so many things going on in my life right now but I am finding it hard to be motivated given how much time I spent considering his needs as well. What do you think about this situation Mirror? I know it is dangerous to think we could maybe be together again, but it’s on my mind nonetheless :( My last breakup, I spent so much time improving myself in the hope he would take me back, rather than doing it for myself. I don’t want that to happen again.

Anonymous said...

@Mirror

I so much relate to your answer above about your attitude to dating and relationships:-). Recently I have deleted my ad from an online dating site (after being available there for a couple of years) and what a relief! I agree with you that online dating is an opportunity to meet people and gain experience but it is sooo exhausting (at least for meLOL). As I don´t meet new people outside the internet, I have returned to my quiet, single life, I focus on my work, closest family plus I go cycling with the cyclist when it suits ME. I like my life now. I haven´t given up on my dream to find a good partner but at the moment I am too tired to continue looking for him. That dream lurks somewhere in the future, definitely not now. Honestly, I really don´t know where to look so I´ve stopped looking. And I don´t have energy to enrol in courses or go to the gym, etc., just to meet new men. My solution is to focus on everyday life and not think about dating. So I am completely with you! One thing I am sure of though is that when I meet another man, I will be a different woman from the very beginning. I know because I already am. And your information has played a very important part in my change, so thanks again to you for everything you do, every answer and support and all the kind words you wrote to me. And also to all the ladies´support and encouragement.

Best wishes to you and everyone here.
Hopeful:-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 7, 4:45 PM,
"he always made time in the past for me. Why not now? And why wouldn't he explain what it was that was bothering him and triggered this thought process in him?"

He did explain, and he referred to it as "personal demons" which, by the way, are never usually anything good. Meaning - if you stick around, you're going to get hurt. That's what he was trying to tell you I believe, but couldn't just come right out and say. I believe he was attempting to signal to you that if you stick around, he's going to hurt you because he's got some personal demons that you probably know nothing about that are obviously tugging and pulling at him right now.

I wouldn't worry too much about getting back with him at this point. Instead, I'd let these demons of his play out while I'm far, far away from that type of thing. He could be talking about anything there, and like I said, when people refer to stuff as "personal demons" it's never anything good. It's either addiction of some sort like with alcohol, drugs, gambling or sex addiction, or it's cheating, or it's very negative thoughts tugging at them to take action - it's NEVER anything good that's referred to like that.

And when someone says, "he cared too much about me and thought I deserved better than staying around while he went through this process" - that means if you stick around, you're going to get hurt. Whatever it is that he considers the demon inside of himself is going to tug at him to take action and when/if he does, you're the one who's going to get hurt. He knows this, and this sounds to me like this is why he's made his choice.

So if I were you, I'd give plenty of time and space here. Chances are he's actually doing you a big favor here, even though it doesn't feel like it at the moment. And if he works this out, he'll return. But either way, don't sit around waiting for that to happen - keep moving forward in the meantime.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, my DM sent the text a few weeks ago about the party at his house last weekend (he said let him know and he would send me the evite) which I never replied to. He then sent me a text the day of (last Saturday) the party asking if I was coming to his party that night, which I ignored as well. I then got a text this past Saturday and he was asking for my mailing address because he needed to send me an invitation. What is this? Now he is mailing me an invitation in the mail? I didn't reply. Then yesterday he sent a group text saying he was in Atlanta with his son and happy Mother's Day. I don't know who the other recipients were of that text, but I didn't reply to that either. What is all this behavior of his? He disappeared for a month (but he has done this before), so I'm try to stay strong and not answer. It has been 2 weeks now that I have been ignoring his texts. I just don't like that he is treating me like everyone else :/

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 11, 11:00 AM,
"What is all this behavior of his? He disappeared for a month. . .It has been 2 weeks now that I have been ignoring his texts. I just don't like that he is treating me like everyone else"

Looks like he's "acting up" a bit to possibly garner a reaction from you (meaning, get you to respond and contact him). However, as you've said, he's treating you like everyone else here and these are coming across as very general communications that really don't even warrant a response.

If you're upset about this treatment - then DON'T reward it by responding to him. Instead, continue the path you're on and until he contacts you with something more authentic and personal (like a direct communication with an apology), don't bother reacting or responding and maybe eventually he'll "get it" - and do the right thing. And if he doesn't, then it's his loss ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Mirror! I will continue on this path until he comes and apologizes. He may never, but I'm going to stay strong and not give in :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Interesting read gals, and a controversial subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/head-quarters/2015/may/11/the-professor-who-thinks-video-games-will-be-the-downfall-of-men-zimbardo

"Philip Zimbardo is worried that excessive gaming or porn watching is crippling masculinity. . .young men are playing video games to excess, and that they are using games as a form of extreme escapism from the worries and responsibilities of real life.

His new book – Man (Dis)connected – is essentially an update of ‘Demise’, and elaborates on the idea that certain aspects of modern technological life are becoming so much of a distraction for young men, that it’s impacting all walks of like - their academic abilities are dropping, they are struggling in forming successful social relationships, and their employment prospects are taking a hit."

In that article there, the author takes issue with the points this man is making in his book, and in the comments there, there are a lot of angry men defending themselves LOL.

However - it does signal that others, MANY others, in US society at least, are recognizing that there's a vast difference between what men used to be considered as opposed to what they're considered nowadays and what society expects of them (many seem to notice that a lot of modern men are failing on delivery).

Just a little food for thought. . .appears to be quite a controversial book/subject.

chk61 said...

Well, ladies. It's true what they say and what Mirror teaches. When a man is really "into" you, you don't have to wonder because he does make the time, he does stay in contact, he does try to see you as much as possible, and you do NOT have to pursue HIM. When a man is serious about a woman, he doesn't play games, he doesn't try to make you feel badly, he doesn't pull stunts and you don't have to wonder what is going on! I've been pursued vigorously by a man I met about a month ago, and we have been dating. Let me tell you, he is the exact opposite of the D.M. who brought me to this site. He is communicative, attentive, sincere, affectionate and it's a welcome change.

I do not feel insecure at all. I feel appreciated and he expresses his appreciation in a very warm way. He brought me flowers and it did not feel contrived or like he was trying to bed me, it felt genuine and the wonderful pungent scent is still filling my apartment after three days. He is actively courting me, holy cow, it does still happen. He insists on paying for dates. The good news is I am also attracted to him....although there are some things that definitely do not fit my image of the ideal mate/partner, it feels nice to not have to wonder how someone feels about me.

So after 8 years since my break up and two men I fell for who were "half-interested" and one was a classic D.M., it becomes clear that such men - men who wants to be the man, who want to court, who want to pursue - do exist. He's also 6 years younger (the D.M. was also 6 years younger) and he doesn't give a hoot at all, it's a non-issue.

As it has only been a month, I have no idea where this is headed but it feels really good to not be worrying and wondering, and to feel truly appreciated as a woman. So hang in there, ladies. Know your worth, don't put up with poor treatment or bad behavior, and who knows, a nice man may circle into your orbit! :-)

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