"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Dating a Disappearing Man, Reached Your Limit?

Dating a disappearing man that reappears periodically without notice, and after rudely disappearing on you without explanation, is certainly an experience that many modern day females can relate to.

This can be seen in the discussion of the topic on this piece titled “Disappearing/Reappearing Man: What to Do” which is no longer able to accept any further comments on the site as it’s reached the 5,000 limit.

Yep, I’d say a lot of you have been dating a disappearing man and have reached your limit. I’d go even further and say it’s a modern day dating epidemic. So what’s a girl to do?

Well, I won’t repeat the suggestions I’ve shared on that piece because you’re free to go there and study up on it. However, I will say that after a couple of years’ worth of discussion on dating a disappearing man, and after many thousands of personal stories shared there, it has become apparent to me that the best way to deal with a disappearing man who reappears periodically to dredge things up (before disappearing again) is to focus on yourself – and try your best to forget about him.


Probably not what you were expecting to hear, I understand that. There are very detailed suggestions listed in that article referenced above if you'd like to give it a try. But after a couple of years of observation and lots of discussion with women dating a disappearing man, it has become clear to me that when these types disappear on you, even if they circle back, it generally leads nowhere. And that’s not because there’s something wrong with you – it’s because there’s most likely something wrong with them.

Men who display this pattern of behavior generally do not correct it. I’m sure you’ve heard the old saying, “You can’t teach an old dog new tricks.” And the reality here is that we’re dealing with old dogs, ladies. Plain and simple – and they’re not learning any new tricks. They’re simply repeating the old ones over and over and over again for as long as they’re permitted to get away with it, which brings me to my next point.

People Can Only Treat You as Poorly as You LET Them


When we permit these patterns of behavior to play out in our lives over and over and over again, it should come as no surprise that the same outcome is simply repeated again as well. Yet it perplexes us. If he didn’t like me, why did he bother to come back? If he wanted nothing to do with me back then, why is he ringing my phone again now? It must mean he likes me. It must mean he’s at least slightly interested, right?

Yes, no, and maybe – for all the wrong reasons.

Is he interested in sex? Yes. Is he ready for a committed relationship? No. Has he hit a dry spell? Maybe. Either way you slice it, after a couple of years listening to stories from women out in the trenches dating a disappearing man, I can honestly tell you – I can’t think of one time, not one time, that it’s ever ended with “and they lived happily ever after.” I’ve read a ton of stories about women outgrowing their disappearing man (DM), or boring of him, or tiring of him, or meeting someone else in the 3 months it took him to make his 3rd reappearance. But no, in the 5,000 comments and stories shared, I’ve never heard a story that concluded with a “happily ever after” ending.

What I do hear is a lot of women beating themselves up, blaming themselves, wondering what’s wrong with them, questioning why he hasn’t called and asking when he will. And after a couple of years of researching this topic, I can stand here today and tell you – it’s definitely not you – it’s a modern day epidemic.

Behavior that was once considered abnormal is now slowly becoming the accepted norm. Hiding behind devices in texts and emails is making it even easier to transition society as a whole into the acceptance of this – accepting sociopathic behavior that displays no sense of remorse, guilt or empathy for the individual on the other end of the line. It’s easy to just disappear these days, because half the communication that existed in the first place existed in the virtual world, on a device screen, and not in real life. Gone are the days when you’d have to hold these discussions face to face. Nowadays, don’t like someone; don’t want to see them anymore? Hey, no problem, you’ll never have to speak to them again – just don’t answer any calls, emails or texts from them and voila’ – problem solved.

Throw in online dating and the endless buffet of easy opportunities there and what you end up with is a bunch of kids in a candy store, running around experiencing a fantastic sugar high that they never want to come down from. It builds the ego, it gives them something to brag to their buddies about, and they rarely, if ever, have to face any consequences for it. Hence, the birth of the disappearing man.

Ahh, utopia does exist after all, no?

The Mind Trip a Disappearing Man is Running on You


Many of these bad boy “players” are using a psychological tactic that they’re not even aware of (although some are VERY aware and well educated on the matter). They think they’ve got some magic sauce about them that women just can’t get enough of. But really, all they’ve done is stumbled onto a very real fact about the human psyche:


I just watched two men, both mid 30’s, on a reality television show the other night talking about women and dating - the issue at hand? One man had two great women on his hands. Sigh . . . problems, problems. Yet, he was patting himself on the back proudly about the fact that it was only two – which apparently is down from his usual norm of 8. Yea, you heard me, I said 8. And the other guy he was talking to didn’t blink an eye at that number.

So I think it’s safe to say – rotating 8 women at one time, misleading them all to think you’re “relationship ready”, talking about having babies and a future with them, and using them for sex until it’s time to move onto the next gal in your rotation – is apparently “the norm” in the lifestyle of many young modern males these days.

Should you hold your ground and level the playing field when dating a disappearing man that you sense has you locked into a rotation that he hasn’t exactly been honest about? Absolutely.

Should you hold your breath waiting for him to circle back around again? Don’t bother; it’ll be your turn again before you know it.

Should you pick up that phone or respond to that text when he does circle back around? Probably not – unless you want the first outcome to repeat itself a second time.

So What SHOULD You Do?


Forget having a “talk” with him and instead, do something constructive that will actually benefit YOU - and have that hard talk with yourself.

Ask yourself what it is that causes you to keep taking this man back. What is it that causes you to want to continue dating a disappearing man, despite already knowing that he’s not capable of making you happy or fulfilling your needs. Dig deep, because the answers don’t lie with him – they actually lie WITHIN you.

I repeat - people can only treat you as poorly as you LET them. If you do not permit people to act upon you, then you don’t get hurt, you don’t get used and you don’t let other people make you feel like crap over their shortcomings in life. You check their baggage at their door and you walk away into your future.

I’m not an overly religious individual, although I do consider myself spiritual – but when someone says something that is so very powerful it sends vibrations to your very core . . . then the message must be shared. Having said that, I’ll let Bishop T.D. Jakes take over from here:


“When people can walk away from you, let them walk. I don’t care how wonderful they are, I don’t care how attracted you are to them, I don’t care what they did for you 20 years ago, I don’t care what the situation is. When people can walk away from you, let them walk – because your destiny is not tied to the person who left.”

Can I get an AMEN, ladies!

Related Posts with Thumbnails

1096 Comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   601 – 800 of 1096   Newer›   Newest»
loretta said...

Hi everyone. Update on the dating scene. I swear, sometimes I think I'm cursed. So I had a lunch date with a lawyer guy who was really nice, lived close by in a great building on the lake. He asked me to come to dinner on Wednesday (last night.) I put together a little recipe and he bought the salmon. I brought over other thing to prepare. We prepared a great meal together, he is a great conversationalist, asks lots of questions, is a good listener....then he dropped the bomb.

He is being recruited for a very good job in Dallas, TX. He's going there soon for a final interview and feels confident he is going to get an offer. I was like, wow. I said I was very happy for him. (Hey, I have spent maybe 4 hours with this guy, I'm not too invested!) However, I was a bit put off that he would still be meeting women locally if he knew he wasn't going to live here much longer. I felt as though I was just keeping him entertained until he moved away. It was a nice time, but I see no reason to spend any more time with him. It would be wasting the opportunity to meet someone who isn't moving away in a month or so!

He was probably the best guy I met in 3 years! Uggh. too good to be true. Alas.

Casual Guy is keeping up with the communication responses. I don't bug him. He had to cancel tonight's writing meeting, but he did it really early in the day, as I requested, so I was able to schedule other things work related to do with my afternoon. I think I did put the fear of God in him when I vanished for 2 weeks.

Meantime, Beau no. 2 texted me about the weekend. I was noncommittal. I'm waiting (as MoA advises) for him to make a concrete plan with me. He's in the process of moving into a house nearby, but I did not offer to help. (I would have in days of yore. LOL). I am really busy and if he wants to take me out, great. If he wants me to come over and unpack boxes and make nookie on the hardwood floor, no thanks. haha

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 1, 1:53 PM,
"Am I on the right path?!? I'd like to believe so -- but even when I see the red flag and get out upfront, I am STILL not attracting better people. It is utterly frustrating."

I understand. And yes, loving yourself and respecting yourself does mean there will be time spent alone at different stages of life. But there IS a positive way to look at that.

People come into your life for different reasons. Ever hear the saying "People come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. When you figure out which one it is, you will know what to do for each person."

And I believe that many, if not most, of the people we meet - especially the ones that really don't treat us well - are actually teachers that are sent to us to teach us valuable life lessons. So that when the RIGHT one does come along, we are ready for them and we don't repeat our mistakes of the past. And the ones that treat us poorly tend to teach us two valuable lessons - 1) they teach us what we DON'T want and need, so that we are able to further drill down to what we DO want and need and 2) they teach us to love and value OURSELVES.

And this entire process is a life's journey. Meaning - the change that results from these experiences does not happen overnight, and the positive effects are not felt immediately. We meet the right ones when we're supposed to - when we're ready for them. And I believe the period before that is a period of learning for us, much like "school." So that through these experiences, we slowly learn and are guided towards becoming our "better" selves - displaying the best version of ourselves to the world for all others to see.

So I understand that yes, there will be frustration, and yes, there will be time spent alone. This is part of the "work" that's required for us to invest into ourselves. So when you are feeling the frustration - try to remember that this is all part of life's journey - a journey that's preparing you for what's to come ;-)

Gem50 said...

@ Loretta,
Regarding the Lawyer guy, it's good that you're saying, "neh'", but if you change your mind, I'd watch for a bit to see what happens. When I first met Scorpio he told me he was moving South, and he held that line throughout the time we were seeing each other (before he disappeared). I kept my feelings at arms distance because I believed he was moving, and it gave him free access to me with no strings. When he returned, he told me he's living with a woman, and there hasn't been any mention of moving South.

I'm still keeping him at arms length, and he no longer has free access to me. ;-)

I just met a guy from dating site this morning for coffee... I'll post on Ms. Mirror's Online piece about it.

gadawg said...

Ive been seriously dating a guy for almost nine months. Everything has been great. We've had an established relationship from the beginning (no games). He's always honest with me and I trust him completely. He is 37 and I am 41. He is divorced (for 6 years) with one child. I have never been married, no children. Anyway, last night he told me he is worried the relationship isn't progressing (on his end). He feels like he should be in love with me at this point and he isn't. He said he doesn't want to break up, but he also doesn't want to waste his time or mine. He's not one for casual dating. He feels like we should be moving forward if we are in a relationship. He says it's nothing I've done. He has no issues with me at all. He says he wants it to be in love with me, but he's not and he doesn't know why. What do I do with this? I know you can't force someone to love you, but do I just wait and see what happens? Do I break up with him? This information has me reeling. I feel like everything is going to be so awkward now and I will begin to pull away for fear of getting hurt. That is definitely not going to help matters.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@gadawg,
Well, I hate to say this but - he's right. He should be experiencing feelings after nine months.

However, not all is lost. Sometimes, when people know that someone they care for is always going to be there for them, they tend to take them for granted. And when that happens, feelings can be blocked.

So at this point, I say put him to the test.

Because you've already invested nearly a year into this and you're seeing no results. And I don't suggest sitting around waiting for a man to "pick" you. You have some say-so in this as well, and if this man isn't going to make you happy, and he's not experiencing feelings for you - then it's time to walk away from him. And when you do, this will mean no response and no contact whatsoever for at least 30 days.

Let me explain how this works.

He said it himself, he took some space to see if he was experiencing feelings. And it's a fact that men do "feel" during times of absence and NOT during times of togetherness necessarily, as women do. Think of it like swimming. Men will take a deep dive, and then they need to come up for air (space). And every time they come up for air, this is to touch base with their own feelings - to see if they're experiencing any.

He thinks that right now after a small break he's not experiencing any feelings, which is fine. BUT - there has not been a solid, long break. And in my opinion, that's truly what's needed sometimes to realize you care about someone. A true "end" is needed - meaning, it ends and POOF. . .this person who was always there, always answering your calls, always responding to your texts, always waiting on you - is suddenly no longer in your life at all or available to you in any of those capacities.

And that's when an "end" is truly felt - and that's also when any underlying feelings will suddenly bubble to the surface and be felt.

You can't miss someone when you know they're waiting on you and available to you and all it takes to reach them is a text or call. And you can't long for someone when you're in contact with them. So in order to see if there are truly any feelings - you have to NOT be there - AT ALL. Once he experiences a true "end" and you're no longer there, no longer talking or responding to him, and he's forced to experience the consequences for his decision. . .that will put him and any possible feelings to a true test.

And this 30 day break will also help you tremendously. It will help you to detach emotionally from him, so that you can balance yourself and "check in" with your own feelings as well. Because sometimes it's not the individual that we're in love with - it's the IDEA of love in general. The fantasy that is held in the mind, and not the reality that is standing in front of us.

When a man you're seriously dating for a long length of time suddenly says "I just want to be friends" - you do NOT accommodate him on that. You do not settle for less than you deserve. Instead, there's a consequence for a decision like that and that consequences is - no access to you whatsoever. And when you do this, when you completely fall off the face of the earth in this persons life, if they have any feelings for you whatsoever - they WILL experience them at that time.

Your goal here for the next 30 days is this:

1) You need to disappear without a word or any explanation.

2) You need to not respond at all whatsoever to ANY contact he attempts within these 30 days.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

3) You want this absence to be seriously felt by him. You want him to experience a true "end" to this relationship as a consequence of his decision. You want to be so far away from him that suddenly, he starts to long for you. He starts to miss you being there all the time for him. He starts to think about you non-stop, wondering why you're not answering, wondering what you're doing, who you're with and what you're thinking. You want him to become a bit anxious and worried over this disappearance of yours. You want him to start reaching out, questioning you and attempting to get you to respond (but you're not going to until the 31st day). And you want these 4 weeks of silence to drive him mad with passion to get this relationship back.

That's how 30 days of no contact works psychologically. Generally speaking, people always want what they cannot have. When something (you) is available in abundance to people (him), they tend to take it for granted and place a low value on it. However, when something is scarce (you), people (him) tend to place a high value on it and seek it out. In economics this is referred to as the Law of Scarcity.

Your goal for the next 30 days is to make yourself scarce ;-)

And after these 30 days, you'll have your answer - and so will he. IF he has any deep feelings whatsoever for you, they WILL be felt during this period. They will surface and he will experience them. And on the 31st day, you can respond to him and when he asks what's been going on for the last 4 weeks, you simply say "I needed some space to process my feelings because when you told me you had none, I needed to check in with myself to see if I had any."

As a man, he will understand that - because it's exactly what he was doing during the time away he just took.

IF he does not have any deep feelings, well then. . .he won't experience any and he probably won't reach out. But either way, come the 31st day - the relationship has been put to the test, and everyone's cards are now out on the table. The truth will be known and if the truth is that he does not have deep feelings towards you - then you are free to move on, and after a 30 day detachment, you'll be emotionally stronger and better prepared to.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@gadawg,
Apologies - I just realized I crossed your story with another I'm currently reviewing that was extremely similar. In the other story, the man took a small break. And I realize now that that did not happen in your situation.

However, I stand behind what I wrote. Break taken, or no break taken, the same still applies. He's making a decision here and there's a consequence for it. Take some space, give him some space, and both of you touch base with your feelings. Don't sit around waiting to be "picked" by a man - put him to the test and take some space here for yourself to do the same. Because as I stated before, if there are any deep feelings at all - space is what will bring them to the surface.

gadawg said...

Thank you for your response. My BF and I work together, so it will be difficult to do 30 days of NC, but luckily there is a period of about three weeks coming up where he will be out of town. I will start NC during this time. My only pause is cutting off communication with no explanation. I don't feed its fair to do that after a nine month relationship. Would it be ok to tell him that there will be no contact for the three weeks he is gone?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@gadawg,
"Would it be ok to tell him that there will be no contact for the three weeks he is gone?"

But - if you tell him what you're going to do - then it kinda' defeats the purpose of doing it.

Because the psychological affect that "disappearing" has is intended to draw his feelings for you to the surface by forcing him to experinece an "end." Because if someone knows you're sitting there waiting on them, and you'll be there again in 3 weeks. . .they're not going to worry that they've lost you. And if they don't think they've lost you, they're not going to review any feelings they may have for you, because those feelings won't surface.

What forces someone to discover they have feelings for you, when they actually think they dont - is for the person to think it's over - and that they've lost you. You've heard the old saying, "Don't know what you've got, till it's gone."

If he doesn't think you're gone - and he knows he'll talk to you in 3 weeks - he won't be forced to review any feeling he may have for you.

I understand this may sound harsh, but you need to understand that this man just told you he may not have feelings for you :-(

You're not required to accommodate a man that's on the fence about you, ya' know?

And you're not required to think of him, when he's not even sure how he feels about you. If you're too nice to someone that's unsure about you, they'll take it for granted that you'll always be there, willing and waiting, no matter how they treat you - and they'll lose respect for you as a result because you're accepting poor treatment from them.

So be very mindful of not getting caught in the "too nice" trap - because it IS a trap, and it CAN backfire on you. If a man thinks you're too nice, and too willing, and too accommodating. . .he can tend to treat you poorly and take you for granted. And if he can get away with that, many times men will start to treat a woman like that like the proverbial "door mat" that they wipe their feet on.

He's told you he's unsure if he has deep feelings for you - so at this point, all bets are OFF.

You can't make a man that's unsure if he cares for you a priority. You can't be extremely nice to him anymore. You can't rearrange your life for him and accommodate him or place his feelings into consideration. . .because he's just told you he's unsure if he has any FOR YOU.

Does that make sense?

When someone says that to you - it's almost the equivalent of breaking up with you. You need to see the storm heading towards you (a possible break up that's on it's way) and you need to be prepared for that. You need to change your actions and your treatment of him as a result.

I'm not trying to make you sad here, but I am trying to get you to prepare for what may, or may not, be on it's way. What he's told you is BIG - don't dismiss it, don't minimize it, don't give him the benefit of doubt. . .and don't be "nice" anymore.

Because if you do that - you might be unable to protect yourself properly for what may come. Understand that what he's said means there might be "bad" things to come - so start to position yourself for that now, sooner rather than later :-(

gadawg said...

Thank you for your advice. It's going to be so hard. I'm so sad right now. I hope I can do this and I hope it works.

loretta said...

@gadawg - I second Mirror's advice to not warn him in advance of your disappearing from his radar. I had a similar situation (not exactly), where I cut off contact without notice for about 2 weeks from a guy I dated and had been working with for over a year. He flaked out on me after reigniting a little romance with me after I had "friend zoned" him for almost 6 months. The last conversation we had before I went POOF, he thought I was going to meet him on the following Monday. He called, I let it roll into voice mail, and then went silent for 2 weeks. I could have gone a lot longer, but something came up of which I felt necessary to inform him, so I forwarded him an email. He replied to that email in record-breaking time. I went back over there a few days later, and he was Mr. Nice Guy. He's remained very accommodating and consistent since. I'm not saying he is going to be romantically attracted to me now (although it's possible), but he sure did get a taste of what it was like to be ignored for 2 weeks; and I assure you, he did not like it. In fact, it scared him.

If you want the biggest impact, don't warn this guy. Act like everything is peachy keen before he leaves, then POOF. He will initiate contact and you will ignore it. He may initiate it some more, and you will ignore it. No matter what, don't reply to any emails, texts or phone calls. He will either blow it off and feel relief (the outcome you may not like, but it saves you all sorts of time), or he will have second thoughts. Let him stew for at least those 3 weeks he is gone. When he comes back, you'll be able to tell from how much he tried to contact you during the NC period, or how angry/hurt/changed he behaves. Either way, you'll have your answer.

When/If he comes back wanting to warm things up again, play it cool. Don't jump all over any invitations. Be busy, be nonchalant. That will make him act. He'll ask you out, or want to get together and talk.

Casual Guy was even nicer to me the next time I went over there, and he has been really good about answering emails or answering the phone when I have to get in touch. We have very short phone calls, and I don't call to chat. I call with information. I never text him. Texting is for idiots.

gadawg said...

@Mirror @loretta

I understand where you are coming from regarding not warning him before NC, I just feel that my situation is different. We are not casually dating, we are in a serious relationship. There have never been any games, he has never disappeared on me. As a matter of fact, up until our conversation, he has been an amazing boyfriend. We also work very closely together, so if the NC ends up pissing him off it could cause a real problem at work. I'm all for NC, but not telling him seems like a game. He was just being honest with me the other night, not trying to play games or be cruel. Maybe I should just break up with him before he leaves; that way I can do NC the way you have both advised.

Please don't misunderstand, I appreciate the advice and I know it sounds like I'm just making excuses, but I just feel like putting it into practice this way is not ideal in my situation.

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

I wanted to give you some feedback on my trip to see the Dalai Lama a few weeks back. It was a beautiful day and it was nice not to go to this particular stadium for a 'Concert'.

One thing which will stay with me forever about the Dalai Lama is his glow and his laugh. Even at 80 years old, there was something about him that just radiated from inside. He opened the talk laughing about how people had come to see 'him' talk, almost as if we must have been a little crazy to think that we thought he was someone worth listening too. He has a terrific sense of humour and reminded me to make use of mine more often.

It was very funny and we all laughed, but it showed his humility and emphasised that he was still a mere human being like the rest of us.

He talked about peace. I found this very interesting, he said that even in this day and age, people still did not have peace. Even with our education system, material possessions like we have never had before and advances in medicine people were still not happy. Our world was basically out of balance.

We are obviously missing something. Our connections were to the wrong things and something we needed to address with priority.

He talked about beauty in woman. About how this came from within and not externally. My friend leaned over at this point and said "I wish guys would recognise this'

Ms Mirror, I must confess there was not much that the Dalai Lama talked about that I hadn't heard before.
So I find it hard to recall what he actually said.

I will however treasure this, being in his presence made me feel good, really good. How did he achieve this?
Well he smiled and he laughed and some 'feel good' factor just oozed out of him.

I don't know anyone who has had that effect on me in a long time. When he was heckled by a lady in crowd about some of the Tibetan politics, he handled it well and with grace and never lost his temper.

That for me is what I will take away. His composure. His honesty. To remind me that all the answers and knowledge are right in front of us. How to react when we are faced with hostility.

It's his 'being' that will stay with me.

Best Wishes Lottie x



The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Lottie,
Isn't it wonderful to be around a "steady" presence?

One that is calm, one that is eternally composed, one that remains in a constant state of grace, and one that doesn't take themselves too seriously - that is the essence of true "being."

Living with "peace of mind" and tranquility being the focused priority ;-)

Lottie said...

Ms Mirror,

You nail it. Exactly. That most certainly should be our priority. That is pure happiness and no amount of money in the world buys it.

Oh..how I aspire to that Ms Mirror. :)

Lottie x

loretta said...

@gadawg - I read a book not long ago that was called "Reverse Ultimatum" and it discusses the way you handle a situation like the one you describe. If you want this man to have second thoughts or realize how he feels about you - if he, in fact, feels about you as seriously as you hope - you have to walk away.

If you don't want to do No Contact, just break up with him instead. That will serve the same purpose. He will now have to live with his decision to blow hot and cold with you. He'll have to live with the consequences of you saying, No, this isn't what I want. Have a nice life.

Be willing to walk away, and stay away if he doesn't come back with a serious intention. That will be hard at first, and you should do the No Contact for that three weeks regardless, if for no other reason than to get your head together and balance your emotions. You shouldn't have to put your job at risk. Incidentally, it's always a bad idea to date someone at work, but who am I to judge! I did it once about 30 years ago. Bad idea.

As Mirror has advised here hundreds of times, have the strength and dignity to walk away. That gives you your power back. Don't wait for him to give you the axe! Give it to him first.

Anonymous said...

From Huge Fan

Dear Mirror , I can't do the dance, it's the hardest thing ever and is driving me crazy. I texted back 'hello' after waiting 3 days as I figured if he can disspear for weeks then he needs to know I'm not a push over. When I responded he texted back 45 mins later . I left it 5 hours to reply . Then he responded only the next day. I left it a day to respond also mirroring him. I didn't ask a question in my last text. But he hasn't tried to keep the conversation going. It's been over a day with no response from him . I'm feeling that he's not interested . If he contacts again do I reply in an hour or leave it for days again . I can't live on edge like this. What's he playing at? He obviously must have other girls occupying him. I think it's clear he's not serious about re establishing things what do you think ?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Huge Fan,
"If he contacts again do I reply in an hour or leave it for days again."

The choice is yours - you're armed with enough information to make a wise decision ;-)

"I can't live on edge like this. . .I think it's clear he's not serious about re establishing things"

Well, if you can't live like this - then why are you?

Meaning, you have a choice, and you have control over what you experience - if someone is not bringing you happiness, and they're only causing you anxiety and worry. . .you can choose to walk away from them.

People can only treat you as poorly as you let them, ya' know?

So if this man isn't making you happy, and you feel like you're living on the edge - you can choose not to wait around for him and instead - walk away from him ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,
I need advise from you regarding my situation. I met a guy online and we meet and dated 3 times during my vacation in Europe. He said that he was looking for long term relationship. He also knew from the very beginning that I'm going home in a month. He said that he likes me and he feels so comfortable with me and he thinks he's inlove. I didn't believe that he's inlove because we just met. On our third date we kissed and I reminded him that I only have 2 weeks left. He said that he's gonna visit me. We planned to go to his place the day after our third date. My cousin where I am staying wants to meet him on that same day and he agreed but he cancelled it last minute. He said that he's not feeling well. On that week I felt that he was so distant so I sent him a message saying that I like him a lot and I feel that he's distant and I would appreciate his honesty. I only got a reply that he can't talk because he's busy. I didn't message him for a week. I sent him a last message asking what's going on? whatever it is I respect it. I got a message from him after 4 days. He said that he miss me, he wants to spend time with me and he wants to see me. I replied that I miss him too and told him we can meet in the morning. In the morning I already have prepared but I got a message from him that he can't come. He said that he was not able to sleep because he was thinking the whole night if this will work out and will we ever see again once I got back home. I asked him if we can talk in person but he said he needs time. I never heard from him since then. I already got back home and it's almost a month that we didn't message each other. I can see him online on whatsapp. I really like him and I been wanting to message him to ask how is he, but I'm afraid he won't reply and I would feel rejected again. We are both an Aquarius by the way.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA.I need your advice.The guy that i've dated for 2 months stop texting me.We are not exclusive yet.When we see each other i felt that he is into me.He mostly initiated the text then i just replied.Last week he went out of town.I noticed that he stop contacting me for 5 days so i texted him.He just then replied.After that no more contact.It's 9 days now i haven't heard from him but see him still online in dating site.I am thinking maybe he is dating others.What should i do?Is he losing interest in me or is he waiting for me to initiate contact to see if i am interested in him?Is he playing mind games to see my reaction and why wasting time doing this kind of thing?

I think i gave him all the green lights and let him pursue me.Also i noticed that till now he didn't ask for my last name.Also he likes to text and never call if i don't ask him.We never had a small talk on the phone unless if he is going to set up a date.I developed feelings for him now coz every time i am with him it feels good and we compliment each other.He has gone out from a 2 years relationship when we started seeing.He is a taurus guy.

What should i do mirror?Do i have to send him one text to see if he still interested or i have to move on?I don't understand why a man can do this after two months of dating (7dates).Do you think a guy would reach out even if he is shy or not sure if i am interested or not?Thanks a lot Ms.Mirror .I am looking forward for your reply.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA. You are so spot on with your advice. I posted on Sept 25th that my DM reappeared. I should have remained silent, but it had been 6 months so I caved thinking he would apologize. I went out to dinner with him and he did not apologize or anything. He did ask about this guy he knew I was dating, but I told him that guy and I are friends because I am not dating him anymore. He knew from someone else I went out with this guy. It is funny though at dinner we were talking about the trips we went on during the summer and I told him I wanted to take my kids to the Bahamas next summer. He said we should do that as a family trip. I blew right by that comment. I kick myself now because I should have called him out on that. Why would he make a comment like that ? To see my reaction? How can we go on a family trip when the guy pulls a disappearing act all the time. It has now been 2 weeks since we went to dinner and I have not heard a word from him. He did text the next day and said he had fun and hoped I did too, but nothing since. He tried to hold my hand that night, but I didn't. I was thinking to myself that we aren't just picking up where we left off. Was this the right thing to do and act? You were right in that he was acting casually and that he would poof again.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 12, 7:34 AM,
"The guy that i've dated for 2 months stop texting me. . .What should i do?"

NEVER reward poor treatment with more of your time and attention. If you do that, then you are signaling that a man can treat you as poorly as they want and you'll still be there, no matter what, showering them with attention.

Instead, issue a CONSEQUENCE for that type of treatment - and that consequence is. . .no access to you, whatsoever - no contact, and NO RESPONSE:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/dating-when-why-how-use-no-contact-rule.html

"is he waiting for me to initiate contact to see if i am interested in him?"

It's not necessary to remind a man that you exist. He doesn't need to see if you're interested in him - you've already been dating him for 2 months. If you weren't interested in him, you wouldn't have dated him for 2 months.

"i noticed that till now he didn't ask for my last name."

WHAT?? You've dated this man for 2 months. . .and he never even bothered to ask your full name? If a man doesn't show any genuine interest in truly getting to know you - then HE is NOT WORTH any more of your time and effort to get to know him.

That's rude, ignorant - and signals that he genuinely doesn't care unfortunately :-(

Drop this guy like a hot potato and NEVER look back. He's not in this for a relationship, he's in this for a brief fling and some free sex - and then he's going to disappear, just like he already did.

"Do you think a guy would reach out even if he is shy or not sure if i am interested or not?"

Absolutely - men go after what they desire, and most times, nothing can stop them.

"Do i have to send him one text to see if he still interested"

No way - it doesn't matter if HE is interested in YOU or not. With the way he's treated you, never even asking your full name. . .HE should be worried about whether or not YOU are still interested in HIM.

Dump this guy immediately - he's out to use people. Don't let that be you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
This is too funny not to share, 62 Reasons Why He is Not Texting You Back:

http://elitedaily.com/dating/reasons-he-isnt-texting-you/1241962/

#12 - He is jerking off.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Oct 12, 10:50 AM,
"Why would he make a comment like that ? To see my reaction?"

Yep - he was trying to gauge where your feelings concerning him were at.

"How can we go on a family trip when the guy pulls a disappearing act all the time."

A lot of talk like that can be looked at as what one guy I dated years ago termed "fun talk" after I called him out on it. He wasn't serious at all - it was for sh*ts and giggles - or "fun" as he called it - like daydreaming and fantasizing. Which, by the way, men spend a better part of their day doing - fantasizing LOL ;-)

You can't take talk like that seriously, unless it quickly followed up by ACTION. Otherwise, it's fantasy that's somehow sneaking out of their head and into their mouths.

"It has now been 2 weeks since we went to dinner and I have not heard a word from him. He did text the next day and said he had fun and hoped I did too, but nothing since. He tried to hold my hand that night, but I didn't. I was thinking to myself that we aren't just picking up where we left off. Was this the right thing to do and act?"

Yep - you can't take a man seriously - that isn't acting serious about dating you.

If all he does is swoop in once in a while and spew a bunch of flowery "fantasy" talk and then expects to be rewarded for it (by physical closeness) when it's convenient for him, without any thought of how this yo-yo act of his is affecting you - then he's simply a man dating casually and when it suits him, he plays the part. And when it doesn't suit him, he disappears.

And for that - he gets the same kind of sporadic treatment in return. If it suits you to hold his hand, then you will. But if it doesn't, then you won't. If it suits you to go to dinner with him, then you will. But if it doesn't, then you won't. You don't have to be consistent or reliable with a man that isn't consistent or reliable towards you ;-)

Anonymous said...

@ Ladies @Ms Mirror

Just wanted to share a story I heard today. This guy was talking about how he feared commitment and how he had got into one night stands in a big way and as soon as a girl made demands on him he would run for the hills! However, he met this girl recently in a bar and they went back to her flat and had sex.

Anyhow the next day she had to go to work and she left him this note saying 'thanks for a great night see yourself out' it did make me chuckle but I'm not advocating the one -night stand

but the funny thing is the effect that it had on the guy and he said that she was different and more than that - he thought she was the one!

I'm not saying that one-night stands are the way to go at all but it just goes to show that the pull push method that Ms Mirror talks about is so true!

Anonymous said...

"Dump this guy immediately - he's out to use people. Don't let that be you."

Thank you Mirror.You are right he is for a brief fling.Good that it's not late yet.My gut tells me now that he disappeared to search for an "easy prey" and i was not that,indeed.You are brilliant Mirror ! I like reading your blog when i have time.It's very useful specially in terms of finding the right man.Thanks for helping all the ladies here. :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Mirror. Why do men do all of that flowery talk? I guess to see how we will react and try to get what they want I suppose? I feel that is what he is doing just swooping in when he needs something and then gone thereafter. He needed a date for the wine thing because all of his friends have someone, but this is the exact reason I didn't go. It just feels like he is using me for a date and then it makes his friends think that everything is fine between us, but In reality he is never around. Maybe he is trying to make an appearance like he has something. Who knows. My birthday is coming up in a few weeks. I just thing I need to pull a Houdini on him again. I think I need to ignore until a real apology comes from him. I thought he would do that at dinner that night. I could have called him out on it, but it really isn't worth my energy anymore. Do you agree? Thanks again for all you do for us :)

Anonymous said...

So as I'm reading this, my DM sends me a text. After I've been NC with him for over two months (you were right MOA. LOL). He says "Just wanted to say Hello". Ha Ha Ha. I laugh because after over two months of not seeing me or hearing from me, the best he can do is "Hello". How about "I haven't heard from you in a while, are you ok?" Or maybe I'm asking for too much. Needless to say, I will NOT be responding to this text. He needs to do better.

chk61 said...

hi ladies:

Just checkin' in. FYI my current man is not disappearing. Just passed the 6 month mark. He is wonderful in so many ways but of course, it's not perfect. He is fun, romantic, giving, constantly complimenting me and wants to be with me as much as possible. He makes me laugh. He's a goofball. I'm attracted to him. He will be there if I need help and he is very emotionally open and expressive, unlike any other man I've been with. Yes, there are things that bug me but that will happen with anyone.

He's a true artist, in a cold corporate world that doesn't really give a sh*t about art or music unless it will make the stockholders a lot of money.

He was not raised to save. His family should be extremely wealthy but his dad who was a prominent figure was a high flyer, living for the moment. They had a luxurious lifestyle and apparently did not invest or save. Without going into details, there is no money left. It is an uncomfortable topic but I don't think he has any savings and it doesn't look like he will inherit anything. I pray he does not have a lot of debt. I think his mom may be helping him but I don't know for sure. I have denied myself luxury my entire life as I knew there was no inheritance for me, and I did not want to be old and stressed out about money. I have lived WAY beneath my means in order to save the amount I have. I will not get a pension. My dream was to find a partner to combine assets, build a comfortable home and enjoy relaxation and travel before my body falls apart (it's already started!). ;-)

He knows (he saw a website I had open with my retirement savings) I have a good chunk of cash. I told him very early on I was not interested in supporting him.

I am worried about his future prospects for work. He is a very talented musician but the music business has been and is still undergoing dramatic changes. It is difficult for any musician, even an extremely talented songwriter, to make money now. He also had a serious health challenge that put him out of commission for about 4 years. He is just getting his feet wet. He does not seem capable of a corporate job (like many musicians he's a night owl) nor does he have a college degree (dropped out in his senior year!).

I'm trying to decide if I am getting in trouble the longer I stay with him. I will be giving up my dream of a comfortable retirement if he is unable to find work. I also know I'll probably grow to resent the situation which will not be good. If I was a multi-gazillionaire I would not care but that is NOT the case!

Yet, I know what would happen if I broke up with him. I'd have to go back to online dating. Ugh. I might end up alone. I would miss him deeply. He's a kind, sweet soul. He lost his faithful dog a couple of months ago and is still in mourning. We have had talks about his situation. He tells me I need to have faith in him and that "Rome wasn't built in a day". He seems confident something will happen for him but I am a practical sort and feel at his age the odds are stacked against him.

My sister (who had a house provided to her via her marriage and is now divorced) says "why doesn't he just get a job?" He is not cut out for a desk job 9-6. We aren't all made to be corporate machines. He had a good run in the music business for about 20 years but it fell apart due to changes in the industry and his own medical issues. And he did not save enough.

Other friends say: "does he make you laugh? Is he kind? Does he make you feel good? Can you count on him?" The answer to all these things is "yes". I do love him but I don't like having this amount of worry at 6 months. I also fear he will be judged by my peers/family for not being established at his age. I'm leaving out some details. Thanks for listening all, and if you have any comments I'm all ears!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@chk61,
"I do love him but I don't like having this amount of worry at 6 months."

The worry you are taking on. . .is not YOURS. Recognize that you're worrying for HIM unnecessarily :-)

Your future is fine, and it won't be affected by him. Whether you're with him or not, you've got yourself covered. You're not required to house him, and you're not required to marry him. Sure, we'd all like to combine assets with an equal - but life doesn't always provide outcomes for our best case scenarios.

You've got yourself covered, and that's all that matters.

And even if you DID meet a man with equal assets and plan to settle down with him and grow old with him, there's is absolutely no guarantee that would happen anyway. People change, situations change, feelings change - and divorce happens after 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years - 35 years. Stuff happens and nothing is a guarantee.

You could meet that equal you expect to meet, you could marry him, and you could plan to be set with a comfortable lifestyle as a result. . .until the day comes that you find out he's been cheating on you for 3 years, or he's started verbally abusing you, or he's decided he no longer wants to be married.

In the end, the only thing you can ever count on - is YOURSELF. And you're covered, so there are no worries ;-)

"I also fear he will be judged by my peers/family for not being established at his age."

Who cares? They've not walked a mile in his shoes. Besides - he WAS established for 20 years.

Again, stuff happens - life happens - and there are no guarantees. There are literally tens of thousands of people out there who thought their future was set, and that they were established. . .only to have lost a job after 30 years, finding themselves too old to compete with new, younger millennial talent. . .and they ended up working at Home Depot as a result.

They didn't expect to be working at Home Depot after a 30 year run in corporate America. But it is what it is.

Keep it all in perspective, and all will be well ;-)

Gem50 said...

@Chk61,
Don't worry about other people's opinions of your man. Not only are they not walking in his shoes as Ms. Mirror says, they also aren't walking in yours.

Yes it would be nice to be with someone who is able to lift our financial life, but money is not what makes a man or a woman. As long as you don't feel a threat from him trying to sponge off of you, then just keep taking care of yourself and enjoy what the two of you have with each other. ;-)

I suspect we've had similar feelings about this. I have come to realize and accept that I am not attracted to the suit/tie guy (and the type of men they usually are). Rather I'm attracted, feel most comfortable and enjoy the laborer; the man who works with his hands, gets dirty, creates -- and if he's singing to himself while he is working, it's a wonderful bonus ;-). Those guys often don't make a lot of money, and I've heard the same reactions from my friends and family, usually with a "WHAT??" and, "I wouldn't think that you would like that kind of guy."

Being financially set means that you are able to pick a man based on your choice not on your financial need. Or, think of it as, the hard work of your past was not only to take care of yourself financially, it also gave you the gift to make these kinds of choices.

Go with your gut girl. All that matters is you and him.

Hugs

chk61 said...

Thanks Mirror and Gem50:

As I mentioned, I left out a few details. I think there is some motivation lacking on his part to find work. And I think he'd be happy to have me house him...I have been looking at possibly buying property and he seemed hurt and surprised when I said he would not be able to move in with me, because he is in no position to financially contribute. He made a comment like that was "sexist" and indicating if it was the other way around, of course he would provide a home for me. Good point. He knows I could provide for him and I think this is making him less anxious about finding work and making an income.

I would resent him over time if I had to support him, because he has blown money on luxury items in the past, and likes to "live well" but the problem is - he cannot afford it! He was raised with shopping at Neiman Marcus, limousines hired by clients of his dad picking he and his mother up, designer clothes, etc. So there is a disconnect as currently he is no position to buy ANYthing! He doesn't shop at the present moment but my fear is he may take after his dad and if some money came in, he would spend it on stuff he wants. He told me that if we ever did live together, he would be fine with me controlling the money.

The problem is, I don't want the job of having to worry about money as I age. I don't want to work until I fall apart and I scrimped, saved and lived in a tiny apartment so I could relax and have a higher standard of living when I was older. I live in one of the most expensive areas in the country so doing it all alone is not easy.

So it's kind of a catch-22. Musicians, artists, etc are wonderful, creative, dynamic people but when it comes down to practical matters of life, it can be really tough. At least men who work their hands: laborers, carpenters, etc....may not make a lot of money but I think work may be easier to come by.

I know it's not good to worry about other people's opinions but when your family is tacitly not approving your choice of a partner, it can be difficult. They haven't come right out and said it but men are judged harshly when it comes to their wallets. The first question is: what does he do? Where does he work? How does he pay his rent? My nephew even asked: "what kind of a car does he drive?" Ridiculous. But this is the way of the world.

And I am not feeling that relaxed especially when I am not with him, I am worrying about all of this stuff instead of looking forward to the future. It is OK when we are together, enjoying the moment and laughing.

Ok, thanks for listening.... gotta run. Thanks again for your helpful comments, ladies!

Anonymous said...

@chk61
Hi, you haven´t written for a while so it´s nice to hear from you:-) I would like to share my opinion. I am in a similar situation - being single with the average or nowadays even under-average salary (I think am talented for my job, mostly happy doing it, so I have hardly ever considered changing it just because of money), I have always had to save and so my ideal is a partner who earns a regular "men´s" salary so that I wouldn´t have to worry about our financial security and in the best possible case cóuld afford more than while being single. I am not so much into material things but I would like to experience at least some of the benefits many women take for granted. So I absolutely understand you. On the other hand, you already know well what it means to find a good man. Not only good but also interested. And every relationship has its challenges, doesn´t it? As for your man´s financial situation - are you sure he won´t inherit anything? And what would he do if he hadn´t met you? Would he change anything about his situation? I think that at the end of the day what bothers you most is the dynamics of the relationship - you expect him to provide you with some security (or at least not to threaten yours and I think it´s absolutely normal for a woman) and he seems to expect the same of you (perhaps only subconsciously). So as I see it if you want to succeed, both of you will have to change your expectations in that you will have to continue relying entirely on yourself and he will have to learn to take more responsibilty for his expenses and income. So it´s mainly his problem, you can´t solve it for him and if you refuse to provide for him, you are right in my opinion and in a way you are helping him. Regarding your friends and relatives, I wouldn´t be internally concerned about their opinions because as Mirror writes, they haven´t walked in your shoes. However, their opinions might worry you not so much because you wish for their approval but rather because you fear they might be right. Overall, it´s very difficult to give advice in this situation as we don´t know all the details. E.g. when you express your worries to your partner, does he depreciate them or does he take them into consideration and at least start thinking about making some changes? You write you don´t feel relaxed in this position so maybe if he took your concerns more seriously, your feelings would change and you would feel safer? Perhaps it´s not so much about money as about your feeling of security with him. I am just guessing though. In any case, you seem to be very happy with him although not financially secure but maybe with a rich man you would feel financially secure but emotionally insecure?
Good luck to you both:-)
And best wishes to Mirror, Gem and all the ladies:-)
Hopeful

loretta said...

@chk61 - Here is the real issue: RESPECT. This relationship is young (6 mos?) and after awhile it's clear you won't respect him if he doesn't make something of himself. If you lose respect for him, you may as well call the whole thing off. You will be the "man" in the relationship and he will be the female, and you will hate it.

I wouldn't date an artist, writer, musician (I am all three) who didn't have gainful employment. I wouldn't respect them. I already had two relationships (one including a marriage) where I was the breadwinner, and both failed. I could not feel attracted to them when they weren't reliable financially. Not just for me and their children, but for the principle.

Gem50 said...

@Chk61

It sounds like there is a lot of stuff churning for you girl.

hugs.

chk61 said...

@Hopeful: thank you for your thoughts. I have asked him what would he be doing if he had not met me. That conversation hasn't been fruitful because he feels like I'm testing him. He did undergo a major health challenge that put him out of commission for about 4 years. So he's just getting back on his feet for several months but I do feel if he had not met me right out of the gate, he would be more aggressive about finding work or figuring out what he is going to do to support himself. I have actually found him some work or given him leads which I don't mind doing but I don't want to take on the "mother" role, he needs to pound the pavement more himself. He is not established here as he lived across the country for many years and I fear his age and situation will make it much more difficult for him. You are correct: it is his problem. When I express my worries, he tells me I have to have faith in him. He tells me he would have faith in me if our roles were reversed. True, I think women expect some security and this is certainly how I was raised. As to whether or not he will inherit anything, I suppose it is possible he could inherit something from his mother (who has a mortgage at age 79) but it would not be much; his father has nothing.

@Loretta: I totally understand and this is how I have always felt. Yet, I have never had a relationship where I felt so loved, supported and desired...and I'm 54. Do I break up with him and continue to try to find that (needle in a haystack), in addition to physical and intellectual chemistry and a great sense of humor? I suppose it is possible but I tried - with a couple heartbreaks and several unappealing internet dates - for 8 years after my break-up. Tough one.

I suppose I can just continue to "date" him and just take care of myself, let him take care of himself and let the chips fall where they may. As Mirror pointed out, there are no guarantees in any situation. I do know of several older couples that live separately and seem to do OK. Most of these women own homes and the men are renters (some the product of divorce). Nothing wrong with renting, I'm one but I do plan to buy something soon. Yet we know if there was a crisis, most likely the man would be moving into the woman's house.

@Gem50: thanks for your support!

chk61 said...

hi Ladies:

Just wanted to you know that my D.M. - the one who brought me to find this wonderful site - has re-appeared! You may recall that he invited me to a party at his home a year ago. I attended and found myself in the company of his ex-wife, his current girlfriend, and a few ex-girlfriends (there were some men in attendance!). Anyway, I brought a male friend and survived it fine. Did not hear from D.M. until this past June when I had a birthday. He sent me a very brief Happy Birthday email to which I responded a few days later, no response from him.

And last night I just received an invitation to his annual bash (he has had it several years now in a row)!

No, this time I'm NOT going. I don't think my current boyfriend would be too keen on the idea. ;-)

Lottie said...

I remember when you mentioned the party last year CHK61. It's so odd isn't it?

I really want to climb inside his head and see what fantasy world he is living in. What guy would invite someone to a bash, with whom he has kept little or no channels of communication open with?

Has not asked how you are or what you have been up to, but would happily invite you to his annual birthday bash. This is very peculiar behaviour indeed.

The invite almost reminds me of the spam email you get inviting you to some marketing event. Although addressed to you, they have some of the facts, but you are a name they pulled off a database somewhere.

You are worth so much more.

I'm really glad you have met someone, Chk61. He certainly sounds like a guy who is above all of this.

Ms Mirror - the essence of what was written in the last 50 posts will still live on.
Best wishes to you and everyone.

Lottie x

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror
Wanted a bit of advice about a guy I was seeing, I know I shouldn't care anymore but just in case it happens in the future.
I went out with a guy a few times and he came down to my area back in April we went to the cinema and had a fun time and he got in touch a few days later saying he had a great time and we arranged stuff to do next time we meet up.
We kept in touch still for a few weeks him intiating mostly,and one time he texted me and he ignored me.
So I left it for a week or so and then texted him again and he ignored me again.
Then a week later he was tagged on Facebook that he has got into a new relationship.
I mean I don't understand how he got into one that quickly?
We used whatsapp when we texted each other but he has never deleted me.
Isn't that the first thing a guy would do if he was into somebody else,block or delete me, I don't understand why he would want me into his contacts if he doesn't like me?

chk61 said...

@Lottie, I agree.....observing his behavior is very interesting. Observing anyone's strange behavior is very interesting! Lately I find myself getting better at stepping back when people I know act in an odd or unpleasant way, and observing, not attaching any meaning or thinking it has anything to do with me, which leaves my peace of mind intact. Sometimes I still fall prey to thinking another person's odd or off-putting behavior is related to ME....but usually it has nothing to do with me (unless of course, I acted in an egregious way with that person). What people do, say, feel really has to do with THEM. I'm just tired, at my ripe old age, of worrying what other people think. It's exhausting.

In my DM's case I think he just wants a lot of his exes there as an ego boost.

I opened the evite, so he'll see that I looked, but I'm not sure if I'll even bother responding. Somehow I don't see us remaining friends beyond a once-a-year party invite with a bunch of people I don't know.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Fri, Nov 6, 3:28 PM,
"a week later he was tagged on Facebook that he has got into a new relationship. . .I mean I don't understand how he got into one that quickly?"

He may have been dating her, previous to dating you :-(

"We used whatsapp when we texted each other but he has never deleted me. . .Isn't that the first thing a guy would do if he was into somebody else, block or delete me, I don't understand why he would want me into his contacts if he doesn't like me?"

Many men approach dating as a sport. Meaning, somewhat of a "numbers game." The more women they can juggle casually, the better. The more women they are able to keep as "options," the better. The more women they keep ties with, the better. So that there's Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc. Backups, to fall back onto, should anything turn sour with the others.

Men like this don't want to delete women they've dated, because then someone who remained as an option is no longer there. They want options to remain, so they're not going to do that. Should something sour, they want to easily be able to contact others and pick up where they've left off, rather than put the effort and work into meeting someone entirely new and starting all over again from scratch.

Anonymous said...

@chk61
I like it that he has invited youLOL. Now it´s your turn to make him feel the way he made you feel in the past. I don´t want to give you advice or be mean but if I were in your place, I wouldn´t even bother to respond let alone go there. I think he deserves "crickets" on your side.
Hopeful

Lottie said...

@Chk61

"Lately I find myself getting better at stepping back when people I know act in an odd or unpleasant way, and observing, not attaching any meaning or thinking it has anything to do with me, which leaves my peace of mind intact. Sometimes I still fall prey to thinking another person's odd or off-putting behavior is related to ME....but usually it has nothing to do with me (unless of course, I acted in an egregious way with that person). What people do, say, feel really has to do with THEM. I'm just tired, at my ripe old age, of worrying what other people think. It's exhausting"

You sum this up really well and seem to be approaching it in a really healthy manner.
It doesn't just apply to dating but in any interaction you have with someone.

Lottie x

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
More scientific support for the use of mediation and spoken affirmations:

Our DNA Can be Reprogrammed by Words and Frequencies:

http://www.ewao.com/a/1-our-dna-can-be-reprogrammed-by-words-and-certain-frequencies/

"It is known that Shamans, Esoteric and spiritual teachers have known for a long time the potential of our body and mind, they have known that our body is programmable by language, words and thought. Now thanks to Garjajev and his team, this “theory” has been scientifically proven and tested."

ALWAYS think positively - and ALWAYS speak (out loud) positive intentions in the form of affirmations during your alone time - you truly can shift your mindset and thus, your reality, by doing so ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA:. I have been reading the "Disappearing/Reappearing Man: What to Do" section and I Love, Love, Love it:. You know, if I didn't know better, I'd swear my DM is the one everyone has been referring to. LOL. I have to admit that I've been printing out parts of the section and STUDYING them. I've been going NC on a guy and you are so right. I've slowly gotten my dignity, self-respect and POWER back. After discovering your blog, I realize that I did a lot of things wrong when it came to dealing with this guy. I realized that this guy is really an insecure Narcissist and not "safe" to be in a relationship with. I've been in NC with him for almost three months now and at the 2 month mark, he came circling back by way of a LAME text. I was going to respond to the text about three days after receiving. But it was sooo LAME, it didn't deserve a response. LOL. Keep up the GREAT work and you really should consider writing a book. I'll be the FIRST in line to buy it.

chk61 said...

Yup, they don't always come back but they usually do in some way, shape or form! Strangely enough, just realized I've had three old boyfriends contact me in the last two weeks. One I "dated" in my 30's and stayed "friends" with (long story there but he probably qualified as a DM) invited me to spend the night at a new vacation home he bought in another state. I haven't seen him in at least two years and made it clear about 5 years ago that we would never be more than friends. The other (my last serious boyfriend I broke up with 8 years ago) sent me a friendly email. And as above, I already mentioned the DM who invited me to his party, saw him one year ago and had one email from several months ago.

Almost forgot, I bumped into a fourth old flame in a store the other day, the guy I fell for (and obsessed about for a few years) after I broke up with my last serious boyfriend....hadn't seen him in about two years. When it rains, it pours!

Anonymous said...

@chk61

OMG yeah they always come back to your life don't they?

Just 2 days ago I received a text message from a man that I intentionally ignored for months! I blocked his number and decided to unblock it about 3.5 weeks ago because I figured by now he would be OVER me and dating other women. He was also a creep which is why I didn't want to speak to him anymore. When he texted me I responded by saying that he reached the wrong number and that this new number belonged to a man name Tony. Haha!

Then this morning I received a facebook message from a DM I went on a date with 1 or 2 years ago. It's always the men that I no longer want to keep in touch with that ALWAYS gets back.

- Annoyed Gemini

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,

I also have experience with men who have reappeared after we had some previous communications on a dating site. Two of them a year later. One of them openly asked me out (the one who then on the date criticized my clothes so his effort after a year´s pause didn´t pay off), the others just covertly tested my level of interest or just wanted to kill the time I guess. Actually, the only ones that didn´t reappear were those to whom I clearly let know I wasn´t interested (using more subtle words, of course). The last man who contacted me recently (the one who claimed he can´t fall in love - ouch) had three long phone conversations with me after which he disappeared. Apparently, he came to the conclusion that I am not that goddess who would be able to make him fall for herLOL. And honestly, I think I was too talkative and a little eager, which might have scared him. I wasn´t eager because I liked him that much but I am already tired of these introductory chats. (I think I should take yet another break from online dating). He said he would call me to discuss the details of our meeting but I never heard from him anymore. Maybe he will be back because once something similar happened and the man contacted me again a few weeks later.

As I said I am tired of online dating but not desperate or depressed. Not at all, you needn´t worry about me:-). On the contrary, I am finally learning not to take it seriously. What is interesting, I have noticed that my exhaustion is bringing about some positive results. Recently I started to communicate very briefly - I write one sentence or so and don´t bother about e-mail correspondence too much. It´s unlike me because normally I am very polite and communicative (especially when the man seems to be normal). Wow, the men seem to like this approach more than my usual way. On the one hand they are critical of me for not writing enough but they still continue writing. It seems that their curiosity level goes up and they write much more and care more than I do. I haven´t lost a single one with this approach. I am going to try this in phone conversations too. I will reduce the amount of my talking to a minimum and we´ll see what will happen. Yes, Mirror, you are right that less is better and women shouldn´t do much and I would add that they (especially the thinking types) shouldn´t be afraid to sound a bit stupid either - it definitely helpsLOL. I have decided that in my next phone conversation I will just smile and say yes. I sense all those men will be fascinated by me.

Mirror and ladies, have a nice rest of the weekend and keep smiling no matter what.
Hopeful:-)

Gem50 said...

@ Hopeful,
I let my online dating subscription end a couple weeks ago without renewing. I, too, was tired of it. The first couple of days I wondered if I was missing anything with the email notices no longer coming in from the site enticing me to check in, but after two days, I was over it. I don't miss it at all. Instead, I am putting the WORK in to be happy where I am in life and staying open to meeting people in the real world.

One thing I'd like to mention about your post: Instead of looking at your shortened communications as "dumbing down," I think it is rather showing more intelligence, and that could be what these men equate the "less is more" theory to as well -- and holds their interest.

Being selective of what we say and how we say things shows character, insight and depth. It sounds like you've found something -- It'll be fun to hear how it works for you. :-)

{Hugs}


Anonymous said...

@Gem50
Good for you for leaving the dating site and focusing on real life. I am going to do the same because I feel that my self-esteem has gone down due to negative interactions. I know that I shouldn´t take anything personally but still... Apart from the man who criticized my clothes (unfairly - I was wearing nice clothes, high heels, make-up, nice hair, everything was in place in my opinion), there was another one who even told me I don´t have female intuitionLOL. Some talked endlessly about their exes although I wasn´t interested. About their extended families and their problems with relatives. About financial difficulties (presumably in order that I didn´t expect much in that regard). One didn´t have small change to pay for my coffee (fortunately, at least he paid for his). The problem is that many of these men consider the women on the dating site as easy targets and inferior (maybe in the US it´s different but in our traditional country it seems to be true). That´s why most of them aren´t polite. They just want to have fun and prove themselves and when I don´t respond to their impoliteness and reject them they pay me back at least verbally. I don´t remember being offended so frequently in real life. And by the way, you know I wanted to dump the cyclist (for disrespectfulness) and guess what? He had disappeared. As if he had felt it was comingLOL. Never mind. I don´t care anymore. Oh, and my short communication... With the newest man we only exchanged a few lines and photos and he asked me out by e-mail. I sent him my phone number and added that we could talk on the phone first. He replied that he agrees that we could talk on the phone first and sent me his number. Needless to say that I never heard from himLOL.

Mirror and ladies, thank you for the opportunity to share my experiences and feelings. It always helps.
Have a nice rest of the week,
Hopeful:-)


chk61 said...

@Hopeful: I think it's great that you are not taking online dating seriously....speaking from experience, it can do a real number on ya. I agree that with men and online dating, less is more! As Mirror teaches, I agree that the Law of Scarcity comes into play when we are dating and dealing with men. When we are less available, offer less information, and just relax and take care of ourselves, we have more of that "je ne sais quoi." I'm sure those men are already quite fascinated with you!

@Gem50: great comments. Online dating gets rather exhausting - like having a second job. I have been offline now for about 9 months and I don't miss it. I have peeked a few times but I only last a minute or two and am amazed to see the same faces that have been on there for years.

Another way I'm staying open to being in the "real" world is by staying off Facebook. Normally I would log on daily, maybe several times a day and spend hours mostly being a voyeur. I used to post but lately I just "Like" a lot of posts. Over time Facebook caused an extra layer of stress and social pressure that I just don't need: I can't keep up. I still do not have a smart phone because I don't want to be one of those people who has their phone out and is constantly looking at it, texting when I should be having a conversation with people in front of me, etc. (I do have a phone, it's just not "smart".) Somehow I amassed 435 FB friends and naturally, all of these people would rescue me if I was lying in a ditch somewhere. ;-) Lately I realized how odd it is to be a voyeur into so many people's lives. The lack of privacy in the modern world is also unsettling to me, someone who was very shy as a kid and is currently a rather private adult. Not to mention, FB is a supreme time waster.

The final straw came from one FB friend who is a colleague in "real" life and is a classic Facebook narcissist. I feel I have to "Like" her constant posts and selfies in order to preserve our working relationship. Yet her behavior on Facebook - truly appalling - has led me to believe she has has a personality disorder or is sociopathic. In our "real" life I have felt hostility and hot/cold vibes from her and I'm wondering why - did I miss a post, did I not like that last photo she posted of herself (after she posted 10 others). So two days ago I decided I'm done with Facebook for a while...even though almost everyone I know is on there. Like online dating, I believe Facebook and social media in general can be a negative force for humanity.

Off my soapbox. Tonight is the party of the D.M.. I attended his party a year ago and haven't seen him since. I never replied to the Evite and can you believe I'm wondering if I am being rude. I doubt we'll really be friends at this point so I guess I should just let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@chk61,
"In our "real" life I have felt hostility and hot/cold vibes from her and I'm wondering why - did I miss a post, did I not like that last photo she posted of herself (after she posted 10 others). . .he has has a personality disorder or is sociopathic."

I think you've already nailed her personality disorder - narcissism - and not just on FB.

FB is a great outlet for these types of folks, and if they're like that on FB, they're like that in "real" life, too. And if you have one that runs hot and cold on you, malignant narcissism comes to mind. I just read a great article about it last week and passive/aggressive behavior is something often associated with them. One minute they're throwing daggers at you, and the next they're offering to help you.

Their aggression usually has to do with "ego" related topics, referred to as egosyntonic aggression. Aggression and behavior related to the goals of the ego, or one's self image. And this article here even tells a woman's personal story with one (who happened to be another woman):

http://www.personalbrandingblog.com/evil-does-exist-it-may-be-one-of-your-coworkers/

You may be able to relate ;-)

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror (and ladies),

Quick question in regards to a DM... curious if any ladies have experienced this as well.

I've been with my current boyfriend for 2 years and haven't had any contact with said DM for just over 2 years.
I have not thought about him in that time or missed him or anything, and all of sudden I am having very vivid dreams about him (mostly his good qualities and the nice things he did). Now that these dreams are happening, I'm actively thinking about him (and I don't want to)
He has never reappeared, which is good. But he's now reappearing in my dreams, which is worse LOL.

Any explanation for this?
There's nothing happening otherwise to make me think of him, nothing wrong in current relationship, no triggers, etc.
I just find it really odd. This is the first time this has happened to me.
I snooped on his social media after the first dream however and discovered a few things: he's single.. again (not surprised). My relationship outlasted his, he went to jail for some time, etc etc.
I wonder if this is the Universe's way of sending a message and letting me know that Karma did her job? (And that I did, in fact dodge a huge bullet)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Nov 30, 2:28 PM,
"I snooped on his social media after the first dream however and discovered a few things: he's single.. again (not surprised). My relationship outlasted his, he went to jail for some time, etc etc. . .I did, in fact dodge a huge bullet"

Yea - I'd say so. They say orange is the new black, but I'm thinking that's not the best color to add to your wardrobe - "Jail Bird" is not really something that sounds all that great when referring to your lover LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

I just came across your articles very early this morning while unable to sleep trying to piece together where I went wrong with my Disappearing Man. In the past couple of weeks I have read a lot of articles about this topic and I have to say that your articles have been the most helpful. I felt something click in my brain this morning and realized I cannot cry any more tears or put in any more time for someone who isn't willing to put in the time for me. Our connection was amazing; nothing like I have ever experienced before, however maybe that isn't enough. I'm sure one day he will realize he may have made a mistake, however I don't think I'll be around to witness that because I deserve better. We all deserve better. Even men! There are women out there who treat men this way too. It goes both ways. So, thank you for these articles. They really opened my eyes and made me realize that I can, and I will, get through this :)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. My DM asked me to go to a Xmas dinner with him and his friends next weekend. He text me and asked me and even said he had not talked to me in a while, so he acknowledged that. I did not respond. This was a few days ago and then this morning he sent me an evite to the dinner. I am not going to open it. He only contacts me now it seems when he needs a date for a group event. I deserve way more than that. Why do you think he reaches out still? Is it for show for people?

Jojo said...

Hello! So I've read this post as well as others and here's my concern. I decided to go over to the man blogs and read about what to do when a woman stops contacting you and guess what? They are saying the exact same things "don't text. Women love the chase. You have to show her who is the boss. Let her call you. Don't give in to her games. I even saw one that said "why would you want to be with someone who plays games. If never hear from her then good riddance. " I also saw "women don't like when you call or text them too much. Let her call you " so I guess my worry is....what if we are all just ignoring each other. Ruining what could be potential relationships?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@JoJo,
"what if we are all just ignoring each other. Ruining what could be potential relationships?"

Well each of us have free will, so we're all free to do as we please. If someone decides to contact a disappearing man, then that's their decision. Same would apply for men dealing with a woman who's disappeared.

As for ruining what could be potential relationships. . .when it comes to "disappearing" folks, I can tell you that just about none of the dating situations that include someone who's disappeared on you actually ever turn into a relationship. People who are genuinely interested don't disappear. Half-interested people do this. And when they circle back around, generally it's only for a repeat of the first situation.

A while ago, probably about 2 years ago, on a lengthy post here about disappearing men:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/06/disappearing-reappearing-man-what-to-do.html

There are 5,000 comments/stories on that article. And not ONE of them - not even one - had a happy ending. Which is why I followed that article up with this one, which pretty much signifies that when someone disappears on you, there is no relationship that will result so it's best to walk away. Again, if they respected you and were genuinely interested they wouldn't disappear.

We took that a step further and actually conducted a little survey. I asked everyone on that thread in those 5,000 comments to review the amount of times a man who's disappeared has resurfaced. And the number was quite high - over 90% of men who disappear resurface at some point.

I then asked, out of all those who resurfaced - how many became a real committed relationship. There were NONE. Nada. Zip. Zero. Absolutely NONE of those situations that involved disappearances (and even included resurfacing) turned into a viable relationship. At best they were brief affairs that would max out around the 3 month mark (or well before it).

So what happened was that that little survey and tapping the "collective" there only further validated the fact that when these disappearances happen - they're a warning. The persons actions are telling you something, and when a disappearance happens, you should listen to what that's telling you. Because what it appears to be saying is that the person is only half-interested, and the situation doesn't have a very long shelf-life. So if you're going to move forward with someone who's disappeared on you, brace yourself for a repeat. Brace yourself for the fact that they'll return and stick around for a few weeks, only to disappear again.

Why?

Because they're only half-interested and their actions are telling you that ;-)

Anonymous said...

Jojo, having worked in the sex industry I can assure you the biggest "Johns" are the dudes who have women chasing them, they pretend they like it, they dont. its not natural and they know it deep down, the hunt must go on and the need for variety heightens... but it wont be with the idiot chasing him. He'll string her along because hes being taught these days that a woman should chase, but she will never be his first choice, or he may keep her around but keep he will keep frequenting women he chooses and pays for.

Unknown said...

MoA, thanks so much for your blog. It's helping me so much getting over my DM. We dated 8 months before he disappeared. He hasn't reappeared and I doubt he will because he rotates so many girls. He is a good looking software engineer, has a Phd and he is only 29. He told me early on that he totally sees us in a relationship down the road but he can't be exclusive with me just yet. Stupidly, I believed him and took it slow only to have him disappeared 3 weeks ago. We did so much together, I invested a lot in this "relationship". I followed your suggestion and didn't send one text to ask why he is ignoring me. Figured the best thing is to just walk away. But it is just so hard, I am in complete sadness and depression. MoA, do you think he will appear again? He has so many options so I don't think he would beg me to get my attention again. What is your suggestion dealing with players? Just curious, not that I want to date one again.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror and everybody,
from my experience I can only agree with the previous post about disappearing men. And it´s natural that "relationships" with these men never work. How could a man who was genuinely interested in you and felt great in your presence not want to see you? I have finally understood this simple fact because in my situation the roles have reversed. I am disappearing at the moment. On the cyclist. The last time we met, about two months ago after a long pause of several weeks, we had a beautiful time together, he was nice and supportive and did everything I wanted to do, we didn´t argue, the weather was extraordinarily beautiful,we didn´t feel like returning home, I felt connected to him, etc. Thanks to my previous rich experience with him I didn´t have any expectations but when he disappeared afterwards I was hurt again, I can´t count how many times I had let him hurt me like that. He managed to hurt me again because obviously, he knew what he was doing and that he wouldn´t contact me after the trip. So this time I made a firm decision not to communicate with him anymore because although we were only cycling buddies, his behaviour repeatedly hurt me. We had spent many hours on the bike, talking about almost everything. However, I don´t actually know him after all that time because he was quite secretive and since we were just biking friends I stopped asking him questions which I felt were too personal. On the other hand, he was repeatedly supportive in my bad times at work, I learned a lot from him about myself and life in general, we had a lot of fun together. He didn´t want a committed relationship, I didn´t want FWB, so we remained biking friends. This time after his disappearing I decided to stop this non-relationship for good. For some time it had been easy because he didn´t contact me until now. I received an invitation for a walk plus a restaurant and cinema. He knows what he is doing, doesn´t he? He knows that I will be thinking whether he has changed his mind about me or something along those lines. Again. But I am not going to yield this time. However, I don´t feel 100% good about my decision. I even hoped maybe he had found somebody and I wouldn´t have to cut him off but apparently he hadn´t. And I feel guilty because I allowed a lot of his misbehaviour so it wasn´t entirely his fault and also, I always refused him when he made some advances beyond biking. (Not in the first phases but later in our "relationship", e.g. at Easter he wanted to meet my parents and I said no). In any case, I am certain now that we aren´t a match but it doesn´t change the fact that I have a bad conscience. On the other hand, I am not capable or willing to start talking to him again because I am sure he will again hurt me somehow and maybe I will hurt him too. So I definitely must disappear, I don´t see any other solution. Also, I know that he will most probably become desperate because he has got used to my presence and he has noone else so reliable as I am here in the city (unless he had found someone), so he will certainly contact me again. What to do? Mirror, do you have any comments? Why do I feel sorry for him after so much disrespect? I really do feel sorry for him, he is such an unhappy person, very complicated, deeply hurt inside but I cannot do anything about it. Thank you for any comments. Have a nice rest of the weekend,
Hopeful

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Yang Li,
"What is your suggestion dealing with players?"

Watch the video under the section in this article titled "So what should you do?" That pretty much says it all ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hopeful,
"What to do? Mirror, do you have any comments?"

You know what to do ;-) I know it's a hard decision, and I also know that standing your ground on those hard decisions proves even harder at times. . .but you have to do what you have to do to look out for yourself properly.

If this situation is not bringing you happiness and, in fact is causing you pain - then there's only one thing to do, which is to distance yourself from that which causes you pain. Don't look out for his feelings, look out for your own.

Anonymous said...

i have encountered one of these A-holes. mind u but this is how i like to call my ex who disappears and re-appears and i STRONGLY agree to the advice of letting go of them in no time without the need to convince them to stay with u. as for my experiense? the man was after me for 6 months and when he finally got me he started his disappearing reappearing behavior, whenever he does this and come back i never accept his apology and him convincing me that he's changed but after one week i decide to get back to him, few months later he disappears and the same story again. my problem is i thought that he's changed but he didnt. and he kept me thinking that this relationship is going to somewhere serious but not now and that he doesnt know what he wants. fast forward? all of a sudden he met my girlfriend and fell in love with her and in about 1 month he engaged to her :) and what about me? screw her i found the love of my life, what about all the tolerating and sacrifices i have dont for him? screw it. and when i see him with her he was a totaly different man, 360 degrees different. i hate him to the bone. simply put, no one wants to involved in something serious with you if its totally okay with them to mess up with your feelings.

Anonymous said...

MOA's website along with everyone's situation here is helping me weed through all the jerks since I've been dating online for over 10 years. I've read tons of other websites and dating books but nothing compares to the awesomeness of this website!

I have also made the mistake of falling for men's sweet talk with no actions to back it up. Instead I blamed myself and thought something was wrong with me. Even when a man misbehaved I would let it slide because I thought being a 'nice girl' would make him more attracted to me.

I started casually dating a man from online for about a month now. I just confronted him yesterday about how I didn't appreciate him canceling plans on me the last minute OR not even telling me it's been canceled! I also said how I value his time and mine so it would be common courtesy to at least give me a heads up. However, I wasn't waiting around for him that day either because my intuition told me he wasn't going to reach out and I didn't want to contact him about whats going on since he was the one that invited me to the dinner party and said he'll contact me again about the time. Then he got some nerve to text me later in the night saying how he missed me and wanted to see me thinking that I would be totally cool with that. My response to him was calm but I wanted to make sure he knew his behavior was unacceptable. He apologized and said he'll "make it up somehow" and he also values my time. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprise if he doesn't contact me at all and care less if he makes it up to me or not. Life is short and I can't waste precious time waiting around a man I barely know to make things happen. If he really wanted to keep seeing me his actions will show.

loretta said...

At anon above (and everyone else with this problem), I really don't understand why men these days are behaving this way, i.e., disappearing, not confirming plans, texting instead of calling, treating women early on in the courtship like an afterthought...I don't get it. Especially with men over 40, 50 who grew up without the internet and had to do things the old-fashioned way when they dated a girl.

I can only surmise that it's our fault - us, women. We have obviously let them get away with that long enough, and have flipped the roles of "pursuer" and "pursued" long enough to give men of all ages the impression that they don't have to do anything to make the relationship move forward.

It's our fault. So, each of us, one girl at a time (haha) have to reject this behavior. I have been doing it all year, and I have suffered the consequences (gladly): no call backs, no initiation, no firm plans, disappearing/reappearing men that I ignore or ream a new one. I have gone through a couple dozen first and only dates because I won't be the aggressor. I simply don't call them or text them at all. When they don't text or call me, they never see me again. It's hard, but it's also kind of fun.

Eventually, you will meet someone who has not been conditioned to behave like this and has no history with it. Usually men newly out of marriages or long-term relationships. I found one that does not behave that way. Finally. Not only does he call, text and email me almost daily (and not like a gnat), but he makes plans with me a few days or a week in advance. He knows I'm busy. He knows we have a long drive between us, and he appreciates that I can make other plans if he doesn't make them. He never has to say that, he just says, "Would you like to do X on Friday?"

Hang in there. Don't reward bad behavior, lazy dating habits, guys who've forgotten how to court you. The right guy, or at least a possible right guy, will do the pursuing and you will never go back to chasing a loser again.

Anonymous said...

@loretta / from Anon December 14 11:08pm

I don't understand these types of behaviors from men either. I've dated guys who were older and younger than me and it feels like the age is irrelevant now because most of them pulled these stunts on me. I get it when a man is not interested but all this promising and charming a woman early on is just wrong. The only man that keeps his word is my father. My dad has never made any promises he cannot keep to the family. He may be a man of few words but he shows mostly through his actions.

My dad even told me stories of his playboy friends. He said some of them dated real decent women but they were too dumb and immature to realize it. In the end most of them ended up bitter and alone and one is living with a prostitute. He described the playboys as wolves who spent all their time preying on the next victim.

You're so right loretta because men who have a history of this behavior don't easily change. I recently found out that this guy I was dating few years ago has a girlfriend now but he still has an active profile on the dating site!

I'm happy to hear that you've found a good man! :-)

I used to feel depressed about myself whenever these men disappeared on me. I even wrote the names of all the men I've dated for the past 12 years and reflected on my experience + MOA's website. I was starting to see a pattern and can forecast when a man is going to pull his disappearing stunt on me. haha... but most importantly learned to build my confidence. I no longer have much patience and niceness left in me to overlook bullshit behaviors.

Thank you for sharing your story and advice!

Anonymous said...

@Mirror
Thank you for your reply. You are right, I know what to do. Fortunately, I haven´t replied to his text but if he texts me Christmas or New Year greetings, I am afraid I will relent and answer. I know it´s a non-relationship between us but fortunately, I am not a victim and I don´t feel like a victim either (unlike my past non-relationships). My weak point is cycling and walks. I love fresh air and don´t have anybody else who would go out with me, only the cyclist:-).

I agree with the previous posts about middle-aged men who behave so immaturely. There are so many of them! E.g. in my workplace there is one (single as far as I know) who flirts with every woman who is there. He started to flirt with me and in the beginning I thought he was seriously looking for someone. Luckily, I didn´t like him so I didn´t reciprocate, just smiled and exchanged a few words out of politeness several times. I noticed that as soon as one woman disappears from sight he starts talking to another one regardless the fact that there are other colleagues who witness his behaviour. And he does it on a daily basis. It´s like an addiction, a kind of mental disorderLOL.

Life isn´t easy but we have to continue living. I wish you a nice end of the week,
Hopeful

Gem50 said...

With the holidays here, just a note to lend my support and love to those who may be having a tough time getting through these days. The advice Ms. Mirror gives in her responses here throughout the year applies now as well: Take care of yourself. Think of your future. Picture what you know you deserve and breath through any doubts or questions or panics that pop up during the holidays.

Once you catch your breath, go for a walk, wash some dishes, move some furniture, bake a cake... do something different to change your thoughts.

Many women have been where you are, many women ARE where you are. You are not alone, we are together in spirit and tremendously strong in numbers.

Thank you, Ms. Mirror for all you do.

Love to All {{hugs}}

Anonymous said...

I have been texting a guy for a few months, we talked on phone & he came a couple of times to visit his family and then saw me on his way home from them. For a long time we both initiated texts evenly at about 50% of the time. He started saying he loves me that we will be together one day, sweet talk words and flowers on Valentines. So obviously I got my hopes up this will turn into a relationship.

The last month I have noticed he will not initiate anymore texts to me. However, if I send him one he is there day and night to talk with long texts, heart symbols, etc. He He suddenly started "ghosting" me in the middle of our conversation he would just "ghost" on me and stop talking (disappear).

Mirror, why is it that he is suddenly making me do all text initiating? I don't get it. Is it a game? Is he no longer interested?

I don't want to waste anymore of my time on a guy that disappears from our conversations without any explanations. It is a bit rude in my mind. We have built up a wonderful friendship so i feel a bit hooked.

What would you suggest? I have asked him about his behavior and all he says is "sorry hun I got busy all of a sudden". This sounds a bit like poppycock to me. Am I right?

Anonymous said...

To MOA and All: Happy Holidays!! I'm so glad I stumbled upon this blog. I just found DM in yet another lie. I'm thankful that God pulled me out of this situation before things got really ugly. I'm slowly accepting the fact that DM may have just crossed my path to teach me something--He was not meant to stay long term--and for that, I'm thankful.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Dec 23, 2:25 PM,
"why is it that he is suddenly making me do all text initiating? I don't get it. Is it a game? Is he no longer interested?"

Only he truly knows the honest answer to this - but now seems like a good time to put him to the test, to see if his actions will align with his words.

If he claims he loves you, and he claims you'll be together some day, then find out right now if he's serious about that or not. . .by no longer contacting him, and instead observing his ACTIONS to see if he'll contact you.

If he is genuinely interested, as he claims - then he will contact you. His actions will align with those words. And if he doesn't contact you, then you know that that's just a bunch of sweet talk and there's no action behind those words to back them up as truth.

Either way, you will have your answer ;-)

Anonymous said...

This is the most inspirational and empowering article I've ever read on relationships. Thank you Aphrodite. God bless you and may 2016 be full of wonderful success, happiness and love, D

Anonymous said...

Hello ladies!

So I've been a lurker on this site for a while now. This has become a place for empowerment and embracing one's self-respect and strength.

I emailed Mirror a while ago regarding a man named Chris, a guy I met online, who displayed Masochistic Personality Disorder tendencies. He was also a Frat Boy who never really seemed to grow up. My story is similar to everyone on here. Guy shows immense interest, pursues me and when I start to demonstrate a move towards a committed relationship, what does he do? He bounced. He claimed he was still interested but when it came to confirming plans for a date, it never happened. I haven't heard from him since.

And it hurt like hell. So what did I do? I pulled "No Contact" on his ass.

Deleted his number, blocked him on all social media - everything.

I'm not going to lie, the first month was full of anxiety, self-doubt and self-esteem issues. So many questions of, "What did I wrong?" "What's wrong with me?" I mean this guy had real issues but I was TWISTED over him.

It is now Day 31 and let me tell you something ladies, it WORKS. Now my DM has not reappeared but it gave me perspective. It gave me strength. My self-discipline has allowed me to view my situation in retrospect with CLEAR eyes. This man, who unceremoniously just left me, was insecure, immature, egotistical and had very REAL issues (it's the Frat Boy in him plus some personality disorder characteristics).

And you don't need someone that unhealthy in your life. I thank God for allowing me to meet this man, sleep with this man and experience this pain because now I know better and I will never make the same mistake twice. All of those red flags, I overlooked.... Well, never again.

If anything, do not expect "No Contact" to bring your DM back around. "No Contact" gives you that space to just listen to yourself, see your situation and look at this man for what he truly he is -- a ghost, nothing more.

And I do believe everything happens for a reason. I believe in Karma. So stay STRONG ladies. I know it's hard. But the end makes it so much worth it. As a friend said, "I'll give you the gift of my absence, if you cannot appreciate my presence."

-Mia

Anonymous said...

@Mia. You are right! No Contact really does work. It helps one get back her dignity, self-esteem and power. I was dealing with a DM and decided to go full no-contact on him. It was tough at first, but each day it got easier and easier. Especially when I would think about how he treated me. then the next thing I knew, a month had past. I started to feel better. and just like MOA says around the two month mark, he circled back to "test the waters". he sent a lame "just wanted to say hello" text. I ignored it. Then two months after that, he circles back again (again, I think to test the waters) with a Christmas Gift. I had nothing for him and did not apologize for having nothing for him. No way was he on my Christmas list for 2015 as I no longer reward bad behavior. So I accepted the gift and sent him back empty handed. Hopefully he is thinking about what he did and how he behaved towards me (especially this past Spring and Summer)

Anonymous said...

@ Jan 12 at 9:26AM

Yes, it is tough at first but so worth it in the end! What happened with you and your DM? Did he flake on you initially as well? You go girl!

Anonymous said...

@Mia,I pretty much went through the same thing last year. My DM circled back after disappearing for 1 month with a lame "Merry Christmas". However I did reply with a happy new year 10 days later. Then I disappeared again after he sent back a new year greeting and asked some lame questions. I still see him really active on dating apps. These people usually don't change and have a long list of rotation. So pathetic, they deserve no good girls.

Anna

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous Jan 12 at 2:28pm. I'm Anonymous Jan 12 9:26PM. With my DM, it initially started out promising. But then he flaked on me. I would send him text messages, he would ignore some of them and answer others. We would be in the middle of a text conversation and then right in the middle he would stop. This past Spring and Summer, he turned on me like a traffic light. for a while I kept wondering what I did. and then I realized I did absolutely NOTHING wrong. He was the one with the issues. So I went full no-contact on him. Giving him a taste of his own medicine. and he ain't liking it so much (hee hee)

Anonymous said...

@Anna, it's like what do these guys expect? A warm, hearty welcome back into our arm?. I don't think so. But I admire your strength and no-nonsense attitude! It's absolutely true they don't deserve good girls and karma will come back. It always comes back. But in the mean time, positive thoughts and forgiveness.

Anonymous said...

@Anna and Anonymous Jan 13 11:59. Yes! What goes around, comes around. I never wish bad luck on anyone, but my DM has definitely gotten a few visits from Ms. Karma.

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous 11:59am,
This is Anna. Karma is so real. There is one time my DM canceled our date last min(30 mins before we meet) and told me his cat is a bit sick and he's tired from work blah blah blah. That intrigued my insecurity and I offered to stop by and sent a few emotional texts. He wouldn't let me to visit for some strang reason. Back then I thought there must be another girl or something. Long story short, his cat actually died that night. Not that I wanted his cat to die but that made me believe Karma is real. He used his cats sickness to flake on me and he lost him that same night! Not that I want anything bad to happen to him or his pet. My DM and I dated for 8 months, we were never official(I brought up the where we are conv 6 months into dating him and he started to pull away from then)and he disappeared on me around Thanksgiving. No closure! I was so crushed and hurt. I only initiated once after his disappearance, he replied but sounded so distance. Then I fell off the face of the earth on him!Guess what, he texted me another lame "Hi Anna :)"last night. I haven't replied. Probably won't. It's been almost 2 months since he last initiated.(that Merry Christmas greeting doesn't count I think). So girls, be patient, they WILL circle back. But the point is to get ourselves detached. There are so many guys out there who would cherish us. There is someone for everyone. Thanks so much MoA, you have been so helpful during my dark time. I am getting a lot wiser because of you!


Anna

Anonymous said...

Hi Anna, this is Anonymous Jan 13, 2016 4:14pm. Yes, Karma is very real. Like I said, I never ever wish bad luck on anyone. But DM has not been having an easy time these past few months. 1. he hasn't worked steady since August. 2. his daughter was in a serious car accident (but thank God she wasn't seriously hurt) 3. Last month someone broke into his car and stole his gps. I'm thinking maybe all of this got him thinking about what he did because at Christmas, he stopped by with a Christmas gift. In the past, that would have NEVER happened. Other than saying "thank you" for the gift, I'm still in No Contact mode with him.

Anonymous said...

Dear Aphrodite,
I'm in the midst of a disappearing act from a guy and wondering how to handle the fact that we're friends on Facebook. I usually have a policy of not having any social media ties with a guy I am dating. However, on this occasion, we met at an event a month ago and he searched for me that evening on Facebook because he hadn't asked for my number in person. So a lot of our communication inter-date communications were on Facebook/Whatsapp.

We had a really nice month of dating, he pursued and initiated at every turn. But he clearly wanted more physical companionship from me than I'm willing to give due to cultural/religious differences. On top of that, he has a lot of turmoil in his life with a sick daughter from a previous marriage, rigorous university studies and, what's more, he's practically broke. So a few days after our last date (during which he was in contact every day) he sent a message saying he wanted to see me again soon, but had concerns that we weren't quite on the same wavelength and wanted to see how I felt about where we stood and whether we could stay as friends. I told him friendship would be fine because I knew from the start that may be where we end up since we are of different faiths but had a lot in common spiritually. I kept the message very short and unemotional because I made it clear I needed to take things slow since I don't typically date men who aren't the same religion as me.

So he responded with a second message saying he was "depressed," "overwhelmed by stresses" and wanted to meet soon because he was "not closing myself off to possibilities." Then he explained that he would "love to spend more time together" but said it would be tricky for the next few months since he is rapidly running out of cash.

Anyways, after these messages, he continued checking in on a daily basis for about four more days, obviously with much less intensity than the prior month. The final message I got from him was four days ago, in which he wanted to see how I was and said he hoped to see me "very soon". Then poof, he was gone.

I know he's got a lot going on and I'm keeping my distance and my cool, as I have been the entire time. But at the same time, I just don't know how long to wait before deleting him on Facebook, especially since I have no idea what's going on in his head. While I thought he would be someone I wouldn't mind keeping as a friend, I don't like how he conducted himself in the end and the inconsistent messages he sent. So do I wait or just delete him now?

Thank you!!

D

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@D,
"I just don't know how long to wait before deleting him on Facebook, especially since I have no idea what's going on in his head. While I thought he would be someone I wouldn't mind keeping as a friend, I don't like how he conducted himself in the end and the inconsistent messages he sent. So do I wait or just delete him now?"

Sounds like regardless of whether this man resurfaces or not, you've made the decision that you "like how he conducted himself in the end" -- which means that even if you hear from him again. . .there's really no chance of a friendship developing here anyway.

If that's the case, there's probably no reason to wait for him. Why wait for a man to return that you're not really interested in speaking to anymore anyway, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mirror, I think my gut is always to be kind and understanding, which is why I find these decisions so hard. But you are definitely right, ultimately I would never treat someone that way and in general my friends wouldn't either. Thanks a lot! D

Anonymous said...

@D I'm like you, My first instinct is to treat people with kindness and understanding and to not use them and take them for granted. Unfortunately, everyone doesn't feel that way--especially these DM's of ours.

Anonymous said...

Hi Aphrodite,

This is D again, I have a follow up question to my Facebook query last week. I disconnected with the guy on Facebook and Twitter on Day 7 of his disappearing act, which followed a week of a huge shift in his behaviour in which he sent conflicting messages on whether the relationship could continue or whether we should try to make a friendship work instead. The main sticking point -- I think -- is our different views on intimacy as I'm much more conservative than he is. He denied this of course, pointing to the turmoil in his life that he was struggling to deal with (money, studies, family) whereas my life is pretty much in order. All of these factors were clear during the month that he pursued me with incredible intensity (!) before fading out and disappearing.

So I disconnected without sending him a message notifying him. And I think he went a bit crazy when he realized because he changed his Whatsapp photo into a gloomy black and white pic of himself looking depressed. Then two days later he sent me a message on Whatsapp saying that he noticed that I removed him and that he didn't blame me since he had gone silent. But that he didn't intend for us to shut down communication and wanted to talk things through on how to proceed. He said he certainly thought we should be able to sustain a friendship and that he hoped to see me sometime soon.

I am wondering if I should give him the benefit of an explanation if he makes repeated attempts to get in touch? He really hurt me by entering my life like a bulldozer and then suddenly speeding out of view very selfishly without the courtesy of having a proper discussion with me or even letting me know that he needed space/time before the chat. I do want him to grow from this experience as you described so eloquently, as he obviously hasn't learned the lesson that it is inconsiderate to treat women in this way and I won't tolerate it. I realize he needs to walk through the fire and hopefully gain some spiritual benefit from the process. At the same time, it isn't my general nature to not explain myself, and I wouldn't want to leave the impression that my actions were based on an overreaction. I'm having a difficult time reconciling these competing ideas in my head so any advice is much welcome!

Thank you, D

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@D,
"I am wondering if I should give him the benefit of an explanation if he makes repeated attempts to get in touch?"

It's probably not necessary because he knows EXACTLY what your reasons were anyway. He said, "he noticed that I removed him and that he didn't blame me since he had gone silent."

So he knows exactly what he's done. When men behave like this deliberately, they know full well what they're doing.

"it isn't my general nature to not explain myself"

As women, we get caught in this trap. The trap of always explaining ourselves, always apologizing for ourselves, apologizing for our emotions, etc. -- because we're too nice. We're too accommodating to others. As young girls, most of us were taught that if you smile a lot, keep your opinions to yourself, and "do, do, do" for others constantly like an appliance. . .you will receive love.

But the ugly truth is that behaving like that really only leads to you being taken for granted, or being taken advantage of, repeatedly.

When you're too nice, it tends to invite poor treatment. People easily and readily mistake your kindness for weakness and they begin to treat you poorly as a result. Why? Well because you're SO NICE, what are you going to do anyway? Are you really going to leave? Probably not. Why? Because you're SO NICE, you wouldn't do that.

It's a slippery slope. Apologizing and explaining yourself places you into the "powerless" position. The other side has the "powerful" position over you when you're forced to answer to them.

So when you're going to do something like that -- make sure that it's an explanation or apology that's absolutely necessary.

Because if you go through life as a woman constantly apologizing for yourself and explaining yourself to others, you will place yourself into a powerless position with others to be judged by them and ultimately deemd "weak" in doing so.

And in this particular case, I see absolutely no need for an explanation (he already knows exactly why), and I certainly don't see any need for anything along the lines of an apology. . .so I wouldn't put myself through that. I wouldn't signal to a man that's treated you poorly that you somehow need to explain your decision to him.

It doesn't matter what a man who takes you and your feelings for granted thinks about you ;-)

"I wouldn't want to leave the impression that my actions were based on an overreaction."

Oh he doesn't think you've overreacted - he KNOWS exactly what HE'S done to create the existing situation - "he noticed that I removed him and that he didn't blame me since he had gone silent."

Let those thoughts ruminate in his mind dear, he needs the lesson. There are consequences in life for every action we take, and he's in need of the lesson of consequence right now. You've done absolutely nothing wrong. There's no need to apologize and no need to explain. He's fully aware ;-)

loretta said...

@Mirror and @D - What great advice, and not only for this particular situation. As I read the response to D's DM issue, I had a powerful AHA moment. Love that! In my younger days (20s, 30s) I was not Miss Nice Girl: I wasn't super accommodating or held back what I thought. No, I was pretty aggressive. I didn't cut anyone much slack. I was raised by super aggressive people and it was my nature. Later on, when I was in my 40s, I stopped dating altogether for a long time, and when I got back into it, I had turned into a WIMP. I don't know why. Possibly there was this subconscious thought that I wouldn't find anyone to love me if I was a beeyotch. haha.

As a result, I got walked all over and it was humiliating. My last 3 relationships were a perfect example of my being a doormat. And it was totally out of character. Maybe I was under a gypsy curse! But, no more! As Elton John sang (and I'm dating myself) THE BITCH IS BACK!

You all have heard of or read "Why Men Love Bitches?" I advise you to read it before you get into any more relationships with dumb men who don't know how to treat you. I'm a little late to that party, but I am completely done with the game of "Disappearing/reappearing" guys, or guys who don't pursue me, or who treat me like an afterthought, or who don't accommodate my very reasonable requests (like Casual Guy).

Consequently, I am not entertaining anyone who doesn't step up: not materially (I don't need presents or nice dinners), but who makes plans, pays attention in a normal way (not a weird, psycho way), who respects my time and talent, and who wants to build a relationship. So far, I haven't found anyone willing to do that, and it's ok. I deleted all my online profiles and am getting rid of Tinder as well. I have met enough men over the past two years to realize that either good men do not exist in my geographical area (possible), or the universe has other plans for me (possible).

Casual Guy and I are in another Mexican Standoff - something I inevitably lose because I feel it's unprofessional to ignore him. Not this time. He thinks he can outlast me, because I'll get impatient and say, "Hell with it, let's get on with it!" because I am very motivated. I am all those things, but this time I won't give his behavior a pass AGAIN. This time, I'm going to wait it out. As Mirror says above (and elsewhere) - he knows what he did. He knows he screwed up. He knows he dropped the ball and was a jackass. He knows why I am not responding to his texts and emails. He thinks by his silence now that I will rush back with "Ok, let's do this!"

Thanks to this site and Mirror's recent comment, I have new resolve. Thank you! Stay tuned for the consequences; because he is going to feel them.

Anonymous said...

@Loretta: I totally agree with you. My DM and I have slowly started to communicate again. But things are going to be different this time. I refuse to chase him. and I refuse to jump on his text messages. He recently did some work for me, and I'm trying to pay him. But I haven't been able to catch up with him to pay him. I have the money for him, I've told him my availability and now the ball is in his court if he wants to get paid. I'm not calling and texting and running after him. Worse comes to Worst, I'll mail him the money. I think this guy loves for me to chase him and this time around, it ain't gonna happen.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Aphrodite, I've decided to follow your advice to the letter and so far it has been immensely empowering. I'm very grateful to you for helping me reshape my approach to dating/relationships, and hopefully our DMs will learn the lessons they need to in the process. Best wishes, D

Anonymous said...

Can anyone give any insight on the psychology of the way men see time? Had a DM reappear after seven months. When we discussed that it has been seven months, he said seven months really isn't that long and I think he truly believed it! We actually havent seen each other in a year and a half. He said no way, didn't we just see each other last summer? Are these guys really this clueless? I don't think he is just saying this to play it cool- like all this time apart hasn't affected him and so he hasn't been keeping track. Any thoughts?

Anonymous said...

That's an interesting question, @Anonymous (January 30, 2016 - 12.03 pm). I would like to hear more about that as well. I'm currently 83 days NC with my DM... Well, sort of, because last week I was walking through the neighborhood on my way to some place when the DM suddenly stormed out of his backyard (he is my neighbor) , pretending not to see me . It was really awkward. I'm pretty sure he knew I was there because a few seconds before that , I had been talking to this painter who was working on my house... Plus, my boots were making some noise with the heels... So I do think that he knew that I was walking there, and that's when he stormed out of his backyard, pretending not to see me. Like I said, it was really awkward!!

I wasn't sure what to do because that man didn't even look in my direction (I was less than 2 steps away) but then I just said 'hi' and he said hello too, but he looked really cold. He congratulated me on some event in my life that he had heard about and then I continued on my way. So this was after 83 days of NC. After that, I obviously didn't hear anything from him. And I miss him so much... I don't think he misses me though and that hurts SO MUCH... I hate missing someone who doesn't miss me!! And I'm sure he doesn't care one bit that it has been 83 days NC (and counting) already. This is the longest NC ever

loretta said...

@both Anonymous above: 7 months? 83 days? Holy cow. I think the rule of thumb (in all the books and websites I've read about No Contact) is 6 weeks. If you don't hear back by then, you probably need to move on. I have only ever made it 2, 3 weeks with someone for whom I was using No Contact to get a change or a reaction. Otherwise, I use NC to move on. I don't expect to hear from them, nor do I care. I don't contact them, because I am done with them. If they contact me weeks, months later, I have no interest and I don't respond.

So, basically NC is best used to move on. To get them out of your system. If you are still counting the days, you are stuck. Why are you stuck? What's holding you back? There are literally millions of men out there, and one of them will meet you and think HELL YEA! Go find him. Forget those other losers. It is apparent that the universe has other plans for you. Act on that!

loretta said...

I thought of a perfect example of how this works: Years ago, I was ready to move out of an apartment into a house with my two children. We were so excited to get out of that apartment finally! I found (what I thought was) the PERFECT house right near where we lived, the owner was a friend of the family, and it was in a perfect location for the local schools. I submitted an application and didn't hear back for 2 weeks. I was wondering what happened.

I tracked down the owner, and he was very apologetic. His daughter and son-in-law decided to take the house after all. He had neglected to inform me that it was no longer available. I was crushed. My children were crushed. We thought we'd be stuck in that apartment for another year.

But then, I stumbled upon another house in a very nice area where there was never rental property. It was for rent! I couldn't' believe it. It was such a great house, I thought I could never afford the rent. My son and I knocked on the door and the owner was sitting inside the empty living room in an old recliner. We toured the house, me thinking "No way can I afford this place," and when I asked the owner what he was charging in rent, I nearly fainted. It was totally affordable. I then asked, "Can I give you an application right now? I have one already filled out for another house I was looking at." He said, "No need. I like you. I want you and your family to live here."

Just like that. I wrote a check for the security deposit and a month's rent right on the spot. We still live here ten years later!

Moral of the story: when something does not work out, there is something BETTER right around the corner!

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror. I wrote to you several years ago regarding a DM I'd had an on/off LDR with for several years and thought it was the end of the story as I had broken it off with him almost 2 years ago and we hadn't had contact for over a year now as I completely ignored him. All of a sudden he is at this very moment on a 24 hour flight here and wants to see me. I am at a loss as I thought he and I were ancient history and had even been dating the younger man I wrote to you about a few months ago (who, by the way, is still contacting me 8 months later to reconcile but that's a whole different scenario). I'm not sure how to feel as DM and I were very heavily into each other for quite some time but he literally lives on the other side of the earth plus he's an introvert, socially awkward, and did a lot of disappearing. At one time I was so in love with this man that I could barely contain myself, it was actually quite painful, but as time has elapsed I thought I was over him until he recently contacted me and then my heart started banging out my chest. I agreed to meet him for coffee but am feeling anxiety about seeing him. I don't understand? What does it all mean? I don't know if it matters but I am 51, talkative, free thinker, and long divorced with two children 20 & 12 and he is 48, a lifelong global corporate suit, a little nerdy and socially inept, never married with no children. Thank you for any insight you may have as I'm actually terrified at this moment as all the feelings I had for him are now flooding back into my heart. Yikes!

Astrid

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Astrid,
"I don't understand? What does it all mean?"

Well, I hate to say this but - it probably doesn't mean all that much dear :-(

It probably means that he wanted to see you, touch base, have some conversation, say hello, and then return back to his life. You can't read anything more than that into it. And even if he does intend for it to mean more, it really can't for you. Because you already know he's not reliable, he's not trustworthy, he's not consistent, he's not really available to you due to distance. . .basically, you already know that this won't work anyway.

Therefore, this really doesn't, and can't, mean anything either way you slice it. Because on the one hand, he's not a man cut out for a commitment ("socially inept, never married with no children"). And on the other hand, even if he thinks he'd like to attempt that, you already know that his attempts are inconsistent, include disappearing acts, aren't reliable. . .and really lead nowhere except around and around in circles.

Truth be told, I'm not sure I'd even visit with him :-(

Doing so can send you right back to where you were years ago. It can "trigger" all of these things that you've worked so hard to put behind you to surface once again - to be dealt with all over again. Remember the old saying that states that the definition of insanity is ". . .doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

You don't want more of the same here. And you certainly don't want to drive yourself mad trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. In that scenario, before even attempting to drive that square peg home - we already know it's never going to fit into a round hole - which makes the entire effort an unnecessary expenditure of energy.

So think about that and make sure that whatever you decide to do - you don't exert an unnecessary expenditure of energy on a square peg ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi MoA,


My disappearing man reappeared after two months(we previously dated for 8 months). At first I was firm not to give him the easy way back to my life. Then we met for coffee, but I ended up sleeping with him that night(I know,huge mistake, but he always gets his way of sleeping with me. He would say things like"babe, we have to have sex". "You know you want to do it with me." )

Anyway, he then disappeared again(no surprise). Do you think he would circle back for sex again? What do I do next time to make him realize it's bad to treat me this way? It's now been 2 weeks of no contact. I hate myself for sleeping with him again after his appearance. I don't want to see him again but I lost my power and self-esteem. I feel really really bad about myself right now! Can you give me some suggestion? How do I walk away from him?


Susie

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Susie,
"Do you think he would circle back for sex again?"

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. He's done it before, he'll do it again.

"What do I do next time to make him realize it's bad to treat me this way?"

You don't reward his poor treatment with more of your time and attention. Instead, he receives a consequence for it (none of your time or attention):

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2012/11/how-to-say-no-dating-life-consequence.html

"How do I walk away from him?"

You don't answer any of his calls, you don't respond to any of his texts, you don't agree to see him and you don't reach out to him. Doing all of these things only keeps you emotionally connected to him. It's up to YOU to break that emotional bond and detach by completely removing him from your life.

Because people can only treat you as poorly as you let them ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mirror! I'm relieved to report that he never even gathered the courage to contact me while he was here and has since gone further north. Typical. Hopefully he'll never have the guts to contact me again as I will certainly never reply to his ridiculousness. His phantom visit actually helped me though as I am back on my healthy eating plan, went back to the gym, bought a new pair of jeans, 5 blouses, and 2 bras. Thanks for the kick start coward! I can now ready myself to meet someone who owns a pair and is worthy of my love and affection. Haha! ^__^ As always, thanks for your insight and guidance. I have to say that I did see this coming and predicted that he would chicken out. I wish him no ill will and actually feel bad for him as he obviously has a lot of fear and insecurities. Why even contact me after all these years if you have no intention of following through? My strong Irish grandmother called these type of frightened men a "Billy Under the Bed." Hope your evening is wonderful.

Astrid

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. Please advise.
I met one man who lives in another country. He has been texting me for 3 months every day three -4 times a day.
He has been very sweet and said he is looking for serious relationships.
He said we will meet soon but he never asked the name of the city where i live and once (never before) in our last conversation was testing me
with questions about sex that he wants us to have when we meet. I told him that it might not happen right away since i dont know him...i dont know if it's connected but after that for the last week he started to dispeapper and i felt he distanced himself from me from his messages.
I texted him a few days ago to ask how he was doing, because he never dispapered before for a few days but his text was very a formal message.
So, I asked him if he had any plans to meet any time soon, because virtual dating is not for me and that i like him.
His response was, somthing like, he will tell me if he doesnt want to meet... for me it was a 'No" because other then that he didnt say anything..
so i called him a player and thanked for his time...he was angry that i called him a player... and then said ok and disappered.((..
I blame myself now for overreacting...he has done nothing wrong only that he distanced himseld from me for no reason...and started to pull back
(maybe he needed some space, but he alwasys initiated the conversation)
the thing that he had never asked the city where i live in made me think virtual dating was enough for him..
I realy like this man and would like to meet with him, but I am afraid that i will never hear from him again
Please advise.. did i ruin it? should i text and apologize? What should i do and what can be the reason that he pulled back?

looking forward for your answer
Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Wed, Feb 3, 7:19 PM,
"He said we will meet soon but he never asked the name of the city where i live and once (never before) in our last conversation was testing me
with questions about sex that he wants us to have when we meet. I told him that it might not happen right away since i dont know him...i dont know if it's connected but after that for the last week he started to dispeapper and i felt he distanced himself from me from his messages. . .I blame myself now for overreacting. . .did i ruin it?"

No - actually, you filtered him out as "undateable."

His actions are telling you something. They are revealing his intentions. And I believe his intentions are sexual, and not genuine.

"should i text and apologize?"

Apologize for not agreeing to have sex with him the minute you meet him? No, that's not necessary at all.

"What should i do"

Be thankful that this man revealed his true intentions before wasting anymore of your time. He's not seeking a relationship, he's seeking sex and virtual sexual situations.

"what can be the reason that he pulled back?"

He wants sex - sex in person, sex over a device - sex. And when you informed him that that's not what you're seeking (you're seeking a serious relationship), he knew he wasn't going to be able to talk you into that - so he moved on.

No big loss here dear. This man is out to use women. He's not seeking a relationship, he's seeking some "fun." Be glad that he revealed his true intentions before wasting anymore of your time - he's actually done you a big favor ;-)

Cox Mill First Grade said...

@Anonymous Wed, Feb 3, 7:19 PM,
"I realy like this man and would like to meet with him" what do you like about him since you have never met each other before? His sweet talks through texts? --They are bullshit. Those were meant to talk you into having sex with him when you meet. But you were cautious and you didn't buy it. Now you should be the one who laughs at him for him having making efforts(texting a few time a day for some time to trap you) but failed to make you agree to have fun with him. He is probably feeling bad about his failure. He tried to please you with sweet words and you felt happy and cared when hearing from him. He at least devoted some effort and time by trying to hook you up and you have lost nothing. Look at the whole thing this way, you should be mocking at him:)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

I love your write ups, advice, you're amazing, however i am probably one of those students that may disappoint their teachers as it took all that is in me to push myself to ask you this question after reading several similar stories.
I am not in a relationship with this guy, its obviously a wrong situationship or something worse. He chased me 2 years ago, i ignored, he persisited, i finally fell and at some point gave him the cookie. He started acting super non challant afterwards. We never had anything serious, no dates mostly just at his place and just once we went out real brief but we've hit it a couple more times and he keeps disappearing, doesnt pick his calls, after months, i buzz him, he picks and i go over to his, this same old cirle is repeated.
In other words, in the 2 years, we have probably kicked it for maybe 5-6 times cause he disappears.
To cut this story short, its his birthday in 3 days. I havent spoken to him in 3months. He sends me a birthday message so i thought i should reciprocate. However, i didnt want to send a message initially, i was going to let it go, but while i dialled his number days ago just to see if hes line was still connecting and tried to cut it when i realised i shouldnt, but it rang and he didnt pick but called back immediately.
I had to say i was calling to say a happy birthday acting like i missed the date, i made the conversation brief and said talk to you some other time.
My question now is, after hes said the date which is in a couple of days now, am i still supposed to wish him a happy birthday? as i am upset he did not try to even apologise for disappearing for 3months and even after the call that broke the silence, he hasnt deemed it fit to send a text.
Please advice.
Thank u.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 15, 8:49 AM,
"am i still supposed to wish him a happy birthday? as i am upset he did not try to even apologize for disappearing for 3 months and even after the call that broke the silence, he hasn't deemed it fit to send a text."

I wouldn't bother - and truthfully, I wouldn't bother speaking to him ever again.

When you're so far removed from the man that you're not even sure if his number is connected, he's not someone that's really in your life anyway. And all that appears to be happening here is that each time you move backwards into the past and dig him up again. . .he takes advantage of that, uses you for sex, and then disappears again.

I would not bother being kind and respectful - to a man that isn't kind and respectful to me ;-)

Anonymous said...

This is Anonymous Feb 15, 8:49 am.

Thank you for your prompt response MOA. I actually dont want to say a text but i was just feeling wouldnt it be somehow after he reconfirmed his birthday date to me, for me to act like i dont remember and not wish him a happy birthday even when he did wish me.
I will just go with your advice and not say anything to someone who has been utterly disrespectful to me using me as a sex object.
Regards.

Tahui said...

To Anonymous above Feb 15, 8:49 am.

Hi I couldn't help myself but wanted give in my opinion on your situation since I can totally relate. MOA has mentioned in many of the post here about having respect for yourself and to pay attention to a man's action more than whats coming out of his mouth. Talk is cheap!!! I can totally relate with your situation since I've put all my eggs for one man right from the start then agonized for weeks and months when he started pulling the disappearing act. Honestly, it has taken me YEARS to learn from my mistakes and to build my self esteem. I even wrote down a list of WHY I deserve a good man in my life because of who I am and what I can offer. It also helps for me to draw boundaries with men and I'm learning not to feel bad about it.

This man that you're dealing with doesn't deserve any of your time!!! I know it's hard at the moment because you still have feelings for him but you will get over it!!! Believe in it and it will pass! Life goes on. Just try not to go backwards by having contact with him. Even writing down a list of WHY you deserve better helps!!! You should totally be angry for what he did to you back then. He NEVER apologized for it. Even if you guys do end up talking about it somehow and he gives you a half ass apology don't even accept that! If he calls you any mean names or accuse you of being 'petty' for remaining upset then tell him to f**k off. I also frequently visit this website to reread articles and other people's comments to not put myself down when a man mistreats me.

Anyway hope you fight this through!

Anonymous said...

I watched the movie How To Be Single with my boyfriend yesterday. When it was over, I tole my BF that I didn't like Robin, who would go to bars after work, get drunk, and end up sleeping with a stranger from the bar, and believes she is living a happy life as a single girl. My BF commented:"No, I didn't like her either because she doesn't value herself". I think my BF's remarks proved what MOA has been encouraging women to do: love and value yourself and you will be loved and valued by a real man:)

PiscesGirl said...

Ladies why make a man feel special and important when he doesn't make you feel that way???Why text him and let him know that he is on the forefront of your mind when he probably isn't thinking about you-or even worse is but wants you to give chase. If looking desperate and pathetic is the look you are going for then go for it!! I watched a video the other day about a dating expert talking about what to do when the guy you're seeing disappears on you and his answer...absolutely NOTHING!!!DO NOTHING. Don't chase, don't pursue-Ever..just Don't do it!!! YOU are the prize and the only way for him to realize that is if you are not blowing up his phone essentially begging for his time and attention.You are a woman who has so much value and worth and plenty of other men vying for your attention so you don't chase men-men chase you!!! Even if that isn't your reality that is what you always want to make a man believe!!! This is straight from the horse's mouth so Mirror she knows what she's talking about.

PiscesGirl said...

I went on a date with a man exactly 2 weeks ago and it went well-so I thought-we went for a nice dinner and he payed then we hung out for a bit after that but then he had to leave around 11 pm because I guess hes a professional poker player..hmm not so sure about that since it is gambling but I kind of let it slide since he has other business on the go and seems pretty ambitious and somewhat successful. Anyways, he text me good morning beautiful the next day and said he was woke up sick AF (tues) and then the next day after that sent me the good morning beautiful text again in the morning and told me he was still really sick so on Thursday I decided to text him first to ask how he was doing and then Friday came and the weekend rolled around and I didn't hear from him at all I just assumed he was still sick but I didn't text him.I never heard from him till mid week Wednesday when he said hello and asked how I was doing-he claimed he was just starting to recover from being sick...hmmm ive heard the sick excuse before but i gave him the benefit of the doubt. I was taking a bath when he text me and I told him that and then he said I wish I could take that bath with you (insert unimpressed look) yep inappropriate and i wasn't gonna partake in that so that was where I ended the conversation by not even bothering to reply to that and since then I haven't heard from him....(continued)

PiscesGirl said...

I went on a couple dates with this guy briefly last year but I didn't think he was right for me so I kind of just pushed him away but he goes out a lot and the last time I went out I bumped into him and then agreed to go on a date with him again because he was texting me a lot. He is older probably later 30s if not older I'm not even sure and has a calm disposition about him which i like.From what I gathered about him he seemed like a gentleman and when I asked him before going on our last date if he was a relationship kind of guy he said yes but now I realize he probably has another agenda. Actions and/or inactions will tell you everything you need to know..plus valentines rolled around and nothing. Usually guys who aren't serious don't wanna spend any holidays or special occasions with you.Though I did feel kind of sad and lonely especially on love day I think I'm getting stronger and learning more about self love and just how to treat myself really kindly and lovingly.Plus I have other great people in my life who love and appreciate me so i know that i am loved and i too am capable of loving. Mirror your site is such a source of hope, encouragement and empowerment and i cant thank you enough for all the time and effort you put into it for us ladies who sometimes feel like there is something wrong with us because someone isnt treating us the way we deserve to be treated. But you remind us that more often than not it is something wrong with that guy and we shouldnt allow his shortcomings to make us feel bad about ourselves..i know if this guy tries to message me again ill be ignoring him because the way a man makes you feel is really all you need to know when determining whether or not he is right for you and if he just disappears like that its best to just delete his # and keep it moving because he obviously doesn't place a very high value on you or chances are he has a harem of other women in his sphere. I'm becoming stronger and learning to not allow these experiences to make me bitter but rather focus on getting better. I'm just growing and getting stronger and smarter and I'm trying not to classify any dating experiences as good or bad they are just experiences and ill take from them what i can for my own growth and betterment. Sometimes i get insecure especially as i get older -soon to be 31! i feel like a man would want someone younger or prettier, skinnier more accomplished etc but i try to remind myself that once i meet the right man for me in his eyes ill be perfect. Lets not chase these disappearing men all it does is blow up their egos when they have women blowing up their phone and makes them think that they are the man which leads to them being overly confident. Real men don't need constant validation from women like that all the time only the insecure ones do. Real men find 1 special lady and focus their time and attention on her and make her feel like shes the only girl in the world.
<3

Pisces Girl

piscesgirl said...

I just wanted to add to my last post. I really like this saying..Your value doesn't diminish because of someone's inability to see your worth..i always tell myself that. Never forget your value and your worth even if someone doesn't treat you like you are valuable and special.
Most of us are probably really hard working, ambitious and motivated. We probably go to work and/or school and spend a lot of time trying to better ourselves and our lives so why waste time on a f&ckBoy that wont add value to our lives or help us become a better person. You wouldn't be helping yourself you would be hindering yourself in life by wasting time with a dude who doesn't have much to offer and time is the one commodity you can never get back.
Food for Thought.

Anonymous said...

@PiscesGirl (your post of Feb. 15, 11:48pm) RIGHT ON, SISTER!! Why make a man feel special when he's not making me feel special??? I was guilty of doing this with my DM. I would text him first, I was even getting him little gifts (just because)--in other words, I was doing all of the things for HIM that he should have been doing for ME. I finally had enough and went NO CONTACT on him. The best thing I ever did. It helped me get my self-respect, dignity and power back. Christmas time he came circling back with a gift. I had nothing for him and did not apologize for having nothing for him. It felt good to send him back empty handed.

piscesgirl said...

So disappearing man that I went on a date with text me this past Saturday morning with a 'hi stranger' text I recognized the number as his though I deleted it earlier in the week and I immediately deleted the text -it felt great! I just think about how he didn't message me for a couple weeks and how Valentines went by and he wasn't around and I felt kind of sad and lonely and that just makes me so mad that I don't even wanna bother with him and his unconsistent ass. Now he wont get any of my time or attention.

Anonymous said...

Here's my story... I work with this guy closely I had reason to believe that he had a gf but he never spoke of anyone so wasn't sure. We got close due to our working relationship and things happened. We wld text constant and met up on occasions aswell as seeing each other continually at work as well as sleeping together. He bought me flowers etc. After about 4 weeks he started getting distant texts slowed down no meets so I asked him what we were doing were we mucking about or were we seeing each other. I also asked about the gf and he said he didnt have one. I got the "I'm not ready for a relationship and happy with how things are" speech so I stupidly said ok. Few weeks go by things pick up mainly texting saying nice things sum meets still sleeping together. Things start deteriorating again so I said I can't do it anymore. I went nc lasted 5 days and he text saying he missed me. Things get back on track with him upping his game got me a lovely Xmas present etc took me out for my bday more sex. Few weeks go by things dwindle so I bring it up again asking what we doing. I ask if theres anyone else he says he broke up with gf when we got together and hes just not ready for anything yet he said he needs space to clear his own head as he doesn't want me to feel like he's stringing me along. 2 weeks go by no outside work contact. Work strictly professional.he text out the blue as if everything fine and I stupidly start talking to him again even tho I had been in agony for those 2 weeks. Things go back to how they were loads of texting saying really nice things not much effort with anything else (I did sleep with him) 2 weeks of this and id had enough and said i cant do this anymore told him to stop texting and that I couldn't be friends it was to hard. That was 16 days ago and I've heard nothing. What is this guys deal?? He appears genuinely into me but then all this hesitation and faffing about!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 7, 7:51 AM,
"What is this guys deal?? He appears genuinely into me but then all this hesitation and faffing about!"

His deal is that he's "not ready for a relationship and happy with how things are."

When a man tells you that he doesn't want a relationship - believe him. Because no amount of sex, hooking up, or hanging out is going to change that unfortunately. And he will continually come (seeking sex) and go (running away before it gets serious) from your life as much as a woman will permit him to :-(

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your fast reply. My question is then will he ever be ready or is he stringing me along. He previously said that he wasn't and was aware of his actions and how it was making me feel. He didn't want me to feel used or taken for granted and end up loosing me altogether. Is there hope?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 7, 9:07 AM,
"My question is then will he ever be ready or is he stringing me along."

Maybe - maybe not. He may be ready in 6 months, he may be ready in 6 years, or he may become a bachelor for life. Either way, life is too short to spend it waiting around for a man to figure out what he wants to do with his life, ya' know?

Never wait to be "picked" by a man:

http://www.aphroditeastrology.com/2014/02/dating-feeling-helpless-what-to-do.html

Don't put your happiness on hold for one either. You have two choices:

1) You can date and go through passively (“Accepting or allowing what happens, without active response or resistance.”)
2) Oryou can take control of your own life and happiness by dating proactively instead (“Creating or controlling a situation by causing something to happen, rather than responding to it after it has happened.”)

And sometimes being proactive and in control of your own life and happiness - means letting go of that which is not working or making you happy by walking away from it. . .to make room in your life for what will make you happy and what does work.

And sometimes being happy and in control of your life requires you to be, well. . .a BITCH LOL (e.g. Babe In Total Control [of] Herself ;-)

"is he stringing me along. He previously said that he wasn't"

A man that is stringing a woman along will NEVER actually TELL her that's what he's doing. Because if he did that and he was honest the woman. . .then he wouldn't be able to string her along anymore.

Ignore WORDS - listen only to ACTIONS.

When a man says, "I'm not stringing you along" and then does displays behavior that's inconsistent with that (comes and goes, comes and goes, comes and goes). . .his actions are telling you something. And when a mans words do NOT align with his actions - it's a big red flag. It indicates that somewhere, there's a lie because things aren't adding up.

A man who is not stringing a woman along will take actions that lead the relationship towards something more serious (commitment).
A man who is stringing a woman along will take actions that do not lead the relationship anywhere (except in circles).

"Is there hope?"

Maybe - maybe not. . .but either way, I wouldn't put my life or happiness on hold waiting. I'd keep moving forward without the man. Because if he finally figures out what it is he wants and that ends up being me. . .he knows where to find me and he'll come seek me out ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I need your advice. I am really confused as a guy has gone quiet on me unexpectedly. Met him at work last August. We bonded quickly and got on well. I thought he fancied me but I wasn't certain. I left it as worked together. But I got made redundant in December and he friended me on Facebook shortly after I left. He invited me to his NYE party- I couldn't make it. A month later in Jan I had my official leaving do. We ended up kissing. Then he said he was after a good friend he could be intimate with. When I clarified shag buddy?? - he said I wasn't understanding him. Anyway, I didn't care as I felt loads of chemistry for him and hadn't been intimate with a man for years. I slept with him and tried to forget about him as I'm not a casual girl. Then he messaged me a few times to meet up. I declined as I was busy. Then he messaged me Happy Valentines Day. He was inviting me out for coffee and Sunday lunch - not shag buddy things. Then I arranged to meet up with him a weekend later and he told me he was looking for a girlfriend and he really liked me. I slept with him again (he really persuaded me). I tried to leave quickly the next day but he asked me to stay. We ended up chatting all day about our lives, our last relationships, life, spirituality, our family issues. He was asking me loads about my family and kept saying 'we get on well don't you think?' We had so much in common - it was uncanny. Then he took me for an early dinner and paid. Then I left and he said he had a great time hanging out with me. A few days later he text to say he left some stuff in my car that he needed urgently. I dropped them back to him at his work the following day, but when I saw him it was a bit awkward and he didn't have time to have a cup of tea with me. We were both due to go to a mutual friends party that weekend. I didn't text him all week and he didn't text me til the Sat night to ask if I was going to the party. He said he was feeling off but meeting a friend and if he did go to the party it would be much later on. I said I was going but not sure how late I was staying. So he said ok if I don't see you have a good one and catch up soon. I said ok. But then he kept messaging me to see how the party was going. In a nutshell he didn't come to the party. At around 3am he text to say that he was tired after dancing round his flat with his housemates and going to bed. I stupidly text back, "Ok fair enough, but I'd rather you'd just been honest from the start and said you weren't coming. You are one confusing guy." (I blame the alcohol). He apologised for any confusion his behaviour has caused. The next day I felt my message was out of context so I text him to say 'Hey, was pretty drunk when we were messaging last night.
Just had a look at our texts and my last message to you made me made me laugh - we hadn't even arranged to meet at the party so not sure what I was going on about lol. Anyway hope you had a good night in the end. Chat soon."
He messaged back a few hours later to say: "Hey there, That's cool - I know what it's like to feel emotional after drinking. I felt like I should keep you in the loop of what I was up to, as I seem to recall telling you I was going to be there.. Yeah shame I missed it, was just feeling a bit tired after catching up with housemates, which I needed as been trying to bridge things a little at home. Indeed, hope you've recovered ok, catch you laters!
I didn't message him back after this. We haven't spoken since - 10 days ago. Although he did wish me a happy birthday on Facebook the other day. I won't message him. Do you think it's over?

Anonymous said...

Wow... Mirror, these articles have been so helpful to me! I've been going through this with a guy I've known for quite a few years now. We've both dated other people, but somehow we always wind up talking to each other again and hanging out. Last year I decided I just couldn't deal with his flakiness anymore, and stopped reaching out to him. It was incredibly hard, and it really was a wake up call for me.

Of course, 3 months later he shows up again... It was so bizarre, because he showed up almost exactly 3 months later! I felt better about myself this time though, because he reached out to me first without me prompting him or anything... Stupidly though, I started talking to him again. Once again, he started pulling back again, and I did too, not talking to him or hanging out.

Then, once AGAIN, he shows up, this time exactly 2 months later! Again, without me prompting him. Stupidly, once again, I fell for it and started talking to him again and flirting a bit.

Well, as I predicted... He pulled back again. We wished each other a merry Christmas and happy new year, but I haven't heard from him since January. And don't worry, I haven't reached out to him again LOL... I have a feeling I'll be hearing from him again... Soon actually, since Easter is coming up soon. but this time if he does, I won't be responding to him. It's just too frustrating at this point. I think sometimes he just reaches out to me to boost his ego. I've also realized, during no contact, that I was almost addicted from hearing from him randomly... I was feeling a chemical rush. No contact has helped me realize that I don't need this guy.

Ladies, I would listen to Mirror's advice and just go no contact on these men that are like this. You'll find that you don't need him... And you'll probably realize that he's not as great as you thought. You might find that you feel similar to me... How I was just addicted to missing someone and felt a shot of adrenaline when I got a text from him randomly, or whatever. I think sometimes, it's just an infatuation and you find that you don't even really like the guy. You all deserve so much better!

Mirror, I did want to ask your opinion on something, is it always just about sex from these men? Or do they just want an ego boost? Or are they just bored, and looking for women to talk to? It's just so frustrating sometimes!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 9, 4:30 PM,
". .is it always just about sex from these men? Or do they just want an ego boost? Or are they just bored, and looking for women to talk to?"

It depends on the man, as each will have different issues causing different motivations for their behavior. Some are seeking attention, some are insecure and cowardly, some are using sex as a coping mechanism, some are emotionally unavailable, some are not seeking a commitment, some secretly resent women, some are simply having fun. . .it all depends on the individual and what's driving their behavior.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 9, 3:17 PM,
"Met him at work. .he said he was after a good friend he could be intimate with. When I clarified shag buddy - he said I wasn't understanding him"

LOL, yea right. Good friend he could be intimate with = F buddy. You didn't misunderstand him. He didn't say he was looking for a relationship.

"Do you think it's over?"

It's not over - because something that never "was" in the first place, can't end, ya' know?

I believe what happened here is that this man in looking for an F buddy, he may possibly attempt to mislead women into thinking he wants a relationship so that they'll sleep with him (and then afterwards he'll say "it's just not working").

Because his words are NOT lining up with his ACTIONS here - which signals BS.

He said "he told me he was looking for a girlfriend and he really liked me" - but then he DID this "We haven't spoken since - 10 days ago."

Does that seem like the behavior of a man that really likes a woman and is interested in a relationship with her? No, it doesn't.

BUT - his ACTIONS do line up with his original statement " he said he was after a good friend he could be intimate with" - an F buddy. Someone you don't talk to regularly, someone you don't date regularly, and someone you're not committed to.

When this guy realized that you were looking at him in a serious manner (i.e. when you kinda' got upset he didn't show up at that party), he instinctively knew you'd want "more" from him (a relationship, where he kept his word - commitment) - he bailed. Because he really doesn't want a relationship, he wants a "good friend he could be intimate with." He doesn't want to have to commit to someone, or keep his word, or follow through, etc.

This has nothing to do with you. This man is simply looking for a good time and nothing more. And when he realized he would have to live up to higher expectations if that were to happen - he left.

It's a classic case of a man trying to manipulate a woman into thinking he may want a relationship with her - so that he can begin receiving regular sex from her (while staying single).

Don't be sad dear - in my opinion, you dodged a bullet here ;-)

Anonymous said...

This has sort of just happened to me. I met a man online for dinner -- we went out for dinner, had an amazing time. I'm 39, he's 43. He's from a different city and went home the next day. We kept in touch every day for a month, in which time (looking back) he definitely "love bombed" me a little (told me I was his dream woman, asked about what we would do if we "fell in love" in terms of moving cities, etc. and made a lot of plans with me for summer trips. I made sure to explain to him that I'm not "casual" and wanted something really real in my life. He said he wanted the same things. I should also explain that he's really good looking, and so for him to be on text with me so much, and every night late into the night, seemed to show me he *isn't* a player, since he wasn't out on the field, playing (he was at home, texting with me). After a month, he came back to my city, exclusively just to see me. He stayed with me and we spent three days together. We were intimate and it was incredible, but the whole time was incredible. We got along so nicely, there was nothing awkward and it felt like we had been together a long time. We talked a lot about our lives and to me it seemed like we really were connecting. Either he's a superb actor or it was real. The night he left, he sent me texts from his train throughout most of his journey and then....crickets. Two or three days went by before he popped up on my phone again (I was hanging back, giving him space). I "received" him from that with no animosity, even though at that point even 2/3 days seemed odd given how much we communicated before. Then another 2/3 days went by with nothing. I suppose I made a mistake and I contacted him -- I was just sort of dying to hear from him. He was responsive but not "sweet" like he had been before he came to see me. Again I then hung back. More crickets for 2/3 days. This went on two more times before I "cracked". I told him I got the hint that he was no longer invested, and asked him not to contact me unless that changed. I missed the sweet version of him I had earlier. I'm not saying I needed 24/7 contact from him, but with the distance, I needed something more than "s'up" (which all the sudden became his default opening line -- when prior he was very chatty and interested). My question is -- did I get out of something where he would continue to disappear on me, OR was his "disappearing" really normal and something I should have been more "chill" about in such early days? I suppose I thought that if a man really had a great time and was clear about what he wanted (a girlfriend), he wouldn't leave me hanging like he did? Or was my being kind of upset about the change in contact/communication style showing him that I'm "crazy"? I'm so confused by dating. I really like/d this man -- so much -- but I also want to protect myself, because I've had real jerks before. It seems like no matter what I do, all I meet are men who make me feel "crazy" by not being totally honest and upfront with me, not being steady and/or reliable in their contact, etc. Easy things that I do from the outset, but rarely seem to find reciprocated. Any insight here, anyone?

Anonymous said...

Hi, a wee update from me (March 7th 0907) I had sent him "I can't do this anymore I've tried please stop texting me. I can't be just friends it's to hard". I then started no contact. It was 18 days in total with nc outwith work but I still saw him in work and we acted as though everything was normal. I left work to go on a course and after 6 days of total nc (bringing it to the 18 days) he messaged wishing me luck on my course?! It's been 3 days and I haven't replied as after reading through alot of posts this is what they do. He never replied to my message and then reappears trying to talk as normal and usually I wld just start texting again (this has happened on 2 occasions previously) this time I haven't. I am moving on with my life and it is getting easier but I had hoped for some sort of reply of more substance :(

Gem50 said...

@ the Ladies,
I just found a great show on OWN: It's Not You It's Men. Just watched four shows; most of the conversations were great and the message is clear for women: Value yourself.

@Ms. Mirror, They had The Player author on; he's written another book The Truth -- says it came from not being happy with being a Player. They didn't give him much air time, must've been a reason.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
"The Player author [The Game]. . .he's written another book The Truth -- says it came from not being happy with being a Player."

Being a player leads you to a life of loneliness - one where you cater to your ego, instead of fulfilling your soul. I've got plenty to say about this man, but I don't want to give him that much attention either LOL.

However, I would like to know how he's going to help heal the entire generation of men that he's poisoned, through his own admittance "I am not the hero in this tale. I am the villain. . .follow-up to The Game. . .that jump-started the international "seduction community" [PUA] and made Strauss a household name."

I'd also like to know how he intends to help heal all of the women who were victims, now permanently scarred, of the emotional abuse and manipulation The Game instructs men to use on them.

It's amazing the extent of the damage an extremely insecure individual can cause.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Fri, Mar 11, 10:45 PM,
"I should also explain that he's really good looking, and so for him to be on text with me so much, and every night late into the night, seemed to show me he *isn't* a player, since he wasn't out on the field, playing (he was at home, texting with me)."

But - how do you KNOW he was at home? And how do you know that even if he was, he didn't have similar conversations going via text with other women as well? When a man begins to immediately give a woman the impression that there's hope for a relationship, when in reality he doesn't even know the women very well yet, it's a red flag. When someone goes to great lengths to get you to believe in an "illusion" that does not yet exist - it's a red flag that they're attempting to BS you into buying what they're selling (an illusion and the "idea" of something).

"I needed something more than "s'up" (which all the sudden became his default opening line -- when prior he was very chatty and interested)."

That's what I mean. When dating, you cannot buy into the idea or the illusion that many men will attempt to get you to believe in. Particularly when their ACTIONS do NOT align with their WORDS.

A man that is genuinely interested in a woman will not let a month go by without seeing her. Instead, he will rearrange his plans and MAKE time for her. When a man is genuinely interested, his ACTIONS will line up with those WORDS.

"My question is -- did I get out of something where he would continue to disappear on me, OR was his "disappearing" really normal and something I should have been more "chill" about in such early days?"

Had this man not so strongly attempted to convince you that he wanted a relationship here and instead, clarified that he was simply casually dating - then this time away would've been normal and acceptable, because that's the definition of "casual" dating (irregular and sporadic).

However, the fact that he attempted to deceive you into believing he WAS serious when in reality it appears that he was NOT, and was only casually dating. . .this is not acceptable and it's a sign of things to come. Anything that starts off deceitful is sure to end that way as well :-(

"I suppose I thought that if a man really had a great time and was clear about what he wanted (a girlfriend), he wouldn't leave me hanging like he did?"

Exactly.

"Or was my being kind of upset about the change in contact/communication style showing him that I'm "crazy"?"

In this case, all it showed him was that - you were onto him. You were onto the fact that his WORDS did NOT align with his ACTIONS, and that something was "off" about the situation.

"all I meet are men who make me feel "crazy" by not being totally honest and upfront with me, not being steady and/or reliable in their contact, etc."

You're not alone dear. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of women reading and sharing stories here experiencing the same exact thing you're experiencing. And you nailed it when you said "make me feel "crazy" by not being totally honest and upfront with me."

That's what happens when you attempt to deceive people and you manipulate them. Their mind cannot rest because their gut and instincts keep sending warnings that something is amiss and not right.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

I often say that women are not born crazy. And common sense tells you that when a woman is acting crazy, in almost all instances, it's because they're being manipulated and lied to and that treatment is what's causing their reaction. Man or woman, when you're being lied to, it's very upsetting and yes - you react negatively to it. It's a very natural, human response to being deceived.

When the right man comes along dear - you'll know it. The right man will not make you feel anxious and worried. Instead, he will go to great lengths to make you feel secure and carefree.

When you find yourself dating a men, or men, that only cause you to feel anxious, worried and confused. . .get the hell away from them. Because a good man does not create these responses or feelings in a woman ;-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, been with a DM for nearly a year. Relationship has been hot and cold from the start. He disappears for several days at a time, only to reappear with no explanations. When asked directly about why, his reasons are always “working” and “sleeping”. I cannot check up on him as this is long distance. He always tells me he wants a relationship. So here I am waiting around for that to happen.

How do you tell if a man who does this is not just a good guy who is simply has reservations about you as a GF? Thus the hot and cold behaviors. Or if he is deceitful and simply stringing you along for a FWB arrangement? An authentic guy would probably not “tell” a woman outright that he sees red flags and is unsure about her.

So how does a woman figure this out? How do I know if I am doing something to cause the flaky behaviors?

Alice

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Alice,
"How do you tell if a man who does this is not just a good guy who is simply has reservations about you as a GF?"

You're giving him too much power here. YOU also have power over the final decision as well. You can approach dating passively (waiting for things to happen, and then reacting to them afterwards), or pro-actively (making things happen, and making decisions for yourself).

In this situation, you're passively waiting for HIM to make a decision about YOU. Instead of YOU making a decision about HIM and deciding that a year's worth of investment from you is more than enough time for a man to decide if he'd like to proceed into something more serious with you or not.

See the difference?

Being passive gives HIM the power to decide if there will be a relationship here or not. Being pro-active gives YOU the power to decide that for yourself. And based on what you've seen, and the year's time you've invested - regretfully, I'm going to say that your decision should be to move on :-(

"An authentic guy would probably not “tell” a woman outright that he sees red flags and is unsure about her."

An authentic man that is seriously genuinely interested in a relationship with a woman. . .would not take a year to make up his mind about her.

Men who are genuinely interested take very specific ACTIONS (not just WORDS) that move the relationship along into more "serious" territory over time. A man that is doing nothing but more of the same isn't taking you, or the relationship in any specific direction at all. Instead, he's just running you around in circles.

"So how does a woman figure this out?"

By ignoring WORDS, and observing ACTIONS.

When a man's words do not align with his actions, it's a red flag that something is not right. When a man SAYS he genuinely interested, but then does absolutely nothing and takes no ACTIONS to move that relationship along - then he's not being honest with you (he's stringing you along).

When a man says he is genuinely interested, and then takes actions that fall in line with that (i.e. calling regularly, being consistent and reliable, maintaining regular contact, asking to see you more, making more time for you, asking you for a commitment, telling you he loves you, etc.) - then you know he's a man that's genuinely interested and serious about you.

Because his ACTIONS fall in line with his WORDS.

"How do I know if I am doing something to cause the flaky behaviors?"

I don't see how anything you're doing could possibly cause this man to need to sleep more - or work more ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello MOA,

I just meet a guy from online dating site.What does it mean when a guy still keep old photos publicly of his ex on Facebook?It is mostly photos of him and her.He told me that he broke up since more than a year.The reason of their break up was at some point he feels like they are just friends.He was not happy with her but no cheating involved.He has no recent pics of his ex though but his ex keep liking his recent posts.He didn't know of course that i am looking on his Fb profile.

Thanks MOA ,just curious :)

Anonymous said...

Hi mirror, I'm the anonymous from March 9th at 4:30 pm... Thank you for your response! I wanted to post because on Saturday I actually heard from 2 different men that I haven't heard from in awhile (different than the guy I mentioned) ... One I last heard from in September, the other one I last heard from around 3 weeks ago... It's so strange how stuff like this happens in spurts or something... I think it shows that no contact really does work if you stick to it.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sun, Mar 20, 1:15 PM,
"What does it mean when a guy still keep old photos publicly of his ex on Facebook?"

This probably means different things to different people, but to me - it appears the man is still hung up on his ex and still "holding onto her" in a sense. . .by not willingly letting go of the images, pictures, experiences shared, etc. from the past.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I dated this guy 5months ago, we went on a few dates and talked a bunch, I have to admit there were redflags in the beginning but I chose to ignore them and continued to talk to and engage with him. At the end of the 2nd date (literally) he told me he wasn't looking for a relationship any time soon and was only looking for sex. That didn't sit well with me, because I wanted a relationship with him. We parted ways for the night (i never did anything physical with him) and after that date I never heard from him again, but I stupidly texted and called him on and off, for over a month after that, trying to get him to want to engage with me again, hoping somehow I could change his mind. I know it was definitely stupid on my part to do that, but I did it. Anyway, I recently found out he got married. I'm pretty sure he was dating both of us at the same time, but not 100% certain. I guess it just hurts and I need to vent. The type of woman he decided to marry is definitely more wild than me, and has multiple children by multiple men. It makes me wonder if he was emotionally unavailable, and perhaps still is, and decided to marry someone is possibly just as emotionally unavailable as him? People are fake a lot, some people even seem to fake entire personas and relationships/marriages, for the sake of others approval. Then I also think to myself, maybe *I'm* the one who is emotionally unavailable, because I didn't give him a fighting chance with me back when we dated. I was pretty stern with him back when we dated because I sensed him playing games with me. I know I should be proud of myself for putting him in check when I did, but it's also was the opposite of being a "vulnerable feminine woman", and the opposite of playing the dating game correctly I suppose. I guess I'm upset that I never got closure from him, and my feelings of inadequacy since he only wanted sex with me for some reason, and went on to marry someone who I view as much less classier than myself. I consider myself a nice girl, but nice girls never win obviously. What are your thoughts on this?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 8, 8:42 PM,
"I dated this guy 5months ago. . .he told me he wwas only looking for sex. . .I recently found out he got married. . .It makes me wonder if he was emotionally unavailable, and perhaps still is, and decided to marry someone is possibly just as emotionally unavailable as him?"

Well, "like attracts like" dear. And chances are, this was his girlfriend at the time and he was only seeking sex because he was cheating on her, which is why he couldn't enter into a relationship with anyone. He was probably already in one.

And the reality is that he may have married a woman he knows he can easily cheat on, thus giving him a life where he can have his cake and eat it, too. If she's wild, who knows, she could be cheating on him too and they're a lot like each other.

"Then I also think to myself, maybe *I'm* the one who is emotionally unavailable, because I didn't give him a fighting chance with me back when we dated."

What fighting chance - sex? Nah. He flat out told you he only wanted to use you (for sex). Nothing you would've done or said would've changed that. And again, chances are he was already in a relationship with her at the time and simply looking to cheat on her.

"I was pretty stern with him back when we dated because I sensed him playing games with me. I know I should be proud of myself for putting him in check when I did, but it's also was the opposite of being a "vulnerable feminine woman"

But as woman, you need to protect yourself from those seeking to use you. You cannot be a vulnerable feminine woman with every single man you meet or you're going to make the perfect victim. As a woman you should only be vulnerable with those that are being vulnerable with you - and this man was not doing that. He was guarded and closed off. So why should you have opened yourself up to him, when he was completely closed off to you?

Had you done that, he would've used you sexually, disappeared, and damaged your self-esteem and confidence.

"I guess I'm upset that I never got closure from him"

You did get closure - he never contacted you again because he realize that he couldn't use you sexually because you were too smart to fall for that. He revealed himself to be a scumbag, and you showed him you were a valuable wise woman. That's closure.

"my feelings of inadequacy since he only wanted sex with me for some reason"

His effed-up-ness is not a reflection of YOU, it's a reflection of HIM. The fact that this man only wanted to screw women has absolutely nothing to do with you. The fact that he was most likely already in a relationship at the time has absolutely nothing to do with you. None of that is under your control. He was like this prior to even meeting you.

"What are your thoughts on this?"

My thoughts on this are that you did a fantastic job of protecting yourself from being used here by a less than honorable man that had nothing to offer you. These two sound like they deserve each other. . .and you sound like you deserve MUCH better than the likes of him dear ;-)



Anonymous said...

Continued, "about the man whom I dated who said he didn't want a relationship and I recently found out he got married." We dated in October and he married her in January. I just found out these facts. I definitely agree with you that he was more than likely in a relationship with her at the time that we talked and went out. I'm still shocked by his character. Im coming to realize, we literally do not have any idea who we are actually dating/talking to, until after a considerable amount of time as passed, all the more reason to watch what he says and behaves to allow those major redflags to come up to allow us to bolt before we make a bad decision for ourselves. I guess I can take this as a learning experience. I shouldn't had given him as much time as I did in the first place. Definitely going to be implementing the one strike youre out/redflag youre out policy next time to avoid anymore wasted time on dbags. Love your site, thanks for your input :))

Anonymous said...

Been seeing a guy long distance for about 6 weeks. We see each other once a week when he drives here. I have not been to his home yet. At the start, he told me his house went into foreclosure. He was also paying off creditors as his wife had gone on spending sprees. They are now divorced and he pays alimony.

When I first met him he bought an old beater to ‘restore his credit”. He drove to see me in this older car all the time. Last week he came here and all of a sudden he had a brand new $39,000 Ford F150. In the back of my mind, I questioned how he could afford this but did not ask as it is quite personal. He said it was new but did not offer any other details.

I am concerned that another woman might be helping him out with a car loan. He does disappear for two days at a time, then reappear out of the woodwork. Also sometimes (not always) he won’t reply to my texts for 6-8 hours later or the next day. I don’t know much about his personal life yet either. I have not mentioned my concern to him about the erratic contact patterns for fear of appearing clingy.

Why would he even think of buying an expensive vehicle when he has so many debts and problems with credit?

Am I being paranoid?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 16, 4:41 PM,
"Why would he even think of buying an expensive vehicle when he has so many debts and problems with credit?"

Some people simply do not make good financial decisions for themselves dear. And it's possible that the older vehicle was no longer reliable as transportation to get him to work, and he may have been forced to get a newer one as a result.

"Am I being paranoid?"

It's probably time to have a date somewhere near his hometown, so that you can use that as an excuse to quickly stop by his house while you two are out ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello. I went out on a first date one week ago. We really hit it off, stayed up til 2am talking about all kinds of stuff. We have a lot in common. He took me to a wonderful, expensive restaurant for dinner. He asked what my schedule is with my child and we are pretty much on the same schedule. He said he was glad we got together. He made comments about little things that I showed differently from other women. He got in contact with me the next day, but now I haven't heard from him since. So, it's been like going on 5 days. I know he's busy as he just had his daughter all weekend and he bought some property out of town that he's working on as well. My question is. I texted the same day (or later that afternoon since we were up so late) thank you and that I enjoyed the date. When he reached out the following day, I responded and mentioned getting together Friday if available, or maybe next week. I left it light and didn't request an answer. I just stated Friday could work for me if he was also available or maybe the following week and I ended it with Good night. I never heard back. Should I have avoided doing that. I'm sure you'll say yes. But, do you think I'll eventually end up hearing from him?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 25, 6:31 PM,
"I texted the same day (or later that afternoon since we were up so late) thank you and that I enjoyed the date. . .When he reached out the following day, I responded and mentioned getting together Friday if available, or maybe next week. . .Should I have avoided doing that."

In the future, avoid appearing too eager - and don't step into the masculine lead role in an attempt to take control of the situation to speed it along.

I know that probably wasn't your intent. However, this is generally how men interpret that behavior from women. As a woman, all you're required to do when dating is decide if you want to submit to the MAN'S lead. You are not required to TAKE the lead (initiate contact, ask/invite on dates, etc.), because that's the man's job. And unfortunately, when a woman takes on that role, it can appear to the man that she's ready to "fast track" things into the relationship zone. Instead of remaining carefree, fun and a bit hard to get, the woman is now behaving slightly anxious, eager and as if dating regularly with consistency is now expected take place from that day forward (i.e. heading towards a relationship fast).

And if a man senses that "expectations" have now been placed on him before he's ready or has agreed to them, or before he has had the opportunity to casually date (irregular, sporadic) the woman in an effort to get to know her better - he may place some distance into the situation in an effort to slow things down and regain some control, lessen those expectations and take some pressure off himself.

Casual dating is exactly that - it's irregularly done, it's sporadic in nature, and it's free of commitment or obligation. So when casually dating, let the man lead. Let him initiate contact and let him ask for dates. You then remain slightly out of reach (so his interest is held and he continues to reach for you), don't become "predictable" (don't expect anything as many women do until he's agreed to provide "more") and maintain the appearance of being emotionally balanced, carefree and "fun."

Men are drawn to that type of energy and attitude in a woman as it signals independence and confidence. If a man senses that a woman may end up "depending" on him to provide her with her happiness (versus remaining independent and carefree in her own life, with or without him), he may disappear.

So in the meantime, continue dating other men casually (no sex) in an effort to get to know them better (so you can determine if they're even someone you want to date with any regularity), and continue moving forward with your life. Don't contact him (apply no pressure), and don't question him (don't show anxiety, insecurity), and chances are - he'll circle back around to catch up with you ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you! You are so articulate and it makes so much sense. After 6 days, he contacted me yesterday. This is what he said: Hey, I just wanted to say Hi and let you know I totally spaced getting back to you. It wasn't intentional. Just got crazy busy and forgot...I guess I'm starting to realize why I'm single. Ha ha. Hope all is well. I responded in a teasing manner that yah, that could pretty much keep a guys single, lol. I said no worries and proceeded to say that I'm doing great and have this and that going on. We chatted for almost an hour. Still no second date planned, but I think that's how he rolls. Thanks again for the advice.

piscesgirl said...

APRIL 26 2016 @ 5:37 -great reminder for us ladies Mirror. I think as women we do get anxious and insecure and want to push things along with men and as tempting as it may seem I always have to remind myself that that is the man's job and my only job as you mention is to submit to his lead. Yesterday I seen a guy at the gym who looked exactly like this fitness model that im slightly obsessed with (Steve Cook-if any of you are familiar) and I couldn't help staring at him and I was hoping he would come and talk to me and he did! I was really happy and we chatted for a bit and i told him he looked like Steve Cook which he was obviously flattered by and I was pretty calm and confident when speaking to him but he never asked for my number or instagram or facebook and I was tempted to ask him if he was on instagram but I stopped myself and then later he asked me what time I was going to be at the gym tomorrow and I told him 7pm and he said he would go around that time so im kind of nervous to see him today because he's really good looking and fit but hopefully he will be there and we can talk and get to know each other a little better .. also I met a doctor this weekend when I was out with my girlfriends he was talking to my girlfriend at first but then he noticed her engagement ring so we started talking and before he left he got my number -he seems really nice and charismatic and obviously intelligent because he's a doctor and he did message me yesterday and said we should all get together again for drinks as in a group date with his friends and my friends and I don't know if that means I got friend zoned he never messaged me today either but regardless Im not messaging him. My girlfriend told me I should go for it and message him but I told her if hes interested enough he knows where to find me. Looking back now anytime ive tried to take the man role and push things along I ended up getting burned or rejected and I don't want a man to think im too eager or desperate and that's exactly how men see when women do all the work like that the lazy ones don't mind but the real men they like to take the lead role. I would rather wait for a man who will do anything to try to see me and spend time with me because he sees my value and worth.

piscesgirl said...

Hi ladies <3 so an update about hot steve cook lookalike from the gym -he showed up at the gym yesterday like he said he would and I was happy to see him we worked out and flirted a bit which another crush of mine at the gym was witness too and i was fine with that because a little jealousy can be a good thing sometimes hehe. My girlfriend also met him and thought he was pretty charming and good looking but im so sad cause she asked him how old he was and he said 23! ughh sucks cause im 31! I never discussed our ages with him yet but he told my girlfriend that he thought i was 26 but she never told him my actual age. I feel like that's just too much of an age gap for me even though im attracted to him and he seems pretty into me. My coworker told me I shouldn't even think about age and that its just a number but I don't know about that cause ive tried dating younger guys and they don't always have their shit together which is annoying if you are a woman looking to settle down in the near future. Anyways he did get my number before leaving and said he wanted to extend his stay in the city to get to know me better before moving to another city(that's another factor he's planning to move) but even if things don't work out at least im flattered that a young attractive fit guy is into me and it is also good practise talking to a guy and learning to be more confident and even though he is quite a bit younger than me I would still expect him to take the man lead ie ask for my number and ask me out. So even if things don't work out with a guy that you are into there is always something positive you can take from the encounter :)

Anonymous said...

Ok, so back from April 28. That was my last text message from him and after we chatted for almost an hour. It was great chatting, but no plans for a second date and I didn't bring it up. It's going on two weeks now. I mean, if he was blowing me off or not into me at all would he have texted me that or at all? Can they easily go a couple of weeks without communication when casually dating? It just seems to be pointless in a way, yet I realize men can't multitask. And, this one owns his own business and has his daughter 80%, so maybe this is all I can expect until he has time to get together again or a few more times and then decide if things should progress. Even the first date was like pulling teeth somewhet. He couldn't give me a specific time until the end of the day because he didn't know when work would end and then how traffic with his commute would turn out. So, idk. Part of me thinks he's not that into me or just not write it off yet. And I know I need to go on with my life, etc....and I am, but you know...our minds never sit still. Anyway, thanks!

MESOConfuse said...

Dear Mirror,

Been following your page for awhile now. These articles and yours + everybody's stories are so helpful and gave me a whole lot of perspective. Thank you!!!!

Yet, today I just need one more voice of reasoning directed specifically at me, so that I can finally put the nail to this dating mess coffin.

Met him four months ago.. Around month 3, he started disappearing 1, 2, 3 days at a time. The biggest gaps was 7 days when then I mistakenly texted him to literally said I'm done and to said goodbye.

My question is should I even try to say goodbye and give him a piece of my mind or just disappearing on his ass altogether?

Thanks for always being here for me and others!!!!




He convinced me by reappearing and treated me to number of lovely dates. However, these past two weeks.. we only texted and not even everyday.

Today is my birthday .. I can't believe it just yet, but this is the FIRST guy I dated that not only calling me nor texting me.. But decided that the best way to wish me birthday after not talking to me for 3 days is to post it on Facebook!!!!!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 11, 12:57 AM,
"if he was blowing me off or not into me at all would he have texted me that or at all?"

Only time will tell the true tale dear. The level of his interest is being tested right now, and in time you will soon find out whether or not he's genuinely interested or not.

"Can they easily go a couple of weeks without communication when casually dating?"

Yes, quite easily. Because you have to remember that when people are casually dating, nine times out of ten, that means they're casually dating others as well. This is especially true when dating online. And when that's the case, weeks can easily pass before you've got the time, or have even dated enough others, to determine if that person is someone you'd like to see again and continue dating.

"Even the first date was like pulling teeth somewhet. He couldn't give me a specific time until the end of the day because he didn't know when work would end and then how traffic with his commute would turn out."

That's when you thank him for the invite, but kindly suggest another more convenient time instead. Never give a man the impression that you'll wait around on him for last minute date requests. If you do, he will never be respectful of your time. Because if that was good enough for you once, he'll consider it good enough for you from that day forward.

So in situations like that, you say something like, "I was really looking forward to seeing you, however, we're going to need to schedule something in advance. I've made other obligations for today, so how about Saturday at 7PM instead?" And you give him a date that is at least 3 days later - so that he immediately understands that:

1) YOUR time is also VALUABLE.
2) You're in DEMAND, and OTHERS are demanding your time as well.
3) If he wants to see you, he's going to have to provide you with the common courtesy of an advanced notice.
4) You're scarcely available, which makes you HIGHLY VALUABLE

That's how you signal to a man that you're a real catch ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

He makes himself scarce to YOU. And this works both ways. Don't immediately buy the fact that what he's claiming is true. Men tend to play games when dating. They don't necessarily mean to be ignorant about it - they see it more as "fun" and toying behavior that keeps a woman wanting more of them. And all the while, they're testing the woman's emotional stability as well (will she go bonkers and have a meltdown and blow up his phone?).

For instance, this is a ridiculous statement to make, and I simply do NOT buy it:

"He couldn't give me a specific time until the end of the day because he didn't know when work would end and then how traffic with his commute would turn out."

Please. Seriously. Okay, yea, we all work overtime. And okay, yea, we all have a commute that may include traffic. But seriously, first of all, if you're THAT BUSY - why are you trying to date in the first place?

Secondly, we all know when the VERY latest is that we'll make it home on a busy day. So say your day ends at 5PM and you usually work some overtime. But most days, you're out of the office by 7 or 8PM.

And you have a half hour commute. But when there's traffic, it can be at least an hour. The answer as to your availability is not that difficult to arrive at. Even if you give yourself leeway and assume you'll work till 8PM, and your commute can be an hour or possibly an hour and fifteen minutes - that means you'd become available around 9:15PM.

Tack another 15 minutes onto that for good measure - and voila' - if you set a date for 9:30PM that night, there's a 99.9% likelihood that you'd be able to make it.

This crap of playing clueless and stringing women along, and giving them a song and dance about how in demand you are, and how valuable your time is, and how busy you are - is usually one of a few things:

1) The man is simply being lazy and taking it for granted already that you'll be there, waiting on him no matter what (cause you're desperate).

2) The man is only half-interested and he's not making you a priority.

3) The man is testing your emotional strength (and playing games).

It's not that difficult to set a date in advance - so don't let them make you believe that it is ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@MESOConfuse,
"My question is should I even try to say goodbye and give him a piece of my mind or just disappearing on his ass altogether?"

Why explain yourself or your behavior to someone who isn't explaining themselves or their behavior to you? And why grant peace of mind to someone who doesn't do the same for you, and instead - leaves you hanging?

When THEY disappear, YOU disappear. . .and all they hear are crickets chirping off in the distance of a silent night ;-)

That's how you stand strong and don't permit a man to run you over and leave you for dead. You signal to him immediately that, if he's going to treat you poorly, then he's not going to get any consideration from you in return.

Then he knows he has to respect you - otherwise, he doesn't get to talk to you or see you. If he wants treated with respect, then he has to treat you with respect. And you're going to see to it that that's exactly what he does by keeping a level playing field. What's good the goose is good for the gander.

"But decided that the best way to wish me birthday after not talking to me for 3 days is to post it on Facebook!!!!!"

Are you going to reward that poor treatment - with MORE of your attention and affection? I wouldn't if I were you ;-)

Anonymous said...

"When THEY disappear, YOU disappear." Fine. I get it. Absolutely.

But: how do they come to treat you with respect when they disappear, and, by definition, are not SEEING that you have done the same to them? They are not on notice that you disappeared.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 16, 9:56 AM,
"how do they come to treat you with respect when they disappear"

They may, or they may not. There are no guarantees in life.

People respect those who respect themselves. So if you tolerate poor treatment and issue no consequences for it, they will continue to disrespect you. If you stand up for yourself and signal that you will not tolerate poor treatment, they will respect you for that (even if they don't like it).

"not SEEING that you have done the same to them?"

If you're not contacting them - they see that. It's noticed. Especially if you've been the one to initiate contact in the past, and now suddenly, you're no longer doing that.

"They are not on notice that you disappeared."

They don't have to be put on notice. Your absence from their life is "notice" enough.

And if they don't notice your absence from their life. . .then that tells you that their level of interest was not high or genuine to begin with - and they're not worth worrying about or continuing to date as a result.

Anonymous said...

Well, a guy who I really liked and who disappeared on me for a few weeks at a time after our last three dates I taught a lesson to after our last date: I went out with someone new at the disappearer's favorite coffee bar; the disappearer showed up on my date; and I ignored him.

I was on another guy's time--he wanted me to talk to him and/or leave with him. I refused to do so.

He has never called me since then.

I though he cared.

Why hasn't he called? He looked like he wanted me back.

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong--I liked the guy I was ona date with; he is cute, terrific, and I am still seeing him.

But...
I did like the disappearer. And, when he saw me with someone else, his jaw dropped (literally), he was so shocked. Then he got angry and stood there, wanting to talk to me. I didn't budge.

I had every right to see someone else and did nothing wrong in seeing someone else.

Seems like he wants me. But why no call?

I never initiated calls, btw.

Anonymous said...

Don't get me wrong--I liked the guy I was ona date with; he is cute, terrific, and I am still seeing him.

But...
I did like the disappearer. And, when he saw me with someone else, his jaw dropped (literally), he was so shocked. Then he got angry and stood there, wanting to talk to me. I didn't budge.

I had every right to see someone else and did nothing wrong in seeing someone else.

Seems like he wants me. But why no call?

I never initiated calls, btw.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 16, 2:07 PM,
"a guy who I really liked and who disappeared on me for a few weeks at a time. . .I though he cared. Why hasn't he called?"

A man who genuinely cares and is genuinely interested - doesn't disappear on the woman for weeks at a time :-(

"Seems like he wants me. But why no call?"

Well, again - a man that is genuinely interested in a woman does not disappear on her. And the fact that he gets jealous when he sees her out with someone know really doesn't indicate genuine interest either.

All that indicates is that his ego was damaged.

It doesn't indicate genuine interest. Genuinely interested men treat the woman they're interested in as a priority. They make time for her, stay in regular contact with her, ask her out on dates regularly, and treat her special.

They don't take her for granted that she'll be there, no matter how poorly they treat her, and disappear on her and then act childish when they realize she isn't going to put her life on hold for them and wait around for them to decide whether they like her or not.

"I liked the guy I was on a date with; he is cute, terrific, and I am still seeing him. . . .I had every right to see someone else and did nothing wrong."

You do have the right to date others as there are no commitments in place here, and if the man you were on the date with is treating you right and you like him. . .sounds like you've made the right decision for yourself in moving on.

The only thing I probably wouldn't have done, is take the new date to a place where you know the old date frequents. Not only will that look like a deliberate move to the man who disappeared on you, it's also very unfair to the new man you went on the date with. And he may wonder if you used him just to create jealousy in the man who disappeared. And I imagine that having that experience and being unknowingly placed into that situation was probably awkward and uncomfortable for him :-(

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous 5/16 9:56a,
"how do they come to treat you with respect...are not SEEING that you have done the same to them?"

Just as Ms. Mirror says, people notice something is different when you change your behavior. Silence is a very strong sound that people hear. When you reach out to someone and they don't respond, you hear it. NC is about letting him hear the silence from you.

NC is not about the other person, it is about you. It is about backing off from a person or situation that does not bring you happiness, and stepping towards living your life in a way that does. When you do this, and he realizes it (which he will if you allow it time), he will respect you.

When a man treats us badly, if anyone treats us badly, it is about them, not us. What we continue to participate in after being treated badly IS about us.

Breath, do nice things for yourself, keep busy, and take life one day at a time focusing on what is best for you. Use Ms. Mirror's advice that she shares throughout her articles. They are as good as gold. :)

Anonymous said...

"A deliberate move..." What do you mean by this? How would it look like such a move to the disappearer? HOw does it make me look to him?

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous May 16, 2016 @9:17 PM,
It makes you look like you are not going to put up with his shit.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.The guy that i am dating is always late for 15 to 20 mins three times in a row.He was only on time in our first meeting.I am confused.I tried to tell him that i like guys who are punctual.He got the message ,so the next date he came earlier but then the next date he was late again and saying sorry I was late ,traffic ,etc.. He always picked me up from my house.I can endure but somehow i am thinking that he is not respecting the time and it bothers me now.

Then another guy that i am talking online would like to meet me in person but i always refused him because he doesn't talk to me on the phone.Then he disappeared and one day he contacted me again saying that he would love to see me but talking on the phone to someone that he doesn't meet yet in person is awkward for him and told me once he knows me very well in person he will begin to call me and he would be more talkative .Would i give chance to this guy?I need your advice MOA.
And i really appreciate that you are here for us ,helping us women to think and act correctly :)
Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart .

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous May 16 9:17p,
You stated earlier that you brought this new date to a place you know is your old date's favorite spot. Did you do that "deliberately?" That is what is meant from, "a deliberate move..."

If it was to get the old date jealous, or to make the statement, "you are not going to put up with his shit," as Anonymous May 17, 9:53a says, I don't see it as successful --- rather it looks like drama.

Why mix sugar (the new date) with salt (the old date)?

If you wanted a reaction, and if the new date understood what was going on, you'll probably get two.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 17, 2:41 PM,
"he is not respecting the time and it bothers me now"

If it's bothering you and you feel he's disrespecting your time, you have the option to decide that he's "disqualified" as dateable. Meaning, he's not worth dating because this early on, he's already showing that he's not making you a priority, and that he's not respectful of your time. . .and determining that ultimately, dating a man like this isn't going to make you happy.

You can't change people - but you CAN decide if they're worth placing more of your energy and time into.

"he contacted me again saying that he would love to see me but talking on the phone to someone that he doesn't meet yet in person is awkward for him"

If he thinks speaking on the telephone to a stranger is awkward -- how does he think a woman feels placing herself alone into a situation with a complete stranger face-to-face -- without ever speaking to him first?

Sounds like an excuse to "fast-track" the dating situation and take shortcuts to me. Also sounds like he's thinking about himself, and not about the women he's dating and what he's actually asking, and expecting, them to put THEMSELVES through.

Because even when you're in a public place, sitting across the table from a total stranger you've never even spoken to is EXTREMELY awkward for a woman. Not to mention, this can also make her feel very vulnerable.

Additionally, a woman can identify pretty early on via speaking to a man if she's going to feel a connection with him - one that then helps her determine if it's even worth her time meeting him face-to-face. He's not giving you this opportunity, which makes him appear a bit suspicious. Why the rush? Why no conversation first? Why is he not thinking of the woman? Why is he attempting to take shortcuts and fast-track the situation?

And why is he not even willing to take 15 minutes of his time to place a phone call first?

If he's not willing to take things at your pace, and he's already showing you that he's not willing to take YOUR needs into consideration - then is he even really worth meeting?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"told me once he knows me very well in person he will begin to call me and he would be more talkative"

That doesn't make an ounce of sense to me at all. He'll only call you and speak to you AFTER he gets to know you face-to-face? How in the world does this man intend to get to know you. . .when he's unwilling to even speak to you? And if he cannot even bring himself to speak to you for 15 minutes on the phone, how is he going to converse with you face-to-face then?

The whole thing sounds like an excuse to "check out the goods" before deciding you're worth putting any of HIS energy into. To me it translates to, "I want to see what you look like first. If I like what I see, then I'll speak to you. If I don't like what I see, I won't bother. But until I see you, I'm not even willing to speak to you."

Sounds pretty rude to me. Sounds superficial and shallow.

If a man isn't willing to take your needs into consideration in order to date you, then in my opinion, he's showing you his character as a man - he's showing you a taste of what it would be like to date him. He's showing you that it would be all about HIM, and not about YOU.

He's showing you that he's not willing to compromise. He's showing you that your needs don't matter and that his are of ultimate priority. He's showing you that he's not considerate. He's showing you that he's not flexible.

All he has to do to meet you face-to-face is devote 15 minutes of him time to pleasant small talk on the phone. And when a man shows you that he's not even willing to do that small thing for you. . .he's showing you that most likely, he'd be just as unwilling to fulfill your needs when dating him. So why bother dating him or meeting him at all, ya' know?

This idea men have of forcing women to get all dressed up and run out the door to go sit across from a total stranger they've never even spoken to, in a situation that is uncomfortable and makes them feel vulnerable, and expecting success from that. . .is insane to me.

The situation can cause heightened anxiety for the woman, which can then cause her to "shut down" on the man during the date. . .even if she actually likes him.

Anonymous said...

OMG ! You are correct MOA! I will cease contact with these two guys.None of them can make me happy.

Thanks really for the fast reply .You are such an intelligent woman.I am really glad that i've found your site here.I can just write for free and received a good advice immediately.I really appreciate it.When i am confused you are there to help me.Yes thank you really ,you helped me a lot and it's not the first time :) You have such a good heart for helping people.Hope that MOA will always be here for us.Wish you all the best MOA !

Anonymous said...

I was not trying to make the new date jealous. Then, in my mind, it was--and is, still, now--OVER.

I am just shocked at his not pursuing more.

Anonymous said...

Mirror,

I ended a horrible situation with a Scorpio LD guy who made a habit of disappearing on me with no explanation. In fact, he rarely openly offered information about his daily activities or anyone in his life. Was beginning to think he was a loner. This flaky behavior really pulled my strings and I spent almost every waking day trying to figure him out. Wasting energy too, I might add. Turns out, after google researching and reading your wonderful articles, I concluded that he was "playing" me for an entire year.

He visited here a couple of times and threw his hands all over me with his "passion" which in turn got me all aroused. I ended up sleeping with him before the relationship developed. He fast tracked me right into the bedroom. I felt horrible about myself for allowing it. He got a free "hooker" for those nights. I got swept away in "lust". After he returned home from his visits here, he was cold, distant and took hours to respond to texts.

I was wondering why he wasn't calling me on the phone at all to talk. He preferred texting. I received morsels of attention in the form of sweet talk words every few days - "how is my beautiful princess, good morning sweetheart, how was your day", and the list goes on. I tried to get to know him at a deeper level with questions about dreams, goals, visions for the future. The weather was his favorite topic. I was always met with resistance after asking questions, he felt uncomfortable. At times he would simply ignore my questions about anything beyond small talk. I asked him once if he wanted to talk on the phone and stated that I wanted this. The guy's BS meter was running overtime. There wasn't any time (??). Someone who truly cares about you will suggest talking right away, especially if it is important to you.

He was also doing some "future faking" saying he can't wait for us to be together one day, he can't wait for me to be my wife, wish I could be there with you right now; we need to buy a house with a big back yard for your pets, blah, blah, blah. He was saying all of this and he wouldn't talk to me on the phone?? We saw each other and spent time together a handful of times? This cannot be real.

I also noticed inconsistencies in his stories. By the end, I never actually knew the truth about whether he was divorced or not! I dumped him months ago and he sent me a text one day saying how "hurt" he was for being dumped. And that any further communication should be initiated by me. WTF?

I have learned from your site an extremely important rule. Look at a man's actions, as they speak the truth. In my case, it was all talk, talk, talk, nothing more. I want to thank you so much for empowering women to recognize and never put up with this crap again. I feel so much stronger for reading all the articles on your site!

Hanna

Paloma said...

If someone is your soul mate, they will most definitely come back to you... its only a matter of time. If they don't, then you will meet a man that I call a healer... and he comes into your life to restore ~ author unknown


(I found this comment in an online discussion and thought that it was beautiful and wanted to share )

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Hanna,
I'm so very glad you've found the information here, and the stories shared by women here, helpful to you and your situation :-)

This man sounds like he was, in fact, a married man. And I find this part actually quite humorous:

"I dumped him months ago and he sent me a text one day saying how "hurt" he was for being dumped. And that any further communication should be initiated by me. WTF?"

Call me crazy, but when someone dumps you -- isn't it safe to assume that there will be NO MORE communication ever again LOL?

Yet this fool doesn't seem to want to accept that, and is assuming that you're so crazy about him that you can't possibly truly mean this. So he then insinuates that future communications need to be initiated by you. Meanwhile, he's just been dumped.

Wonder what it's like to live in a world where you think you're so great, that even when someone dumps you, you're still expecting to hear from them regularly?

Oh well. You know what they say - "ignorance is bliss" - and this guy must be chock full of it as he's pretty optimistic about the future here LOL ;-)

Gem50 said...

@ All the ladies,
Touching base to share a new experience. I've took a 5-week art class hosted by town art counsel. The instructor is a man, the class was at his house. Here's what I did differently than I would have a few years ago:

#1. After instructor sent email stating he didn't receive many responses from original list of interested parties, I responded requested confirmation that there would be more than myself taking the course because I did not feel comfortable going to a man's home that I did not know. He responded a bit snippy, and confirmed there were 2 to attend.

#2. During his class, I was cordial and respectful, but when he tried to push his choices on to me for my project, I politely repeated several times, "yes, that's nice..." and moved on to my choice.

#3. I was myself, I had fun, it was the Instructor who is my age, a 74-yr young married man of 51 years and me becoming friends. We chatted about life, did our projects, it became a really good time.

Week 3, 74 says something about my "husband." I laugh and say "I haven't had one of those for 30 years," but notice the Instructor paid a little extra attn. to that.

The instructor is an engineer by degree and trade and way off the charts with engineering stuff, and was originally so serious about the class.

Class4, the Instructor asks for help with an all day art event downtown. 74 says, "I'll be out of town that weekend." I whisper to 74, "He hasn't told us when yet." LOL

I feel bad for the Instructor because I get the feeling he doesn't have many friends and since Class 2, he's been walking us out of the house at the end of the night like a puppy watching his human leave. :(

So I tell the Instructor that I will check my schedule to see if I am available to help him.

The Instructor is emailing us information on supplies, etc. But I get the feeling there is more going on.

#4. The Instructor is also very pushy. He wants us to buy his package deals for supplies. I tell him I have a plan (and budget) so I won't be purchasing what he's offering. He wants us to stay later. I tell him that later doesn't work for me. I do let him know that I can help him during the art show.

-continued-

Gem50 said...

2 of 3
Class 5 is our last class and now he's coming up with reasons to stay in touch with me and 74. He's offering more and more, and I just listen. We end the evening saying we'll be in touch re: art event in two weeks.

Then two days later (Friday) I get this very long email from him regarding my art piece, my choices, that he now agrees is rather nice, he tells me he really is a fun guy, and asks if I would like to go to NYC Metropolitan Museum that Sunday, go to the Park, etc.

This surprised the heck out of me, and at first I thought NO WAY! because this guy is wrapped so tight and he is so pushy that I just wasn't interested.
But then I considered that he's not a BAD guy, he is so absorbed in his stuff that his social skills are rather lacking. He's not asking me to marry him, and we all need good people in our lives, even as friends, so I decide not to jump to conclusions (although I've already spent 15 hrs with him and 74).

#6a, 6b and 6c and 6d. I wait until that evening to thank him via email for the invite (mirrored his action). I said I was not available that weekend (3-day rule ladies), I did NOT give him an explanation, and gave him my cell phone number.

He called me Monday dinner time, left a vm and said he was going kayaking and would be out of range for a couple hours. He said if I wasn't able to reach him that he'd contact me next day.

#7. I didn't call him back.

Tuesday he emailed me asking me to go over his bio and a program for an engineering class he is going to do this summer with the art counsel. (??? I think to myself -- he's either trying to keep my attention or doesn't have a clue that I could be busy -- I did it by the way). We finally connect on phone Wednesday night for a bit. I tried to keep the conversation on the art event and what he needed me to do.

On Thursday he emailed asking me to come over Friday night to put some stuff together for me to do Saturday during the show, said he'd be home after 6. I figured he was looking for someone to come chat with him while he works.
I told him I had errands to run after work and I'd call him when I was done.
I was done about 7ish, and when I called, I rec'd an auto mssg of not being able to connect. I thought he was in his studio and no cell service, so decide to head over about 7:30 and he is home. He starts apologizing to me that his phone service was down and said he just sent me an email, that he didn't want me to think he stood me up, because that is not who he is. His email said the same thing.

So I stayed for a bit. He's not working on his art pieces. We talked for about an hour and then I said I had to go.

(continued)

Gem50 said...

3 of 3
I call him Saturday morning before I go over to meet him, and he's not ready. He asks me to get ice, I offer to bring stuff in my car... etc. So he's gone to set up and there I was schlepping stuff from his house to my car and just laughing to myself wondering how I get myself into these situations.

I do what I promised; I helped the entire day and during a lull he asks me if I would like to go to a Botanical garden with him that is about an hour away. Although he has started to wear on my nerves (I haven't spent 7 straight hours with one person in years LOL)I ask him when he would like to go. He said, "tomorrow."

#8 I tell him I am sorry, I am not available tomorrow and I don't give an explanation.

#9 As the day is ending, he doesn't say anything about getting a bite to eat or doing anything else on the way back, so I let him know that I can help him clear everything up until 5pm. (I committed to 10-4, but started at 9, and will end at 5). The Instructor looked at me so surprised and disappointed. I have no idea what he was thinking was going to happen.

So I helped pack up everything, loaded my vehicle, drove to his house, unpacked everything, and when it was all done, I said, "Gotta go!" As he followed me out of his house like a puppy again.

Now I am not sure about this guy. The stuff he told me he has done could be true, I guess, but it also could be made up. He also doesn't listen. He talks and talks, but is not aware of the listener's reception and makes little effort to hear from others. This could be due to who he is (he said he started working with computers at local university at the age of 10 in early 70's).

Anyway, this has been great practice for me. From the start my boundaries were clear and I kept to my own choices for the piece I made. I also have made it clear that last minute or next day dates don't work with me.

Thank you Ms. Mirror, I think I am finally getting the hang of this dating stuff.

Hugs to all :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
Sounds like possibly a lack of social skills here isn't helping this man much LOL ;-)

In particular, not being a good listener and instead, being more concerned with pushing your own agenda onto people is something that can keep even minor situations from really taking off in a positive manner.

Because his inability to listen is what I believe is causing him to miss all your cues.

In a way, he's using a bit of force. When he's then met with resistance as a result, or dismissal, he's not switching gears. . .because he's not able to really "listen" and read between the lines.

It's like he's a bird that keeps flying into a glass window, and doesn't hear the thud that results which signals that passage is blocked so a new one is needed - so he just keeps trying to crash through the glass LOL.

If he's a man you're interested in possibly getting to know better, the next time he suggests a last minute date, reply with something like, "I'd love to but I can't tonight. I'm free on [date and time] though." And see what he does.

If he doesn't hear that and instead continues asking for last minute dates - leave him be and just stand back as he continues trying to bash through the glass, instead of taking another easier route that would cause him less injury ;-)

Glad to see that you're open to getting out there though, and even entertaining the thought of getting to know men that, upon first glance, really don't seem all that interesting at first. You never know. He keeps up these antics and things could get real interesting, real quick because hopefully, he'd eventually figure out that some respectful advanced notice will do the trick here. Or at the very least, things could get really entertaining if nothing changes at all LOL ;-)

Gem50 said...

@Ms. Mirror,
What I neglected to add in previous message is when I declined the botanical garden trip, I did add something like, "You check your schedule and I'll check mine to see when it works for both of us." He didn't like that answer either LOL

It actually has been comical. When my choices did not match what he was teaching, and I raised my hand like a kid in class to express it (I WAS having fun)he would kind of twitch from whatever I was saying -- not a tic, but like a circuit in his brain was backfiring. For example, he said a patina would cover up our mistakes and when asking what color we wanted, I said I didn't want to patina my piece. CIRCUIT BACKFIRE! I explained I wanted to SEE my mistakes ANOTHER CIRCUIT BACKFIRE! because this was a learning process for me and I want to be able to see the changes as I continue. THEN HE WAS FINE, but looked at me like I was an odd duck. LOL In fact, I think I caught him a few times looking at me as though I was an odd creature... hahaha

He may have got the message about asking me out in advance. He emailed me this morning at 11am thanking me again for helping him Saturday and asking me out for Friday night to dinner and an outdoor concert. I haven't responded yet, but I will tonight and I will accept.

The class he taught is something I want to do when I retire -- and I'm using these two years beforehand to practice at a comfortable pace. It is a form of creativity that feeds my soul. I took a class in April with a woman in another town, and am going to another class with her in a couple weeks. I would like to stay friends with Instructor for the art connection and he hasn't implied anything more than a friendship. So for right now I'm thinking friendship and will cross that other bridge if he approaches more.

I'm kind of curious to see if he can be quiet while the music plays. (I swear he's either a super off the charts genius guy, or a guy with a whopping imagination of all the things he's done. He said he started working with computers at University at 10, and did his first paid consulting work at 14. He's into robotics, is working with teenagers to send a camera up to the limit of space to take photos or something, stuff I have no interest in at all.

Our differences are extreme. On Saturday a couple came over to us and I recognized the man as one of my elementary school teachers. I asked him, he confirmed, he asked me to take off my sunglasses, he said he remembered me, he told me how he moved up to the High School as a counselor, I told him it made sense. When he asked why, I said that I always liked him as a kid, that he was different from the other teachers and even as a child, I appreciated it. The guy left thanking me for sharing that with him and said I made his day.

Well, the Instructor had "that" look towards me. He asked if I really remembered the teacher and really hadn't seen him in 40 years. I said yes, and explained that I remember people. I may not remember their names, but I remember them. Clearly, he didn't understand.

So, this could be an odd but hopefully fun friendship.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
This guy is a hoot!! But you know what - the attitude you have about this whole thing right now is a great one, and I've said this before, but I'll say it again. . .I cannot tell you how many long-term couples, when asked how they met, the wife starts with, "Well, I really didn't like him at first, but he persisted and. . ."

And the rest is history LOL.

For some reason, I can see you finding this experience enjoyable and entertaining (messing with him a bit LOL), and I can see him being somewhat intriqued by that, enough so that even while he may be frustrated -- he can't seem to pull himself away.

It almost strikes me as a combo that has enough intrique and entertainment to actually have a shot at working out and maintaining interest in the long run.

I'm glad you'll be accepting his invitation. And it does appear he finally got the message after all. Gotta' hand it to him, he's been extremely persistent here Gem -- and with you both looking at one another like exotic foreign creatures in a zoo exhibit, this should be. . .interesting LOL ;-)

Gem50 said...

@Ms. Mirror and the ladies,
Before I share info on date last night w/Instructor, I was reading around site and found Ms. Mirror's response to -T in the How do you value yourself article. "...when men meet a woman they're crazy about, they don't let that fear hold them back. ...they may stumble at times because of it, but they will not permit it to stop them from going after that which they desire. They will regroup and form another plan of action and take another shot... genuinely interested men will still keep pursuing you, they'll just switch up their game a bit is all. And if you walk away from them - they'll try to stop that from happening in a genuine way as well.

That is exactly what is going on with Instructor right now. I've had absolutely no interest in him other than friendship thru art connection, yet he is trying every which way to keep my attention. It is clear that he's not too sure about his actions, but he's not giving up.

He was late coming to pick me up, but text me ahead of time to let me know. (He has been late for everything so far (except his class), so that is just who he is). When he came to pick me up last night, he brought flowers. When we went in his vehicle, it was spotless. The last time I saw his vehicle it was filthy and crammed with his robotic stuff, the car didn't start well and I thought that is what we'd be riding in. It wasn't until after I was home I thought the car tonight might have been new. LOL In the car, as we chatted about different things, anything I brought up in regards to things I was doing, he'd say, "I can help you with that," or, "I'll take you there." It was getting exhausting trying to keep my boundaries and I think he finally caught on that the more he pushed, the more blocks I put up.

The concert was really nice. It was outside and a beautiful night. We positioned our chairs next to each other, with a blanket below, and instead of sitting in his, he laid on the blanket perpendicular to me so that we faced each other. At first I was uncomfortable, had to keep moving my legs to the side, but then realized, this man wanted my full attention, so I gave it to him.

continued

Gem50 said...

2 of 2
We talked a lot, and he was finally backing off, not being so persistent with me about doing more things together. I became more at ease because of it, and I am sure he noticed. He has been so persistent, I have felt like the "hunted" too much so, and I think he finally saw it isn't working, so he's changing his actions as Ms. Mirror explains. We talked about people and how long it takes to really get to know someone and he mentioned "friendships" specifically, which really put me at ease.

I am happy to say Instructor was able to be quiet while the musicians played.
As it got dark, he was pointing out planets to me in the sky explaining how they line up, how he built his first telescope at 12, etc. It was interesting, but I had no idea what he was talking about and laughed about how different we are. He tried to minimize the differences. I shared the observation of both of us looking at each other as totally different creatures.

Instructor said that he appreciates differences and said something like, "I see things in you that I wish I had the ability to do," discussing how, when he sees something, he immediately breaks it down in his mind and figures out how it works, etc. I said, "When I see something, I just appreciate it for what it is."

We chatted on the drive home and when we got to my house, I did not invite him in. He did not make ANY advances towards me, which I appreciated.

A red flag: He told me last Friday that he did not drink alcohol; I told him I did socially. I took note when he offered to get me a drink at concert(which I declined) and he bought himself a hard cider drink. hmmm Back at our chairs, he offered me some of it. I declined then asked if it had alcohol in it. He said it did, and I said, "I thought you said you didn't drink." He looked surprised and said, "well, I really don't. I'll have one every once in awhile and I don't consider that drinking." I said, "Um, yes it is," and told him of the drink I make for myself. He then told me about a drink he likes made with scotch and something. He said he doesn't buy bottles to bring home, only drinks one once in a while if he is out, and said his father was a drinker and he made a decision as a child not to be like him.

To tell someone outright, "I don't drink," when you are getting to know them, and then you do, just doesn't sit right with me. What do you think Ms. Mirror?

I am sure this will be continued... I'm happy if we can make it a friendship. It is just nice to experience a man doing the right things and demonstrating what Ms. Mirror says a man will do when he is interested in a woman.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
"when he sees something, he immediately breaks it down in his mind and figures out how it works"

LOL, he's looked at you in the same exact manner. But when he does that, he can't figure out how you work ;-)

"To tell someone outright, "I don't drink," when you are getting to know them, and then you do, just doesn't sit right with me. What do you think Ms. Mirror?"

I suspect that his idea of "drinking" is something more than social drinking. Meaning, when he thinks of drinking, he likely uses his father as the base line for what a drinker and drinking is. To him, a drinker is likely an alcoholic. He is not one, so he doesn't consider himself to be a drinker, even though he does drink socially.

"I am sure this will be continued... I'm happy if we can make it a friendship"

I like how this man made himself and his overall intentions very clear with you when "he brought flowers" even though he's more than happy to be friends first, which is one of the best ways to proceed towards something meaningful. He's made his intentions clear, but he's going to take the time to get to know you first, while granting you the same.

I know many woman do not really care about flowers, or at least don't see them as something important. However, when a man does this, his actions are telling you very important things:

1) He's making it clear there's a romantic interest.
2) He's showing you that he respects you.
3) He's showing that he values you.
4) He's showing you he's willing to take the time to go out of his way to do something to make you happy and put a smile on your face.
5) He's showing you that he has old fashioned values, and is giving a nod to your femininity and your feminine role.
6) He's removing any possible confusion about his intentions.
7) He's showing you that impressing you is important to him.

That action says a LOT. And it also shows you that he's willing to humble himself for you. These things are important, because these are the types of traits that right away, tell you a lot of the man. A man that's willing to humble himself to impress you, and is willing to go out of his to do so is a man worth getting to know.

It's the complete opposite of men who sit back, do nothing, act aloof and remain vague about their overall intentions, which does nothing but create confusion and anxiety.

It's a man taking the lead masculine role and showing you his willingness to do so --versus a man stealing your feminine submissive role and showing you his unwillingness to even lift a finger for you to impress you (because he doesn't care to).

That one action right there creates an unspoken "conversation." And the unspoken conversation that takes place is basically one of him clearly letting you know where he stands, and where you stand in his eyes. No games. No manipulation. No triggering of insecurities. No confusion. No lack of willingness. No insecurity.

Instead, strong confidence is displayed ;-)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And while this man may not necessarily appear to be all that confident at times because of the fact that he may seem unsure of himself and switches things up - the reality is that he does not run off like a scared little boy when he hits a wall. He does not resort to manipulation tactics to protect his ego or hide the fact that he's a bit unsure of himself. He stands his ground, confidently moving forward even in the face of a possible obstacle, and switches up his actions as need be in order to achieve success.

Because that's what confident men do.

"The last time I saw his vehicle it was filthy and crammed with his robotic stuff, the car didn't start well and I thought that is what we'd be riding in. It wasn't until after I was home I thought the car tonight might have been new. LOL"

THIS cracks me up!!

Gem, if this man ran out and bought a new car so that he could impress you on his first date with you -- you might seriously have a keeper here LOL!

And I really like what he said here, it's VERY impressive - "said something like, "I see things in you that I wish I had the ability to do."

That's what I meant earlier with that reference to him "breaking things down to see how they work." That's the sign of an analytical thinker. And it's also what likely makes him so successful at his chosen career. And what's funny about that is that he's applying that to you -- and he's trying to figure out how you're engineered LOL.

And I believe the fact that he cannot quite figure that out provides an intriguing challenge to him, and creates a strong attraction towards you. What's also impressive about that is the fact that, with this type of background and him doing this at work regularly with success. . .he's not trying to force you into what he already knows. Meaning, I sense no ego here.

He's not trying to force YOU into what HIS overall beliefs are.

He's not saying to you, "You shouldn't do that." Or, "You need to do this." Or, "You're wrong about that." He's not trying to fit you into a "box" that contains his beliefs or what he already knows in an attempt to reassure himself and boost his ego in doing so.

Instead, he's like, "Huh, so there are still new things to learn. This is fascinating" ;-)

At first he did try a bit of that "fit into my box" thing when he was telling you what you should and shouldn't paint, or include in your paintings, etc. However, when he saw that there are ways of doing things that achieve success that don't necessarily fit into his "box" of views - he became an "observer" LOL ;-)

And he likes what he sees Gem, and he's open to learning new things and new ways of being and doing. And he's willing to shed his ego in order to do that. He's willing to let you teach him something new, instead of hiding behind his ego and trying to make you "fit" into his beliefs.

I know you're not incredibly attracted to this man right now. But I suspect if he continues like this, there's going to come a day that you're going to find yourself impressed by him in a way that will trigger an attraction towards him for you. And the way he treats you is already building towards that because it's impressive and respectful.

More of that and more of that and more of that -- is only going to build upon the foundation that's already there. And what generally happens is that while the immediate physical attraction may not exist, silently a stronger, deeper attraction - one on a much deeper level - is going to slowly build.

Enjoy this Gem - you definitely DESERVE it. And while you may not be crazy about this man just yet -- I REALLY like him for you. . .quirks and all LOL ;-) And I can totally see this building into a very meaningful relationship for you on many different levels, beginning with friendship as it should.

Anonymous said...

@ Gem

Wow, I haven´t been here for a short while and what great news. I don´t know this man but from what I have learned from you I must say I like him. I am not going to repeat what Mirror wrote but I completely agree with her. This man seems to be sincere, respectful, masculine and what is most important - genuinely interested in you. And what I really appreciate: n-o-r-m-a-l. In this crazy times something almost unbelievable. Good luck to you, enjoy your new phase of life (as I see it). You have changed a lot since you came here and all your effort seems to have brought its reward:-) And take care.

I wish you all a nice day,
Hopeful

CatR said...

"IF YOUR ABSENCE DOESN'T AFFECT THEM, YOUR PRESENCE NEVER MATTERED." That's the sad hard-hitting truth, ladies x

Gem50 said...

@ Ms. Mirror,
The car was spotless and new, but didn't smell brand new, so I'm guessing it's his 2nd car. I'll let you know if I find out LOL

Your comment about him not pushing his "beliefs" on to me is amazingly on point. Somehow we got into talking about evolution, whether we came from the ocean, apes, or Adam and Eve. When I asked him what he believed, it was none of them. He commented that this was "really deep stuff" that he usually doesn't share because it is so out of the norm. His beliefs are related to other life forms, and us on earth as an experiment that has gone awry, similar to a 4th grade science project, that has been stuffed away in the corner because it wasn't going the way it was expected. It was interesting to listen to, and I have no thoughts of it either way. When I asked him something similar to, "So, how does this belief impact how you live your life?" He looked at me like he had never heard that question before. LOL Gave him something to think about.

@Hopeful,
Thanks for your note. So far he does seem normal in his behavior towards me and our conversations.

As far as changing since I first started coming here, the biggest contributor to that I think is doing what Ms. Mirror had said to me a long time ago. I needed to tend to within, to fill whatever it was that kept me empty or hurt or damaged inside, and (subconsciously) looking for someone else to fix it, to fill me up.

I won't kid anyone, it's work, it is a lot of alone time, but I believe it is the way.

hugs

Gem50 said...

@ the Ladies,
I shared Scorpio's words/actions in the past to try to help women identify at the get-go traits of a disappearing, Player and insecure man.

I've shared the initial actions of Instructor, and Ms. Mirror has stated when a (real) man wants something, he goes after it clearly, with confidence, no games, no ambiguity.

I am on vacation this week, living and loving life at home, doing things local, etc. Instructor came over to my home Tuesday night for a bit, it was a nice time and he didn't make any moves on me -- which I appreciated.

He text me Wednesday afternoon saying he had a great time. He knew of the things I had planned for the day and asked how they went. All I did was respond with a pic of 12 lbs of strawberries I picked in the morning with the caption, "If a pic is worth 1K words..."

Yesterday morning I received a text from Instructor and he is very clear > Morning (Gem). Hope all is well. Sorry to see your days of freedom coming to an end. Would like to ask you out on a date tomorrow night. Thinking a nice dinner in (next town) and maybe take a peek at (art piece). A little walk around town, some nice talking and maybe listen to a band if there's anything good in town. Think that will be a nice way to cap off your week. No need to answer now, I'll give you a call tonight. Just wanted to give you enough heads-up so you could see if you can fit me in. Have a great day, talk later. Smiles, (Instructor)

I am still not feeling an attraction other than friendship towards Instructor, but I am going to go out with him tonight. I need to learn to date successfully; this is more practice and we do laugh a lot -- mostly because we are so different. I'll cross all the bridges that come up as they do -- wish me luck! Maybe wish us both luck! lol

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
Pay particular attention to how this man requested a date with Gem50:

"Morning (Gem). Hope all is well. Sorry to see your days of freedom coming to an end. Would like to ask you out on a date tomorrow night. Thinking a nice dinner in (next town) and maybe take a peek at (art piece). A little walk around town, some nice talking and maybe listen to a band if there's anything good in town. Think that will be a nice way to cap off your week. No need to answer now, I'll give you a call tonight. Just wanted to give you enough heads-up so you could see if you can fit me in. Have a great day, talk later. Smiles, (Instructor)"

Notice:

1) How he clearly makes his intentions for Gem known "ask you out on a date." It's none of this "let's hang out like pals" crap.

2) Notice what he considers a nice date "Thinking a nice dinner." That's not an invitation to sit on his/her sofa for an evening of groping.

3) Notice how he's not fast-tracking or pressuring for a quick slam dunk "No need to answer now." None of this "I like you SO much (even though I've only met you 3 times)."

4) Notice how HE is WILLING to do the WORK and LEAD "I'll give you a call tonight." None of this aloof "Call me if you want to go" crap that forces the woman into the lead position.

5) Notice how he's respectful of her time "wanted to give you enough heads-up so you could see if you can fit me in." None of this "wait around for me and if nothing better comes along, I'll call you at the last minute and squeeze YOU in" crap.

THAT is how a CONFIDENT GENTLEMEN does it.

When a man is vague, submissive, doesn't take the lead, acts aloof, is disrespectful of you and your time, and can't even bother to plan a real date let alone take you on one. . .he's not worth another ounce of your time.

Because his ACTIONS are showing you that he lacks confidence, has very little knowledge about women or dating, is unsure of himself and insecure, uses manipulation instead of social skills, is disrespectful and emotionally immature. And the simple fact is that men in that state are NOT ready for anything meaningful. If they can't even go about asking for a date properly and then following through properly. . .how are they going to manage a relationship properly?

Well - they're not.

This is a GREAT example of what a gentleman looks like, and what a woman can expect from one. He gladly takes on his masculine role with ease, while permitting Gem50 to remain in her feminine role and exercise her power of CHOICE.

I really, really like this guy for you Gem. You deserve this. And this experience is going to be like night and day for you when compared against Scorpio.

This man sees your VALUE ;-)

Anonymous said...

MOA said "When a man is vague, submissive, doesn't take the lead, acts aloof, is disrespectful of you and your time, and can't even bother to plan a real date let alone take you on one. . .he's not worth another ounce of your time" Wow! You just described my DM to T.

MOA Also said "Because his ACTIONS are showing you that he lacks confidence, has very little knowledge about women or dating, is unsure of himself and insecure, uses manipulation instead of social skills, is disrespectful and emotionally immature. And the simple fact is that men in that state are NOT ready for anything meaningful. If they can't even go about asking for a date properly and then following through properly. . .how are they going to manage a relationship properly?

Well - they're not.

This is a GREAT example of what a gentleman looks like, and what a woman can expect from one. He gladly takes on his masculine role with ease, while permitting Gem50 to remain in her feminine role and exercise her power of CHOICE.

I really, really like this guy for you Gem. You deserve this. And this experience is going to be like night and day for you when compared against Scorpio.

This man sees your VALUE ;-) "

Thanks for sharing this, GEM 50 and thanks for commenting MOA- I've almost forgotten what a Real Gentleman acts like.

Anonymous said...

@Gem50. Please go on the date with Instructor. If for no other reason than because he asked you so nicely and gentlemanly. I had a guy tell me he wanted to take me out to a place using a gift card that I got for HIM. That was bad enough, but he didn't even give a specific day and time to go on this "date" with the card that I bought for him. Needless to say, an EPIC FAIL.

Gem50 said...

Well ladies, it was an interesting wknd w/Instructor.

Friday night dinner and event was very nice. In his car, he handed me a small mail package; inside were some items I could use for art. They weren’t expensive, but it was a thoughtful gift and I thanked him for it. Instructor was a gentleman, leading, taking care of everything, but I’m still sensing we are so different, and I attribute it to his super-smarts and my simplicity.

The music event was very good and a nice surprise since we didn’t know what to expect. During the second half I was leaning forward in my seat and Instructor started massaging my back. A deep, really good massage...that I wasn’t completely comfortable with. I closed my eyes, and with the music it felt really good, but it was also stirring up feelings in me that I was not ready to go to. Eventually I moved a bit, and he stopped. I didn’t say anything about it.

When we were back in my driveway, I paused a bit in the car to give him a chance to get out and get the door if he chose. Instead, he started to try to massage my neck/back again. This time, I stopped him and said, “That could lead to trouble.”

He said, “What trouble? No trouble.” I thanked him for a very nice evening, gave him a peck for a kiss good night, and got out of the car. He rolled down his window and said again, “There’s no trouble,” and I said, “Do you really not see that it could be trouble?” He looked very disappointed, and we said our good-bye’s.

Saturday afternoon he text me w/small talk ending it with > Miss u a little. Smiles.

I responded an hr later and kept it light, ignoring his “miss u” comment. He responded with more small talk and then > FYI, I have your sunglass case left in car and you left the package in car too (guess they weren’t nice enough for you, sorry ;(

Ugh! This pissed me off. I felt he was taking my action w/the massage as a rejection of him, but using the package as a way to get it out.

I thought about it for a bit and decided to put this right back in his lap where it belongs. I text back > You know I loved the package and the gift. I forgot them.

He replied an hour later with a smiley face, and I didn’t respond. As far as I was concerned, he could think about what he was doing with his message (or not), I didn’t care.

He text me Sunday 9am > Good morning. Are you awake?

Me > Good morning. Yes :)

Him > What are your plans for the day?

Me > Can u call the house phone please, I hate texting.

So he called. We were both cordial. I told him my plans with my son for the day, and I didn’t know how long we’d be. He asked if I would like to go for a walk on the bike trail if I got done early enough and asked me to let him know when I was done. I told him I would get back to him in the afternoon (and I decided I was going to address the massage and be very clear with him where I am at.)

continued

Gem50 said...

continued -

So we go on this walk and he tried to massage my neck again. I stepped away and said I'd like to talk about it. I reminded him of a comment he made in one of the first classes where he stated something similar to his belief that things were changing for him and he would be moving on a new path. I said that I took note of this comment because I felt the same way about where I was at in life. I explained that I thought we were starting to build a friendship and getting physical with each other would impact that friendship in a way I was not willing to go.

He said it was just a massage. I asked, "What was the intent of it?” He said there was no intent other than to help me relax. I asked, “What would have happened next?” He said nothing would have happened, it was just a massage. I said, “Well, maybe for you nothing more would have happened, but there are two of us here. That massage felt really good last night, but I am not willing to have those kinds of feelings with you at this time.” I told him that I’ve gone on first dates with men who wouldn’t keep their hands off of me, and it’s awful.

He apologized, adding he didn’t think our recent date was our “first." I told him I did and I was not comfortable with him or anyone getting that physical with me so quickly. I said I valued the friendship I thought we were building, I enjoyed the things we were doing together, and I valued his art skill and what I can learn from him. I explained learning this art has been something I have always wanted to do, and I am not willing to risk endangering it by being rushed into a physical or committed relationship with him or anyone.

Instructor listened and asked what I thought the other men from first dates were trying to get from me. I said, "I don't know, probably layed." He didn't like that answer and said that was not his intention. I said, "I can say anything to you about who I am. The only way you are going to know who I am is by what I do." He said, "I know, it is my actions that matter." I smiled and didn't say anything more about it.

continued

Gem50 said...

3 of 3
We continued to walk seeing turtles, birds, etc and talk about other things, and I saw something that has bugged me before. I noticed him taking a couple quick bites from a granola bar as we walked and stuffing it back in his pack. It was the same thing I saw in class and at the time I thought it odd that he wouldn’t say, “Hey you guys want anything?” During the day-long art show I noticed him eating a few bites quickly as well. I didn’t say anything then, and I didn’t say anything during our walk when he did it, I just thought it was more behavior that was so far from my own.

Near the end of our walk, Instructor asked if I would like to get dinner with him before heading home and I agreed.

After we ordered, I went to wash my hands first, then he went to wash his. When he came back, he had this look on his face as if he was struggling with something internally. I asked if he was ok. He said he needed to tell me something. I didn’t know what he was going to say, but I’ve heard those words before from a man I was beginning to date, so I was ready to just listen.

Well, Mr. Instructor has Diabetes 1. He’s had it for 30 years, he said he wanted to tell me because it has been an issue for some. I said, “ok,” adding, “I thought you were going to tell me something really bad” (and now his eating behavior made sense). He said it is a pretty bad thing to have, but he has done the work over the past 30 years to do his best to take care of himself. I told him I knew nothing of diabetes, but I guess now I will read up on it. He explained -how/when he was diagnosed, -the biological stuff, -what he has to do up to 10x/day, -showed me his finger pricks (I couldn’t see anything), -explained how his exercise regiment is part of his health care and said it has not affected any of his other organs, adding that someday it could; and talked about all the work he has done and continues to do in order not to get to that point, etc.

I said I was sorry that he was going through this; if I can help him I will try; and that I was going to trust him to let me know if there is ever a problem when we are together.

After dinner, he asked if I wanted to see what he has to do, and I agreed. So, in the car he took out his stuff, got his reader thing set, pricked his finger, placed blood on the tag, got the reading, then determined how much insulin to use. He started explaining numbers, etc., but I didn’t comprehend it. He drew the insulin, then poked his stomach with a little pen like needle right through this shirt.

On the way home, he talked more about when he was diagnosed at 24, right after graduating an Ivy League College in 3 years and during Air Force training that was to be the start of his attendance in an aero-space program. He said he was pretty angry at first, but realized everything happens for a reason and he isn’t bitter, it’s just something he has to deal with and is the reason he lives his life doing what he wants to do as much as he can.

I don't know about all of this. I believe he has diabetes, it's everything else that I am questioning whether is real... now he was going to be an astronaut????

If anything, this story reinforces the fact that it takes a long time to know who people are.

Do the work ladies that Ms. Mirror shares. You owe it to your current and future self.

Hugs to all

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Gem50,
I've read your latest comment and gave it some thought. And I believe the physical touch from him triggered your guard. And I believe that the intention behind that physical touch from him was likely geared towards the building of trust rather than sex.

This man is highly intelligent. As a result, I suspect he's also got a high EQ (emotional intelligence). Personally, I think that him reaching for sex would involved intellectual stimulation versus outright physical groping. And I suspect that touching was more about the building of trust rather than a play for sex. I suspect he wants you to trust him because on an emotional level, he is able to sense that a lack of it exists at the moment. And I understand your lack of comfort with it. But I will say that I don't get the vibe that this man intended to get laid that night.

I feel like when he said "it's no problem," what he was really saying is, "I'm not trying to hurt you or use you - you can trust me, there will be no problem here for you from me." I believe that was reassurance of trust. Because again remember, this man is highly intelligent. His senses are heightened and his brain is able to quickly and accurately assess things as he's honed it to do over the course of many decades for his career.

Remember he told you he likes to figure out how things work? I think that's what that was about with you. That was him testing your level of trust and attempting to break through that barrier in an attempt to lead the relationship into a slight progression. And I don't his intentions were necessarily sex. I think his intention was to take things to the next natural level (as a gentleman would naturally perceive the levels of a relationship in baby steps) and I believe his end goal there was the level of "affection." I suspect he'd like to be able to start showing you affection. Things such as holding your hand, placing his arm around you, sitting next to you with his arm around you, etc. Because an emotionally intelligent, mature man would see this as the next natural step. I suspect he's attempting to lead the relationship there and intelligence-wise, he understands that a small level of trust is required to comfortably progress to that next stage.

And I also suspect that you may possibly have your guard raised even higher than what may be normal for you because this man is like an entirely new creature for you. He's very different from those you're normally attracted to, and as a result he's a bit unusual for you. You're sensing that and many small differences and with each one, your guard is ticking up a notch because -- you don't necessarily know what to expect with this one, because you haven't necessarily been down this particular path before. Hence a bit more of a guard is up.

In otherwords, I suspect those actions on his part were to progress the relationship in a small step that moves from friendship to that of dipping toes into the romantic arena (the ability to show you affection). And his response to your honesty with regards to that proved his emotional intelligence and level of maturity. He did not run. He did not become angry. He did not develop a bruised ego or lash out at you in a nasty manner.

Instead, he listened -- and then what he did next really kind of cements this for me -- he SHARED. This man became VULNERABLE with you. And for me, that kinda' cements my suspicion that his desire was to bond with you that night in a trusting manner (instead of receive sex from you).

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And when YOU didn't feel comfortable trusting HIM -- he led by example, as a gentleman does, by instead trusting YOU and becoming VULNERABLE himself. He sensed that you were unable to trust, so to reassure you via his actions -- he instead did something in an attempt to bridge that trust gap himself.

I think he was seeking an emotional/intellectual connection from those actions and not necessarily sex. Now - had you jumped into his lap, yea sure - he may have had sex with you LOL ;-) But as far as his intentions are concerned, what I'm seeing in his own actions is a desire to bond on a level of affection, which requires a small level of trust.

I could be wrong of course. But I really don't see a man like this, who conducts himself with a high standard of personal decorum. . .reducing himself to participating in a grope fest like a 16 year old boy who's just borrowed his dad's car for the first time LOL ;-)

Focus on the way this man treats you and how he values you instead of the differences that exist. Because if you can do that and place those differences aside -- it will likely enable you to appreciate him as a man and maybe even begin to experience small feelings for him (such as missing him or thinking about him a bit when he's not around ;-)

Your expectation (as most of us women) may be for him to attempt to pounce on you because that's been your experience with men in the past (as well as most of ours). However, this man is different and he's not like many other men out there.

He's one of them rare dinosaurs walking the earth that's near extinction -- he's a gentleman LOL ;-)

Gem50 said...

Thanks Ms. Mirror,
You may be right on all counts ;)
Instructor emailed me yesterday a.m. asking if I would like to go on a Whale Watching trip this summer. (He's just not giving up!) He said he needed to make the reservations yesterday, but our day to go can be decided for anytime this summer. Again, he is making plans with me while providing me choices.

I did some web reading on D1 after writing my last post and some things regarding his behavior and my feelings made more sense. I think part of my doubt with him was my sensing something wasn't "right" with him and his behavior that I couldn't put my finger on, therefore any trust towards him just wasn't available. My frustration (and some anger) with the massage was certainly my lack of trust with him.

We emailed a couple times about the Whale Watching thing and I also told him I had done some web reading on D1. He said we could talk more about it if I wanted to. He said he would call me when he got home later; instead I invited him over if he wanted to stop in on his way home. He did and I made us a salad, gave him choices to go with it, etc. He was so appreciative, and thanked me for looking up the D1 stuff and the food.

He was different, a lot different. Although he was drained and needed OJ when he arrived, he was much more at ease. I think withholding the D1 information was a strain on him, and I felt that strain but took it as "crazy far-out scientist-like energy."

As guarded as I've been with him, he's not giving up; he's continuing to pursue, pursue, pursue but with respect. His behavior is rare, and absolutely NOT what I have experienced getting back into this dating world.

I'll still observe, make choices, take this one day at a time, and see what happens LOL

Thanks lady!
Hugs to all

Anonymous said...

Mirror,
How do you know if a guy is truly stringing you along?

If I ask a guy if I'm a part of his future and if he's in it for the long haul (weve been together 18 mos) and he says I don't know...only because he says he hasn't had time to really think about it with how stressful his new work situation has been...

What should the woman tell him if she wants him to give her a yes or no answer, not an I don't know answer?

Should I then say something along the lines of, "Call me when you can give me a yes or no answer." And leave it at that? I don't believe in breaks..

Thank you!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 25, 11:48 AM,
"How do you know if a guy is truly stringing you along?"

His words will not line up with his actions consistently over a long length of time. He will say/claim one thing, yet turn around and take completely different actions that do not line up with his claims.

For instance, he'll say he cares - but he won't make any time for you.

"What should the woman tell him if she wants him to give her a yes or no answer, not an I don't know answer?"

A year and a half is more than enough time for a man to know if the woman he's been dating is the right woman for him. If he's still unsure after a year and a half, then I'd suggest that the woman not waste any more precious time on him :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. I met a guy who I do like. We have only gone out 2 times and had fun on the dates. He has been divorced for 2 years. Right now he is going through a hard time because his mom has kidney failure and is very sick. She is on her death bed as he put it. I try to be understanding. We went out last Thursday and he text me the next day asking if I was feeling better (I had a little cold). I told him I was a little congested still and asked how he was. He said he was in a dark space and was very sad. I text back saying cheer up and asked why he was sad. He didn't respond until 4 days later and his only response was "life". I was pretty annoyed that after 4 days that was all he text! So I didn't reply. Well that night I went out to meet
My friend for a drink and guess what? I walked in and he was sitting at the bar by himself! We saw each other right away. Still being annoyed about him not texting me back for 4 days. I waved and did a quick smile and hi. He said oh god, but I don't know if it was a good oh god or not. I just said I was going to meet my friend and I went over and sat down with my friend. I did not walk over and give him a hug or say anything else other than the hi and wave. He was sitting directly across from us the whole time, but I did not pay him any attention or look over that way. I kind of had my back turned because I was talking to my friend the whole time. He did eventually leave and did not come over and say hi. I didn't want him to think I was there for him. I didn't even know he would be there. I kind of feel rude now, but I intentionally didn't walk up to him because he ignored my text for 4 days so I figured I would do the same. I did say hi though and wave so not totally rude. Did I handle it the right way? I never did reply back after his "life" comment. Should I after 4 days have passed to mirror him? Thanks for your help, Mirror!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 1, 1:02 AM,
This man sounds miserable and unhappy. And after 2 dates, to be laying that on you and really putting a damper on the situation, not responding for 4 days, saying, "Oh god" when he spots you out in public, and then not even waving and saying goodbye when he left. . .not sure I'd ever bother with him again dear.

I think if it were me, I'd let him get what "life" stuff he has under control on his own. I wouldn't attempt to assist or take the burden of assisting him on, and I'd just leave him be so he could sort it out. Because he's likely not going to be much fun on a date. . .and that "oh god" was quite ignorant if you ask me. If it wasn't accompanied by a laugh and a smile, that's a very ignorant thing to say to someone, no matter what state of mind you're in :-(

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Mirror. I will leave him be then. I was thinking I don't know what he wants me to do as far as when he tells me he is in a dark space and is sad. I don't even hardly know him, so don't know how to handle that! I feel bad because of his mom, but I don't know her either. Yes with the oh god comment I wasn't sure how to take that! I didn't look at him long enough to figure that one out. He didn't seem to laugh or smile so I quickly walked over to my friend. Maybe he was in his dark space again sitting at the bar by himself! Hoping he doesn't have a drinking problem! Thanks so much :)

Anonymous said...

@Anonymous July 1, 2016 9:38am: Leave this one alone. The DM I was seeing did similar things. He would go days sometimes weeks without texting or calling me. And one time, he acted like he didn't even know me. And that was AFTER I'd been there for him (and his family) during a particularly dark time. He made me feel like a penny waiting for change. and then had the nerve to put the fault on me. I was like "Boy, Bye"

Anonymous said...

Gemini 50+ woman in a year long committed relationship with 50+ Scorpio man who has gone MIA. Reading all the stories makes me feel like I am not alone. All was well, other than financial stress from ex-wife and his work is *really* busy. All was well and had a date planned 2.5 weeks ago which got cancelled due to a very real family (his) medical emergency. I gave him space and texted two days later that I hoped things were getting better. He got right back that they were and he would call me the next day (he didn't). Two days later I called in the morning and hung up when it went to VM. He texted a while later that he would call later. He didn't. I broke down and called saying that I was trying to get in touch with him and that I just wanted to know what was going on, that I knew it had nothing to do with me and that because he is an important person to me...that his family is important. No response. I texted the next day that I didn't understand why I was being shut out. No response. That text was 15 days ago..crickets from him and I will NOT contact him again. This is a man that we were planning on getting a house together...planning a future. Will the NC work with him? What are the chances he will be in contact again? Mirror...I just love your advice!

piscesgirl said...

Hi Mirror and you lovely ladies <3 so after a string of going on dates and not hearing back from dudes or hitting it off with guys who would tell me they would take me on a date and they wouldn't follow through I pretty much decided I don't trust men anymore as they really do blow so hot and cold and are so inconsistent and I don't get it. Its like you could be pretty and perfect in every way and that's still not good enough. This has led me to be in a pretty negative mindframe overall regarding people in general but ive still been trying to be good to myself and take care of myself cause what else is a girl to do? sit at home and sulk? sure I did do a lot of that but I also continued to try to take care of myself despite feeling so sad/lonely/negative etc.. Anyways one day I was coming home and my hands were full and I seen this guy who lives in my building who I met before in the parkade and he was dressed up to go out somewhere and he stopped to offer to help me carry some of the stuff I had to my place. At first I said it was ok but then we chatted for a bit and I agreed to let him help me carry some of the stuff up to my place. He told me he was going somewhere but would be back in a few hours and maybe he could stop by after and I said ok. I didn't think he actually would but in the evening I heard a knock on my door and it was him. Lets call him Michael (that is his actual name btw) LOL anyways I let him in and we ended up hanging out all night! I know I should of made something up and got him out to leave sooner but I actually enjoyed his company so I didn't mind him staying. The following day he came in the evening and I offered him some food that I made and we just hung out and chatted as friendly neighbors but i knew from day 1 he was attracted to me. I was trying to keep things very cas between us -just friendly banter. Attraction wise I couldn't decide if I was attracted to him I mean hes not bad looking and he is very tall but at the same time I didn't care that my hair was messy and I was in my workout clothes. He didn't make my heart skip a beat I just think I was lonely and was happy to have some company and he was pretty easy to talk to, I felt comfortable around him like I could just be myself.

piscesgirl said...

He didn't stay as late the second night we hung out and when he asked me if he could come back after he went to go do something I said it might be too late. I was still trying to impose some limits and boundaries despite us hanging out all night the night before i think he was a little confused by that too. Anyways this was last week and since then hes been stopping by regularly h in the evening. This past Friday -Canada Day he stopped by cause he had asked me earlier in the week what I was up to and I told him I would just be at home so he came by and we hung out again. I could tell he was attracted to me but was trying to be a polite gentleman and not cross any boundaries. But we got to watching a movie later and then he leaned in and tried to kiss me! At first I looked at him and asked him what he was doing but then he went in again for it and I just let it happen. Anyways things got pretty intense with the kissing and touching and him lifting me up which was really hot cause I love a guy who's strong enough to lift me up. I was definitely feeling it but in the back of my mind I still had some reservations about it all. I told him about my concerns being that he is my neighbor and all and he said i didn't have to explain and that he felt the same way. I just dont want things to get weird or awkward between us-afterall he literally lives down the hall from me so its inevitable that i would be bumping into him. He said he understood where I was coming from. Then I told him I thought it was best if he just stayed friends given the situation. He said ok and he ended up leaving after I told him I was tired and needed to sleep. I just laughed and told him it was funny because he was leaving but not really leaving! lol Im not gonna lie part of me did think about what it would be like if we dated. I mean it would be soo convenient and I thought about the future and maybe moving into his place -his condo is bigger than mine and I do love this building and this area and I could just rent out my place and move some of my stuff into his place. He just moved in 6 months ago so he doesn't have a lot of stuff still. I let my mind wander a little (ok a lot) but this past Saturday I never heard a knock on my door and same with today :(( I even made extra food and had an extra bottle of wine in case he stopped by but he didn't or maybe he did but i just wasn't at home he usually comes by in the evening but yesterday and today i was at home in the evening. Maybe it is for the best if he didn't and i should keep things platonic and not get in over my head here. He did tell me he thought I was beautiful/sexy and he is a good kisser and is certified in a trade job so hes got some things working in his favor already but im sad and disappointed (once again) because he didn't stop by at least not that i know of. We don't have each others numbers but i was almost certain i would be spending the rest of the weekend with him..im definitely not gonna go knocking on his door either,i could of pretended I needed to borrow his hammer and actually I do need it but I just thought nah that's equivalent to me pursuing and I feel like the same rules would apply here in this situation.

piscesgirl said...

He did mention to me that he thought a lot of females are just as thirsty as men nowadays and i didn't want him to classify me as one of those thirsty females. Ive been tempted to go knockin on his door but I just cant do it my pride is too strong. Any ides why he didn't stop by yesterday or today? Maybe he felt like he made a mistake and it was a bad idea. Should I just forget about him or can this possibly work out if he pursues me and if we keep some healthy distance and space between us -though its a little harder to do since hes literally 20 steps away lol. He hasn't taken me out on date and he doesn't have my number so obviously not too much courting has happened yet. I know i already made some mistakes letting him in so soon and allowing him to stay and allowing things to get physical but i just wanna take a step back now and wait and see what happens. Maybe he will come knockin tomorrow but if he doesn't then im just gonna try to forget about this neighbor of mine and try to move on once again ....sighhh on a side note when i went for my walk to think about if this was a good idea or not i just thought to myself i wanna move up in life not horizontal and hes horizontal. Maybe that means i want to live in a house with someone who's a little more established and well off. So that was that little voice in my head and maybe i shouldn't ignore that.

Piscesgirl said...

Morning ladies just a little update-after writing my last post about my neighbor not coming by this past weekend I was laying in bed getting ready to sleep when I heard a knock on my door. I knew it was my neighbor. He decided to stop by at 11 at night! I went to the door and opened it just a bit and he told me he just got in and wanted to say goodnight but I told him I wasn't going to let him in because my makeup was off and I had my nightgown on and I needed to sleep and be up early the next day. He said oh cmon I know you're not hideous without makeup. I told him he should of come by earlier. Anyways, when guys disappoint me it helps me take off my rose colored glasses and see things for what they are im not as excited about him any more and now im gonna take a step back. I had been hoping to spend more time with him on the weekend as that is when i have the most free time but he was MIA on Saturday and Sunday. Im not going to be overly accommodating to him. I don't want him to think he can come by at any time he wants just because he lives a few steps away.

«Oldest ‹Older   601 – 800 of 1096   Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

 
The Mirror of Aphrodite. Artwork by Neoclyptic. Design by Wpthemedesigner. Converted To Blogger Template By Anshul Tested by Blogger Templates.