"Mirror, Mirror on the wall . . . where did he go, and why doesn't he call?"

Why You Should Not Date Insecure Men

I’m pretty sure that when you set out to start dating, you didn’t intend to date insecure men. But the reality is that’s exactly what ends up happening, and most times, without you even realizing it.

Insecure men are actually quite adept at attracting the perfect “victim.” And much of this goes back to the theory of the Law of Attraction which states that “like attracts like.” In otherwords, similar energies are, by nature, naturally attracted and drawn to one another. Which means that your insecurities, can actually be drawing insecure men back towards you.

An insecure man needs constant reassurance and validation of himself as a man, and his ideal woman is also insecure and feels “unworthy” of love and therefore, is eagerly willing to constantly sacrifice herself and her needs, thus directing all of her energy towards being his biggest “cheerleader” in life, and completely losing herself and her own identity in the process.

The Negative Cycle of Co-Dependency

This exchange of energy leads to a co-dependent relationship in that, he’s dependent on receiving the constant reassurance and support he needs from others (her) to keep himself feeling like a man, and she’s dependent on receiving the validation she needs to feel “worthy” as a woman by constantly proving herself “useful” to him.

But there’s a problem. This is one-sided and not equal. The man is “receiving” on a constant basis, while the woman is “giving” on a constant basis. (And for any men reading here, this piece is obviously geared towards women. But understand that much of this works both ways and the roles can actually be reversed.)

It becomes a feeding frenzy of negativity. A theme of “reassurance and acceptance” starts to play out. He needs to feel reassured and validated as a man, and she needs to feel accepted and worthy as a woman.

Are You the Perfect Victim?

Insecure men generally tend to seek out women who are an empty vessel. Meaning, similar to a blank slate, much like a brand new computer on the assembly line that’s just been pieced together, with an empty hard drive that’s ready to be programmed. Insecure men do not want to be challenged or questioned and they will eventually flee from strong women who are able to assert themselves. (Hint, hint ladies – “the disappearing man.”)

Insecure men prefer a mild woman who will worship them, not question them, not challenge them, and instead bend over backwards to please them. They prefer a woman who is very pliable and one who makes herself available all the time, forcing her to place her own life aside. (One of the reasons why very young, naïve women are highly sought after by men. It’s not always about sex.) Having that type of a woman makes an insecure man feel good about himself and more like a man.

Insecure men are an emotional wreck internally and to hide that from the rest of the world, they actually become very adept at overcompensating by creating a very refined external image that makes others believe they’re actually very successful in life.

What an Insecure Man Looks Like

Insecure Men Tend to be Loud, Boisterous Frat Boy Types

Insecure men are the guys that are the loudest in the room, the guys that are the life of the party. They are the guys that brag a lot about the successes they’ve had (20 years ago as a high school football player). They are the guys that, when challenged by other men verbally for their offensive behavior, either run away or throw a punch instead of providing a smart intellectual rebuttal (because they have no good excuse for their behavior). These types are usually found wearing Affliction Clothing line tees and True Religion jeans with heavy white stitching, sporting a few tattoos, dig MMA, have a close buzz cut on the sides, treat dating like a sport and have dined on a plethora of steroids. (This explains why they’re always exhibiting hostility and are usually “top heavy” with giant arms and a big upper body that is teetering on skinny legs).

Insecure Men Tend to be all Talk and No Action

Insecure men are the guys who are all talk and no action. The ones who have a tendency to constantly “school” others in a “know it all” fashion in an attempt to fool them into believing they have valuable knowledge to share with the world - while they produce no actual viable results whatsoever.

Insecure Men Tend to Exaggerate Stories

Insecure men are the guys at the bar telling exaggerated stories of sexual conquests with the ladies, yet are never actually spotted with a living, breathing one by their side. Insecure guys tend to have a long, long line of “crazy” exes in their past (not just one or two who truly may have been emotionally off balance), yet fail to realize the women weren’t all crazy and instead, were simply women who called him on his crap all the time.

Insecure Men Tend to Exhibit Offensive, Obnoxious Behavior – Towards Everyone

Insecure men are the guys that are quick to point out the flaws in others. They are the guys that drop small “negs” (negative comments) all the time directed at those around them, in order to bring insecurities in others to the surface, so as to misdirect anyone from noticing their own flaws and insecurities.

Insecure Men Market Themselves Well

They are the guys that have learned to “sell” themselves quite well on the surface, when in reality, they have no job, no car, are skipping out on child support payments and financial debts and are living in their parents basement.

Insecure Men Are Narcissistic Attention Whores

Insecure men are the guys that go around approaching women in nightclubs that are complete strangers and asking to take a selfie with them, and then publishing these photos to social media sites, thereby making them look like they’re in demand with the opposite sex. Their Facebook page is a constant stream of party boy selfies with the occasional self-deprecating post geared towards garnering a ton of compliments for themselves. As a matter of fact, I saw one recently that read, “I’m going to quit being such a man whore and start looking for a good woman.” (As if good women are going to jump at the chance to be with an old man whore.) And to my surprise, that comment garnered a lot of “Awe, you’re not that bad of a guy” responses from women. (Clue: If he’s telling you he’s a man whore – then that’s exactly what he is.)

Insecure Men Can Tend to Look Like the Cat That Ate the Canary

Can you say “smug?” Yea, insecure men create the impression that they’re very self-assured.

If you’re looking at a guy and he’s constantly sporting a “Billy Idol Smile” or a silly Cheshire Grin, and you get the feeling he knows something you don’t know – guess what?

He DOES know something you don’t know. . .he knows that you’re the canary and he’s about to swallow you whole.

Insecure Men Pull Stunts to Create False Appearances

They are the guys that, when on a date with them, leave their phone out on the table and are all too proud to openly inform you (and constantly remind you) that women all over the place are chasing them down. Yet they fail to mention that all the texts and calls they’re receiving are actually responses to the lame “hey” text they sent to every single woman in their Facebook account and on their phone 15 minutes before meeting up with you - so they can receive all these responses in front of you, thereby creating the impression that they’re in demand with the opposite sex.

Insecure Men Are Lazy, Lack Ambition and Seek a Free Ride – Single Mothers Beware

Insecure men are completely okay with riding someone else’s coat tails to the top, namely a woman’s. If there’s not a financially eligible woman to latch onto, they’re usually okay with a mediocre “status quo” for themselves (such as living in their parent’s basement). And when I say financially eligible woman, I’m not talking about a woman earning $100k a year. A lot of times, a single mother receiving financial assistance, child support and food stamps can fall victim to an insecure man because she’s got a home, food on the table, a reliable income stream, and an already existing living situation that the man simply slides right into.

Insecure Men are Flaky, Inconsistent and Full of Empty Promises

He’ll keep you floating on empty promises that he never fulfills. He’ll be like a magician who disappears and reappears at will. He’ll stand you up or cancel last minute for what he considers honest to goodness dates, which are most times actually sofa dates. And he’ll make good use of the learning theory called the random interval reward system to keep you hooked:

Insecure Men Cheat and are Opportunists in Life

The needs of insecure men are so hefty that many times, almost all the time, you’ll find that they’re also cheaters (insecurity and cheating tend to go hand in hand). Because the needs of insecure individuals are so very hefty, many times it takes more than one individual to fulfill them. Even if they weren’t outright seeking to fulfill those needs from several others, rest assured that when the opportunity presents itself - they will take the offer up. This is the reason that a lot of the cheating that occurs with insecure individuals is actually “opportunistic” in nature. When someone has cheated on you and you ask them why, if you hear responses along the lines of, “I didn’t mean to hurt you, it just happened” – then you know you’ve been bitten by an insecure man who took action on an opportunity that presented itself.

Insecure Men Move FAST

In the beginning, they lay it on thick and heavy, telling you everything they think you want to hear, zipping you into the bedroom and a relationship with lightning speed. (Warning: Moving too fast is a big red flag.) They’re pulling a number on you and the speed at which it takes place is mean to disorient and distract you from their real motivation – which is to use you and control you until they decide they’re done with you. They're not good at consistency though or maintaining any of this initial "flowery" behavior, which is why it's important to make a man repeatedly prove himself to you for a consistent length of time. The flakes won't be able to keep it up and they'll soon run once they realize they'll have to work to win you over.

Insecure Men are Emotionally Unavailable and Have a Shallow Orientation

Their inner world will rarely, if ever, be anything you get a peek into. They’re usually immature jokesters who won’t “get real” with you and they’re not interested in hugs and kisses, long talks, affectionate caresses or fulfilling your emotional needs. Being with them feels more like having a child to take care of instead of an intimate lover who’s an equal to you. Their primary goal is to get their own needs met, much like a child, which usually has a shallow orientation focused on nothing but primal, sexual needs and survival – and nothing deeper than that.

Insecure Men are Adept at Using Guilt to Their Advantage

Insecure men are never responsible and never accountable. And if you attempt to make them become that, they are not above spinning that back onto you somehow and making you feel guilty for asking too much of them, and not accepting them for who they are and what they have to offer – which is nobody with nothing to offer other than a mere presence in your life.

The Words and Actions of Insecure Men Do Not Align

Insecure men are men who say one thing – yet do something else completely different. Their words never align with their actions and in essence, they’re full of crap and constantly spewing a lot of BS at you.

The Manipulation

Insecure men (and women) are incredibly manipulative. They’re very adept at getting their negative needs fulfilled by others (because they can’t provide that for themselves). One can almost view them as the vampires of society in that they tend to suck the life out of those they’re partnered with via the hefty need for constant reassurance they have. “Maintaining “ them becomes a full time job.

An insecure man is not much of a provider, he’s more of a taker (the vampire) and contributing in any way other than his mere presence in your life is really not going to be his thing. He may work a mediocre job for a while at your behest, but eventually he’ll have a personality clash with someone at work or he’ll get a hang nail or some other ailment that he’ll use as an excuse to get the hell outta’ there - and then he’ll blame you for the entire debacle.

That reminds me of a National Lampoon movie with Chevy Chase and Randy Quaid, who played Cousin Eddie. Cousin Eddie is an insecure guy, constantly attempting to impress Clark and overcompensate in ways that ultimately make him appear as a buffoon. When asked about his job, his wife (the ever willing cheerleader in his life) does damage control and tells people, “He’s holding out for a management position.” And then it’s pointed out that he’s been holding out - for 7 years.

The End Result of Dating an Insecure Man

Insecure men won’t lift you up – they will only ever control you and pull you down, down, down with them – to their level. You can tread water for a while, but eventually, you’ll exhaust yourself, you’ll never be able to get ahead, you will feel like a 200 pound ball and chain has been tied around your ankle that you just can’t shake, and you’ll realize that it’s either sink or swim. You’re either going to go down with them, or you’re going to have to get away from them.

And mind you, if you don’t leave them first, nine times out of ten, they will eventually leave you. . .and most likely - in a lurch - and much worse off than when they met you.

After all, they are the vampires of the world and once they drain you of your life’s blood, much like a vampire, they have no use for the empty carcass that’s left behind. They are relationship jumpers who consider 3 and 5 month flings honest to goodness real relationships. And if they’re married, guess what? Most times, they’re still conducting those 3 to 5 month flings on the side anyways, or taking up the various one time opportunities that float their way. And beauty isn’t what it’s about when that happens, it’s about their insecurity.

Ever notice how many times the “other woman” in a situation like that is always a hot mess of sorts, and you wonder why the heck the man risked a relationship with a great, beautiful woman for – a bar fly that’s akin to a doorknob who’s permitted everyone in the building to take a turn? It’s rarely the Pamela Anderson’s or Scarlett Johansson’s of the world that play that role. . .it’s always some unassuming, non-descript woman that was like a scrap left on the floor for bottom feeders that leaves you shaking your head asking, “Why, why?”

The reason why is because the woman was pliable and therefore - made a good victim - and fulfilled a shallow need at the time. Remember, insecure individuals are very “needy” (man or woman).

Loyalty is not their thing and they will start to be dismissive of you entirely (not that they were ever really that attentive to you and your needs in the first place), eventually disposing of you when another more promising opportunity (victim) comes along. And if you have a child or children with them, it won’t matter. They’ll easily walk away from you and their own blood without pause, and in keeping with their status quo, will bail on child support, visitation, responsibility, accountability, and/or any financial debt residue left behind.

They will skip into the next relationship as if the one with you never even happened – and you will fast become one of the “crazy” exes he’s telling stories about and receiving sympathy from others over (like he once did with you). And don’t be surprised if, when telling others these stories, he begins to exaggerate it and starts to “project” onto you the very sin that he, himself, committed – cheating.

If you meet a guy who claims that every single ex (not just one or two) he’s ever had has cheated on him, you need to question why that is. He’s either an incredibly lousy, neglectful, apathetic mate – or he’s lying.

Are You Dating an Insecure Man?

In the beginning insecure men come on fast and strong, spreading compliments thick, for about the first 3 or 4 dates and professing to love you by the fifth. They talk strongly and often about a future with you very early on, too early, and tend to fast track you into the bedroom by doing so (because they know women, by nature, bond with men through physical contact).

Insecure men pick their victims well, identify their needs immediately, and then start to fulfill those needs fast – only to yank that all away from you and completely turn the tables once they’ve hooked you.

All those compliments, promises, talk of future, exchanges of love and hot sex. . .yea, that was the bait on the end of the hook. And once you bite, they know they have a winner and they pull back hard on the line, quickly and without warning, reeling you out of the lovely pond you were just swimming in - and onto very dry land where they will watch you eventually suffocate and die without remorse.

If you’re dating a man that’s leaving you feeling completely exhausted, totally emotionally drained, financially wiped out, incredibly neglected, abused and taken advantage of, entirely confused, suspicious and constantly questioning and second guessing yourself – you, my dear, are most likely dating an insecure man.

Get rid of him – NOW.

Protect Yourself

If you want to protect yourself from falling prey to another one in the future (hey, we’ve all been there) - work on yourself. Change always starts with YOU.

Behavior that is self-destructive need no longer take place. Hookups and one night stands, settling for less than you deserve, not demanding traditional first dates where you’re treated like a lady, drinking too much, giving men who treat you poorly a second chance or the benefit of doubt, not carrying yourself with dignity, behaving desperately – no more. It’s a fallacy planted into women’s heads by society that if you smile, sacrifice yourself constantly and “do, do, do” for others like a household appliance. . .you will receive love in return. So forget about that because the only thing that will get you these days is victimized and taken for granted.

Ladies, there are good men still out there, trust me on this. Yes, the “gentlemen” is nearing extinction and entering the realms of the dinosaur, however, they do still exist. And if you work on yourself and participate in things that actually build your confidence, rather than take part in self-destructive behavior that actually chips away at it– you will find that you are no longer attracted to insecure men, you will develop a radar that can see them coming a mile away, and good men will admire your strength, independence and strong will. . .and will begin to enter your life.

If you’re not ready and haven’t done the work, you won’t recognize them, you’ll pass them over, you’ll experience fear and you’ll confuse the “high” of sexual attraction with real emotion and love. If you have done the work, and you know your value and begin to understand what it is that you truly need from a man to be happy – then you can’t miss them.

If you’ve done the work, insecure men will no longer be drawn to you. Instead, they’ll sense immediately that you wouldn’t make an ideal victim - and they’ll quickly flee from you without explanation.

Seriously ladies, be thankful for all the disappearing men in your life - they actually saved you a lot of grief.

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Fire&Water said...

Great article MOA! The picture you chose made me laugh so hard because one of my exes (he was a blind date friend of someone I trusted...who I will never accept blind dates from any more!) used to use that photo in pretty much every Facebook post he made. He threw lots of compliments my way, but he was also crass, shallow, would say he liked something and then be unable to discuss it and was constantly prattling on about how how manly he was. The way he told it, pretty much every woman he looked twice at wanted to sleep with him. He had his own home, car and a good job. He also had a son (who was the "joy of his life", but also his exes' "fault" for not taking her birth control). He actually told me that he believed women should do all the giving in a relationship and that people should sleep together early on in a relationship because you could walk away if you weren't compatible. His true colors were obvious early on and we never got past casually getting to know each other but I had a bit of fun playing foolish and nodding wide-eyed at what he said, just to see how outlandish and base he would get. It became quite disgusting :-). ...He was also the guy who sent me a text a year and a half after I told him he wasn't the right guy for me and stopping communicating with him. (He must not have been looking twice at a lot of women :D) These days, if I see a guy who strongly identifies with the Dos Equis man, I put on double armor lol.
As an addendum: guys like him and the very insecure types are mostly pretty easy for me to spot. It becomes harder when they are confident in certain aspects of who they are, but not others.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror, this is another EXCELLENT article!!! It's like you were describing my DM, all the characteristics.. (complete with a few tattoos, big arms (thin legs!) and the man in the pic (the blonde one) totally reminded me of my DM. ) This is an outstanding article and I'll make sure to keep reading it. Thank you!!! Mary

Anonymous said...

I was dating a guy this Christmas who introduced me to his mother and whole family, said he loved me, said he loved me enough to give me a child, etc., and then he disappeared. He said he's never introduced any other woman to his family and that they were all shocked and asking about me. We had so many wonderful time together, but then he would get critical of me. Finally, I told him that I'd had enough, the criticism for stupid stuff will stop or I'm leaving, and he then promised not to fight anymore. We had one last good week where we didn't fight, and then I haven't heard from or seen him since 18 January. He texted me "Hey sweetness" a couple of days before Valentine's Day, but I've not heard anything from him since. I just blocked him on my phone and erased everything he ever sent me. I cannot understand how men can be so cruel. There will be no nice girls left to marry b/c we will all be so emotionally screwed up from hearing all of these lies for so long. I'm 39 years old, for God's sake. Can't there be one good man in 21 YEARS of dating? Just one that means what he says? Just one??? None of us can find a decent man? Things have changed, and I'm glad women can work now and not have to depend upon the largesse of a man. But now, men have no incentive to take care of us or keep their promises at all. I'm very sad that the world has changed to exclude love, honor, and any semblance of loyalty. There are so few good men out there these days. It feels selfish to even wish for one when I have so many single girlfriends going through the same things over and over again. Yes, the answer is to be happy all alone and just care for yourself. This seems like such a selfish world to live in when I have so much love to give to a reciprocal man.

Msmarvelfreak said...

Thanks for this one - I was married for twenty years to one of these. After being happy on my own for four years my first relationship turned out to be a DM after seven months. He too was an insecure guy. I have learned so much on this site from all the ladies and I am heeding your advice while dating on-line. No more insecure men for me and if that means no more men then I'm better off!

Anonymous said...


Holy Mary Mother of God... whoever you are.. you are on your way to becoming a legend. I just got my ass handed to me by an insecure celebrity d-bag but after reading this, I am happy to see him go. Good riddance to these chumps. If I feel my confidence waver in the days to come, rest assured I will be right back here reading your words. You are a saint... the patron saint and divine shepherdess of once brokenhearted yet romantically triumphant women everywhere.


To readers reading this with blue hearts, savor MOA's words. They are the light out of the darkness. You are not alone. You are not desperate. You are strong, you are together, and you are fine on your own. Be brave. Be strong.

- J.J.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror, this is Anonymous (with the clever, cunning ex who returned) who last posted on Jan 16, 11:34 AM. Thank you for this latest article. You've explored certain angles which I had not considered.

So, update. Clever ex manned up, took me to dinner (he did the work - made the reservations, etc.), he talked, I listened, and I told him in no uncertain terms that what he did was not acceptable. He made 2 lame excuses (about network coverage and not knowing that the date was important to me), but essentially did not deny that it was deliberate (he's incapable of lying when confronted with the truth). He apologised (and has apologised expressing remorse a few times since), and since then he has been trying to make it up to me - through actions, not just words. He continued with the dinners and dates and gifts, in fact it has been even better than the very early stages of when we first met. On several of these occasions we continued to talk through various issues.

So, what now. I recall your view that secretly, he's insecure and was pulling a power trip and his little stunt was all about power/control. Well, now that his little game was exposed and I called him on it (and he knows if he ever pulled a stunt like that again, I'm gone), he's not pulled any more stunts (save for one instance of disrespectful behaviour on which I called him out). In fact, he's been more or less the perfect gent. LOL, my use of the terms "tricks" and "stunts" bothered him - he keeps alluding to them. Mirror, you were right. No matter how much they kick and stomp their feet and complain, they prefer it when they're the man. He KNOWS how it should go - that he should be the one to initiate calls/texts/emails, make the reservations, drive to see me, pick me up, etc. etc. And truth be told, he's a lot more comfortable in his natural role and much happier than he ever was. To be fair, there has been a lot less drama of late too.

Where am I going with this? He doesn't exhibit any of the behavioural traits and/or characteristics listed in the article, and also does not fit the archetype of the insecure man-child/man-boy you describe. Save for that occasion (which has been dealt with, with your helpful analysis), he's been fairly well-behaved. We've settled into the natural push-pull rhythm of things, giving each other the space that we need, and so on.

So, I guess I'm moving forward - CAUTIOUSLY, although I'm not prepared to wait around forever. Do you have any advice? Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 23, 2:42 AM,
"Where am I going with this? He doesn't exhibit any of the behavioural traits and/or characteristics listed in the article, and also does not fit the archetype of the insecure man-child/man-boy you describe."

Well you're going to have to be careful with this one for a while is all, and observe his actions closely for an extended length of time in order to discern if he truly has changed. Because in the past hee HAS exhibited some of these traits. He has deliberately pulled stunts, he has attempted to take control, he has exhibited some offensive behavior and previously, his words and actions did not align and he's been inconsistent.

So what's next? What's next is - he has to keep this up.

He now needs to be consistent in his actions and behavior for an extended length of time. If he's bluffing you, he will not be able to maintain this for very long and he will get frustrated that he has to prove himself to you and he will start to act out, or revert back to previous bad behavior.

If he has truly made a change here, then he will try very hard to maintain this. He will be willing to prove himself a better man to you because he will CARE what you think about him and whether or not he will lose you. He will continue to make you a priority and he will continue to treat you well, and eventually, he will open up to you and comfortably fall into he newly found role in the relationship. Most of all, he will be happy with you, and he will no longer need to deliberately pull stunts.

But only time will tell. This will require you to observe his actions closely for an extended length of time, to see if he remains consistent and has truly embraced a change. If you're dating him three or four months from now and things are still going well and he is maintaining his new ways, then at that time you can begin to trust in him a bit more - slowly. But he's got a long road ahead of him and still a lot of proving himself an honorable man to you. And all you need to do - is observe if that's what he's actually doing, and making sure his words align with his actions :-)

Gem50 said...

Greetings Ladies,

The ending to this article is what I liked best.

Work. Work. Work. Work. It is so true.

It takes a lot of work to change old scripts and practice new actions. The good news is support is available (thank you Ms. Mirror) and practice makes perfect -- well, not perfect - who wants perfect? - practice makes better -- one step at a time.

The results are worth the work; you won't experience them immediately. You may feel them inside before you see them, but if you continue to do the work, you will be amazed at the transformation within as well as around you.

And if we are lucky, the opportunities for this work never goes away :)

(hugs for all)

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Mirror. I will watch him, observing all the "MOA ways" and the do's and don'ts explained in, amongst others, Argov's books.

I have a question regarding your comment "he will be happy with you, and he will no longer need to deliberately pull stunts." Just recently, he attempted the ol' "attempt to make her jealous" stunt by complimenting another woman on her clothing, right in front of me. No problem - no audience, no show, as they say, and later that night, I reminded him, "hey, no one's forcing you to stay, we all have free will; she's a nice person and you're free to do what makes you happy." He heard that loud and clear and aside from that incident, has been behaving. He made it a point to say that they were just friends, and he chose to refuse her invitation (on behalf of another guest) to attend another dinner event earlier that evening.

I understand that men pull stunts to reassure themselves. Do you mean to say that, as things get better, and we become happier, that he will feel less of a "need" to deliberately pull stunts - because he's happier? And because we're in a good place, and he becomes more comfortable in the relationship, that he will "feel" more secure, and is not (so) afraid of being hurt - and so will feel less need to pull stunts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Feb 24, 4:21 AM,
"Do you mean to say that, as things get better, and we become happier, that he will feel less of a "need" to deliberately pull stunts - because he's happier?

If he's truly changed and becomes happier with himself internally (more secure in himself), then he will be noticeably happier externally as well. So as HE gets better and HE becomes happier with himself, he will feel less of a need to pull stunts (to overcompensate for his insecurity), because he's at peace with himself and feeling good about himself.

"And because we're in a good place, and he becomes more comfortable in the relationship, that he will "feel" more secure, and is not (so) afraid of being hurt - and so will feel less need to pull stunts?"

It has to do with him internally (how he feels about himself), and less to do with anything going on around him externally (a relationship). If he truly changes (internally) then he will become more secure in himself and he will not feel the need to overcompensate and act out upon others.

It all depends on him. You won't be able to help him with that because he has to do the work himself. The change would first need to take place within him, internally, for these things to then start showing externally. A good or happy relationship isn't what's going to do that - HE is going to have to work on himself in order to be able to HAVE a good/happy relationship. And if he does the work on himself internally, then he'll feel better and happier externally and that will start showing in his relationships, career, friendships, interactions with others, etc. His internal change will then start to display itself externally.

Anonymous said...

You have written again a great article. I want to thank you for doing this. You have help me so much and other women too. I have found a man who I like so much, but he is also insecure, he is also selfish, but how can I get rid of him when the thought of it hurts me.

Anonymous said...

Sorry my mobile device is acting up.

I was going to say as always, you're right. I see that he's struggling with this, and is fighting the call to old habits (sudden wave of fear/insecurity, pulling back for space etc.). I think I will have to somehow convey that he has to get his act together, and step up to the plate, or I won't be around any longer. As you said, no one can help him with this. And yes, it's tiring. Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM,
The way to convey that he's going to have to step up to the plate or you won't be around any longer - is to do that through actions and not words or "talks" with him. And that means not jumping on his calls or texts, not initiating contact with him and seeing if he pursues you, not rearranging your schedule for him, and not giving him the benefit of doubt. If he's a man that's genuinely interested and he sees YOU pulling back on HIM, he'll step it up. And if he doesn't do that, then you have your answer, and it's time to move on, ya' know?

And if he doesn't do that, if he doesn't step up, don't beat yourself up for it or blame yourself. Because here's the thing. When folks have deep insecurities that affect their behavior and relationships like this - you can't help them. Nothing you do or say is going to change them. "Talking" to someone who's struggling internally with their own battle and instructing them on what to do will have absolutely no affect because the change that's needed needs to come from THEM and no outsider can compel that within them. They have to want to change, they have to do the work of changing, and they are the only ones that can help themselves. And that's really the entire reason that dating someone who's deeply insecure is so exhausting. . .because nothing you do ever helps them or changes them. They can only help themselves and in order to do that, they need to have a long talk with themselves, recognize and admit they need to change, and then take the small steps themselves needed to bring that change about.

When you're dating someone like this, you can talk, talk, talk and do, do, do and in the end - nothing changes, because THEY haven't changed and don't even recognize or admit that they need to. So it just ends up being incredibly exhausting because you wait around forever thinking something will eventually change and it you "do, do, do" to help them with that - only to realize years later that nothing has changed at all, and you've now wasted years investing into a situation that never made you happy in the first place, ya' know?

It might sound selfish, but in these cases when you're sacrificing yourself for someone who isn't doing that for you in return, and you're investing deeply in someone who's only investing in you on a shallow level - being selfish is ultimately what you have to do if you ever want to be happy. Taking on men who are "projects" rarely if ever pays off and you ultimately realize that you can't fix people. They are who they are. And if they're not making you happy - you have no choice but to move on, and away from them, in order to find your happiness and what you deserve in life and from your mate. Because in the end, you are responsible for your own happiness and if you don't break away from a situation that you're unhappy in - no one is going to come along and rescue you from that. . .and you end up realizing you have to leave if you ever want to be truly happy, ya' know?

Anonymous said...

I love this site, I have learned so much, thank you. I now see that my love life is a series of INSECURE, user a-holes. Since 1998 I haven't dated because it was so hard to shake that leech of a guy! BUT a year ago I met a man online. Turns out, he's probably the most insecure of the bunch! But at least I see it in time, before we moved in or anything. And he lives 2 hours away, thank goodness. Thanks again....this article was posted at the perfect time for me! And I will continue to work on my emotional health. Good luck to everyone. I recommend long distance love affairs if like me you're prone to this type of man ;)

Anonymous said...

I'm anonymous 26 Feb.
In love with an insecure man. Yesterday for example he said :Call you at 8:00 pm. We were going out and he never did.
Do you think they fall in love?
Sometimes I think if I leave him maybe he will be different with somebody else.
I'm so sad. What should I do?
it's like a roller-coaster with ups and downs.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 9, 2:11 PM,
"What should I do?"

Well, the article is pretty clear on that dear - reread it, let it sink in. . .and then think about whether or not this man can truly ever make you happy or make you a priority in his life.

And then do what's best for YOU, and make the best decision that you think will actually help lead you to what it is you truly desire for yourself in your future.

And in the meantime, when a man says he'll call for a date and then stands you up. . .there's a consequence to treating you poorly like that and taking you for granted - and the consequence is that he has no access to you. If your dog pees on the floor, you don't reward it with a treat. Instead, you place the dog outside and away from you, to signal to the dog that all that behavior will get him - is torn away from you.

So on the same token, when a human being treats you poorly - you do NOT reward them with more of your time and attention. Instead, you issue a consequence, and you put a lot of space and SILENCE between you. So that you signal to this person who's treated you poorly that if they do it again, the only thing that will come of it is - you will not speak to them and they will not see you. . .until they make repeated attempts that go unanswered and issue an apology. If he contacts you and doesn't apologize, you don't answer or respond - it's that simple. And you stay silent and non-responsive until he does the RIGHT thing and treats you with respect and apologizes in either a voice mail or a text. If he doesn't do the right thing - then he doesn't receive access to you - period. That's how you signal to people the way you expect to be treated.

Silence will speak FOR you - if YOU let it :-)

Anonymous said...

Thanks for your answer. I have being through this before no contact and then he calls and calls non stop and when I finally answer only hear why you don't answer the phone? Why you do this to me without explanation? no apology. Then I think if I let him go will he be different with somebody else? I hate the thought.
Thank you once again Moa. Don't stop doing what you do here, you help so many people with this. I will read again this article and follow your advice to get strength and to relieve this pain.
I have so much love to give him it hurts.

Anonymous said...

MOA, I'm new to your site and I like what I see here. I'd like your advice about my situation.
1. In my situation there was only one date.
2. The date was five months ago.
3. The date went well, though I (regrettably?) did not sleep with him. During the date he was talking about a second date. There was a kiss. He texted me immediately after he left me at home to ask what I was thinking and I played it cool. When asked what he was thinking he would not say.
3. We have unfortunately had a texting relationship since. Then, the texting became centered on me asking him to go out again (about once a month). Once he said he was busy but we could go out again soon. Two other times we made plans to go out (I initiated) and he "flaked" by not answering texts close to or on the date evening.
4. Though he flaked he continued to respond to me by text and to flirt with me.
I concede he may have thought that I texted him too much. In the middle of this I was let go from my job. I believe given the extra time on my hands I was compelled to text him more. But we are both very successful and busy.
5. He stopped responding and after several texts on my end surprised me by texting that his life was a mess.
6. I gave him about 3 weeks of no contact. Finally, I texted, wonder if life is less hectic and you would like to have dinner with me? No response. I was compelled to text the following day that I saw that he was featured in the press recently and I made an innocuous comment about it.
7. He texts me today, one day later, to thank me and respond to my comment.
8. My inclination is to respond in 2 days most likely with a reponse to flatter him, but my objective is to see him not to be in text-limbo.
What do you advise in that regard?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 10, 7:34 PM,
I don't want to burst your bubble here dear, but seeing him again most likely isn't going to happen - whether you text him anymore or not. If a second date hasn't happened in five months of texting, then it's simply not going to.

And before you begin to beat yourself up and blame yourself for that, please consider that most likely, the reason the second date hasn't happened is because of him and not you. Because this man's a virtual stranger and you really don't know him well, chances are there's a lot you're unaware of. He could have a wife, he could have a girlfriend, he could have a live-in girlfriend, he could be dating someone else, he could be looking for sex only (and when he wasn't able to use you on the first date he he bailed), he could've only ever wanted a text buddy (which happens more than you think), he could be doing what's called "e-maintaining" you to keep you as an "option" and - you're here commenting on an article about insecure men so - he could be insecure as well. And as you can see from the article above, dating insecure men is generally not a positive experience for women.

It could be a million things dear - none of which have anything to do with you. And the reality is that no matter what a woman says or does, whether she provides sex or not. . .you can't make someone want to be with you or want a relationship. Some people are serial daters and never settle down and never have any intention to, and they just date around all over the place. Some just seek sex and then disappear afterwards. Like I said, there could be a million reasons, none of which have anything to do with you. But the reality is that it's out of your control. So if it's peace you seek, know that "acceptance" is where you will find that peace. Acceptance of the reality and facing "what is" and forgetting "what might be" is what will bring you peace of mind.

If I were you dear, I'd cease communicating with him, at least on a romantic level. And if you think you can't view him as a friend only because you'll still be inclined to associate romantic notions with him, then I'd cease communicating with him altogether. Because you may not realize it, but keeping your focus on this man. . .is most likely keeping the door closed to any new man entering your life. Because when you're focused on one thing like this, you end up missing the signs and opportunities that come along that make space for someone new in your life. When your mind and heart are all wrapped up in one thing, then there's no room for someone new, ya' know? Not to mention, you'd probably feel a big relief letting him go once you got over the hurdle of doing so because that will relieve you of any anxiety, worry, wondering, questioning, etc. that's probably taking place.

So if I were you, I'd think on that a bit, let it ruminate in your mind for a while - and try to pull away from this situation that isn't working for you or making you happy, so that you can make space for a new situation that will work and that will make you happy :-)

Anonymous said...

This is more a comment. What about those women like me who are insecure? Should we never date again. I think it is easy to say, 'Don't let fear drive you.' But for me my condition is that I am insecure by nature. By the laws of attraction I have attracted like for like and the last 13 years have been filled with failed relationships.

I have been in therapy but cannot break the cycle of intense worthlessness made worse by men. OK so I have allowed it to happen but I can't undo who I am. It would be playing a game I can't win.

I have entered a life of aloneness only so my heart doesn't get broken by these men.

There are too many out there rather than the good (who I have never met and who are married to somebody else)

My question is, how can I live a life alone and accept this fate?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 14, 1:11 PM,
"What about those women like me who are insecure? Should we never date again. I think it is easy to say, 'Don't let fear drive you.' But for me my condition is that I am insecure by nature."

Well, what you need to understand dear is that we are ALL insecure by nature - it's part of the human condition. Now with that said, "free will" is also part of the human condition. And what this means is that you can freely will yourself towards progress, growth, change and forward movement - should you set your mind to it.

Notice I said we are all insecure by nature as humans, but also notice that not every human being on the planet ACTS on that insecurity or lets it take control and steer the wheel and be the driving force in their life? You can overcome your insecurities. You can build up your personal coping skills to fall back on and you can participate in things that build your self-confidence and eventually wipe away the majority of those insecurities by doing so. You're not helpless against them. However, ridding yourself of them requires lots of time, patience and self-love - it does not happen overnight. And in order to do that, you must face your insecurities and be willing to work on yourself.

"I can't undo who I am"

I disagree dear. People have overcome many, many horrible things in life and come out on top. It starts in the mind, a mindshift if you will, and the first step towards that is shifting your mindset to one of "I can do this" from one of "I'm helpless against this." As Henry Ford once said, "If you think you can, or you think you can't, either way - you're right." And he's referring to free will there and the power of the human mind.

By the Law of Attraction "like attracts like." Therefore, if you shift your mindset to that of a positive "I can" stance from one of a negative "I can't" stance - honestly that's half the battle right there. Because once you place yourself into that positive mindset, via the Law of Attraction, you will be emitting positive energy and therefore, you will also start attracting that same positive energy right back to yourself, thus becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy in a sense.

Add to that mindset lots of time, patience, self-love and inner work done on "self" - and before you know it, you're making a huge shift and along with that shift will come a sense of value and worthiness for yourself, which in turn raises your self-confidence that begins to chip away at those insecurities. Over time, as your confidence builds, your insecurities begin to slip into the background.

And while you may still carry minor insecurities, the big difference is that the end result is that you are now MANAGING them properly - and they are no longer in control, or controlling your life and your decisions, and the people you attract back to yourself, etc.

"I have entered a life of aloneness only so my heart doesn't get broken by these men."

I would suggest that you use that alone time to begin the process of self-love, which will build your confidence and help you make the mindshift from one of negative to positive.

If you don't love yourself dear, no one else is going to be able to love you.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"how can I live a life alone and accept this fate?"

Well, as I stated above - you don't accept it. That's the acceptance of defeat (negative). Instead, you use your free will to overcome that mindset and make the shift to one of "I'm going to fight to love myself and know my value so that the rest of the world can see it, too." And then you work on personal coping skills to help you manage these insecurities and the emotions and anxiety that arise with them. So that, instead of acting out on your insecurities, you now have developed healthy ways to manage them instead and they no longer are in control of your decisions, actions or behavior.

Some things that can be done to build personal coping skills are things like breathing exercises when you're feeling anxiety and feel like you may take action on your insecurities - instead, you take no action, you sit quietly, close your eyes and start counting your breaths in your head as you move your chest up and down, slowing down the pace of your breathing which leads to taking control of the anxiety you're feeling at the moment.

Or, when your insecurities are making you feel as if you want to say or do something you may regret later, instead of taking that action, take a different action instead. Instead of picking up the phone and verbally assaulting someone or questioning them, or behaving in a fearful manner of some sort - you take a walk, or you go shopping, or you call a friend or family member to meet you for lunch, or you go jogging, or you exercise or you participate in a hobby of some sort. You do ANYTHING other than take action on your insecurity and your emotions in that moment, and you distract yourself long enough for the feeling to pass.

If you do that, again you are managing your insecurities and they are not interfering in your life.

And if you make these things a regular practice for yourself, eventually they become second nature and you are no longer triggered to act on your insecurities and instead, you are triggered to take action on something that has a positive value to it and something that makes you happy and something that makes you feel good about yourself.

You put your mind into a positive place, you surround yourself with positive people who care about you, you participate in positive activities that distract the mind. . .and before you know it, you've made the shift and you are now emitting positive energy which in turn, attracts positive energy and people right back to you.

Again, none of this will happen overnight and it requires lots of hard inner work and self-love and discipline. However, it is possible to manage these feelings and insecurities in a healthy manner - versus taking action on them in a self-destructive one.

Anonymous said...

Hi, this is Anonymous from March 10.
I’ve ruminated over your comments and I have decided I still really want to be in touch with the guy, romantically. I wanted to jot you some further examples illustrative of the kind of guy he is for your feedback. I still wonder if you could suggest some sort of script to use to contact him. Incidentally, we are about 30.

About two weeks after our date when I texted wondering what he was up to, he answered, I’ve had 240 unanswered texts and 80 unanswered voicemails. He uses his personal phone for business but it’s not likely he had really that many unanswered texts. At that point my friend encouraged me to respond just, “hi, How are you?” No answer. He disappeared again.

How do you respond to his braggadocio? I can’t go back to that time, but for future reference? I’ve read your posts (I think they were yours) on scarcity and I think I must find that he is in demand or the illusion that he is demand attractive. Of course I’m aware of what he was doing.

I gave myself a first exit soon after. I said look me up when you are available, will you? He actually said I will-I’m sorry. Whether he would have looked me up, I don’t know because I hardly gave him a chance to.

Work and play are inextricably linked for him. The next time I contacted him he used my phrasing and said work had him super unavailable that weekend but we could go out soon! I let it alone, but could I have pinned him down at this point?

Another friend encouraged me to ask him a couple months back now by text, “I just want to clear things up, are you interested in me?” Really not the way to go I think. Now is just not a good time for me –I’m sorry, was the response. Always the gentleman, always I’m sorry.

MOA, I still wonder if you can give me somewhat of a script to use to contact him. I realize I have to be clear about what I want. Is it possible to mention I have more free-time now than I will in August when I start professional school. I don’t really know what that says about what I am up for. Or that I am sorry for clogging his phone with texts. It occurs to me not to apologize for anything.

I wonder if I could pick up the phone at some opportune time, out of the blue and call him. He returns voicemails with a text. I’m convinced last time I called him when he stood me up he hung up on me. He insisted he was getting texts to his computer, he was out-of-state shopping and that his phone died -I’m sorry. For frame of reference this happened before I gave him three weeks of space and before he responded to my text about his recent press. I would like to make myself look less available to him, but that’s just not how it is right now I’m afraid.
It’s unfortunate in all these machinations, I’m aware that we are really not getting to know each other. I realize we can’t really do that until we go out again.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 16, 10:42 AM,
I'm sorry dear, but I'm probably not the one to assist you with this. Because any suggestions I provide would be the exact opposite of what you're intending to do here and as a result, you would not be willing to perform them, thus making it a pointless effort.

I do not believe in women becoming the aggressor and "chasing" men, pursuing them, intiating contact, etc. I believe that if a man wants you, he knows exactly where to find you, and that's exactly what he'll do - he'll seek you out. And if he doesn't seek you out, instead of attempting to control that and him to no avail, you're much better off accepting the reality of the situation and what his actions are telling you, versus attempting to control things that are out of your control and driving yourself mad in the process and damaging your confidence and self-esteem when those efforts fall flat.

Because the sad reality is that nothing you do or say can make someone love you or want to be with you.

THEY have to ALSO want that as well. And when their actions are signaling that they don't, you're much better off accepting that versus thinking that if you do or say something different, it will somehow magically make them feel differently about you or the situation.

The sad truth is that it won't.

And as I stated in my previous comment, if you've been corresponding for five months and he hasn't asked you out again, he's stood you up or ignored you and made lots of excuses - then chances are he's not going to, unfortunately. Five months is more than enough time for a man to decide if he intends to see you again or not and men strike when the iron is hot - they don't let time pass. So if he hasn't made a move in that amount of time, then my suggestion would be for you to accept the reality of "what is" versus focusing on "what might be" and walk away.

Becasue becoming the aggressor and chasing him down will only make him withdraw even further from you in the long run if he's not interested, which he's already told you he isn't unfortunately:

"[asked] him a couple months back by text, “I just want to clear things up, are you interested in me?” {His response was] "Now is just not a good time for me – I’m sorry."

You've had your answer all along dear - you just need to accept it :-(

And if you pursue him after he's already told you he doesn't want a relationship, all you're going to be doing is bringing rejection upon yourself, which will damage your self-esteem and confidence. As a result, I do not suggest doing that.

Knowing all of that, and seeing all of that actually play out in the thousands of comments here on the site over the course of several years, is the reason that I generally do not provide suggestions or tactics on this site for how to pursue a man. I simply don't believe that a woman should reduce herself to taking on the man's role, the lead role, nor do I believe that taking that a woman taking on the lead role and attempting to control things she can't control ever leads to a happy ending. Most times, it actually leads to the man slapping the ole "crazy lady" label onto the woman doing the pursuing and avoiding her even more than he previously did. As a result, I'm not the right person to help you with that if that's the route you've decided to take.

I believe ACTIONS speak louder than words - and that there's TREMENDOUS value in actually listening to what those actions, or lack thereof, are actually telling you. . .versus ignoring those warning signs and red flags and attempting to control things that are simply out of your control.

However, I wish you luck and if it works out, do return to let us know - good luck!

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous March 16, 2015 at 10:42 AM

Hi girl, I just want to chime in and add to what MOA has said. A guy who is genuinely interested in you would not go 5 months and counting without a second date. It's just that simple. He will pursue you. No amount of work will let him go 5 months with no substantive contact/date. You have also given him many signals and initiated so much that he is very much aware that you're into him but he has still not taken the bait, so to speak. I realize it's hard to do but you should try and wean yourself off him and find someone who really wants to get to know you and build a relationship. If you continue forcing to be with this guy, he may come back but with ulterior motives (i.e. just for sex). Best wishes!

Gem50 said...

@ Anonymous March 14 1:11

I read your post and my heart ached for you. If I may, I’d like to contribute to this discussion.

What do you mean by, “…. I am insecure by nature.” If it means you are insecure due to outward experiences, then that is not nature dear. It is learned behavior.

I’ve been there. In my case, it was from a childhood of not feeling safe, not feeling validated, not feeling important, not feeling significant, not feeling loved, and not taught how to identify, understand and manage my feelings because simply having/expressing them was “wrong” and an inconvenience to others.

I went into adulthood pushing down the person I was inside, only knowing the deepest part of myself and not really knowing the rest of me.

Ms. Mirror’s advice is spot on, but how do we do it?

One step at a time.

In my 20’s I suffered from depression. I was a single mother, working full time and doing it all by myself. Although I was doing what no other woman I knew was doing: raising two children on my own, working full time, not taking any handouts, I felt horrible about myself. My therapist and a couple good men from my work’s EAP had said to me something similar to, “We wish you could see you the way that we see you.” It didn’t matter, I couldn't see what they saw so I didn’t believe them.

One day I decided to take a step… to test the waters. I volunteered to work for a local childen’s charity selling holiday decorations at the mall for $1.00 each. I decided I was going to walk up to every person I saw -- even the ones I prejudged as better than me; the ones I thought could see inside of me and see all of my mistakes, the ones I thought would think I was a loser, the ones I thought would never speak to me because of all of my flaws, etc.

I approached beautiful couples, single women, single men, teenager girls and boys, and families, and to my amazement not one of them reacted how I feared they would. As I smiled and approached, most of them smiled as well. I was courteous, and so were they. I wasn’t always successful, and I never felt 100% comfortable, but after a while I realized my fears and insecurities were unfounded -- I remember even joking with a bunch of young guys in leather jackets who were impressed that I had the guts to approach them (yes, I got a $1.00 out of them as well.)

This may seem like an insignificant act to some, but for me it was a huge step. Instead of thinking of what other’s thought of me, I did “my” thing. No one was the worse for it, and in fact, I made a whole lot of money for that charity that afternoon.

And what I realized was that my worries of what other people thought of me, my insecurities that they were judging me, or my assumptions that they were better than me, were just that: worries, insecurities and assumptions -- worries, insecurities and assumptions that I WAS MAKING based on past experiences.
We all can change dear, if we want to and if we are willing to do the work (there’s that four letter word again -- w o r k).

So, to add to Ms. Mirror’s advice for you, find one step to take to test the waters, to write a new script. One step. One change in previous actions. And then watch.

:) Hugs

Anonymous said...

I always learn a lot from your posts mirror.... Thank you so much.... I read your posts over and over again to remind myself and never forget.... There is a guy with my at work, he started by teasing me a lot with sweet talk a t first to make me help him with some things but then after that he started to tease me in a very mean irritating ways so I started to change me behavior towards him. Recently he suggested to participate with him in a project but because I know he is a taker and will never participate, I refused. He insisted and insisted for a month now but I still refused strongly. Now, he is very mad and tease me by saying I want to make you and see you cry and I want to buy a cage and put you in it!!! These comments were truly insane and I was literally shocked!!!! First, why he is insisting? When I asked him why, he said it will benefit you, so I said do you really care, he said no I don't, but then he keep insisting on me!!!! Second,Why he is mad if he doesn't care about me! and if he thinks it will benefit me and I refused so he gets angry and crazy, then why he says he doesn't care!!!! So confusing ..... By the way he is a player and has many girlfriends

Anonymous said...

This insecurity thing...it doesn't matter that one is a highly successful wealthy man does it? been in a long distance relationship with a controlling man who wants me not to wear make up, not to wear hair extensions I'm African by the way and just basically wants to rearrange me. So I told him I might listen to what he has to say but ultimately I will do as I please. He wasn't too happy about that but accepted it anyway. A few weeks ago I discovered he isn't who he purported to be. He lied about his name his age (told me his in his forties only to realize he is actually 63) sigh he looks really good though, his life his nationality everything. I only discovered this when he invited me to his country and I saw a suitcase with another name and asked him who that persona was and he said a work colleague. I didn't think much of it at the time then decided to Google the name and lo and behold I see his picture. He is hugely successful and extremely wealthy to say the least. I confronted him being the Sag I am seeking truth and all his a Virgo by the way. He said he was being cautious because in the past he has met women who have established what they think he is worth and only wanted him for his money so he wanted to make sure I want him for him. I just can't with the lies and I've told him this but he accuses me of being dramatic and cheating? reverse psychology much.?? anyway I haven't slept with him yet thanks to me finding this sight after dealing with a DM and started implementing the advice on MOA thanks Mirror! yesterday I told this man I don't want to be with him because of all the lies. He didn't put up a fight he just accepted it :( Told him I have issues and that his lying just brings them out wrote long ass messages on Whatsapp they got blue ticks but he never replied. so I just left it. I was really starting to like him but I can see his an insecure man and it wouldn't work. can I employ no contact on him after this downpour of emotions. prior to that for the four months he always initiated contact on Whatsapp everyday and called every four days or so I've never called him since I met him. I know I told him I never wanna hear from him again because of all the lies but why do I feel so conflicted. Please assist mirror


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 21, 11:40 PM,
Well, this article describes in detail why men like him act the way they do. It has nothing to do with his feelings, it has to do with his ego, his need for control, and his need for constant reassurance. He's already told you that he's setting out to make you cry and upset you, and his behavior falls in line with that so it's no secret why he's doing what he's doing here.

Men like this aren't worth dating dear. It's not an enjoyable experience to be around someone who's constantly attempting to push your buttons to get a reaction out of you simply to reassure themselves and make them feel better about themselves.

He's a player and he's doing what players do - they play games.

And this is a little game he's playing to reassure himself that he's in control here and that you care, whether he cares about you or not. Because if you react the way he expects you to (crying, pleading, begging), then he feels more like a man and better about himself. Being around someone like that is no fun, not to mention, very damaging to a woman's confidence and self-esteem.

If it were me, after he admitted that this is what he was attempting to do "I want to. . .see you cry" - I would never speak to him again. Because being around someone who needs to see you cry so that they can feel better about themselves is NEVER going to be an enjoyable experience.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"it doesn't matter that one is a highly successful wealthy man does it?"

No, not at all. People of all statuses in life can have deep insecurities.

"I just can't [deal] with the lies and I've told him this but he accuses me of being dramatic and cheating?"

Yea, that's called "shifting blame." He's attempting to shift blame off of himself so that he doesn't have to take accountability and responsibility for his own actions and instead - he's making up things about you to focus on. . .to get the focus OFF of what HE did.

It's a manipulation tactic.

"can I employ no contact on him after this downpour of emotions"

When you're dealing with someone who hasn't even been honest about who they are - you should most definitely NEVER speak to this man ever again. If he's lying about who he is, then he's probably lying about a lot more as well.

"why do I feel so conflicted"

Because he has been manipulating you the entire time and as a result, you became emotionally invested. But it's only been four months thankfully and once you take some time and space to yourself and stop speaking to him. . .you will find that in about 4 weeks, you'll start to feel much better and you'll see things much more clearly :-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, Whoever you are, man or woman, I adore you. Your website has changed me and my life ever since I stumped into your world. I have sent you a few messages in fact, but none of them got response back from you. That's OK. I am here to read, listen and to think...Your words and thoughts made me to reevaluate myself, to realized who I am again after the long painful path that I had been walk on...I feel I have find my inner power that no one can control me ever again. I am the king of my own kingdom now. Although I knew on the path I am walking on from now, there will still be the huge or small bumps, but I knew I will walk over them with my pride without hesitation. I learned so much from you and from this site. I feel as long as I know who I am, and what I want in this life, I will be OK. Thank you, I appreciate you.

Anonymous said...

I spent so much time on this site Iol your advises are gold.
I met a guy two months ago in a night club (he wasn't hitting on me like a jerk or anything, my guy friend were actually hitting on his female friend, and my guy friend ask me to ask him if his female friend is single. Then he tole me yeah she is single and then he ask for my number because he thinks I am very attractive ). I was in town only for the weekend then I went back home which is 2 hours away from where he lives... We were talking about meeting up, but never had the chance (he always wants me to go to him... I was thinking the same thing tho, I live in a college dorm and I do not think him coming over for first date is good because he'll have to live in my dorm and I am not ready for him to meet all my friends.)
Anyways, we have been talking via text for 2 months.. and finally I had the chance to be in his town (for other work stuff, so I could be in there for only one day). We said we should meet up around 8pm because he is always busy on that day, and I agreed (before that he keeps telling me that he is not really good with dates, and we cannot actually go for dinner because he had an appointment with his family already). However, before 8 he told me that he cannot make it cuz he had a few other things to do, so we put it off to 9pm, but before 9 he texted me that he will be here around 9:30, and then eventually push it off to 9: 45. At that time I was staying at a friend's place and if I went out with his at 9:45 I was afraid that I would be back to my friend's apartment too late and she won't be able to open the door for me. Also, she told me that I should not keep saying yes to him, so she texted him that it is too late. However, he texted back "it is fine if you can't, it is up to you". I do not think he felt sorry at all! so I texted him "yeah it is too late maybe next time",then he just replied "ok" then nothing.
I went back to my town the next day and never heard from him (received like 2 snapchats but ignored it)...
I do not know what to do, he seemed like a nice guy and very sincere at the beginning... but now I don't know, because I really think he does not try hard enough.... anymore
and tbh the other reason I do not want him to come over is that Im afraid I might have to offer sex... although he told me he won't try to have sex with me, but our text conversation get real sexual sometimes...what should I do?
What kind of things should I pay attention to to make sure that he is not the one for me? or should I give him another chance? Or should I just give this thing up?...
You are very smart on this kinda subject... please give me some advice...

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous March 24, 10:59AM,
Thank you dear, I'm so very glad you've found something you believe to be of value here :-)

I respond to all comments that contain questions. But some of these articles have pages and pages of comments, so you have to make sure you're clicking through to the very last comment page, the last comment, to see the latest response.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 25, 8:55 AM,
"We were talking about meeting up. . .he always wants me to go to him... I live in a college dorm and I do not think him coming over for first date is good because he'll have to live in my dorm"

Actually - no one should be spending the night together with a complete and total stranger anywhere, or under any circumstances, on a first date. Not only is he a total stranger, but spending the night together, sex or no sex, on a first date is not traditional dating. That's "hookup" type behavior which is completely different from traditional dating.

As a woman, if you permit a strange man to spend the night with you on a first date, either at his place or yours - he WILL get the WRONG impression about you. He will think or assume he might get laid or experience fooling around or some sort of sexual activity by doing so, and he will also secretly question to himself why a woman would even agree to let a total stranger spend the night with her. And the conclusion he'll jump to is - she's okay with hooking up, and she probably does this all the time - which is NOT the impression you want to give a man.

In traditional dating, the man ALWAYS comes to the woman first, he takes her to dinner or takes her out somewhere nice for the evening and treats her - and then he goes home. If he's traveled out of town to do so, then he behaves like an adult and he gets a room for himself or makes arrangements to take care of himself for the evening. A gentlemen does NOT burden a woman with providing him a room for the evening, nor does a gentlemen even EXPECT a woman to let a complete stranger spend the night. And if a woman does provide a room and does let a total stranger spend the night with her on a first date - it's human nature to jump to conclusions about the woman that lead somewhere along the lines of "she must do this all the time" - which is not what you want a man to think of you.

"he seemed like a nice guy and very sincere at the beginning"

Well, a guy who does this "he always wants me to go to him" is probably not a gentlemen dear. Nice guys don't make women chase them down or rearrange their plans for them or make the woman travel to them for the first date.

"our text conversation get real sexual sometimes...what should I do?"

Well you need to stop giving this man the wrong impression about you simply to try and please him. Don't be a "people pleaser" dear - be real. You're toying with the idea of letting a complete stranger spend the night with you if he does come to see you and on top of it, you're already venturing into sexual territory via sexting prior to that even happening. So what do you think he thinks is going to happen? He definitely thinks a this point that when he sees you, he's going to be receiving sex from you - because your actions are falling in line with sending that signal to him, ya' know? Talk of spending the night together right away, sex taking place via texting prior to even getting to know one another or having been out on one date, you traveling to him once already and attempting to see him. . .if you were a guy dear, what would you think, ya' know?

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

When dating - it's IMPERATIVE that your ACTIONS align with your WORDS. Don't think one thing but then take actions that signal something entirely different. . .or you'll end up in a situation you may regret later on down the line, ya' know? If you give a guy the impression that "you're down to fool around" immediately - that will never lead to a relationship and it will only lead to a hookup or booty call situation, and you'll feel used because he'll have sex with you, he won't want a relationship, and he'll think it's only a hookup. And if you question that, he'll say something like, "But you were okay with this, so what's changed?" and he'll be confused and blame you. So don't let that happen to you here - make sure your words and your actions align to give the right impression to the man from DAY ONE.

"What kind of things should I pay attention to to make sure that he is not the one for me?"

His ACTIONS. If he's taking none - then that tells you something. If he's only taking actions that might lead to sex and a hookup and nothing more - then that tells you something. If he only texts you about sex and doesn't ask questions or call or try to get to know you better - then that tells you something.

"should I give him another chance?"

Not if all he does is text you for sex (sexting). Not if he doesn't ask you and take you on a formal date for dinner or something nice that signals he respects you and wishes to get to know you better. Not if he doesn't call. Not if he doesn't come to see you and make arrangements to stay somewhere else for the night.

All of those things above signal a lack of respect and the expectation of a hookup or using the woman for sex and nothing more. If he doesn't change that and his behavior towards you - then no - he gets no second chance.

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for your response Dear Mirror, I absolutely love your insight! I still hasn't text him yet, I figured I should let him text me first and see if he felt sorry or not (I get one snapchat from him per day and I never responded.. because that is not actually "contacting me") but at this point I am starting to think I might be wrong too (because even though he asked me to wait almost 2 hours longer without any good excuse rather that he had a few things to do, I was the one who canceled it). Should I text him and try to resolve this misunderstanding? and if he eventually texted me first (I know it probably would be like "what are you doing " or "what's up" something completely not relate to that night) should I text him back immediately? and what should I say to him to remind him that he still owe me an explanation (or would this be too demanding since we haven'y even officially met yet and I am already being like this)?
Also, I was not really replying to his "horny texts", I was trying to be cool and went alone with his sexual conversation but then I realize that I shouldn't do that. So after that whenever he mentioned "his horny" I usually do not reply or tell him to go to sleep or I am going to sleep, and I am planning to tell him that I am not ready for this kinda text and stop doing this the next time he tries.
I do not know how to make him cherish me and treat me like a lady like when we just started talking, but now he is not sweet like he use to be. I feel it should be something I have done that make him acting like this now... I am not a very good texter, and apparently now he thinks I am very easygoing and "down to sex". because he was talking about dating and relationship and stuff, and now when I told him that "I only want to have sex with my boyfriend" he told me "but you had sex with someone who is not your boyfriend before...." and called me a liar in a joking way but I can feel that he probably wants to have sex with me before he becomes my boyfriend....
I do not how to treat him from now, what should I do after he texted me? (or if I text him first), and what should I do when he mentions sex and coming over and stuff....to make him treat me like a lady like he used to? we haven't had sex yet but I am feeling that we are still going down that "booty call" road, which I definitely do not want... but I feel like bring up the conversation would be a really rough thing to do, when and how should I do it?
Thank you dear mirror for replying me so fast! you've been nothing but helpful!

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM (with clever and crafty "ex").

So, I have been applying all that I have learnt here (and in the recommended literature), and reading the comments to stay the course, take inspiration and help keep myself centred. I have pulled back on that rubber band when I thought/felt it was necessary to do so, and he has always sprung back within a short time.

Reading through some of the older comments from the popular Disappearing Reappearing Man discussions, particularly the comments from Gem50 and Peter, I was struck by how similar some of clever "ex's" current behaviour is to Gem50's Virgo. For instance, I see and sense a power struggle of sorts, for power/control. He is aware that things are different, and has even said he prefers things the way they are now (and mostly seems happier), but he is also struggling (internally?). Sometimes, this struggle manifests itself in conduct that is evidently fuelled by still-present fear/insecurity. I have called him on that and made it clear he has to deal with it himself. Some days ago, he texted from overseas, asking if I "missed him" (he was feeling insecure and sought reassurance). I replied that I think it is he who misses me, to which he said "Yes!" Then, nothing (crickets) for a day, even after he flew back and we were supposed to meet for an evening event. He would usually text that he had returned, say hi, etc. and make arrangements to meet pre-event. He did not, although we did meet when he turned up. It turns out that he had texted me for a weekend date after the "miss you/me" text chain but as I did not reply (I never got the subsequent texts), he stopped texting. In other words, there was a wave of fear and he pulled back. There was some tension that evening and, when I breezily wished him a "have a good trip" for another forthcoming trip, he got a little mad. After he apologised and we kissed and made up, on hindsight, I realised that his little outburst/tantrum was deliberate. He had instigated the fight so that he could receive the emotional satisfaction of kissing and making up. Misery just wanted company. He made me his emotional punching bag and I fell for that - despite knowing that this is one of their little tricks. 1 up for him, ugh!

In any event, it seems clear to me that he is struggling - internally? I am mindful of the fact that in the past he has, as Mirror reminded me, deliberately pulled stunts, attempted to gain the upper hand/take control, exhibited some ignorant/rude behaviour and been inconsistent in some respects. In some of these areas I see improvement, but when he grows frustrated with having to prove himself, he acts out and reverts back to previous bad behaviour - not all the time, to be fair, but on occasion, as I am now seeing.

Mirror, do they ever change? Is it ever too late for them to change? I know change starts from within and they have to do the work. How do I push him to be a better man? To fulfil his full potential and not allow him to be lazy as all the women in his life have allowed him to be? Does part of it depend on his level of interest? That is, he will not want to lose me (if I walk) and hence, he will make the effort?

Anonymous said...

Hey again mirror.....
I totally agree with you that this guy (who tells me that he wanna see me cry) is insecure man. I was really confused that he has feelings for me and that was why he always insists on me ...... On the other hand he is so rude to me .......That day I suggested something and he said stay quiet in front of everyone and I was embarrassed and told him don't ever talk to me like that and now he is the one who is mad at me!!! What is the deal with this behavior? He always projects his mistakes on me and be mad at me without any reasonable excuse.......

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 25, 11:13 PM,
"I am starting to think I might be wrong too (because even though he asked me to wait almost 2 hours longer without any good excuse rather that he had a few things to do, I was the one who canceled it"

You cancelled it - as you should have.

It's disrespectful to keep someone waiting like that, your time is valuable too. And when a man starts to signal that you're not a priority to him - you are not required to tolerate poor treatment like that, nor should you tolerate that. You did nothing wrong here.

"Should I text him and try to resolve this misunderstanding?"

Nope - because there is no misunderstanding to resolve. He was rude, he was ignorant, he was disrespectful, he did not make you or his plans with you a priority and as a result of HIS actions, you had to cancel. There's nothing to misunderstand about that, it is what it is - and it's HIS fault, not yours.

"should I text him back immediately?"

Nope - you do not reward bad behavior with more of your time and attention. If he treats you like this and then when he calls you "jump" - he will interpret that as you being desperate for male attention and willing to jump at the opportunity for it, even when the man has treated you poorly and taken you for granted.

"what should I say to him to remind him that he still owe me an explanation"

You don't say anything - you let your actions and your silence speak FOR you. He already knows he owes you an explanation. You don't have to tell him that. And if he's a decent person, he'll offer one without you asking. . .because it's the right thing to do.

"I do not know how to make him cherish me and treat me like a lady"

You know how to do that? YOU treat YOURSELF like a lady to be cherished. How YOU love yourself and how you handle yourself - your own actions - are what signal to others that you're a "prize."

Meaning, if a woman disrespects herself (has one night stands, sex on the first date, gets drunk on the first date, etc.) - then people will treat you disrespectfully, as you treat yourself. On the flip side of that, if you respect yourself (don't tolerate poor treatment, do not have sex on the first date, do not get drunk or drink too much, etc.) - then people will respect you, because you respect yourself.

How you value and treat yourself - signals to others how THEY should value and treat you:


Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"what should I do when he mentions sex and coming over and stuff....to make him treat me like a lady like he used to? we haven't had sex yet but I am feeling that we are still going down that "booty call" road, which I definitely do not want... but I feel like bring up the conversation would be a really rough thing to do"

You don't have to bring up the conversation dear - all you have to do is respect yourself and not participate in these things he's attempting to talk to you into. . .and your actions and how YOU respect YOURSELF will tell him all he needs to know.

And if he walks away from you - LET HIM - because that's a big red flag that all he wanted to do was use you for sex, and he had absolutely no intention of considering a relationship in the first place.

HIS actions are also speaking loud and clear - are you listening to what they're telling you? This is a big red flag dear "he told me "but you had sex with someone who is not your boyfriend before...." and called me a liar."

This guy has sex on the brain, he did not make his date with you a priority, he disrespected you by doing so, he's never apologized, and now he's getting uptight about whether or not you'll have sex with someone who isn't your boyfriend. Honestly dear, I believe this guy's out to use you for sex because his actions are falling in line with that.

Don't let yourself be used here dear. If he's going to be ignorant about it and walk away because you won't permit him to use you for sex - then LET him, because he's not a good guy if that's the case. Gentlemen do not do this to women.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM (with clever and crafty "ex"),
"How do I push him to be a better man?"

You cannot control others dear - you can only control your reaction to them. He is who he is and unless HE wants to change, nothing you do or say will force him to do that.

"Does part of it depend on his level of interest? That is, he will not want to lose me (if I walk) and hence, he will make the effort?"

It all really depends on him dear. He may or may not be compelled to change by you leaving, however, if he's this deeply insecure, chances are it'd take a lot more than that. Meaning, HE would really have to want to change and not because of things going on externally, but because he really, truly wants to change - internally.

Don't take him on as a "project" dear. Many women do that and think that over time, they can have a positive effect on the man and his behavior and that in time things will change. And while that's a nice dream, it's not reality. Because again, the reality is that we cannot control others, we can only control our reaction to them. Additionally, we cannot help those that do not want the help, or that don't think they need it.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 27, 10:16 AM,
"What is the deal with this behavior? He always projects his mistakes on me and be mad at me without any reasonable excuse."

He's insecure - and this is how insecure individuals act. They lash out at others, they exhibit odd behavior, they overcompensate, they attempt to control others - it's just what they do. Which is why I strongly advise AGAINST dating deeply insecure men because staying with one can actually be incredibly damaging and leave you deeply scarred yourself.

Anonymous said...

Great post......
Mirror, do you agree with me ????

when a man always prevaricates with indirect comments and actions with me, never sat with me and talked directly what he really wants... I concluded that this guy is a manipulative player who is not serious enough to sit and speak about his feelings directly ...... I concluded that this guy's actions and talk are part of playing the game on me with bad intentions because if there was any good intentions he would be at least honest and stop playing these games .....as I read in one of your posts that if a guy is dishonest with a woman that means he is not afraid of losing her and consequently he has no feelings for her and he's only playing his game and adding her to his list ..... So what I did is that I ended everything with him..... Do you agree that I did the right thing?? I am in my thirties and you know women are desperate in this age, I want to marry and have children before it's too late that is why I always question myself if I lost this guy.....

tell me your thoughts please, I really value them


Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror...... ladies and gentlemen who read on this website...... I need your opinion and thoughts if you read my comment

Love or hate??? Jealousy or bullying??? or simply projecting his insecurities???
he makes these comments and actions:

1. I wanna see you cry
2. I like seeing you mad
3. I feel so happy when you are upset
4. I wanna lock you in a cage
5. when I make a comment or voice my opinion, he makes fun of everything I say or just shush me up
6. making fun of my voice and everything I do
7. make me question my decisions
8. He makes me mad and then he acts mad at me
9. He laughs when I am hurt and "say do you expect me to comfort you" and then laugh at me
10. I help him but when I need his help he says he is busy or ignores me

Anonymous said...

I just read all of the discussions here now! And I am in the moment of venting, angry and hurt at the very moment...Why are women get all these from men? I wonder but not surrender who has create all of us to began with? The human natures, nature of human. I am hurting badly...so I may speak badly here. I don't hate men, and I think some women have the same behaviors that made all men hate us---women in general, as we hate some of the men's nature. So to whom we shall blame? or not to blame at the human nature? bad and good. I am so frustrating with the issues I have read in this discussion. MOA, is there any good solution on people getting hurt from a relationship? any? How am I going to make a final peace with myself? One of my girlfriend recently said to me that she cuts off sexual activity from all men since she is very much a sexual person in nature. I don't get it? I knew even the monks and nuns have the desire of sex! although they don't say it loud, but that's matter of truth. We are human, human has seven desires as nature, how can we repress the sexual desire like that? That's not natural and human. If there is only the Platonic love or called spiritual love ONLY, that's insatiable in human nature, who can take on that for our short life span? I need to understand this better from MOA, would you share your minds with us? I appreciate it.

Anonymous said...

I'm not taking him on as a "project", Mirror. Not too long ago, when I let him back in after cutting him off, he did seem to understand that he needed to be a better man. And for some time, it did seem that that's exactly what he was trying to do. I saw glimmers of change.

This week, he's been somewhat of an a**, reverting to his old tricks/stunts (pulling back, not calling, flaking, etc.) - all because I told him that he was insecure and needed to deal with his own s*** instead of projecting and acting out on ME. Perhaps he's expecting me to revert to my old self, act insecure and needy, and chase.

I'm not doing that, of course, it's exhausting - to the point where I might even be ready to call it quits. I'm not thinking straight so I shall take no action now. Riding the elevator earlier, my watch read "1111" ... I think I know what you will say about that.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I just saw the numbers "1111" again. A few days ago, it was "0202", "0303" and "0808". What's your take on this? This is an area I'm not familiar with. Thanks.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Do you agree that I did the right thing?"

I believe you have dear - because the reality is that this man simply was not making you happy, nor did it appear he even cared to try. If you sensed him being evasive and vague and non-committal - then chances are there's a reason for that. He's either playing a game, he's insecure or he's emotionally unavailable, non of which make for a great relationship.

Always follow your intuition, listen to your gut - and think of YOURSELF first ;-)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 29, 5:22 PM,
"Love or hate? Jealousy or bullying? or simply projecting his insecurities?"

ABUSE - that's emotional abuse.

He's an abuser who clearly suffers from low self-esteem (which creates control issues within him).

You need to remove yourself from this situation dear. . .there is absolutely NOTHING to love about a person like that, nor is a person like that even capable of loving another individual (because they don't love themselves). No one enjoys spending time around someone who's abusing them, nor should you even consider doing so.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 29, 6:45 PM,
"MOA, is there any good solution on people getting hurt from a relationship?"

Well - there actually IS good that can come of it. Let me explain.

Sometimes people come into your life to be "teachers" for you. Sometimes they're not meant to be your lover or your husband or your friend - sometimes, they're meant to be a teacher. And the life lesson they are teaching you, while very painful. . .is also VERY valuable as well. Because through your painful experience, this person, this teacher, has actually taught you what NOT to tolerate, what NOT to do and in doing so. . .actually helps you better determine what you need, what you SHOULD do and how you should expect to be treated by others.

So believe it or not - a lot of good can come from these painful experiences, if you look at the individual who hurt you as a "teacher" of sorts. You may not have known what you wanted or needed or were worthy of previous to meeting them, but after your experience with them - they have helped you narrow down what you do want, what you are worthy of and what you need from another individual as your partner.

"People come into your life for a reason (teacher), a season (guide) or a lifetime (soul mate)."

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM (with clever and crafty "ex").

Events have somewhat overtaken your views about change not being possible unless they really, truly want to change. This entire week, he has flaked and "disappeared" (after a fairly good week last week) save for random "Hi" texts which I ignored, followed by more texts ("Hi! 3rd time" - he was counting). After ignoring those, he called, and began babbling on about mundane topics, then after my monosyllabic answers asked "Anything new?" (translation: "anything wrong?") He called again later when he was at a store and wanted to pick something up; I was polite, non-committal, and cool to the point of being cold. I ended by saying we'll "talk later."

So Mirror, you were right. This is a replay of the birthday let-down in December where he had buttered me up with good vibes and promises, then failed to follow through on purpose so that I'd become upset, emotional, and give chase (and hand him the power). I see the same pattern this week, and it happened without any warning although it clearly was premeditated and deliberate. I had called him "insecure" and it seems to me that he is now attempting to trigger that and other fears in me, to make ME the unsecure one. It also feels like a "punishment" of sorts. He's also flaked on other things; on some of these things, it's to the extent that my reaction is that it's laughable to even think it's going to happen. Not good. Reminds me also of the saying blowing hot and cold - hot (manipulating); cold (true colours).

What gives? Isn't that downright mean, mean-spirited and cruel to let someone - whom he's supposed to love - down like that? What good things ever come from such conduct? I would not do this to him but he apparently, has no qualms about doing this to prove a point and gain the upper hand. It's disappointing, sad, upsetting and yes - hurtful. I've been reading and thinking - I don't deserve this. On the contrary, I deserve better, someone who will be man enough to work on himself, and lift me up, not bring me down and make me feel bad about myself. Who needs that? Who wants that?

So now, I've gotten to the point where I'm ready to walk, for good. It's too draining and I'm not wasting more years investing in someone who isn't even interested in investing in himself. Thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much MOA for your advices ..... You are helping me overcoming my sadness and vulnerabilities .... Thank you

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM,
"I've gotten to the point where I'm ready to walk, for good. It's too draining and I'm not wasting more years investing in someone who isn't even interested in investing in himself. Thoughts?"

You have to do what's best for YOU - and forget about him.

He's certainly not making you a priority or fulfilling your needs, he's abusing you and toying with your emotions because of HIS own issues - and if he continues along this path, I can assure you he will NEVER have a healthy functioning relationship. He will always only ever create toxicity in women's lives and he will end up alone as a result.

Being in this situation is NOT healthy - and you need to remove yourself from it ASAP without even bothering to explain yourself to him. This is one time where I honestly think just "disappearing" on someone is truly the best thing to do. . .because maybe there's a glimmer of hope that in doing so, you'll help him to discover something about himself.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror.

I met him to tell him that perhaps, we should spend some time apart as I would like to date other guys. I also said I wasn't sure we could be friends as I had never done it and I wasn't sure I could. And, I was thankful for everything he had done for me, etc. etc. We had already made plans to have dinner the next day, so we did. But that whole afternoon after our "talk", he was in full game mode, mirroring my communications and so on. Clever fellow! Ugh!!!

Honestly, I think I have not reached the point where I am ready (strong) enough to just up and disappear. At least, no compelling event (like birthday stunt) has occurred which would compel me to do so. It's also currently somewhat difficult as he is working with me on some projects and we had to meet twice this week for that.

I do see however, first hand, what dating an insecure individual feels like. It makes the woman feel "less", question herself, wonder, etc. All not good things and I am getting tired, as well, having had the benefit of reading the material and posts on this site, I now know that I deserve better. Mirror, do they ever only change when THEY themselves, within themselves, desire to do so? What would compel them to change? A drastic life-altering event perhaps?

pisceswoman said...

so true Mirror ! i met another gym guy thought he was really nice and respectful at first he took me out a couple times but i think he had alterior motives he loves to eat and im a pretty decent cook so he always wanted me to cook for him and in exchange he would train me at the gym ... but after he decided to lecture me one night on and on for keeping him waiting for 5 minutes i told him i wasnt interested in a relationship with him of any kind and the loser who lives in his friends basement has zero education and takes steroids to beef up (which means he also has a small d) decided to throw out some insults about something he knows im a little insecure about (my age)-hes a little bit older than me and after an exchange of messages he sent me this "and here is a fact at your age if your not correct no man will waste his time as there are plenty of young women who are ready to replace you..you have nothing to offer but age" lmao so i told him he can have fun dealing with his crazy ex girlfriend who is stalking and ruining his life and that was the end of the that! ive learned from your site that the most insecure men are the ones who want to make a woman feel insecure as a tool to gain leverage because hes manipulative enough to know if he knocks her down a couple notches he will have the upper hand and get what he wants. Disgusting.

pisceswoman said...

oh and by the way im only 30! so any loser idiot who tries to make me feel "old" can kiss my ass!!!!

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA, this is Anonymous from March 16 @ 10:42 AM and March 10. You said I could check in if I heard from him again. I just received a text from him!!!!

"Unfortunately I am not able to go there. About to declare bankruptcy on my business. Very hard time." I'm not sure what he means unfortunately I am not able to go there. Is he referring to my recent suggestion (2 weeks or so ago) to meet up? Unanswered. Was this text really meant for me because it was sent by iCloud to my phone. My inclination is to respond: "Was this text meant for me. Call later." (Also I had been trying to get him from moving from text to calling for the duration of our contact) Also, perhaps you think I should drop the Was this text meant for me? Please advise.

Anonymous said...

MOA it's Anonymous from March 16 and March 10 again with text from reappearing man who randomly texted this evening, "Unfortunately I cannot go there. I am about to have to declare bankruptcy on my business. Very hard time".

My friend advised I text: "Sorry to hear about your troubles, call me if you want some company." (And I did)
So now I'm in that awful limbo again. Your thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous from March 16 and March 10,
"My friend advised I text: "Sorry to hear about your troubles, call me if you want some company." (And I did)."

Well, it's unclear to me why a friend would actually suggest jumping on the communication from a man who himself disappeared and took some two weeks to respond to you. You do not reward poor treatment from a man by giving him more of your time and attention because men have a tendency to translate that as "desperate" :-(

When a man ignores you for two weeks, then sounds one weird text and - BAM - he gets an instant response or a response the same day - that basically tells him, "You can disappear on me and treat me as poorly as you want and no matter what, I'll still be here." Which then translates to men generally as "desperate" - and that's not a good impression to give a man because once you do that, that's what he'll tend to always think and his treatment of you won't get any better - it'll actually get worse.

This man disappeared and ignored you for two weeks - and you responded the same day - and then offered your assistance. See what I mean? You offered assistance to a man that's been treating you poorly. . .instead of showing him a consequence for his poor treatment of you:


"So now I'm in that awful limbo again. Your thoughts?"

I know this is going to be hard to hear dear - but please realize I'm attempting to help you. I may not be telling you what you want to hear, but I AM trying to help you with a bit of "tough love" so bare with me here.

My thoughts are - you're going to have to accept that you've placed yourself in limbo :-(

By jumping on his communication instead of showing him consequences, he now still maintains the power and you are once again in limbo. All that response did is reassure him that you're still there, willing and waiting on him, which is not a good thing to signal a man because as much as I hate to say it - it can lead to them taking you for granted and not making you a priority.

As a result dear, there is nothing you can do at this point, other than accept that and keep moving forward with your own life. And if/when he contacts you again - if I were you - I would NOT jump on his communications. He's disappeared numerous times, he doesn't make you a priority, he hasn't asked you out again in some 5 months, he doesn't call. . .he's simply not worth an ounce of your time dear. You deserve better than that and if you keep accepting his poor treatment and responding to it, signaling to him that it's okay to treat you this way and then offering him assistance as a reward for that poor treatment - then yes, he'll keep taking you for granted and popping in and out of your life :-(

So if it were me - I wouldn't respond to this man ever again. Or at least not until he's either apologized, or invited a "talk" of some sort. If his communications didn't include either of those two things, he'd get no response from me at all.

Anonymous said...

I am in the same boat for the past nine years! I truly appreciate your commons here.
Mine its been done for good after I dropped my conclusion letter to him from last night. Although I see him now, as a little mouse who tries to nipples a bit here and there...no direction, even he is a medical doctor. Well, I am moving on, no third time for me, no third time charm for me either. If he gets back, I will definitely make him to eat the consequences that he caused me in my life.

Anonymous said...

Hi MOA this is April 10 @ 8:36 pm. It was actually more like 8 days since I heard from him rather than two weeks. Regardless, you did not mention how long I should have waited from the time he texted to respond. Just curious for the future, what is your recommendation?

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM.

I noted your advice/view to simply disappear, but I could not bring myself to do it.

But now, with recent events (him taking me for granted, not making me a priority, reverting to old ways, games tricks and stunts - despite knowing that I know what he's up to), I have to. I am forced to. I thought I was holding my own well (and this is when he went into game mode again) but all it did was made him think I was still there, waiting and willing. All the games and stunts are doing is pressing my buttons and making me anxious and upset, and it's just too much. I don't deserve this.

So, I will have to use NC again, possibly for the last time. To be honest, this breaks my heart because I thought he had changed, or was beginning to, and truth be told, I had invested in him, in this process. And there were reminders of things past, where he went out of his way to help me and stand up for me in certain situations, which I will never forget.

I know what you said about not making him a project and I did keep that in mind. I think I also know what you'll say now, so you can dish out the tough love if you like.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM,
It is what it is dear - it's a valuable lesson in self-love.

You are important, your happiness matters, you are the only one who can, and will, ever look out for yourself properly, you deserve to be happy, you deserve to have a man in your life that cares for you and protects you and aims to fulfill your needs, and you deserve to be loved in a way that's real, healthy and uplifting.

And it's only when YOU decide to make YOURSELF a priority - that any of this can happen :-)

pisces woman said...

Hi Mirror and all you wonderful ladies on here- just an update! i know i always come on here sharing my love woes and dealings with douchebags-i've had my fair share! I started to give up on love and ever meeting a decent man but i continue to work on myself and my self esteem daily and most importantly learned very important lessons from my past experiences and now i have finally met a decent guy! hes sweet, successful, always positive and although hes not typically what i go for in the physical sense (hes not tall and im actually taller than him when i wear heels :+[) just a little background- i always said i would NEVER go for a shorter guy but what he lacks in stature he makes up for in other ways.He always wants to take me out,he comes to pick me up, he listens when i speak, he compliments me, respects me and always pays for dates! he is not on the fast track to sex because quite frankly i think hes a little scared of me -he's seen my feisty side lol! and at this stage in his life he tells me he is looking for more than that. He's 33 and recently divorced but on cordial terms with his ex he never speaks badly of her either which is very important because it shows that he is not bitter at all and doesnt place all the blame on her. He seems to be very happy right now and in a good place in his life. When we are together his positivity is contagious and rubs off on me and i feel more positive and relaxed and most importantly he doesnt spark any insecurities within me like trying to make me feel old and washed up like no man would want me because im 30! Remember ladies- only the Insecure Losers who usually dwell in basements in their 30's LMAO and have'nt much to offer a woman would do such a thing! Thank you Mirror for shedding the light. Im taking things slow and steady with this guy and even if nothing more than a friendship comes out of it at least i know there are still decent gentleman around who would love, respect and cherish the right woman. And ladies my advice -give the shorter guys or less attractive ones a chance because at the end of the day a man that treats you like a queen and would make a good husband/father is what will make you happy and content in life. Its not about lowering your standards it's just about realizing what's really important. The really good looking ones will usually have a harem of women chasing after them and this will spark insecurities within a lot of woman and cause turmoil in the relationship. I actually find myself more and more attracted to this guy the more time i spend with him because he treats me nice and of course i also treat him just as nice :-)

Anonymous said...

Mirror, this is Anonymous Mar 2, 9:42 AM.

So I started NC and he has been texting, but not calling (after not receiving any response to the texts; unlike 1st round of NC). In one of the texts, he asked if he could "call to say hello" - no response.

Then today, the 6th/7th day of NC, he texts this: "Hey [my name], you studiously avoided all my texts. You succeeded and I ensure no further heavy lifting by you. You are smart good and savvy and as the saying goes: Good better best, Never let it rest, Till your good is better and better best. All the best!"

I know this is a motivational quote, though I was really was not expecting this. My initial reaction was, ??? Anyway, I texted back saying, "You are who you are, and you clearly are still not ready for what I have to offer and perhaps may never be. I thought you were serious about becoming a better man. Call me sometime if and when you get ready, if I'm still single then, we can talk over dinner. Take care."

Did I say too much? I'm just plain tired out from all this. Thoughts appreciated.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 19, 11:55 PM,
"Did I say too much?"

Not at all, actually what you responded with was perfect because that text of his actually acknowledged that he KNEW exactly what you were doing and exactly what HE needed to do (yet failed to do) - "I ensure no further heavy lifting by you. You are smart good and savvy"

He basically admitted that he was attempting to make YOU do the work (the heavy lifting), and that you were smart enough and savvy enough to not let that happen. He knows exactly what's going on and what he needs to do, and if he chooses to do nothing about it, then you have no choice but to accept that with grace and dignity and move on, which is what you did there.

Anonymous said...

In retrospect, the preceding 4 weeks or so before this latest (and final) round of NC was an exercise in him trying to get me to chase. He had allowed his fears and insecurities to get the better of him and pulled back on several occasions, and on at least two occasions he was explicitly mirroring me in text communications, before I got fed up and told him I had had enough and wasn't playing. Mirror, you are right. He well understands fears and insecurities and how they can be triggered and brought to the surface. Yet, what has he done all these years to deal with them? By getting others to chase him??! I know that all his previous girlfriends chased him, but - he was turned off by this and had no respect for them.

He had said he intended to man up, to step up to the plate for me and so on, but I see little evidence of this. Argov is right, they don't respond to words, they respond to NC. Even on the last day we spoke (before I deployed NC), he knew something was not right and I was upset. He said he wanted to send flowers the next day, but didn't. Frankly, it's disappointing, and it's sad.

If I had never stumbled across this site, never read the literature, and not done (some of) the work, I never would have realised that any of this was happening and would have let him push me over again - and me and my emotions would again have become roadkill. More importantly, I now am able to see myself - and him - through clearer eyes.

It's tough. I have learnt so much, and still have so much to learn.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I thought I would write with a short update.

So he's been quiet after my last text - this could be it, or perhaps he could not read the text (as my phone converted it to a multi media message and he's overseas on a mobile plan with limited/no data provisions). At any rate, 2 days later, he texted (from yet another country) a casual text regarding some political developments in our home country (it was like he was having a conversation with himself). It did not call for a response so I remained silent. That was it.

Perhaps this is it, perhaps not. Who knows? I am trying not to think too much or care too much. Ultimately, stepping out on comfort and familiarity, and into the new and unknown is lonely and scary - but isn't this part of the journey, of overcoming emotions, fears and insecurities? And as was said in an article, "Just do you and don't worry about us, because we're going to do whatever we want to. You can't make us do anything, just point us in the right direction and we choose not to follow, that's on us."

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 24, 3:34 AM,
"Ultimately, stepping out on comfort and familiarity, and into the new and unknown is lonely and scary - but isn't this part of the journey, of overcoming emotions, fears and insecurities?"

It most certainly is. If you're not willing to step outside yourself and explore new territories, ways of doing things and ways of looking at things - then you're not going to grow. EXPERIENCES are what aids our growth - and if you don't have any new ones, then you won't have any new growth.

I think the message that gets lost and that many get confused about regarding my opinions and the tactics I suggest on this site is - it's not geared towards getting the man back. I don't worry about ways women should exhaust themselves trying to get the attention of men who have already proved they're not worthy of your attention in the first place. That's a pointless effort.

Instead, many of the tactics and opinions suggested here are geared towards self-growth and improvement, becoming "whole" and always striving towards exhibiting the "best" version of yourself and not getting run over and left for dead - so that in doing so, in becoming "whole" and happy with yourself and confident. . .you ultimately end up beaming that newly tapped energy out into the universe, and via the Law of Attraction, the universe sends that same exact energy right back to you - in the form of people and experiences that are like-minded and exhibiting energy that's vibing the same as yours.

Kinda' like that old saying "You get what you give." If you exhibit and emit a lot of grief, chaos and confusion and insecurity, you get a lot of grief, chaos, confusion and insecurity right back. But if you become a higher version of yourself and you begin to exhibit and emit a higher energy, a more positive energy, then you're going to get the same right back. You're going to start to attract like-minded individuals right back to yourself.

Change always starts with YOU. If you want things in your life to change, then you have to change things in your own life and about yourself. . .and those changes will then start to ripple out to those around you and affect your experiences in a positive way :-)

Rather than beat your head against the wall attempting to change others, focus on yourself instead because the best investment you can make is in YOURSELF. That's the type of investment that really pays off in the long run.

Anonymous said...

Update: He popped up again, texting about meeting for our favourite sporting activity (he's a lot better at it than I am) - no response. Two hours later, sounding agitated, he texted again asking if I had received earlier text and if the answer was "no", to at least text that and he would "move on" with others.

These texts are just little taps (to get me to chase) and then he runs off again when he receives no response because, as you pointed out, he knows that he has lost control.

I see that he hasn't changed (how is that possible in 2 or even 4 weeks?); perhaps he never will. You are right, it is so much more rewarding to turn all of one's attention and focus on yourself, and focus on self-improvement and growth. This is not a message that people want to hear (yea, even many of those who pass through this site; even yours truly, initially), because it's easier to take the easier route.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 26, 4:47 AM,
Doing what's right and probably best is EXTREMELY difficult, while making mistakes and taking the wrong path actually comes pretty easy to us. Just remember - the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. . .and expecting different results ;-)

Anonymous said...

i recently reunited with a guy i was seeing casually two years ago, (on and off), that time i felt that he was cheating with his gf with me but has always denied having a gf.
Last february, we saw each other again after 2 years and he started pursuing me, though things didnt go smoothly straight away, things have been going great with us again and the relationship is levelling up, then last last saturday morning I kinda walked out on him, we were sleeping beside each other when he left me in the room to answer a call in a hurry, naked, and then i got upset and decided i need to get out of his house. I realised now that it was such an immature thing to do. You know jumping into conclusion and just storming off like that without really asking him why. Even when he really pleaded to me not to go home. It was only in the morning when i wasnt mad anymore that i realised my action was very hasty. Anyway, i did swallow my pride and went back to his place to tell him im sorry. But he didnt open the gate and his phone was off. I basically told him that i understand if he doesnt want to see me anymore but was hoping that he'll hear me out one last time and I wont bother him anymore. He did message me back and said that he was still asleep and apologised that he missed my call coz his phone was dead and he said that am probably at my dentist appointment already. And so i asked him if i can see him after my appointment and he said 'it's ok, i'm not mad or something'. I decided to swing by his place anyway afterwards before i head back home coz it's quite near my dentist but I missed him coz he was having lunch somewhere so I figured he didnt want to see me so i just said sorry on the phone and he said sorry as well for overreacting. He was planning to come to my event that night and when i asked him if he is still coming, he said he's not sure anymore and he didnt come and i think that he probably wont message me anymore. My friends said to give him some time and space, but my personal trainer said that i should reach out and it’s been a week so I decided to send him a casual message to say hi how are, hows the week going? and no reply. (my other friend wanted me to wait for 2 weeks to contact) so I’m guessing he’s not interested anymore, and I’m so devastated, I am not sure if i still send him a text message to explain my side so i have peace of mind, some of my friends says yes, and some of my friends says no, so am getting more and more confused. My heart is heavy and my judgement on things a bit cloudy and i need some sound advise, and one of your advises worked before so i am hoping you can help once again. what should i do?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 26, 11:09 PM,
"My heart is heavy and my judgement on things a bit cloudy and i need some sound advise, and one of your advises worked before so i am hoping you can help once again. what should i do?"

Don't do anything dear, leave things be for right now. You don't want to come across as desperate, clingy or too emotional, and you've already apologized. So everything you can do, you've already done at the moment.

Instead, give the situation some time and space. Let everyone's feelings and emotions level out. If you attempt to communicate when your emotions are in turmoil, it's probably not going to go as you had planned anyway. And if you continue reaching out, you risk rejection and more hurt each time. Let him process how he feels about what has happened, and see if he comes around again. When he's ready, he may reach out. And the fact that you received no response to your last text message to him signals he's not ready to talk yet. So give him the time and space he obviously needs right now, be patient, don't beat yourself up - and once this all blows over, he may reach out again as if nothing ever happened. Or he may reach out for a talk. Either way, the ball is in his court right now. . .observe and wait to see what he'll do with it. And if you don't hear from him again in about a month or so, do your best to move on. Chances are he'll eventually circle back around and seek you out once he's moved past this and hasn't heard from you in a while.

Anonymous said...

This is Anonymous MOA, from the guy who I hadn't seen again in five months. As you prob recall he resurfaced to tell me by text he might have to declare bankruptcy on his biz. I said sorry to hear about your troubles, call me if you want some company. I sent you an earlier comment with our texts back and forth, but it has yet to be posted. Last text from me said, honestly my dad is in the hospital now, I'm gonna need some flowers from you. His last text in response to that said he would pray for my dad, hope he gets better. ... he has all but disappeared from social media. By the way, I met him in person, not online. He has ignored my subsequent texts. I just thought after he said he would pray for my dad I would tell him I'm in town by text would he want to get together. No response. ...OK let me ask you, why is he doing this? I want to call him but I don't know how to play it. How would you? I would like your analysis here

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Apr 27, 3:35 PM,
"I want to call him but I don't know how to play it. How would you?"

Me personally, I would never call a man that's ignoring me. I'm not an advocate of women pursuing men in any situation in the first place, and I certainly wouldn't risk rejection or getting hurt by attempting it further with a man that's already non-responsive and ignoring me because his actions are already telling me all I need to know, ya' know?

It's like the old saying, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results."

When someone is non-responsive and then even disappears from social media entirely, their actions are speaking loud and clear - they don't want to be found. And most times as a result, the more you attempt to contact them, the more they're probably going to distance themselves. Knowing that, it's not a good idea to continue contact attempts because all that does is force you to endure more rejection, which is never a good thing and there's no reason to put yourself through that.

Instead, listen to what his actions are telling you and spare yourself the pain - his non-responsiveness is actually saying something. A man that is genuinely interested will seek you out. Have faith that if this man is genuinely interested, HE will seek YOU out.

And if that doesn't happen, be thankful that you found out sooner rather than later that the pairing simply wasn't meant to be. Sometimes things work out, and sometimes they don't. Either way, we are forced to accept whatever comes our way, because we cannot control others, only ourselves. We can't make people love us, want to be with us, want a relationship or want to work on things to make any of that happen. They have to want the same things too, and if they don't, there are two options that remain. You either damage your self-esteem and confidence by attempting to control the situation to no avail and suffer rejection as a result - or you accept what is and you eventually find peace in that and walk away with your self-esteem and confidence intact. Either way the choice is yours - but as for me personally, I see only hurt that can be experienced by attempting to contact someone that is signaling that they do not wish to communicate at that time.

As a result, I would not attempt any further contact and instead, I'd pull WAY back and go silent, giving plenty of space and time, to see if he's actually a genuinely interested man or not. If he seeks me out, I have my answer (he's interested). If he doesn't seek me out, I have my answer (he's not interested). If that route is taken, you spare yourself the pain of rejection and incorrectly appearing "desperate" to him (because yes, men perceive pursuit by a woman as "desperation"), and in a short amount of time - you have your final answer and you can walk away with your dignity intact if need be. Because what's important here in the end is YOU - not him :-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror need your help,

BF and I live in different cities. Been involved for over a year. Said he was in middle of divorce. Last Jan he said agreement reached and on judge's desk to sign so it was all done. Have been a bit suspicious of his behavior.

Recently he said he was coming here to see me. While looking thru some CL ads for my city, noticed an ad that sounded like him but wasn't 100% certain. His ad was a lonely married man looking for a married woman. Wanted to meet up, have drink and possibly become good friends. In an off chance it may be him, I decided to answer it. Low and behold it was him.

So i confront him about what was going on. He said he posted the ad to see if I was seeing others and if I would answer it. He deleted his ad right away by the way. Why in heavens would a single woman answer an married man's ad? Does not make sense. Do you think he made the entire story up? It was a clever one I might add.

He also said he was having lawyer meetings to get his divorce done. Said I thought it was all done last January to which he replied that lawyers are still fighting back and forth. So how can this be? Do you think he got back with his wife in the meantime?

Would really appreciate your advice. I think I should dump him and that he is nothing but a serial lier.


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"How can this be? Do you think he got back with his wife in the meantime?"

Well, I hate to say this but. . .I don't think he was ever getting a divorce.

It feels to me that the entire time, this has just been a "story" he's been practicing, crafting and honing to help keep single women strung along, possibly more than just you I'm sorry to say. When you get these guys that are on Craigslist. . .they're just bad news. Period - case closed - bad news. Nothing good ever takes place in Craigslist personals. Their personals are notoriously "shady" in nature and as such, Craigslist personals tend to attract "shady" individuals who use them regularly in turn.

And a lot of times, the Craigslist stuff is just the tip of the iceberg regarding what these folks are up to (hence my feeling that there could possibly be multiple women in your shoes with him right now). I'm always astonished at the amount of women who report here that they've discovered a seemingly "good guy" participating in really shady stuff via Craigslist personals. And when you find "seemingly good guys" surprisingly leading double lives at the opposite end of the spectrum, down in the trenches in Craigslist ads - honestly, to me these guys reek of men with sociopathic tendencies.

The "socio" portion is the "seemingly nice guy" half of themselves. Sociopaths are different from psychopaths in that. . .they're social. They're generally attractive, very likeable, charming, well liked individuals that are well received by others at first glance. (Ted Bundy and Casey Anthony spring to mind here as an examples of that - popular, well-liked.) The "pathic" or "pathy" portion (sociopathic, sociopath) generally refers to the "disorder" - the personality disorder.

So what I'm getting at here is that these men who appear as seemingly likeable good guys, but then are discovered to be leading a double life that's down in the trenches where you'd least expect to find them - many will have sociopathic tendencies a lot of the times. Think about it. To pull this type of a lifestyle off, you have to be a comfortable liar (no empathy or sympathy for others) and you have to lack a conscience (no remorse). And people who are comfortable liars and lack a conscience are capable of God knows what. . .because they don't have those built-in "stops" or barriers in their mental/emotional makeup that many of the rest of us have that actually stops us from behaving badly.

And that makes them dangerous - not necessarily as in "serial killer" but as in - capable of causing others great pain without an ounce of remorse.

I don't believe anything this guy is telling you, nor would I ever even consider giving him the benefit of doubt. And you have to remember, these guys are pros at this type of lifestyle. Meaning - they're quick on their feet. They can come up with explanations in the blink of an eye:

"i confront him about what was going on. He said he posted the ad to see if I was seeing others and if I would answer it."

And most times, they purposefully add LOTS OF DETAIL because they're so good at this, they instinctually know that it's human nature to assume the more detail, the more believable it appears to others:

". .It was a clever one I might add"

But what happens is, their stories become so complicated that eventually, they trip up:

"Last Jan he said agreement reached and on judge's desk to sign so it was all done. . .He also said he was having lawyer meetings to get his divorce done. Said I thought it was all done last January to which he replied that lawyers are still fighting back and forth."

I'd run so far and so fast from this man - that he'd never see anything but the blur of a whirlwind moving past him.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, this is Anonymous of April 26, 2015 at 4:47 AM.

Update: Clever "ex" went silent (disappeared) for a week, no doubt a pull back/reversal in an attempt to get me to reverse my stance (i.e., wonder where he's at, level the playing field for himself, create attraction, scarcity effect).

Then, after a week, he texts: "Hi [my name], how r u?", followed by another text to join him for a live screening of a boxing match tomorrow.

Now, to me this is rude and disrespectful - expecting me to chase, less than 3 days notice, and to watch a boxing match to boot. It does not go unnoticed that he's asked me to watch a boxing match (although I have nothing against this). And no "talk" or dinner. I think he knows this. And has done this, nonetheless, to achieve ... what? This actually makes me angry, because he really is a piece of work - and it's clear to me he hasn't done ANY thinking at all. Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 2, 11:18 AM,
"This actually makes me angry, because he really is a piece of work - and it's clear to me he hasn't done ANY thinking at all. Thoughts?"

If you're angered at his behavior and your gut is telling you that he's a "piece of work" and you feel as if you're being "played" - don't go along with it, don't respond and remain silent to those attempts. If he's smart, and chances are he is and he's well versed at this, he'll "get" what that means. And if he's serious, he'll have to up his game and adjust his approach accordingly.

If what he does works for him, he'll keep doing it. But if what he does doesn't work for him, he'll have to come up with a new plan if he wants to attain results ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror.

Quick update: He tapped a "Hi [my nickname] !" 2 days ago, after I did not respond to his previous texts (or turn up for the boxing match). Then, nothing.

I see a distinct pattern here, no surprises. It's Day 22 of NC and frankly, even after all this time, some days are better than others. Today is not one of my "better" days.

Last night, I got thinking for a while. Do insecure guys ever care about making their girls happy, as emotionally mature, decent guys do? Or do they care ONLY about themselves, gaining the upper hand and maintaining control? Is it all about them only?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 6, 1:52 AM,
"Do insecure guys ever care about making their girls happy, as emotionally mature, decent guys do? Or do they care ONLY about themselves, gaining the upper hand and maintaining control? Is it all about them only?"

Unfortunately, a lot of times it is only about them. Because you have to remember - insecurity is very similar to immaturity. Insecure individuals are very "child-like" in many ways and just like very young children - their main concern is getting THEIR needs met through any means necessary. It's very difficult to think about the needs of others when your mind is still so very small and young. In order to think of others, you have to expand your mind and look at the big picture. Children are unable to do this because they're simply not equipped with those skills in life yet. And much like children, insecure, immature adults are equally ill-equipped mentally and emotionally to think like that.

Anonymous said...

What are your thoughts on the trend of middle-aged divorced men dating women that could literally be their daughters. In some cases, within 3 years of their teen-age daughters! I was talking to a man that was what I thought a little too old for me (15 years older). He made all sorts of salutations, and talked about a future, and all that. We have had an online correspondence and he seems generally pretty cautious about the women he has on social media. Then, he all of a sudden is flirting (and maybe more) with a girl almost his daughter's age! I am pretty disturbed and have elected to stop communication with him. It was just like a reality check. Like REALLY? I also have a high school girlfriend who is "engaged" to a man 16 years her senior. It just seems wrong to me in many ways. Is this happening because younger women can't get commitment from men their own age? I know it has always happened, but the new youth obsession and dirty old man syndrome seems to be legitimized and rationalized more than ever. It's actually encouraged! And then, all the 1st wives are left in the dust. As a woman in my 20s and now 30, I was always really annoyed by women dating out of their age group...bc it encourages men thinking they can ditch their wives at 40 and find a 20-year old. I only once dated a man 20 years my senior (but he had no children) when I was 25....and broke up with him bc it was too weird. Now, I am shocked that someone would date someone almost their daughter's age...it is a blow.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. I've been thinking about this. Isn't the difference between very young children and immature adults this - that the former lack the capacity to see the bigger picture, do the right thing (and act accordingly), whereas the latter CHOOSE not to? Perhaps this is also a function of how much self-awareness they have.

I was also thinking about the modern day epidemic of men (and women) playing head games and messing with emotions to "weaken" their target, to trigger fears/insecurities and get them to chase, thus handing the power to the perpetrator. Clever "ex" and I are not of the so-called millennial generation; we come from the generation who still believes in the good ol' days when "courting" took place. Yet, it seems, these games and stunts are not unique to the millennial generation - even older men do it. Does it ever occur to them that the better way is to man up, step up to the plate, ditch the games and stunts, and take the lead - like a real mean should? Wouldn't that be so much easier? And isn't that truly a sign of strength, not weakness? Whereas to take the "easier" path (games/stunts) is, as you have written, actually a sign of weakness?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 8, 2:49 AM,
"What are your thoughts on the trend of middle-aged divorced men dating women that could literally be their daughters. In some cases, within 3 years of their teen-age daughters!"

I think men who behave this way are incredibly insecure and emotionally damaged. I mean, I get that youth is attractive, but the reality is that there's little to nothing in common with an age gap like that - and when you add in that there's a daughter near that age as well, the creepy factor seeps in because it's just downright weird to be sexualizing young girls the same age as your daughter.

An age gap that large leaves a generation gap basically. And when there's a generation gap, there won't be too much in common and the things that are held in common are somewhat superficial things at times. I just think with that type of age gap, there's nothing "deeper" to grasp onto as common interests.

I mean, yea he likes the way she looks. And yea, maybe they like the same music, and a few movies and books. And yea, maybe they see a few things in life the same way. But when it comes to making decisions in the relationship, or when it comes to what they each want for the future, or how they handle themselves and their emotions and stuff like that - life experiences and earned wisdom come into play, as well as emotional maturity. . .and even just those two things right there can cause huge problems. They may seem minor at the beginning but further down the road, they become glaring issues.

When you meet men who have a history of this, honestly, I wouldn't waste my time with them.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 9, 7:09 AM,
"Isn't the difference between very young children and immature adults this - that the former lack the capacity to see the bigger picture, do the right thing (and act accordingly), whereas the latter CHOOSE not to? Perhaps this is also a function of how much self-awareness they have."

I would agree with you that self-awareness plays a role - as well as emotional maturity or as some refer to it, your emotional EQ. If you're emotionally immature, then you're not even aware of the choice you're making. If you are emotionally mature, then yes it's a choice.

But the thing is, insecure individuals generally go hand in hand with a low emotional EQ. Emotionally speaking, they're still very "young" and immature, much like children. So even if the decisions they make appears as choices, a lot of the time they're not mature enough to realize the ramifications of those decisions and as a result, tend to be more like children in that respect.

Because your emotional EQ is:

". . .the level of your ability to understand other people, what motivates them and how to work cooperatively with them. Five major categories of emotional intelligence skills are recognized by researchers in this area:

Social skills

You can read more here: http://psychcentral.com/lib/what-is-emotional-intelligence-eq/0001037

"Does it ever occur to them that the better way is to man up, step up to the plate, ditch the games and stunts, and take the lead - like a real mean should? Wouldn't that be so much easier?"

It would be, but this depends on the individuals themselves.

"And isn't that truly a sign of strength, not weakness? Whereas to take the "easier" path (games/stunts) is, as you have written, actually a sign of weakness?"

As mature individuals see it, yes, taking the easier and somewhat cowardly way out is a sign of weakness. True strength is seen when people do the hard work - the things that make them uncomfortable and don't come easy - but that are ultimately much more rewarding in the long run.

It's really easy to maintain the status quo or follow the masses or to skirt around the work and find the path of least resistance. True strength is when you face your fear, face change head on, create your own path and don't follow that of what's in fashion at the moment and work through obstacles and anything that's in your way.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that Mirror, I've been reflecting on this. It seems to me that clever "ex" does actually have a high degree of self-awareness, of what he's doing and why he's doing it. He was taken aback when I called him out on his tricks and stunts some time ago (bet no one has ever done that to him). Where he falls short is in self-regulation and to some extent (in this area), empathy - either not knowing or not caring about the impact of his actions on others. In this regard, I think that one of the primary motivating forces for him is his ego - to receive validation and reassurance, and gain and maintain the upper hand. Again, as you noted in another comment thread, this is "fear-driven". Fear of being hurt, fear of losing control.

Anyway, update: After a "Hi [my nickname]!" some 8 days ago, and then disappearing, he's popped back on radar again today with another breezy (and more warm text): "Hi [my name]! How are things?", followed by him informing me of his travel plans and an invitation to drinks and/or our favourite sporting activity together. And guess what, it's Day 29 of NC. There really is something magical about the 30-/60-day time frame.

Since he's "disappeared" for 8 days, I might just mirror him and respond after 8 days, or not at all, I don't know at this point. Strangely, yesterday I felt better than I did in a long while. I finally felt like I could love him and release him to find his own way, once and for all, and that I'd be fine myself, finding my own way.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,
Thanks! I am anonymous May 8 2:49 A.M.
I agree it is really weird and creepy. I don't think he's actually dating the girl (yet), but he is engaging
in questionable "sexual overtoned" convos with her on FB...on pictures that eveyone (including his daughters) can see! I think that's not only bizarre...but it is like he's trying to advertise it. Oh well. He is still liking my FB and trying to stay in contact with me...but I am breaking it off. That just seems over the line to me. I am not going to "compete" with a classless 20 year old... His daughters must be mortified. RED FLAG!!! He's too old for me...but at least I couldnt be his daughter...(unless he started at 15 LOL). Just messed up. Thanks!

loretta said...

Hi everyone - and MoA. Love the stories, hate the stories, had to weigh in on "Insecure Men." Are there any secure men? I haven't met any. Married two men who both bailed out on their children early on in the marriage. Dated a handful of them off and on through the years. Currently, online dating again and could write a book about all the "First and Only" dates I have, going on 45, I think. Can you imagine, 45 first dates? Good thing I can wear the same outfit. haha

I posted on a thread about "consequences" -- my ex-sorta-boyfriend (he never really labeled it, but we're both 50, so it's all kind of silly) and I are writing a movie together and it's going very well. Yes, you can be friends with an ex, but only if you are able to let go of any expectations of him, or hoping you'll get back together, or treating him the way you did when you were dating. I treat him like a good male friend (of which I have many), and all the pressure is off. I don't fuss over him, or flirt with him, or ever suggest anything other than times we'll be available to write. We returned to writing at his house (we wrote at mine for a month after he and I broke off the "romance" part), and I think he thought that might get me to stay over or be sweet to him again. No dice. I am all business. After a couple of weeks of that, he started getting antsy. I'm pretty certain, based on his schedule, the condition of his house, his unshaven face, and his recitation of his activities, that his rebound relationship did not work out. What a shock. (LOL). Anyway, he brought up the relationship and I let him have it. He was trying to make it out like he was a good guy and I flat out told him he was a Big Fing Dbag. He laughed so hard, he cried. Seriously, he almost fell over, he laughed so hard. I was completely serious.

A week later, he got a little drunker than usual, initiated all sorts of affection (which he never does), told me he loved me (which he never does), walked me to the car (which he never does), and texted me for an hour after I left. I was cool, casual, nonchalant, not rejecting him, but not encouraging him. The following week I sent him a picture of the baseball stadium where I was watching a game, sort of to tease him, because he would assume I was on a date (which I was), and he called me to make sure I was coming over that night to write. That night, he was kind of stand-offish, and I thought it was hilarious. I was cool, nonchalant, business-like. He needs help sailing a boat from one port to another and I offered to go along. Nobody else wants to go, and I can crew a sailboat. He and I will have a lot of time on that boat to write.

Meanwhile, I had a couple of dates with a guy who looks like he might be a DM. I am completely educated, thanks to this site, and I am ignoring his disappearing. I'm not emailing, calling, sending little texts, nada. He and I had two really great dates (one at the baseball game above), and then, poof. He doesn't call all weekend. I'm going to mirror him. It's been 4 days since I've heard from him, and I will match those days to respond when he "circles around." I didn't get the impression he was dating other women, but whatever it is, he neglects me, and I have no patience for it anymore. Another guy I met sent me a lewd text and I responded with, "Errrr. Awkward?" He was really embarrassed, apologized profusely. I ignored it. Finally, he strapped a set on and CALLED me on the phone. I answered after the second voicemail. I agreed to have dinner with him, he took me to a gorgeous restaurant, we had lobster, I was lovely, he was fun and maybe I'll see him again.

Moral of the story? Follow the advice here. Don't wait til your 50 to figure it out!

Anonymous said...

update: @Anonymous Apr 26, 11:09 PM,
"My heart is heavy and my judgement on things a bit cloudy and i need some sound advise, and one of your advises worked before so i am hoping you can help once again. what should i do?"

Don't do anything dear, leave things be for right now. You don't want to come across as desperate, clingy or too emotional, and you've already apologized. So everything you can do, you've already done at the moment.

So we've since patched things up after that, and things went back to normal, I even took him to meet my friends for a card game, and at one point when he got a bit drunk he told me he likes me but i asked him what, he said something else. My concern though was he doesn't contact me on the weekdays to check on me, or send just a simple hello, he'd contact me on friday or sometimes thursday to see what I am doing and my friends are getting concerned that i am just a weekend girl. and i think last week was the last blow, coz i didnt hear from him at all until i messaged him on saturday and he didnt respond until 5 hours later, and he eventually told me that he had a big night the night before and i told him i was going out and he told me to have fun. the following morning, i decided to end it. i sent him this message... my dear ____ I think by now you know that I care about you... I have very much enjoyed our time together, but as amazing as you are, my needs are not getting met. I get the sense that we're not on the same page and I am getting attached. I don't want to be your weekend girl, or to any man for that matter. I need a man who is looking for a relationship and you don't seem to be that guy, so I'm calling this off... No hard feelings. I want to wish you in finding the woman of your dreams. I'm going to find that guy :-) Good luck to us. Take care of yourself.

my friends didnt want me to send this text message coz they prefer i say this to him person and another friend said not to do it coz i am blind sighting him, but i didnt even know if he still wanted to see me. and i guess i'm scared what his reaction will be. he has not responded to the message, so i am guessing I made the right move, but it still hurts a lot. i thought that he cared a lil bit but seems not.

Anonymous said...

Hi Aphrodite!I love your articles- very reassuring and honest.You tend to get straight to the point with a choice of caring words which shows you are generally interested in seeing your readers happy.

My experience with a insecure man started almost a year ago(began July 2014). Attractive 24 year old Aries man (I'm a 25 year old Libra woman) who watched me from afar for months. Once he finally got my number and we actually decided to hang out, he was charming and cool. We liked the same music and he suddenly became very familiar. Our humor was the same and the chemistry was magnetic. We shared so much time with each other and stayed on the phone for hours(even while at work!).We spent my birthday in NYC, where I also meet his favorite cousin and his gifts were surprising and thoughtful.We had a blast and it was unfortgettable. We were in a serious relationship for months,until I noticed a change in attitude around Thanksgiving. We were at his house (I had already meet his whole family prior) and he just had a different vibe about him. I asked if there was anything he wanted to talk about and he said "no". I asked if he was sure and he again replied "no". I let it go for about another month until he started becoming more distant than before. Normally, I would be over at his house(his grandmother's basement) everyday(when my daughter is with her dad) but he started wanting to have "time to himself"more and more.Around Christmas, it got to a point where I would only see him maybe twice out of a week. I asked him again if he was seeing anyone else and/or if he was unhappy and he again replied with "no-you need to relax". He kept saying that me asking these questions were starting issues that didn't exist. I went out and got him a thoughtful gift and I received nothing from him.He said it was because his check was short and "he didn't have enough money after getting his mother's gift".WOW. I kept reminding him that its the thought that matters but still nothing. I stuck by him accepting that maybe he was"just broke"and that gifts didn't matter. He still came over to my house to meet my father and more of my family on Christmas. So after a couple more months of inconsistency, I called him out on his behavior and treated to leave if he didn't fix the issue. He responded coldly and even disappeared for a couple days to "get his thoughts together". I texted him after 3 days to meet with me and he agrees. We go a to a restaurant and while having dinner he apologizes for his behavior and try to get me to "understand that he's been hurt before"(7 year toxic relationship) and that "I should be patient with him".
He goes back to normal and then Valentine's Day comes. He acts rather odd the day before as I wanted to see him but he insisted that he had to work late but promises that we will do something special on V-Day. We go out on V-day together with my 3 year old daughter to the movies and then he have a romantic night downtown with an overnight stay at a nice hotel. We had an amazing night of passionate sex and a life-changing pillow talk moment. We discussed the future and how "he knows I''m the woman for him". Things instantly went back to being the way it was from the beginning until I started to stressed out due to job issues. Initially, he listened and was attentive to my rants.Over a course of weeks, he became distant again and I started noticing him packing sweats and his PS4 into a book bag which would stay in his backseat. I asked him about this but he insisted that he was carrying over to his friends house after work being that he hates staying in his work clothes. But I was not buying it.I instantly knew what was going on and I kept it in the back of my head.

Anonymous said...

This continued to happen until April 6th(the Monday before his birthday). After having a great time on that Sunday(I took him to see his favorite rapper), he told me he loved me and he wasn't going to hide this anymore. Of course he was drunk, but I was still happy to hear him actually say it. I still couldn't fully believe him due to his previous behavior. So I just listened to him tell me about how he's "been feeling all this time and was afraid to tell me". No more than 12 hours later, I get a message from a girl on Facebook questioning me about a "mutual friend" we have. She wanted to confirm that we have been seeing the same man since December(until the week before his birthday), and I instantly broke down. I confronted him and he admitted that he "f*cked up" , that "we can work this out" and "she was just a fling". I couldn't believe ANYTHING even after he told he me LOVED me! He immediately told her that he was in love with me and was done with what they had.She even threatened to get him fired from his job! I went on to ignore him for a couple days until his birthday.By this time I had already quit my job and had nothing else to do. He somehow got me to hang out with him(felt bad because he has no available friends to really go out with) but I made it clear that I would not see him anymore afterwards. It hurt me to say this because I love him but I new it was best. A couple weeks later, we reconcile and even discussed going to a therapist for couples counseling(which we never made it around too). We started getting close again and him mom was happy to see us together again but something still didn't sit right when I noticed him becoming Facebook friends with an "old hook up" from years ago. They had been having sex with no attachments for 3 years before I came into the picture and she was also his rebound after his 7 relationship. She started calling him and texting him again and before I know it the *predictable* happens. We were planning to do something fun on Memorial Sunday with my daughter, but he calls that morning to say "he has to make a stop before grabbing us". He said that his "old hook up" needed him to take her to get a rental car. Of course! Knowing the kind of woman she was(cleavage revealing, man stealing-attention whore), I wasn't ok with it and I cancelled our trip. He went missing a majority of the day and insisted that the reason he hadn't returned my calls or texts was because he had been at the "skate park". None of his friends saw him there and I later found out he had lied and had been “chillin” with "the old hookup". We he finally called after i threatened to go to his house and get my stuff he breaks up with me while saying that he was “tired of the arguing”,”tired of being incriminated for doing nothing” and “was over trying to work things out”. I tried to make him understand that if he wanted to work things out it meant staying IN the relationship but apparently we were on two different pages. HE ends the convo saying in a sad tone “ He DOES love me and that this was hard for him to do and that he was going to call me back”. Haven’t heard from him since.
This lesson in “Insecure Men” has taught me alot about my value. I had only been “a victim” allowing him to influence how I felt about him by taking me on “romantic dates” and passionate sex nights. Up until I wrote this, I had been wanting him back but I’m realizing that this isn't how a woman should be treated.No longer naive about “insecure men”. I need a man who knows what he has and wouldn't think twice about it.

As sad as this is, I knew the potential he had to be the man I THOUGHT he was. Am I wrong for wanting him to get it together and relive what we had before? Or was this was just a facade to keep me going?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous May 27, 8:51 PM,
"I knew the potential he had to be the man I THOUGHT he was. Am I wrong for wanting him to get it together and relive what we had before?"

It's not that it's wrong, it's that it's somewhat dangerous. And the reason it's dangerous to think like that is because what you had before - was not what it appeared to be. In otherwords, what you thought you had or what you thought he was, just simply wasn't the case. In a sense, it wasn't real, it was an illusion. And holding onto the illusion instead of accepting what's real can keep you locked in a situation that isn't what's best for you and isn't what makes you happy.

It appears the reality here is that this man simply isn't ready for a committed relationship. He lied to you, he lied to the first other woman, and who knows what he's told the second other woman, the "hookup" from his past. He's restless, he's careless with the feelings of others, he's unable to be honest, he plays emotionally manipulative games with words instead and he appears selfish because it's clear he's not being honest so that he can maintain all of these situations for himself, instead of thinking about the feelings of the others involved.

That's not a man who's ready for a commitment, and the fact that he can't be trusted is not to be overlooked. He's no Prince Charming, he's using women, disregarding their feelings, stringing them along and then when he gets caught he manipulates and tries to make you think you're crazy and that you're too intense and you need to cut him some slack. . .instead of him just being honest and admitting he's not ready for a commitment with any one of you.

If I were you, I'd place him squarely in my past and I'd never look back. That old saying "fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice, shame on me" somewhat applies here in that. . .he burned you once and that was his fault. But if you know this and you take him back and he burns you again, regretfully there will be no one to blame but yourself for that decision to put yourself back into those circumstances by ignoring the truth and instead hanging onto the illusion and walking right into getting burned and hurt again ya' know?

He had his first chance and along came the first other woman. Then he was granted his second chance and along came the hookup from his past. Don't give him a third chance to strike out because if you do, there's a very high likelihood that you'll be hurt. Chalk it up to a lesson learned instead and spend your time and energy with a man that wants what you want, instead of wasting it on third and fourth chances with a man who doesn't deserve them.

loretta said...

@Anonymous w/cheating boyfriend. God, that story made me sick. Walk away. I know it's hard. It's easier when you are older. But, think of your little kid, and how your emotional state will affect that little girl. I have 3 daughters, and I know when I was younger and dated a bad guy, they were affected by it a lot. They are still ticked off at me 20 years later! If nothing else, gain strength from your need to protect her. Give her the best example of you.

Meantime, my DM (the one I went to the ballgame with) has not surfaced except one text on Memorial Day that I ignored. It's baffling. I really thought we hit it off. My hairdresser told me she thinks he has a live-in girlfriend or some shady situation at home, and it made me think - hmmm. I only ever TALK to him when he's on the road in his car, or in a hotel room out of town for work. Interesting. It would explain why he only texts me casually, and does not call me at night, or much at all.

Casual Guy (sailor guy, collaborator) and I had to spend 48 hours together on a sailboat on the lake, and it was rough going at first. I almost got seasick. I rallied back and was useful for the better part of the sail. We didn't get any writing done, too many things to do on the boat. When we finally arrived at our destination, I hurried up and packed all my stuff to get out of there, and he told me not to rush out. I expected him to be sick of me by then - this is a guy who needs a lot of alone time, and he started drinking. He asked me to stay and get the other little motor boat to the dock. He motored it back w/ me, I tied it off, and when he stepped out of the boat (after the booze hit), he almost fell in the lake. I grabbed him under his arm and rescued him from falling in the water. He makes me a little nervous. I'm like a mama bear, though. Instincts still sharp!

He texted me after I left, kept thanking me for my help, and telling me what he was doing. He was vaguely aware that I had a date that night I cancelled because we were so late in getting in. He acts like he's checking up on me (he's so insecure), and I just whistle, lalalala.... I had a date with a new guy who was really wrong for me. It went nicely, but no thanks. After reading all these stories, I am starting to act like a man in this situation - instead of texting or calling this guy I don't want to see again and saying, "Thanks for the nice date, but we don't match," I'm going to do the guy thing - DISAPPEAR. They do it all the time. Why should I bother sending a "Dear John" text? Anytime I do that, I get an argument.

I do believe that seeing Casual Guy as a friend only has completely changed the dynamic between us. He's much nicer to me, he's more relaxed, I'm not afraid to call him a d*ck when he's being one, I shrug off his innuendos, I toy with him. It's a lot more fun. Will he wake up and smell the coffee? Maybe. Maybe not. If he does, it may be too late.

Anonymous said...

My ex and I are expecting a baby boy in one week. He dumped me when I found out I was pregnant. Then about 2 months later, wanted to try and work things out with me. .but after about a month, I realized we weren't really working on our relationship, and any time I invited him to any of my prenatal appts..he'd be too busy at work and never seemed comfortable talking about baby plans..when I questioned what we were actually doing, he began distancing from me. I wouldn't hear from him for 2 days at a time, then a real brief check in text. .then distance again. The topper was when his entire family showed up at my work (I'm a bartender) after a wedding and while they were all sweet to me. ..he was distant again. I had to play it off like everything was ok to his family. But I felt very rejected. About a week after that, I must told him is take care of everything. .that be hasn't been involved since the beginning. He gave me the silent treatment for that, and I was ok with it. I felt played. His sister (who I barely know) tried justifying him to me. ..that his anxiety has him all freaked out and I should work on being really good friends with him. I told her I'd work on moving on for now. ..she became very upset with me. She said she hoped I didn't mean that. .that I just need to be patient and understanding. I felt like she wanted me to just sit in limbo while be figured out what he really wanted. The silence between he and I continued for another month.. I recently found out that he secretly met with my mother during the silent time, and spent five minutes trying to kind of blame/bash me to her. He started the conversation by saying that he knew I wanted to be with him, that he just didn't know what he wanted. .when my mother told him I was working on moving on, he seemed irritated and began trying to bash me with random comments. .my mother of course left. Since then we have attempted to talk and then it turns ugly coming from his side. .. He lashes out and says awful things. And then a few weeks later attempts to contact me again completely nice, like a differentry person. .but it cycles back to meanness. . I feel he may be a narcissit. Obviously I'm not one to diagnose that. But, I wonder what your thoughts are on what I've shared, and how can I deal with Co parenting with someone who seems do angry. It's also come to my attention that he may assume that I've started dating while pregnant... which I haven't. But he recently lashed out at an old friend of mine who is a guy, and practically threatened him. Idk really what I'm dealing with anymore. ..I'm sad that there is so much animosity now. I'm trying to just focus on getting ready to deliver my baby, and just hoping things can cool down after. This has been a rough pregnancy..and I just wish he could communicate with me rather than bash and blame me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. -Molly

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Before venturing into anything else here, let me just say - YOU and your BABY are what's important here. Babying a grown man who is unable to cope and take responsibility for his actions is not important.

"His sister (who I barely know) tried justifying him to me. ..that his anxiety has him all freaked out and I should work on being really good friends with him. I told her I'd work on moving on for now. ..she became very upset with me. She said she hoped I didn't mean that. .that I just need to be patient and understanding. I felt like she wanted me to just sit in limbo while be figured out what he really wanted."

Now this is just my gut speaking here based on what you've told me, but I suspect that this man has more than one "enabler" so to speak around him. And while I get that his sister feels patience and understanding for him are in order, she also needs to realize that that's her nephew you're carrying. . .and right now, that's what's important. To be honest, if I had a brother behaving like this, I would not be giving a "talking to" to the mother of his child. I would be giving that talk to my brother.

I suspect he's got people around him that, instead of talking straight with him and encouraging him to man up and get ready to become a father, they somewhat enable his immature behavior and make excuses for him instead. He doesn't need patience and understanding, he need to take accountability for the life he's about to welcome into this world. He doesn't need coddled, his new baby will need that. He's had months to process this, the baby is due in a week, and he should've accepted this by now. But if you have people around you that aren't talking about that with you and instead, they're going to the mother of your child and asking her to, in essence, to "baby" you instead. . .then he feels justified to continue behaving this way. And that is where they may be enabling him to continue acting this way, which then perpetuates his anger because he feels supported in those emotions.

"he secretly met with my mother during the silent time, and spent five minutes trying to kind of blame/bash me to her. He started the conversation by saying that he knew I wanted to be with him, that he just didn't know what he wanted. .when my mother told him I was working on moving on, he seemed irritated and began trying to bash me with random comments. .my mother of course left."

And it appears that he's also gone to YOUR family for the very same type of enabling support and validation. Thank goodness your mother was wise enough to see through it and not entertain that from him.

"how can I deal with co parenting with someone who seems so angry"

Well, this is the hard part, and what I'm about to say, some may not agree with. But here's the deal. Again, this baby is what's important. And in my opinion, all you need to worry about right now is parenting the baby yourself. If he's angry, lashing out and acting like a child himself because he refuses to take responsibility for his actions and instead wants everyone's sympathy. . .you cannot afford to trouble yourself with that. That is not your problem to solve, and it's not your "stuff" to work through. And you cannot afford to be distracted by it, giving him the attention that your new baby deserves instead.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

So if he is unable to cope and experiences anger, etc. regarding becoming a parent. . .if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd keep my eye on the prize here - your new baby. I'd file for child support immediately because your baby deserves the best that both parents can provide, and then I'd get visitation in place. . .and once those 2 things take place, I'd relax and enjoy being a new mom. I wouldn't worry about him working out his issues here, and I wouldn't worry about how to co-parent with him right now. I'd worry about being the best mom I can be and I'd leave him to work out his end of that on his own for right now.

Once the baby is born, and he's got a new son, and it's no longer all about him - hopefully he'll grow and mature a bit and things will eventually level out to a peaceful routine and he'll experience joy from this.

He strikes me as a man that's "needy" of lots of attention, seeking it out from both families and attempting to keep the focus on himself by attempting to garner everyone's sympathy. He strikes me as a child that's fighting to keep the spotlight. But once that baby is born, like it or not, that is all going to be over for him and he's going to be forced to accept responsibility and make it about the baby and not himself. This will most likely be difficult for him at first, and there will probably be lots of childish acting out. And my suggestion to you is to ignore that from him, do not engage him in battle on subjects that are about himself, and do not entertain any of this "whoa is me" nonsense from him as his family has done. Do not give weight or validation to any of those arguments from him. Stay focused on what's important - the baby. And when he starts to act like that around you and the baby, ask him to please leave. Remove yourself and the baby from that environment and leave him to work out his own stuff himself. For right now, you do your half and don't worry about him doing his. Expect the child support for right now and not much else from him (because he's probably not going to pull through for you and the baby at first).

And then like I said, once he's forced to focus on the baby instead of himself, and he sees the joy this child has brought into the world and into his family and yours. . .with any luck, after a few months, he'll start to slowly accept his new role in life and then at that time it's much more likely that you guys can come together as parents and things will hopefully become a bit easier.

But for right now, you don't have time to focus on this nonsense from him, so stay focused on the baby and yourself instead until the time arrives in which he's worked some of this out for himself. Your child deserves your attention, so don't let him and his childish antics distract you from what's really important and don't worry about co-parenting with him immediately at this time because it appears he's not ready to parent at all at this moment.

Anonymous said...

LD relationship with BF for 8 months. We see each other once a month. He regularly said he loved me, sent flower on Valentine Day and the whole nine yards of romantic gestures. I have had doubts about his sincerity and honesty for awhile now. He is vague, quite secretive and it is like pulling teeth getting him to open up at times.

Was looking at the CL ads lately and a couple looked like they might be his. I answered two of them incognito where he was offering to give free body rubs. When I would ask his name in those ads he always gave me another name like Jack or Bob. I gave up on answering his ads. I am certain it was him and he was hiding his true identity. All of his ads were just offering massages and body rubs for women. He is not a licensed massage therapist by the way.

I placed 3 of my own ads online to see if he would answer them. In particular, I mentioned wanting massages/body rubs in hopes he would answer. He answered all 3 and his email address showed so I knew it was him. I pretended to be someone else. Got to asking him questions. For each ad of mine he answered, he would tell me different stories – he’s married, another he is divorced and the 3rd one he is living common law. I know for a fact he is actually divorced! He also lied saying the last time he had sex for over a year ago. He said this is because his common law partner has health issues and she can’t have sex. Horse pucky!!. We had sex last month! He was really trying to get me to agree to one of his sensual body rubs, going on about how I could set the ground rules, sex would only happen if both want it. Tried to sound like a gentleman about it.

The man is a compulsive lier. So I reveal who I really am on my third ad and ask for an explanation. All he said was “not bad, Susan, you’re not fooling anyone, knew it was you from the start. Have a good life".. Don’t think he knew who I was until I revealed my name, so that was another lie on top of another.

We have broken up two times prior but I have always missed him so I would call and we got back together. This time it looks like the end. Mirror, I am feeling bad. It was sneaky and under handed on my part to do this so I feel guilty. Was I wrong, would you consider it abusive behaviour on my part? But I do not think I would have found out his true character without playing detective.

Do not think I will ever hear from him again. He probably hates me for being so covert. Can you comment? I am a kind hearted person and do not as a rule do this sort of thing.


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Mirror, I am feeling bad. It was sneaky and under handed on my part to do this so I feel guilty"

Rubbish - YOU have absolutely NOTHING to feel guilty about - at all. Do not beat yourself up over some jerk who's a terrible man to begin with.

"Was I wrong, would you consider it abusive behaviour on my part?"

NO - and no. But you know what IS abusive? Lying to people so that you can use them sexually - which is what HE has done, NOT you.

"Do not think I will ever hear from him again. He probably hates me for being so covert."

With any luck - all of that will be true. You should hope and pray that you never hear from this creep of a man ever again. And if he hates you, you should be thrilled about that too because it'll guarantee that he'll stay far, far away from you. . .and NEVER be able to lie to you and use you ever again.

This man is a horrible person who's out there lying in an effort to be able to use others for his own sexual gratification, which is why he is ". . .vague, quite secretive and it is like pulling teeth getting him to open up at times." He's got secrets. LOTS of them. And that's why he's tight-lipped. Because he knows if he opens up, his secrets will come spilling out. He's not only lying to you, he's lying in his CL ads as well. He's telling lies all over the place in an attempt to FOOL people.

That's not a nice person and that's certainly not a person to be beating yourself up over or worrying about. As a matter of fact, you should be pretty damn proud of yourself for sussing him out the way you did and beating him at his own game. So instead of feeling bad about some creep and beating yourself up over it, I'd suggest you give yourself a bit pat on the back for a job well done - and enjoy an evening out with your girlfriends instead :-)

Anonymous said...

So MOA... you give some wonderful advice on this site. I have read countless of messages/your comments left. Superb!

Anywho, my boyfried of 4 years decided that he wants to go out of the country or just out of town and not tell me. That to me is some Ass hole stuff!!!! We live together and have a very open style of talking to each other. So I thought Now I feel like he is or may be hiding something. I told him that I need to know of his whereabout, especially if he's planning to leave the country incase his parents contact me asking of him. What do I tell them??? Right!!! What if I did that to him??? He would be piss, right??? Do you think I am being controlling here or scared?

So can you give me any pointers on how to handle this situation? What do I say? I know I wouldn't do that to him. Granted I know we can have vacations without each other like with our closes friends, but this right here. I think its crock of BULL... that you treat others how you want to be treat is not right!!! Very frustrated!!!

Thanks in advance for your response.

loretta said...

Seriously creepy (@anonymous above with CL ad creep). But also hilarious. I found out my ex husband had all sorts of dating profiles on adult friendfinder and such. He also had a secret life. I was lucky that I found it out very early in the marriage and kicked him out of my house and my life. That was 14 years ago. I never saw things the same way again, and learned a lot about the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He was a textbook malignant narcissist. They cannot change and cannot love. The CL guy above is another perfect example. Just scrub your brain out with bleach and move on.

Update on my DM - he finally called after another week of nothing and I answered. I almost didn't answer the phone, but what the heck. I was extremely cool, perhaps even a tad frosty. He said, "You probably thought I dropped off the face of the earth," and I said, 'No. I wasn't really worried about it." Then he told me he had to go out of town for another week, that he had been out of town this past weekend, blah blah. I said, that's nice, and then told him about my sail with Casual Guy. Two days later, he sent me one of those chain emails that talks about politics, mostly right wing propaganda, and I responded to it with less than friendly words. He got really angry that I was dismissive of it, and said he had been really interested in me, but no more. I replied, "Really? You sure didn't act like it." And then enumerated all the things men do when they ARE interested in you.

I'm with the commenter above who says we women need to call them out on this crap. Don't accept it, and when they act all innocent and think something is wrong with you because you won't chase them or sit around waiting for them, you cooly tell them, "Dude, you were not on my radar."

Meanwhile, Casual Guy cut our writing meeting short last week to meet with some new girl he is starting to see. His last rebound/retread did not work out. This one is a retread, too. I wasn't miffed that he was dating, but rather that he abruptly ended our meeting when we were behind schedule. At first, I just got up and left, but then I called him a little while later and told him he was treating me like an ex girlfriend and not a colleague/partner. MoA warned me about being friends with him. I let him have it. He apologized, blah blah, but now he's on his best behavior again. I am in a feisty mood after reading these stories.

Anonymous said...

My story: I started going for coffee with one colleague from work. I knew he was looking for a relationship, I just wanted to make sure he wanted me for myself and not because he was alone. I initiated a little bit and I was very responsive. Still, he would suggest me he wanted more, but never really invited me outside work, he was waiting for me to initiate and I wasn`t comfortable with that. I am sure we were both attracted to each other.

But...he`s very insecure and I guess he lost attraction when a common friend ( a girl!!!) told him that if a girl doesn`t call him etc., then it means she`s not interested. I was interested, but I didn`t want to hunt him....

Long story short, he recently started dating a girl, but this girl is very jealous, possessive and controlling (his words, as she`s monitoring him). Therefore, he`s avoiding me although we did have interesting/pleasant conversations. He has a history of relationship with strong women that would dominate him etc. He doesn`t have experience with people and dating (he`s very submissive) and he doesn`t know himself very well.

My question is....should I have been more aggressive in showing him I was interested? Although I did accept all his invitations for coffee, asked questions about him etc. What `scared` me so to say was that I liked him enough to date him, but I would have liked to get to know him better before becoming boyfriend/girlfriend. Whereas he was searching for a relationship with somebody, anybody apparently.
I am not comfortable with making such a quick decision as to entering a relationship for fear he would pick somebody else. Could you please give me your opinion on this? Have I done something wrong? I am ok, I didn`t have time to become emotionally involved etc, still I`m wondering how can they ditch you like that.

Thank you very much for your help!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Thu, Jun 4, 3:56 PM,
"Do you think I am being controlling here or scared?"

Not at all. If he's your boyfriend and you two have made a commitment to one another, then part of honoring that commitment includes showing you respect and communicating clearly with you.

And if he has a problem doing that or answering to you or following through with his commitment to you, then he has no business being in a relationship with you, or expecting a commitment back from YOU.

What he's doing is disrespectful. His actions are that of a single man, when he's actually a man who's entered into a committed relationship and living situation.

Problem is, talking about this right now probably won't do an ounce of good. And while "tit for tat" isn't wise either, there IS some benefit by you doing the same to him. Not for revenge or tit for tat purposes - but to show through YOUR ACTIONS that HIS ACTIONS are out of line.

Meaning, if he follows through and does this - the only way he's going to know how disrespectful it is and how you feel about it. . .is if he experiences the SAME ACTIONS from YOU. Because words will just float right over his head about this. Unless he feels what you're feeling right now, chances are he'll be a bit arrogant and egotistical about the matter, playing it as if you're just "crazy" or "over-reacting" and he'll probably take to manipulating like that.

Just some food for thought - what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

And if it were me, well. . .I'm not telling you to do this but I've experienced this before myself. And when he returned home to MY house where he lived. . .he was asked to leave. And he did - and it was the best thing I ever did for myself because the writing on the wall showed he lacked respect for me and that if I stuck around and hung in there with him, I was going to get hurt. He'd continue doing it, he'd only end up doing it even more if he got away with it and before you know it. . .there would've been many sleepless nights.

So I cut him off at the pass - and instead, I kicked him out on his ass LOL ;-)

And I'm glad I did cause as it turned out, in my case (doesn't mean yours is the same though), he was cheating :-(

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"a common friend ( a girl!!!) told him that if a girl doesn`t call him etc., then it means she`s not interested."

Wow. I hate to say this but. . .that girl is clueless. And it just goes to show you how messed up modern day dating is. That poor girl thinks Mother Nature gave HER the masculine role (leader, initiator) and issued men the feminine role (submissive).

It's just another example of sexually aggressive women, which by the way, are rather unique to the United States. I mean sure there are a few other countries where it's socially acceptable for women to be sexually aggressive but generally speaking, many other countries think that American women are incredibly aggressive and rather unique in that respect (but not in a good way).

"He has a history of relationship with strong women that would dominate him"

LOL, yea, no kidding - imagine that. Of course this is the case with him because again, in relationships there's a yin and yang of energy exchange - masculine and feminine. The two are needed to balance each other out.

So when a guy plays the feminine submissive role, naturally, all he's going to attract back to himself are masculine, aggressive, over-bearing, domineering, controlling women.

"should I have been more aggressive in showing him I was interested?"

If you think that being the "dude" in the relationship would be okay with you and make you happy, then yea that'd work. But if you'd rather have a masculine man at your side that takes the lead and treats you like a lady - then no, that'd be a mistake.

"he was searching for a relationship with somebody, anybody apparently"

That's very common with insecure individuals - men and women alike. When someone is very insecure, anyone will do.

"I`m wondering how can they ditch you like that."

Well, have you read this article LOL? Dating people who are insecure is NO day at the beach and their behavior is incredibly unpredictable as a result of their inner turmoil with themselves. I am of the opinion that dating really insecure individuals is very exhausting and testing on your emotions, and generally not worth it. . .unless YOU want to do all the heavy lifting, solve all the problems, take the lead all the time, struggle to keep them emotionally balanced and stable and do ALL the work to keep the relationship afloat.

loretta said...

Perfect real-life example of what is taught on this website (and what I wish I knew 20 years ago). Casual Guy and I had a writing meeting last night and at around 11 pm, he started getting texts from the girl he is currently seeing, the one he cut our meeting short for last week. I didn't comment on it at first, but I could see it was from the same girl over and over. She was being what is called a "text gnat." (love that! Ha!) I just watched his reaction. He finally, after about the 4th text, texted her back. I could tell from his facial expression that he was really getting annoyed by it.

I said, "Do you need to respond to this? I can do something else for a little while." He said, "No, but I will." Then he texted again, turned off the ringer, and put the phone aside. We went back to work. Sure enough, buzz, buzz, buzz, the phone buzzed on vibe and she was texting. He ignored it. Then she called him. He ignored it. She texted him a few more times, called a couple more times, he ignored it.

I looked at him, laughed a little and said, "Does she know this is writing night?" He said yes. I said, "Does she respect that this is writing night?" And he said not to disparage her so quickly. I just shrugged and said, you are not amused by it. You seem annoyed. He said things were not going well, and that it had a short shelf life. (Presumably the relationship.) I said that the people that were in my life know my writing nights are valuable and don't bug me. The only texts I get are from my kids. I said it was just a matter of respecting our time and our commitments and not needing attention all the time. He didn't defend her, but I sort of was snarky about it. Remember, this is a guy I dated 10 months and who wanted his freedom from the relationship. I gave it to him, but I see him twice a week for dedicated work, and he is not doing so well in the dating department. Careful what you wish for.

He's not the greatest at paying attention to people, but this girl is blowing it big time by being a pest. She will not last long. In fact, after I left, he texted me for a couple hours, and drove 50 miles to his boat at 2 AM. It was strange that he left at that hour, but I suspect it was to get away from HER!

This is an insecure guy who has gone back to a familiar person who is obviously a drama queen, and he hates drama, he hates being pestered, he needs a lot of space, he's not very attentive, and the only reason he is very good to me most of the time is because I pose no threat to him any more. I don't have any romantic expectations, I brush him off, I act like an amused spectator, and whenever I bring up my dates, he changes the subject. He's confused, but I'm not. So I took all my power back and it feels good.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And isn't it ironic:

"This is an insecure guy who has gone back to a familiar person who is obviously a drama queen"

An insecure guy - attracts an insecure girl right back to himself LOL. "Like attracts like" - birds of a feather flock together. And not only is she insecure, she's attempting to dominate the situation, and him. He's insecure and kind of taking the submissive role, and what's he's ended up with because of that is a girl who is equally insecure and is now reaching for the dominant role, and he's feeling overwhelmed by it. So much so that he has to escape it at 2 in the morning.

Meanwhile - while he's fleeing from the insecure girl who is desperate for his attention, he's giving that attention to the secure girl who is carefree LOL - "after I left, he texted me for a couple hours."

You're right. He is confused and he doesn't even know what he needs or understand the role he's actually playing in his own dating life that's perpetuating the exact situation he claims NOT to want.

"he said not to disparage her so quickly"

Translation: "I know, I know - but please don't rub this in my face." LOL ;-)

loretta said...


Hilarious. You are right. So far, since I gave him the choice back in April to date others or date me exclusively, and he chose to date others (and I friend zoned him), he has had two re-treads. The first one was a woman he was "friends" with for a decade, who was on the rebound from a bad relationship, and who owns a couple of beauty salons. The night I broke up with him in April was the night she was calling and texting him, he was ignoring her, and she showed up unannounced at his house at 8 PM. Probably to check out what he was doing (and maybe to check me out. LOL). She waltzed in, he told her it was "movie writing night" and she asked "Where is the movie board?" (Indicating she knew about it.) Then she looked at him and scolded her for calling her at 1 AM. (Indicating to me he was drunk dialing or texting her. Probably texting.) Then she reminded him that he was coming over on Sunday (Easter Sunday), indicating to me that he was spending a holiday with her. Talk about taking the lead! Talk about aggressive! It was at once amusing and disconcerting. That night, I gave him his walking papers.

Fast forward a few weeks later, she's out of the picture. He claims it was because she had no time to see him, but I think he became very uncomfortable with such a demanding and aggressive pursuit of him. So, he hooks up with another familiar face, who is going through a personal crisis (lost her job) and runs to her side while cutting our meeting short. He was also drinking heavily that night and I doubt much could be accomplished at 11 pm when he finally got around to seeing her. He said something quite cruel to me that night, and I called him out on it. He apologized both then and again when we worked together on Friday night. That was when Re-Tread #2 started texting and calling like a crazy person and he escaped via the boat in the middle of the night.

I would call this (like I would call his drinking) a form of insanity - doing the same things and expecting different results. But instead of always focusing on what he is doing (it's kind of like watching "Animal Planet" of the dating and relationship jungle), I have to see what I'm learning about myself in this situation. If I can grow and learn and be a better person because of how I change what I do, how I react, and maintain my serenity and cool, I feel stronger. I will attract healthier relationships with men. Or so I hope. haha

MAV said...

Hello Mirror.

This is Anonymous with clever and crafty "ex". I have some updates but wanted to collect my thoughts before writing about them.

In the meantime, I came across this article and was wondering what your thoughts are. The writer's message is not different from yours, I think.


Anonymous said...

Ok Mirror...get this.
A mutual friend suggested this guy to me on FB as a friend. I became friends with him (thinking to set him up with one of my girlfriends). Anyway...7 months go by and we never talked at all. Then 5 days ago...he messages me and introduces himself and says he's heard all sorts of great things about me, etc. I was going through a family emergency at the time and was flattered but not really available that week. He asked me to dinner! Or maybe just chat on the phone. I said it would be nice to meet him and that we could talk if he wanted ;) I was being kind of flirty...I THOUGHT! But I didn't give him me number because I thought he would answer my message and ask for it. ANYWAY...NOTHING! He hasn't answered in 2 days. It is super rude it think...especially when I explained I was having a family situation as an excuse for not being able to go out. And like you say in other blogs...it is important to build a phone relationship before going out. Should I have given him my number, even though he didn't give me his AND not "make him ask for my number"???!!! Don't get it. These men are all babies. Was I wrong or is he just insecure and egotistical? He is very successful and probably has women jumping at the chance to get a date with him. Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous, Tue, Jun 9, 10:44 PM,
"Was I wrong or is he just insecure and egotistical?"

Well before I even read the line that follows your statement above, I thought to myself that this guy is used to "easy." Meaning, he probably uses Facebook as a dating site, and he's probably used to making one contact - and then not having to lift a finger afterwards because the women probably kick it into high gear and pursue him from that point on.

And chances are, he's a bit of a game player because of this. And it's also possible that the reason he's not responding is because he's attempting to bring your insecurities to the surface - so YOU will chase HIM. Don't do it, it's a trap LOL.

You agreed to speak with him and also signaled that you'd be willing to eventually meet him as well. That's more than enough of a green light, and it'd have been no problem for him to respond by saying, "Excellent, gimmie' your number and I'll call you later and then maybe we can discuss grabbing a bite to eat or something."

But he didn't do that. He chose not to do that. He chose not to follow through - so that's his loss, not yours. He's the one that contacted you and initiated this. If that's the only action he ever intends to take, then oh well.

Besides, wouldn't surprise me if he resurfaces at some point eventually (maybe when his other options run dry LOL). I have nothing to base this on but my gut, but it wouldn't surprise me if he circles the Internet stirring things like this up with women. . .and then sitting back and waiting to see who gives chase.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror,

Hi Mirror,

My last "dating" situation has been frustrating because I have changed many of my behaviors and still ended up with the same result. I hope sharing can be helpful to your readers. I met this man in March and once he returned from a trip, he followed up with me for a first date as he said he would. His date invitation showed thoughtfulness and I was hopeful. However, the first red flag was that once I indicated I was in for the date, I never heard back from him until the morning of the date. At the time, it registered as "odd" for me, but since I didn't know him well I did not read into it to much. I also knew he was working full-time and pursuing an MBA so I was managing my expectations. We had a fun first date and then I did not hear from him for 10 days (to my credit, I did no pursuing during this time). His next text was weak - asking me how my weekend was - and I gave a mediocre reply. The next text came on Friday at 8 pm - asking me what I was doing that night - which was a big red flag. I didn't respond until the next morning to make it clear I wasn't going to jump at his invitation and made it clear I had been sitting home watching TV (i.e., I'd rather do that than be a back-up plan).

Over the next few weeks, we exchanged a few texts and tried to meet up with me declining anything last minute and then being on vacation. When I returned from vacation, I erred by agreeing to meet him last minute one Friday evening (and of course, as you know, sex was on his agenda). We had sex, and for the next week things started to actually improve. After we had sex, he expressed a desire to spend the morning together (which I declined as I had things to do) and I also turned down seeing him later that night. I counteroffered with plans for the following week. During that week, he began returning texts with more promptness and planned a Saturday night out in advance. When we out that evening, a large portion of it was spent getting to know each other. All in all, while I had reservations, I was feeling like it was something that could move forward. We also had sex that night, but when I woke up Sunday morning, I could feel the slightest of shift in him (detached? distancing?). I made a quick exit from his place with no drama and did not start to feel anxious until 2 days later. At that time, I took advice from a well-meaning *married* male friend who told me "not to play games" and to send him a text to say that I was just thinking of him, that I had fun on Saturday night and that I hoped he was having a good week. I should not have sent that text because I was feeling anxious about sending it -- and sure enough, it was ignored and I haven't heard from this guy since (it has been a month). For someone like me, a woman who has deep abandonment wounds, this has sent me reeling emotionally.

To my credit, I did not do anything in response to being ignored. No further texts, emails, etc...not a peep. I like to say, "I took it as a woman" even though it felt like bloody hell. I cannot say this man gave me a ton of red flags while in his presence the way other men have -- he wasn't making wild promises, he seemed interested in getting to know things about me, he was polite/chilvarous (which only makes his disappearance more frustrating), etc...

Anonymous said...

But these are the red flags I did see and I hope this is helpful for you and your readers: on our first date, he made an innocuous comment about sex that I filed under "odd". I can't remember what we were discussing -- it was something about dating -- and he said, "what, do you not like good sex?" and I found that odd because it seemed to be unrelated to what we were discussing and what I was saying. He also mentioned that he has been told "he is good in bed and that he is big". Which I also found odd for a man to be sharing. Now, I believe that he was trying to make me feel insecure and curious; and also that only someone who is insecure would say that. Fast-forward to when we had sex -- well, this man did not ejaculate -- and we had sex for *four* hours. Immediately after sex, he asked "did you like that?" and I realized that the reason why people tell him he is good is because he asks!!! Not because he is getting independent feedback. He did not ejaculate the second time we had sex either. My most educated belief is he projecting his issue onto me because I believe he questions whether or not HE likes sex, because he is not coming.

Tack onto this, the limited pieces I know about his prior relationships: a year long relationship with someone who he said he loved, but gave him a marriage ultamateum he declined. He said the relationship flt like "work" and no matter what he did/how much time he spent with her, he could not please his partner. One dating scenario that ended with a woman pulling a knife on him (within a month of knowing her) and another woman who yelled at him in public. All in all, between this and the ejaculation issue, I had a sense that he is very "withholding" in a relationship. As in, many he won't really give himself to a woman completely. (And ironically, this mirrors my own issue of not really giving myself to a man until I feel safe/secure -- like attracts like, eh?).

Even intellectually knowing this, doesn't stop the emotional pain I have felt over the damage to my self-esteem -- while I haven't chased him, it has triggered my insecurities. I don't know if this type of man ever returns; I am not sure if he is insecure, a player or a guy with a big ego. Ironically- I'd expect all those guys to pop up curious to know why I am not trying to get answers or lock him down! He could blame me for his sexual dysfunction, but given that he had *no* reaction to not coming, I can only conclude that that had happened to him before. (I'd like to think a male who routinely ejaculates would have been a little alarmed that all of a sudden his hydrualics were not working!)

I do know that I set my behavior with him from the beginning so he knows for sure that (1) I won't be initiating any contact with him and (2) that I won't be flipping out on him either -- of that, I am sure.

All I can say to your readers is if any man does you like this, let him go and maintain your dignity.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 10, 10:43 AM,
"I took advice from a well-meaning *married* male friend who told me "not to play games" and to send him a text to say that I was just thinking of him, that I had fun on Saturday night and that I hoped he was having a good week."

I have often said here that I know everyone's friends mean well. But seriously - don't listen to them LOL. If you do, chances are they'll have you hunting a man down constantly and looking like a desperate fool in no time. (Not that you did that here, just saying it happens a lot is all.)

And it's funny that your male friend told YOU not to play games (as if somehow maintaining your dignity and not chasing a man down is now considered game playing). . .yet, he said NOTHING about the disappearing/ignoring game this man was ALREADY playing with YOU.

As a man - he should've know that what he was suggesting you do was actually going to end up hurting you more. As a man, I'm quite sure he knows that when a guy disappears after sex. . .he's disrespecting the woman. So why then, accuse your friend, the woman who's being disrespected already, of "game playing" -- and then take it even a step further and actually suggest to her that she should then reach out to the man who is treating her poorly?

I don't like that. I know he's your friend, but he basically signaled that the problem was YOU - or at least that's the end result whether intentional or not. He basically signaled that YOU weren't "DOING" enough and that you should "DO" even more. WTF??? Why place all of the burden and blame on you because you didn't "do, do, do" enough? I don't get that at all. I know he probably meant well. . .but in the end, he did more damage than good and he convinced you to hand over your power to a man who is already treating you poorly. . .so that he can continue to do so to you? Not good.

I think your friend was thinking like a man there and not thinking like a friend and seeing it from your perspective - YOU were being treated POORLY, and YOU did nothing wrong, and YOU didn't need to "DO" anything else. So just know that in case you end up in this situation again - YOU did nothing wrong :-)

"on our first date, he made an innocuous comment about sex. . ."what, do you not like good sex?"

Well - that's actually NOT an innocuous comment - it's actually disrespectful to bring up the subject of sex on a first date, and it's a big "no-no" as far as formal dating goes.

NEVER bring up your exes - and NEVER talk sex on the first date - EVER.

"He also mentioned that he has been told "he is good in bed and that he is big"

WHOA - BIG red flag. And a comment that only a very insecure individual would feel the need to make. Going around telling strange women you have a big "member'??? As if a big pecker is going to make you drop to your knees as if you've never seen one before? I don't think so.

That's not impressive at all, and quite frankly, every man I've ever heard utter those stupid words has turned out to be an incredible disappointment in the sack LOL.

Right there, that comment right there combined with his other one, signaled he was viewing you as an sexual "object" and not a living, breathing human being that should be handled with care in a respectful manner :-(

I can assure you - GENTLEMEN do NOT speak to women like that.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"only someone who is insecure would say that"

Exactly. Just like how the fools who run around all the time saying "you can trust me" always end up screwing you over LOL.

"Fast-forward to when we had sex -- well, this man did not ejaculate -- and we had sex for *four* hours."

SEE! See what I mean? Every guy I've ever heard utter those stupid words has turned out to be a big disappointment.

"Immediately after sex, he asked "did you like that?" and I realized that the reason why people tell him he is good is because he asks!!!"

He's asking because he's insecure, he knows his performance is below par, and he's overcompensating for that by seeking validation from the woman that the opposite is true, so that he feels better about himself.

And women being women, most probably are not going to hurt him by telling him the truth. So they tell him what he wants to hear, even though they don't mean it, and then he runs around repeating their false statements.

"Even intellectually knowing this, doesn't stop the emotional pain I have felt over the damage to my self-esteem -- while I haven't chased him, it has triggered my insecurities."

Work through it as best you can. Acknowledge that there were issues here long before he met you. And that he is responsible for working out his own "stuff." It's not yours, so don't take it on as yours or as a reflection of you.

His behavior is NOT a reflection of YOU - it is a reflection of what's going on inside of HIM.

This man has very low self-esteem, which quite honestly could be the very thing that hampers his sexual performance (he's too worried about it and therefore, he renders himself senseless as a result). And he appears to be using women sexually as a therapy of sorts to attempt to work this out and to give himself a bit of an ego boost.

His issues run deep dear. I've dealt with men like this before and honestly, nothing you say or do can stop what's going on inside of them. They have to fight that battle on their own. And you have to not take their "stuff" on as YOUR own.

Again, his behavior is a reflection of what's going on inside of him - it is NOT a reflection of YOU. And next time a man is treating you poorly - try hard not to let a friend talk you into rewarding his ignorant treatment with a kind gesture in response ;-)

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your validation. I appreciate it. My thoughts:

1. I am in therapy (and have been) and I am working through my issues with a therapist. I did not initially tell her about the bedroom issue, but when I fessed up, she did say that was "significant".

2. I could not agree with you more re advice from well-meaning friends. Afterwards, I thought to myself, "if I was your daughter would you have advised that?" Probably not. I believe advice from friends over the years has actually compounded my initial problem -- instead of telling me something might be wrong with the guy, they have suggested I have been doing something wrong...which only reinforces my own negative self-esteem. So I hope your readers understand how damaging this advice can be.

3. After we slept together the second time, it was not clear that he was going to disappear. I only felt something "off". I was prepared to wait it out -- and even told my married friend I was going to wait until I heard from the guy again -- and that is when he told me "not to play games". I could not agree with you more -- I wasn't playing games! I was observing what this man was going to do next and had he disappeared, yes, I would have felt bad -- but I felt even worse by sending that one text that went ignored.

4. Do you think this man may pop up again? I am bracing myself for this possibility and I am not sure what to expect. We have mutual friends -- and the number of mutual friends is growing. It is very likely I will run into him. My guiding principle throughout this has been maintaining my dignity and giving him *nothing* to pin all of this on me. So I want to be very prepared for how to handle any contact (including face-to-face). My feeling is that I wish to be civil and not show how badly he hurt me, but not be overly nice either. In a subtle way I would like to indicate that I am aware I was disrespected and not interested in being overly cordial without an apology. One thing I do know about this man is that he knows right from wrong. He has apologized for delayed texts before, so I know that he knows he did wrong. That he cannot separate out his own issues from that is the problem. In short, I have seen him "do right", know that he has the capacity, and believed him to be better than this because I did see signs that he was. It reminds me of those men who know when they do wrong, but they are so wrapped up in themselves, they can't help themselves.

As a final thought -- to make you laugh-- I noticed that last weekend he added 9 girls on FB (some of them my friends)! Now, he has a lot going for him, but not enough that 9 women are friend requesting him. If there was ever another sign of insecurity - that sure was it!!!

Anonymous said...

Oops - and I also forgot - one last red flag for the readers. The first time we had sex, while not kinky, it was not vanilla (what I am use to initially for a new partner). He seemed more willing to try different positions beyond missionary/on top. It's not that I am opposed to being adventurous, but initially, I find people are trying to get use to each other.

Given his ejaculation issues, he may need a certain type of stimulation (likely another sign he is aware that the problem resides with him) --- and not knowing this could cause a little confusion for any woman-- but I certainly felt like he was putting on more of a performance, than connecting with me. And as you said, this made the sex disappointing.

Thank you again for your website, advice and affirmation. I hope you are happy in love -- you certainly deserve it with this service you are providing! :)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 10, 12:25 PM,
"Do you think this man may pop up again?'

Yep - the insecure ones generally circle around again for a repeat of the entire situation once they feel they've regained some sort of control again - and are in need of that ego boost again.

Their behavior is wishy-washy and not consistent, so you can usually expect to see them return as if nothing happened with the proverbial lame "hey" text LOL.

loretta said...

Hello and welcome to another installment of "Dating Insecure Men." I hope my story also helps someone (or at least makes them laugh.) After reading the above story about a guy talking about his prowess in the sack on the first, date, I felt it fun to share what happened on my date last night. A little background: I met him online, he lives nearby, and he really liked my profile and was very complimentary and interested right away. I messaged him a few times, he gave me his number, asked for mine, we texted a little, I told him I preferred talking on the phone, he called me regularly. Good job, I thought! This is promising. We had a nice first date for brunch, he acted fascinated with me, he wasn't too bad looking and he was funny. I thought, ok, there may be a future here. Then, he texted me something lewd that I responded with "Uhhh, awkward?" He apologized for a couple days, called me, I ignored him for a few days, finally decided to give him a second chance. I accepted a date to a fancy restaurant where we had lobster. So far, so good. Just a little peck goodnight. He was consistently in contact with me. We could not align our availability until last night.

Prior to that, we had some good conversations over the phone, and in one he told me that he had been drinking a lot since his dad died and his girlfriend and he broke up 6 months ago, but that he was aware of it and that he was cutting it out. (Loaded gun in Act 1? - a little theater joke.) He probably confessed to this for two reasons: 1) I told him my writing partner (Casual Guy) was a drunk, which is why we are not together as a couple; and 2) I'm a sober person for 21 plus years.

Last night we planned to meet a sports bar/restaurant (a nice one) near my house. I got there on time, he was not there. He called 15 min later saying he couldn't find the place. He eventually showed up 30 min late. It's not a hard place to find. I was a little annoyed. Then, he shows up acting really strange, or, as I realized, drunk. I didn't know how he acted drunk, but my vast knowledge of drunkards told me this guy was sh**faced.

He was so bizarre. He ordered ice tea and bragged on and on about what a great basketball player he was (we were watching NBA finals), how great a manager he was, how great an athlete he was, that he had the skills to write a movie and book, too, and here and there telling me how I was the most interesting person he ever met. I thought I might just get up and leave, but I was starving and I wanted to see the game. So, I stuck around, enjoyed myself despite his off the wall behavior. I finally said to him at halftime, "Are you drunk?" He said he had a few drinks before he came but that he "rode his bike 14 miles." Which I don't believe. I don't know if he brought a flask and drank in the men's room, but it was a couple hours before he seemed a little less plastered. When the game ended, I stood up, told him I had to get home.

I never plan to see him again, or even respond to him again, because I don't even think he deserves me to be polite and say, "Dude, I need another drunk in my life like a hole in my head!" Once again, I'm glad I found this out very early (date 3) before I wasted any more time on him. Next!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

If he was wasted and he really did do this "rode his bike 14 miles" - I think I probably would've paid to see it LOL ;-)

And you know what the best part is? He will probably be confused as hell about why you're not seeing him anymore. The one's that drink that severely are generally the ones that wake up the next day clueless about their behavior the night before.

I agree with your decision, this guy's sounding too much like a "project" here for a woman. He needed to get it together before he started dating.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror, I love your blog. Your advice is amazing and certainly prompts women to demand respect for ourselves.

What do you think of a man who sends you uninvited pics of his willy? I got talking to a guy online and we have chattered on and off for about 2 weeks. He is suddenly sending these photos which to me are disgusting. He says he can't wait for me to lick it!! Oh my god. Well I have stopped communicating with this guy and wonder what is wrong with these type of men. We were not even talking about sexual matters and then suddenly this god awful pic hits my in box.

Why do they think sending pics of their body parts is going to impress a woman? Do you have any ideas?

Thanks for your comments!

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 11, 10:14 PM,
"Why do they think sending pics of their body parts is going to impress a woman?"

Men who behave this way are incredibly insecure (they're seeking validation and affirmation), childish, and frankly don't know the first thing about women. Their behavior indicates that they don't view women as living human beings with feelings, they instead view them as sexual objects and play things.

Men like this are "clueless."

And as a result, I try to teach them a lesson when I can, so that they think twice before treating another woman that way in the future. So next time you're treated like this by a man, you could consider doing what I've done in the past. I had a very arrogant man who thought he was God's gift do this one time. He kept saying to me, "Do you see what I look like? Have you seen my pics?" Meaning his main profile images, which by the way were absolutely obviously fake. He lifted a male models pics off the internet no doubt LOL.

Anywho, this man sends me the proverbial "dic pic." So I decide to respond as if I'm playing along. I say something like, "Oh gee, another dic pic. I have so many dic pics on my phone that I decided to start a dic pic calendar, and I'm thinking you might make the cut for Mr. December LOL."

At first he seemed very pleased with this and responded with something childish like, "tee hee" or some crap.

To which I then hit him with, "Well. . .that was until I showed it to my date and the other men in the bar with us. And I'm sorry to say, they've disqualified you because you included nothing for scale in the image LOL."

His next response indicated pure shock LOL. It was something like, "You're on a date right now?? And you showed my dic to your date and all the men in the bar - really????"

To which I then responded, "Of course I did, what do you think women do with these pics - print them off and tape them to their bedroom walls? And I am on an online dating site, which explains why I'm actually on a date tonight LOL."

His next response again indicated pure shock, and a bit of panic this time, with something like, "I can't believe you showed my dic to other men!!!!"

To which I responded with, "Why so surprised? Isn't that what you men do with pics you receive from women like this - show them to all your friends and laugh? Hell, I may even post this one to the Internet it's so good, everyone here is diggin it. But they do suggest that in the future, you include something for scale LOL."

To which he responded with only two words, "You win." (Indicating that he'd been playing a game all along, and he was now losing at his own game.)

To which I then responded, "I always do ;-)"

I'm sure he was absolutely FUMING after that response LOL. I never heard from him ever again - and I bet he never forgot me. With any luck, he now thinks twice before behaving like that and treating women like that. Because the reality is that when you do that, you put yourself at risk big time of having that image shown to others, posted to the Net, texted to others and passed around to God knows where, etc. You might as well print it on a damn billboard LOL.

And you could tell this guy was so self-absorbed that it NEVER occurred to him that any of that might actually happen. It never occurred to him that women can pass those pics around, show friends, get a laugh, post them on the Net (anonymous porn sites), etc. You could tell he had never received a response like that before and it was like a light bulb went off in his head and once the realization that his dic pic was now in the hands of many others set in. . .pure panic and shock ensued LOL.

I wasn't on a date at the time, and I wasn't sitting in a bar full of men, and I was the only one forced to view his crooked "member" - but he didn't need to know any of that LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

I was the poster above who encountered the man who bragged about his sexual prowress. What I have come to realize is that on the surface, it appears these men are being driven/motivated by their sex drive/their greatness. But what is actually driving them is their insecurities (much like women can be driven by their insecurities to make bad behavioral choices).

Where I get frustrated is how society is accepting this behavior from "men" and how women are being told "he's just not that into you" as an excuse for poor behavior and to "just get over it".

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 12, 10:14 AM,
"Where I get frustrated is how society is accepting this behavior from "men" and how women are being told "he's just not that into you" as an excuse for poor behavior and to "just get over it"."

I understand your frustration and how it can appear that way. And some may blast me for saying this, but the reality is that as long as WOMEN accept this behavior from men (i.e. reward them for it by giving them more of their attention, pursuing them, etc.) - then the men will NEVER change.

Bottom line: Women hold the power here, but may not realize that. While it may not seem that way at times, that's the reality. Men do this - because women "respond" to it and reward them for it, even if unknowingly.

If women chose to never speak to these men again, not become insecure and pursue them, ignored them, and never provided sex to them - then these tactics wouldn't work, men would soon realize that. . .and they'd be forced to "up their game."

Painful reality I know - but just some food for thought there. Women have more power than they think, or than it may feel to them.

The other reality that's a bit painful is that when men treat women like this, the reality is that they are NOT that into them - they are into SEX, not the woman herself as a person. They're just looking for a "warm body" to help get their sexual needs satisfied. So in the end, it makes no sense for the woman to beat her head against the wall trying to garner the man's attention. Because the attention the woman is going to end up receiving is only going to be sexual attention anyway, and that of an "F buddy" in the end, which is very damaging to a woman's self-esteem.

The reality is that the only one's making excuses for the man's poor behavior a lot of the time - are the women who give these men the benefit of doubt, and MAKE excuses FOR them. . .instead of just accepting that the man is not "relationship worthy" material in the first place - and simply walking away with her head held high as she should, never giving the unworthy man a second thought.

Again, I realize that some may disagree with me, and that it may appear as if I'm "blaming women." But seriously, think about it. What would happen if WOMEN walked away from these men, instead of banging their head against the wall trying to turn a toad into Prince Charming, and/or rewarding them for their poor treatment by providing sex?

In the end, when you look at it like that, the sad reality here is that we, as women, are the one's who are actually in control of this. And we are really the only one's who can stop it (by not accepting it, not rewarding it, and not responding as they expect.)

Just some food for thought ;-)

loretta said...

Hear, hear! (Or here, here!) I toast this comment by MoA, and I have two examples of why this trend of men abandoning emotional commitment for selfish gratification. First, the proliferation of p*rn that has ruined a lot of the intimacy, expectations and realistic body ideas for men. It was already bad enough before the internet, but now the objectification of women is the norm. Second, I read an article in the NYTimes today about a s*x doll that can now talk and appear "sentient." How sad is that? A toy instead of a real woman. Something you can shelve when you don't want to play with it, and bring it out for its orifices.

Yes, I partly blame the women in the P*rn industry, because, as MoA says, if they didn't participate in it, it could not exist, except maybe with dolls. haha. I had a relationship with a guy back in the 90s who was a s*x addict, and he had so many videos and trashy books, I gave him an ultimatum after 6 months. At first, he got rid of everything, and then, slowly, started to recollect it. It's an addiction, and it's more prevalent than you think.

It's so hard to get involved and have to leave a guy you find out has addictions (p*rn, alcohol, drugs, gambling, work, etc.) and I know how that feels. I was on both sides of that fence. But to really be happy, you have to be true to yourself. You are better off alone than with an addict, or with a guy who objectifies you in any way. I have spent most of my adult life without a partner, and frankly those years were the happiest of my life!

Anonymous said...

I guess then my question is are men trying this with all women? Or just the women they "peg" as weaker (whether or not true)?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 12, 3:46 PM,
"my question is are men trying this with all women? Or just the women they "peg" as weaker (whether or not true)?"

I believe that depends on the man - because not all men are the same, and there are still good men out there, gentlemen. They are few and far between these days, but they're still out there.

But I do believe that naive women, in general, are at very high risk when dating of falling prey to all sorts of stunts, manipulation, games, painful experiences, etc. I know some folks read my site here and think, "She's bitter, she's jaded, she's always suggesting walking away, etc."

But the reality is that as a woman these days when dating, you HAVE to have your guard up - WAY up. Because if you're like a doe-eyed deer out there in the dating world, you will attract the more manipulative types your way because yes, they will see you as "weak" easy prey.

And here on the site, we very rarely discuss gentlemen and as a result, we end up discussing the "lesser" type of man who doesn't deserve the attention of all the wonderful women that comment here and contribute to this site. And when it comes to those guys, you SHOULD walk - hell, you should RUN. Or you're going to get chewed up and spit out by some jerk, and then you're going to beat yourself up for it, doubt yourself, become insecure, etc.

And for a great woman to let some unworthy, undeserving jerk of a man bring her down to that level. . .well, let's just say you'll never see me here encouraging any further efforts from women to land a man like that. Poor treatment does not deserve the reward of more of your time, attention and affections.

And men like that do not deserve to have a great woman standing by their side.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
I should also mention too, cause I see this a lot here, is that a man can appear a good guy at first. You can enjoy his company, you can have fun on dates for a while, etc. But when it comes to a relationship with that same man - things can actually be VERY different.

Men (and women too) can actually behave very differently in a romantic relationship versus the way they behave in their everyday living, waking life. Meaning, a guy can be a likeable guy to a lot of people and the feedback you hear is "he's a great guy" from a lot of those that know him. But the thing is, you cannot base YOUR opinion of him on the opinion of others that do NOT know him on a romantic level. Because having a romantic relationship is very different from having a general friendship with someone.

My ex was like this. On the surface, he was a likeable guy, sociable, friendly, funny, lots of laughs, etc. and a lot of folks were like "He's a good guy." BUT - they did not date him, they were not married to him, they were not waiting up till all hours of the night wondering where he was, who he was with, what he was doing, whether or not he was lying, catching him in lies, catching him cheating, etc. They only knew one facet to his personality and they were never exposed to the relationship facet with him, which was a very different experience.

And on this site, there are a lot of comments like this. Comments that signal the woman is confused because on the one hand, he appears a good guy and they've had some enjoyable times with him, but he's treated them very poorly otherwise. Yet - they hang onto those few good times, instead of realizing that being in a relationship or dating situation with the man is unenjoyable and actually a very different experience. Which is why you have to spend time with people, a LOT of time, to truly find these things out. Jumping into bed early on will not help you discover this, it'll actually only confuse you because the ignorant treatment you may have started to receive afterwards will be a completely different experience with the man than you may have had previously.

So when dating, it's wise to pay attention to the romantic behavior you're experiencing with the man - because if you stay with him, that's the side of him that you're ultimately going to experience the most.

Not sure what prompted me to delve into that here today, but I felt compelled to mention it so I'm throwing it out there because who knows, women reading here may be able to relate and may need to hear the message. I hope it makes sense.

Gem50 said...

@ Ms. Mirror,
Your comment makes perfect sense.

I'll add a similar, but different experience. The Sag I was with for 15 yrs, had a side that no one saw but me (and my kids a couple times): Anger.

It wasn't until the end of the relationship that a couple of my girlfriends saw one of his outbursts (in separate instances). Their reactions were similar: Silence towards him, and an amazed look towards me as if to say WTF have you been living with?

It wasn't until we finally split up that I realized how much he used my fear of his anger as a tool to manipulate me. In 15 years, it probably happened a dozen times, from minor to major scale, but I knew I better keep everything ok for him, or he could "blow."

I wish I had ended the relationship the first time it happened. I didn't. It wasn't until he let his wrath out on my adult son that I did.

And to this day, friends (besides these two gf's) believe the Sag was a wonderful, sweet, giving and good man. When we split, many people couldn't understand it, and voiced it. (It was none of their business; all I would say was, "It happens.")

So, I guess the lesson you are trying to convey to all of us is: pay attention to everything and continue to consider the behavior of the people we are involved with as we build relationships. Don't ignore signs, don't make excuses, don't settle for less, and take care of ourselves -- always.

Hugs to all.

Gem50 said...

and ladies, the fact that I finally ended it because of what happened with my son, not with what was going on with me, is a fact that has and is unnoticed.

It is why, after 7 years from that mess, I'm still single. I'm still learning how to apply the skills of taking care of myself. It's work, sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy, sometimes I'm good at it, sometimes I fail, but it's my (our) journey.

Gem50 said...

lol... edit to above "has NOT and is NOT unnoticed.."

Fire&Water said...

@Mirror Jun 13 @ 9:26 -
This is a great point and very insightful. When you first get to know someone, you see the "veneer" if you will, who they project to the world. The closer the relationship becomes, the more you see who they really are, the side they don't show to the whole world and which is more private...but which is also a true side of them. "Facets" is a perfect word. Your description fits 'A' to a tee...his clients, acquaintances, people who know him superficially will all tell you he's an amazing guy - engaging, interested, funny, someone they can talk to for hours - and everybody WANTS to talk to him for hours. If you talk to K, she'll show you a different side of him - how he tends to run late, how he's hard to pin down when she needs an answer. She'll tell you he's brilliant, but he can drive her nuts. And then, I've found him to be insecure, and disrespectful in interactions with him that were more toward the personal side, though I concur that he's charismatic and very intelligent. If you talk to people who only see the superficial facets of his character, I guarantee none of them would say he's disrespectful or un-thoughtful; they will say precisely the opposite. The fact that it takes so long to truly get to know someone and that people's characters can have so many different sides is one of the things that makes dating so dang complicated. It's like buying something based on the wrapper and then realizing that what's inside isn't what's shown on the box.
I wonder if that is truer of the lesser quality men than of gentlemen, or equally true of both? Do gentlemen tend to be truer to their "wrappings", to present themselves as who they really are/turn out to be who they present themselves as more often than the ordinary frogs?

loretta said...

I am your online dating guinea pig. I met my ex-husband online in 1999. Probably before a lot of the readers here were even dating. Lol. In spite of that disaster (he was a textbook Narcissist, and we only lasted 2 years), I have met some very nice guys over the years. I tend to meet someone I like, stick it out for awhile, and when it goes sour, take a long break - like years. Over the course of 15 years, I spent 9 of them out of circulation and had 4 relationships that lasted around a year each. In between, I had a first and only date with over 30 men, and a second or more date with fewer than 10.

Online dating changed a lot over the years. At first, it was like old-fashioned dating - you met someone you liked, you quit looking, you had a relationship, and that was it. A few years later, you were corresponding with a lot more guys, you might meet a bunch of them, find one you really liked, and were exclusive with him for awhile until it ran its course. It was still pretty old school.

From 2009-2013 it changed a lot. I had no profile for those 4 years, and when I came back, it was a whole different ballgame. The sites were crowded, there was the problem with too many choices, and now I see that even when I meet a guy I like, he disappears, or gives little attention, or seems to be always looking for greener grass. I'm not perfect, I'm not young anymore (but I still feel like 35), and I am a pretty awesome girlfriend. I have an online profile that has generated hundreds of responses. And yet, I still see men being really lazy, barely contacting me, going days without asking me out, or not making plans.

As I follow the rules of engagement from this site (which are awesome), I am getting left behind. But, you know what? I will not budge. I refuse to chase any of them, initiate contact, act needy, give them any reason to think I'll jump in the sack with them any time soon, and I am a great date. If they are not going to step up, guess what? They hear crickets.

Eventually, by the law of large numbers (haha) I will meet someone who will be a great match for me. It has been over a year, but I'm patient. I am in no hurry. If all the women did this, they would have to change their Modus Operandi. Let change begin with me.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

You're perspective is a healthy one. Because going out on say 50 first (miserable) dates in a year doesn't really get you any closer to finding Prince Charming than does going on one great date a year - with the RIGHT man.

And something to think about is, When women are out there dating right and left like it's a second job, accepting dates from everyone who asks for one and not vetting the men first, and feeling like they're making progress because they're being asked out regularly, their social life appears to be booming and they're getting texts and phone calls from various men all the time, etc. - the reality is that they may actually be hurting their chances of meeting Prince Charming.

Because after spending a year going on a slew of first dates that didn't work out with every Tom, Dick and Harry you meet and having several men disappear without warning and all that crap that lifestyle puts you through - if Mr. Right actually came along during that time, can a woman really notice him anyway?

Or would she instead be distracted by the man that disappeared without warning, that she's now suddenly hell bent on garnering the attentions of (and doesn't even know why)?

And would her self-esteem be intact enough after a year of those experiences to even navigate the experience with Mr. Right on a positive note?

Or would she be so affected by what she's been going through for the last year that she'd become insecure and project the sins of others onto him erroneously, because she's somewhat suffering post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) from being too active for too long in the dating minefields?

People would argue their are pros and cons to each. However, in my opinion, if you're seeking fun and excitement and the expansion of your social circle, and you're not generally too worried about entering a committed relationship at that moment and you just wanna' casually date around and get your feet wet and tougen up a bit - then yea, 50 first dates in 12 months is probably the way to go for an individual with those needs if they're prepared for it and know what to expect.

But if you're not seeking some general casual fun and excitement and instead, you're seeking Mr. Right and a committed relationship - I'm still of the opinion that slow and steady wins the race (and saves your dignity, your pride, your self-esteem, your confidence, etc.)

It all boils down to what folks need for themselves. To each his own, the choice is ours, the journey is ours.

You can have 12 months of quiet time with yourself, getting to know yourself, pampering yourself, and drilling down to what it is that you really need, etc. - and then going on one date with the RIGHT man, and being in a good place emotionally at the time you meet him.

OR - you can (unknowingly) put yourself through 12 months of hell every Friday night out in the dating minefields, dating random men right and left that would probably never be a match anyways, and experiencing a lot of damage to your confidence and self-esteem all in the name of "having fun" - so that by the time you do meet Mr. Right, you're exhausted, emotionally spent, tired and weary, and not your best self when he actually does come along. (This statement is in reference to those that don't view it as "school," and instead think hookups and casual affairs are the path to a meaningful relationship.)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

It all just depends on what phase of life you're in and what you need at that particular time. For some, entering the online dating world can be beneficial in that it "schools" you on the modern ways of men, women and dating nowadays and that can toughen you up. But for those that have "been there, done that" and are entering a different phase of life and seeking more "real" experiences, I still believe that following the correct path to get there is the wisest choice.

You might not be out dating every Friday night of the week, but at least you're not getting run over and left for dead and "schooled" when you least expected it either. For those that need to get their feet wet that can be beneficial to an extent if you know what to expect. But for those that have already drown and come up for air, sometimes "courting yourself" for a while can be much more beneficial.

We're all on our own journeys - choose your personal path wisely :-)

Anonymous said...


Like you, after disappointments, I tend to isolate and "take a long break". I am now realizing that isolating myself is part of a pattern: meet insecure man, become disappointed, isolate and stop dating (for me - usually for years). The problem is that this isolation sets me up for these same men again because the isolation becomes deprivation -- and then I am finally ready to dip my toes into the dating water again, I am eager to accept shallow attention from men. I trace some of this back to never learning how to handle emotional heartbreak as a teenager. I now see the solution is to cut men off at the knees when warranted and remain open to meeting men. For me, isolation can be as just as harmful as the men themselves.
This is a great challenge for me because when I have been left reeling after being stung by a man, the last thing I want to do in many ways, is meet more men.

But I am tired of giving away all my power and feeding myself this false belief that the men I date are the only ones you have options. I do too and will be exercising them!

I am not certain I blame women entirely for what we are seeing in men today. For all the stories I hear about men disappearing after sex early on, I have heard even more horrific stories about men disappearing MONTHS INTO a relationship -- a full blown relationship! For every guy I have given a chance, I have kicked two the curb -- it hasn't done anything to stop poor behavior coming my way (IMO, its rampant these days) and I am sure being kicked to the curb hasn't changed those men either. They keep it moving until they wear down a victim. For them, its that 1 in 100 that will reinforce their behavior -- the 99 who tell them to keep moving don't wear him down.

For me, it is more complex than reducing it to that women's behavior can fix everything. Sure, women's behavior is one component, but I also see a culture that promotes self-entitlement and lately has people believing that they are more special than they are -- many people have an inflated sense of self. It's also a disposable mind-set too. And I do blame men too-- I have a group of 50 year old male friends who remarked one night that this generation of men is "pathetic". They have no pride in themselves or their reputations....which is why they act as they do. There is a great book out now -- "The Road to Character" -- which talks about these shifts in our culture.

Anonymous said...

Or would she be so affected by what she's been going through for the last year that she'd become insecure and project the sins of others onto him erroneously, because she's somewhat suffering post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) from being too active for too long in the dating minefields?

This resonates for me as something I have had happened to me repeatedly. It has caused me to isolate for years. In my case, the isolation was as harmful as continued dating because while isolating I was ruminating on all the things "wrong with me."

So time alone MUST be wisely spent -- affirming oneself -- not internalizing the prior experience. The problem is I think our culture with all this "he's not that into you" nonsense causes women to internalize bad behavior.

I have lost years of my life to "quiet time" which has made me long for simple things like a nice dinner with man on a summer night. I am probably different than most women because I have spent the vast amount of my adult life alone.

For me, "getting out" there at this stage in my journey is as simple as getting myself out of my apartment and in the vicinity where I have the possibility of even meeting men.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Fire and Water,
"I wonder if that is truer of the lesser quality men than of gentlemen, or equally true of both? Do gentlemen tend to be truer to their "wrappings", to present themselves as who they really are/turn out to be who they present themselves as more often than the ordinary frogs?"

Well the individual themselves matter, however, I do think that "lesser" quality men "pretend" a lot more (because of their insecurities), so I do think there are probably much higher instances occurring with them than with gentlemen. But that doesn't mean that the occasional gentlemen isn't inclined to do some "embellishing" of his own as well from time to time.

Which is why it pays to observe actions over words, truly spend time getting to know someone, and taking it slow, vetting and filtering men as you go along, and pulling things back when you see red flags starting to pop up everywhere (so you don't go in "guns blazing" and get blindsided).

Gem50 said...

@ Ms. Mirror, Loretta and Anonymous 12:16,
Some great, thoughtful conversation in past few posts. Timely for me as well because about a month ago, I decided to go online again. I couldn't muster past my fear of including my pic, and I'm sure because of that, there was little to no interest.

Early this a.m. I changed my name, included a pic, blocked all of the guys that had viewed me previously, deleted the old and started writing a new profile.

I have not been part of the dating world for quite a while now, I have been doing what Ms. Mirror has touched on: "courting myself." I think part of that "courting" is also the work we put in to find ourselves (again). I think when we do, we find our power again, are stronger within, and better able to perform the vetting Ms. Mirror explains. But to Anonymous' comment, it sometimes leads to "isolation," and is where I was finding myself too much of the time, which led me to the realization that it is not what I want.

Like Ms. Mirror, I do believe there are good men out there; it's up to us to do the work to pass/say no to the bad ones.

It will be interesting to see what happens now that my pic is included. I kept the information short; not giving away too much information. Like Loretta and Anonymous, I've tried this before, yet I've maybe been more drastic in my retreat, but I don't see another way of letting a good guy know I'm here. My goal is to cut out the bs'ers real quick, and stay open for something and someone good. My work will impact the experience and result: either run over or a life of continued growth and joy.

So, thanks for the sharing ladies. Your comments have been good for me.

loretta said...

Well, the last thing I wanted was to be a serial first/only dater. Believe me. I vetted like crazy, and there were very few bad dates, but I could tell right away that it was not a good match for me. I can afford to be picky now. I have no need for a meal ticket, or someone to raise my children, or to support me in any way. I just want to enjoy their company. But, they have to "get" me. And I'm kind of a freak of nature, in that I am a genuinely happy person with a lot of insight.

The reason I dated Casual Guy for a year (and we are still seeing each other as only friends to finish this damn movie) was because in spite of his defects, he understood me better than anyone I ever met. Now, he is not a candidate for partnership beyond our project, because he is a drunk, but that relationship taught me a lot about how happy I can be just being - you know, just being myself, doing what I like, giving what I want, and not worrying about what he gives back. Eventually, I realized I needed someone who could really dig me more than he did, or at least be able to demonstrate it. Now, it's all about action.

I spent far too many years out of circulation, but those years were very productive: I wrote two books, had a play produced off-Broadway, got a great job that helped pull me out of debt, raised my youngest children, and live a wonderful life now without any stress or drama. Having a guy in my life during that time would have been a big distraction. I simply didn't have time for it. Now, I have more time and am ready emotionally to be a good partner to someone.

This website has really been a great help to me in the last 6 months. It helped me to give Casual Guy the boot (romantically), it helped me ignore the DM that was negligent. It helped me see right away what I wanted to put up with and what I wouldn't. It helped ferret out a whole slew of bad candidates.

I now have had three really great men start talking to me and asking me out. And even if none of them wind up being a love interest, I know I'll enjoy them and they will teach me something.

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

I just wanted to give some feedback on someone I have been seeing recently. We have had 4 dates so far and have been talking over the phone maybe once a week.

He is a senior legal professional in his mid 40’s. Not been married nor had a serious relationship from what I can gather. We get on well and I enjoy the way I am able to talk to him. He has instigated all the dates. Our first date ended up being 5 hours long. Although the second date he asked me to chose and book the place which I was not happy about and he sensed it. A big flag in my book!

He paid for dinner and drinks on the first and he was happy for me to pay half on the second date. He did pay for dinner and drinks on the 3rd date. I was conscious of the fact that he never booked anywhere; we kind of played it by ear and always ended up in a place that needed no reservation. He basically put no thought into any of it.

However, the real issue I wanted to address is below.

He talked about his line of work and the fact that he had to smooze people in order to get business. In fact sleeping with female counterparts was part of the territory.

He also talked about how in his early 30’s there would be a stream of females sleeping over [More for his housemate than for himself, however non the less he also was in the same boat]. Going out to law parties and ‘Pulling’ was pretty much what they did. Although I never asked, I sensed that he did not have to do much to get someone into bed.

He also talked about how peers in his industry had mistresses.

So here am I. I have not instigated one date/call. Not been flirty nor have we even kissed after the 4th date. [Not that I am willing to]. I have behaved like a lady. I bought him a small gift back from my holidays and I am always warm and friendly.

On the 4th date I mentioned to him that I was nervous about meeting him this time around. He asked why and I said, last time he seemed distant. [I didn’t tell him this but he couldn’t look me in the eye when he talked to me on the last date]

He said something was amiss, something wasn’t right in his world and he wasn’t sure what it was but that he was feeling jittery. It was maybe the fact that he hadn’t had a big case in a while.

I am merely a bystander in all this. I am enjoying observing. I have too much knowledge now and can see the red flags.

So Ms Mirror what I wanted to ask was whether you think it is possible that people can go through their entire lives with such low references on relationships and believe this to be the norm?

Because their only frames of reference are maybe senior people in their industry whom have got mistresses, or their friends who are having one night stands and the fact that the only reason he has got ladies to sleep with him is because of his profession that they have absolutely no concept on how to view and treat a real women?

Or do all men instinctively know how to treat women but because they are insecure/lazy/entitled they cop out on this?

He even told me he has no one in his life to tell him what to do. He has no father figure and is an only child.

I have to say I appreciate his openness and candidness and he is a great listener and is actually very sweet and we do so get on. He does not appear to be the stereotypical lethario you would think…..but I am fully aware of his actions, which speak volumes.

Curiosity led me to the 4th date to see if he might raise the bar and if he might book a place. But no, everything was off the cuff again. We just had drinks. I made an effort and put a nice dress on, but I did not feel special.

I have told him I am looking for something serious. I have a sense he may like me. I truly doubt he has the capacity to change and I am not prepared to accept anything less.

Best Wishes
Lottie x

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"He talked about his line of work and the fact that he had to smooze people in order to get business. In fact sleeping with female counterparts was part of the territory."

That is a bunch of BS and I don't know of any company, business or corporation that would legitimately suggest or require that in order to earn business. As a matter of fact, it's EXTREMELY unethical and could actually potentially land in a legal snafu or a conflict of interest of some sort.

It sounds like some sort of excuse. Like, instead of working hard to build and nurture client relationships legitimately by investing the time and work necessary to do so - it's simply easier for him to sleep with these women in order to accomplish that. . .and it ends up a win-win for him, too, cause he's getting sexed up in the process of earning a living at the same time.

"He is a senior legal professional in his mid 40’s."

I'm sorry, but he must be out of his damn mind. A man with a legal background behaving like this - and he isn't concerned about being slapped with a lawsuit or landing in a conflict of interest???

Unbelievable. That's like saying it's acceptable for psychologists to sleep with their vulnerable patients. It's all HIGHLY UNETHICAL.

"I didn’t tell him this but he couldn’t look me in the eye when he talked to me on the last date"

It's all that guilt from his bad behavior eating him up.

"maybe the fact that he hadn’t had a big case in a while."

Or maybe the fact that he created some sort of complication or conflict of interest for himself by behaving the way he does - some day, someone may expose him, ruin his career, ruin his reputation, and destroy him. And that's a lot for one person to bear on a daily basis, so I'm sure he suffers moments of "near misses" with regards to that regularly.

"I wanted to ask was whether you think it is possible that people can go through their entire lives with such low references on relationships and believe this to be the norm?"

Yea - it's possible. If you have no one in your life to "check you" on your own behavior and call you out on it and talk sense to you, and instead, you're surrounded by a bunch of goons behaving just as you are, encouraging it, and placing a high value on that lifestyle. . .then yea, you may never realize that others would find your lifestyle horrifying.

"Because their only frames of reference are maybe senior people in their industry whom have got mistresses, or their friends who are having one night stands and the fact that the only reason he has got ladies to sleep with him is because of his profession that they have absolutely no concept on how to view and treat a real women?"

Exactly. There's no one to "check him" on his own behavior and instead, he's surrounded by people that are encouraging it by example.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"Or do all men instinctively know how to treat women but because they are insecure/lazy/entitled they cop out on this?"

I personally feel people know the difference between right and wrong. But I think what happens is that if they're not self-aware, aware of how their behavior affects others and they don't stick around to see the damage they've done, and they're surrounded by folks encouraging it instead. . .then they squash their conscious down into the ground and instead - drink the Kool-Aid and follow the leader right over the edge of the cliff like a bunch of blind sheep.

"He even told me he has no one in his life to tell him what to do. He has no father figure and is an only child."

BINGO. He has no point of reference for what a real man should be, he has no one to call him out on his own behavior, and he's surrounded by corporate goons behaving just as badly, drunk on power.

"I have to say I appreciate his openness and candidness and he is a great listener and is actually very sweet and we do so get on. He does not appear to be the stereotypical lethario you would think"

And that's a shame because I bet somewhere, deep down inside, this lifestyle isn't making him happy and he probably does question it from time to time. As a matter of fact, I'm sure he does. He's clearly given this all some thought because he even reached the same conclusion I have about his situation and he gave himself away about it when he said "he has no one in his life to tell him what to do. He has no father figure."

That's basically like saying, "I have no one to show me another way of life or encourage me to do right instead of wrong." And he KNOWS this.

And you know what - I bet he self-sabotages relationships ON PURPOSE because he KNOWS he's living a less than honorable lifestyle, he's not cut out for commitment, and he'd probably fail at a real honest to goodness relationship because of it.

Which is why I think he coughed up all his "dirt" to you by the 4th date. He probably doesn't realize this, but I think he's self-sabotaging there, and in a way, "warning" women off as a self-preservation method (to keep him from failing, because he's so used to being successful.)

"I truly doubt he has the capacity to change"

He'd have to experience a "crisis of conscious" in order for that to happen. Nothing's impossible and it can happen - but it would take years of hard work, lots of self-reflection. . .and probably even a new profession, or at least leaving the firm he's with and instead jumping on board with one that operates ethically.

It would require great change in many facets of his life.

loretta said...

@MoA Quote: "And you know what - I bet he self-sabotages relationships ON PURPOSE because he KNOWS he's living a less than honorable lifestyle, he's not cut out for commitment, and he'd probably fail at a real honest to goodness relationship because of it."

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner! That is *exactly* what Casual Guy is doing. Since I was in a rare bad mood yesterday (although it improved significantly when I had a first date with a new suitor whom I find quite nice and a potential relationship), when Casual Guy cancelled our writing meeting for the third time in a row, due to allegedly having too much work to do (and I think it was because he wanted to watch the NBA championship series which is now over, thank goodness), I was quite curt and peeved with him. I told him I was losing interest in doing all the rewrites and revisions if he was not able to commit to a day to work. He seemed apologetic, and swore he was not putting it off on purpose, but I was not having any of it. I told him to pick a day that he could commit, otherwise don't waste my time. I find his last-minute cancellations to be annoying and I'm not going to be all Miss Nicey-Nice about it anymore.

He doesn't respond to Nicey-Nice. He doesn't benefit from my enabling him. He will now see the silence of my actions toward him. If I'm a beeyoch to him, it may not endear me to him, but I might get some results. Stay tuned.

Lottie said...

Ms Mirror,

Thank you so much. Your feedback has been exacting as usual.
I whole heartedly agree with what you have written.

I do believe that he has a conscience but HE chose not to follow his and follow those 'Goons' instead. Unfortunately when you chose such a lifestyle you have to live with the consequences too.

He has made some changes to his life recently and in the last year he changed jobs to a more 'stable and certainly more ethical environment.'

He has also hired a personal trainer. When I asked how long he would be training for he told me 4 years. I said that was rather a long time. He said it was required and was on par for all the years he abused his body through drinking [smoozing]

He seems to be making headway with making changes to his external life. However, as you quite rightly say
it will take years to change the internal. I do not think he has tackled that area yet. Yes, a crisis of some sort will certainly be the catalyst.

I always feel sad when I see men like him. I always see the goodness in people and I saw the potential for him to be a really great guy. It's such a shame that they chose to ignore their conscious and lead such a cavalier lifestyle instead. Do they not realise that eventually it catches up with them?

He certainly is self sabotaging his relationships. He needn't have told me those things and could have had his wicked way, .....once upon a time I would have let him.

He did tell me those things and it was a warning about his character. I'm glad I paid attention.

I'm ok. I came out of it unscathed. I am proud of the way that I am able to handle myself now. I once would have ignored all the red flags - now I sit up and pay attention.

Many thanks again Ms Mirror. Always a pleasure writing to you.

Best Wishes

Lottie x

Gem50 said...

@ Lottie, I wonder, and it was just a feeling I got, if something similar to what Ms. Mirror mentioned he was risking (a lawsuit, conflict of interest) IS currently happening.

He couldn't look you in the eye (guilt) , said he had things going on (drama), mentioned this crazy crap about sleeping with female clients (why would a man say that to a woman he is newly dating), Sr guys having mistresses (an excuse for his behavior), no one to lead him (and now those guys won't help him out of it)....

I wonder if it is all connected, and he is in the middle of a mess. I just wonder.

Anonymous said...

Hi, Mirror.

It`s been 3 months since I cut this guy off. Back then I had asked for your advice and followed it :-).
We had been together for several months, then he broke up with me, I had chased him etc. Before cutting him off I sent him a very short message saying that I was sorry that we didn`t manage to work things out and asked him if he thought that we could try to fix things between us, with patience. He didn`t reply.

Walking away was the best thing to do. I mean this guy had been so coward, so confused and so arrogant. Walking away was indeed the only thing I could do to level the playing field, as you say. For me things are black or white and there was no reason for me to stay. I tried to save at least or friendship, he just couldn`t care less.

You are right, silence is golden. It helped me detach, it changed my perspective etc. But....I cannot forget him and I wish I could. I am not stalking his FB profile, I deleted everything concerning him, still he`s in my mind. When he broke up he did it over the phone (I called him because he had disappeared) and basically I didn`t have the opportunity to express myself. I wonder if that`s the reason I`m blocked.

I do have a life of my own, friends, projects, hobbies, holidays, I`m optimistic, but I just wish I could forget him! I even went out with another man.
What is your advice? Thank you so much…

Lottie said...

That's interesting both yourself and Ms Mirror say that Gem.

My gut feeling was I didn't feel that there were any issues with work. Everything seemed ok there. He wasn't sleeping with female clients, he said he used to have to smooze other legal people in order to get business. That is not the case anymore.

But something is amiss. He has never made a reservation at any place. I put it down to laziness/being self entitled. We have been on 4 dates. He has not once made a romantic gesture. I'm not expecting much, but I have not even had a compliment off him and I can scrub up quite nicely.

It's almost as if he is frozen. We talk and he is civil...but after 4 dates...surely there would be some progression?
Why keep asking to meet up?

I have not even had a proper peck on the cheek. He is the one wanting to see me. I have not instigated a date at all. I wonder if it is multiple women on the go? I certainly do not think he is married.

Yes there is guilt. The noticeable lack of eye contact on the 3rd date was very evident.

I initialy wondered if it was because I was playing it cool and hanging back that he was too?

Yes - spilling the beans on all the poor behaviour - I thought it just smacked of ego. He mentioned some of these people having a 'god like complex'. He didn't associate himself as one though.

Hmm....Intriguing. I feel like I am trying to solve a puzzle here now. ;)

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"It's almost as if he is frozen. We talk and he is civil...but after 4 dates...surely there would be some progression? Why keep asking to meet up? I have not even had a proper peck on the cheek. He is the one wanting to see me. I have not instigated a date at all. I wonder if it is multiple women on the go? I certainly do not think he is married."

I have nothing other than my gut to base this on, but -- I just had something a bit strange pop into my head. "Safety" came to mind - as if he's proceeding with caution and hesitation. Like as if he's playing it "safe." And you're sensing something is "off" as well.

I dunno, but I get the feeling this guy has something pretty "big" going on right now, and in a sense, I get the feeling that quite possibly. . .he feels somewhat "safe" with you. Because if you tie what Gem's sensing in with what I sensed, and this is all linked to "something" (there's a pink elephant in the room), then him unloading and dumping all his dirt on you by the 4th date kinda' begins to make sense.

Why would a guy do that?

Well, he would only do that if he felt "safe" for some reason. (OR if he's attempting to trigger insecurities within you, but quite honestly, I'm sensing HE is the one who may be insecure here, not you.) And the reason he's not making any moves could be because he's got a bit of safety here and he doesn't wanna' screw it up.

I'm not getting this out clearly I don't think, but. . .here's a guy that's behaving pretty badly in a high power career situation. He's walking a thin line. He's participating in unethical behavior. He's taking risks. He's feeling the pressure. It's on his mind. He's used to being around deceitful people. He's used to not trusting others. He's used to being secretive.

And then he meets you.

He's dumping all his sins into a virtual strangers lap. He's treading lightly. He's not making any moves. He's "confessing" a lot. He's "sharing" a bit of what's going on in his head. He's making a lot of surprising admissions.

And you're not over-reacting - you're not reacting at all.

And he ends up on his best behavior with you. And he continues to see you, walking a fine line and making sure to remain on his best behavior with you.

I hate to say this, cause I think this guy's a tool LOL. . .but I think he respects you. And I think he values his time spent with you in a sense. And I think it's because he might feel "safe" with you. And I think that because of all those things, it's possible that's why he's on his best behavior with you and that's why he's taking you to dinners and treating you like a lady (when he treats most other women like sexual play things).

It's quite possible that in some weird way -- this man has found "acceptance" with you.

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

And it would also explain why the last time you saw him, he showed signs of guilt. He may have gone home and thought to himself, "Why the hell did I tell her all that horrible stuff about myself? And why the hell does she still want to see me? I feel kinda' stupid and embarrassed for doing that."

So on the next date - he was sheepish with you.

Cause it's also possible that the entire time he's having this "abnormal" experience with you (abnormal for him, not you), that at the same time, he's still behaving badly with others. . .and he's noticed the VAST difference in the two (you versus other possible women in his life that may be causing lots of drama/grief/ruinous situations for him right now).

I get the feeling this man is "teetering" right now on something big. Either a ruinous situation in his career, or potentially in his personal life (with these women he's been involved with), or possibly nearing a "crisis" point in his life, finding himself very conflicted right now.

I know you sensed "spilling the beans on all the poor behaviour - I thought it just smacked of ego" and I agree with you there.

But something tells me this man is actually quite insecure and quite conflicted. Maybe you're that rare bit of "sanctuary" that shows up once in a while in life? You know. . .the "calm in the eye of the storm" type thing?

And I'll warn you - if any of this rings any bells with you, be careful with that.

Very NEEDY, conflicted people tend to latch onto others like vampires and suck their light away. They're like a big black vortex that absorbs the light of others. And if something "big" is going on in his life right now - you could be the beacon of light in his life at the moment.

Again, this is all pure speculation on my part. But I will say this. It's not going unnoticed with me right now that he is treating YOU very differently than I suspect he treats other women. Sure, he probably wines and dines them into bed - but he probably does that with speed I suspect. Yet with you, he's not attempting that. And there's a reason for that, and it's not cause he's not into you. If he wasn't, he wouldn't be dating you. It's something else. It's something deeper. This man is troubled.

And I suspect you might possibly be his "safe" zone right now in a sea of turmoil. But I'd tread lightly with this one, as you wisely are. There's an aweful lot going on here I suspect.

loretta said...

@Lottie - unless you want to be his learning curve, I'd find someone ready for love. This guy ain't!A

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 18, 10:38 AM,
"I just wish I could forget him! I even went out with another man. What is your advice?"

There is no magic pill that can make it all go away. You have to fall back and rely on your personal coping skills/ That's all any of us have to rely on when these things happen. You have to accept the feelings, work through them and experience them as best you can, grieve the situation, and in time the feelings pass and dissipate and before you know it, you've overcome the situation.

There's no easy way out - acceptance is unfortunately the only way any of us can successfully navigate through these situations when they happen.

loretta said...

@Anonymous Jun 18, 10:38 AM - I used to long after men (and some old high school girl friends) who rejected me. It was sort of pathological. One day, I realized why I did it. It was a break through, although it didn't "cure" me. At least I was aware of what I was doing. I discussed this with a dear friend of mine, an older woman who is the most nurturing, spiritual soul I know, and she suggested I perform a little ritual.

So I invented something called "Rock Therapy." I went down to the beach with a sharpie marker, picked out some rocks, wrote down the name of the person who rejected me (including my father, ex hubs, ex bfs, the girls who were mean to me in HS), and threw each rock in the water as hard as I could - saying, "I forgive you for not loving me. I'm over you. Goodbye!"

It was great. I highly recommend it.

Lottie said...

Hi Ms Mirror,

I have to say alarm bells rang on the second date with me. We exchanged lengthy emails before hand and got on really well over the phone and our first date was very lengthy indeed. We had a great time talking. So yes, I did hope that things might progress. But certainly by the 3rd date I realised that there were too many red flags to ignore and I knew he was an unstable type and so switched off. I was/am genuinely curious with his behavior and that is the reason for writing.

Ms Mirror you are right in what you say. I do feel like he is looking to confess something. Something is sitting uneasy with him. I haven't heard from him in a week since our last date. I think he knew that I sensed something wasn't right. I think everyone's past catches up with them at some stage and they realise in order to move forward they have to face their past. Not easy to do when you have lead such a checkered one. I know he has a conscience…..he just buried it deep below and hit the 'override key'

I have to say I am not sure if I will hear from him again. I think he knows he will have to explain himself if there is a next time. I don't think he is prepared to face himself just yet.

I do not react Ms Mirror, you are correct. When I meet people like him, I have come to realise that taking the moral high ground and criticising their behavior will have little or no effect. I expect that they have heard it time and time again with every woman they have treated disrespectfully. The toughest person to face is yourself.

I am indifferent with him. I am glad in my dates with him that I have managed to 'unsettle' him though. I think my work may have been done with him :)

Best Wishes
Lottie x

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror. This is Anonymous of May 13, 2015 at 12:39 AM (with clever and crafty "ex").

I have some updates. Well, crafty ex kept up with his texts and we met after I returned from my trip (after he himself had returned some days prior). I kept to all the usual rules, 3 days advance notice, not changing plans for him, and so on. I could see that the NC really bothered him. At one point, he said he didn't know if, after I left, he would ever see me again. And when I got up to go to the bathroom, he called out "don't forget to come back!"

Later that evening, he muttered that he could not meet me "on my terms". He had earlier said one night that he "wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, but ...". I never took him up on any of these conversational lines. Later that week, he started laying out plans for what he intended to do the next year, which involved me, and I remained non-committal. Then, he went away on a trip again. And I myself have been very busy, so our communications got sparse/intermittent. At one point, fed up that he had "disappeared" for 3 days over the weekend, I ignored his next text. To which he texted (after a day and a half - so I didn't make it to 3 days) "I texted but no reply. Now I text to say I miss you. Hopefully maybe one, only one, reply!" Still no reply, so the next morning, he called. Anyway, we made various arrangements upon his return, one of which was to play our favourite sport. That was yesterday.

Three days ago, we met for drinks then dinner. I was taken aback to see that he had bought for himself an item which he said he wanted to get for us, together, part of the reason being that he wanted to give me something for my birthday. This item was not available in December last year, and only recently became available. He must have felt guilty - or realised that it would raise difficult questions - because when he thought I wasn't looking, he put it away.

I am very far from what people what call a "gold digger". We are both established in our respective fields and careers, I make my own living, own my own home and car, and so on. And he knows this. He has always been wary about so-called "gold diggers", being a wealthy man. I told him I'm not waiting with one hand out waiting to receive something and the other down his pockets looking to see what I could get out of him, and he said he understood that. And he apologised and said events got the better of us, he had bought the item at the airport, and so on. And continued muttering to himself about how he would have to get certain things done this week (he's travelling next week). All very cryptic, all making no sense to me at all.

I'm really hurting. I can't describe it. It is as though this is the proverbial last straw of all the things he said he'd do, and never did - and there is a list of these things (not that I'm keeping score). It's as if our relationship, and I, are not even worth the effort and amount of money and courtesy he would gladly expend on others, including business associates; and the respect and decency to say what he means and mean what he says. When words and actions do not line up, that's the sign of an inauthentic human being, of manipulation and deceit, as you have repeatedly pointed out. And I STILL don't understand why hurting and emotionally weakening someone is the way to "win" them over, in this way of thinking. Unfortunately, I still had to participate in our sporting activity after that conversation, and at dinner where others were present. But now, I'm done. I really am done. I have nothing left to extend, or give. I told him I might never see him again, and whatever happens, I am grateful for all the help extended in various areas (work, etc.). Thoughts?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jun 24, 4:31 AM,
"I could see that the NC really bothered him. At one point, he said he didn't know if, after I left, he would ever see me again. And when I got up to go to the bathroom, he called out "don't forget to come back!"

Well. . .LOL ;-)

Good - apparently NC caused him to do some thinking and reflecting, which is what he needed to do.

"I STILL don't understand why hurting and emotionally weakening someone is the way to "win" them over"

It's not the way to "win them over" - it's the way to WIN - period.

I think what you're missing here is that this man is obviously a bit immature, emotionally and otherwise, and he's clearly used to being able to manipulate his way in and out of situations (using charm I assume). And that leads to arrogance, competitiveness and self-defeating behavior. . .all of which he's exhibiting.

Does he realize he's being manipulative and competitive? No, probably not. Does he realize that he's doing these things to get a "reaction" out of you to steal your power so he has more of it in the relationship? No, probably not. Does he realize that he needs to feel as if he's "won" because he's in a power struggle with you? No, probably not. Does winning make him feel better about himself, even though it self-sabotages his relationship? Yea, probably.

You see - he's "feeding the ego" right now, instead of feeding the heart.

And his behavior is signaling that he's feeling insecure and resorting to childish manipulation in order to feel better about himself by triggering an emotional reaction in you:

"he muttered that he could not meet me "on my terms" (a veiled insult and power play)

"earlier said one night that he "wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, but ..." (he left that open-ended with a "but" on purpose)

"he started laying out plans for what he intended to do the next year, which involved me, and I remained non-committal" (he was secretly "testing" to see if he was back in your good graces - and your future)

"he had "disappeared" for 3 days" (power play)

"he had bought for himself an item which he said he wanted to get for us, together" (subconsciouly to trigger a reaction)

"continued muttering to himself about how he would have to get certain things done this week. . .All very cryptic, all making no sense to me at all." (again, left open-ended and purposefully confusing so you'd ask)

Cont. . .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

Do you see what he's doing there? These are all comments meant to "trigger" an emotional response from you. He's an insecure guy, who's feeling even more insecure right now, and the end result is a lot of strange, self-defeating behavior with him permitting his ego to step in and take control of the situation because he himself is not equipped emotionally to do so.

He's "reacting" all over the place truthfully - much of which is meant to trigger an emotional response from you, to make himself feel better about himself right now, and to gain some power back. . .because you've leveled the playing field and he knows it. He's resorting to his old tricks, but they're no longer working for him.

"But now, I'm done. I really am done. I have nothing left to extend, or give."

I don't blame you - because someone pushing your buttons all the time gets old real quick. It's exhausting, taxing, pointless and in the end, proves nothing other than the fact that the individual doing the pushing clearly has a lot of their own issues that are causing them to behave that way.

This is not the way to a woman's heart. These antics do not make people want to spend time with you. People like to be around people who make them feel good. They do not want to be around people who push their emotional buttons constantly, act out constantly, toy with them constantly, and take actions that actually make the other individual question themselves, their worth, their value - and their importance.

No one wants to spend time around someone who creates all those negative feelings. He's got some work to do on himself, and if you're seeing no progress, you'd be wise to leave him be to do that by himself.

Anonymous said...

Thank you, Mirror. Always comforting to hear your perspective.

He used to be MUCH sweeter in the earlier days. Perhaps that was because HE was in control. But, ever since he returned after we broke up last year, things have been different, primarily because (I think) I am now different. I have done the work, changed internally and externally, and am still doing the work. He appears not to have. During the 1st, long NC period (of about 4 months; although he reappeared after 60 days) after the break up, I had wondered to myself whether he could secretly be insecure, and I now have my answer. It just never seemed to me a possibility, given his age (he is somewhat older than I am), and we are both not of the millennial generation. Given his age, as well, it never occurred to me that he could be emotionally immature, as many insecure individuals tend to be.

You are correct that he is and can be extremely charming, and that has taken him very far. In one of your early comments (under the NC article/posts), you stated your gut feel that he is a guy that is used to having the upper hand with women. That is correct, largely gained through charm and manipulation, I now see. It is now clear to me that, having lost control and the upper hand, everything he has done since his "return" has been to get a rise out of me. For that matter, his purchasing that item (after he said he'd take care of it, make the arrangements, I was not to "do" anything) and wearing it that evening, was to get a reaction from me.

Are these individuals even conscious of the choices that they make? I think every man (and for that matter, woman) knows the difference between right and wrong, and well know when they have done something wrong. I wonder whether he does.

Am I wrong to feel the way I do? Am I over-reacting? I don't think so but I do question myself. I think you are right though - I should completely disappear, and perhaps then in the course of reflecting and thinking, he may discover a few things about himself.

Anonymous said...

So I ended it with crafty ex, or thought I did.

But in typical fashion, he popped up again 4 days ago with a breezy text: "Hi [my name]! Going off tomorrow and on to [Country B]. Keep in touch. Cheers!" And again today: "Hi [my name]! How are you? As usual, I don't expect a reply. Just to assure you I am around. Cheers!"

I think he's become accustomed to NC, and is expecting a reply after a sufficiently long period (after I have "cooled off" or forgotten everything) and sufficient "taps" (from him). But I am done.

loretta said...

I have two new insecure men in my dating pool. One key characteristic of an insecure man (especially a middle-aged one) is if he is constantly bragging about himself. He's good at this, he's smarter than everyone, he's exceptional, he has high standards, etc. It's so transparent and so boring.

One guy I've had a couple of dates with never stops talking about himself or his accomplishments (whether real or fiction I don't know). Last night I went to dinner with him and I don't think we shared a single topic of conversation that didn't eventually revolve around his amazing abilities. I was bored to tears. Good thing the meal was nice, and I was doing research at this venue for my movie.

The second recent insecure guy is on a dating site and said he didn't think (by reading my profile, which is intended to be humorous and fun) that my knowledge of "European history, art and culture" was not up to par for him. And that he would be bored with me.

I thought that was hilarious. I wrote back saying, "You should see my library! Good luck!" That piqued his interest, because he could tell I was brushing him off. Then he wrote back and asked me a series of questions that resembled a midterm exam in European History. I gave him one word answers. What a riot! He will not find a date on that site. He's just there to put down women. What a d-bag. How insecure can you get?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"He will not find a date on that site. He's just there to put down women."

I imagine this guy's been rejected a lot over his arrogant behavior and "punishing" women and putting them in their place makes him feel better about himself.

Reminds me of this one kooky fool who - seriously - I think wanted to fight me. And I mean a real fist to cuffs fight in a ring LOL. I actually said to him, "Dude - you sound like you wanna' kick my ass or something, should we jump into the ring?"

At that time, I was experimenting with different profiles to see which got the biggest reaction from men. And as it turned out, the snarkier I got in my profile, the more views and engagement that followed LOL. So I had a pretty snarky profile, but it wasn't ignorant, it was just some sarcastic humor I had taken on after being there a while. At that point, I no longer really cared what these guys thought of me, so I let it fly and to my surprise, they were not swayed by it, but rather, they were drawn to it.

So this one guy shows up, in every pic in his profile he's in these dark mafioso sun glasses, and he's trying to sell this whole "lifestyle" persona. He writes me this email and in it, he's telling me that someone needs to spank me, I've been a bad girl, blah blah blah. He's very confrontational and not in a sexual way. This guy seriously thought I needed my ass kicked LOL.

He ended the email with a challenge of sorts along the lines of "I dare you to meet up with me. You'd be put in your place real quick and you'd learn that you're not as tough as you think you are."

I think he was expecting me to fold instantly and respond with something like "Oh I was only joking, sorry if I offended you" yada yada. Instead, I responded and told him that his email was fantastic, it was probably the most humorous email I've received yet to date and that I was printing it off to show to my girlfriends because him actually wanting to meet up for a fist to cuffs rumble in the streets was going to give us all a good laugh.

And then I blocked him.

But seriously. . .this guy wanted to meet up like children in a school yard for a fight LOL.

And Mr. Professor here that's sending you European History exams reminds me of him for some reason. He wanted to be able to draw a big "F-" on your term paper. He's looking for women to fight, he's not looking for a date. He's got not cooth, no style, and he's just waiting for the opportunity to swat women away from him like I imagine a ton of women have actually done to him.

It's not necessary to tell someone they'd bore you. There are a lot of diplomatic ways to get that type of message across without being rude and brash about it. He's doing stuff like that purposefully to provoke a strong emotional reaction from the woman by hurting her and then sitting back and watching the catastrophe that takes place afterwards.

And my guess is that some woman actually said those same exact words to HIM - "you bore me" - after she got her first exam from him LOL ;-)

loretta said...

I didn't hear back from him after I sent one word responses to his midterm exam. I'm sure he didn't approve of my answers. I'm so depressed. (haha!)

You are right, as usual, MoA. These guys that troll the online dating sites are just getting their jollies by tormenting women. It's like teasing an animal. But, some of us bite back.

Anonymous said...

This article could not be more true to form. I dated a guy for 2 years and am still nursing a broken heart 5 months later. Educated man who did not make a lot of $, unable to sustain himself but I fell hard. It was hot & heavy from day one, shortly in I helped him out financially thinking it was only for a month. I got paid back 1.5 years later. He even moved in with me, then out, came back, went to work one day & never saw him again. All the while telling me how much he loved me, I was his best friend and would be lost without me.
His own mother one day told me to never lend him $, no freeloading, he's selfish & I would always be the responsible one at 42. Well did I start to sweat but then my heart took back over & bam the pieces are still on the floor. I have a great job, own my second condo etc. He manages to drink & I mean drink, party with the boys, been living with a friend for 9 months now & recently ran into him and he told me he's on another friends floor. Now I had given him some tough love before he left because I could no longer listen to the complaints when u spend $ u don't have on booze & UFC fights...yes he was a huge mma junkie! He seems to run around with people half his age and some of the people he finds attractive look like trashy floozies. I'm as polished & classy as it gets so I bang my head daily thinking how could he not want me and choose this mediocre life instead?! It's like my intellectual self gets that I'm above this but my heart still doesn't see the bullet everyone says I dodged! When I ran into him recently, he was so impolite I didn't even dignify it with a response. Then called me 3 times to tell me how much anger & hatred he had for my tough love approach when we broke up. I told him back then he acted like a 24 year old, wanted no responsibility or accountability for anything as would rather live like a drunk & loser than have a life with me. Mean but I was honest. Then told me looked beautiful as ever and can't believe I'm not married..then back to wants to breathe exist and not have to answer any questions or justify anything. That's not real life!

loretta said...

@anonymous 10:29 (above) - I'm sure MoA will have a comment, but I just wanted to commiserate with your story - had a LDR with a man I met online to whom I loaned a lot of money (and I got it back a little faster than you did, but that's because I was always reminding him nicely), who was miserable in his job and with his financial situation. He was so insecure, he procrastinated making any real changes to improve his situation. Long story short, he made all sorts of promises he didn't keep. Some guys are just happier being miserable. He was also a control freak. That didn't bother me as much as it bothered him, because I'm just naturally resistant to people controlling me, so his need for control didn't affect me (I ignored it). But my ignoring it bothered him a lot! LOL

Meanwhile, the guy who got drunk before our date to watch the basketball game resurfaced. He told me he was in out-patient treatment for his drinking problem, but was averse to admitting he even had a problem at all. I pointed out that was kind of a waste of time. Turns out he did it to get ahead of being fired from his job, and he works for the government, which has Employee assistance programs he can get into to protect himself.

So, I told him we could not "date" or have a relationship at all because he's in early sobriety. He thinks he's the exception (and doesn't think he's a drunk anyway), and I said, "Nooooo. Noooo. Nooo." He wouldn't take No for an answer, so I told him I was meeting other men and dating. He thought that was very tactless of me (this is a guy I had 4 dinner dates with), and I pointed out that was reality. A few hours later after I ignored his texts, he texted me to never contact him again. Hilarious. What a little child he is.

I have realized something very late in my career: if you don't sleep with a guy, his chances of hurting you are extremely slim. All the guys I've met the past year with whom I've had a date or two, had no power to hurt me at all. The only guy that caused me any grief was the one I slept with. Ta Da!

Don't sleep with them. Ever. Or not until you are damn sure they are all in. And, believe me, you can always tell.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@The Ladies,
I cannot stress enough how so very TRUE Loretta's statement here is (which is also the reason I'm constantly advocating not jumping into bed right away with men you don't know that haven't proved themselves worthy yet):

". . .if you don't sleep with a guy, his chances of hurting you are extremely slim. All the guys I've met the past year with whom I've had a date or two, had no power to hurt me at all. The only guy that caused me any grief was the one I slept with. Ta Da! Don't sleep with them. Ever. Or not until you are damn sure they are all in. And, believe me, you can always tell."


Think about it - think about the men you've slept with on say the first, second, third or even 4th dates. Now think about how each of those experiences turned out. And now think about this. . .what if you had NOT slept with them? What if you had waited longer, would you still have gotten hurt? Or would you have instead sensed they weren't legitimately interested in you as a person and saved yourself lots of pain?

Chances are, had you waited at least 30 days, you would not have been hurt or used.

It's a fact that women become emotionally invested once they've become physical with a man. So why start investing emotionally into men (having sex) who are complete strangers that have yet to prove themselves legitimately interested?

Chances are had you waited a few weeks more, the guys actions (or lack thereof) would've clued you into the fact that he didn't intend to stick around or that he wasn't taking dating seriously (and was only seeking some casual encounters instead).

Protect yourself ladies - because if you don't look out for yourself, no one else is going to. You're all you've got.

Anonymous said...

Hello Wise Mirror,

This guy I have been dating always says"heh baby" and suddenly appearing in text or email with a lot of sexual talk, like he wants my sexy body. What bugs me too is that he does not want to know anything about me beyond the superficial. I have tried really hard to get to know him as a person by asking questions but he is very vague and non committal in answers. Very frustrating and it feels like pulling teeth.

I also brought up to him very nicely that I do not like the use of the word "baby" about 3 times now. He said he would "try" to remember but he still continues to say it. So I got more assertive and asked why he keeps using that flaky word when I asked him to stop. All he said was how disrespectful I am and that in his world it is a form of affection. He really didn't care how I felt and from then on continued to use the word. He also says honey, babe, sweetie on a regular basis. We are not in a committed relationship and just dating at this point.

Is this a sign of respect on his part to continue using that kind of language? I was trying to understand his point of view but I really hate that flaky word, it sounds cheap. Why wouldn't he consider my feelings about that word? Am I being rude and disrespectful to him like he says?

Do you have an opinion? Not sure how to handle it from here. Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Wow so true...we are all we've got. I also think a mother rarely talks about her son no less...usually no woman is good enough for them but perhaps she was warning me?! I just wish I could get my heart to see I dodged a bullet!

Lottie said...

'Don't sleep with them. Ever. Or not until you are damn sure they are all in. And, believe me, you can always tell' - Here Here. Solid words Loretta.

Ms Mirror - I hope your site reaches all corners of the earth and every female comes into contact with it.

Lottie x

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 13, 1:30 PM,
"This guy I have been dating always says"heh baby" and suddenly appearing in text or email with a lot of sexual talk, like he wants my sexy body. What bugs me too is that he does not want to know anything about me beyond the superficial."

BIG RED FLAG that this man is seeking a casual sexual encounter and "hookups" and NOT a real committed, long-lasting relationship.

"I also brought up to him very nicely that I do not like the use of the word "baby" about 3 times now. . . he said was how disrespectful I am and that in his world it is a form of affection."

In his world? LOL - his world is that of pick up artists (PUAs), and men that sweet talk women with a bunch of flowery words to get them into bed. His world is one of shallow interactions and brief flings and hookups. And in his world, the word "affection" has no real emotion or feelings attached to it. In his world, it's a word that's thrown around loosely to fool women into thinking he really does care so that they'll sleep with him.

He's looking for a "F buddy" - not a girlfriend. And if he truly cared for you, he would respect your wishes instead of becoming defensive.

"Is this a sign of respect on his part to continue using that kind of language?"

Nope. It's a sign of him attempting to charm his way into your bedroom with a bunch of flowery talk.

"Why wouldn't he consider my feelings about that word?"

Because - he doesn't truly care dear :-( He uses these words to butter women up into thinking that he cares so that they'll sleep with him. . .and I can guarantee you that this man is a "disappearing man" shortly after doing so. He's probably one of these guys that has a rotation of women that he circles around to periodically, sweet talking his way back in each time, only to disappear for weeks, months later until it's their turn in his "rotation" once again.

"Am I being rude and disrespectful to him like he says?"

No - actually he's being rude and disrespectful to YOU by treating you like a sexual object instead of a real human being by "suddenly appearing in text or email with a lot of sexual talk. . .he does not want to know anything about me beyond the superficial. . .he is very vague and non committal."

BIG RED FLAGS of a man seeking sexual encounters only - if I were you, I'd RUN. Or this man's going to attempt to use you sexually, and my guess is that if he does succeed in that, he'll disappear shortly afterwards for weeks or months.

If you don't want to be used and you don't want to get hurt - kick this one to the curb.

Anonymous said...

So true about them insecured stupid men! I met one of them he lets u think the problem is u not him!

Anonymous said...

I really like your advice. recently i started dating a young, charming and successful lawyer, we are both at 26. He is a true gentleman or at least acts like so. Every time we go out dating, he always picks me up and drops me home, not to mention he never let me split the check or anything.Last week, I had sex with him and he did text me the next day. But no contact at all for this week. I didn't contact him either. Personally, i know a guy like him would have a lot of options and it is a challenge for me to date someone like him. But i really like him. I like the challenge! I have a lot of options as well, but none of them spark my interest like him. Maybe i feel a little insecure now? What is your suggestion? Thank you!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with clever and crafty ex.

So, crafty ex has been texting, and in these texts he's held a conversation with himself. For instance, "Hi [my name]! How r u? If no reply, means ok! Cheers!" To which he received no reply. Then, right on schedule, he appeared again on the 30th day of NC with another text: "Heeeeelloooow! How r u?" To which, again, no reply. Anyway, I stopped counting the days of NC after that.

I've been learning to take care of myself, to put myself and my heart first. It's taken me a long time (almost a year since we broke up last year) to realise that I hadn't been doing that, and needed to do that - and am still learning to practise that every day. And, since I started putting that into practice, things in other areas - work, friends, family - have improved. I even went on a date with new guy recently. So, thank you Mirror for this site and your words.

I've been thinking on something lately. This appears to be a recurring theme in movies even (think As Good As It Gets with Helen Hunt and Jack Nicholson). Women who learn to, and do, put themselves first, who don't "need" men, seem to draw men to them. It seems to be something incredibly alluring and sexy to men. I can think of several reasons for this; wonder if you have any thoughts. Thanks again.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 28, 11:52 AM,
"Women who learn to, and do, put themselves first, who don't "need" men, seem to draw men to them. It seems to be something incredibly alluring and sexy to men. I can think of several reasons for this; wonder if you have any thoughts."

It's actually very simple - confidence is attractive. Period, case closed.

And this goes for male and female. When you couple that with the male love of sports and competition, bottom line is - they love a good chase. When they have to work to earn something, it's a more satisfying accomplishment.

So the chase and the winning over the woman actually make men feel very good about themselves - and the confidence the woman has about herself makes him feel like he's got a "real catch" - a superior woman that is a reflection of him and his values ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror.

Began dating a guy LD about 9 months ago. At the outset he said he was "attached" but the relationship was going downhill and there was no sex anymore. In his words "the relationship was unsalvageable." I knew it was risky from the beginning getting involved with someone already taken but the chemistry was so amazing. I thought he was my soulmate, really, but that he had to end it with her first. To my chagrin, I was prepared to wait.

So 9 months has passed and he still says he is involved with this person. However, I found out that he is actually divorced and living alone with no actual GF anywhere. I have never been invited to his home due to "discretion" being important. He came to see me a few times but only on his way out of the city after visiting family. No special trip just for me. Have never met his family or friends and he hasn't met mine.

Believed it is going no where so I ended it with no contact at all. It has been 6 weeks and no word from him either, like he just doesn't care anyway.

Mirror, why would a guy lie that he is "attached" when he is not? Saying how "discretion" is important and never seeing where he lives? It doesn't make any sense? Would he possibly lie about this relationship just to keep the distance between us and never move anything forward? In other words, a commitment phobe issue?

Feel like I was strung along and used for sexual purposes only. What a waste of my life! The fact he doesn't he bother to pop in and see how I am as a person is pathetic too. No phone call or text - nothing. Feel like I was just a piece of meat to him.


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Jul 29, 2:03 PM.
"why would a guy lie that he is "attached" when he is not?"

To keep it all about sex without offering a commitment in return :-(

"Would he possibly lie about this relationship just to keep the distance between us and never move anything forward?"

Unfortunately, yes.

When a situation starts out as a hookup of sorts, and is more or less about sex - nine times out of ten, it ends up a brief fling or a short affair. The path to a relationship is a slow one, feelings need time to grow and the relationship needs time to grow. So anything that's moving at lightening speed, skipping right over the "get to know you" stage and the formal dating stage and moving right to the bedroom, has a very high likelihood of never moving to any stage beyond that.

If this guy ever does contact you again, and he very well may in another month or two, if I were you I would NEVER respond or speak to him ever again. He's clearly manipulated the situation to his advantage and in doing so, shows that he never had any intentions beyond physical ones to begin with.

And I'm sorry to say this but "Saying how "discretion" is important and never seeing where he lives?" That part there. . .that could be because you're not the only woman he's been doing this with. For all you know, this could be the reason he's experienced a divorce in the first place - his cheating ways.

And on that note, never get involved with a man who cheats - ever. Because if a man will cheat WITH you. . .he will definitely cheat ON you.

Cheats and liars, male or female, are not to be trusted. Their behavior is already showing that they're comfortable liars, their conscious does not bother them, they're selfish and not considerate of others or their own family, and they're weak. . .because instead of doing the RIGHT thing and releasing their spouse and themselves from an unhappy situation. . .they're faking it so that they can have their cake (security) and eat it too (cheat). It takes strength to do the right thing. But it's very easy to do the wrong one (weakness).

Those who cheat and lie comfortably are proving to you through their actions that they're not to be trusted, they're selfish and they're weak. And if they're willing to risk hurting or losing their loved ones in doing so, then they'll surely do the same to anyone else that happens to end up in their future if need be.

Anonymous said...

Wow. After reading this, it's no wonder there has never been a greater % of the male population opting to not get married. We can't win. We're either too sensitive, too insecure or just complete assholes. Men are finally realizing, we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. May you find peace in yourselves ladies, because lonely but without drama for us, is preferable.

Anonymous said...

Mirror, I hope you can help me here. I met a man I really like. I guess I am insecure because I didn't "get" that maybe he liked me too. He asked me for a sofa date after a couple of dates and I said no. The fact that he asked so early made me feel that he was only interested in sex. He continues to ask me to come over but I suggest other things and he takes my suggestion or comes up with one of his own is usually what happens.
I have been to his house after a nice date though and things did not get too far.
We sext, but I have to say he has been a gentleman when we are together.
I post on this thread because he can be a real A hole. The last time we went out, he was to me and everyone around me. It was so bad I considered calling it a night after dinner. We talked and he was surprised I thought he was being rude. I went to his house for a couple of hours. It seems he thought I would stay over as I had before (no sex)
After this date he was upset with me because he said I made him feel bad that I left to go out with my friends rather than staying.
We talked and I was very direct. I told him I wanted to continue seeing him, that I did like him and want him sexually but we have no commitment so sex wasn't something I was in a hurry to do. I told him if he didn't want to continue seeing me, there was nothing I could do about it and we could be friends only if that was what he wanted. He said he didn't say we couldn't keep seeing each other but he didn't know what he wanted. He has also stated more than once he is ok waiting for sex. I believe he is sincere.
He did not want to see me that morning as I suggested meeting up during the conversation. Instead he said to text him when I wanted to do something. I do not usually text men, he has complained about this before (he's been a good communicator from the beginning) and he did state we'd probably be texting like normal soon.
I am looking for your opinion, please on what I should do with this sort of a man. We are getting to know each other and I would love for that to continue. I am willing to accept he may have a tendency of being an A hole here and there if it turns out he is a man who does have sincere interest in me and is a faithful man. He has already shown me he has some good qualities.
Please share with me your thoughts on the best approach to take with a man like this? And of course weather or not you think he will be texting me like normal.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 16, 11:36 AM,
"looking for your opinion, please on what I should do with this sort of a man. We are getting to know each other and I would love for that to continue."

All you can do is continue spending time with him if you choose to do so, and then observing his behavior and words, and taking note of whether or not they align, he's consistent, follows through, makes you feel good, makes you feel good about yourself, makes you happy, etc.

If after spending time with him things don't start adding up, he's inconsistent, has no follow through and only makes you feel anxious, worried and unhappy, etc. - then you'll know what to do. But you really can't make that decision unless you spend some more time with him first to get to know him better.

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror. This is Anonymous with the clever and crafty ex.

So, crafty ex has been texting. He's stopped holding conversations with himself, and has been asking to meet ("Hi [my name]. Free for drinks?" and so on). I have not responded to any of these invitations, as I have not received an apology - and honestly, even if I did, I'm not sure I would go. I think I've come a long way, but surprisingly, it still hurts.

Anyway, he's now become angry, it seems ("You don't want to talk to me? My phone signals failed?). I really don't understand it - the gall of this man, to think that he has the right to be mad!

Anonymous said...

Hello Mirror,

Trying to make sense out of a relationship with LD guy. It was odd all around. For the first 3 months he called regularly and came to visit once every 3 mos.

Well after 3 mos he stopped phoning to chat. This happened when I started bringing up issues that bothered me. He sometimes got defensive and things never changed for those issues. Then 2 mos later I asked why he stopped phoning. Got very lame BS excuse that there wasn’t an opportune time. But it should be a New Years resolution for both of us to suggest talking again. This was a very non-committal and he never asked to talk to me on the phone after that. Neither did I, was waiting for him to take initiative.If he really cared he should have suggested we talk on the weekend.

Then asked where the relationship was between is in his opinion. He said we are at the “lust” stage and have genuine feelings for each other. He then waited another 9 months to come and visit me. He got a hotel and simply called me at 11:00 PM to come over. We had earlier arranged to have dinner, go to movie. He sat in his hotel room waiting for me to contact him. Here I was at home wondering where HE was. Got to his hotel, we had sex and spent the night. Said our goodbyes and never heard from him for rest of night or the next day at all. Had to go chasing him down by text.

Mirror, do you think I made a mistake being so strident about how I felt about his behaviors earlier on? And did that probably cause him to back away, or was there really no relationship to begin with. I feel he wasn’t being honest with me and after that the communication started getting inconsistent. Saw then after our last encounter, he was putting up sex ads on CL in his hometown, looking for FWB. I am wondering now if that is all he wanted from me but failed to make that transparent at the onset.

Really want to learn from this experience! Your opinion, help!


The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"after 3 mos he stopped phoning to chat. This happened when I started bringing up issues that bothered me."

In the future, don't use WORDS to express yourself, deliver messages through ACTION instead. Action is the language of men, they understand it fully and there's no need to vocalize if you take action.

And by that I mean, instead of telling him that something is bothering you - say nothing and do something instead. If he says he'll call and he doesn't and you don't hear from him for 4 days, don't complain about it, instead do something - like mirroring his actions and not responding back to him for 4 days.

If you do that, he KNOWS exactly what that means. He knows that he didn't call when he said he would and that as a result, if he's not going to make you a priority, then you're not going to make him one either. No words are necessary to deliver that message.

If he says he'll call one evening and instead he texts and doesn't call - you don't respond to the text. You don't complain about it or ever bring it up, but you don't respond to it either. This sends the message that if he wants to have a conversation with you, he needs to phone you as he'd promised.

But you can only expect this regular type of communication if he's asked you for a commitment and expressed a desire to date you exclusively. If there is not commitment in place, then you can't expect committed communication. Does that make sense?

If it's not a committed relationship and it's only casual dating, then casual communication (irregular, sporadic) is to be expected. However, if he's asked you for a commitment, then you can expect him to commit to regular calls and communications. You have to manage your expectations and keep them in line with the reality of the situation. You can't project your wishes and desires and obligations and commitments onto someone who's never agreed to those things in the first place.

And if it's not a committed situation and is still only casual, but after several months you want more and you notice he's not taking action to move the relationship forward - you can't "talk" to him about what you want and then expect him to deliver. You can't control others, you can only control your reaction to them. So when something like that happens, instead you have to ask yourself some hard questions like "Can this man really make me happy? Does he even appear to want to make me happy? Is he capable of fulfilling my emotional needs? Does he seem willing to fulfill my emotional needs?"

If based on your observations over the last few months the answers to those questions above are "no" - then talking to him will never change the fact that it appears this isn't a match and he's just not the RIGHT man for you, ya' know?

"did that probably cause him to back away, or was there really no relationship to begin with"

If he did not ask you for a commitment, then there was no committed relationship in place :-(

"Saw then after our last encounter, he was putting up sex ads on CL in his hometown, looking for FWB."

RUN - don't walk - AWAY FROM THIS MAN!!!

Anonymous said...

Thank you Mirror for the above advice. Well taken and understood.

My only other concern (which i forgot to mention above) is that he regularly said he loved me, even after the complaints I brought up. He even sent flowers and Valentines card. This is why I thought it was growing into more than "casual". A guy should not say he loves someone and not expect her to think there is something more developing.

At any rate, in your honest opinion, was he just manipulating or playing me? That is the only other explanation that comes to mind.

Thank you. Cathy.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

"in your honest opinion, was he just manipulating or playing me?"

I don't trust this man - anyone who is seeking strings-free, casual, anonymous sexual encounters on Craigslist is NOT a man you want to be dating - at all.

And given that, I imagine he's used to telling women whatever he thinks they need to hear in order to have his way. He's simply not to be trusted given his behavior online and his inconsistent actions.

Besides, don't risk your health over this man dear. Seriously. He's not worth it. And you don't know where he's been, what he's been doing, who he's been doing it with, or whatever else he may be up to. Chances are he's not always practicing safe sex and exposing yourself to the multitudes of individuals he's meeting online through physical activity with him simply is NOT worth it, ya' know?

That right there takes him out of the running as dating or relationship material I'm afraid :-(

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror ! I really love your website .It's very useful.But i still have a problem.
I need your advice.I had 4 formal dates with a guy but every time he invited me he is just using text...always texting.How do i get him to call me for an invitation? It seems that he is so shy to call.I had told him once to call me but he didn't .Do i appear demanding if i asked him to call me for sometime or just wait until we have a committed relationship?I think i made a mistake of accepting his text invite before.Also every time i tried to say to guys to give me a call when they start to invite me via texting for a first date it seems that they get scared and still continue texting.What should i do? Thanks for the advice mirror .

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 29, 4:16 PM,
"I had 4 formal dates with a guy but every time he invited me he is just using text...always texting. How do i get him to call me for an invitation?"

The next time you receive a text invitation, "Sure, sounds great - call me tonight and we can flesh out the details."

And that night, if he texts and doesn't call - respond with, "Gimmie' a call and we'll discuss." And if he again sends another text instead of calling, you repeat yourself with "Gimmie' a call and we'll discuss."

Basically, you refuse to discuss the who, what, when, where details via text and instead, you ask for a call to do so. If he doesn't get his answers via text, he'll be forced to call to work out the details.

"Also every time i tried to say to guys to give me a call when they start to invite me via texting for a first date it seems that they get scared and still continue texting. What should i do?"

You don't accommodate them. You don't give them the answers they're looking for via text and instead, you keep repeating, "Sure, sounds good, gimmie' a call and we'll discuss." And if they keep texting, you keep repeating LOL.

You don't give them what they want - unless they respect your wishes ;-)

Anonymous said...

long and short is that I met this particular man last November around the holidays he was m.i.a all I got was a text on New Years and I knew what time it was surely there after I gave another gentleman that chance talk with him for a few weeks during that time that I was dealing with this new gentleman first week of January the guy I met in November pop back up refusing to leave the front of my house calling me repeatedly to keep in mind he's 40 years old I am quite a few years younger than that plain as I could not believe the audacity of him to disappear and then really expect me to condone his nonsense he called me pretty much daily thereafter and it wasn't deli it was every few days he did that for 5 months literally so I had really gotten over the whole situation I was over it sincerely and then at a moment of weakness allowedv him back in in April.and of course after talking and him saying that things would change nothing changed while his behavior sort of changed he spent .so wasn't long after that I came across a picture of him and another female on social media not on his page but something that she tagged him in I could not believe it it was just a kick in the face like y put 5 months back in to me knowing how hard I fell for him in the beginning just to s*** on me not only that I look this weekend and I see that this pink bedroom that's he's taking pictures in and posting them on his page so I put two and two together this is a woman that he spending time with sometimes on the weekends where I get the text that he'll see me on Sunday or Monday and then we'll spend nights during the week my question is why what he come back persuming 4-5 months if he had this other woman who he was already dating and continues to date?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Aug 30, 3:04 PM,
"why would he come back 4-5 months if he had this other woman who he was already dating and continues to date?"

No one knows for sure but him unfortunately. But he's clearly keeping sexual "options" open for himself for whatever reason.

Anonymous said...

Very confused about guy I am seeing for last 3 mos. Honestly I don't know whether I am coming or going. He tells so many stories it is not funny. Here are just a couple of them.

Told me he was getting a divorce when I first met him. He said he was the one who filed for divorce and that agreement was reached, papers on a judge's desk to sign. I was very attracted to him so I thought we could take it slow. Obviously going through a divorce means he is not going to be serious about anyone for awhile. I was well aware of this. However, two months later he tells me he was actually living common law with a woman and not actually married. What gives? He also lied to me about his age from the beginning. Found out he is in his 60's and not 55.

Mirror, what do I do about a guy who lies so much about things? Why can't he just tell the truth, especially about his age and marital situation? He even looks 10 years younger than he really is. I am so confused that I don't know what to think.

Also he rarely calls me on the phone, preferring to do sexting. Asked him why not and he just gave me a BS answer. Help!! Thank you for your advice.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 2, 2:35 PM,
"what do I do about a guy who lies so much about things?"

Dump them.

Do not make excuses for them or issue them the benefit of doubt. If you do that, you become the perfect "victim" for those who are out to manipulate and use others.

"Why can't he just tell the truth, especially about his age and marital situation?"

Because he's insecure about his age, and he knows if he tells the truth about his marital situation. . .he can't have his way with others.

"he rarely calls me on the phone, preferring to do sexting."

BIG red flag that this man is seeking to use others, and viewing women as "objects" of sexual satisfaction.

RUN - and don't look back.

Anonymous said...

HI Mirror ! Thank you so much for your advice.You are the best ! :-) Your posts really help me a lot.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mirror. This is Anonymous with clever/crafty ex.

So, crafty ex has been texting, and I think he has tried calling (from an unlisted/private number). He texts weekly, or every three/four days. Last week, I was travelling, and he texted a breezy comment about a common interest, followed by "Talk to me." Then, three days later, he tried calling (I did not pick up). This was followed by a text the next morning: "[My name], may I call now?"

As I've said so many times, this site has been an enormous support and source of comfort. But, it's still tough. And it's evident from my own feelings that I am not over this man. I am practising letting go; and hopefully it will get better.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mirror,

So 2 months ago I finally decided to try online dating but only stayed for one week.
In that one week, I had over 10 dates, but I only really liked 1 guy, and it so happen that I was the one that contacted him. We had a great first date night, and after two weeks or so we went on our second date and he told me he's actually divorced. Our second date was also great and went on for hours and hours but it ended up on a low note when my car was clamped because we parked it on a private area in the city. It was his idea to park there and he wanted to pay the 150$ fine.

he was also a bit drunk that night because we had been drinking (he had been drinking more) and when I dropped him to his car, he wanted to like stay in my car and started like sleeping, he wanted to go home with him but I didn't, and i told him that it's a bit silly that he's sleeping in my car when his car is just across mine. So he left my car and i saw him putting his carseat back and sleeping. I went home, still worried, because i know someone that died from carbon monoxide poisoning, so tried to call him, he didnt answer. When i got home i sent him a message, telling him am a bit worried. he message me later in the morning saying that he hope i had fun and that I arrived home safely, and told me that he slept in his car until 6am, drunk water and went home. Leading to our second date, i had been the one initiating the text messages. so a few days later our date, i asked him about his weekend, and he replied, and we exchanged a few sms. I still feel bad that he paid so much for our 2nd date and thought i'd do something nice, and iso I asked him if he'd like to have dinner with me on friday. I sent that text on wednesday. When he didn't reply. I sent him this text message.

"Hi _____, I can sense you're not interested, but I also thought you're not interested, but I also thought you're a decent enough guy and would let me know, I would have been totally fine with it. I feel disappointed, it's a shitty thing to do to someone. Anyway, no hard feelings. Good luck!"

he responded to my text straight away.

"Shit I missed your text. And feelings can be hard- that's fine. I'll be away this weekend. Sorry for being a fuckhead"

Now for me, he just agreed that he was not interested at all, but after talking to my dad, he apologised and is sure he'll contact me again and we even made a bet. He texted that 13 days ago. And my dad lost the bet, but somehow, i'm still hoping he'll contact me. I really liked him, but I know that he's not interested. Ugh.
Should I still make contact?

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 16, 12:55 PM,
"Should I still make contact?"

It's not wise for a woman to take the masculine role (leader, initiator), thereby placing the man into the feminine role (submissive). This is a role that's unnatural for many men and when a woman gives chase and begins pursuit. . .it can feel like "pressure" to the man, which will often cause them to distance themselves and withdraw.

Men love a challenge. They love the thrill of the chase - so it's wise to let THEM chase YOU. The chase is the fun part for them, and when a woman takes the lead, there is no chase for the man to participate in (i.e. the "fun" is removed). Besides - the only way a woman can know if a man is genuinely interested or not. . .is to see if HE pursues HER.

You've already made contact several times, and regretfully that's not working out. So instead of doing more of the same, yet expecting different results. . .it's much better to do nothing, put him to the test, and see if he circles back around ;-)

Anonymous said...

Broke up with LD BF 3 months ago. I did so because of all his inconsistent behavior, just sexting and rarely him ever visiting. When we did most of our time was having sex. He never initiated one text after the breakup but I did after one month. He replied being responsive & happy to hear from me. I stop texting for 2 more months, nothing again from him.

Go online to a site that gives advice on how to get ex GF back. To my shock I see a comment posted by him and asking for the guy's help. He was apparently applying the NC rule to get me back. But said it wasn’t working, asking if she (me) still might care about him and asking what else he can do.

Mirror, after reading that I contacted him. We have be in contact regularly via text. He does initiate a text here and there now. Really I am tired of all these games. Waiting for me to text after several months seems lazy and immature. I am not impressed.

Do you think he really did care about me based on what he wrote on that website? He used to say he loves me all the time before we broke up. Am so confused because he was and still is placing ads online seeking FWB with women in his own city. He is also still telling women he is married or attached (but he’s actually divorced). What do you think he really wants from me? Possibly for us to go back to the same sexting thing, or a real relationship?

Think I should be dumping him for good but would like your take on it. Thank you!!

Anonymous said...

thanks mirror, as always, great advise. I was pursuing him from the get go. so it was pro doomed from the start.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Wed, Sep 16, 6:18 PM,
"Do you think he really did care about me based on what he wrote on that website?"

That is unclear. Because the reality is that what he really cares about - could just be hanging onto his sexual option or arrangement. Meaning, he may care more about just losing the sexual situation, which you are a direct part of. So he's resorting to manipulation to get that back.

"He used to say he loves me all the time before we broke up. Am so confused because he was and still is placing ads online seeking FWB with women in his own city."

WORDS are worthless. ACTIONS tell the true tale. And when a man's words and actions do NOT align, it's a big red flag. Saying one thing, and then behaving in a way that goes completely against that is a red flag. If this man was truly in love dear. . .he would not be seeking other sexual situations. If he truly wanted a committed relationship, he would not be seeking friends with benefits situations for himself.

His words are lies - his actions are telling the truth :-(

"He is also still telling women he is married or attached (but he’s actually divorced)."

He's doing that so that he has an excuse to not commit to them or enter into a relationship with them.

"What do you think he really wants from me? Possibly for us to go back to the same sexting thing"

I think so. I think he wants the situation back, based on his actions here. He's seeking FWB situations, not relationships :-(

"Think I should be dumping him for good"

I'm thinking the same exact thing. And when you do so, I imagine that you might be surprised that - it actually feels great LOL ;-)

Anonymous said...

Hello mirror. Need advice. Met guy online. We live in different states.

Mainly texting for over a year. He came 3 times to visit. Some phone calls at the beginning but then he stopped those. Never met his family or spent holidays together.

Recently he referred to me as his gf. Has said he loves me many times but gives me crumbs if his real time. Also found out he is talking to other women online in a sexual manner.

Mirror this guy must have some screws loose to call me his gf. We are online texting friends. It is not real. He hides behind his electronics.

Guy is in my opinion living in a fantasy world. Why do you think he would refer to me as a gf? He left 8 months in between visits and hasn't called for months!

Can you help me understand this? Do you think perhaps he is married or otherwise attached? He doesn't talk about anyone in his life and is a bit of a mystery.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 19, 6:54 PM,
"Why do you think he would refer to me as a gf?"

Because he probably thinks that's what you want to hear. And if he's rotating many women as sexual options, he doesn't want to lose any of those options so he most likely resorts to telling them what he thinks they want to hear so that he can continue to string them along by having them believe it's more than it really is :-(

"Do you think perhaps he is married or otherwise attached?"

That's a very real possibility.

"He doesn't talk about anyone in his life and is a bit of a mystery."

That's a big red flag and most times, this indicates that the individual keeps things under wraps because they've got a lot to hide - and they don't want to talk about it or even tell many lies about it because they know that if they do, eventually they'll "trip up" and say something that contradicts with what they've previously said. . .and they'll give themselves away (as a liar).

Anonymous said...

Hello wise Mirror. Just started dating a guy. He informed me he is looking for FWB but that it could turn into something more. I am not sure whether to pursue it based on this rather non-committal statement. Tried to probe deeper but he just says the same thing. I have told him I only want long term commitment and nothing less.

How do I know he just wants FWB, use me for sex and then disappear? Or that it isn't just a lot of bull on his part? He appears to be dangling a carrot on the end of a stick here. How do I know if that carrot is really within reach?

Should I only start dating a guy who says he wants committed at the outset? I know a lot of guys will tell you what you want to hear so they get their way with a woman. I don't want to be one of these statistics. Help! Thank you.

The Mirror of Aphrodite said...

@Anonymous Sep 24, 9:32 PM,
"Just started dating a guy. He informed me he is looking for FWB but that it could turn into something more."

Translation: "What I really WANT is sex - and MAYBE a relationship will come of it."

But nine times out of ten, that doesn't happen when things begin as a hookup. Hookups tend to be short lived flings and brief 3 month affairs. And they usually end once someone starts catching feelings (i.e. the woman).

And I agree with you that the "maybe" here is dangling a carrot. It's meant to string the woman along - long enough to have a brief hookup. And then as I've stated above, nine times out of ten, once feelings enter the mix and there's a request for "more" - that's pretty much the end of it.

And it's not because the woman isn't good enough, it's because the man didn't want a relationship or commitment in the first place. So when men tell you this right up front. . .it's truly best to believe them. When they say they don't want a commitment, it's the truth.

If a relationship is truly what you want, I would suggest that you not risk getting distracted from your goal and possibly wrapped up emotionally in a complicated, tricky situation. It's best to stick to your goals, and let him stick to his.

It's not necessary to settle for a hookup in an attempt to gain a relationship.

pisces girl said...

Hi Mirror! Pisces girl here! hope all is well with you-you do such an amazing job on this site and I am always so thankful for stumbling across it. You are an amazing woman Mirror and I always remember the great words of wisdom and advice you have imparted on me and the other ladies here and speaking for myself it has helped me with my confidence and dating life immensely. So thank you! <3
I do have a question for you..me and girlfriends are noticing a trend of 30-something year old men with roomates..usually they live together in a house but me and my girlfriend were talking about it the other day and she was like what is with that its like they are grown babies that cant take care of themselves and I have to agree with her! i worked my ass off to finally buy my own place it took years but I did it before 30 and its so nice to have something to call my own now so I think its strange that a 30 something year old man is still living with roomies- it seems so juvenile ..am I overthinking this or...I mean its just awkward when you go to his place and his roommate is always there and sometimes there is more than 1 -its like there's no real privacy and what happened to being a self sufficient man and acquiring things for yourself. I get some guys are trying to save money or whatever but by 30 something I think a man should be somewhat established with his own place it doesn't have to be a mansion but something that he can at least call his own. And what about a 30 something who still rents but doesn't own a place?
Your thoughts Mirror? would you ever accept this situation??
thanks <3 <3

Anonymous said...

Hello Wise Mirror,

Very confused about LD relationship situation. I had initially met him on CL. At the beginning he was looking to “text or email”. He was also separated from wife. He wife apparently charged up huge debts and the house went into foreclosure. He later on told me he filed for divorce. Some months later he said divorce finalized, papers on judge’s desk to sign.

We texted regularly but he stopped calling to hear my voice after 6 months. Asked him why. He said there was not an “opportune” time. Texting pattern was fairly consistently two days” on” and then two days “off”. He only came to visit me twice in one year. He never talked at all about family or friends. Is this normal? Wouldn’t a guy mention his family/friend names once in a while?

He kept saying “I love you”, that we would be together one day. I believed this. Was getting a bit suspicious of his disappearing acts and no explanations. The relationship was not moving forward after a year.

Anyway, I wanted to see if he was talking with other women online so I posted some “fake” ads in his town, just looking for sex. Low and behold he answered ALL 6 of them. Said he was married and only looking for FWB, he could not host at his place and we had to be “discreet”. I was horrified to learn this.

Mirror, what do you think happened here? I feel completely devastated and hurt. I have confronted him about these fake ads I posted and all he said was “the divorce is not yet final, lawyers fighting back and forth”. I can't sleep or eat anymore, I am so upset!

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